Maintenance for the week of November 4:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – November 4
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – November 4
The Death of the Dragonknight- updated 3/15/16
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Ishammael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !
I agree. But I think another issue Jules has been heavily campaigning on is the overcast subject to all this, and it is that Magicka cannot keep up with Stamina. In terms of damage and of defensive options via CP.
When we establish a fine, constructive line between the two that have healthy countermeasures, I think then, we should analyse all classes.Moglijuana wrote: »Daily Bump. Glad I got to hear someone backing up the DK on the @Sypher PVP stream. Magicka DK is STILL and probably always will be my favorite class. #Jules4prez
Appreciate these and appreciate the bump @Etaniel and @Moglijuana
I really enjoy your vids Etaniel, I think you're a great player. I also appreciate the dk love you bring to the class. But just knowing your build and your stats makes me sad tbh, when I know much higher stats are achievable on other classes. And even higher if you weigh magicka vs stamina. And it's nothing you yourself are doing wrong by any means, just the class doesn't lend itself well to min maxing anymore. As @Ghostbane pointed out, magicka just flat out cannot keep up with stamina in this patch. And admittedly, hasn't been able to since 1.6. Anything I can achieve on a magicka dk, I can do better on a magicka sorc. Anything I can achieve on a stamina dk, I can do better on a stamina NB. Across the board- damage, regen, utility, survivability--- it's just so disheartening.
DK's really need to be looked at from the ground up. Someone REALLY needs to compare them to other classes in PVP and see how they stack up. I've attempted to do it here, but I mean someone from ZOS' side. Someone with the power to change things. For instance, why does a predominantly melee class have no stamina regen passive? Why does a melee class have no gap closer to get into melee range? It's just absolutely bonkers to me how these things aren't considered.
All too often, important matters such as these end up buried on the forums and never to be looked at again. It happened with AOE caps, it will happen with magicka dk. So many Magicka dks I know have just rerolled and accepted it at this point. Even I barely get on my DK and that's awful, but true. Eventually we will see a Cyrodiil that is nothing but 3 classes, all stamina. And Templar healers spamming BOL.
With no love for dk in upcoming orsinium- we're looking at early 2016 as the absolute earliest. I'll keep talking about it and yelling as loud as I can, to as many people as I can about this issue. But even I have to admit that when your cries fall on dead ears for months on end, what are you really supposed to do?
Regardless thanks for the kind words guys.
but your small class comparison is significantly biased
in any group that actually wants to fight and not cop out the moment they face resistance a stamina DK is tons more worthy a slot than a stamina NB. while i do agree that nbs excell at "ganking" situations. comparable is the situation for your magica comparison.
another point regarding mana dks are dots - wich make them insanly powerfull in PVE is their bane in PVP as dots are totally useless in PVP as temps and nbs have instant cleanses on either highly used or extreamly cheap abilities and sorcs, even though dk-dots tick on shields their value compared with the shield size renders them totally bonkers(wich doesent matter much as a mana sorc will not kill a mana dk either:P). my personal solution for this point would be a general change in dot behaviour regardless of its source in PVP - to be only cleansable by the alliance cleanse and restrict that cleanse to affect only the user and the 3 direct groupmembers he is grouped with (no more battlegroup wide cleanses beside the templer synergy...)
In regards to stamina dk vs stamina NB, I have to say I completely disagree. Stamina NB is worlds stronger in any size group, due to things like FEAR, and also due to the sheer damage they output. In stealth they receive weapon damage bonuses, and in clouding swarm they are considered to be in stealth. This makes their steel tornado much stronger than a stamina DK's.
not disagreeing here - the dmg innitiated by a NB is hihger than that of a DK but in smaller groups straight dmg is not everything. just watch the recent vids from yuke, fluffy and etaniel if they would have played NB´s instead of DKs those vids would have been impossible simply becasue of the way NBs are to be played. at some point the 3rd char - the groups healer - will be the only visibale target and thus melt like ice in the sun focused by everyone arround simply because of beeing the only target available (seen way to often on my healing sorc/temp
when running with my guild nightblades), wich is in return the end of the NBs as they have no way to handle multiple range attackers if not massivly healed by someone else - so they play with coping out in mind from the beginning and thats where i started off do you want to cop out NBs are great and awesome do you want to bring the fight to an end outside of ganking situations where you are simply overwhelming your opponent in a short amount of time nbs are losing ground to dks.
mana dks are currently in a misirable state solo as their class heal is gutted, their singel target dmg vs enemys paying attention is not great but once you add a healer they start to excell as their aedmg is great their cc and area denial are unmatched wich are necessary if not essential in micro groups
Sorry, but how exactly is a stamina DK inherently any tankier than a stamina NB? Nightblades can wear heavy armor and 1h/shield too.
beside whats allready mentioned - don´t forget your flaps negating 20-80k dmg (including procs etc.) in a "crowdy" situation is a f.cking lot of tankiness increasement...
Flap flaps are not reliable and bug out all the time. About 25% of all projectiles I take actually go through my wings.
And even when they are reflected, it's extremely buggy : the sound effect tells me I got hit, the visual effect from meteor is applied on the ground beneath my feet, the projectiles flies aways but my health takes a hit etc
and?
its still 4 projectiles doing atleast 5k each up to 10-15k+upto 10k procs attachted to them beeing reflected that all other classes have to handle and Dks dont.
its like Nbs saying because stealth is not 100% reliable all the time that skill is garbage...
Yeah all our reflected projectiles deal tons of damage, which is why noone actually bothers to stop casting projectiles when you have your wings up. Makes sense.
And yeah you're right, it's such a big advantage to have a broken skill. I mean nightblades couldn't possibly cloak to evade the projectiles, and templar surely can't purge the projectile before it hits...
And no, it's not an issue of double reflecting. It's an issue of look : i have a meteor coming for me, circle at my feet, I cast wings (I'm not eclipsed because I have immunity) and booooom I take it to the face, sometimes with animation, sometimes without
scales allways reflect 4 projectiles in 4 seconds it might not be the first 4 arriving you but it is getting rid of 4 projectiles aimed at you with only one "GCD" .
clearly they always reflect yes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SAT0rLNhwk
I could upload ten more but this one is enough don't you think?
No use arguing with this guy, Etaniel.2 -
Etaniel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Derra already complains that us DKs have no mobility whatsoever to come help him out if he's in trouble, he's the one that has to get to us. Wouldn't have that problem if we were nightlades.Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !
I agree. But I think another issue Jules has been heavily campaigning on is the overcast subject to all this, and it is that Magicka cannot keep up with Stamina. In terms of damage and of defensive options via CP.
When we establish a fine, constructive line between the two that have healthy countermeasures, I think then, we should analyse all classes.Moglijuana wrote: »Daily Bump. Glad I got to hear someone backing up the DK on the @Sypher PVP stream. Magicka DK is STILL and probably always will be my favorite class. #Jules4prez
Appreciate these and appreciate the bump @Etaniel and @Moglijuana
I really enjoy your vids Etaniel, I think you're a great player. I also appreciate the dk love you bring to the class. But just knowing your build and your stats makes me sad tbh, when I know much higher stats are achievable on other classes. And even higher if you weigh magicka vs stamina. And it's nothing you yourself are doing wrong by any means, just the class doesn't lend itself well to min maxing anymore. As @Ghostbane pointed out, magicka just flat out cannot keep up with stamina in this patch. And admittedly, hasn't been able to since 1.6. Anything I can achieve on a magicka dk, I can do better on a magicka sorc. Anything I can achieve on a stamina dk, I can do better on a stamina NB. Across the board- damage, regen, utility, survivability--- it's just so disheartening.
DK's really need to be looked at from the ground up. Someone REALLY needs to compare them to other classes in PVP and see how they stack up. I've attempted to do it here, but I mean someone from ZOS' side. Someone with the power to change things. For instance, why does a predominantly melee class have no stamina regen passive? Why does a melee class have no gap closer to get into melee range? It's just absolutely bonkers to me how these things aren't considered.
All too often, important matters such as these end up buried on the forums and never to be looked at again. It happened with AOE caps, it will happen with magicka dk. So many Magicka dks I know have just rerolled and accepted it at this point. Even I barely get on my DK and that's awful, but true. Eventually we will see a Cyrodiil that is nothing but 3 classes, all stamina. And Templar healers spamming BOL.
With no love for dk in upcoming orsinium- we're looking at early 2016 as the absolute earliest. I'll keep talking about it and yelling as loud as I can, to as many people as I can about this issue. But even I have to admit that when your cries fall on dead ears for months on end, what are you really supposed to do?
Regardless thanks for the kind words guys.
but your small class comparison is significantly biased in any group that actually wants to fight and not cop out the moment they face resistance a stamina DK is tons more worthy a slot than a stamina NB. while i do agree that nbs excell at "ganking" situations. comparable is the situation for your magica comparison.
another point regarding mana dks are dots - wich make them insanly powerfull in PVE is their bane in PVP as dots are totally useless in PVP as temps and nbs have instant cleanses on either highly used or extreamly cheap abilities and sorcs, even though dk-dots tick on shields their value compared with the shield size renders them totally bonkers(wich doesent matter much as a mana sorc will not kill a mana dk either:P). my personal solution for this point would be a general change in dot behaviour regardless of its source in PVP - to be only cleansable by the alliance cleanse and restrict that cleanse to affect only the user and the 3 direct groupmembers he is grouped with (no more battlegroup wide cleanses beside the templer synergy...)
In regards to stamina dk vs stamina NB, I have to say I completely disagree. Stamina NB is worlds stronger in any size group, due to things like FEAR, and also due to the sheer damage they output. In stealth they receive weapon damage bonuses, and in clouding swarm they are considered to be in stealth. This makes their steel tornado much stronger than a stamina DK's.
not disagreeing here - the dmg innitiated by a NB is hihger than that of a DK but in smaller groups straight dmg is not everything. just watch the recent vids from yuke, fluffy and etaniel if they would have played NB´s instead of DKs those vids would have been impossible simply becasue of the way NBs are to be played. at some point the 3rd char - the groups healer - will be the only visibale target and thus melt like ice in the sun focused by everyone arround simply because of beeing the only target available (seen way to often on my healing sorc/temp when running with my guild nightblades), wich is in return the end of the NBs as they have no way to handle multiple range attackers if not massivly healed by someone else - so they play with coping out in mind from the beginning and thats where i started off do you want to cop out NBs are great and awesome do you want to bring the fight to an end outside of ganking situations where you are simply overwhelming your opponent in a short amount of time nbs are losing ground to dks.
mana dks are currently in a misirable state solo as their class heal is gutted, their singel target dmg vs enemys paying attention is not great but once you add a healer they start to excell as their aedmg is great their cc and area denial are unmatched wich are necessary if not essential in micro groups
Sorry, but how exactly is a stamina DK inherently any tankier than a stamina NB? Nightblades can wear heavy armor and 1h/shield too.
beside whats allready mentioned - don´t forget your flaps negating 20-80k dmg (including procs etc.) in a "crowdy" situation is a f.cking lot of tankiness increasement...
Flap flaps are not reliable and bug out all the time. About 25% of all projectiles I take actually go through my wings.
And even when they are reflected, it's extremely buggy : the sound effect tells me I got hit, the visual effect from meteor is applied on the ground beneath my feet, the projectiles flies aways but my health takes a hit etc
and?
its still 4 projectiles doing atleast 5k each up to 10-15k+upto 10k procs attachted to them beeing reflected that all other classes have to handle and Dks dont.
its like Nbs saying because stealth is not 100% reliable all the time that skill is garbage...
Yeah all our reflected projectiles deal tons of damage, which is why noone actually bothers to stop casting projectiles when you have your wings up. Makes sense.
And yeah you're right, it's such a big advantage to have a broken skill. I mean nightblades couldn't possibly cloak to evade the projectiles, and templar surely can't purge the projectile before it hits...
And no, it's not an issue of double reflecting. It's an issue of look : i have a meteor coming for me, circle at my feet, I cast wings (I'm not eclipsed because I have immunity) and booooom I take it to the face, sometimes with animation, sometimes without
and beside that i would like to hear derra if you guys constantly vanish to avoid projectiles leaving him as the only visible target all the time
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Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Like I said this morning on King's stream while he was experimenting a stamblade on the PTS during the maintenance, the key to stamblade is to slot ambush, surprise attack, fear and cloak, then you buy a cat and you make him walk over your keyboard to see the APs flows. All those comparisons with numbers don't matter. Nightblades have the best AOE disable in the game, the best gap closer in the game and the best survivability skill in the game. nuff said
Agreed on all accounts besides best survivability. When I think survivability, I think of the ability to tank damage and be mobile enough to get away from damage. I think that title absolutely goes to sorc due to their hardened ward and streak.0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !
I agree. But I think another issue Jules has been heavily campaigning on is the overcast subject to all this, and it is that Magicka cannot keep up with Stamina. In terms of damage and of defensive options via CP.
When we establish a fine, constructive line between the two that have healthy countermeasures, I think then, we should analyse all classes.Moglijuana wrote: »Daily Bump. Glad I got to hear someone backing up the DK on the @Sypher PVP stream. Magicka DK is STILL and probably always will be my favorite class. #Jules4prez
Appreciate these and appreciate the bump @Etaniel and @Moglijuana
I really enjoy your vids Etaniel, I think you're a great player. I also appreciate the dk love you bring to the class. But just knowing your build and your stats makes me sad tbh, when I know much higher stats are achievable on other classes. And even higher if you weigh magicka vs stamina. And it's nothing you yourself are doing wrong by any means, just the class doesn't lend itself well to min maxing anymore. As @Ghostbane pointed out, magicka just flat out cannot keep up with stamina in this patch. And admittedly, hasn't been able to since 1.6. Anything I can achieve on a magicka dk, I can do better on a magicka sorc. Anything I can achieve on a stamina dk, I can do better on a stamina NB. Across the board- damage, regen, utility, survivability--- it's just so disheartening.
DK's really need to be looked at from the ground up. Someone REALLY needs to compare them to other classes in PVP and see how they stack up. I've attempted to do it here, but I mean someone from ZOS' side. Someone with the power to change things. For instance, why does a predominantly melee class have no stamina regen passive? Why does a melee class have no gap closer to get into melee range? It's just absolutely bonkers to me how these things aren't considered.
All too often, important matters such as these end up buried on the forums and never to be looked at again. It happened with AOE caps, it will happen with magicka dk. So many Magicka dks I know have just rerolled and accepted it at this point. Even I barely get on my DK and that's awful, but true. Eventually we will see a Cyrodiil that is nothing but 3 classes, all stamina. And Templar healers spamming BOL.
With no love for dk in upcoming orsinium- we're looking at early 2016 as the absolute earliest. I'll keep talking about it and yelling as loud as I can, to as many people as I can about this issue. But even I have to admit that when your cries fall on dead ears for months on end, what are you really supposed to do?
Regardless thanks for the kind words guys.
but your small class comparison is significantly biased in any group that actually wants to fight and not cop out the moment they face resistance a stamina DK is tons more worthy a slot than a stamina NB. while i do agree that nbs excell at "ganking" situations. comparable is the situation for your magica comparison.
another point regarding mana dks are dots - wich make them insanly powerfull in PVE is their bane in PVP as dots are totally useless in PVP as temps and nbs have instant cleanses on either highly used or extreamly cheap abilities and sorcs, even though dk-dots tick on shields their value compared with the shield size renders them totally bonkers(wich doesent matter much as a mana sorc will not kill a mana dk either:P). my personal solution for this point would be a general change in dot behaviour regardless of its source in PVP - to be only cleansable by the alliance cleanse and restrict that cleanse to affect only the user and the 3 direct groupmembers he is grouped with (no more battlegroup wide cleanses beside the templer synergy...)
In regards to stamina dk vs stamina NB, I have to say I completely disagree. Stamina NB is worlds stronger in any size group, due to things like FEAR, and also due to the sheer damage they output. In stealth they receive weapon damage bonuses, and in clouding swarm they are considered to be in stealth. This makes their steel tornado much stronger than a stamina DK's.
not disagreeing here - the dmg innitiated by a NB is hihger than that of a DK but in smaller groups straight dmg is not everything. just watch the recent vids from yuke, fluffy and etaniel if they would have played NB´s instead of DKs those vids would have been impossible simply becasue of the way NBs are to be played. at some point the 3rd char - the groups healer - will be the only visibale target and thus melt like ice in the sun focused by everyone arround simply because of beeing the only target available (seen way to often on my healing sorc/temp when running with my guild nightblades), wich is in return the end of the NBs as they have no way to handle multiple range attackers if not massivly healed by someone else - so they play with coping out in mind from the beginning and thats where i started off do you want to cop out NBs are great and awesome do you want to bring the fight to an end outside of ganking situations where you are simply overwhelming your opponent in a short amount of time nbs are losing ground to dks.
mana dks are currently in a misirable state solo as their class heal is gutted, their singel target dmg vs enemys paying attention is not great but once you add a healer they start to excell as their aedmg is great their cc and area denial are unmatched wich are necessary if not essential in micro groups
Sorry, but how exactly is a stamina DK inherently any tankier than a stamina NB? Nightblades can wear heavy armor and 1h/shield too.
beside whats allready mentioned - don´t forget your flaps negating 20-80k dmg (including procs etc.) in a "crowdy" situation is a f.cking lot of tankiness increasement...
Flap flaps are not reliable and bug out all the time. About 25% of all projectiles I take actually go through my wings.
And even when they are reflected, it's extremely buggy : the sound effect tells me I got hit, the visual effect from meteor is applied on the ground beneath my feet, the projectiles flies aways but my health takes a hit etc
and?
its still 4 projectiles doing atleast 5k each up to 10-15k+upto 10k procs attachted to them beeing reflected that all other classes have to handle and Dks dont.
its like Nbs saying because stealth is not 100% reliable all the time that skill is garbage...
the strange meteor behaviour is actually the double reflect of a meteor from my observations fighting them the last few days on my shield temp.
We based our tactics and our game play on the assumptions that skills will work and skills will do what I expect them to.
If I use flappy-flap, I am going to be extremely aggressive against projectile users and invite being targeted by them. If I know I am absent the reflect, I would not make such decisions.
This is also what make chains so unreliable; it's impossible to devise tactics or strategies not know what will happen when I press a button.
And before we get on board the "DK can avoid 80K damage worth of projectiles just by flapping" train, can't any class do the same thing with a single dodge roll? Can't sorcerers mittigate that by spamming shields? Can't NBs avoid that by cloaking? Can;t templars just make those projectiles disappear by casting purify? Yes, yes, yes, and yes.
When you look at your fiends list and see those people who love DKs leveling alts or just haven't seen a whip in Cyrodiil for 30 minutes, it's not because we joined a conspiracy to pressure ZoS to buff our class or that we are just salty for losing our OP status or we are just too damn stupid to figure out how to play one competitively. Maybe, just maybe, it is just easier and more fun to play something else.
3 -
SneaK✭✭✭✭✭Like I said this morning on King's stream while he was experimenting a stamblade on the PTS during the maintenance, the key to stamblade is to slot ambush, surprise attack, fear and cloak, then you buy a cat and you make him walk over your keyboard to see the APs flows. All those comparisons with numbers don't matter. Nightblades have the best AOE disable in the game, the best gap closer in the game and the best survivability skill in the game. nuff said
Agreed on all accounts besides best survivability. When I think survivability, I think of the ability to tank damage and be mobile enough to get away from damage. I think that title absolutely goes to sorc due to their hardened ward and streak.
AOE disable... I think Talons would be up there with Hysteria. A little different, but still really good.
Not sure why NB's are even brought up in this thread. How does a NB come into this? They are the last thing I worry about when I play on my DK.
DK's need help. Stay on topic folks.
"IMO"Aldmeri DominionBosmer Nightblade AR 32 - Altmer Templar AR 26 - Dunmer Dragonknight AR 18 - Altmer Sorcerer AR 20 - Khajiit Dragonknight AR 18(+3 not worth mentioning, yet)0 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !
I agree. But I think another issue Jules has been heavily campaigning on is the overcast subject to all this, and it is that Magicka cannot keep up with Stamina. In terms of damage and of defensive options via CP.
When we establish a fine, constructive line between the two that have healthy countermeasures, I think then, we should analyse all classes.Moglijuana wrote: »Daily Bump. Glad I got to hear someone backing up the DK on the @Sypher PVP stream. Magicka DK is STILL and probably always will be my favorite class. #Jules4prez
Appreciate these and appreciate the bump @Etaniel and @Moglijuana
I really enjoy your vids Etaniel, I think you're a great player. I also appreciate the dk love you bring to the class. But just knowing your build and your stats makes me sad tbh, when I know much higher stats are achievable on other classes. And even higher if you weigh magicka vs stamina. And it's nothing you yourself are doing wrong by any means, just the class doesn't lend itself well to min maxing anymore. As @Ghostbane pointed out, magicka just flat out cannot keep up with stamina in this patch. And admittedly, hasn't been able to since 1.6. Anything I can achieve on a magicka dk, I can do better on a magicka sorc. Anything I can achieve on a stamina dk, I can do better on a stamina NB. Across the board- damage, regen, utility, survivability--- it's just so disheartening.
DK's really need to be looked at from the ground up. Someone REALLY needs to compare them to other classes in PVP and see how they stack up. I've attempted to do it here, but I mean someone from ZOS' side. Someone with the power to change things. For instance, why does a predominantly melee class have no stamina regen passive? Why does a melee class have no gap closer to get into melee range? It's just absolutely bonkers to me how these things aren't considered.
All too often, important matters such as these end up buried on the forums and never to be looked at again. It happened with AOE caps, it will happen with magicka dk. So many Magicka dks I know have just rerolled and accepted it at this point. Even I barely get on my DK and that's awful, but true. Eventually we will see a Cyrodiil that is nothing but 3 classes, all stamina. And Templar healers spamming BOL.
With no love for dk in upcoming orsinium- we're looking at early 2016 as the absolute earliest. I'll keep talking about it and yelling as loud as I can, to as many people as I can about this issue. But even I have to admit that when your cries fall on dead ears for months on end, what are you really supposed to do?
Regardless thanks for the kind words guys.
but your small class comparison is significantly biased in any group that actually wants to fight and not cop out the moment they face resistance a stamina DK is tons more worthy a slot than a stamina NB. while i do agree that nbs excell at "ganking" situations. comparable is the situation for your magica comparison.
another point regarding mana dks are dots - wich make them insanly powerfull in PVE is their bane in PVP as dots are totally useless in PVP as temps and nbs have instant cleanses on either highly used or extreamly cheap abilities and sorcs, even though dk-dots tick on shields their value compared with the shield size renders them totally bonkers(wich doesent matter much as a mana sorc will not kill a mana dk either:P). my personal solution for this point would be a general change in dot behaviour regardless of its source in PVP - to be only cleansable by the alliance cleanse and restrict that cleanse to affect only the user and the 3 direct groupmembers he is grouped with (no more battlegroup wide cleanses beside the templer synergy...)
In regards to stamina dk vs stamina NB, I have to say I completely disagree. Stamina NB is worlds stronger in any size group, due to things like FEAR, and also due to the sheer damage they output. In stealth they receive weapon damage bonuses, and in clouding swarm they are considered to be in stealth. This makes their steel tornado much stronger than a stamina DK's.
not disagreeing here - the dmg innitiated by a NB is hihger than that of a DK but in smaller groups straight dmg is not everything. just watch the recent vids from yuke, fluffy and etaniel if they would have played NB´s instead of DKs those vids would have been impossible simply becasue of the way NBs are to be played. at some point the 3rd char - the groups healer - will be the only visibale target and thus melt like ice in the sun focused by everyone arround simply because of beeing the only target available (seen way to often on my healing sorc/temp when running with my guild nightblades), wich is in return the end of the NBs as they have no way to handle multiple range attackers if not massivly healed by someone else - so they play with coping out in mind from the beginning and thats where i started off do you want to cop out NBs are great and awesome do you want to bring the fight to an end outside of ganking situations where you are simply overwhelming your opponent in a short amount of time nbs are losing ground to dks.
mana dks are currently in a misirable state solo as their class heal is gutted, their singel target dmg vs enemys paying attention is not great but once you add a healer they start to excell as their aedmg is great their cc and area denial are unmatched wich are necessary if not essential in micro groups
Sorry, but how exactly is a stamina DK inherently any tankier than a stamina NB? Nightblades can wear heavy armor and 1h/shield too.
beside whats allready mentioned - don´t forget your flaps negating 20-80k dmg (including procs etc.) in a "crowdy" situation is a f.cking lot of tankiness increasement...
Flap flaps are not reliable and bug out all the time. About 25% of all projectiles I take actually go through my wings.
And even when they are reflected, it's extremely buggy : the sound effect tells me I got hit, the visual effect from meteor is applied on the ground beneath my feet, the projectiles flies aways but my health takes a hit etc
and?
its still 4 projectiles doing atleast 5k each up to 10-15k+upto 10k procs attachted to them beeing reflected that all other classes have to handle and Dks dont.
its like Nbs saying because stealth is not 100% reliable all the time that skill is garbage...
Yeah all our reflected projectiles deal tons of damage, which is why noone actually bothers to stop casting projectiles when you have your wings up. Makes sense.
And yeah you're right, it's such a big advantage to have a broken skill. I mean nightblades couldn't possibly cloak to evade the projectiles, and templar surely can't purge the projectile before it hits...
And no, it's not an issue of double reflecting. It's an issue of look : i have a meteor coming for me, circle at my feet, I cast wings (I'm not eclipsed because I have immunity) and booooom I take it to the face, sometimes with animation, sometimes without
scales allways reflect 4 projectiles in 4 seconds it might not be the first 4 arriving you but it is getting rid of 4 projectiles aimed at you with only one "GCD" .
clearly they always reflect yeshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SAT0rLNhwk
I could upload ten more but this one is enough don't you think?
No use arguing with this guy, Etaniel.
you are right - its not worth arguing with me, but i´m open to any actual discussion.
i´m 100% on your side that the bugs regarding skills have to be fixed asap, regardless of witch it is. but having a (hopefully) temporarily bugged ability is not denying the power of this ability per se. and wings is THE most powerfull tankiness increasing ability in this game (and even moreso than now in its bugged state).spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"1 -
frozywozy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !
I agree. But I think another issue Jules has been heavily campaigning on is the overcast subject to all this, and it is that Magicka cannot keep up with Stamina. In terms of damage and of defensive options via CP.
When we establish a fine, constructive line between the two that have healthy countermeasures, I think then, we should analyse all classes.Moglijuana wrote: »Daily Bump. Glad I got to hear someone backing up the DK on the @Sypher PVP stream. Magicka DK is STILL and probably always will be my favorite class. #Jules4prez
Appreciate these and appreciate the bump @Etaniel and @Moglijuana
I really enjoy your vids Etaniel, I think you're a great player. I also appreciate the dk love you bring to the class. But just knowing your build and your stats makes me sad tbh, when I know much higher stats are achievable on other classes. And even higher if you weigh magicka vs stamina. And it's nothing you yourself are doing wrong by any means, just the class doesn't lend itself well to min maxing anymore. As @Ghostbane pointed out, magicka just flat out cannot keep up with stamina in this patch. And admittedly, hasn't been able to since 1.6. Anything I can achieve on a magicka dk, I can do better on a magicka sorc. Anything I can achieve on a stamina dk, I can do better on a stamina NB. Across the board- damage, regen, utility, survivability--- it's just so disheartening.
DK's really need to be looked at from the ground up. Someone REALLY needs to compare them to other classes in PVP and see how they stack up. I've attempted to do it here, but I mean someone from ZOS' side. Someone with the power to change things. For instance, why does a predominantly melee class have no stamina regen passive? Why does a melee class have no gap closer to get into melee range? It's just absolutely bonkers to me how these things aren't considered.
All too often, important matters such as these end up buried on the forums and never to be looked at again. It happened with AOE caps, it will happen with magicka dk. So many Magicka dks I know have just rerolled and accepted it at this point. Even I barely get on my DK and that's awful, but true. Eventually we will see a Cyrodiil that is nothing but 3 classes, all stamina. And Templar healers spamming BOL.
With no love for dk in upcoming orsinium- we're looking at early 2016 as the absolute earliest. I'll keep talking about it and yelling as loud as I can, to as many people as I can about this issue. But even I have to admit that when your cries fall on dead ears for months on end, what are you really supposed to do?
Regardless thanks for the kind words guys.
but your small class comparison is significantly biased in any group that actually wants to fight and not cop out the moment they face resistance a stamina DK is tons more worthy a slot than a stamina NB. while i do agree that nbs excell at "ganking" situations. comparable is the situation for your magica comparison.
another point regarding mana dks are dots - wich make them insanly powerfull in PVE is their bane in PVP as dots are totally useless in PVP as temps and nbs have instant cleanses on either highly used or extreamly cheap abilities and sorcs, even though dk-dots tick on shields their value compared with the shield size renders them totally bonkers(wich doesent matter much as a mana sorc will not kill a mana dk either:P). my personal solution for this point would be a general change in dot behaviour regardless of its source in PVP - to be only cleansable by the alliance cleanse and restrict that cleanse to affect only the user and the 3 direct groupmembers he is grouped with (no more battlegroup wide cleanses beside the templer synergy...)
In regards to stamina dk vs stamina NB, I have to say I completely disagree. Stamina NB is worlds stronger in any size group, due to things like FEAR, and also due to the sheer damage they output. In stealth they receive weapon damage bonuses, and in clouding swarm they are considered to be in stealth. This makes their steel tornado much stronger than a stamina DK's.
not disagreeing here - the dmg innitiated by a NB is hihger than that of a DK but in smaller groups straight dmg is not everything. just watch the recent vids from yuke, fluffy and etaniel if they would have played NB´s instead of DKs those vids would have been impossible simply becasue of the way NBs are to be played. at some point the 3rd char - the groups healer - will be the only visibale target and thus melt like ice in the sun focused by everyone arround simply because of beeing the only target available (seen way to often on my healing sorc/temp when running with my guild nightblades), wich is in return the end of the NBs as they have no way to handle multiple range attackers if not massivly healed by someone else - so they play with coping out in mind from the beginning and thats where i started off do you want to cop out NBs are great and awesome do you want to bring the fight to an end outside of ganking situations where you are simply overwhelming your opponent in a short amount of time nbs are losing ground to dks.
mana dks are currently in a misirable state solo as their class heal is gutted, their singel target dmg vs enemys paying attention is not great but once you add a healer they start to excell as their aedmg is great their cc and area denial are unmatched wich are necessary if not essential in micro groups
Sorry, but how exactly is a stamina DK inherently any tankier than a stamina NB? Nightblades can wear heavy armor and 1h/shield too.
beside whats allready mentioned - don´t forget your flaps negating 20-80k dmg (including procs etc.) in a "crowdy" situation is a f.cking lot of tankiness increasement...
Flap flaps are not reliable and bug out all the time. About 25% of all projectiles I take actually go through my wings.
And even when they are reflected, it's extremely buggy : the sound effect tells me I got hit, the visual effect from meteor is applied on the ground beneath my feet, the projectiles flies aways but my health takes a hit etc
and?
its still 4 projectiles doing atleast 5k each up to 10-15k+upto 10k procs attachted to them beeing reflected that all other classes have to handle and Dks dont.
its like Nbs saying because stealth is not 100% reliable all the time that skill is garbage...
Yeah all our reflected projectiles deal tons of damage, which is why noone actually bothers to stop casting projectiles when you have your wings up. Makes sense.
And yeah you're right, it's such a big advantage to have a broken skill. I mean nightblades couldn't possibly cloak to evade the projectiles, and templar surely can't purge the projectile before it hits...
And no, it's not an issue of double reflecting. It's an issue of look : i have a meteor coming for me, circle at my feet, I cast wings (I'm not eclipsed because I have immunity) and booooom I take it to the face, sometimes with animation, sometimes without
sorry but projectiles do around 5-20k including additional procs like camouflaged hunter, weapon procs etc wich are not applied to you if the projectile is reflected. scales allways reflect 4 projectiles in 4 seconds it might not be the first 4 arriving you but it is getting rid of 4 projectiles aimed at you with only one "GCD" and up to 16 spamming it compared to permanently spamming cleanse on the templar side for 4 projectiles... and beside that i would like to hear derra if you guys constantly vanish to avoid projectiles leaving him as the only visible target all the time
regarding eclipse i´m only using it to troll talon spamming dks :P as it is completly unreliable thx to cc immunities. and as i have defensive stance i´m able to reflect meteors back to the reflecting dk wich leads 100% of the time to the graphical issues you were discribing beforhand. where the animation can´t handle what is actually happening.
Are you actually insinuating that wings aren't bugged ? I'm shocked.Like I said this morning on King's stream while he was experimenting a stamblade on the PTS during the maintenance, the key to stamblade is to slot ambush, surprise attack, fear and cloak, then you buy a cat and you make him walk over your keyboard to see the APs flows. All those comparisons with numbers don't matter. Nightblades have the best AOE disable in the game, the best gap closer in the game and the best survivability skill in the game. nuff said
Agreed on all accounts besides best survivability. When I think survivability, I think of the ability to tank damage and be mobile enough to get away from damage. I think that title absolutely goes to sorc due to their hardened ward and streak.
Due to the nerf to detect potions, the poor reliability of Flares and the poor range of Radiant Aura, in my opinion, cloak is the best way to escape a bad situation but I understand what you're saying.Like I said this morning on King's stream while he was experimenting a stamblade on the PTS during the maintenance, the key to stamblade is to slot ambush, surprise attack, fear and cloak, then you buy a cat and you make him walk over your keyboard to see the APs flows. All those comparisons with numbers don't matter. Nightblades have the best AOE disable in the game, the best gap closer in the game and the best survivability skill in the game. nuff said
Agreed on all accounts besides best survivability. When I think survivability, I think of the ability to tank damage and be mobile enough to get away from damage. I think that title absolutely goes to sorc due to their hardened ward and streak.Like I said this morning on King's stream while he was experimenting a stamblade on the PTS during the maintenance, the key to stamblade is to slot ambush, surprise attack, fear and cloak, then you buy a cat and you make him walk over your keyboard to see the APs flows. All those comparisons with numbers don't matter. Nightblades have the best AOE disable in the game, the best gap closer in the game and the best survivability skill in the game. nuff said
Agreed on all accounts besides best survivability. When I think survivability, I think of the ability to tank damage and be mobile enough to get away from damage. I think that title absolutely goes to sorc due to their hardened ward and streak.
AOE disable... I think Talons would be up there with Hysteria. A little different, but still really good.
Not sure why NB's are even brought up in this thread. How does a NB come into this? They are the last thing I worry about when I play on my DK.
DK's need help. Stay on topic folks.
Talons is not a disable, it's a root. Disables are any kind of CC that make you lose control of your character and make you unable to use any ability such as stuns, fears, silences and disorient effects.
Edited by frozywozy on November 2, 2015 5:24PMFrozn - Stamdk - AR50
Frosted - Magplar - AR50
Frodn - Magden - AR50
Warmed - Magblade - AR50
Mmfrozy - Magsorc - AR44
Necrozn - Magcro - AR32
Twitch.TV/FrozyTV
PvP Group Builds
“Small minds discuss people, average minds discuss events, and great minds discuss ideas.” -Eleanor Roosevelt- Fix Volendrung (spawn location - weapon white on the map causing the wielder to keep it forever - usable with emperorship)
- Remove / Change CPs System, remove current CP/noCP campaigns and introduce one 30days with lock, one with no locks
- Fix crashes when approaching a keep under attack because of bad / wrong rendering prioritization system
- Change emperorship to value faction score points and not alliance points - see this and this
- Fix long loading screens (mostly caused by players joining group out of rendering range)
- Add 2 more quickslots to the wheel or add a different wheel for sieges weaponry only
- Fix Balista Bolts not dealing damage on walls or doors if deployed at a certain place
- Release bigger battlegrounds with 8 to 16 players per team and only two teams
- Fix the permanent block animation - see examples : link1 link2 link3 link4 link5
- Gives players 10 minutes to get back into Cyrodiil after relogging / crashing
- Add a function to ignore the Claiming system of useless rewards
- Improve the Mailing System / Rewards of the Worthy stacking
- Assign specific group sizes to specific campaigns (24-16-8)
- Make forward camps impossible to place near objectives
- Make snares only available from ground effects abilities
- Change emperorship to last minimum 24hours
- Fix body sliding after cc breaking too quickly
- Remove Block Casting through Battle Spirit
- Fix the speed drop while jumping - see video
- Fix loading screens when keeps upgrade
- Fix Rams going crazy (spinning around)
- Bring back dynamic ulti regeneration
- Fix speed bug (abilities locked)
- Introduce dynamic population
- Lower population cap by 20%
- Add Snare Immunity potions
- Bring resurrection sickness
- Fix character desync
- Fix cc breaking bug
- Fix gap closer bug
- Fix health desync
- Fix combat bug
- Fix streak bug
- Fix server lag
0 -
SneaK✭✭✭✭✭Like I said this morning on King's stream while he was experimenting a stamblade on the PTS during the maintenance, the key to stamblade is to slot ambush, surprise attack, fear and cloak, then you buy a cat and you make him walk over your keyboard to see the APs flows. All those comparisons with numbers don't matter. Nightblades have the best AOE disable in the game, the best gap closer in the game and the best survivability skill in the game. nuff said
Agreed on all accounts besides best survivability. When I think survivability, I think of the ability to tank damage and be mobile enough to get away from damage. I think that title absolutely goes to sorc due to their hardened ward and streak.
AOE disable... I think Talons would be up there with Hysteria. A little different, but still really good.
Not sure why NB's are even brought up in this thread. How does a NB come into this? They are the last thing I worry about when I play on my DK.
DK's need help. Stay on topic folks.Talons is not a disable, it's a root. Disables are any kind of CC that make you lose control of your character and make you unable to use any ability such as stuns, fears, silences and disorient effects.
I know the difference. To me, they are in the same league. I wouldn't say one is better than the other.Edited by SneaK on November 2, 2015 5:29PM"IMO"Aldmeri DominionBosmer Nightblade AR 32 - Altmer Templar AR 26 - Dunmer Dragonknight AR 18 - Altmer Sorcerer AR 20 - Khajiit Dragonknight AR 18(+3 not worth mentioning, yet)0 -
PhatGrimReaper✭✭✭✭✭aLike I said this morning on King's stream while he was experimenting a stamblade on the PTS during the maintenance, the key to stamblade is to slot ambush, surprise attack, fear and cloak, then you buy a cat and you make him walk over your keyboard to see the APs flows. All those comparisons with numbers don't matter. Nightblades have the best AOE disable in the game, the best gap closer in the game and the best survivability skill in the game. nuff said
Agreed on all accounts besides best survivability. When I think survivability, I think of the ability to tank damage and be mobile enough to get away from damage. I think that title absolutely goes to sorc due to their hardened ward and streak.
AOE disable... I think Talons would be up there with Hysteria. A little different, but still really good.
Not sure why NB's are even brought up in this thread. How does a NB come into this? They are the last thing I worry about when I play on my DK.
DK's need help. Stay on topic folks.Talons is not a disable, it's a root. Disables are any kind of CC that make you lose control of your character and make you unable to use any ability such as stuns, fears, silences and disorient effects.
I know the difference. To me, they are in the same league. I wouldn't say one is better than the other.
They aren't even close to being in the same league mate.... DK uses talons, you purge it/you dodge roll.... NB fears, you mash the break free button before you get your face rekt... kinda of a big difference. While in talons you still have all of your abilities available to you... while feared you are ****ed.Fat Grim Reaper - (m)Dragon Knight AR28
F G R Junior - Templar AR26
This One Had Name Changed - Nightblade AR19
Fat Grim Streaker - Sorcerer AR15
M12-GM - Guardians of the Twelve-GM - Crown Store Heroes - ETU
RÀGE - R.I.P7 -
frozywozy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Like I said this morning on King's stream while he was experimenting a stamblade on the PTS during the maintenance, the key to stamblade is to slot ambush, surprise attack, fear and cloak, then you buy a cat and you make him walk over your keyboard to see the APs flows. All those comparisons with numbers don't matter. Nightblades have the best AOE disable in the game, the best gap closer in the game and the best survivability skill in the game. nuff said
Agreed on all accounts besides best survivability. When I think survivability, I think of the ability to tank damage and be mobile enough to get away from damage. I think that title absolutely goes to sorc due to their hardened ward and streak.
AOE disable... I think Talons would be up there with Hysteria. A little different, but still really good.
Not sure why NB's are even brought up in this thread. How does a NB come into this? They are the last thing I worry about when I play on my DK.
DK's need help. Stay on topic folks.Talons is not a disable, it's a root. Disables are any kind of CC that make you lose control of your character and make you unable to use any ability such as stuns, fears, silences and disorient effects.
I know the difference. To me, they are in the same league. I wouldn't say one is better than the other.
Wtf. It's like saying apples, oranges, grapes are all fruits. Potatoes are vegetables but for me they make no difference.
Allright then..Frozn - Stamdk - AR50
Frosted - Magplar - AR50
Frodn - Magden - AR50
Warmed - Magblade - AR50
Mmfrozy - Magsorc - AR44
Necrozn - Magcro - AR32
Twitch.TV/FrozyTV
PvP Group Builds
“Small minds discuss people, average minds discuss events, and great minds discuss ideas.” -Eleanor Roosevelt- Fix Volendrung (spawn location - weapon white on the map causing the wielder to keep it forever - usable with emperorship)
- Remove / Change CPs System, remove current CP/noCP campaigns and introduce one 30days with lock, one with no locks
- Fix crashes when approaching a keep under attack because of bad / wrong rendering prioritization system
- Change emperorship to value faction score points and not alliance points - see this and this
- Fix long loading screens (mostly caused by players joining group out of rendering range)
- Add 2 more quickslots to the wheel or add a different wheel for sieges weaponry only
- Fix Balista Bolts not dealing damage on walls or doors if deployed at a certain place
- Release bigger battlegrounds with 8 to 16 players per team and only two teams
- Fix the permanent block animation - see examples : link1 link2 link3 link4 link5
- Gives players 10 minutes to get back into Cyrodiil after relogging / crashing
- Add a function to ignore the Claiming system of useless rewards
- Improve the Mailing System / Rewards of the Worthy stacking
- Assign specific group sizes to specific campaigns (24-16-8)
- Make forward camps impossible to place near objectives
- Make snares only available from ground effects abilities
- Change emperorship to last minimum 24hours
- Fix body sliding after cc breaking too quickly
- Remove Block Casting through Battle Spirit
- Fix the speed drop while jumping - see video
- Fix loading screens when keeps upgrade
- Fix Rams going crazy (spinning around)
- Bring back dynamic ulti regeneration
- Fix speed bug (abilities locked)
- Introduce dynamic population
- Lower population cap by 20%
- Add Snare Immunity potions
- Bring resurrection sickness
- Fix character desync
- Fix cc breaking bug
- Fix gap closer bug
- Fix health desync
- Fix combat bug
- Fix streak bug
- Fix server lag
1 -
dodgehopper_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭RadioheadSh0t wrote: »
This is exactly what I said. You need mobility to escape.
1 vs 1 Stamina DK are kings but in open world the most important way to mitigate damage is the mobility.RadioheadSh0t wrote: »Every time I run against very good DKs in this game 1v1 I think about threads like these and how out of touch they can be at times (key words: at times; there are many valid and constructive points that I don't want to discredit).
1h/2h DKs are arguably one of the tougher 1v1 classes in the game. The best combination of mitigation and damage in the game currently.
Reflective scales should reflect all projectiles and the duration should be reduced to 3 secs or 2 secs.
U can use maneuver and what does the templar get? its a tankyclass issue and not a dk issue. nb and sorc are superiour due to their escapeability.
we would be superiour in meleecombat but they took our shields away... class system broken.
Not all classes should have the same skillset, though.
DKs can have escapability when my Sorc gets class heal and melee and my NB gets a class shield and heal.
Class balance does not mean all classes have the same skills.
Sorc does have heals, but they are based off of aggressive activities (much like nightblade). The clanfear is good for a quick burst heal, but obviously time has to be taken to summon it (You do realize not all Templar heals are instant right?). The healing pet doesn't heal for much, I'll grant you that. Dark exchange is actually pretty good, all things considered, particularly when you factor in things like class mobility and shielding. Finally there is crit surge, dark damage (8% heal), etc. I'm not going to say Sorcs are better at healing, but its hardly fair to say they have nothing. I use them all the time on mine.
The main point I wanted to make here, is that in its current state I would say Sorcs get better self healing than a DK now, which is not fair.Edited by dodgehopper_ESO on November 3, 2015 12:39AMUS/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
<And plenty more>4 -
Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭By the time that this class balance patch is out, Black Desert Online will probably have been released. I don't know why I bother anymore.
I will likely be playing Star Wars Battlefront, Fallout 4, Black Ops 3, and possibly other games in the near future if this does not improve. I have far too much to do nowadays, with only a few hours of free time every day save the weekend, to play a game in this state in that short amount of time.
I hate to be a pessimist, but what am I to do, sit here for another 6 months miserable because ZOS refuses to fix issues on a timely basis? I did not pay a $15 a month sub fee for a full on year, nor did the rest of the people playing at that time, for ZOS to start getting lazy. I personally blame the Crown Store, not having a sub fee keeping them on their toes surely has something to do with it, but what do I know? My only other MMO is WoW, compared to most people on here, I am still new.1 -
RadioheadSh0t✭✭✭✭✭By the time that this class balance patch is out, Black Desert Online will probably have been released. I don't know why I bother anymore.
I will likely be playing Star Wars Battlefront, Fallout 4, Black Ops 3, and possibly other games in the near future if this does not improve. I have far too much to do nowadays, with only a few hours of free time every day save the weekend, to play a game in this state in that short amount of time.
I hate to be a pessimist, but what am I to do, sit here for another 6 months miserable because ZOS refuses to fix issues on a timely basis? I did not pay a $15 a month sub fee for a full on year, nor did the rest of the people playing at that time, for ZOS to start getting lazy. I personally blame the Crown Store, not having a sub fee keeping them on their toes surely has something to do with it, but what do I know? My only other MMO is WoW, compared to most people on here, I am still new.
Hate to say it, but I agree with you.
ZOS punished players who had put thousands of hours into this game with IC.
Entire guilds, that were once prominent, have left the game. The grind before IC was absurd, after IC it's downright ridiculous.
So now I need 150 of one crafting material when it once took me 1/10th that to craft a piece? Yeah, that makes sense, and isn't a totally lame excuse to require players to sink time into the game...
Instead of forcing PvE on me, why not, for once, give PvP players something. I'd rather lose at a controlled PVP objective than win against some no-skill player who just jumps me while I'm trying to grind TV stones for my EFFING THREE v16 characters....
ZoS' attitude toward the PVP community before IC was suspect, now it's just embarrassing.
Unless they offer SIGNIFICANT PVP UPDATES for their next four update a year cycle, I will leave the game. I almost already have.Edited by RadioheadSh0t on November 3, 2015 7:59AMAldonius Direnni - Vet Altmer Sorc (AD)
Tyrus Telvanni - Vet Dunmer DK (AD)
Al Donius Bundy - Vet Imperial NB (AD)
Aldonius Brutus - Vet Orc DK (DC)2 -
Veg✭✭✭✭✭Eric Wobble is in charge of both PVE and PVP combat/skills. He doesn't even have a forum account. It's been almost 2 years of constant reports of broken skills and balance issues from dedicated players that put more time into finding these problems and thinking of solutions than the devs. Your broken class won't be fixed and lag will always a huge part of cyrodil. Whoever hired 1 person for balancing skills in both PVE and PVP doomed this game for anyone that wants to play it for a considerable amount of time.
Magic DK is under powered. The game was much more fun with dynamic ultimate generation. Ground oil's were the most effective zerg killer eso has ever seen and soft caps were the most important balancing in the game.
It's only going to get worse. There's a small amount of people that really care about these things compared to how many people buy the game and never reach alliance rank 20. Stop hoping that your problem will be fixed. It won't. Zenimax can make more money from pumping out new content rather than fixing the old content.
This game was approaching pure awesomeness around 1.3. They could have spent the time they wasted on removing soft caps and adding the champion system on balancing specific skills that could be synergized in a way that gives the user a clear advantage over all other play styles (infinitanking, infinite bats ect...). They could have taken the time (and money) to redo cryodil and fix the obvious problem with large scale combat. They could have added some other kind of PVP (battlegrounds, arenas, ect..). But they didn't. They made mistakes that will never be fixed. They will keep pumping out new content and people will continue to buy it. PVP was fun but it's time to move on.
Also, Battleborn : Dᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ7 -
Muizer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Decided to roll a NB a while ago after playing mostly stam DK. Imagine my surprise, and dismay, when even before I reached V1 I was doing more burst damage than my DK's have ever done. Wonder where that's going.
This was in regular PvE, so no battle leveling involved.Edited by Muizer on November 5, 2015 6:52PMPlease stop making requests for game features. ZOS have enough bad ideas as it is!0 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Eric Wobble is in charge of both PVE and PVP combat/skills. He doesn't even have a forum account. It's been almost 2 years of constant reports of broken skills and balance issues from dedicated players that put more time into finding these problems and thinking of solutions than the devs. Your broken class won't be fixed and lag will always a huge part of cyrodil. Whoever hired 1 person for balancing skills in both PVE and PVP doomed this game for anyone that wants to play it for a considerable amount of time.
Magic DK is under powered. The game was much more fun with dynamic ultimate generation. Ground oil's were the most effective zerg killer eso has ever seen and soft caps were the most important balancing in the game.
It's only going to get worse. There's a small amount of people that really care about these things compared to how many people buy the game and never reach alliance rank 20. Stop hoping that your problem will be fixed. It won't. Zenimax can make more money from pumping out new content rather than fixing the old content.
This game was approaching pure awesomeness around 1.3. They could have spent the time they wasted on removing soft caps and adding the champion system on balancing specific skills that could be synergized in a way that gives the user a clear advantage over all other play styles (infinitanking, infinite bats ect...). They could have taken the time (and money) to redo cryodil and fix the obvious problem with large scale combat. They could have added some other kind of PVP (battlegrounds, arenas, ect..). But they didn't. They made mistakes that will never be fixed. They will keep pumping out new content and people will continue to buy it. PVP was fun but it's time to move on.
Also, Battleborn : D
Honestly, gotta agree. As much as I love having 3k spell damage/2k regen or 5k weapon damage/2k regen--- the removal of soft caps threw quite a wrench in the way this game worked. As did something seemingly innocent like the removal of ground oils. I agree that they were one of, in conjuncture with dynamic ult, the most effective ways of breaking up large groups of people. This was a crucial part of PVP that has simply died and made everything infinitely worse.
There is maybe 3-5 people I've spoken to out of hundreds that think magicka dk in PVP is okay.
Everyone else I speak to can look at facts and see, wow, all these classes have X, but DK has no X. DK has no Y. ect ect ect. The largest issue, of all of the issues we have is the lack of communication. We can test and produce and report information all we want, but without a person speaking to us and communicating ZOS' side, it all feels rather useless. The first step in a long line of steps to save this game is to communicate with the player base more effectively. Use those community ambassadors we have and put them to work for the community in a way that supersedes their current role of exclusively forums.
From there we tackle server performance, class balance and a small scale arena and this game goes from a shelf life of 6 months to 6+ years.6 -
_Chaos✭✭✭✭✭
✭
There is maybe 3-5 people I've spoken to out of hundreds that think magicka dk in PVP is okay.
Everyone else I speak to can look at facts and see, wow, all these classes have X, but DK has no X. DK has no Y. ect ect ect. The largest issue, of all of the issues we have is the lack of communication. We can test and produce and report information all we want, but without a person speaking to us and communicating ZOS' side, it all feels rather useless. The first step in a long line of steps to save this game is to communicate with the player base more effectively. Use those community ambassadors we have and put them to work for the community in a way that supersedes their current role of exclusively forums.
From there we tackle server performance, class balance and a small scale arena and this game goes from a shelf life of 6 months to 6+ years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w1g-idt-8U 'Chaos0 -
Moglijuana✭✭✭✭✭Eric Wobble is in charge of both PVE and PVP combat/skills. He doesn't even have a forum account. It's been almost 2 years of constant reports of broken skills and balance issues from dedicated players that put more time into finding these problems and thinking of solutions than the devs. Your broken class won't be fixed and lag will always a huge part of cyrodil. Whoever hired 1 person for balancing skills in both PVE and PVP doomed this game for anyone that wants to play it for a considerable amount of time.
Magic DK is under powered. The game was much more fun with dynamic ultimate generation. Ground oil's were the most effective zerg killer eso has ever seen and soft caps were the most important balancing in the game.
It's only going to get worse. There's a small amount of people that really care about these things compared to how many people buy the game and never reach alliance rank 20. Stop hoping that your problem will be fixed. It won't. Zenimax can make more money from pumping out new content rather than fixing the old content.
This game was approaching pure awesomeness around 1.3. They could have spent the time they wasted on removing soft caps and adding the champion system on balancing specific skills that could be synergized in a way that gives the user a clear advantage over all other play styles (infinitanking, infinite bats ect...). They could have taken the time (and money) to redo cryodil and fix the obvious problem with large scale combat. They could have added some other kind of PVP (battlegrounds, arenas, ect..). But they didn't. They made mistakes that will never be fixed. They will keep pumping out new content and people will continue to buy it. PVP was fun but it's time to move on.
Also, Battleborn : D
Honestly, gotta agree. As much as I love having 3k spell damage/2k regen or 5k weapon damage/2k regen--- the removal of soft caps threw quite a wrench in the way this game worked. As did something seemingly innocent like the removal of ground oils. I agree that they were one of, in conjuncture with dynamic ult, the most effective ways of breaking up large groups of people. This was a crucial part of PVP that has simply died and made everything infinitely worse.
There is maybe 3-5 people I've spoken to out of hundreds that think magicka dk in PVP is okay.
Everyone else I speak to can look at facts and see, wow, all these classes have X, but DK has no X. DK has no Y. ect ect ect. The largest issue, of all of the issues we have is the lack of communication. We can test and produce and report information all we want, but without a person speaking to us and communicating ZOS' side, it all feels rather useless. The first step in a long line of steps to save this game is to communicate with the player base more effectively. Use those community ambassadors we have and put them to work for the community in a way that supersedes their current role of exclusively forums.
From there we tackle server performance, class balance and a small scale arena and this game goes from a shelf life of 6 months to 6+ years.
Amen. The PvE (and broken PvP) content they release will only last so long before (most if not all) people get bored of it. Yea, don't get me wrong the dungeons and trials are pretty cool, and the combat mechanics in this game are awesome. But it gets boring and ZoS doesn't seem to get it. However, if they focus on the competitive nature of gamers they will probably see a much bigger turnaround of active players to make even MORE money off of. There's a reason CoD makes millions and millions of dollars. The competitive aspect keeps people coming back. I'd rather play the same (balanced) PvP game forever than have to only play the same dungeons and broken zerg fests over and over again. Yea, we know ZoS can make some cool s**t, but if its boring after a week or two, whats the point? ANY kind of organized PvP would literally expand the lifetime of this game by a LONG time. But only if it is (somewhat) balanced. Not the broken ish we Magicka DK's got to deal with atm.Edited by Moglijuana on November 6, 2015 8:10PM2 -
PhatGrimReaper✭✭✭✭✭So, I just switched back to Magicka after getting bored af of spin-to-win....
The one glaring gap is the gap closer.... Magicka Templar - Toppling Charge.... Magicka NB - Lotus Fan.... Magicka Sorc - Streak..... DK - Crit Rush/Invasion..... I know we have chains, but it's so touchy and unpredictable. Any kind slight terrain variation and the ability becomes dicey at best. This forces Magicka DKs into either 2H or S&B......
Now, I know there are DKs running DW/Resto without a gap closer or using chains.... I take my hat off to ya, I just need to L2P maybe coz I can't make it work, however I see this as a big imbalance between Magicka DK and the other three classes. It just makes no sense that the one class that is so obviously designed to fight in melee combat is the only class that lacks a functional/reliable gap closer.
I see a couple of opportunities to fix this....
1. Make one of the Chains morphs into a real gap closer - Probably the Empowered option, I can honestly say I have never found a use for this morph.
2. Add a gap closer to the Vampire line. This line has remained with the same two abilities and ult since release, but has undergone changes to the passives that require you to slot a vamp ability to benefit from higher regen. I think a gap closing ability would nicely with the whole Pop-Out-of-Thin-Air thing that vamps do in the movies. Okay, this wouldn't be a DK only thing, but Vampire is still a popular choice for magicka DKs and giving this line a gap closer will help bridge the gap between DK and other magicka classes.Fat Grim Reaper - (m)Dragon Knight AR28
F G R Junior - Templar AR26
This One Had Name Changed - Nightblade AR19
Fat Grim Streaker - Sorcerer AR15
M12-GM - Guardians of the Twelve-GM - Crown Store Heroes - ETU
RÀGE - R.I.P2 -
Morozov✭✭✭blah blah blah...
Magic DK is under powered. The game was much more fun with dynamic ultimate generation. Ground oil's were the most effective zerg killer eso has ever seen and soft caps were the most important balancing in the game.
...blah blah blah
Also, Battleborn : D
ahh the good ol' days. Ground oils were fun and they made sense. Granted it made tower farms a pain to break up if people did them right, but I 100% agree they broke up a zerg like no other. MUCH better than what proxy-det intended to do.
There is maybe 3-5 people I've spoken to out of hundreds that think magicka dk in PVP is okay.
I will always play a magicka DK and I refuse to let anyone tell me otherwise. It isn't the faceroll class it once was, but ive seen it become a situational support role in the groups I run with. I cannot 1x1 with it anymore, and (I admit im not the best player in the game) when I get more than 3 players on me who know what they are doing im usually dead. It will always be fun for me to play even if I get rekt. I did the DW/resto thing and without fossilize or obsidian shard I would basically run around all willy nilly till I died or was forced to use LOS for everything. Im trying @Etaniel approach and going to the SnB route with invasion again. It seems to be working a bit better...only time will tell
Edited by Morozov on November 11, 2015 4:28PMAD
Victorem
PC - NA - AZ
Vr 16: Morozov - DK
Vr 1: Zephyr Grimm - Sorc
Vr 5: Sad_Bunnie - Templar
23: Repressed-Canadian-Rage - NB
Voted "Most likely to squirrel off the crown" PC-NA3 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There is no hope for DKs. Source --> https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/3thlqh/welcome_to_the_elder_scrolls_online_orsinium_aua/cx67g75
@Wrobel wants to increase the dot duration of the skills. But if he doesnt increase the damage we will have ticks with less damage than now. It will be a nerf not a buff. Even if they increase the damage, the DoTs in the current state are useless. It will buff DKs only in PvE and not in PvP.Because I can!4 -
Teargrants✭✭✭✭✭
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OMG that is so awful and clearly out of touch, I can't even.There is no hope for DKs. Source --> https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/3thlqh/welcome_to_the_elder_scrolls_online_orsinium_aua/cx67g75
@Wrobel wants to increase the dot duration of the skills. But if he doesnt increase the damage we will have ticks with less damage than now. It will be a nerf not a buff. Even if they increase the damage, the DoTs in the current state are useless. It will buff DKs only in PvE and not in PvP.
- Because DKs just need longer dots that get purged off anyways?ZOS_eWrobel 18 points 3 days ago
Overall we're looking at buffing some of the less used ability morphs.
DK - We're looking at making their dots stick to targets longer. Templar - Increasing effectiveness of some of their damage abilities. Sorcerer - Making more active abilities instead of toggles. Nightblade - Morph and passive ability improvements.
- Because Templars just need more dmg, not an unbugged gap closer?
- Because Sorcs just need non toggled pets?
- Because NB passives aren't good enough?
What a joke.
Edited by Teargrants on November 22, 2015 10:38PMPOST EQVITEM SEDET ATRA CVRA
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Rust_in_Peace✭✭✭✭✭Teargrants wrote: »- Because NB passives aren't good enough?
Executioner and Catalyst need to be looked at.
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Wollust✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Well.. Seems as if my DK is damned to be a crafter for as long as I stay in this game I guess?Susano'o
Zerg Squad2 -
RoamingRiverElk✭✭✭✭✭Where are the real buffs to the DK - i.e. sur-vi-va-bi-li-ty.Dalris Aalr - Magicka (Stamina) DK | Dalfish - Magicka Sorc | Dal Aalr - Magicka Warden | Dalrish - Mag/Stam NB | Irana Aalr - PvE Templar2
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CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Rust_in_Peace wrote: »Teargrants wrote: »- Because NB passives aren't good enough?
Executioner and Catalyst need to be looked at.
To be fair nb's have refreshing shadows, which alone is stronger than capacitor and elder dragon combined, then some.1 -
Teargrants✭✭✭✭✭
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I'm sorry, did you miss the official ZOS memo?RoamingRiverElk wrote: »Where are the real buffs to the DK - i.e. sur-vi-va-bi-li-ty.
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Teargrants✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It just keeps getting better.
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