The Death of the Dragonknight- updated 3/15/16

Teargrants

Jules wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Fruitdog wrote: »

Now we're trying to hire lobbyists to deal with ZOS like it's some ridiculous bureaucratic entity. LOL, ZOS is literally as bad as Congress!

Master_Kas wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

JDar wrote: »

Cloak gets nerfed or DK's get buffed. Choose one.

It think even Hellen Keller could see that cloak does far too many things already.

Disappear
Drop combat
Purge dots
Come out of stealth with 10% increase to damage
Resume combat
Repeat

In order to do all of this as a dk, I would need to:
Crouch
Use environment to evade enemies and then sneak away and wait
Use purge
Use 1/2 an entropy on another target or pop 1/2 a spell power pot
Resume combat
Repeat

Um... yea.

Also, evidence above proves dk needs a buff. So if I have to choose one or the other id rather jump off a bridge considering it's imperative to the health of the game that both happen.

Hope you dont mean drop combat as in leaving combat? Not possible with cloak, and when the duration is over I either cloak again or stand there unable to crouch

Not disagreeing with anything, just question about that statement

Yes I do mean leave combat. To me, they mean the same.

Go to bed.

Already went to bed and woke up. Learn to adult bro.

And you claim your DK is a vampire. You're breaking my immershuns, reported.

Armitas

Jules wrote: »

Learn to adult bro.

Don't do it, it's a traaaaaap!

Rust_in_Peace

Jules wrote: »

Sounds like a nb who doesn't understand the game.

1. I'm not a guy
2. You just said play to your class' strengths and then listed a bunch of weapon skills. So like... Please try using logic sometime.
3. If you want burst damage and sustain simply run a stam nightblade with drinks. I never run out of stamina and can stack to 4k-5k weapon damage, buffed

1. no one cares
2. i said you dont need class specific skills for the things you want: like gap closers and executes, use you class skills for utility/cc. logic is hard amirite?
3. no one cares, good for you fam tbh imo

Bashev

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Sounds like a nb who doesn't understand the game.

1. I'm not a guy
2. You just said play to your class' strengths and then listed a bunch of weapon skills. So like... Please try using logic sometime.
3. If you want burst damage and sustain simply run a stam nightblade with drinks. I never run out of stamina and can stack to 4k-5k weapon damage, buffed

1. no one cares
2. i said you dont need class specific skills for the things you want: like gap closers and executes, use you class skills for utility/cc. logic is hard amirite?
3. no one cares, good for you fam tbh imo

I guess you play the game since 1.6. You can enjoy your OP NB now. The worst thing is that you dont know what is to be underpowered cause you missed it when at the launch NBs were at DKs' shoes.

Joy_Division

Winterpsy wrote: »

*sigh*Jeeez folks. Some comments reeks of PCer superiority.

The playtime, which in your eyes the biggest reason, why my arguments cannot be taken seriously, has nothing to do with makeing observations.

LOL.

You think the observations of a neophyte are somehow equivalent to those that have extensive experience?

Maybe you are right. I'm going to ask my twelve year old nephew to give me his insights on the crisis in the Ukraine.

Ishammael

Jules wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Fruitdog wrote: »

Now we're trying to hire lobbyists to deal with ZOS like it's some ridiculous bureaucratic entity. LOL, ZOS is literally as bad as Congress!

Master_Kas wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

JDar wrote: »

Cloak gets nerfed or DK's get buffed. Choose one.

It think even Hellen Keller could see that cloak does far too many things already.

Disappear
Drop combat
Purge dots
Come out of stealth with 10% increase to damage
Resume combat
Repeat

In order to do all of this as a dk, I would need to:
Crouch
Use environment to evade enemies and then sneak away and wait
Use purge
Use 1/2 an entropy on another target or pop 1/2 a spell power pot
Resume combat
Repeat

Um... yea.

Also, evidence above proves dk needs a buff. So if I have to choose one or the other id rather jump off a bridge considering it's imperative to the health of the game that both happen.

Hope you dont mean drop combat as in leaving combat? Not possible with cloak, and when the duration is over I either cloak again or stand there unable to crouch

Not disagreeing with anything, just question about that statement

Yes I do mean leave combat. To me, they mean the same.

Go to bed.

Already went to bed and woke up. Learn to adult bro.

Rekt

Yonkit

I read the last couple pages and, I think I speak for myself and my altar ego when I say, the ***?

This console lackie is really trying to say he knows anything about a DK, he made one intelligent statement that lost it's intelligence when he said we have an entirely different passive. I'm not trying to be rude here but, you're trying to act like the new guy at a construction team with two weeks of experience as opposed to say a construction manager with twenty years experience.

OrphanHelgen

Yonkit wrote: »

I read the last couple pages and, I think I speak for myself and my altar ego when I say, the ***?

This console lackie is really trying to say he knows anything about a DK, he made one intelligent statement that lost it's intelligence when he said we have an entirely different passive. I'm not trying to be rude here but, you're trying to act like the new guy at a construction team with two weeks of experience as opposed to say a construction manager with twenty years experience.

#Yep

Jules

Joy_Division wrote: »

Winterpsy wrote: »

*sigh*Jeeez folks. Some comments reeks of PCer superiority.

The playtime, which in your eyes the biggest reason, why my arguments cannot be taken seriously, has nothing to do with makeing observations.

LOL.

You think the observations of a neophyte are somehow equivalent to those that have extensive experience?

Maybe you are right. I'm going to ask my twelve year old nephew to give me his insights on the crisis in the Ukraine.

Rekt.


But truthfully, what we really all need to care about here is not the ramblings of 1 kid from console on how DK is okay. Changing his mind and trolling him about his opinions is not important enough to derail the thread and get it shut down.

While many thought that 2.1 would revolve around sustainability, they were wrong. Sustainability is of course a factor, but its not the name of the game. And it is easily managed with enchantments, mundus and the champion point system. With the nerfs to healing and damage, burst is more important than ever. I have very rarely been in a fight in 2.1 where I died due to the length of the fight & lack of resources. I most often die because the opponent's damage combo is stronger of a 1-2-punch than mine is.

Sure, burst is not anywhere near as high as 1.6 and ttk is higher. But the issue is that DK cannot do damage in the same way other classes can. They do not have high burst, they have dots and utility skills that used to allow them WITHSTAND the burst. However the changes to block and subsequent changes to mist form, ect, have made the ability to withstand burst -the dk specialty- a memory of the past.

The sole purpose is to express that the class is LOST as we cannot compete burst damage wise and we were stripped of many of the tools we used to survive which outweighed this.

Rust_in_Peace

#stopconsolebullying

Jules

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Sounds like a nb who doesn't understand the game.

1. I'm not a guy
2. You just said play to your class' strengths and then listed a bunch of weapon skills. So like... Please try using logic sometime.
3. If you want burst damage and sustain simply run a stam nightblade with drinks. I never run out of stamina and can stack to 4k-5k weapon damage, buffed

1. no one cares
2. i said you dont need class specific skills for the things you want: like gap closers and executes, use you class skills for utility/cc. logic is hard amirite?
3. no one cares, good for you fam tbh imo

1. It wasn't meant as an "I'm a girl so listen to me" moment. It was meant as a "Hey you called me a dude, just fyi, I'm not." I'm pretty sure if someone flagrantly just presumed you were a female (which I'm doing now), you'd probably correct them.

2. Idk how this concept is difficult for you. My class has no gap closer and execute while ALL. THREE. OTHER. CLASSES. DO. The only one of either of these that are available to all through weapon skills are ALL. STAMINA. WEAPONS. Should I type more in caps with pauses or do you understand how that is problematic yet?

Fruitdog

#CONSOLELIVESMATTER

Joy_Division

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

#stopconsolebullying

I wasn't console bullying. I was responding to his dubious assertion "The playtime, which in your eyes the biggest reason, why my arguments cannot be taken seriously, has nothing to do with makeing observations."

Nothing to do with consoles. The poster himself acknowledged the playtime gap existed.

Edit: and "reeks of PCer superiority."

#yeahfordoublestandards

Azarath_tiberius

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

#stopconsolebullying

In general stop BSing. We've read enough about consoles, NBs and whatever else got mentioned on the last pages of this thread. In the end, who cares?

The only reason to continue the discussion is the slight, thin possibility that maybe, just MAYBE a dev would see our concerns / suggestions / rambling and would do anything to make this class.. decent again.

Also, just an opinion here. I've personally made peace with the fact that DKs wont see jack **** until the next DLC, which will probably be at the end of year. So that gives us ~3 months time to get some attention on the matter. Make it count, or whatever... I don't care


@ZOS_RichLambert can I get a "/lurk" or a double "Hmm." post? in a thread that for once actually maters?

Asmael

Molten weapons

• Now applies a fire DoT that deals X damage over 10 seconds (12 at rank IV)
• Deals higher damage to target below 50% HP, up to 300% extra damage (330% at rank IV)
• Igneous weapons still adds 2 seconds to the duration after a fully charged heavy attack
• Molten armaments increases the damage of heavy attacks by 40%

-> Still the DK's fire theme
-> Still the DK's DoT theme
-> Just a billion times better

One problem solved. Next?

Takllin

Asmael wrote: »

Molten weapons

• Now applies a fire DoT that deals X damage over 10 seconds (12 at rank IV)
• Deals higher damage to target below 50% HP, up to 300% extra damage (330% at rank IV)
• Igneous weapons still adds 2 seconds to the duration after a fully charged heavy attack
• Molten armaments increases the damage of heavy attacks by 40%

-> Still the DK's fire theme
-> Still the DK's DoT theme
-> Just a billion times better

One problem solved. Next?

DK's don't need moar DoTs, they need big damage abilities and an actual execute.

Maulkin

Takllin wrote: »

Asmael wrote: »

Molten weapons

• Now applies a fire DoT that deals X damage over 10 seconds (12 at rank IV)
• Deals higher damage to target below 50% HP, up to 300% extra damage (330% at rank IV)
• Igneous weapons still adds 2 seconds to the duration after a fully charged heavy attack
• Molten armaments increases the damage of heavy attacks by 40%

-> Still the DK's fire theme
-> Still the DK's DoT theme
-> Just a billion times better

One problem solved. Next?

DK's don't need moar DoTs, they need big damage abilities and an actual execute.

DK's don't need more burst damage and executes. They have plenty of damage as it is. If that's what you want then I think you are in the wrong class tbh.

The theme for DKs is tankiness and high DPS through plenty of DoTs but not high burst. What the class needs is primarily for GDB to not suck and secondarily a magicka gap closer since all the skills are <7m range basically (stone fist still crap). These two changes alone will free DKs and allow them to experiment with more setups.

Everything else falls into "nice to have" rather than "need" category.

Talcyndl

Takllin wrote: »

DK's don't need moar DoTs, they need big damage abilities and an actual execute.

Especially since DoTs are so routinely and easily purged/cleansed.

Takllin

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Asmael wrote: »

Molten weapons

• Now applies a fire DoT that deals X damage over 10 seconds (12 at rank IV)
• Deals higher damage to target below 50% HP, up to 300% extra damage (330% at rank IV)
• Igneous weapons still adds 2 seconds to the duration after a fully charged heavy attack
• Molten armaments increases the damage of heavy attacks by 40%

-> Still the DK's fire theme
-> Still the DK's DoT theme
-> Just a billion times better

One problem solved. Next?

DK's don't need moar DoTs, they need big damage abilities and an actual execute.

DK's don't need more burst damage and executes. They have plenty of damage as it is. If that's what you want then I think you are in the wrong class tbh.

The theme for DKs is tankiness and high DPS through plenty of DoTs but not high burst. What the class needs is primarily for GDB to not suck and secondarily a magicka gap closer since all the skills are <7m range basically (stone fist still crap). These two changes alone will free DKs and allow them to experiment with more setups.

Everything else falls into "nice to have" rather than "need" category.

Sorry I should have added if your going to add in damage abilities, they don't need more DoTs but big damage abilities and an actual execute.

Agreed on everything else though.

frozywozy

manny254 wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Winterpsy wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Winterpsy wrote: »

Melee skills come in forms of weapon abilities.
Dks have support-melee skills : petrify, cinder storm, talons, stone fist.

Knock 'em down, root 'em , snare 'em, roast them, before they get tenderdized by a f*cking big sword or a shield.

That aside, why the need to go pure class skills? Best combos I've tried always have different skilltrees mixed up together.

its a cooldown of 7 seconds on hard cc.. what you wanna do meanwhile? block?

Is that really a question? DKs have means such as every other class too. Access to damage creating weapons and tools.
Dual wield, two-hander, destro staff, bow, whatever strikes your fancy.

I am saying while DKs dont have a ton of damage dealing abilties they have a ton of CCs, snares, not to mention defensive skills.

Comparing one class to another is like comparing apples to pears.

Nb for example have these in skills that DK dont have:
Speed buff, aoe unblockable hard CC, major defile, major sorcery, major brutality, stamina gap closer, empower buff.. etc etc.. all this really importent!

So every class that cannot do all those things is bad at stamina? Hate to break it to you but templar and Sorc also do not have all those things.

One of the biggest problems with this game is that people try to copy the other classes instead of using what makes their own class strong. No one can come up with anything until someone else posts a cookie cutter build, and someone like sypher makes a video with it.

People are not trying to copy other classes, people are trying to give the possibility to get the same damage / survivability and balance between them no matter the class you play. This is what was promised in the beginning.

Sanct16 wrote: »

@Winterspy

of course the basics of this game aren't too hard to learn but its still a huge portion of experience related to the outcome of a battle. The console release was 3,5 months ago. Lets assume that the average enemy you encounter is not a PC transfer but an original console player. How long does it take to get v14? Given that most players are new to the game and don't know how to speedlevel at grinding spots but actually does Quests, etc I think it is reasonable to assume that the 1st month after release was needed to get to maxlevel. So thats 2,5 months of actual real life time. Since barely anyone has optimal gear/builds the level of competition is naturally lower than on PC.

On PC the players had WAY more time to get used to their classes and learn what to do in which situations, which skills to use effectively and so on. Many things you only learn by playing the game and learning from your mistakes. In an environment where most players are new to the game being good is easy as you will find many enemies without any clue what they do.

While I would consider myself one of the best magicka DKs on EU server but when I play my Sorc which I have more than 25 days /played time on I would only consider myself mediocre. Of course I know which skills to use and how to play in theory, but making the right decision within a fraction of a second is something that requires practice. The average PC player will have way more experience than console players. Moreover especially the first ~300 CP are very noticeable and while most console players wont have this amount, on PC there are many people with way more than that.

Claiming that console players are comparable to PC players is basically saying your skill progression playing a certain class stop less than 2,5 months after the start of the game which is just wrong.

I am glad that DK is working for you and I do think that Stam DK is still better off than magicka DK. However as someone who has more than 140 days of /played time with magicka DK I can assure you that everything the OP said regarded the problems DKs have is true for magicka DK and that I do believe magicka DK needs some adjustments.

On a sidenote: The thing about Ultimate generating faster on console was spread by @Sypher.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/175954/result-of-character-copied-accounts-to-console/p1

Well said, I support all of the above as a magicka DK with 174days of playtime (switched to stamina yesterday for the first time).

Winterpsy wrote: »

*sigh*Jeeez folks. Some comments reeks of PCer superiority.

The playtime, which in your eyes the biggest reason, why my arguments cannot be taken seriously, has nothing to do with makeing observations.

Bringing up, that listing a class's weaknessess makes the discussion too one sided.
Threads like these can be created to every single class,people complaining about their inferiority.

Which actually happens,if you read the forums.

Topics after topics appear how this class is OP over that class. (And many of these were complaining how DKs are OP)

This game is no chess, does not have that deep complexity to require glorious years of playtime to authorize the gamer for comments without being bashed.
Surely there' different between reaction time, and decision making in the heat of action. But guess what good thing these are general skills developed by not only this game, but games in usual, and I havent started gaming in general 3 month ago. By which I am not saying there is no difference between a 1 year player and a 3 month one. There is.
But the time is good enough to get the feeling of class abilities,weaknesses and strength.

There are way to many factors and variables to compare the different classes.

If we check the statistics how many players playing DKs, or how many DKs are on top of leaderboards through platforms, or how many are emperors, or how many DKs are fully capable doing end game content, that would give a good idea weather the class is so unbalanced that none can make achivements with that.

And that statistics, the full report is likely with the company of ZoS.

That aside I am agreement that that healing nerf atop the rest practically gutted the dragon blood abilities to the point that in Cyrodil is not beneficial anymore to have it on the bar. We are better of with Vigor but that consumes that precious stamina as well. But with the damage redux in PvP zones, they dont take that much damage either.
But that's a common issue of tanky builds not just DKs. Still what makes the DKs better tanky characters even in Cyrodil?

Their passives which are still uniqe to the class, block cost redux, ulti still restores their resources, the still get extra healing compared to others, after each draconic power skill slotted,they still have higher hp regen, extra spell resistance and so on.
They still do better in the tanky roles than any other character setups.
Yes, the time's over when one could hold up a small army by holding the block high.

There are two major factors that you totally have no idea of :

1) The nerfs of the DK for the past 9months. There are plenty of threads in the forums naming them.
2) The theorycrafting behind the game since most of the stats are hidden and not available in the API for addon makers.

Some people figured alot of stats by themselves but it took them alot of time, maths and theorycrafting. You cannot come here and say that after 2.5months of playtime, you know everything about the game mechanisms and that all we have is more is reaction time and situation awareness.

This game is alot more complex than you think it is and there are still plenty of concepts that need to be clarified such as ultimates scaling off physical or spell damage, mace penetration not affecting spell dmg and such. There are alot of small details that make the game really complicated to figure out because only the most important stats will appear in your character panel unlike other mmos.

Yonkit

Joy_Division wrote: »

Winterpsy wrote: »

*sigh*Jeeez folks. Some comments reeks of PCer superiority.

The playtime, which in your eyes the biggest reason, why my arguments cannot be taken seriously, has nothing to do with makeing observations.

LOL.

You think the observations of a neophyte are somehow equivalent to those that have extensive experience?

Maybe you are right. I'm going to ask my twelve year old nephew to give me his insights on the crisis in the Ukraine.

The joke's on you! I've been training your nephew on the cultural/economic/sociopolitical issues of Ukraine for the past month. He is now an expert.

SUCK IT

Azarath_tiberius

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Asmael wrote: »

Molten weapons

• Now applies a fire DoT that deals X damage over 10 seconds (12 at rank IV)
• Deals higher damage to target below 50% HP, up to 300% extra damage (330% at rank IV)
• Igneous weapons still adds 2 seconds to the duration after a fully charged heavy attack
• Molten armaments increases the damage of heavy attacks by 40%

-> Still the DK's fire theme
-> Still the DK's DoT theme
-> Just a billion times better

One problem solved. Next?

DK's don't need moar DoTs, they need big damage abilities and an actual execute.

DK's don't need more burst damage and executes. They have plenty of damage as it is. If that's what you want then I think you are in the wrong class tbh.

The theme for DKs is tankiness and high DPS through plenty of DoTs but not high burst. What the class needs is primarily for GDB to not suck and secondarily a magicka gap closer since all the skills are <7m range basically (stone fist still crap). These two changes alone will free DKs and allow them to experiment with more setups.

Everything else falls into "nice to have" rather than "need" category.

Buffing GDB and a magicka gap closer would only partially solve the issue. It doesn't address the lack of useful skills you can have as a stamina user, the fact that we are the most heavily close range class with zero mobility (even if you give a gap closer), the class with too many CCs (stonefist is useless, since we have Petrify. Thanks for buffing it tho ZOS..) and then we have class abilities that are really buggy - namely, chains, Dragon Fire Scales not reflecting ranged stealth attacks, Magma Armor (which I doubt caps any kind of dmg, whatever the F that means) and of course Petrify (probably the 2nd most hated DK ability after Scales).

With that in mind, picture a DK that is "tanky" (as much tanky one can be after 1.7) with our DOTs as main source of dps, in PvP...

Why we need an execute? Because in the current state of PvP with the 50% dmg reduction, executes are really powerful. Excluding a class of one is a huge middle finger from ZOS to all DKs. But no, we shall only tank and dot. Tank and dot boys!

Do not even mention Molten Weapons... ~3.5 seconds that I have to fully charge my heavy attack my enemy will have

• healed himself
• stunned me
• escape.

Also, who said that class theme needs to be so strict, to the point that kills build diversity? In the contrary, ZOS has shown in the last patches that they want to improve the build diversity with changes to certain class abilities. Giving Sorcs / DKs extra healing given while casting X ability is an example. The stamina morphs is an other, which they improve every time. Stamina Templars and NBs have gotten much better with patch 1.6, stamina Sorcs in the latest one. Lets hope that 1.8 will be Stamina Dks time.

The theme of a class also doesn't (or at least shouldn't) dictate the range of our abilities. So many fights in PvE require you to be in range (most recently the Inhibitor from WGT) which makes a DK a ..disadvantage in a group. Same goes for PvP, different situation of course, more diverse battlefield after all.

All other classes have access to ranged abilities with sorc been the most heavily ranged one and Templar the not so good one (?), but still they surpass what DKs can do in range.

The theme for DK should be Fire and Stone, the end. Not just tank and dot.

That's why as Jules correctly said, DKs need an execute and mobility OR at least ranged abilities.

BalgusFlinn

Molten armaments is on fully charged heavy attacks. Pretty much NotGud for pvp(or pve for that matter), sorry, problem not solved.

Armitas

frozywozy wrote: »

This game is alot more complex than you think it is and there are still plenty of concepts that need to be clarified such as ultimates scaling off physical or spell damage, mace penetration not affecting spell dmg and such. There are alot of small details that make the game really complicated to figure out because only the most important stats will appear in your character panel unlike other mmos.

^ This. I have been playing since Sanguine beta and I learn something new about the game mechanics at least once a week. It is a deeply complex game.

Ishammael

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

Asmael wrote: »

Molten weapons

• Now applies a fire DoT that deals X damage over 10 seconds (12 at rank IV)
• Deals higher damage to target below 50% HP, up to 300% extra damage (330% at rank IV)
• Igneous weapons still adds 2 seconds to the duration after a fully charged heavy attack
• Molten armaments increases the damage of heavy attacks by 40%

-> Still the DK's fire theme
-> Still the DK's DoT theme
-> Just a billion times better

One problem solved. Next?

DK's don't need moar DoTs, they need big damage abilities and an actual execute.

DK's don't need more burst damage and executes. They have plenty of damage as it is. If that's what you want then I think you are in the wrong class tbh.

The theme for DKs is tankiness and high DPS through plenty of DoTs but not high burst. What the class needs is primarily for GDB to not suck and secondarily a magicka gap closer since all the skills are <7m range basically (stone fist still crap). These two changes alone will free DKs and allow them to experiment with more setups.

Everything else falls into "nice to have" rather than "need" category.

Agreed here.

That is not to say there aren't other problems.

Since a major skill redesign is a ways away, some small things could be added in the interim:
1. Major or minor heroism buff on a skill or two. Perhaps minor heroism on a magicka gap closer and major on magma armor?
2. Return inferno to its previous incarnation. Revert molten weapons to a self dmg buff, e.g. Empower and Fire dmg.
3. Drop standard cost to 200 (and nova for that matter).

Talcyndl

I've been playing my DK since release. He has consistently been built as a tank for PvP. That meant 7 heavy and S&B on both bars. He could stand in the middle of the action and survive because of

(1) Shielded Charge (Shield + stun)
(2) Good physical and spell resistance from 7 heavy + Draconic Power passives
(3) Self heals from GDB that worked well - especially with various healing buffs from set bonuses and passives.
(4) Blocking bonuses (cost and effectiveness).

All of those strengths have been changed for the worse. After trying to retain this basic set up in IC, it has become clear that it simply doesn't work. So I either shelve him and level up my NB or completely rework him to be 100% stamina in medium armor, relying on DPS and Vigor heals.

HeroOfNone

Playing A DK For A while, a few issues I've seen:

Magic verse stamina: magic builds are currently easier to do damage with on most DK builds. Even the stamina builds recommend keeping magicka regen high so you can use earthen heart abilities to get your stamina back. Champion points also favor magicka, since you get magicka crit for pumping up fire damage, verses weapon crit like you get with penetration or mighty for straight damage. It is possible to do high damage on both, both glass cannon magicka seems to have better sustain (armor, Coagulation blood, Igneous Shield, etc.) Through various abilities.

Burst damage: this is a sticking point for many in PVP. DKs can get good damage over a drawn out fight, great to see during duels and such but in open world they seem to have issues closing the deal. If we don't use wrecking blow or wait and hope the other guy will waste their attributes, they can likely survive, get friends, or escape. While you can stick dots on and hit enemies right before the end, they can be negated through purge, cloak, or a HOT. You do have some burst with take flight, but it's not as fast as an animation block cast of dawnbreaker. There are few fast direct abilities outside the magicka builds using flame whip.

Mobility: we have some with chains now, but it's more of an escape issues, which nightblades and Sorcerers have. DK and templars need to sit and fight, few escapes available outside of a vampire mistform.



There are a lot of other issues here, but I do need to get back to work sometime today. The biggest issue I see is DKS rave to be really tanky to be viable in PVP, be almost a hybrid in balancing the stamina and magicka regen, and have a crap ton of champion points to boost up the right abilities. Maybe they can really do well, but u think I'd see that happening more at the 600 CP mark.

Armitas

ZOS, if you are watching, I would allocate some time on the next ESO live to briefly comment on the future of DKs.

Master_Kas

Jules wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Fruitdog wrote: »

Now we're trying to hire lobbyists to deal with ZOS like it's some ridiculous bureaucratic entity. LOL, ZOS is literally as bad as Congress!

Master_Kas wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

JDar wrote: »

Cloak gets nerfed or DK's get buffed. Choose one.

It think even Hellen Keller could see that cloak does far too many things already.

Disappear
Drop combat
Purge dots
Come out of stealth with 10% increase to damage
Resume combat
Repeat

In order to do all of this as a dk, I would need to:
Crouch
Use environment to evade enemies and then sneak away and wait
Use purge
Use 1/2 an entropy on another target or pop 1/2 a spell power pot
Resume combat
Repeat

Um... yea.

Also, evidence above proves dk needs a buff. So if I have to choose one or the other id rather jump off a bridge considering it's imperative to the health of the game that both happen.

Hope you dont mean drop combat as in leaving combat? Not possible with cloak, and when the duration is over I either cloak again or stand there unable to crouch

Not disagreeing with anything, just question about that statement

Yes I do mean leave combat. To me, they mean the same.

Go to bed.

Already went to bed and woke up. Learn to adult bro.

Well they aren't the same. A stamina nightblade can only use cloak so many times before he can't hide anymore It's invisibility for 2.9 seconds which can be broken.

Again not commenting about your post or anything, just that it's not the same.

Real out of combat: regen is alot faster, you can crouch to sneak etc.
Cloak doesn't give you any of those.

Jules

Master_Kas wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Fruitdog wrote: »

Now we're trying to hire lobbyists to deal with ZOS like it's some ridiculous bureaucratic entity. LOL, ZOS is literally as bad as Congress!

Master_Kas wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

JDar wrote: »

Cloak gets nerfed or DK's get buffed. Choose one.

It think even Hellen Keller could see that cloak does far too many things already.

Disappear
Drop combat
Purge dots
Come out of stealth with 10% increase to damage
Resume combat
Repeat

In order to do all of this as a dk, I would need to:
Crouch
Use environment to evade enemies and then sneak away and wait
Use purge
Use 1/2 an entropy on another target or pop 1/2 a spell power pot
Resume combat
Repeat

Um... yea.

Also, evidence above proves dk needs a buff. So if I have to choose one or the other id rather jump off a bridge considering it's imperative to the health of the game that both happen.

Hope you dont mean drop combat as in leaving combat? Not possible with cloak, and when the duration is over I either cloak again or stand there unable to crouch

Not disagreeing with anything, just question about that statement

Yes I do mean leave combat. To me, they mean the same.

Go to bed.

Already went to bed and woke up. Learn to adult bro.

Well they aren't the same. A stamina nightblade can only use cloak so many times before he can't hide anymore It's invisibility for 2.9 seconds which can be broken.

Again not commenting about your post or anything, just that it's not the same.

Real out of combat: regen is alot faster, you can crouch to sneak etc.
Cloak doesn't give you any of those.

Fair enough. It gives you plenty more though.