[Patch Notes] Champion Point cap will be set at 501

ADarklore

Jura23 wrote: »

Not ever dude. Once they hit 3600, they stop running away with those points and other ppl can start catching up.

And those who hit that limit are those who spend their entire lives on ESO, while normal, casual players would never reach that limit in 20 years of playing at a regular pace. There has to be a meaningful means of of reaching the top in a reasonable amount of time if they expect to keep new players. I know in DCUO, playing the game strictly solo, I reached the highest level in a few months of playing- which I found to be reasonable. There is no such reasonable method to reach those at 3600 CP and that is the problem and the reason many new ESO players are disgruntled and leaving the game.

Matem

Is it just me or does every person commenting that new players will quit the game after they see people with many cp completely ignore the catch up system...?

Sureshawt

Etaniel wrote: »

Thank you, that is exactly my point for CP : you don't want to put the work in, you shouldn't be playing an MMO !

You want to work then get a job. If you are not having fun in a competitive immersive environment then you shouldn't be playing an MMO GAME!

Mystikkal

There seems to be a big disconnect here. People who support the level cap are claiming that it is needed as the current system has too large of a power gap. The folks against the level cap, actually generally agree that the power difference is too much (SO STOP SAYING THAT OMG CP MAKES PEOPLE SO OP, WE NEED A CAP). People who disagree with the cap just believe that the cap is not the correct solution to solve the problem. You don't need to always think linearly.. CP too powerful, put CP cap. If you adjust the CP system, so that the overall power is decreased, the diminishing returns are increased and you implement a catch-up mechanism, you have effectively satisfied both parties. The power gap has been significantly closed and those that worked and spent $$ for CP didn't do it for nothing.

You realize the above solution actually solves the power gap better than the cap? With the CAP, new players are going to go into pvp with like 50 CP and get stomped by 500 CP players. If you make the system less powerful, the new players actually stand a better chance. At some point, you also need to give all players x XP towards CP (which will give all new players a baseline number of CP and higher CP players some additional CP, but not nearly as much).

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

if the cap is only effecting 96 players and there are 500,000 players on the server you (or ZoS) are worrying about the power of .0192% of the server. even if there is only 100000 players on the NA server, you are only effecting .096% of the player base. im not convinced that the cap does a damn thing, and i sure as hell don't believe that all you face in PVP are the...... jesus its not even 1%. (note: the percentage gets worse for more total players on a particular server). there would have to be only 10,000 players to even make .96% of the total population.

new players, balancing content, and "fair and equal" are just not good defenses here. new players will have more content to go through than veterans before hitting "the grind", content balance (future, because you typically can't regress your character in MMOs) can be balanced through math, trial and error, and proper testing of gear combined with champion points, and there is no absolute to "fair and equal"; its a complete grey spectrum that varies from individual to individual.

Mystikkal wrote: »

There seems to be a big disconnect here. People who support the level cap are claiming that it is needed as the current system has too large of a power gap. The folks against the level cap, actually generally agree that the power difference is too much (SO STOP SAYING THAT OMG CP MAKES PEOPLE SO OP, WE NEED A CAP). People who disagree with the cap just believe that the cap is not the correct solution to solve the problem. You don't need to always think linearly.. CP too powerful, put CP cap. If you adjust the CP system, so that the overall power is decreased, the diminishing returns are increased and you implement a catch-up mechanism, you have effectively satisfied both parties. The power gap has been significantly closed and those that worked and spent $$ for CP didn't do it for nothing.

You realize the above solution actually solves the power gap better than the cap? With the CAP, new players are going to go into pvp with like 50 CP and get stomped by 500 CP players. If you make the system less powerful, the new players actually stand a better chance. At some point, you also need to give all players x XP towards CP (which will give all new players a baseline number of CP and higher CP players some additional CP, but not nearly as much).

i second this.... the one thing most agree with is the power gap issues. if you adjust and FINE TUNE (not hammer it to death zos) the overall power of the champion system (not adjusting the game TO the system) and put in a better catch up mechanism, life for the champion system would be much better. i still don't fully support changes to how champion points are earned, since the more powerful you are the easier they are to acquire, but i don't care if someone who plays only 4 hours a day on average (aka me) gets more enlightenment, because they only play at best 4 hours a day.

monkeymystic

Vatana wrote: »

Me and my husband play this game from the early access. We have been subscribing the game since then just to support the game we like and the effort of staff being spent to improve it.

We play together (20 % party exp bonus) with ESO PLUS (10% exp bonus) with Rings of mara (20% exp bonus) and with exp potions/ scrolls (50% bonus). We both have 4 VR16 characters with undaunted guild max and in Cadwell gold,2 of them with PvP rank 1 5+. My sum of /played of these 4 characters is 123 days.
Right now I have 532 CP and my husband has 650 CP. As CP cap is going to be 501 CP, there is no progression for us for several next months and we will not have access to part of our CP.

Can anyone explain me why are we going to be punished for supporting and playing this game because someone, who started playing it year and a half later cries to have disadvantage?

We were given ESO PLUS exp bonus and crowns for exp potions just to get spittled into face by a CP cap? That must be a joke!

Is like if you were punished for being in work and working too much and too well.

I was billed for my ESO PLUS membership for few next months just day before Pach notes for Orsinium went out. Now I want my money back, as I will not be able to use my progress made on my account or progress any further.

There are a lot of players above 500 CP and I believe many of them feel the same as I do and many of them are, or used to be ESO PLUS members. I do not care about messy statistics which proves nothing of the reality ingame. If you want real numbers, look at the active guilds (both pvp and pve oriented) which keeps only active members and make a statistics of them.

Agreed, and a good point in terms of how much ZOS really is gonna screw up for themselves and losing dedicated longterm players by doing this.

ZOS could easily implement a better, faster catch-up mechanic, and at the same time rise the cap higher to make it better for everyone. This wouldn't screw over so many players, who now gets punished for actually playing their game!
A win-win situation compared to the mess they are implementing.


Their statistical analysis is so poorly done, I don't know how they messed this up. It's simply full of bias (if ZOS even know what this word means in statistics).

• Have they even compared PC to console players? PC players has a much longer time gap in terms of CP gain compared to console.
  Their average official numbers are so much lower than everyone in all my guilds (400-500 members in each guild, and CP average is around 300-400 according to 600+ people in gchat. Lots of players are way above the cap already) it's funny. These are actually REAL active players, with *active* accounts.

• Have ZOS even thought about how many dedicated players simply have extra accounts with low VR chars with low CP that they sometimes log into for bank space, mail etc, but also have main account with their main chars with lots of CP?
  These accounts are a huge bias, because when the dedicated account player get pissed from this and quit, their extra accounts goes with them.
  These "extra" accounts give the whole CP statistical analysis a false number.
  They add dedicated account 1 with 700 CP, and also include the same players active extra accounts with 30 cp, 20 cp, 40 cp and so on. It would only be 700 CP that matters in this case.

• ZOS, a lot of dedicated longterm players have extra active accounts with low CP chars, and if you *** them off, they take all their accounts down with them. You can redo statistics then and see...

• Have ZOS even considered that the longterm players that doesn't quit after 2 months of VR leveling boredom has a higher chance of continue with the game for a long time, and bring in a lot more $$ in the long run both in terms of twitch/stream/free marketing, but also in subscription/crown store and keep the game alive in the long run?

• And lastly, does ZOS really know how much they are gambling with perhaps their most important playerbase here?
  It's the longterm, dedicated players that bring in new players through twitch/streams, by testing their game for bugs, providing feedback, and lastly, by subscribing and buying more crowns than the average player does.
  These players are very important to keep the game *alive* on a longterm basis.
  
  And ZOS now screw over the dedicated players as a thank you. Fishing them back is hard once they are pissed and gone.
  

They are basically screwing over their dedicated players, the ones that stick around to play their game and don't leave after 2 months to play something new.

They are screwing over the players that stream their game on twitch etc, and market their game for free. They are actually giving these players the middle finger...It's so stupid, but it's ZOS after all.

Not only is ZOS now trying to send their longterm and dedicated players away with this, but they are ALSO failing hard with the catch-up mechanic, so they are making it even HARDER for newcomers to get CP than before...

In conclusion it's all such an amateur mess that it should be part of an episode of "the office" of how to do things 100% wrong. Maybe they should sell their business strategy as a manuscript and make extra $$ that way

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Alex @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert

Mystikkal

I work for a major financial services company.. if the senior management team tried to put a plan like this forth, they would immediately be fired. Ever heard of the phrase: put your customers first? Let's just stick it to those who dedicated themselves to your product. Nice business decision. Think outside the box on this one.. come on, you can do it. Actually 13 year old kids who play your game could even figure this one out. Sorry, I'm not usually this harsh, but when you dedicated month's to something and then have it taken away from under you, you are a little salty.

Anasatsudo

The problem is that ZOS is trying to take the easy way out, instead of actually coming up with a solid plan. This will work for the short term, however the long term detriments to the game are.. well.. yea. CP is a way of encouraging people to keep playing the game.

Best, or close to.. gear in the game? Easy to get
VR16? Easy to get
CP Cap: At 3600 points, this was the low hanging fruit to keep people invested in the game. By putting the cap at 501 (which isn't even a round number for the 3 trees.. wtf), There is nothing to keep people in the game.

This is what happened when I quit DAOC. I got the best gear in the game, highest rvr rank, etc.. by the this time, my character had no further progress to be had, so I quit the game, as many others did as well.

Jura23

Anasatsudo wrote: »

The problem is that ZOS is trying to take the easy way out, instead of actually coming up with a solid plan. This will work for the short term, however the long term detriments to the game are.. well.. yea. CP is a way of encouraging people to keep playing the game.

Best, or close to.. gear in the game? Easy to get
VR16? Easy to get
CP Cap: At 3600 points, this was the low hanging fruit to keep people invested in the game. By putting the cap at 501 (which isn't even a round number for the 3 trees.. wtf), There is nothing to keep people in the game.

This is what happened when I quit DAOC. I got the best gear in the game, highest rvr rank, etc.. by the this time, my character had no further progress to be had, so I quit the game, as many others did as well.

Some ppl just lvl more alts at this phase, but not everybody is altoholic and yeah, those ppl wont be hanging around forever. Sure, if they keep releasing DLCs every 3 months, that will keep them interested, but that is deadly pace they wont be able to keep up.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

Mystikkal wrote: »

I work for a major financial services company.. if the senior management team tried to put a plan like this forth, they would immediately be fired. Ever heard of the phrase: put your customers first? Let's just stick it to those who dedicated themselves to your product. Nice business decision. Think outside the box on this one.. come on, you can do it. Actually 13 year old kids who play your game could even figure this one out. Sorry, I'm not usually this harsh, but when you dedicated month's to something and then have it taken away from under you, you are a little salty.

i told my wife essentially the same but from a stockholder's perspective. lol

but after really thinking about it i thought "im an idiot"..... they should be fired for yet another financial scam to milk their customers for more money lol.

right now the system is designed with the intent that 1 day = 1 point- everyone is equal; even with respect to equal access to the subscription and the need to buy experience pots. everyone is fighting over the "evil cap" and have completely missed the fact that, you are now capped at 501, but it theoretically requires the same amount of effort for 3600 points if not MORE!! they are basing the amount of experience for the next champion point on champion points. now without the exact numbers, but for the sake of example heres what i mean under the new system:

0-100 points = 4 hours play time a day

101-200 = 8 hours of play time a day

201-300 = 16 hours of play time a day

so what that equates to is that each time someone elevates to a new bracket they have to spend MORE time and MORE effort for the next one. what does that mean? new players are screwed, casual players are screwed, and the "hardcore" with more than 501 are screwed, the 400 club gets screwed and the anti-pay-to-win players will be pissed. we just got an equal opportunity screw job for their financial gain. under the current system we ALL have equal opportunity for progress; under the new system it is progress with an asterisk- if you want to reach the 501 or just be "on par" with others you are more than likely going to have to a) buy exp pots, b) subscribe, or c) a combination of both. the new catch up mechanism, will theoretically do exactly the opposite to whats its claimed intent is. if i already play 8-12 hours a day, 16 hours isn't a big issue; if i currently play 1-4 hours a day, 16 hours a day is quite a leap (counting total play time required)....

could the CP cap just be a feint, to distract people from the fact they will have to spend just as much time working to keep up/catch up if not more, or is it a "good faith" effort on their customers behalf? because if the math is right, you WON"T catch up to the 500 club, you will have to put more time, money, and/or effort to even reach the 500 club. on top of THAT, you will likely hit the 500 club to only have to do MORE time with a new NEW cap- and that experience requirement will be even higher than the last bit you loathingly worked through. all games under this time of system has inevitably raised the caps/add new abilities, based on the average player. the players with more than the cap will still be more powerful, based on post-cap accumulation.

from what i see, the straight line upslope we currently have, just took a curved downward slope based on the work/time=points.

Ezareth

maxjapank wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

[quote

You're simply wrong.

Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean you get to put negative labels on others to explain away your inefficiencies. .

Actually I think you're wrong. And thankfully,, it seems that more players disagree with you.

Except it wasn't an opinion I was stating, it was a fact. Whether or not people agree or disagree with me is irrelevant. Can you people even read English?

I don't can't name any players off the top of my head with 500+ champion points who haven't done virtually everything in the game. The premise that these players are just grinders or botters is ignorant. Plain and simple fact.

Justice31st wrote: »

And the fact that you are marginalizing every hardcore gamer as someone who shares the same opinion about the champion cap as your own and ignoring the reason why I am bringing up Richard Lamberts name in the first place ( the fact that he took the time to respond to this forum post with a champion point numbers report his team has data mined to help clear up arguments from people like you) and the fact you are refusing to take a look at this report from the Elder Scrolls Online freakin game creative director is pretty ignorant as well.

There is no "Data-mining". There is no "Report". There is a single number, an average. He gave some basic quantification of this number but a single average really tells us nothing interesting or even surprising. Select AVG(Count *) from Usertable where LastLoginTime > Datetime(-30).

Wow! That cleared up so much for us! It put everything into perspective! No. It really didn't tell us anything other than a lot of players haven't been playing the game much and the population had a huge jump when Tamriel Unlimited was launched...something anyone who actually logged in every day since then could have told you if they were asked.

LordSemaj wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

The comments by you and other people in this thread that marginalizes our opinions because we're just a relatively small percentage of the player base is pretty ignorant. Active and hardcore gamers are the bread and butter of the gaming industry.

Actually if you read my description of the business model you'll see that casuals are the bread and butter of this game. What you're stating applies in Subscription games where the object is player retention, which ESO once was, yet in a Buy to Play model new players trump all. It doesn't matter whether they play every single day or only twice a month. If they buy the DLC, the business model is working. It may seem cynical but there isn't much incentive to cater to veterans in this model. They're the most likely subset of the community to quit, they're likely to come BACK to the game after a new DLC launches (and pay for it), and they'll always have complaints that the game is becoming more new player friendly. Yet making it new player friendly is exactly how the BUY TO PLAY model survives because there aren't enough veterans to override the hoards of people who pick up ESO, try it for a bit, then barely play having forked over their $60.

Even ESO+ is no consolation as new players are likely to pick up a subscription to speed up their catch up time while veterans are more likely to abandon their subscriptions having greatly reduced need of its benefits.

When discussing CP balance and such we're talking about active ESO players so the money gained from purchasing the game itself is irrelevant.

Regarding my comment I was speaking of the gaming industry in general, not ESO regardless. I was actually recently reading the blog from the developers in company that ZoS pays to host their forums (Who also hosts many other major game's forums) on how retaining your "Big fish" active players was important to the business model.

I've actually recently got two casual RL gamer friends of mine to pick up ESO and begin playing it and the question of CPs never once entered the discussion when they were asking me about the game. Neither of them hit Veteran level and one of them has already quit, the other one is already growing bored. /shrug

Needless to say, if all of the hardcore gamers up and left ESO, the casuals would follow and the game would die. The opinions of both segments must be respected and addressed.

Mystikkal

Anasatsudo wrote: »

The problem is that ZOS is trying to take the easy way out, instead of actually coming up with a solid plan. This will work for the short term, however the long term detriments to the game are.. well.. yea. CP is a way of encouraging people to keep playing the game.

Best, or close to.. gear in the game? Easy to get
VR16? Easy to get
CP Cap: At 3600 points, this was the low hanging fruit to keep people invested in the game. By putting the cap at 501 (which isn't even a round number for the 3 trees.. wtf), There is nothing to keep people in the game.

This is what happened when I quit DAOC. I got the best gear in the game, highest rvr rank, etc.. by the this time, my character had no further progress to be had, so I quit the game, as many others did as well.

Agree. It's also a poor financial decision. Not only are you sticking it to an important player base, but people will also be less inclined to sub or buy XP scrolls because they aren't getting the xp/CP. Those lost purchases, plus the fact that many will quit. You can attract new players (e.g. reduce the power gap) without also demotivating and upsetting your more dedicated playerbase.

daemonios

Anasatsudo wrote: »

By putting the cap at 501 (which isn't even a round number for the 3 trees.. wtf), There is nothing to keep people in the game.

Less grinding, more math. 501 is EXACTLY 167x3.

Ezareth

Vatana wrote: »

Me and my husband play this game from the early access. We have been subscribing the game since then just to support the game we like and the effort of staff being spent to improve it.

We play together (20 % party exp bonus) with ESO PLUS (10% exp bonus) with Rings of mara (20% exp bonus) and with exp potions/ scrolls (50% bonus). We both have 4 VR16 characters with undaunted guild max and in Cadwell gold,2 of them with PvP rank 1 5+. My sum of /played of these 4 characters is 123 days.
Right now I have 532 CP and my husband has 650 CP. As CP cap is going to be 501 CP, there is no progression for us for several next months and we will not have access to part of our CP.

Can anyone explain me why are we going to be punished for supporting and playing this game because someone, who started playing it year and a half later cries to have disadvantage?

We were given ESO PLUS exp bonus and crowns for exp potions just to get spittled into face by a CP cap? That must be a joke!

Is like if you were punished for being in work and working too much and too well.

I was billed for my ESO PLUS membership for few next months just day before Pach notes for Orsinium went out. Now I want my money back, as I will not be able to use my progress made on my account or progress any further.

There are a lot of players above 500 CP and I believe many of them feel the same as I do and many of them are, or used to be ESO PLUS members. I do not care about messy statistics which proves nothing of the reality ingame. If you want real numbers, look at the active guilds (both pvp and pve oriented) which keeps only active members and make a statistics of them.

Thanks for your example of yet another *real* player and loyal customer who is getting screwed by this patch. I feel exactly the same way and I'm not even at cap.

Ezareth

Sausage wrote: »

Vatana wrote: »

Me and my husband play this game from the early access. We have been subscribing the game since then just to support the game we like and the effort of staff being spent to improve it.

We play together (20 % party exp bonus) with ESO PLUS (10% exp bonus) with Rings of mara (20% exp bonus) and with exp potions/ scrolls (50% bonus). We both have 4 VR16 characters with undaunted guild max and in Cadwell gold,2 of them with PvP rank 1 5+. My sum of /played of these 4 characters is 123 days.
Right now I have 532 CP and my husband has 650 CP. As CP cap is going to be 501 CP, there is no progression for us for several next months and we will not have access to part of our CP.

Can anyone explain me why are we going to be punished for supporting and playing this game because someone, who started playing it year and a half later cries to have disadvantage?

We were given ESO PLUS exp bonus and crowns for exp potions just to get spittled into face by a CP cap? That must be a joke!

Is like if you were punished for being in work and working too much and too well.

I was billed for my ESO PLUS membership for few next months just day before Pach notes for Orsinium went out. Now I want my money back, as I will not be able to use my progress made on my account or progress any further.

There are a lot of players above 500 CP and I believe many of them feel the same as I do and many of them are, or used to be ESO PLUS members. I do not care about messy statistics which proves nothing of the reality ingame. If you want real numbers, look at the active guilds (both pvp and pve oriented) which keeps only active members and make a statistics of them.

These kind of players needs to be rewarded with gold, what Ive said. Slowly this game is starting to get gold-sinks so gold is important. I spent myself about 1 mill when IC was launched, new materials and craft set. Reward people with gold, and it depends on how far you're beyond the cap and also reward people with gold who reach the cap fastest, like whoever is first to the cap, he gets 1 mill gold. Gold is useful but not OP, so people wouldnt whine too much I think.

Gold is worthless. All of the players like us already have more gold than we can spend and everything possible in the game. And in my case that includes AP, Tel Var stones or any other game currency.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

Mystikkal wrote: »

I work for a major financial services company.. if the senior management team tried to put a plan like this forth, they would immediately be fired. Ever heard of the phrase: put your customers first? Let's just stick it to those who dedicated themselves to your product. Nice business decision. Think outside the box on this one.. come on, you can do it. Actually 13 year old kids who play your game could even figure this one out. Sorry, I'm not usually this harsh, but when you dedicated month's to something and then have it taken away from under you, you are a little salty.

i told my wife essentially the same but from a stockholder's perspective. lol

but after really thinking about it i thought "im an idiot"..... they should be fired for yet another financial scam to milk their customers for more money lol.

right now the system is designed with the intent that 1 day = 1 point- everyone is equal; even with respect to equal access to the subscription and the need to buy experience pots. everyone is fighting over the "evil cap" and have completely missed the fact that, you are now capped at 501, but it theoretically requires the same amount of effort for 3600 points if not MORE!! they are basing the amount of experience for the next champion point on champion points. now without the exact numbers, but for the sake of example heres what i mean under the new system:

0-100 points = 4 hours play time a day

101-200 = 8 hours of play time a day

201-300 = 16 hours of play time a day

so what that equates to is that each time someone elevates to a new bracket they have to spend MORE time and MORE effort for the next one. what does that mean? new players are screwed, casual players are screwed, and the "hardcore" with more than 501 are screwed, the 400 club gets screwed and the anti-pay-to-win players will be pissed. we just got an equal opportunity screw job for their financial gain. under the current system we ALL have equal opportunity for progress; under the new system it is progress with an asterisk- if you want to reach the 501 or just be "on par" with others you are more than likely going to have to a) buy exp pots, b) subscribe, or c) a combination of both. the new catch up mechanism, will theoretically do exactly the opposite to whats its claimed intent is. if i already play 8-12 hours a day, 16 hours isn't a big issue; if i currently play 1-4 hours a day, 16 hours a day is quite a leap (counting total play time required)....

could the CP cap just be a feint, to distract people from the fact they will have to spend just as much time working to keep up/catch up if not more, or is it a "good faith" effort on their customers behalf? because if the math is right, you WON"T catch up to the 500 club, you will have to put more time, money, and/or effort to even reach the 500 club. on top of THAT, you will likely hit the 500 club to only have to do MORE time with a new NEW cap- and that experience requirement will be even higher than the last bit you loathingly worked through. all games under this time of system has inevitably raised the caps/add new abilities, based on the average player. the players with more than the cap will still be more powerful, based on post-cap accumulation.

from what i see, the straight line upslope we currently have, just took a curved downward slope based on the work/time=points.

in addition to the above quote, with the release of IC the revamped the game around the champion system, to stop perma-blocking, perma-dodge-rolling, too much overall DPS.... you are already partially required and expected to have champion point expenditures. so you don't exactly have as much choice with how you want to go about getting champion points, you will have to get them.

fosokles

I personally think putting a cap on CPs is a very good decision, since at its current state champion system is a broken, poorly thought out mechanics which has evolved into quite large base stats advantage for players doing high-exp-reward activities which pretty much consisted of grinding zombies or goblins. It is kind of sad that how well you do in a raid is actually determined by how much time you spent in a cave, though CP cap will limit this to some extend and for that I'm glad.

To all the people crying about the cap I say: "You seriously expected this imbalance to last forever?". I mean seriously, so much is wrong with champion system, any reasonable person should have expected changes. Also the numbers of people to be affected put out by ZOS to me seem very believable. Most players don't have many CPs, e.g. an end game progress guild can have at most 100 players, likely all of them over 500 CPs or very close to it, but if you look around casual guilds which are plenty and have hundreds of members, most of these haven't surpassed 200th mark. Daily I find rank 16 players with barely over 100 CPs. Most activities in PvE have very little exp reward, like doing daily gold and silver will not even burn enlightenment for 1 CP. Fishing, gathering, crafting and so on ... these activities don't even reward players with exp, yet they are still considered character progress (you get achievements for doing them), unfortunately not in the CP tree.

Also I want to add that this will not only help the game, but I also think this is a very sound business decision as well, since champion system was actually putting off potential new players to the game which I witnessed firsthand. When a new player finds out what he has to do and collect to be able to join end game raiding and be useful, he will simply quit. It's ridiculous that if someone spends month or two getting rank 16, decent equip and leveled abilities, he is still totally useless in a ICP or WGT due to having ~100 CPs - which won't enable him to do damage, leave him very vulnerable too enemy damage and of course of out resources. So basically even if get some of friend to try this game, play it, even after months I won't be able to do anything serious with him since he will be useless in a group. Only champion system is to blame for this, CP cap is an argument for getting in new players in which is extremely vital.

phbell

Ezareth wrote: »

LordSemaj wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Noobie, CP grinder and ZoS

Luke = the noob, darth = the cp grinder, ZOS = Tbagging ? FENGRUSH is confused!

No... the teabagger is the CP grinder and ZOS is Darth Vader.

The image is surprisingly accurate. ZOS has force choked and sabered the grinders to protect the newbies.

Except CPs are not and have *never* been the reason those "newbies" are dying. This whole sense of "protecting" casuals and newbies is a total illusion. It's a scapegoat that will quickly shift to something else once Osrinium is released.

Agreed.

I have been at this game since shortly after go-live. I have somewhere around 300 CP. I get beat in most of my 1v1 encounters in PvP and I will tell you why... because they are better. If i wish to get better at PvP then I had better read more and practice more because that is what those besting me are doing. I have been discovering lately that I am becoming harder to kill the more I practice. I have no harsh words for those that are better (as long as there are no exploits and cheating) and would love a little tutoring because as it stands now I could have 3K CP and get thumped.

Vatana wrote: »

Me and my husband play this game from the early access. We have been subscribing the game since then just to support the game we like and the effort of staff being spent to improve it.

We play together (20 % party exp bonus) with ESO PLUS (10% exp bonus) with Rings of mara (20% exp bonus) and with exp potions/ scrolls (50% bonus). We both have 4 VR16 characters with undaunted guild max and in Cadwell gold,2 of them with PvP rank 1 5+. My sum of /played of these 4 characters is 123 days.
Right now I have 532 CP and my husband has 650 CP. As CP cap is going to be 501 CP, there is no progression for us for several next months and we will not have access to part of our CP.

Can anyone explain me why are we going to be punished for supporting and playing this game because someone, who started playing it year and a half later cries to have disadvantage?

We were given ESO PLUS exp bonus and crowns for exp potions just to get spittled into face by a CP cap? That must be a joke!

Is like if you were punished for being in work and working too much and too well.

I was billed for my ESO PLUS membership for few next months just day before Pach notes for Orsinium went out. Now I want my money back, as I will not be able to use my progress made on my account or progress any further.

There are a lot of players above 500 CP and I believe many of them feel the same as I do and many of them are, or used to be ESO PLUS members. I do not care about messy statistics which proves nothing of the reality ingame. If you want real numbers, look at the active guilds (both pvp and pve oriented) which keeps only active members and make a statistics of them.

I am with you on this and have pointed it out in several other threads. Without getting into the rightness of capping CP's, by capping the CP's ESO effectively stops delivering on one of the stated benefits of ESO+ subscription. While I am sure that unilateral changes like this are excused somewhere in the fine print of the ToS, I think to do so without some other type of compensation to their subscribers is dismissive and very poor treatment. It may not be illegal (strictly speaking) but it is ethically challenged. I wonder how the decision makers at ESO would feel if they were treated in such fashion.

As far as I can see, about all you can do is express your displeasure by canceling your subscription. That is my plan anyway. With the exception of the horrible performance issues introduced with the IC patch I still like the game; however this decision will allow me to save ~$180/year. It's a shame really...

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

fosokles wrote: »

I personally think putting a cap on CPs is a very good decision, since at its current state champion system is a broken, poorly thought out mechanics which has evolved into quite large base stats advantage for players doing high-exp-reward activities which pretty much consisted of grinding zombies or goblins. It is kind of sad that how well you do in a raid is actually determined by how much time you spent in a cave, though CP cap will limit this to some extend and for that I'm glad.

To all the people crying about the cap I say: "You seriously expected this imbalance to last forever?". I mean seriously, so much is wrong with champion system, any reasonable person should have expected changes. Also the numbers of people to be affected put out by ZOS to me seem very believable. Most players don't have many CPs, e.g. an end game progress guild can have at most 100 players, likely all of them over 500 CPs or very close to it, but if you look around casual guilds which are plenty and have hundreds of members, most of these haven't surpassed 200th mark. Daily I find rank 16 players with barely over 100 CPs. Most activities in PvE have very little exp reward, like doing daily gold and silver will not even burn enlightenment for 1 CP. Fishing, gathering, crafting and so on ... these activities don't even reward players with exp, yet they are still considered character progress (you get achievements for doing them), unfortunately not in the CP tree.

Also I want to add that this will not only help the game, but I also think this is a very sound business decision as well, since champion system was actually putting off potential new players to the game which I witnessed firsthand. When a new player finds out what he has to do and collect to be able to join end game raiding and be useful, he will simply quit. It's ridiculous that if someone spends month or two getting rank 16, decent equip and leveled abilities, he is still totally useless in a ICP or WGT due to having ~100 CPs - which won't enable him to do damage, leave him very vulnerable too enemy damage and of course of out resources. So basically even if get some of friend to try this game, play it, even after months I won't be able to do anything serious with him since he will be useless in a group. Only champion system is to blame for this, CP cap is an argument for getting in new players in which is extremely vital.

you need to read my post above yours.... you more than likely won't benefit at all.

zornyan

fosokles wrote: »

I personally think putting a cap on CPs is a very good decision, since at its current state champion system is a broken, poorly thought out mechanics which has evolved into quite large base stats advantage for players doing high-exp-reward activities which pretty much consisted of grinding zombies or goblins. It is kind of sad that how well you do in a raid is actually determined by how much time you spent in a cave, though CP cap will limit this to some extend and for that I'm glad.

To all the people crying about the cap I say: "You seriously expected this imbalance to last forever?". I mean seriously, so much is wrong with champion system, any reasonable person should have expected changes. Also the numbers of people to be affected put out by ZOS to me seem very believable. Most players don't have many CPs, e.g. an end game progress guild can have at most 100 players, likely all of them over 500 CPs or very close to it, but if you look around casual guilds which are plenty and have hundreds of members, most of these haven't surpassed 200th mark. Daily I find rank 16 players with barely over 100 CPs. Most activities in PvE have very little exp reward, like doing daily gold and silver will not even burn enlightenment for 1 CP. Fishing, gathering, crafting and so on ... these activities don't even reward players with exp, yet they are still considered character progress (you get achievements for doing them), unfortunately not in the CP tree.

Also I want to add that this will not only help the game, but I also think this is a very sound business decision as well, since champion system was actually putting off potential new players to the game which I witnessed firsthand. When a new player finds out what he has to do and collect to be able to join end game raiding and be useful, he will simply quit. It's ridiculous that if someone spends month or two getting rank 16, decent equip and leveled abilities, he is still totally useless in a ICP or WGT due to having ~100 CPs - which won't enable him to do damage, leave him very vulnerable too enemy damage and of course of out resources. So basically even if get some of friend to try this game, play it, even after months I won't be able to do anything serious with him since he will be useless in a group. Only champion system is to blame for this, CP cap is an argument for getting in new players in which is extremely vital.

Really 100 cp excludes people from end game content? You're telling me that 9% damage buff, or what? 8% bonus resistance means you can't complete end game content? that's a you issue not cp.

Put it this way, at 100cp you'll get 10% odd physical damage buff from mighty. (33 points )

Go unequip medium armor and see what difference that makes to dps, it's a difference sure, but very slight.

If you can't complete the content with sub q00 cp, you probably wouldn't even have a chance with 3600cp, hence why my magicka templar can solo all group delves and bosses etc in craglorn with ease since vr7, yet my buddy and his vr16 night blade can't even do a single boss or delve on his own.

nimander99

The thing I really don't understand is this, if the number of people who have more than 1k CP's is 2 why do anything? And if the there is so few people who will be affected by a 501 Cap, again, why do anything?

The majority of the complaints I'm reading are "I want to catch up instantly" or "this is going to *** off everyone" and I'm trying to square that with "the cap will effect almost no one"....

Sharkano

All I know is the day I hit 501 and lose any real benefit from paying a subscription, I go FTP. The guys who run this game are simply out of their minds as to how to make money . . . .

k2blader

I still really do not understand why the very small number of people who have more than 501 CPs are upset about this.

You will still be more powerful than the vast majority of the playerbase.

And certainly your skill will separate you from the crowd otherwise.

?

[edit]
Also to idiots who say, "My ____ class can do X, Y, Z even though I've seen others not be able to." Grow a freakin brain. What can be accomplished on a certain class with a certain build is wildly different across the board. Also it's pretty clear templar is probably the best PvE soloing class around due to it's survivability.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

nimander99 wrote: »

The thing I really don't understand is this, if the number of people who have more than 1k CP's is 2 why do anything? And if the there is so few people who will be affected by a 501 Cap, again, why do anything?

The majority of the complaints I'm reading are "I want to catch up instantly" or "this is going to *** off everyone" and I'm trying to square that with "the cap will effect almost no one"....

Sharkano wrote: »

All I know is the day I hit 501 and lose any real benefit from paying a subscription, I go FTP. The guys who run this game are simply out of their minds as to how to make money . . . .

because if my estimations are right (see my above post) it could potentially net them more money.

SirDopey

monkeymystic wrote: »

Vatana wrote: »

Me and my husband play this game from the early access. We have been subscribing the game since then just to support the game we like and the effort of staff being spent to improve it.

We play together (20 % party exp bonus) with ESO PLUS (10% exp bonus) with Rings of mara (20% exp bonus) and with exp potions/ scrolls (50% bonus). We both have 4 VR16 characters with undaunted guild max and in Cadwell gold,2 of them with PvP rank 1 5+. My sum of /played of these 4 characters is 123 days.
Right now I have 532 CP and my husband has 650 CP. As CP cap is going to be 501 CP, there is no progression for us for several next months and we will not have access to part of our CP.

Can anyone explain me why are we going to be punished for supporting and playing this game because someone, who started playing it year and a half later cries to have disadvantage?

We were given ESO PLUS exp bonus and crowns for exp potions just to get spittled into face by a CP cap? That must be a joke!

Is like if you were punished for being in work and working too much and too well.

I was billed for my ESO PLUS membership for few next months just day before Pach notes for Orsinium went out. Now I want my money back, as I will not be able to use my progress made on my account or progress any further.

There are a lot of players above 500 CP and I believe many of them feel the same as I do and many of them are, or used to be ESO PLUS members. I do not care about messy statistics which proves nothing of the reality ingame. If you want real numbers, look at the active guilds (both pvp and pve oriented) which keeps only active members and make a statistics of them.

Agreed, and a good point in terms of how much ZOS really is gonna screw up for themselves and losing dedicated longterm players by doing this.

ZOS could easily implement a better, faster catch-up mechanic, and at the same time rise the cap higher to make it better for everyone. This wouldn't screw over so many players, who now gets punished for actually playing their game!
A win-win situation compared to the mess they are implementing.


Their statistical analysis is so poorly done, I don't know how they messed this up. It's simply full of bias (if ZOS even know what this word means in statistics).

• Have they even compared PC to console players? PC players has a much longer time gap in terms of CP gain compared to console.
  Their average official numbers are so much lower than everyone in all my guilds (400-500 members in each guild, and CP average is around 300-400 according to 600+ people in gchat. Lots of players are way above the cap already) it's funny. These are actually REAL active players, with *active* accounts.

• Have ZOS even thought about how many dedicated players simply have extra accounts with low VR chars with low CP that they sometimes log into for bank space, mail etc, but also have main account with their main chars with lots of CP?
  These accounts are a huge bias, because when the dedicated account player get pissed from this and quit, their extra accounts goes with them.
  These "extra" accounts give the whole CP statistical analysis a false number.
  They add dedicated account 1 with 700 CP, and also include the same players active extra accounts with 30 cp, 20 cp, 40 cp and so on. It would only be 700 CP that matters in this case.

• ZOS, a lot of dedicated longterm players have extra active accounts with low CP chars, and if you *** them off, they take all their accounts down with them. You can redo statistics then and see...

• Have ZOS even considered that the longterm players that doesn't quit after 2 months of VR leveling boredom has a higher chance of continue with the game for a long time, and bring in a lot more $$ in the long run both in terms of twitch/stream/free marketing, but also in subscription/crown store and keep the game alive in the long run?

• And lastly, does ZOS really know how much they are gambling with perhaps their most important playerbase here?
  It's the longterm, dedicated players that bring in new players through twitch/streams, by testing their game for bugs, providing feedback, and lastly, by subscribing and buying more crowns than the average player does.
  These players are very important to keep the game *alive* on a longterm basis.
  
  And ZOS now screw over the dedicated players as a thank you. Fishing them back is hard once they are pissed and gone.
  

They are basically screwing over their dedicated players, the ones that stick around to play their game and don't leave after 2 months to play something new.

They are screwing over the players that stream their game on twitch etc, and market their game for free. They are actually giving these players the middle finger...It's so stupid, but it's ZOS after all.

Not only is ZOS now trying to send their longterm and dedicated players away with this, but they are ALSO failing hard with the catch-up mechanic, so they are making it even HARDER for newcomers to get CP than before...

In conclusion it's all such an amateur mess that it should be part of an episode of "the office" of how to do things 100% wrong. Maybe they should sell their business strategy as a manuscript and make extra $$ that way

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Alex @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert

Would you "Hardcore" gamers get off your high horses and realize that the game does NOT evolve around you. As much as you want to make yourselves feel special, your subscription fees are not any more important/worthwhile than the players that only play 2 or 3 times a week. They (the 2 or 3 times a week) are many more in numbers than you, and they are FAR more likely to stop playing when they can't compete with the God Like accounts due to the power gap. Your options are to remain OP and keep all your CPs with no player base cause everyone has left and the game can't attract any new players or just play the game and be permanently maxed out (cause lets face it, your going to cry, your going to say your going to quit, but you wont. you will continue to grind and earn cp so that when the cap is lifted you're again, maxed out)

maxjapank

Vatana wrote: »

Me and my husband play this game from the early access. We have been subscribing the game since then just to support the game we like and the effort of staff being spent to improve it.

We play together (20 % party exp bonus) with ESO PLUS (10% exp bonus) with Rings of mara (20% exp bonus) and with exp potions/ scrolls (50% bonus). We both have 4 VR16 characters with undaunted guild max and in Cadwell gold,2 of them with PvP rank 1 5+. My sum of /played of these 4 characters is 123 days.
Right now I have 532 CP and my husband has 650 CP. As CP cap is going to be 501 CP, there is no progression for us for several next months and we will not have access to part of our CP.

Can anyone explain me why are we going to be punished for supporting and playing this game because someone, who started playing it year and a half later cries to have disadvantage?

We were given ESO PLUS exp bonus and crowns for exp potions just to get spittled into face by a CP cap? That must be a joke!

Is like if you were punished for being in work and working too much and too well.

I was billed for my ESO PLUS membership for few next months just day before Pach notes for Orsinium went out. Now I want my money back, as I will not be able to use my progress made on my account or progress any further.

There are a lot of players above 500 CP and I believe many of them feel the same as I do and many of them are, or used to be ESO PLUS members. I do not care about messy statistics which proves nothing of the reality ingame. If you want real numbers, look at the active guilds (both pvp and pve oriented) which keeps only active members and make a statistics of them.

I hear what you are saying. I was also "screwed" when they introduced the CP system because I had completed every single quest in the game. So I watched guildmates, who had previously grinded to v14, go on to finish Cadwell silver and gold earning tons of CP along the way. What was I to do? Must I roll an ALT? Must I continually wait to get a group together for pledges when the Oceanic time zone is barely active week nights? Step into Cyrodiil which is also fairly dead during that time? Why couldn't I earn CP while playing in non-vet pvp?

These are all things that are unfair. But if I think about the overall health of the game. Not what I want. But where most people are, according to info provided by Richard. If I look at the poll being conducted where 70% of the votes support the CP cap, then I'll just have to accept that a CP cap seems best at this point in time.

You say "a lot of players", but the data doesn't support it. Maybe "a lot of players" in your world. But not in the ESO world.

Ezareth wrote: »

Thanks for your example of yet another *real* player and loyal customer who is getting screwed by this patch. I feel exactly the same way and I'm not even at cap.

I am a "real player" too. And loyal customer. So intriguing how players that don't believe what you do are suddenly "not real" and "not loyal." The world you live in must be small.

Conquistador

The grind for CP is pathetic and I am disgusted I have to be around players that have more than me.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

maxjapank wrote: »

Vatana wrote: »

Me and my husband play this game from the early access. We have been subscribing the game since then just to support the game we like and the effort of staff being spent to improve it.

We play together (20 % party exp bonus) with ESO PLUS (10% exp bonus) with Rings of mara (20% exp bonus) and with exp potions/ scrolls (50% bonus). We both have 4 VR16 characters with undaunted guild max and in Cadwell gold,2 of them with PvP rank 1 5+. My sum of /played of these 4 characters is 123 days.
Right now I have 532 CP and my husband has 650 CP. As CP cap is going to be 501 CP, there is no progression for us for several next months and we will not have access to part of our CP.

Can anyone explain me why are we going to be punished for supporting and playing this game because someone, who started playing it year and a half later cries to have disadvantage?

We were given ESO PLUS exp bonus and crowns for exp potions just to get spittled into face by a CP cap? That must be a joke!

Is like if you were punished for being in work and working too much and too well.

I was billed for my ESO PLUS membership for few next months just day before Pach notes for Orsinium went out. Now I want my money back, as I will not be able to use my progress made on my account or progress any further.

There are a lot of players above 500 CP and I believe many of them feel the same as I do and many of them are, or used to be ESO PLUS members. I do not care about messy statistics which proves nothing of the reality ingame. If you want real numbers, look at the active guilds (both pvp and pve oriented) which keeps only active members and make a statistics of them.

I hear what you are saying. I was also "screwed" when they introduced the CP system because I had completed every single quest in the game. So I watched guildmates, who had previously grinded to v14, go on to finish Cadwell silver and gold earning tons of CP along the way. What was I to do? Must I roll an ALT? Must I continually wait to get a group together for pledges when the Oceanic time zone is barely active week nights? Step into Cyrodiil which is also fairly dead during that time? Why couldn't I earn CP while playing in non-vet pvp?

These are all things that are unfair. But if I think about the overall health of the game. Not what I want. But where most people are, according to info provided by Richard. If I look at the poll being conducted where 70% of the votes support the CP cap, then I'll just have to accept that a CP cap seems best at this point in time.

You say "a lot of players", but the data doesn't support it. Maybe "a lot of players" in your world. But not in the ESO world.

Ezareth wrote: »

Thanks for your example of yet another *real* player and loyal customer who is getting screwed by this patch. I feel exactly the same way and I'm not even at cap.

I am a "real player" too. And loyal customer. So intriguing how players that don't believe what you do are suddenly "not real" and "not loyal." The world you live in must be small.

if you are talking about this one, 70% is not at all correct 55% are for it, 16 kinda for it, and 28 are against it, stop inflating your number its factually false.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/202649/do-you-agree-with-the-zos-putting-a-cap-on-champion-points-per-dlc/p1

Tholian1

I am beginning to wonder if the most vocal against the cap are really upset for other reasons. I keep seeing words like "loyal", "dedicated", "real players" being used a lot in their arguments against the cap. Using words like that don't help their arguments, in my opinion.

ZOS has all the metrics they need to make informed decisions about their game. The rest of us only have anecdotal evidence to base our opinions on as far as the game population is concerned.

maxjapank

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

if you are talking about this one, 70% is not at all correct 55% are for it, 16 kinda for it, and 28 are against it, stop inflating your number its factually false.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/202649/do-you-agree-with-the-zos-putting-a-cap-on-champion-points-per-dlc/p1

No. It is 71%. The 16% support the cap, but want to be able to earn CP even though they can't spend it. You could do a separate poll and word the question differently. But as it was, those 16% do support the cap.

Regardless of how you want to perceive it, 55% in favor vs. 28% not in favor is a pretty large difference.