[Patch Notes] Champion Point cap will be set at 501

Ezareth

Kronuxx wrote: »

Truth be told, I think the cap of 501 is fine. If anything above 300 makes little difference, then what's the problem with a cap at 501?

"The amount of XP required to gain a Champion Point now scales with the number of total Champion Points you have.
If you don’t have any Champion Points, you will earn them very quickly.
If you have a lot of Champion Points, you will earn them slower."

In addition, I must be missing the point in people complaining here but isn't the above quote a good thing? I mean, it makes sense that people with less champion points should earn them more quickly than those with more. Does no one here play D3 at all? You guys do realize that this Champion Point system is basically a direct rip off from the Paragon leveling system from D3. In D3 it is extremely easy for any new player to compete and do well with any of the older established players because leveling your Paragon level was based on the current level. The higher you are, the more difficult, and the lower you are the more quickly and easily it was to gain exp. At this current state ZOS' CP progression is horrid. However I feel this new logistical system they are implementing in PTS, is leagues better than what we have now. I only wish they did it sooner rather than later.

The champion system on introduction was a rip of the Paragon system in D3 (and I'm assuming Blizzard ripped that off from something else...it is the nature of games).

It was actually one thing I liked about the CP system....something that allows you to never stop progressing....(until Osrinium that is).

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

Ezareth wrote: »

Kronuxx wrote: »

Truth be told, I think the cap of 501 is fine. If anything above 300 makes little difference, then what's the problem with a cap at 501?

"The amount of XP required to gain a Champion Point now scales with the number of total Champion Points you have.
If you don’t have any Champion Points, you will earn them very quickly.
If you have a lot of Champion Points, you will earn them slower."

In addition, I must be missing the point in people complaining here but isn't the above quote a good thing? I mean, it makes sense that people with less champion points should earn them more quickly than those with more. Does no one here play D3 at all? You guys do realize that this Champion Point system is basically a direct rip off from the Paragon leveling system from D3. In D3 it is extremely easy for any new player to compete and do well with any of the older established players because leveling your Paragon level was based on the current level. The higher you are, the more difficult, and the lower you are the more quickly and easily it was to gain exp. At this current state ZOS' CP progression is horrid. However I feel this new logistical system they are implementing in PTS, is leagues better than what we have now. I only wish they did it sooner rather than later.

The champion system on introduction was a rip of the Paragon system in D3 (and I'm assuming Blizzard ripped that off from something else...it is the nature of games).

It was actually one thing I liked about the CP system....something that allows you to never stop progressing....(until Osrinium that is).

it may be modeled after that, but it behaves more in line with EQ's AA system. its only horizontal in that it was largely meant for those at level cap. other wise it was a system that did make you much more powerful. rift has the planar attunement which is also a alternate character progression.

my frustration with zos stems from the fact there are a few games they could have modeled their system off of. they choose not to, or ignore the woes of the other systems and made the CS.

stevenbennett_ESO

I'm totally amused by the people who've posted here who have suddenly been faced with the reality that the vast majority of players don't play anywhere near as often as they do. I'm even more amused by the ones who continue to doubt that fact despite the evidence to the contrary. (and the long-established truth that this is the case for every MMO ever released… )

That said, I'm not unsympathetic to the 1%ers who are griping about the cap. If I had that many CP, I'd be griping too. Which is why when @timidobserver suggested an alternate non-combat use for the CP above the cap, I chimed in with my own thought - that instead of spending them for non-combat perks, you simply get non-combat perks for having *unspent* CP. Honestly, I think that's probably the best of both worlds here - you have a reason to keep earning CP above the cap and the excess CP doesn't go to waste.

Ishammael

All of this discussion is now moot.
Check the numbers for how much CPs cost now.
The CP cap actually helps player who already earned them (i.e. that have them in the bank).

Teargrants

OGLezard wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Don't see any discussion about it yet, guess most ppl haven't checked the PTS patch notes.

Champion System Updates
We have reduced the XP required to earn Champion Points for those with smaller amounts in order to create a fairer gameplay experience. We are also capping the total number of Champion Points that can be spent.
At this time, you will not be able to allocate more than 501 Champion Points.
Anyone that has over 501 Champion Points when the Orsinium DLC game pack is published will have all their Champion Points reset, and will only be able to allocate 501 Champion Points.
You will not lose any points over 501, you just won’t be able to spend them.
You can continue to earn Champion Points over the cap, but won’t be able to spend them until the next time the cap is raised.
The amount of XP required to gain a Champion Point now scales with the number of total Champion Points you have.
If you don’t have any Champion Points, you will earn them very quickly.
If you have a lot of Champion Points, you will earn them slower.

All I have to say is that cap is way to low going on into the months after Orsinium release with an undisclosed "whenever we feel like raising the cap" point in the future. Going by the stated "about 2 big updates a year" that was bandied around on ESO Live back during the B2P transition, one would assume that the caps would be increased about every 6 months.

DAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN @Teargrants Rich himself edited your post lololololol

That's interesting, but none of the content of my post has been changed, unless there was some minor change to the patch notes I quoted. So, ok?

b92303008rwb17_ESO

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

The averages I posted were calculated from active accounts that have at least 1 VR character. (i.e. - can start earning CP) An account is only considered active if it has been logged into in the past 30 days and played the game for a period of time.

Thank you, Rich, This is exactly the honesty and communication I have been looking forward to. I am literally sing your praises for this transparency.

Xeven

Teargrants wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Don't see any discussion about it yet, guess most ppl haven't checked the PTS patch notes.

Champion System Updates
We have reduced the XP required to earn Champion Points for those with smaller amounts in order to create a fairer gameplay experience. We are also capping the total number of Champion Points that can be spent.
At this time, you will not be able to allocate more than 501 Champion Points.
Anyone that has over 501 Champion Points when the Orsinium DLC game pack is published will have all their Champion Points reset, and will only be able to allocate 501 Champion Points.
You will not lose any points over 501, you just won’t be able to spend them.
You can continue to earn Champion Points over the cap, but won’t be able to spend them until the next time the cap is raised.
The amount of XP required to gain a Champion Point now scales with the number of total Champion Points you have.
If you don’t have any Champion Points, you will earn them very quickly.
If you have a lot of Champion Points, you will earn them slower.

All I have to say is that cap is way to low going on into the months after Orsinium release with an undisclosed "whenever we feel like raising the cap" point in the future. Going by the stated "about 2 big updates a year" that was bandied around on ESO Live back during the B2P transition, one would assume that the caps would be increased about every 6 months.

DAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN @Teargrants Rich himself edited your post lololololol

That's interesting, but none of the content of my post has been changed, unless there was some minor change to the patch notes I quoted. So, ok?

This always happens to the OP when a dev posts somewhere in the thread. It's nothing. It just adds the ZOS icon to the thread title.

Ezareth

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I will ignore the immature attacks and just ask: So you want a PvP game artificially and increasingly favoring the one who has more time at hand instead of providing an adequate playingfield that allows skill to prevail?

Didn`t you complain about the lack of challenges a few posts before? Hmm, one might think...there`s a connection. If you would be the person you claim to be, shouldnt you be happy to know you won on even field which usually benefits challenges and such?!

The old bait and switch...classic!

I don't know what "adequate playingfield" even means. If you mean level playing field or something of that nature, no I don't want to play Call of Duty, or Dota with Swords and spells. I'm completely fine with having an inherant advantage over others or others having an advantage over me. The entire premise of having an "Emperor" or Level 10 players in Cyrodiil itself pretty much ensure that will always be the case.

Alliance War Rank 10.
Undaunted Passives.
Legendary Gear and difficult vet-only gear.

This game has many, many grinds and hills to climb that all make your gear more powerful and I think that is a good thing with one caveat....the hill must be reasonable and people should never become so powerful that others can't catch up to them in relative(if not absolute) strength.

I fully support a catch up mechanic that allows new players the opportunity to rapidly catch up to the CP leading players.

I support a Cap that doesn't inhibit players who didn't abuse the CP system and just played the game as they always have in the past (not countless hours grinding PvE to make their chars strong).

I've had some great ideas that I suggested to even fix the CP mess such as eliminating enlightenment for people as a softcap and a much higher hard cap. You could set the "softcap" of no enlightenment at 500CPs and then put the hard cap of no CPs at 800 Cps or something along those lines. I'm fine with never getting enlightened again and giving that only to newer players or whatever so they can catch up.

If you know me you'll know I'm not a dueler. I never cared for 1 v 1s as they are frankly boring to me. (I hold no disregard towards those who do enjoy them though). I get my challenges by pitting myself against many weaker and less skillful players. I've always enjoyed outnumbered fighting. I fully realize that these players aren't as geared, levelled, or skilled as I am but they *always* have had a chance to kill me. I enjoy myself when I win and I realize that I was 1 mistake from death for the entirety of the fight or even when I lose and I have a learning moment where I realize something I did contributed to my death so I can improve.

I'm no different than the classic late game "Carry" in a Moba game. Both my time and my skill have given me a level of power over other players that is difficult to overcome (but not for other Carries). There is nothing wrong with this and If you knew me you'd know I don't spend my time running around ganking lowbies and casuals.

I'm not making this argument for *my* sake, once again. I'm not going to lose *anything* come Osrinium because I'll just be hitting 500CPs when it is released. It won't make me any weaker but I don't like what it represents to many of my friends who will have nothing to look forward to (along with myself).

Xeven

Ezareth wrote: »

I'm not making this argument for *my* sake, once again. I'm not going to lose *anything* come Osrinium because I'll just be hitting 500CPs when it is released. It won't make me any weaker but I don't like what it represents to many of my friends who will have nothing to look forward to (along with myself).

Oh stop Ez you're listening to your friends whine too much.

Sure, someone in Legendary set gear will have an advantage over someone in plain white gear, but they can catch up.

Sure, a vr16 player will have an advantage over a level 18 player, but they can catch up.

Currently you, myself, or any new player will never catch up to anyone with 1600cp. That and the game is not balanced for 1600cp, let alone 3600!

Ezareth

Xeven wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I'm not making this argument for *my* sake, once again. I'm not going to lose *anything* come Osrinium because I'll just be hitting 500CPs when it is released. It won't make me any weaker but I don't like what it represents to many of my friends who will have nothing to look forward to (along with myself).

Oh stop Ez you're listening to your friends whine too much.

Sure, someone in Legendary set gear will have an advantage over someone in plain white gear, but they can catch up.

Sure, a vr16 player will have an advantage over a level 18 player, but they can catch up.

Currently, you, myself, or any new player will never catch up to anyone with 1600cp. That and the game is not balanced for 3000cp!

I don't have any friends in the 1600cp range although I've played with a couple and fought against a couple who have.

My friends are all in the 400-800CP range, with most of them at 500+. These are guys (and girls) like me who have just played the game to play the game. We PvP, we do the occasional Undaunted Daily (I'm still not max undaunted on any of my chars) and we basically are just solid *active* players who have all been around since the launch of the game.

These are the guys who are being hurt by the cap (at 500). The most active players who have been the biggest supporters of ZoS and ESO since the launch of the game.

On a personal level I'm completely fine with a cap of 500. It will actually be somewhat of a relief for me to be able to step away from the game for a couple of months to play some other games that I've had shelved up until now. Many of my friends dont really care to play other games right now though and this is something that impacts them quite a bit more.

As I said, I'm fine with whatever, but I think this is one of the worst choices the could have been made to balance the CP system out of months of many players giving some great suggestions. As I termed it earlier, it is a "ZoS Bandaid". Cure the symptom, not the problem.

Ishammael

Ezareth wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I'm not making this argument for *my* sake, once again. I'm not going to lose *anything* come Osrinium because I'll just be hitting 500CPs when it is released. It won't make me any weaker but I don't like what it represents to many of my friends who will have nothing to look forward to (along with myself).

Oh stop Ez you're listening to your friends whine too much.

Sure, someone in Legendary set gear will have an advantage over someone in plain white gear, but they can catch up.

Sure, a vr16 player will have an advantage over a level 18 player, but they can catch up.

Currently, you, myself, or any new player will never catch up to anyone with 1600cp. That and the game is not balanced for 3000cp!

I don't have any friends in the 1600cp range although I've played with a couple and fought against a couple who have.

My friends are all in the 400-800CP range, with most of them at 500+. These are guys (and girls) like me who have just played the game to play the game. We PvP, we do the occasional Undaunted Daily (I'm still not max undaunted on any of my chars) and we basically are just solid *active* players who have all been around since the launch of the game.

These are the guys who are being hurt by the cap (at 500). The most active players who have been the biggest supporters of ZoS and ESO since the launch of the game.

On a personal level I'm completely fine with a cap of 500. It will actually be somewhat of a relief for me to be able to step away from the game for a couple of months to play some other games that I've had shelved up until now. Many of my friends dont really care to play other games right now though and this is something that impacts them quite a bit more.

As I said, I'm fine with whatever, but I think this is one of the worst choices the could have been made to balance the CP system out of months of many players giving some great suggestions. As I termed it earlier, it is a "ZoS Bandaid". Cure the symptom, not the problem.

@Ezareth you need to get on PTS and see how much CPs cost now. Trust me, yall that have the most when this goes live won, by a long shot.

tordr86b16_ESO

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I don't usually talk numbers, but here's some to chew on with regards to the number of champion points players have. The number of players that are going to be affected by the cap is very, very small.

• Average CP on PC - 93
• Average CP on PS4 - 46
• Average CP on XB1 - 44

I have above 300

Xeven

Ezareth wrote: »

On a personal level I'm completely fine with a cap of 500. It will actually be somewhat of a relief for me to be able to step away from the game for a couple of months to play some other games that I've had shelved up until now. Many of my friends dont really care to play other games right now though and this is something that impacts them quite a bit more.

As I said, I'm fine with whatever, but I think this is one of the worst choices the could have been made to balance the CP system out of months of many players giving some great suggestions. As I termed it earlier, it is a "ZoS Bandaid". Cure the symptom, not the problem.

I can agree with this. They should have had a cap or a catch up mechanic from the beginning. It is unfortunate that players who had "naturally" high CP will have to adjust their builds a bit, but it is for the best.

The main thing is like you said, I can take a break from the game for a month and not have to worry about all the CWC farmers. I can catch up now.

Ezareth

Ishammael wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I'm not making this argument for *my* sake, once again. I'm not going to lose *anything* come Osrinium because I'll just be hitting 500CPs when it is released. It won't make me any weaker but I don't like what it represents to many of my friends who will have nothing to look forward to (along with myself).

Oh stop Ez you're listening to your friends whine too much.

Sure, someone in Legendary set gear will have an advantage over someone in plain white gear, but they can catch up.

Sure, a vr16 player will have an advantage over a level 18 player, but they can catch up.

Currently, you, myself, or any new player will never catch up to anyone with 1600cp. That and the game is not balanced for 3000cp!

I don't have any friends in the 1600cp range although I've played with a couple and fought against a couple who have.

My friends are all in the 400-800CP range, with most of them at 500+. These are guys (and girls) like me who have just played the game to play the game. We PvP, we do the occasional Undaunted Daily (I'm still not max undaunted on any of my chars) and we basically are just solid *active* players who have all been around since the launch of the game.

These are the guys who are being hurt by the cap (at 500). The most active players who have been the biggest supporters of ZoS and ESO since the launch of the game.

On a personal level I'm completely fine with a cap of 500. It will actually be somewhat of a relief for me to be able to step away from the game for a couple of months to play some other games that I've had shelved up until now. Many of my friends dont really care to play other games right now though and this is something that impacts them quite a bit more.

As I said, I'm fine with whatever, but I think this is one of the worst choices the could have been made to balance the CP system out of months of many players giving some great suggestions. As I termed it earlier, it is a "ZoS Bandaid". Cure the symptom, not the problem.

@Ezareth you need to get on PTS and see how much CPs cost now. Trust me, yall that have the most when this goes live won, by a long shot.

Right now 441 CPs is 512,455, 442 CPs is 513544.

I'm assuming this calculation is going to be changed when the seasons change, otherwise the guys sitting at 1900 CPs right now are going to be sitting very pretty.

LordSemaj

Ezareth wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I'm not making this argument for *my* sake, once again. I'm not going to lose *anything* come Osrinium because I'll just be hitting 500CPs when it is released. It won't make me any weaker but I don't like what it represents to many of my friends who will have nothing to look forward to (along with myself).

Oh stop Ez you're listening to your friends whine too much.

Sure, someone in Legendary set gear will have an advantage over someone in plain white gear, but they can catch up.

Sure, a vr16 player will have an advantage over a level 18 player, but they can catch up.

Currently, you, myself, or any new player will never catch up to anyone with 1600cp. That and the game is not balanced for 3000cp!

I don't have any friends in the 1600cp range although I've played with a couple and fought against a couple who have.

My friends are all in the 400-800CP range, with most of them at 500+. These are guys (and girls) like me who have just played the game to play the game. We PvP, we do the occasional Undaunted Daily (I'm still not max undaunted on any of my chars) and we basically are just solid *active* players who have all been around since the launch of the game.

These are the guys who are being hurt by the cap (at 500). The most active players who have been the biggest supporters of ZoS and ESO since the launch of the game.

On a personal level I'm completely fine with a cap of 500. It will actually be somewhat of a relief for me to be able to step away from the game for a couple of months to play some other games that I've had shelved up until now. Many of my friends dont really care to play other games right now though and this is something that impacts them quite a bit more.

As I said, I'm fine with whatever, but I think this is one of the worst choices the could have been made to balance the CP system out of months of many players giving some great suggestions. As I termed it earlier, it is a "ZoS Bandaid". Cure the symptom, not the problem.

@Ezareth you need to get on PTS and see how much CPs cost now. Trust me, yall that have the most when this goes live won, by a long shot.

Right now 441 CPs is 512,455, 442 CPs is 513544.

I'm assuming this calculation is going to be changed when the seasons change, otherwise the guys sitting at 1900 CPs right now are going to be sitting very pretty.

Pffff, like they'll stay at 1900 for long. If the developers just announced that they're going to make CPs harder to get, wouldn't they schedule vacation, cancel Christmas, rush to the cash shop, pop a few xp pots, and get to 3600 or as close to at all costs before it happens? Of course they would, its the mindset that comes from wanting to be the very best, like no one ever was.

Jura23

Personally Im not too crazy about this change since I dont mind fighting ppl with more CPs than me. I accept when I meet somebody who worked hard for his better stats that I have to compensate in some other way like being smarter, having more situational awarness or just grouping up. I think everybody being more or less equally powerful will make it more boring, but some ppl call it "sklil based".

Anyway, if this is what ppl want, then Im like whatever since I have only 103 CPs, so the cap wont affect me anytime soon.

Xeven

Jura23 wrote: »

Personally Im not too crazy about this change since I dont mind fighting ppl with more CPs than me.

Fighting someone with 400 more cp than you is much different than 1200 more. You simply will not have the firepower to kill them no matter how smart you are, or how much situational awareness you have. You really don't understand until you have tried it.

The gap was getting larger, the number of players grinding 1600+ was growing, and the game was never balanced for 1600cp let alone 3600. This cap is an extremely good thing.

Ishammael

Ezareth wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I'm not making this argument for *my* sake, once again. I'm not going to lose *anything* come Osrinium because I'll just be hitting 500CPs when it is released. It won't make me any weaker but I don't like what it represents to many of my friends who will have nothing to look forward to (along with myself).

Oh stop Ez you're listening to your friends whine too much.

Sure, someone in Legendary set gear will have an advantage over someone in plain white gear, but they can catch up.

Sure, a vr16 player will have an advantage over a level 18 player, but they can catch up.

Currently, you, myself, or any new player will never catch up to anyone with 1600cp. That and the game is not balanced for 3000cp!

I don't have any friends in the 1600cp range although I've played with a couple and fought against a couple who have.

My friends are all in the 400-800CP range, with most of them at 500+. These are guys (and girls) like me who have just played the game to play the game. We PvP, we do the occasional Undaunted Daily (I'm still not max undaunted on any of my chars) and we basically are just solid *active* players who have all been around since the launch of the game.

These are the guys who are being hurt by the cap (at 500). The most active players who have been the biggest supporters of ZoS and ESO since the launch of the game.

On a personal level I'm completely fine with a cap of 500. It will actually be somewhat of a relief for me to be able to step away from the game for a couple of months to play some other games that I've had shelved up until now. Many of my friends dont really care to play other games right now though and this is something that impacts them quite a bit more.

As I said, I'm fine with whatever, but I think this is one of the worst choices the could have been made to balance the CP system out of months of many players giving some great suggestions. As I termed it earlier, it is a "ZoS Bandaid". Cure the symptom, not the problem.

@Ezareth you need to get on PTS and see how much CPs cost now. Trust me, yall that have the most when this goes live won, by a long shot.

Right now 441 CPs is 512,455, 442 CPs is 513544.

I'm assuming this calculation is going to be changed when the seasons change, otherwise the guys sitting at 1900 CPs right now are going to be sitting very pretty.

It take 390k Xp to get the 331st CP.

With these numbers, all of the previous discussion is moot. Those that have already amassed CPs above cap -- while they don't get immediate benefit -- get the advantage of gaining them at dramatically lowered XP amount. That is, unless they normalized to total XP to get to particular CP amount.

For me, sitting in the 300s range, it will take even more effort to get to 501 than previous. Basically, I should be grinding my tail off right now.

EDIT: @ZOS_GinaBruno Y'all need to recalculate how many CPs everyone have given the new formulas. Otherwise this scaling is really broken.

Xeven

Ishammael wrote: »

It take 390k Xp to get the 331st CP.

With these numbers, all of the previous discussion is moot. Those that have already amassed CPs above cap -- while they don't get immediate benefit -- get the advantage of gaining them at dramatically lowered XP amount. That is, unless they normalized to total XP to get to particular CP amount.

For me, sitting in the 300s range, it will take even more effort to get to 501 than previous. Basically, I should be grinding my tail off right now.

Agreed. The cap on xp per cp should be 500k per season. If you have less than the cap, you should need less xp, otherwise there is no catch up mechanic. It's actually a fall further behind mechanic.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

Ezareth

Ishammael wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I'm not making this argument for *my* sake, once again. I'm not going to lose *anything* come Osrinium because I'll just be hitting 500CPs when it is released. It won't make me any weaker but I don't like what it represents to many of my friends who will have nothing to look forward to (along with myself).

Oh stop Ez you're listening to your friends whine too much.

Sure, someone in Legendary set gear will have an advantage over someone in plain white gear, but they can catch up.

Sure, a vr16 player will have an advantage over a level 18 player, but they can catch up.

Currently, you, myself, or any new player will never catch up to anyone with 1600cp. That and the game is not balanced for 3000cp!

I don't have any friends in the 1600cp range although I've played with a couple and fought against a couple who have.

My friends are all in the 400-800CP range, with most of them at 500+. These are guys (and girls) like me who have just played the game to play the game. We PvP, we do the occasional Undaunted Daily (I'm still not max undaunted on any of my chars) and we basically are just solid *active* players who have all been around since the launch of the game.

These are the guys who are being hurt by the cap (at 500). The most active players who have been the biggest supporters of ZoS and ESO since the launch of the game.

On a personal level I'm completely fine with a cap of 500. It will actually be somewhat of a relief for me to be able to step away from the game for a couple of months to play some other games that I've had shelved up until now. Many of my friends dont really care to play other games right now though and this is something that impacts them quite a bit more.

As I said, I'm fine with whatever, but I think this is one of the worst choices the could have been made to balance the CP system out of months of many players giving some great suggestions. As I termed it earlier, it is a "ZoS Bandaid". Cure the symptom, not the problem.

@Ezareth you need to get on PTS and see how much CPs cost now. Trust me, yall that have the most when this goes live won, by a long shot.

Right now 441 CPs is 512,455, 442 CPs is 513544.

I'm assuming this calculation is going to be changed when the seasons change, otherwise the guys sitting at 1900 CPs right now are going to be sitting very pretty.

It take 390k Xp to get the 331st CP.

With these numbers, all of the previous discussion is moot. Those that have already amassed CPs above cap -- while they don't get immediate benefit -- get the advantage of gaining them at dramatically lowered XP amount. That is, unless they normalized to total XP to get to particular CP amount.

For me, sitting in the 300s range, it will take even more effort to get to 501 than previous. Basically, I should be grinding my tail off right now.

I agree.

I'm going to make certain if by the time November second rolls around I'm not at 500 CPs I'm going to begin grinding until I'm at 500 CPs.

Typical ZoS solution: Try to neutralize the benefits of CP Grinders.....Promotes CP Grinding.

What would you expect? What do you think happens when you introduce a new tax on something at a future date? Everyone goes out and buys the hell out of it.

I'm fine with a catchup mechanic and even stinting the growth of players far above the cap....but inhibiting the CP gains of players who are under the cap? This reeks of communism.

As @Soulac would say:

LordSemaj

Xeven wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

It take 390k Xp to get the 331st CP.

With these numbers, all of the previous discussion is moot. Those that have already amassed CPs above cap -- while they don't get immediate benefit -- get the advantage of gaining them at dramatically lowered XP amount. That is, unless they normalized to total XP to get to particular CP amount.

For me, sitting in the 300s range, it will take even more effort to get to 501 than previous. Basically, I should be grinding my tail off right now.

Ishammael wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I'm not making this argument for *my* sake, once again. I'm not going to lose *anything* come Osrinium because I'll just be hitting 500CPs when it is released. It won't make me any weaker but I don't like what it represents to many of my friends who will have nothing to look forward to (along with myself).

Oh stop Ez you're listening to your friends whine too much.

Sure, someone in Legendary set gear will have an advantage over someone in plain white gear, but they can catch up.

Sure, a vr16 player will have an advantage over a level 18 player, but they can catch up.

Currently, you, myself, or any new player will never catch up to anyone with 1600cp. That and the game is not balanced for 3000cp!

I don't have any friends in the 1600cp range although I've played with a couple and fought against a couple who have.

My friends are all in the 400-800CP range, with most of them at 500+. These are guys (and girls) like me who have just played the game to play the game. We PvP, we do the occasional Undaunted Daily (I'm still not max undaunted on any of my chars) and we basically are just solid *active* players who have all been around since the launch of the game.

These are the guys who are being hurt by the cap (at 500). The most active players who have been the biggest supporters of ZoS and ESO since the launch of the game.

On a personal level I'm completely fine with a cap of 500. It will actually be somewhat of a relief for me to be able to step away from the game for a couple of months to play some other games that I've had shelved up until now. Many of my friends dont really care to play other games right now though and this is something that impacts them quite a bit more.

As I said, I'm fine with whatever, but I think this is one of the worst choices the could have been made to balance the CP system out of months of many players giving some great suggestions. As I termed it earlier, it is a "ZoS Bandaid". Cure the symptom, not the problem.

@Ezareth you need to get on PTS and see how much CPs cost now. Trust me, yall that have the most when this goes live won, by a long shot.

Right now 441 CPs is 512,455, 442 CPs is 513544.

I'm assuming this calculation is going to be changed when the seasons change, otherwise the guys sitting at 1900 CPs right now are going to be sitting very pretty.

It take 390k Xp to get the 331st CP.

With these numbers, all of the previous discussion is moot. Those that have already amassed CPs above cap -- while they don't get immediate benefit -- get the advantage of gaining them at dramatically lowered XP amount. That is, unless they normalized to total XP to get to particular CP amount.

For me, sitting in the 300s range, it will take even more effort to get to 501 than previous. Basically, I should be grinding my tail off right now.

EDIT: @ZOS_GinaBruno Y'all need to recalculate how many CPs everyone have given the new formulas. Otherwise this scaling is really broken.

Agreed. The cap on xp per cp should be 500k per season. If you have less than the cap, you should need less xp, otherwise there is no catch up mechanic. It's actually a fall further behind mechanic.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

That's not the case necessarily... when the next season comes around (with a new DLC surrounding it), they can introduce mobs, zones, dungeons, quests that reward more XP than other areas. Which funnels people toward the new DLC stuff and "encourages" buying the new expansion without screwing everyone else out of the increased cap. So even if it takes 2 million to get a single CP, it might be really easy to get 2 million XP in the new content.

There's already signs they're converting ESO into more of a standard theme park. Every time a level bump happens, you funnel players into the new areas and make the old ones worthless.

Soulac

Ezareth wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I'm not making this argument for *my* sake, once again. I'm not going to lose *anything* come Osrinium because I'll just be hitting 500CPs when it is released. It won't make me any weaker but I don't like what it represents to many of my friends who will have nothing to look forward to (along with myself).

Oh stop Ez you're listening to your friends whine too much.

Sure, someone in Legendary set gear will have an advantage over someone in plain white gear, but they can catch up.

Sure, a vr16 player will have an advantage over a level 18 player, but they can catch up.

Currently, you, myself, or any new player will never catch up to anyone with 1600cp. That and the game is not balanced for 3000cp!

I don't have any friends in the 1600cp range although I've played with a couple and fought against a couple who have.

My friends are all in the 400-800CP range, with most of them at 500+. These are guys (and girls) like me who have just played the game to play the game. We PvP, we do the occasional Undaunted Daily (I'm still not max undaunted on any of my chars) and we basically are just solid *active* players who have all been around since the launch of the game.

These are the guys who are being hurt by the cap (at 500). The most active players who have been the biggest supporters of ZoS and ESO since the launch of the game.

On a personal level I'm completely fine with a cap of 500. It will actually be somewhat of a relief for me to be able to step away from the game for a couple of months to play some other games that I've had shelved up until now. Many of my friends dont really care to play other games right now though and this is something that impacts them quite a bit more.

As I said, I'm fine with whatever, but I think this is one of the worst choices the could have been made to balance the CP system out of months of many players giving some great suggestions. As I termed it earlier, it is a "ZoS Bandaid". Cure the symptom, not the problem.

@Ezareth you need to get on PTS and see how much CPs cost now. Trust me, yall that have the most when this goes live won, by a long shot.

Right now 441 CPs is 512,455, 442 CPs is 513544.

I'm assuming this calculation is going to be changed when the seasons change, otherwise the guys sitting at 1900 CPs right now are going to be sitting very pretty.

It take 390k Xp to get the 331st CP.

With these numbers, all of the previous discussion is moot. Those that have already amassed CPs above cap -- while they don't get immediate benefit -- get the advantage of gaining them at dramatically lowered XP amount. That is, unless they normalized to total XP to get to particular CP amount.

For me, sitting in the 300s range, it will take even more effort to get to 501 than previous. Basically, I should be grinding my tail off right now.

I agree.

I'm going to make certain if by the time November second rolls around I'm not at 500 CPs I'm going to begin grinding until I'm at 500 CPs.

Typical ZoS solution: Try to neutralize the benefits of CP Grinders.....Promotes CP Grinding.

What would you expect? What do you think happens when you introduce a new tax on something at a future date? Everyone goes out and buys the hell out of it.

I'm fine with a catchup mechanic and even stinting the growth of players far above the cap....but inhibiting the CP gains of players who are under the cap? This reeks of communism.

As @Soulac would say:

Wollust

Wtb lol button for all those having to earn more exp than now to get to the cap.
And for myself and the millions of exp I need to get a single CP in the future.

monkeymystic

Ezareth wrote: »

Since @ZOS_Alex completely neutered a PVP oriented discussion and closed our CP thread in order to funnel us back to "The Barrens Forum" that is General, I'm going to rip my most poignant points from the Alliance War forum.

A V14 player at the launch of 1.6 that earned 100K experience a day would be sitting at 286 CPs right now. Most active skilled players earn 100K exp in about a half hour of PvPing or doing PvE content (or 10 minutes of grinding).

When Osrinium is launched on November 2nd, every original V14 as of 1.6 who has averaged 410,000 Experience per day will already be at cap. For me this is 2 hours of PvP a day without grinding and without experience pots.

I have 430 CPs. I took a month off the game and lost a good bit of enlightened CPs. The vast majority of my CPs came exclusively from PvP. The majority of my friends are far beyond my CPs and most of my guildies have at least as many CPs.

The entire premise of the CP system was to give the MOST active players who have already done everything in the game some small sense of accomplishment for doing things in the game. If you think back to every RPG game you've ever played like Skyrim for example you'll find that once you did everything and stopped improving your character you likely quit playing the game.

The CP system was meant to give hardcore players something to work towards. Now when the next patch hits what interest will we have in running our friends through a Vet dungeon? We'll acquire the best Gear in Osrinium in 2 or 3 weeks and then what will there be to do for the next 3-4 months while waiting on the next content? Why would we even bother subscribing to the game any more? We all have max crafters, max CPs, and a boatload of Crowns to buy the next 3-4 DLC packs if we choose.

I actually quit the game for 3 months at the end of 1.5 because the game was stale and boring. PvP hadn't changed in a year and I'd already done everything. I was Emperor for almost a month and had my fill of every aspect of PvP. I came back for 1.6 because it brought a fundamental change to the game. No softcaps and the CP system. I've always loved the concept of CPs....but I hated the implementation of them. There are many ways out there they could have headed the current issue of CPs off at the pass but they chose to address the problem too late. So now we're dealing with yet another ZoS bandaid.

I'm not going to say whether or not I'll quit, because I always try and test something before I pass judgement but it's really not looking good. I'd say the probability is extremely high since I'll be at CP cap by launch I'll play the content for a week until Starcraft II and Fallout 4 comes out and then play the hell out of those until I'm bored. Whether or not I come back will highly depend on ZoS's future changes but if you've ever played an MMO seriously you know that the addiction is the primary reason that people keep playing them. Taking a long break is the easiest way to break that addiction, and if the game itself has nothing to draw you back you don't come back.

This^

501 cap is simply too low for PC players, and the whole cap system is going to force dedicated players to quit and lose interest in the game (i already stopped my subscription now because of this change, and I feel less interest in playing knowing what is incoming)

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

LordSemaj wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

It take 390k Xp to get the 331st CP.

With these numbers, all of the previous discussion is moot. Those that have already amassed CPs above cap -- while they don't get immediate benefit -- get the advantage of gaining them at dramatically lowered XP amount. That is, unless they normalized to total XP to get to particular CP amount.

For me, sitting in the 300s range, it will take even more effort to get to 501 than previous. Basically, I should be grinding my tail off right now.

Ishammael wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I'm not making this argument for *my* sake, once again. I'm not going to lose *anything* come Osrinium because I'll just be hitting 500CPs when it is released. It won't make me any weaker but I don't like what it represents to many of my friends who will have nothing to look forward to (along with myself).

Oh stop Ez you're listening to your friends whine too much.

Sure, someone in Legendary set gear will have an advantage over someone in plain white gear, but they can catch up.

Sure, a vr16 player will have an advantage over a level 18 player, but they can catch up.

Currently, you, myself, or any new player will never catch up to anyone with 1600cp. That and the game is not balanced for 3000cp!

I don't have any friends in the 1600cp range although I've played with a couple and fought against a couple who have.

My friends are all in the 400-800CP range, with most of them at 500+. These are guys (and girls) like me who have just played the game to play the game. We PvP, we do the occasional Undaunted Daily (I'm still not max undaunted on any of my chars) and we basically are just solid *active* players who have all been around since the launch of the game.

These are the guys who are being hurt by the cap (at 500). The most active players who have been the biggest supporters of ZoS and ESO since the launch of the game.

On a personal level I'm completely fine with a cap of 500. It will actually be somewhat of a relief for me to be able to step away from the game for a couple of months to play some other games that I've had shelved up until now. Many of my friends dont really care to play other games right now though and this is something that impacts them quite a bit more.

As I said, I'm fine with whatever, but I think this is one of the worst choices the could have been made to balance the CP system out of months of many players giving some great suggestions. As I termed it earlier, it is a "ZoS Bandaid". Cure the symptom, not the problem.

@Ezareth you need to get on PTS and see how much CPs cost now. Trust me, yall that have the most when this goes live won, by a long shot.

Right now 441 CPs is 512,455, 442 CPs is 513544.

I'm assuming this calculation is going to be changed when the seasons change, otherwise the guys sitting at 1900 CPs right now are going to be sitting very pretty.

It take 390k Xp to get the 331st CP.

With these numbers, all of the previous discussion is moot. Those that have already amassed CPs above cap -- while they don't get immediate benefit -- get the advantage of gaining them at dramatically lowered XP amount. That is, unless they normalized to total XP to get to particular CP amount.

For me, sitting in the 300s range, it will take even more effort to get to 501 than previous. Basically, I should be grinding my tail off right now.

EDIT: @ZOS_GinaBruno Y'all need to recalculate how many CPs everyone have given the new formulas. Otherwise this scaling is really broken.

Agreed. The cap on xp per cp should be 500k per season. If you have less than the cap, you should need less xp, otherwise there is no catch up mechanic. It's actually a fall further behind mechanic.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

That's not the case necessarily... when the next season comes around (with a new DLC surrounding it), they can introduce mobs, zones, dungeons, quests that reward more XP than other areas. Which funnels people toward the new DLC stuff and "encourages" buying the new expansion without screwing everyone else out of the increased cap. So even if it takes 2 million to get a single CP, it might be really easy to get 2 million XP in the new content.

There's already signs they're converting ESO into more of a standard theme park. Every time a level bump happens, you funnel players into the new areas and make the old ones worthless.

i completely agree. people are talking about exp as if its going to be constant. it won't.... if they add vr17-18, you will need more exp from mobs for those VRs. with the current fixed champ exp, the higher the level the mob the more experience and the faster the earnings. couple that with the increase of character power, the faster you gain champion points to the limit of the mob spawn. combine that with a better enlightenment system, and players will have less effort to close the gap. there will always BE a gap, the point should be to LESSEN the gap, and not STOP the gap from being produced.

this is shaping up to be exactly what i thought- either the cap will be too high and it won't help; or the cap will be too low and it will screw a lot of players.

seriously.... i mean the most common solution that most seem to agree with is that there needs to be a better, more refined catch up mechanism. i completely agree, the one now isn't as good as it could be, without buying exp pots. why don't they listen to THAT!! there is clear common ground and good easier fix, rather than trying to artificially slow people down and potentially punish consistent players! so speed up the "offliners" that most are recommending.

ill also say it again.... with IC you adjusted the game AROUND the champion system as opposed to the opposite. now you further pushed players into "the grind" to keep pace with the new mechanics that are based on current champion point capabilities (you should have left it and modified new content).

Enodoc

xaraan wrote: »

btw, I need 1.9 million xp for one champion point in the new system with diminishing returns

do we really even need a cap at that point? lol

Isn't that more than double the amount needed for a VR? I didn't expect them to go anywhere near that high.

@xaraan How many CPs do you already have?

Enodoc

Enodoc wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

btw, I need 1.9 million xp for one champion point in the new system with diminishing returns

do we really even need a cap at that point? lol

Isn't that more than double the amount needed for a VR? I didn't expect them to go anywhere near that high.
@xaraan How many CPs do you already have?

On that note... @ZOS_RichLambert don't let the problem with how long it takes to get VRs repeat itself for CPs. Then you'll just end up with the same problem all over again.

Manoekin

The way I see it a cap was coming or extreme diminishing returns, and according to ZOS the goal from CP was to make it so casual players would gain an average of 1 each day. A lot of people complaining play far more than a casual player while claiming to only play a "fair amount".

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

Manoekin wrote: »

The way I see it a cap was coming or extreme diminishing returns, and according to ZOS the goal from CP was to make it so casual players would gain an average of 1 each day. A lot of people complaining play far more than a casual player while claiming to only play a "fair amount".

i laughed when i saw them say that lol. i laugh still... until they added exp pots to the game. it got less funny then.

Etaniel

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

The truth is that 501 is fine. Yes there are quite a few above that or will be before it launches. But those above that limit lose exactly zero of their points and are still at an advantage over the vast majority of players.

Additionally, they will have banked any points above this limit at the cheaper to earn level instead of the increasing cost.

ZOS_RichLambert mod

I don't usually talk numbers, but here's some to chew on with regards to the number of champion points players have. The number of players that are going to be affected by the cap is very, very small.
Average CP on PC - 93
Average CP on PS4 - 46
Average CP on XB1 - 44


These are the numbers. Vet level accounts that have logged in and played within the last 30 days. This number tells us there are a lot of people who recently bought or only play a few times a week.
.

What this actually illustrates is that people aren't loyal to the game. If every one had played a bit since B2P the average would be much higher.

B2P came out on march 16 on PC, 3 and a half months before consoles. = roughly 105 days worth of enlightenment. People who've averaged 30 min a day since then (3 and half hour a week, anyone who can't play that much should ask himself what the heck he's doing on an mmo tbh), those people should have 105 more cp on average than console players. We have less than half of that number.

These numbers do not reflect the reality of active PvPers. People who play for one month and leave should not be the target audience, it should be aimed to those who are loyal and who spend their time and money on the game.