[Patch Notes] Champion Point cap will be set at 501

Tyr

xaraan wrote: »

Tyr wrote: »

monkeymystic wrote: »

Cap is simply too low almost one year after CP patch launced for PC players.

They are giving longterm players the middle finger, and will 100% guaranteed lose lots of subs and longtimers over this if it goes live.

Huge fail in other words, and my guild is already talking about other mmos after orsinum AKA "SLEEP MODE PATCH" launches to send all their subs and longtimers away from their game.

Ridiculous. The 500Cp Cap will affect less than .1% of their player base. a few hundred players at most out of the hundreds of thousands active.

I find it hard to believe it's that small if you look at players that play the game several times a week and actually care about being competative.

What the hell are you talking about? Of course if you took a subdivision of players that's more active you'll get a higher number. Why should ZOS care about only a part of their player base and not the vast majority. Further, even if you took players that play "several times a week" that would only shift the curve over about 1 standard deviation and 501 CP would still only effect less than 1% of that sample.

Also, I don't know what you mean by "care about being competitive" but most people play MMO's solo and never do endgame content. Why should ZOS ignore the vast majority of it's player base and take into account only people that care about being competitive? Who cares what the numbers are for those players. They are as relevant as if you took the numbers for players that only logged on once in 30 days.

FENGRUSH

LordSemaj wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Noobie, CP grinder and ZoS

Luke = the noob, darth = the cp grinder, ZOS = Tbagging ? FENGRUSH is confused!

No... the teabagger is the CP grinder and ZOS is Darth Vader.

The image is surprisingly accurate. ZOS has force choked and sabered the grinders to protect the newbies.

Yes I get that - but its a bit silly and appropriately describes a large majority of players who simply point to CP as to why they lost. There are a fair amount of players with more CP than me and they will end up dying all the same.

Players will blame CP for their defeat, and in some drastic cases on the low end, this can be accurate. But then theres a lot of people who wont see any difference in their win/loss ratio PvPing with a CP cap in place. Youd probably consider me a CP grinder when I make 1-2 CP a day just logging in and doing only PvP. Additionally, I dont Tbag people! But if youd like to put the theory to test, PM me and we can setup a 1v1, Ill take your CP or lower and we can duel it out a bit and you can prove me wrong!

xaraan

Ezareth wrote: »

Since @ZOS_Alex completely neutered a PVP oriented discussion and closed our CP thread in order to funnel us back to "The Barrens Forum" that is General, I'm going to rip my most poignant points from the Alliance War forum.

A V14 player at the launch of 1.6 that earned 100K experience a day would be sitting at 286 CPs right now. Most active skilled players earn 100K exp in about a half hour of PvPing or doing PvE content (or 10 minutes of grinding).

When Osrinium is launched on November 2nd, every original V14 as of 1.6 who has averaged 410,000 Experience per day will already be at cap. For me this is 2 hours of PvP a day without grinding and without experience pots.

I have 430 CPs. I took a month off the game and lost a good bit of enlightened CPs. The vast majority of my CPs came exclusively from PvP. The majority of my friends are far beyond my CPs and most of my guildies have at least as many CPs.

The entire premise of the CP system was to give the MOST active players who have already done everything in the game some small sense of accomplishment for doing things in the game. If you think back to every RPG game you've ever played like Skyrim for example you'll find that once you did everything and stopped improving your character you likely quit playing the game.

The CP system was meant to give hardcore players something to work towards. Now when the next patch hits what interest will we have in running our friends through a Vet dungeon? We'll acquire the best Gear in Osrinium in 2 or 3 weeks and then what will there be to do for the next 3-4 months while waiting on the next content? Why would we even bother subscribing to the game any more? We all have max crafters, max CPs, and a boatload of Crowns to buy the next 3-4 DLC packs if we choose.

I actually quit the game for 3 months at the end of 1.5 because the game was stale and boring. PvP hadn't changed in a year and I'd already done everything. I was Emperor for almost a month and had my fill of every aspect of PvP. I came back for 1.6 because it brought a fundamental change to the game. No softcaps and the CP system. I've always loved the concept of CPs....but I hated the implementation of them. There are many ways out there they could have headed the current issue of CPs off at the pass but they chose to address the problem too late. So now we're dealing with yet another ZoS bandaid.

I'm not going to say whether or not I'll quit, because I always try and test something before I pass judgement but it's really not looking good. I'd say the probability is extremely high since I'll be at CP cap by launch I'll play the content for a week until Starcraft II and Fallout 4 comes out and then play the hell out of those until I'm bored. Whether or not I come back will highly depend on ZoS's future changes but if you've ever played an MMO seriously you know that the addiction is the primary reason that people keep playing them. Taking a long break is the easiest way to break that addiction, and if the game itself has nothing to draw you back you don't come back.

well said

Mojomonkeyman

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Tyr wrote: »

monkeymystic wrote: »

Cap is simply too low almost one year after CP patch launced for PC players.

They are giving longterm players the middle finger, and will 100% guaranteed lose lots of subs and longtimers over this if it goes live.

Huge fail in other words, and my guild is already talking about other mmos after orsinum AKA "SLEEP MODE PATCH" launches to send all their subs and longtimers away from their game.

Ridiculous. The 500Cp Cap will affect less than .1% of their player base. a few hundred players at most out of the hundreds of thousands active.

90% of my friends already have 400+ CPs. The majority of the people I compete against and interacted with daily are in the 400-500+ range and will be capped by Osrinium launch.

The active player base is not *that* large.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that players like you and I, Ezareth, are highly undesired and are always going to be hated in this game. Not because of CP, but because we're good players.

Get your head out of your arse.

I'd really like to not think this way, but seeing as how I get rage telled about having "1k+ CP" quite often when I don't have anywhere near that and get other pretty nasty tells from players, it's the truth. There's a difference between players who choose to spend time learning the game and players who don't. And it has become more and more clear the more players are accusing others of killing them only because of champion points. There's a seething hatred for players who kill other players in this community and it's sad because what else is there to do in pvp besides killing other people? I've never been killed by someone and instantly thought to whisper them "eff you you c**t and go die filthy exploiter cp grinding p.o.s." etc etc.

Ehhh I get the same kind of stuff so I know what youre saying. Fought an AD emp the other day and he refused to fight without 20 other people that helped him get emp. double pretty much every stat and kill him in 1v1 only to be PMd about how he reported me for macroing and exploiting. Its embarrassing. Yet the catering to zergs continues and produces this kind of thing.

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Tyr wrote: »

monkeymystic wrote: »

Cap is simply too low almost one year after CP patch launced for PC players.

They are giving longterm players the middle finger, and will 100% guaranteed lose lots of subs and longtimers over this if it goes live.

Huge fail in other words, and my guild is already talking about other mmos after orsinum AKA "SLEEP MODE PATCH" launches to send all their subs and longtimers away from their game.

Ridiculous. The 500Cp Cap will affect less than .1% of their player base. a few hundred players at most out of the hundreds of thousands active.

90% of my friends already have 400+ CPs. The majority of the people I compete against and interacted with daily are in the 400-500+ range and will be capped by Osrinium launch.

The active player base is not *that* large.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that players like you and I, Ezareth, are highly undesired and are always going to be hated in this game. Not because of CP, but because we're good players. Right now people blame CPs for their downfalls (ignoring exactly how easy it is to obtain them. Hell, if I had wanted to grind I probably could have 1.5k+ CP by now lol), and will continue to find other reasons to blame for their lack of knowledge or ability to be effective in what they do.
I've been in TS plenty of times when you and @Suru are theory crafting for stamina builds and discussing the effectiveness of different abilities, Cinn and I have been in TS and have done the same for our magicka builds. We have learned where to effectively place CP, or what enchants are most effective, or what gear will work best, and how to balance sustain vs. damage in PvP. Players like us take the time to intricately plan out and test our builds. We will always be the players that are more successful than others because we have taken the time to learn the game and its skills/abilties/passives in and out.

People in this thread want players who have played since launch to sit back and be shoved in a corner, yet don't realize that their cries for "fairness" are hypocritical. Months of progression are being robbed from those of us who have spent time actively playing ZoS' game from the beginning, testing things, identifying bugs, and are the reason the game has gotten to this point because we have been loyal, yes, LOYAL from the start. The CP system was implemented to give players the progression we didn't have. I believe ZoS' best decision could be to cap CP, overall, at 1200 and call it good. That gives every single player a reasonable goal. Implement a catch-up system, allow players to reach 250 CP easily, and then have the same, normal progression from there that we have all had to deal with since the system was released. The issue I see with a majority of players right now is that they want free handouts. The CP system should not be a free-welfare program for you all, but I do agree that there is a need for a catch-up mechanic. But not both. Either cap CP seasonally, keeping the total at 3600, or cap CP total to 1200 and allow a catch-up mechanic. You should not be given both. We have all had to work for our CP, players behind should have to as well.

I want to vomit reading yours and Ezareth`s posts. I am seriously a bit disgusted by the self-rightiousness and over-inflated egos you guys display on these forums.

I think, you should write another essay on how you are god`s gift to gaming and how rocky the way was to become the heroes you are, completely unbiased too, of course! I recommend the reply to my post as the proper medium to do so, the opportunity is obvious, right?

"I really like to compete in Kungfu!....but not without my bazooka. If you take my bazooka away, I will quit Kungfu!"

Looks like you translate their posts in another way - I dont get that impression at all in reading it. They spend time working on the mechanics of the game and understanding because they strive to be good. These are the same players that produce builds that a large portion of the community will go visit to figure out how to fine tune their own builds and find out what they can do without having to put in the trial and error to do so.

Keep in mind there didnt used to be a CP system in place and players were all at the same V10 or V12 and fighting each other on equal ground. These same players made the same impact on the field, and frankly were even stronger before patches continuously put in mechanics to limit players strengths (damage reduction, AOE caps).

Dude, thats rubbish. If they were striving to become good or better, they wouldnt mind cp and just focus on developing as a player. I just can`t take any PvPer serious who likes to have and keep stat advantage over the people he fights in PvP. Thats not PvP. Thats PvE attitude, where you need the carrot. Give PvPers a valid, skillbased (!) leaderboard and they are mostly fine.

I have played PvP successfully since about 20 years and all the reliably good games which lasted have one thing in common - leveled or horicontally progressive playing field.

Edit: I have absolutely no desire to join the oh so popular self marketing train, but if you dig out the old best player EU posts, you will see I was one of the mentioned players of my class. If I recall right, Ezareth was very proud of his max regen/cost reduc "I can bolt over 9000 times" build at this time, not exactly what I consider good play. Basically he tried to be able to spam every ability as much as possible without having to make ressource related decisions.

The bolded portion is where youre missing my point - and thats ok. Im not looking to maintain a stat advantage over people. Im concerned that the system theyre putting in will literally cap a large portion of players actively playing this game for at least a couple hours a day. If you have been, you will hit this cap already. That is not grinding for a couple hours a day, that is just logging in, using your enlightenment, maybe some XP pots/scrolls, and doing PVE/PVP content with your friends.

People that grind hard are in the 1000-2000 CP range, and that is fine to have a cap placed on that, I get it. To bring it full circle, the point is to give these active players something to look forward to. The active base of guilds that I am all in will hit this cap or are there already. This average stat of 90 CP is so unbelievably misleading. Bear in mind, the difference between 500 CP - 800 CP doesnt really give you much more damage, it allows you to buff other things that make a much smaller difference.

So giving those players something is my first concern, the second and more important is to have an appropriate catchup. I want new players to catchup and bridge that gap, I want them to get on more equal footing. ZOS should want them logging in and playing through their content to do so as well, and buying scrolls from them to assist in this. If you think I want to keep an advantage over people with numbers and maintain the current system which drives away new players and keeps the game population low, you are just misinterpreting what Im saying. The ideas here are good, the numbers are not. They need to be adjusted, and catchup should be scaled. People who are legitimately new players need to catchup from 0-150 CP very fast, as these CPs are extremely important. Beyond 300 things begin to really drop off and it becomes more about defense and sustain rather than large jumps in damage per CP.

If they take away certain portions of the game at the ceiling, my concern is people will leave the game. I dont think its an unrealistic expectation. I simply want ZOS to revisit the numbers.

And I totally agree with almost everything you said. Give passionate players something! Now!

But dont make it a severe stat advantage. At least in PvP. Make it horizontal. Give alternative choices. Gear, skillz, morphs, whatever. And keep a max total power spread of 2-5% for those who have reasonably developed characters.

But to come here and say you play how you always did, always just trying to become a better player and then threatening to quit the game when the stat advantage is not even taken away, just capped for the health of the game for a period of time. That`s just hypocritical and not worthy to anyone who considers himself "professional" or "expert" at something.

phbell

FENGRUSH wrote: »

phbell wrote: »

I am wondering how many of the people complaining about CP are subscribers. "Enlightenment" (accelerated CP gain) is one of only a couple reasons to subscribe- shortened research times being the other. Once a player has researched all 9 traits the only reason to continue subscription was for the increased CP gain. Thank you ZOS for taking away the only remaining reason to give you $180/year. I think i'll spend the savings on a nice dinner for my wife.

Another great point. Probably will cancel my subscription too at this point. I didnt hold on to it for the minimal CP i gained out of it, because I didnt grind, I just PvPd. But honestly, if there is literally *nothing* to gain out of the sub, why would I sub for the next ongoing months for this sort of design? People make these threats and they usually just say 'yea yea theres a few mad' but you couldnt be more right that youre literally getting so little out of it. Ill take the crowns I gained from subbing, buy the expansion, and cancel my sub. Not because I want to stick it to ZOS, but because they arent offering a reason for it at all anymore.

Totally with ya. I won't rage quit. I am sure I will continue to enjoy the game. I'll just pay as i go and enjoy the savings.

LordSemaj

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Yes I get that - but its a bit silly and appropriately describes a large majority of players who simply point to CP as to why they lost. There are a fair amount of players with more CP than me and they will end up dying all the same.

I wouldn't jump the gun and assume it's solely about PVP. The CP can also make dungeons far easier, making new content either woefully simple or dreadfully difficult. There will always be bad players, as evident by the fact that you're beating players with more CP than you. Which is why there will also always be ways for casual players to gain more power. So the casuals can crush people with numbers. Like any RPG already allows. With enough numbers on your side, things get easier!

RPGs have never really been about fair play. If you were level 40 and found the end boss too hard, you just grind to level 50 and then crush him almost effortlessly. Or if you still suck, you grind to level 99, obtain the Ultimate Sword of Pwnage, max out your stats with Strength+3 potions you crafted from the dead remains of the Void Terror, and unlock the super secret Ultima spell that deals 9999 damage. If you still can't beat the boss, you might want to make sure your controller is plugged in.

That's what CP represents to casuals. More power. More ability to make up for their own lack of skill, which they often acknowledge (seriously, read some of the comments in this thread from casuals, they ADMIT they suck). Nerfs like this just bridge the time gap for players, they don't make them into better players and I don't think anyone believes it would. When that CP farmer still spends more time playing the game than with his own children, he's going to be better than you.

Ezareth

a.skelton92 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

There's one thing I don't get: why do players want rewards? Isn't the playing as such the purpose?

Basic game design theory. You have to build in an addiction component. The monkey pressing the lever for crack. The only way to achieve this is through giving players something to work towards that keeps them logging in.

To some players this is achievements, or maxing out their bank space, or research and crafting. To others it is hitting max level and having their "Best in Slot" gear setup. But to the hard core player who has been playing since launch, we already have all that and we'll have all our gear within a couple weeks of the launch of patch. The CP system was designed to give these kinds of players something to work towards...to keep us addicted and logging in every day.

Playing the game itself of course must be fun, but if are subtle enough with the reward system (ala crack rocks) most players will continue playing long after the novelty of the game itself wore off.

Maxing out their *** bank space? Are you shitting me? Jesus christ...

I actually had a lot of fun with that one. It was the driving factor behind me earning gold on the first 3 months of the game until I capped. I had all the horses, I had max bank space, max bag space, and 5 alts with level 12 in each crafting trade. Basically, I was gearing up for the long haul in this game. And yeah, as stupid as it sounds that was fun, it was progression in a sense. The crack rocks kept coming.

Once I hit Vet 10 though, and Got Emperor, and then Vet 12 and the best gear in the game and Alliance War Rank 10...the game quickly got boring for me. Nothing left to achieve, and the grind to Grand Overlord always seem more of a carebear title than anything meaningful in PvP to me so I never bothered with AP farming or farming in general.

Kronuxx

Truth be told, I think the cap of 501 is fine. If anything above 300 makes little difference, then what's the problem with a cap at 501?

"The amount of XP required to gain a Champion Point now scales with the number of total Champion Points you have.
If you don’t have any Champion Points, you will earn them very quickly.
If you have a lot of Champion Points, you will earn them slower."

In addition, I must be missing the point in people complaining here but isn't the above quote a good thing? I mean, it makes sense that people with less champion points should earn them more quickly than those with more. Does no one here play D3 at all? You guys do realize that this Champion Point system is basically a direct rip off from the Paragon leveling system from D3. In D3 it is extremely easy for any new player to compete and do well with any of the older established players because leveling your Paragon level was based on the current level. The higher you are, the more difficult, and the lower you are the more quickly and easily it was to gain exp. At this current state ZOS' CP progression is horrid. However I feel this new logistical system they are implementing in PTS, is leagues better than what we have now. I only wish they did it sooner rather than later.

AhPook_Is_Here

FENGRUSH wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Noobie, CP grinder and ZoS

Luke = the noob, darth = the cp grinder, ZOS = Tbagging ? FENGRUSH is confused!

Though nobody signed it; art should be many things to many people. I can accept that interpretation.

Tyr

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Some people seem to be confused about what the cap is meant to achieve, who it targets, and who it benefits. Basically if you play the game for a few hours everyday, you're likely going to be near or at cap everytime they raise it. Thats kind of the point.

Yes, that's right. However, the number of players who "play a few hours everyday" is still very, very small compared to the average who play less than 10 hours per week.

Ezareth

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Tyr wrote: »

monkeymystic wrote: »

Cap is simply too low almost one year after CP patch launced for PC players.

They are giving longterm players the middle finger, and will 100% guaranteed lose lots of subs and longtimers over this if it goes live.

Huge fail in other words, and my guild is already talking about other mmos after orsinum AKA "SLEEP MODE PATCH" launches to send all their subs and longtimers away from their game.

Ridiculous. The 500Cp Cap will affect less than .1% of their player base. a few hundred players at most out of the hundreds of thousands active.

90% of my friends already have 400+ CPs. The majority of the people I compete against and interacted with daily are in the 400-500+ range and will be capped by Osrinium launch.

The active player base is not *that* large.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that players like you and I, Ezareth, are highly undesired and are always going to be hated in this game. Not because of CP, but because we're good players.

Get your head out of your arse.

I'd really like to not think this way, but seeing as how I get rage telled about having "1k+ CP" quite often when I don't have anywhere near that and get other pretty nasty tells from players, it's the truth. There's a difference between players who choose to spend time learning the game and players who don't. And it has become more and more clear the more players are accusing others of killing them only because of champion points. There's a seething hatred for players who kill other players in this community and it's sad because what else is there to do in pvp besides killing other people? I've never been killed by someone and instantly thought to whisper them "eff you you c**t and go die filthy exploiter cp grinding p.o.s." etc etc.

I was actually *Banned* in this game for "Hacking" because the players that I wrecked daily (in 1.5) continuously reported me for hacking because they had no idea what I was doing and hated me too much to bother asking and ZoS finally listened to them and followed through with a ban with no evidence.

I also get regular tells about being a no life CP-grinder, using exploits and hacks, Macros (lol) and all sorts of nonsense.

It's the main reason these forums (in particular general) have become toxic for me. People who don't have 2 years of time in the game come around and think they're top dog, get their arses handed to them and the only explanation is something other than themselves. It gets pretty infuriating and Bee and I aren't even uncommon in the PvP community for this kind of harrassment.

95% of the people who rage tell me instantly block me because they know deep down inside their accusations are wrong and can't handle the stark truth.

Anyone who knows me in game or has ever whispered me in game knows that I'm not an "Elitist" or an ass, I'm very cordial to random people who ask me questions and are respectful. If you look through the majority of my god knows how many thousand posts on these forums you'll notice most of the time is spent explaining mechanics to people, reporting bugs, or participating in balance discussions.

When I see all these people in this thread talking about "haha", "Salty tears", "no-lifer" and all the other garbage I start to feel much like a rich man who is ostracized for being rich. Everything I suggest or discuss is made in the light of balance and for the well being of the community and the game as whole, not myself. I've exposed countless bugs, exploits, and things that are OP to community with the intention of getting them fixed, despite often nerfing myself in doing so. I've got a history of that for anyone who has followed me over the past couple years.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

im against the cap, nothings going to change that.

but the catch up mechanism has got to be a lot better than slowing down the higher ups. just give more enlightenment for those with less. so 0-100 gets more than 101-200 etc. saying that i played the game long enough to meet the slow lane is pretty well a stupid idea.

Mojomonkeyman

Ezareth wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Tyr wrote: »

monkeymystic wrote: »

Cap is simply too low almost one year after CP patch launced for PC players.

They are giving longterm players the middle finger, and will 100% guaranteed lose lots of subs and longtimers over this if it goes live.

Huge fail in other words, and my guild is already talking about other mmos after orsinum AKA "SLEEP MODE PATCH" launches to send all their subs and longtimers away from their game.

Ridiculous. The 500Cp Cap will affect less than .1% of their player base. a few hundred players at most out of the hundreds of thousands active.

90% of my friends already have 400+ CPs. The majority of the people I compete against and interacted with daily are in the 400-500+ range and will be capped by Osrinium launch.

The active player base is not *that* large.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that players like you and I, Ezareth, are highly undesired and are always going to be hated in this game. Not because of CP, but because we're good players.

Get your head out of your arse.

I'd really like to not think this way, but seeing as how I get rage telled about having "1k+ CP" quite often when I don't have anywhere near that and get other pretty nasty tells from players, it's the truth. There's a difference between players who choose to spend time learning the game and players who don't. And it has become more and more clear the more players are accusing others of killing them only because of champion points. There's a seething hatred for players who kill other players in this community and it's sad because what else is there to do in pvp besides killing other people? I've never been killed by someone and instantly thought to whisper them "eff you you c**t and go die filthy exploiter cp grinding p.o.s." etc etc.

I was actually *Banned* in this game for "Hacking" because the players that I wrecked daily (in 1.5) continuously reported me for hacking because they had no idea what I was doing and hated me too much to bother asking and ZoS finally listened to them and followed through with a ban with no evidence.

I also get regular tells about being a no life CP-grinder, using exploits and hacks, Macros (lol) and all sorts of nonsense.

It's the main reason these forums (in particular general) have become toxic for me. People who don't have 2 years of time in the game come around and think they're top dog, get their arses handed to them and the only explanation is something other than themselves. It gets pretty infuriating and Bee and I aren't even uncommon in the PvP community for this kind of harrassment.

95% of the people who rage tell me instantly block me because they know deep down inside their accusations are wrong and can't handle the stark truth.

Anyone who knows me in game or has ever whispered me in game knows that I'm not an "Elitist" or an ass, I'm very cordial to random people who ask me questions and are respectful. If you look through the majority of my god knows how many thousand posts on these forums you'll notice most of the time is spent explaining mechanics to people, reporting bugs, or participating in balance discussions.

When I see all these people in this thread talking about "haha", "Salty tears", "no-lifer" and all the other garbage I start to feel much like a rich man who is ostracized for being rich. Everything I suggest or discuss is made in the light of balance and for the well being of the community and the game as whole, not myself. I've exposed countless bugs, exploits, and things that are OP to community with the intention of getting them fixed, despite often nerfing myself in doing so. I've got a history of that for anyone who has followed me over the past couple years.

"I am just a poor, godly gifted player that wants to get a hug" essay nr. 9001... Come on, you can do more paragraphs!

xaraan

btw, I need 1.9 million xp for one champion point in the new system with diminishing returns

do we really even need a cap at that point? lol

Derra

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Tyr wrote: »

monkeymystic wrote: »

Cap is simply too low almost one year after CP patch launced for PC players.

They are giving longterm players the middle finger, and will 100% guaranteed lose lots of subs and longtimers over this if it goes live.

Huge fail in other words, and my guild is already talking about other mmos after orsinum AKA "SLEEP MODE PATCH" launches to send all their subs and longtimers away from their game.

Ridiculous. The 500Cp Cap will affect less than .1% of their player base. a few hundred players at most out of the hundreds of thousands active.

90% of my friends already have 400+ CPs. The majority of the people I compete against and interacted with daily are in the 400-500+ range and will be capped by Osrinium launch.

The active player base is not *that* large.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that players like you and I, Ezareth, are highly undesired and are always going to be hated in this game. Not because of CP, but because we're good players.

Get your head out of your arse.

I'd really like to not think this way, but seeing as how I get rage telled about having "1k+ CP" quite often when I don't have anywhere near that and get other pretty nasty tells from players, it's the truth. There's a difference between players who choose to spend time learning the game and players who don't. And it has become more and more clear the more players are accusing others of killing them only because of champion points. There's a seething hatred for players who kill other players in this community and it's sad because what else is there to do in pvp besides killing other people? I've never been killed by someone and instantly thought to whisper them "eff you you c**t and go die filthy exploiter cp grinding p.o.s." etc etc.

Ehhh I get the same kind of stuff so I know what youre saying. Fought an AD emp the other day and he refused to fight without 20 other people that helped him get emp. double pretty much every stat and kill him in 1v1 only to be PMd about how he reported me for macroing and exploiting. Its embarrassing. Yet the catering to zergs continues and produces this kind of thing.

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Tyr wrote: »

monkeymystic wrote: »

Cap is simply too low almost one year after CP patch launced for PC players.

They are giving longterm players the middle finger, and will 100% guaranteed lose lots of subs and longtimers over this if it goes live.

Huge fail in other words, and my guild is already talking about other mmos after orsinum AKA "SLEEP MODE PATCH" launches to send all their subs and longtimers away from their game.

Ridiculous. The 500Cp Cap will affect less than .1% of their player base. a few hundred players at most out of the hundreds of thousands active.

90% of my friends already have 400+ CPs. The majority of the people I compete against and interacted with daily are in the 400-500+ range and will be capped by Osrinium launch.

The active player base is not *that* large.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that players like you and I, Ezareth, are highly undesired and are always going to be hated in this game. Not because of CP, but because we're good players. Right now people blame CPs for their downfalls (ignoring exactly how easy it is to obtain them. Hell, if I had wanted to grind I probably could have 1.5k+ CP by now lol), and will continue to find other reasons to blame for their lack of knowledge or ability to be effective in what they do.
I've been in TS plenty of times when you and @Suru are theory crafting for stamina builds and discussing the effectiveness of different abilities, Cinn and I have been in TS and have done the same for our magicka builds. We have learned where to effectively place CP, or what enchants are most effective, or what gear will work best, and how to balance sustain vs. damage in PvP. Players like us take the time to intricately plan out and test our builds. We will always be the players that are more successful than others because we have taken the time to learn the game and its skills/abilties/passives in and out.

People in this thread want players who have played since launch to sit back and be shoved in a corner, yet don't realize that their cries for "fairness" are hypocritical. Months of progression are being robbed from those of us who have spent time actively playing ZoS' game from the beginning, testing things, identifying bugs, and are the reason the game has gotten to this point because we have been loyal, yes, LOYAL from the start. The CP system was implemented to give players the progression we didn't have. I believe ZoS' best decision could be to cap CP, overall, at 1200 and call it good. That gives every single player a reasonable goal. Implement a catch-up system, allow players to reach 250 CP easily, and then have the same, normal progression from there that we have all had to deal with since the system was released. The issue I see with a majority of players right now is that they want free handouts. The CP system should not be a free-welfare program for you all, but I do agree that there is a need for a catch-up mechanic. But not both. Either cap CP seasonally, keeping the total at 3600, or cap CP total to 1200 and allow a catch-up mechanic. You should not be given both. We have all had to work for our CP, players behind should have to as well.

I want to vomit reading yours and Ezareth`s posts. I am seriously a bit disgusted by the self-rightiousness and over-inflated egos you guys display on these forums.

I think, you should write another essay on how you are god`s gift to gaming and how rocky the way was to become the heroes you are, completely unbiased too, of course! I recommend the reply to my post as the proper medium to do so, the opportunity is obvious, right?

"I really like to compete in Kungfu!....but not without my bazooka. If you take my bazooka away, I will quit Kungfu!"

Looks like you translate their posts in another way - I dont get that impression at all in reading it. They spend time working on the mechanics of the game and understanding because they strive to be good. These are the same players that produce builds that a large portion of the community will go visit to figure out how to fine tune their own builds and find out what they can do without having to put in the trial and error to do so.

Keep in mind there didnt used to be a CP system in place and players were all at the same V10 or V12 and fighting each other on equal ground. These same players made the same impact on the field, and frankly were even stronger before patches continuously put in mechanics to limit players strengths (damage reduction, AOE caps).

Dude, thats rubbish. If they were striving to become good or better, they wouldnt mind cp and just focus on developing as a player. I just can`t take any PvPer serious who likes to have and keep stat advantage over the people he fights in PvP. Thats not PvP. Thats PvE attitude, where you need the carrot. Give PvPers a valid, skillbased (!) leaderboard and they are mostly fine.

I have played PvP successfully since about 20 years and all the reliably good games which lasted have one thing in common - leveled or horicontally progressive playing field.

Edit: I have absolutely no desire to join the oh so popular self marketing train, but if you dig out the old best player EU posts, you will see I was one of the mentioned players of my class. If I recall right, Ezareth was very proud of his max regen/cost reduc "I can bolt over 9000 times" build at this time, not exactly what I consider good play. Basically he tried to be able to spam every ability as much as possible without having to make ressource related decisions.

Well it´s also about character progression. If i wanted a completely linear horizontal pvp environment i´d would not play mmo´s. I´d play dota or cs or starcraft.

I´m here for pvp and for a carrot on a stick. I want a pvp carrot.

Image a cp system with 1200 hardcap where you reach 600cp with 5% of the xp needed for 1200. I think it would be fine as is.

Banroc

I keep Reading "But i have earned them" yes the characters you earned them on did imo ZOS messed up with making them Account wide
It kills non-vet pvp and allows players to amass huge numbers of CP and now we need a cap and catch up system
They should just reset them to apply only to the characters that earned them, those high numbers would soon drop
May even see balanced class numbers running around and not the lastest fotm build from streamers
No one could complain about it you would simply be getting what their character has earned
New players could enter non vet and enjoy it with out getting stomped on they may even stay

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

Ezareth wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Tyr wrote: »

monkeymystic wrote: »

Cap is simply too low almost one year after CP patch launced for PC players.

They are giving longterm players the middle finger, and will 100% guaranteed lose lots of subs and longtimers over this if it goes live.

Huge fail in other words, and my guild is already talking about other mmos after orsinum AKA "SLEEP MODE PATCH" launches to send all their subs and longtimers away from their game.

Ridiculous. The 500Cp Cap will affect less than .1% of their player base. a few hundred players at most out of the hundreds of thousands active.

90% of my friends already have 400+ CPs. The majority of the people I compete against and interacted with daily are in the 400-500+ range and will be capped by Osrinium launch.

The active player base is not *that* large.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that players like you and I, Ezareth, are highly undesired and are always going to be hated in this game. Not because of CP, but because we're good players.

Get your head out of your arse.

I'd really like to not think this way, but seeing as how I get rage telled about having "1k+ CP" quite often when I don't have anywhere near that and get other pretty nasty tells from players, it's the truth. There's a difference between players who choose to spend time learning the game and players who don't. And it has become more and more clear the more players are accusing others of killing them only because of champion points. There's a seething hatred for players who kill other players in this community and it's sad because what else is there to do in pvp besides killing other people? I've never been killed by someone and instantly thought to whisper them "eff you you c**t and go die filthy exploiter cp grinding p.o.s." etc etc.

I was actually *Banned* in this game for "Hacking" because the players that I wrecked daily (in 1.5) continuously reported me for hacking because they had no idea what I was doing and hated me too much to bother asking and ZoS finally listened to them and followed through with a ban with no evidence.

I also get regular tells about being a no life CP-grinder, using exploits and hacks, Macros (lol) and all sorts of nonsense.

It's the main reason these forums (in particular general) have become toxic for me. People who don't have 2 years of time in the game come around and think they're top dog, get their arses handed to them and the only explanation is something other than themselves. It gets pretty infuriating and Bee and I aren't even uncommon in the PvP community for this kind of harrassment.

95% of the people who rage tell me instantly block me because they know deep down inside their accusations are wrong and can't handle the stark truth.

Anyone who knows me in game or has ever whispered me in game knows that I'm not an "Elitist" or an ass, I'm very cordial to random people who ask me questions and are respectful. If you look through the majority of my god knows how many thousand posts on these forums you'll notice most of the time is spent explaining mechanics to people, reporting bugs, or participating in balance discussions.

When I see all these people in this thread talking about "haha", "Salty tears", "no-lifer" and all the other garbage I start to feel much like a rich man who is ostracized for being rich. Everything I suggest or discuss is made in the light of balance and for the well being of the community and the game as whole, not myself. I've exposed countless bugs, exploits, and things that are OP to community with the intention of getting them fixed, despite often nerfing myself in doing so. I've got a history of that for anyone who has followed me over the past couple years.

i agree with this, it seems everyone wants "equal and fair" or "the best for the new players" but are willing to ignore the ones already here. i highly doubt these zealots really care about either if it doesn't benefit them. there is not true absolute fairness, or equality. as for the new players.... a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

the catch- up mechanism was already in the system- enlightenment and an increase in power. the more CPs you have the faster, more effecient you are at gaining CP. yes, that means you have to grind every once in a while.... suck it up and get it done. we all have aspects of the game we do begrudgingly, but we do it because its part of the game. they added the exp pots to help out, so if you are that desperate buy one from a player or the store.

Ezareth

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I want to vomit reading yours and Ezareth`s posts. I am seriously a bit disgusted by the self-rightiousness and over-inflated egos you guys display on these forums.

I think, you should write another essay on how you are god`s gift to gaming and how rocky the way was to become the heroes you are, completely unbiased too, of course! I recommend the reply to my post as the proper medium to do so, the opportunity is obvious, right?

"I really like to compete in Kungfu!....but not without my bazooka. If you take my bazooka away, I will quit Kungfu!"

You've been vomiting on the forums since as long as I can recall. Your hatred and disgust have long been made known.

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Tyr wrote: »

monkeymystic wrote: »

Cap is simply too low almost one year after CP patch launced for PC players.

They are giving longterm players the middle finger, and will 100% guaranteed lose lots of subs and longtimers over this if it goes live.

Huge fail in other words, and my guild is already talking about other mmos after orsinum AKA "SLEEP MODE PATCH" launches to send all their subs and longtimers away from their game.

Ridiculous. The 500Cp Cap will affect less than .1% of their player base. a few hundred players at most out of the hundreds of thousands active.

90% of my friends already have 400+ CPs. The majority of the people I compete against and interacted with daily are in the 400-500+ range and will be capped by Osrinium launch.

The active player base is not *that* large.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that players like you and I, Ezareth, are highly undesired and are always going to be hated in this game. Not because of CP, but because we're good players.

Get your head out of your arse.

I'd really like to not think this way, but seeing as how I get rage telled about having "1k+ CP" quite often when I don't have anywhere near that and get other pretty nasty tells from players, it's the truth. There's a difference between players who choose to spend time learning the game and players who don't. And it has become more and more clear the more players are accusing others of killing them only because of champion points. There's a seething hatred for players who kill other players in this community and it's sad because what else is there to do in pvp besides killing other people? I've never been killed by someone and instantly thought to whisper them "eff you you c**t and go die filthy exploiter cp grinding p.o.s." etc etc.

Ehhh I get the same kind of stuff so I know what youre saying. Fought an AD emp the other day and he refused to fight without 20 other people that helped him get emp. double pretty much every stat and kill him in 1v1 only to be PMd about how he reported me for macroing and exploiting. Its embarrassing. Yet the catering to zergs continues and produces this kind of thing.

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Tyr wrote: »

monkeymystic wrote: »

Cap is simply too low almost one year after CP patch launced for PC players.

They are giving longterm players the middle finger, and will 100% guaranteed lose lots of subs and longtimers over this if it goes live.

Huge fail in other words, and my guild is already talking about other mmos after orsinum AKA "SLEEP MODE PATCH" launches to send all their subs and longtimers away from their game.

Ridiculous. The 500Cp Cap will affect less than .1% of their player base. a few hundred players at most out of the hundreds of thousands active.

90% of my friends already have 400+ CPs. The majority of the people I compete against and interacted with daily are in the 400-500+ range and will be capped by Osrinium launch.

The active player base is not *that* large.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that players like you and I, Ezareth, are highly undesired and are always going to be hated in this game. Not because of CP, but because we're good players. Right now people blame CPs for their downfalls (ignoring exactly how easy it is to obtain them. Hell, if I had wanted to grind I probably could have 1.5k+ CP by now lol), and will continue to find other reasons to blame for their lack of knowledge or ability to be effective in what they do.
I've been in TS plenty of times when you and @Suru are theory crafting for stamina builds and discussing the effectiveness of different abilities, Cinn and I have been in TS and have done the same for our magicka builds. We have learned where to effectively place CP, or what enchants are most effective, or what gear will work best, and how to balance sustain vs. damage in PvP. Players like us take the time to intricately plan out and test our builds. We will always be the players that are more successful than others because we have taken the time to learn the game and its skills/abilties/passives in and out.

People in this thread want players who have played since launch to sit back and be shoved in a corner, yet don't realize that their cries for "fairness" are hypocritical. Months of progression are being robbed from those of us who have spent time actively playing ZoS' game from the beginning, testing things, identifying bugs, and are the reason the game has gotten to this point because we have been loyal, yes, LOYAL from the start. The CP system was implemented to give players the progression we didn't have. I believe ZoS' best decision could be to cap CP, overall, at 1200 and call it good. That gives every single player a reasonable goal. Implement a catch-up system, allow players to reach 250 CP easily, and then have the same, normal progression from there that we have all had to deal with since the system was released. The issue I see with a majority of players right now is that they want free handouts. The CP system should not be a free-welfare program for you all, but I do agree that there is a need for a catch-up mechanic. But not both. Either cap CP seasonally, keeping the total at 3600, or cap CP total to 1200 and allow a catch-up mechanic. You should not be given both. We have all had to work for our CP, players behind should have to as well.

I want to vomit reading yours and Ezareth`s posts. I am seriously a bit disgusted by the self-rightiousness and over-inflated egos you guys display on these forums.

I think, you should write another essay on how you are god`s gift to gaming and how rocky the way was to become the heroes you are, completely unbiased too, of course! I recommend the reply to my post as the proper medium to do so, the opportunity is obvious, right?

"I really like to compete in Kungfu!....but not without my bazooka. If you take my bazooka away, I will quit Kungfu!"

Looks like you translate their posts in another way - I dont get that impression at all in reading it. They spend time working on the mechanics of the game and understanding because they strive to be good. These are the same players that produce builds that a large portion of the community will go visit to figure out how to fine tune their own builds and find out what they can do without having to put in the trial and error to do so.

Keep in mind there didnt used to be a CP system in place and players were all at the same V10 or V12 and fighting each other on equal ground. These same players made the same impact on the field, and frankly were even stronger before patches continuously put in mechanics to limit players strengths (damage reduction, AOE caps).

Dude, thats rubbish. If they were striving to become good or better, they wouldnt mind cp and just focus on developing as a player. I just can`t take any PvPer serious who likes to have and keep stat advantage over the people he fights in PvP. Thats not PvP. Thats PvE attitude, where you need the carrot. Give PvPers a valid, skillbased (!) leaderboard and they are mostly fine.

I have played PvP successfully since about 20 years and all the reliably good games which lasted have one thing in common - leveled or horicontally progressive playing field.

Edit: I have absolutely no desire to join the oh so popular self marketing train, but if you dig out the old best player EU posts, you will see I was one of the mentioned players of my class. If I recall right, Ezareth was very proud of his max regen/cost reduc "I can bolt over 9000 times" build at this time, not exactly what I consider good play. Basically he tried to be able to spam every ability as much as possible without having to make ressource related decisions.

My builds have always relied upon min/maxing just as every good player running any build has done. Back in the days of soft caps in 1.5, being able to have capped stats and the maximum cost reduction possible in the game wasn't widely known or easily done. There wasn't a player in the game who fought me who would have considered me easy to kill either.

And it must be said this is an MMO RPG, not a MOBA. "A level playing field" has never been a stated objective of the game, however the difference is that the *path* to equality is available to all who are willing to both learn and put the time in to developing their character.

It also should be noted that I fall near the bottom of the most active PvPers that I know. It's been awhile since I've heard of a player that I see on the battlefield daily with less CP than me. My point of view here as usual isn't intended to help myself.

Mojomonkeyman

Derra wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Tyr wrote: »

monkeymystic wrote: »

Cap is simply too low almost one year after CP patch launced for PC players.

They are giving longterm players the middle finger, and will 100% guaranteed lose lots of subs and longtimers over this if it goes live.

Huge fail in other words, and my guild is already talking about other mmos after orsinum AKA "SLEEP MODE PATCH" launches to send all their subs and longtimers away from their game.

Ridiculous. The 500Cp Cap will affect less than .1% of their player base. a few hundred players at most out of the hundreds of thousands active.

90% of my friends already have 400+ CPs. The majority of the people I compete against and interacted with daily are in the 400-500+ range and will be capped by Osrinium launch.

The active player base is not *that* large.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that players like you and I, Ezareth, are highly undesired and are always going to be hated in this game. Not because of CP, but because we're good players.

Get your head out of your arse.

I'd really like to not think this way, but seeing as how I get rage telled about having "1k+ CP" quite often when I don't have anywhere near that and get other pretty nasty tells from players, it's the truth. There's a difference between players who choose to spend time learning the game and players who don't. And it has become more and more clear the more players are accusing others of killing them only because of champion points. There's a seething hatred for players who kill other players in this community and it's sad because what else is there to do in pvp besides killing other people? I've never been killed by someone and instantly thought to whisper them "eff you you c**t and go die filthy exploiter cp grinding p.o.s." etc etc.

Ehhh I get the same kind of stuff so I know what youre saying. Fought an AD emp the other day and he refused to fight without 20 other people that helped him get emp. double pretty much every stat and kill him in 1v1 only to be PMd about how he reported me for macroing and exploiting. Its embarrassing. Yet the catering to zergs continues and produces this kind of thing.

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Tyr wrote: »

monkeymystic wrote: »

Cap is simply too low almost one year after CP patch launced for PC players.

They are giving longterm players the middle finger, and will 100% guaranteed lose lots of subs and longtimers over this if it goes live.

Huge fail in other words, and my guild is already talking about other mmos after orsinum AKA "SLEEP MODE PATCH" launches to send all their subs and longtimers away from their game.

Ridiculous. The 500Cp Cap will affect less than .1% of their player base. a few hundred players at most out of the hundreds of thousands active.

90% of my friends already have 400+ CPs. The majority of the people I compete against and interacted with daily are in the 400-500+ range and will be capped by Osrinium launch.

The active player base is not *that* large.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that players like you and I, Ezareth, are highly undesired and are always going to be hated in this game. Not because of CP, but because we're good players. Right now people blame CPs for their downfalls (ignoring exactly how easy it is to obtain them. Hell, if I had wanted to grind I probably could have 1.5k+ CP by now lol), and will continue to find other reasons to blame for their lack of knowledge or ability to be effective in what they do.
I've been in TS plenty of times when you and @Suru are theory crafting for stamina builds and discussing the effectiveness of different abilities, Cinn and I have been in TS and have done the same for our magicka builds. We have learned where to effectively place CP, or what enchants are most effective, or what gear will work best, and how to balance sustain vs. damage in PvP. Players like us take the time to intricately plan out and test our builds. We will always be the players that are more successful than others because we have taken the time to learn the game and its skills/abilties/passives in and out.

People in this thread want players who have played since launch to sit back and be shoved in a corner, yet don't realize that their cries for "fairness" are hypocritical. Months of progression are being robbed from those of us who have spent time actively playing ZoS' game from the beginning, testing things, identifying bugs, and are the reason the game has gotten to this point because we have been loyal, yes, LOYAL from the start. The CP system was implemented to give players the progression we didn't have. I believe ZoS' best decision could be to cap CP, overall, at 1200 and call it good. That gives every single player a reasonable goal. Implement a catch-up system, allow players to reach 250 CP easily, and then have the same, normal progression from there that we have all had to deal with since the system was released. The issue I see with a majority of players right now is that they want free handouts. The CP system should not be a free-welfare program for you all, but I do agree that there is a need for a catch-up mechanic. But not both. Either cap CP seasonally, keeping the total at 3600, or cap CP total to 1200 and allow a catch-up mechanic. You should not be given both. We have all had to work for our CP, players behind should have to as well.

I want to vomit reading yours and Ezareth`s posts. I am seriously a bit disgusted by the self-rightiousness and over-inflated egos you guys display on these forums.

I think, you should write another essay on how you are god`s gift to gaming and how rocky the way was to become the heroes you are, completely unbiased too, of course! I recommend the reply to my post as the proper medium to do so, the opportunity is obvious, right?

"I really like to compete in Kungfu!....but not without my bazooka. If you take my bazooka away, I will quit Kungfu!"

Looks like you translate their posts in another way - I dont get that impression at all in reading it. They spend time working on the mechanics of the game and understanding because they strive to be good. These are the same players that produce builds that a large portion of the community will go visit to figure out how to fine tune their own builds and find out what they can do without having to put in the trial and error to do so.

Keep in mind there didnt used to be a CP system in place and players were all at the same V10 or V12 and fighting each other on equal ground. These same players made the same impact on the field, and frankly were even stronger before patches continuously put in mechanics to limit players strengths (damage reduction, AOE caps).

Dude, thats rubbish. If they were striving to become good or better, they wouldnt mind cp and just focus on developing as a player. I just can`t take any PvPer serious who likes to have and keep stat advantage over the people he fights in PvP. Thats not PvP. Thats PvE attitude, where you need the carrot. Give PvPers a valid, skillbased (!) leaderboard and they are mostly fine.

I have played PvP successfully since about 20 years and all the reliably good games which lasted have one thing in common - leveled or horicontally progressive playing field.

Edit: I have absolutely no desire to join the oh so popular self marketing train, but if you dig out the old best player EU posts, you will see I was one of the mentioned players of my class. If I recall right, Ezareth was very proud of his max regen/cost reduc "I can bolt over 9000 times" build at this time, not exactly what I consider good play. Basically he tried to be able to spam every ability as much as possible without having to make ressource related decisions.

Well it´s also about character progression. If i wanted a completely linear horizontal pvp environment i´d would not play mmo´s. I´d play dota or cs or starcraft.

I´m here for pvp and for a carrot on a stick. I want a pvp carrot.

Image a cp system with 1200 hardcap where you reach 600cp with 5% of the xp needed for 1200. I think it would be fine as is.

Well, I played sc for far too long to not be influenced. I always imagine MMO PvP combat ideally as open world fighting game, which despite having different power tiers always managed to keep the balance and the PvP going for years or even more than a decade. Thats successful, moreso than any MMO can ever claim.

But I like MMOs and I was and am willing to settle for compromise. If we would go deep into that I would have to go over the ESO presales promises that made me buy it and indicated somewhat leveled playing field after getting to max rank. That "somewhat" is totally ok for me.

CP destroyed that. Removal of softcaps and undaunted gear almost destroyed that before, but it was manageable through knowing the sets bonuses and simply playing around them. But how can I counter flat stat advantages?

Ezareth

LordSemaj wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

Noobie, CP grinder and ZoS

Luke = the noob, darth = the cp grinder, ZOS = Tbagging ? FENGRUSH is confused!

No... the teabagger is the CP grinder and ZOS is Darth Vader.

The image is surprisingly accurate. ZOS has force choked and sabered the grinders to protect the newbies.

Except CPs are not and have *never* been the reason those "newbies" are dying. This whole sense of "protecting" casuals and newbies is a total illusion. It's a scapegoat that will quickly shift to something else once Osrinium is released.

rfennell_ESO

Kronuxx wrote: »

Truth be told, I think the cap of 501 is fine. If anything above 300 makes little difference, then what's the problem with a cap at 501?


In addition, I must be missing the point in people complaining here but isn't the above quote a good thing? I mean, it makes sense that people with less champion points should earn them more quickly than those with more. Does no one here play D3 at all? You guys do realize that this Champion Point system is basically a direct rip off from the Paragon leveling system from D3. In D3 it is extremely easy for any new player to compete and do well with any of the older established players because leveling your Paragon level was based on the current level. The higher you are, the more difficult, and the lower you are the more quickly and easily it was to gain exp. At this current state ZOS' CP progression is horrid. However I feel this new logistical system they are implementing in PTS, is leagues better than what we have now. I only wish they did it sooner rather than later.

The problem with the cap of 501 is that people that didn't exploit to CP rank, didn't play like some people are inferring they must have, and currently have more LOSE points.

I did all the math in the thread already.

The only true retort offered is "you have more CP than me so you must be punished" or "it's not going to affect me so I don't care".

It's not going to affect a lot of the higher than average CP people much, I can easily live with 501 cp. My question is why do I have to lose 100 that I gained fairly and squarely?

It's like this one guy in this one guild that constantly is saying things like "high CP losers" as the answer to why he just got steamrolled. He plays more than I do. I have over double his CP because he fails more than I do. He gets steamrolled due to just being a bad player, and it's always the CP to blame.

As for the naysayers, the it's not possiblers, the I can't finish out my enlightenment every day or gain some extra xp toward CPs so those that do must be punished... 10-15 minutes outside your sewer base is a CP rank of enlightenment. There has been a spot somewhere that a beginner can do that was in that time frame your daily enlightenment since they put the system in game.

It's not unreasonable to ask the cap be 1 point of enlightenment and 1 point of non enlightened CP a day from March 3rd until the end of the capped dlc.

If that's an issue for "new players" grant a minimum cap as well.

Mojomonkeyman

Ezareth wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I want to vomit reading yours and Ezareth`s posts. I am seriously a bit disgusted by the self-rightiousness and over-inflated egos you guys display on these forums.

I think, you should write another essay on how you are god`s gift to gaming and how rocky the way was to become the heroes you are, completely unbiased too, of course! I recommend the reply to my post as the proper medium to do so, the opportunity is obvious, right?

"I really like to compete in Kungfu!....but not without my bazooka. If you take my bazooka away, I will quit Kungfu!"

You've been vomiting on the forums since as long as I can recall. Your hatred and disgust have long been made known.

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Tyr wrote: »

monkeymystic wrote: »

Cap is simply too low almost one year after CP patch launced for PC players.

They are giving longterm players the middle finger, and will 100% guaranteed lose lots of subs and longtimers over this if it goes live.

Huge fail in other words, and my guild is already talking about other mmos after orsinum AKA "SLEEP MODE PATCH" launches to send all their subs and longtimers away from their game.

Ridiculous. The 500Cp Cap will affect less than .1% of their player base. a few hundred players at most out of the hundreds of thousands active.

90% of my friends already have 400+ CPs. The majority of the people I compete against and interacted with daily are in the 400-500+ range and will be capped by Osrinium launch.

The active player base is not *that* large.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that players like you and I, Ezareth, are highly undesired and are always going to be hated in this game. Not because of CP, but because we're good players.

Get your head out of your arse.

I'd really like to not think this way, but seeing as how I get rage telled about having "1k+ CP" quite often when I don't have anywhere near that and get other pretty nasty tells from players, it's the truth. There's a difference between players who choose to spend time learning the game and players who don't. And it has become more and more clear the more players are accusing others of killing them only because of champion points. There's a seething hatred for players who kill other players in this community and it's sad because what else is there to do in pvp besides killing other people? I've never been killed by someone and instantly thought to whisper them "eff you you c**t and go die filthy exploiter cp grinding p.o.s." etc etc.

Ehhh I get the same kind of stuff so I know what youre saying. Fought an AD emp the other day and he refused to fight without 20 other people that helped him get emp. double pretty much every stat and kill him in 1v1 only to be PMd about how he reported me for macroing and exploiting. Its embarrassing. Yet the catering to zergs continues and produces this kind of thing.

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Tyr wrote: »

monkeymystic wrote: »

Cap is simply too low almost one year after CP patch launced for PC players.

They are giving longterm players the middle finger, and will 100% guaranteed lose lots of subs and longtimers over this if it goes live.

Huge fail in other words, and my guild is already talking about other mmos after orsinum AKA "SLEEP MODE PATCH" launches to send all their subs and longtimers away from their game.

Ridiculous. The 500Cp Cap will affect less than .1% of their player base. a few hundred players at most out of the hundreds of thousands active.

90% of my friends already have 400+ CPs. The majority of the people I compete against and interacted with daily are in the 400-500+ range and will be capped by Osrinium launch.

The active player base is not *that* large.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that players like you and I, Ezareth, are highly undesired and are always going to be hated in this game. Not because of CP, but because we're good players. Right now people blame CPs for their downfalls (ignoring exactly how easy it is to obtain them. Hell, if I had wanted to grind I probably could have 1.5k+ CP by now lol), and will continue to find other reasons to blame for their lack of knowledge or ability to be effective in what they do.
I've been in TS plenty of times when you and @Suru are theory crafting for stamina builds and discussing the effectiveness of different abilities, Cinn and I have been in TS and have done the same for our magicka builds. We have learned where to effectively place CP, or what enchants are most effective, or what gear will work best, and how to balance sustain vs. damage in PvP. Players like us take the time to intricately plan out and test our builds. We will always be the players that are more successful than others because we have taken the time to learn the game and its skills/abilties/passives in and out.

People in this thread want players who have played since launch to sit back and be shoved in a corner, yet don't realize that their cries for "fairness" are hypocritical. Months of progression are being robbed from those of us who have spent time actively playing ZoS' game from the beginning, testing things, identifying bugs, and are the reason the game has gotten to this point because we have been loyal, yes, LOYAL from the start. The CP system was implemented to give players the progression we didn't have. I believe ZoS' best decision could be to cap CP, overall, at 1200 and call it good. That gives every single player a reasonable goal. Implement a catch-up system, allow players to reach 250 CP easily, and then have the same, normal progression from there that we have all had to deal with since the system was released. The issue I see with a majority of players right now is that they want free handouts. The CP system should not be a free-welfare program for you all, but I do agree that there is a need for a catch-up mechanic. But not both. Either cap CP seasonally, keeping the total at 3600, or cap CP total to 1200 and allow a catch-up mechanic. You should not be given both. We have all had to work for our CP, players behind should have to as well.

I want to vomit reading yours and Ezareth`s posts. I am seriously a bit disgusted by the self-rightiousness and over-inflated egos you guys display on these forums.

I think, you should write another essay on how you are god`s gift to gaming and how rocky the way was to become the heroes you are, completely unbiased too, of course! I recommend the reply to my post as the proper medium to do so, the opportunity is obvious, right?

"I really like to compete in Kungfu!....but not without my bazooka. If you take my bazooka away, I will quit Kungfu!"

Looks like you translate their posts in another way - I dont get that impression at all in reading it. They spend time working on the mechanics of the game and understanding because they strive to be good. These are the same players that produce builds that a large portion of the community will go visit to figure out how to fine tune their own builds and find out what they can do without having to put in the trial and error to do so.

Keep in mind there didnt used to be a CP system in place and players were all at the same V10 or V12 and fighting each other on equal ground. These same players made the same impact on the field, and frankly were even stronger before patches continuously put in mechanics to limit players strengths (damage reduction, AOE caps).

Dude, thats rubbish. If they were striving to become good or better, they wouldnt mind cp and just focus on developing as a player. I just can`t take any PvPer serious who likes to have and keep stat advantage over the people he fights in PvP. Thats not PvP. Thats PvE attitude, where you need the carrot. Give PvPers a valid, skillbased (!) leaderboard and they are mostly fine.

I have played PvP successfully since about 20 years and all the reliably good games which lasted have one thing in common - leveled or horicontally progressive playing field.

Edit: I have absolutely no desire to join the oh so popular self marketing train, but if you dig out the old best player EU posts, you will see I was one of the mentioned players of my class. If I recall right, Ezareth was very proud of his max regen/cost reduc "I can bolt over 9000 times" build at this time, not exactly what I consider good play. Basically he tried to be able to spam every ability as much as possible without having to make ressource related decisions.

My builds have always relied upon min/maxing just as every good player running any build has done. Back in the days of soft caps in 1.5, being able to have capped stats and the maximum cost reduction possible in the game wasn't widely known or easily done. There wasn't a player in the game who fought me who would have considered me easy to kill either.

And it must be said this is an MMO RPG, not a MOBA. "A level playing field" has never been a stated objective of the game, however the difference is that the *path* to equality is available to all who are willing to both learn and put the time in to developing their character.

It also should be noted that I fall near the bottom of the most active PvPers that I know. It's been awhile since I've heard of a player that I see on the battlefield daily with less CP than me. My point of view here as usual isn't intended to help myself.

I will ignore the immature attacks and just ask: So you want a PvP game artificially and increasingly favoring the one who has more time at hand instead of providing an adequate playingfield that allows skill to prevail?

Didn`t you complain about the lack of challenges a few posts before? Hmm, one might think...there`s a connection. If you would be the person you claim to be, shouldnt you be happy to know you won on even field which usually benefits challenges and such?!

myrrrorb14_ESO

xaraan wrote: »

btw, I need 1.9 million xp for one champion point in the new system with diminishing returns

do we really even need a cap at that point? lol

Holy cow!

AhPook_Is_Here

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Dude, thats rubbish. If they were striving to become good or better, they wouldnt mind cp and just focus on developing as a player. I just can`t take any PvPer serious who likes to have and keep stat advantage over the people he fights in PvP. Thats not PvP. Thats PvE attitude, where you need the carrot. Give PvPers a valid, skillbased (!) leaderboard and they are mostly fine.

I wish more people had this perspective on gaming. GW2 was a good game for this kind of competition, especially in the small format battlegrounds. If you wanted an edge over other players you had to do it by developing your skill as a player, learning what combo fields to create for your buddies combo finishers, and what combo fields to expect from your buddies for your combo finishers. Knowledge and coordination make for much better game-play than X% locked in boost to defense, offense and regeneration, for X% L, where L = avg hours in game/day/hours in day*~210

RinaldoGandolphi

@ezareth @DisgracefulMind I am one who has been here since beta early access as well. I'll never be one to say im the best or the worst, as the 1st thing taught to me in martial arts was "As good as you are;there is always someone better then you" So im very humble.

that being said, I don't think the majority of the playerbase don't want folks like you two, me or anyone else who has been here a long time to be part of the community, I just think these are frustrations being born out of a game with some very lopsided mechanics, no game will ever be perfect, but ESO has many more lopsided opportunities then most.

However, beyond all that, im not in favor of a Champion Point cap.

I am however in favor that the bonuses need to be reduced...all the bonuses that give 25% at 100 points should give 9%, all the bonuses that give 15% at 100 points should give 5%

The biggest issue with the Champion System is the bonuses it gives the percentages are far too high. The Champion System was supposed to be a "Horizontal Progression System" it was supposed to add icing flavor to a cake you already liked, but what it has created is a Vertical Progression System tied to whomever earns the most XP is the strongest (with some exceptions of course).


Time spent should NOT equal stronger....Mobs killed should NOT = stronger....Gear Selection, Stat distribution, class-weapon synergy, tactics and skill SHOULD = stronger

This is why capping Champion Points isn;t the answer....reducing the bonuses they confer is.....24% more Elemental damage, physical damage, etc no wonder most of the PVE content in this game turned into a face roll in 1.6. My current character is immensely more powerful in 1.6 then he ever was in 1.5, at 300 CP PVE content in this game is a faceroll.

The Champion System is actually hurting ZOS ability to create quality PVE content because they really can't do mechanic driven dungeons anymore...the champion system has made everyone so powerful, that ZOS had to implement 1 shot mechanics like Enraged trash mob Atronach hitting for 260k damage just to make the content reasonably challenging because the Champion System has made us all so powerful that anything else would be a faceroll, and still is after a few runs in the dungeons.

in 1.3, 1.4, and 1.5 Zone chat was full of people needing help killing World Bosses in Zone, now anyone can kill any of them...my VR12 Sorc in End game Gear, even with Surge and 60% Crit was NOT able to solo a World Boss in the Rift in Caldwell's Gold prior to 1.6, after 300 CP i can kill any world boss alone including the ones in Craglorn even before the IPC came out...this is the problem.

the Champion System will never be addressed until these percentages are dialed back considerably...25% more damage, 24% larger sheilds, 15.8% more regen, 15% reduced cost reductions, etc are just too much....it turns the game into a faceroll and ZOS will be forced down the 1 shot mechanics road even more as long as they allow those bonuses to stand, and it will stifle the innovation they have to play with to give us good content.

You will never see dungeons with mechanics Black Heart Haven, Selene's Web, Arx Corinium, Direfrost Keep, or Blessed Crucible with mechanics more then just dealing damage and face rolling as long as the high percentages in the Champion system stay as they are.

Back in 1.3-1.5 there was actually strategy in beating Blackheart Haven, it wasn't just a DPS test, when your healer got turned into a Skeleton, you had to have a plan...Vet Spindle Clutch, the Praxin fight was difficult in 1.4 and 1.5 without the Champ System if you didn't have a strong group. Now both of those dungeons are a complete joke because of the Champion System.

I don't want Champ system caps, I want the percentages dialed back...the Champ System is supposed to be "icing on the cake" just something extra added in, its not supposed to be a game changer it currently is...once you hit 300 CP all the content in the game is pretty much a faceroll....Vet DSA in 1.5 compared to 1.6 with 300 CP is a joke...Im glad i got the Boethiah's Scythe when it actually meant something because Vet DSA was much more challenging back then.

I'd rather have a weaker character and much more engaging and challenging content then the faceroll we currently have...even the Top Raid guild's didn't want the new Dungeons nerfed because everything else in the game was a face roll, and they are facerolls in large part to the Champ System that ends up turning your character into Pelinal Whitestrake at 300 CP and you can kill 99% of the stuff in this game by yourself....we even had people soloing Bosses in Aetherian Archive in 1.6 due to how powerful the Champion System ends up making you, its a faceroll.

ZOS needs to just reduce the percentages of those bonuses so it don't matter how many points you acrue, you will never get strong enough to face roll everything like you can currently.

Just my 2 cents, lower the percentages, don't cap the points you can earn. i'd love to go back to more mechanic driven dungeons instead of 1 shot mecanics and DPS races....

DisgracefulMind

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

@ezareth @DisgracefulMind I am one who has been here since beta early access as well. I'll never be one to say im the best or the worst, as the 1st thing taught to me in martial arts was "As good as you are;there is always someone better then you" So im very humble.

that being said, I don't think the majority of the playerbase don't want folks like you two, me or anyone else who has been here a long time to be part of the community, I just think these are frustrations being born out of a game with some very lopsided mechanics, no game will ever be perfect, but ESO has many more lopsided opportunities then most.

However, beyond all that, im not in favor of a Champion Point cap.

I am however in favor that the bonuses need to be reduced...all the bonuses that give 25% at 100 points should give 9%, all the bonuses that give 15% at 100 points should give 5%

The biggest issue with the Champion System is the bonuses it gives the percentages are far too high. The Champion System was supposed to be a "Horizontal Progression System" it was supposed to add icing flavor to a cake you already liked, but what it has created is a Vertical Progression System tied to whomever earns the most XP is the strongest (with some exceptions of course).


Time spent should NOT equal stronger....Mobs killed should NOT = stronger....Gear Selection, Stat distribution, class-weapon synergy, tactics and skill SHOULD = stronger

This is why capping Champion Points isn;t the answer....reducing the bonuses they confer is.....24% more Elemental damage, physical damage, etc no wonder most of the PVE content in this game turned into a face roll in 1.6. My current character is immensely more powerful in 1.6 then he ever was in 1.5, at 300 CP PVE content in this game is a faceroll.

The Champion System is actually hurting ZOS ability to create quality PVE content because they really can't do mechanic driven dungeons anymore...the champion system has made everyone so powerful, that ZOS had to implement 1 shot mechanics like Enraged trash mob Atronach hitting for 260k damage just to make the content reasonably challenging because the Champion System has made us all so powerful that anything else would be a faceroll, and still is after a few runs in the dungeons.

in 1.3, 1.4, and 1.5 Zone chat was full of people needing help killing World Bosses in Zone, now anyone can kill any of them...my VR12 Sorc in End game Gear, even with Surge and 60% Crit was NOT able to solo a World Boss in the Rift in Caldwell's Gold prior to 1.6, after 300 CP i can kill any world boss alone including the ones in Craglorn even before the IPC came out...this is the problem.

the Champion System will never be addressed until these percentages are dialed back considerably...25% more damage, 24% larger sheilds, 15.8% more regen, 15% reduced cost reductions, etc are just too much....it turns the game into a faceroll and ZOS will be forced down the 1 shot mechanics road even more as long as they allow those bonuses to stand, and it will stifle the innovation they have to play with to give us good content.

You will never see dungeons with mechanics Black Heart Haven, Selene's Web, Arx Corinium, Direfrost Keep, or Blessed Crucible with mechanics more then just dealing damage and face rolling as long as the high percentages in the Champion system stay as they are.

Back in 1.3-1.5 there was actually strategy in beating Blackheart Haven, it wasn't just a DPS test, when your healer got turned into a Skeleton, you had to have a plan...Vet Spindle Clutch, the Praxin fight was difficult in 1.4 and 1.5 without the Champ System if you didn't have a strong group. Now both of those dungeons are a complete joke because of the Champion System.

I don't want Champ system caps, I want the percentages dialed back...the Champ System is supposed to be "icing on the cake" just something extra added in, its not supposed to be a game changer it currently is...once you hit 300 CP all the content in the game is pretty much a faceroll....Vet DSA in 1.5 compared to 1.6 with 300 CP is a joke...Im glad i got the Boethiah's Scythe when it actually meant something because Vet DSA was much more challenging back then.

I'd rather have a weaker character and much more engaging and challenging content then the faceroll we currently have...even the Top Raid guild's didn't want the new Dungeons nerfed because everything else in the game was a face roll, and they are facerolls in large part to the Champ System that ends up turning your character into Pelinal Whitestrake at 300 CP and you can kill 99% of the stuff in this game by yourself....we even had people soloing Bosses in Aetherian Archive in 1.6 due to how powerful the Champion System ends up making you, its a faceroll.

ZOS needs to just reduce the percentages of those bonuses so it don't matter how many points you acrue, you will never get strong enough to face roll everything like you can currently.

Just my 2 cents, lower the percentages, don't cap the points you can earn. i'd love to go back to more mechanic driven dungeons instead of 1 shot mecanics and DPS races....

Agreed completely. I think the solution lies deeper than capping a set amount of points. Thank you for this eloquent post.

Mojomonkeyman

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

@ezareth @DisgracefulMind I am one who has been here since beta early access as well. I'll never be one to say im the best or the worst, as the 1st thing taught to me in martial arts was "As good as you are;there is always someone better then you" So im very humble.

that being said, I don't think the majority of the playerbase don't want folks like you two, me or anyone else who has been here a long time to be part of the community, I just think these are frustrations being born out of a game with some very lopsided mechanics, no game will ever be perfect, but ESO has many more lopsided opportunities then most.

However, beyond all that, im not in favor of a Champion Point cap.

I am however in favor that the bonuses need to be reduced...all the bonuses that give 25% at 100 points should give 9%, all the bonuses that give 15% at 100 points should give 5%

The biggest issue with the Champion System is the bonuses it gives the percentages are far too high. The Champion System was supposed to be a "Horizontal Progression System" it was supposed to add icing flavor to a cake you already liked, but what it has created is a Vertical Progression System tied to whomever earns the most XP is the strongest (with some exceptions of course).


Time spent should NOT equal stronger....Mobs killed should NOT = stronger....Gear Selection, Stat distribution, class-weapon synergy, tactics and skill SHOULD = stronger

This is why capping Champion Points isn;t the answer....reducing the bonuses they confer is.....24% more Elemental damage, physical damage, etc no wonder most of the PVE content in this game turned into a face roll in 1.6. My current character is immensely more powerful in 1.6 then he ever was in 1.5, at 300 CP PVE content in this game is a faceroll.

The Champion System is actually hurting ZOS ability to create quality PVE content because they really can't do mechanic driven dungeons anymore...the champion system has made everyone so powerful, that ZOS had to implement 1 shot mechanics like Enraged trash mob Atronach hitting for 260k damage just to make the content reasonably challenging because the Champion System has made us all so powerful that anything else would be a faceroll, and still is after a few runs in the dungeons.

in 1.3, 1.4, and 1.5 Zone chat was full of people needing help killing World Bosses in Zone, now anyone can kill any of them...my VR12 Sorc in End game Gear, even with Surge and 60% Crit was NOT able to solo a World Boss in the Rift in Caldwell's Gold prior to 1.6, after 300 CP i can kill any world boss alone including the ones in Craglorn even before the IPC came out...this is the problem.

the Champion System will never be addressed until these percentages are dialed back considerably...25% more damage, 24% larger sheilds, 15.8% more regen, 15% reduced cost reductions, etc are just too much....it turns the game into a faceroll and ZOS will be forced down the 1 shot mechanics road even more as long as they allow those bonuses to stand, and it will stifle the innovation they have to play with to give us good content.

You will never see dungeons with mechanics Black Heart Haven, Selene's Web, Arx Corinium, Direfrost Keep, or Blessed Crucible with mechanics more then just dealing damage and face rolling as long as the high percentages in the Champion system stay as they are.

Back in 1.3-1.5 there was actually strategy in beating Blackheart Haven, it wasn't just a DPS test, when your healer got turned into a Skeleton, you had to have a plan...Vet Spindle Clutch, the Praxin fight was difficult in 1.4 and 1.5 without the Champ System if you didn't have a strong group. Now both of those dungeons are a complete joke because of the Champion System.

I don't want Champ system caps, I want the percentages dialed back...the Champ System is supposed to be "icing on the cake" just something extra added in, its not supposed to be a game changer it currently is...once you hit 300 CP all the content in the game is pretty much a faceroll....Vet DSA in 1.5 compared to 1.6 with 300 CP is a joke...Im glad i got the Boethiah's Scythe when it actually meant something because Vet DSA was much more challenging back then.

I'd rather have a weaker character and much more engaging and challenging content then the faceroll we currently have...even the Top Raid guild's didn't want the new Dungeons nerfed because everything else in the game was a face roll, and they are facerolls in large part to the Champ System that ends up turning your character into Pelinal Whitestrake at 300 CP and you can kill 99% of the stuff in this game by yourself....we even had people soloing Bosses in Aetherian Archive in 1.6 due to how powerful the Champion System ends up making you, its a faceroll.

ZOS needs to just reduce the percentages of those bonuses so it don't matter how many points you acrue, you will never get strong enough to face roll everything like you can currently.

Just my 2 cents, lower the percentages, don't cap the points you can earn. i'd love to go back to more mechanic driven dungeons instead of 1 shot mecanics and DPS races....

Good post.

RinaldoGandolphi

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

@ezareth @DisgracefulMind I am one who has been here since beta early access as well. I'll never be one to say im the best or the worst, as the 1st thing taught to me in martial arts was "As good as you are;there is always someone better then you" So im very humble.

that being said, I don't think the majority of the playerbase don't want folks like you two, me or anyone else who has been here a long time to be part of the community, I just think these are frustrations being born out of a game with some very lopsided mechanics, no game will ever be perfect, but ESO has many more lopsided opportunities then most.

However, beyond all that, im not in favor of a Champion Point cap.

I am however in favor that the bonuses need to be reduced...all the bonuses that give 25% at 100 points should give 9%, all the bonuses that give 15% at 100 points should give 5%

The biggest issue with the Champion System is the bonuses it gives the percentages are far too high. The Champion System was supposed to be a "Horizontal Progression System" it was supposed to add icing flavor to a cake you already liked, but what it has created is a Vertical Progression System tied to whomever earns the most XP is the strongest (with some exceptions of course).


Time spent should NOT equal stronger....Mobs killed should NOT = stronger....Gear Selection, Stat distribution, class-weapon synergy, tactics and skill SHOULD = stronger

This is why capping Champion Points isn;t the answer....reducing the bonuses they confer is.....24% more Elemental damage, physical damage, etc no wonder most of the PVE content in this game turned into a face roll in 1.6. My current character is immensely more powerful in 1.6 then he ever was in 1.5, at 300 CP PVE content in this game is a faceroll.

The Champion System is actually hurting ZOS ability to create quality PVE content because they really can't do mechanic driven dungeons anymore...the champion system has made everyone so powerful, that ZOS had to implement 1 shot mechanics like Enraged trash mob Atronach hitting for 260k damage just to make the content reasonably challenging because the Champion System has made us all so powerful that anything else would be a faceroll, and still is after a few runs in the dungeons.

in 1.3, 1.4, and 1.5 Zone chat was full of people needing help killing World Bosses in Zone, now anyone can kill any of them...my VR12 Sorc in End game Gear, even with Surge and 60% Crit was NOT able to solo a World Boss in the Rift in Caldwell's Gold prior to 1.6, after 300 CP i can kill any world boss alone including the ones in Craglorn even before the IPC came out...this is the problem.

the Champion System will never be addressed until these percentages are dialed back considerably...25% more damage, 24% larger sheilds, 15.8% more regen, 15% reduced cost reductions, etc are just too much....it turns the game into a faceroll and ZOS will be forced down the 1 shot mechanics road even more as long as they allow those bonuses to stand, and it will stifle the innovation they have to play with to give us good content.

You will never see dungeons with mechanics Black Heart Haven, Selene's Web, Arx Corinium, Direfrost Keep, or Blessed Crucible with mechanics more then just dealing damage and face rolling as long as the high percentages in the Champion system stay as they are.

Back in 1.3-1.5 there was actually strategy in beating Blackheart Haven, it wasn't just a DPS test, when your healer got turned into a Skeleton, you had to have a plan...Vet Spindle Clutch, the Praxin fight was difficult in 1.4 and 1.5 without the Champ System if you didn't have a strong group. Now both of those dungeons are a complete joke because of the Champion System.

I don't want Champ system caps, I want the percentages dialed back...the Champ System is supposed to be "icing on the cake" just something extra added in, its not supposed to be a game changer it currently is...once you hit 300 CP all the content in the game is pretty much a faceroll....Vet DSA in 1.5 compared to 1.6 with 300 CP is a joke...Im glad i got the Boethiah's Scythe when it actually meant something because Vet DSA was much more challenging back then.

I'd rather have a weaker character and much more engaging and challenging content then the faceroll we currently have...even the Top Raid guild's didn't want the new Dungeons nerfed because everything else in the game was a face roll, and they are facerolls in large part to the Champ System that ends up turning your character into Pelinal Whitestrake at 300 CP and you can kill 99% of the stuff in this game by yourself....we even had people soloing Bosses in Aetherian Archive in 1.6 due to how powerful the Champion System ends up making you, its a faceroll.

ZOS needs to just reduce the percentages of those bonuses so it don't matter how many points you acrue, you will never get strong enough to face roll everything like you can currently.

Just my 2 cents, lower the percentages, don't cap the points you can earn. i'd love to go back to more mechanic driven dungeons instead of 1 shot mecanics and DPS races....

Agreed completely. I think the solution lies deeper than capping a set amount of points. Thank you for this eloquent post.

Your welcome. I think reducing the percentages and letting people earn as many as they want is the way to go. The bonuses should be more optional (6-9%) just a little bonus, not the 15 and 24% they currently are...just reduce the percentages and let people continue earning em. I feel there is always compromise if one looks deep enough.

This will still allow people to work towards earning them, while at the time same time helping reduce the amount of facerolls in PVE and allow ZOS some more freedom when they create their new 12 man raids and new dungeons since they won't need as many 1 shot mechanics to make a challenging and engaging experience which should open up some creative avenues for them.

again just my 2 cents

xaraan

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

btw, I need 1.9 million xp for one champion point in the new system with diminishing returns

do we really even need a cap at that point? lol

Holy cow!

yea...

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

@ezareth @DisgracefulMind I am one who has been here since beta early access as well. I'll never be one to say im the best or the worst, as the 1st thing taught to me in martial arts was "As good as you are;there is always someone better then you" So im very humble.

that being said, I don't think the majority of the playerbase don't want folks like you two, me or anyone else who has been here a long time to be part of the community, I just think these are frustrations being born out of a game with some very lopsided mechanics, no game will ever be perfect, but ESO has many more lopsided opportunities then most.

However, beyond all that, im not in favor of a Champion Point cap.

I am however in favor that the bonuses need to be reduced...all the bonuses that give 25% at 100 points should give 9%, all the bonuses that give 15% at 100 points should give 5%

The biggest issue with the Champion System is the bonuses it gives the percentages are far too high. The Champion System was supposed to be a "Horizontal Progression System" it was supposed to add icing flavor to a cake you already liked, but what it has created is a Vertical Progression System tied to whomever earns the most XP is the strongest (with some exceptions of course).


Time spent should NOT equal stronger....Mobs killed should NOT = stronger....Gear Selection, Stat distribution, class-weapon synergy, tactics and skill SHOULD = stronger

This is why capping Champion Points isn;t the answer....reducing the bonuses they confer is.....24% more Elemental damage, physical damage, etc no wonder most of the PVE content in this game turned into a face roll in 1.6. My current character is immensely more powerful in 1.6 then he ever was in 1.5, at 300 CP PVE content in this game is a faceroll.

The Champion System is actually hurting ZOS ability to create quality PVE content because they really can't do mechanic driven dungeons anymore...the champion system has made everyone so powerful, that ZOS had to implement 1 shot mechanics like Enraged trash mob Atronach hitting for 260k damage just to make the content reasonably challenging because the Champion System has made us all so powerful that anything else would be a faceroll, and still is after a few runs in the dungeons.

in 1.3, 1.4, and 1.5 Zone chat was full of people needing help killing World Bosses in Zone, now anyone can kill any of them...my VR12 Sorc in End game Gear, even with Surge and 60% Crit was NOT able to solo a World Boss in the Rift in Caldwell's Gold prior to 1.6, after 300 CP i can kill any world boss alone including the ones in Craglorn even before the IPC came out...this is the problem.

the Champion System will never be addressed until these percentages are dialed back considerably...25% more damage, 24% larger sheilds, 15.8% more regen, 15% reduced cost reductions, etc are just too much....it turns the game into a faceroll and ZOS will be forced down the 1 shot mechanics road even more as long as they allow those bonuses to stand, and it will stifle the innovation they have to play with to give us good content.

You will never see dungeons with mechanics Black Heart Haven, Selene's Web, Arx Corinium, Direfrost Keep, or Blessed Crucible with mechanics more then just dealing damage and face rolling as long as the high percentages in the Champion system stay as they are.

Back in 1.3-1.5 there was actually strategy in beating Blackheart Haven, it wasn't just a DPS test, when your healer got turned into a Skeleton, you had to have a plan...Vet Spindle Clutch, the Praxin fight was difficult in 1.4 and 1.5 without the Champ System if you didn't have a strong group. Now both of those dungeons are a complete joke because of the Champion System.

I don't want Champ system caps, I want the percentages dialed back...the Champ System is supposed to be "icing on the cake" just something extra added in, its not supposed to be a game changer it currently is...once you hit 300 CP all the content in the game is pretty much a faceroll....Vet DSA in 1.5 compared to 1.6 with 300 CP is a joke...Im glad i got the Boethiah's Scythe when it actually meant something because Vet DSA was much more challenging back then.

I'd rather have a weaker character and much more engaging and challenging content then the faceroll we currently have...even the Top Raid guild's didn't want the new Dungeons nerfed because everything else in the game was a face roll, and they are facerolls in large part to the Champ System that ends up turning your character into Pelinal Whitestrake at 300 CP and you can kill 99% of the stuff in this game by yourself....we even had people soloing Bosses in Aetherian Archive in 1.6 due to how powerful the Champion System ends up making you, its a faceroll.

ZOS needs to just reduce the percentages of those bonuses so it don't matter how many points you acrue, you will never get strong enough to face roll everything like you can currently.

Just my 2 cents, lower the percentages, don't cap the points you can earn. i'd love to go back to more mechanic driven dungeons instead of 1 shot mecanics and DPS races....

Agreed completely. I think the solution lies deeper than capping a set amount of points. Thank you for this eloquent post.

Your welcome. I think reducing the percentages and letting people earn as many as they want is the way to go. The bonuses should be more optional (6-9%) just a little bonus, not the 15 and 24% they currently are...just reduce the percentages and let people continue earning em. I feel there is always compromise if one looks deep enough.

This will still allow people to work towards earning them, while at the time same time helping reduce the amount of facerolls in PVE and allow ZOS some more freedom when they create their new 12 man raids and new dungeons since they won't need as many 1 shot mechanics to make a challenging and engaging experience which should open up some creative avenues for them.

again just my 2 cents

i agree. i think the champion system needs the modification NOT the pre-existing systems. they made a bad situation with the IC adjustments, which are based on the champion system. now they HAVE to have the champion system largely intact. what pissed me off was they spent a theoretical 40 hours adjusting the entire game for the champion system, when they could have taken 20 to just adjust the champion system- it just didn't come off as time effective or worth while. if the champion system wasn't working as intended, why would you adjust everything BUT the champion system.

another avenue i thought of, is why not make enlightenment more available for players that are offline- increase the amount of enlightenment for offline players, and i mean >substantially<!! i am not out to belittle offline players, but if they are offline to get enough enlightenment for 2 points a day, i really couldn't care less. its like worrying about players that only grind- they only grind i will rarely come across them. i pvp, pve, i group, i raid, i solo, i farm..... i just don't give two *** about the guy next door so long as i am not negatively impacted. perhaps, base it off the total amount of time offline so essentially the 4 hour a day player essentially has enlightenment most of the time of that 4 hour window.

the guy that steam rolls players in PVP.... i just leave. i don't feed his farming campaign. i do scout missions, try to get resource-flipping groups or just go do crafting writs, grouping, or questing. then i come back when the situation is more advantageous and entertaining. i then use "that guy" to see where i need to adjust my point spending and reassess my situation.