The Death of the Dragonknight- updated 3/15/16

Huckdabuck

Rerolling Sorc/Templar/NB.....be back to raid in 2 weeks.

frozywozy

So yeah.. I just experimented my first experience as a stamknight on the different portals that give chests in IC sewers.. here is a breve resume of how it goes :

1) Expert hunter lvl 2
2) Caltrops lvl 3
3) Shooting Stars lvl 5
4) Whirlwind lvl 3 x5

All mobs dead. Ez mode

As a magicka DK I could barely solo portals. lol

Wollust

HeroOfNone wrote: »

There are a lot of other issues here, but I do need to get back to work sometime today. The biggest issue I see is DKS rave to be really tanky to be viable in PVP, be almost a hybrid in balancing the stamina and magicka regen, and have a crap ton of champion points to boost up the right abilities. Maybe they can really do well, but u think I'd see that happening more at the 600 CP mark.

Believe me, 600+ CP makes it easier, but doesn't change the fact that magicka dk overall is just a poor weakling these days.
It is not (only) about the championpoints but rather about the class skills, from which the damaging ones are kinda super strong for damage but just don't work out in PVP how we would like them to do.

Mumyo

DK synergizes very very well with stamina, u didnt count everything by far there is. Just as an example, u are the only class that has a physical dmg ult and u can push its dmg up by phys dmg champion points (thats unique).
Also ur shield pushes every healing received by 30% that also works just fine with vigor and rally.

Actually just everything on a dk makes sence and works on a huge variety of builds.... maybe the issue is not the dk, its you and other classes being OP or too eas to play- like sorc

OrphanHelgen

frozywozy wrote: »

So yeah.. I just experimented my first experience as a stamknight on the different portals that give chests in IC sewers.. here is a breve resume of how it goes :

1) Expert hunter lvl 2
2) Caltrops lvl 3
3) Shooting Stars lvl 5
4) Whirlwind lvl 3 x5

All mobs dead. Ez mode

As a magicka DK I could barely solo portals. lol

Where is your DK skill? All this are skills that everyone have access to. If you where a templar and used same skills, you would have more weapond dmg and crit dmg.

Teridaxus

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

So yeah.. I just experimented my first experience as a stamknight on the different portals that give chests in IC sewers.. here is a breve resume of how it goes :

1) Expert hunter lvl 2
2) Caltrops lvl 3
3) Shooting Stars lvl 5
4) Whirlwind lvl 3 x5

All mobs dead. Ez mode

As a magicka DK I could barely solo portals. lol

Where is your DK skill? All this are skills that everyone have access to. If you where a templar and used same skills, you would have more weapond dmg and crit dmg. Can people in this forum please read the post and remember what it is about?!

You should read his last line again.

OrphanHelgen

mzapkeneb18_ESO wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

So yeah.. I just experimented my first experience as a stamknight on the different portals that give chests in IC sewers.. here is a breve resume of how it goes :

1) Expert hunter lvl 2
2) Caltrops lvl 3
3) Shooting Stars lvl 5
4) Whirlwind lvl 3 x5

All mobs dead. Ez mode

As a magicka DK I could barely solo portals. lol

Where is your DK skill? All this are skills that everyone have access to. If you where a templar and used same skills, you would have more weapond dmg and crit dmg. Can people in this forum please read the post and remember what it is about?!

You should read his last line again.

Sry if I missunderstood and I know he ment mag DK not good. But its not a DK skills to use.

OrphanHelgen

Idea for DK:
Everytime you deal damage with dragonknight skill, get major sorcery and major brutality for 2 second.

Azarath_tiberius

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Idea for DK:
Everytime you deal damage with dragonknight skill, get major sorcery and major brutality for 2 second.

That's would give a 100% up time if it also procs every time our DoTs tick, which other classes will find OP since they'll have to use potions or abilities to get that buff.

If they want to give us access to major brutality / sorcery ,through class skills, then they should revert molten weapons to what it was pre 1.6. Or ,maybe , give molten weapons the minor brutality / sorcery buff so the combination of Rally + MW or Entropy + MW will give 28% increased weapon / spell dmg. That might compensate for the lack of dmg we got.

Also, ditch Stonefist and make it a gap closer or an actual execute.

IxSTALKERxI

Dk's definately need to be looked at. GDB for example is a pretty useless skill after the blanket battle spirit nerf.

There is still hope though. There are 2 very competitive dk builds going around.

One is a stam DK with high armor/ spell resist + sustain.

The other is Skaffa. He's running a tanky magicka dk build that will beat most people in a duel. Definitely worth hitting him up for a fight if you see him around.

Dk's definately need some improvements though, they shouldn't be forced to choose between 2 builds to be competitive and some of their skills just aren't worth using.

nothing2591

i dont understand all you cry babies... dual wield magicka dk is stronger than ever, noone is using nirn so petrify -> shooting star is a guaranteed kill about half the time, BUT i guess you would need 600cp like this pro player right here And you dont go tank and kill stuff solo its as simple as that , glass cannon or go home.

aco5712

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Dk's definately need to be looked at. GDB for example is a pretty useless skill after the blanket battle spirit nerf.

There is still hope though. There are 2 very competitive dk builds going around.

One is a stam DK with high armor/ spell resist + sustain.

The other is Skaffa. He's running a tanky magicka dk build that will beat most people in a duel. Definitely worth hitting him up for a fight if you see him around.

Dk's definately need some improvements though, they shouldn't be forced to choose between 2 builds to be competitive and some of their skills just aren't worth using.

@IxSTALKERxI no offence intended to skaffa he is a very good player but he has 800+ CP at least. He was on 750 before IC went live and everytime i see him in guild roster he is in cracked wood. You cant compare his build and set up to the average player because they are miles apart.

IxSTALKERxI

Yeah that's very true, he would have double the CP of most people.

Sanct16

nothing2591 wrote: »

i dont understand all you cry babies... dual wield magicka dk is stronger than ever, noone is using nirn so petrify -> shooting star is a guaranteed kill about half the time, BUT i guess you would need 600cp like this pro player right here And you dont go tank and kill stuff solo its as simple as that , glass cannon or go home.

Ok, I can understand that the OP was a long text and thus hard to understand. Let me comprehend quickly what the problems with DKs atm are that we complain about.

Jules wrote: »

1. LACK OF CLASS MOBILITY:
2. NO RANGE:
3. LACK OF DAMAGE:

You even describe the problem yourself: Either go glass cannon or go home. But the question is how does a class without any way to disengage a fight survive as glass cannon? Sorcs can stay on distance with Streak and quickly burst opponents down. Nightblades can use cloak to reposition and go offensive again when there is a good opportunity. DKs suffer a LACK OF CLASS MOBILITY: but need to go into melee range to use their dots because they have NO RANGE:. Moreover except their dots they have no damage so against everyone who knows how to counter dot damage (cloak, purge, cp into thick-skinned, etc) DKs have a LACK OF DAMAGE:.

Of course Dk is still playable but its not on the same level as other classes.

OrphanHelgen

Sanct16 wrote: »

nothing2591 wrote: »

i dont understand all you cry babies... dual wield magicka dk is stronger than ever, noone is using nirn so petrify -> shooting star is a guaranteed kill about half the time, BUT i guess you would need 600cp like this pro player right here And you dont go tank and kill stuff solo its as simple as that , glass cannon or go home.

Ok, I can understand that the OP was a long text and thus hard to understand. Let me comprehend quickly what the problems with DKs atm are that we complain about.

Jules wrote: »

1. LACK OF CLASS MOBILITY:
2. NO RANGE:
3. LACK OF DAMAGE:

You even describe the problem yourself: Either go glass cannon or go home. But the question is how does a class without any way to disengage a fight survive as glass cannon? Sorcs can stay on distance with Streak and quickly burst opponents down. Nightblades can use cloak to reposition and go offensive again when there is a good opportunity. DKs suffer a LACK OF CLASS MOBILITY: but need to go into melee range to use their dots because they have NO RANGE:. Moreover except their dots they have no damage so against everyone who knows how to counter dot damage (cloak, purge, cp into thick-skinned, etc) DKs have a LACK OF DAMAGE:.

Of course Dk is still playable but its not on the same level as other classes.

Agree, but also, its ok for them to be full melee class, but they have to benefit from it then. Like haveing the major defile debuff as a class skill, or other buffs/debuffs as a class skill. Not being force to slot 1h and shield for the buffs/debuffs.. If they have that, I have no problem with lack of mobility as a DK. But they need advantage in other ways then.. There should be a scary thing to jump into a DK melee, right now, its not.

Dan_Fazzyub17_ESO

Don't let this thread die like the Dragonknights have.

Lord_Hev

I cant play how I want to play ZOS. Magicka DK is ruined and this patch is forcing me to go stam. It's ruining my immershion.

Legedric

Sorry but unfortunately this is the wrong forum as ZOS barely reacts on anything written in here

Teargrants

Dan_Fazzyub17_ESO wrote: »

Don't let this thread die like the Dragonknights have.

Maybe this thread should just use GDB...oh wait.

Lord_Hev wrote: »

I cant play how I want to play ZOS. Magicka DK is ruined and this patch is forcing me to go stam. It's ruining my immershion.

Pft, DK immershuns was ruined the day they made it so I couldn't "Press 'E' to talk to" Standards. Srsly, wtfbbq ZOS?? #biggestnerfever

Nafirian

DK does feel so much weaker when compared against the other classes and i feel stronger when i play my other classes but i still love my DK. DKs need to have GBD (Green Dragon Blood and its morphs buffed) Also our lack of mobility and a gap closer is a big issue and the mist form change and mistofrm being "stunned" when a gap closer is used on you has really messed us up all they need to do is change a few things and DKs will be on par with the other classes but not their old ROFL Permabats etc etc etc.

Sanct16

Nafirian wrote: »

DK does feel so much weaker when compared against the other classes and i feel stronger when i play my other classes but i still love my DK. DKs need to have GBD (Green Dragon Blood and its morphs buffed) Also our lack of mobility and a gap closer is a big issue and the mist form change and mistofrm being "stunned" when a gap closer is used on you has really messed us up all they need to do is change a few things and DKs will be on par with the other classes but not their old ROFL Permabats etc etc etc.

Reflect nerf would have been enough. It was biggest ultimate gain because of all those *** feeding dk ultimate.

Docmandu

One thing to be careful of is that we as players usually develop tunnel vision.. while I'm not trying to refute the OP's claim, but if you take something like GDB, everybody claims it's useless.. but everybody only looks at the heal it gives in PvP.

And while I'm mostly a PvP player myself, I do realize that ZOS looks at the total picture (when they're not nerfing the next spell by using a darts board to pick the new effect :P ).

If you take GDB, it probably still works perfectly fine in PvE. Also it does much more than just the heal, which we all use it for. ie. "Also grants Major Fortitude and Major Endurance, increasing Health and Stamina Regeneration by 20% for 20 seconds." -- and yes I know you can get that from a potion, but that means you put your potion use on a re-use timer. The skill also has an impact on your character via the passives a DK has:

- Increases healing received by 12% while a Draconic Power ability is active.
- Increases Health recovery by 5% for each Draconic Power ability slotted.

In other words.. the heal is just 1 part of the benefits of the skill.

It's like all the NBs that only look at Cloak and don't count the passives that interact with cloak to make it even stronger.


All that said, are DKs in a good spot?! Don't know, only have a level 49 one, so I'll refrain from commenting on the actual issues with the class.

Bashev

Docmandu wrote: »

One thing to be careful of is that we as players usually develop tunnel vision.. while I'm not trying to refute the OP's claim, but if you take something like GDB, everybody claims it's useless.. but everybody only looks at the heal it gives in PvP.

And while I'm mostly a PvP player myself, I do realize that ZOS looks at the total picture (when they're not nerfing the next spell by using a darts board to pick the new effect :P ).

If you take GDB, it probably still works perfectly fine in PvE. Also it does much more than just the heal, which we all use it for. ie. "Also grants Major Fortitude and Major Endurance, increasing Health and Stamina Regeneration by 20% for 20 seconds." -- and yes I know you can get that from a potion, but that means you put your potion use on a re-use timer. The skill also has an impact on your character via the passives a DK has:

- Increases healing received by 12% while a Draconic Power ability is active.
- Increases Health recovery by 5% for each Draconic Power ability slotted.

In other words.. the heal is just 1 part of the benefits of the skill.

It's like all the NBs that only look at Cloak and don't count the passives that interact with cloak to make it even stronger.


All that said, are DKs in a good spot?! Don't know, only have a level 49 one, so I'll refrain from commenting on the actual issues with the class.

Even with the passives the skill is useless in PvP. According to me the skill would be better if the buffs were minor and not major. Cause as you said they are useless when you use potions.

aco5712

ZOS needs to make a exception on skills that scale of certain %s. Like blazing shield and GDB

Ishammael

Here is a good start:

Fix Flappy Flapps (projectiles from stealth)
Unnerf Dragon Blood
Add Major or Minor Heroism to Inferno
One morph chains pull enemies to you (gives CC immunity, Empower Buff, 24m, mostly for PvE)
One morphs pulls you to enemies (no CC immunity, AoE Fire DoT at enemy location, 24m, Empower Buff)

Erudition

So true Jules DK's have been hurt even more than sorcs I've come to realise. Just be a stam for now I guess. Magicka has been uber nerfed for all classes unless you're a NB or Temp (those guys are living large).

babanovac

Ishammael wrote: »

Here is a good start:

Fix Flappy Flapps (projectiles from stealth)
Unnerf Dragon Blood
Add Major or Minor Heroism to Inferno
One morph chains pull enemies to you (gives CC immunity, Empower Buff, 24m, mostly for PvE)
One morphs pulls you to enemies (no CC immunity, AoE Fire DoT at enemy location, 24m, Empower Buff)

And Standard back to 200 Ultimates, pretty please.

HeroOfNone

Biggest issue I've seen with the DK is the attacks are not fast. You can land some powerful hits with a "fully charged heavy attack" with Molten Armaments, but you get no benefit with attack weaving or canceling the attack. In PVE when you might not have aggro that might be ok, but in PVP it requires a lot of setup to do the heavy attack, hopefully stun, hit the next ability, heavy sttack, execute, heavy attack, and hope they are dead. Compare this to the quick spam folks do with surprise attack, biting jabs, or spell spam till crystal frags is up, and it's like we're playing s big lumbering NPC with the huge telegraphing attack.

Seems we could benefit from a skills that would speed things up. Maybe some buff that gives us a passive weighted trait when slotted, or similar spamable abilities like other classes on the stamina side. On the magicka side, maybe changel the dragon line to give magicka regen, straight magicka, or spell power for each dragonic ability there, give something to help boost the flame whip and survivability combo.

Moglijuana

I've actually been having a blast with my new vet 2 Magicka DK...I guess I'll like it even more if they decide to buff DK's again . The lack of an execute is definitely something that would complete my build for pvp. Maybe some minor buffs to GDB too =P.

Ishammael

babanovac wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Here is a good start:

Fix Flappy Flapps (projectiles from stealth)
Unnerf Dragon Blood
Add Major or Minor Heroism to Inferno
One morph chains pull enemies to you (gives CC immunity, Empower Buff, 24m, mostly for PvE)
One morphs pulls you to enemies (no CC immunity, AoE Fire DoT at enemy location, 24m, Empower Buff)

And Standard back to 200 Ultimates, pretty please.

I forgot that! Thanks for reminding me, agreed!