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The Death of the Dragonknight- updated 3/15/16
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Dreyloch✭✭✭✭✭spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »
You ever see 2 magicka DK's go at it 1v1 lately? It's so painful to watch it's not even funny. Neither one of us can burn the other down within a 10 minute time frame
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7aghdhSnMM
OMFG, you just made my whole year ROFLMFAO. Ppl at work are like wtf are you giggling out loud about! I almost had pepsi come out my nose. It wouldn't be so funny if it wasn't such a great analogy to our situation. This ranks right up there with the Finding Nemo Patch Notes clip. Solid gold man, solid gold!"The fear of Death, is often worse than death itself"1 -
Ghostbane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LEAP PARTY!{★★★★★ · ★★★★★ · ★★ · ★★★★★}350m+ AP PC - EUAddons
AD :: Imported Waffles [37]EP :: Wee ee ee ee ee [16]DC :: Ghostbane's DK [16], Impending Loadscreen [12]PC - NA
AD :: Ghostbane [50], yer ma [43], Sir Humphrey Winterbottom 2.0 [18], robotic baby legs [18]EP :: Wee Mad Arthur [50], avast ye buttcrackz [49], Sir Horace Foghorn [27], Brother Ballbag [24], Scatman John [16]DC :: W T B Waffles [36], Morale Boost [30], W T F Waffles [17], Ghostbanë [15]RIPAD :: Sir Humphrey Winterbottom 1.0 [20]- AP Meter : All your AP needs
- Greyskull : Customisable, colour-coded Damage Meter
- Auto Research Scrolls : Automatic management of crafting research scrolls
- ITTs Donation Bot : Donation tracker for Guilds
- ITTs Roster Bot : Roster management for Guilds
2 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !
I agree. But I think another issue Jules has been heavily campaigning on is the overcast subject to all this, and it is that Magicka cannot keep up with Stamina. In terms of damage and of defensive options via CP.
When we establish a fine, constructive line between the two that have healthy countermeasures, I think then, we should analyse all classes.Moglijuana wrote: »Daily Bump. Glad I got to hear someone backing up the DK on the @Sypher PVP stream. Magicka DK is STILL and probably always will be my favorite class. #Jules4prez
Appreciate these and appreciate the bump @Etaniel and @Moglijuana
I really enjoy your vids Etaniel, I think you're a great player. I also appreciate the dk love you bring to the class. But just knowing your build and your stats makes me sad tbh, when I know much higher stats are achievable on other classes. And even higher if you weigh magicka vs stamina. And it's nothing you yourself are doing wrong by any means, just the class doesn't lend itself well to min maxing anymore. As @Ghostbane pointed out, magicka just flat out cannot keep up with stamina in this patch. And admittedly, hasn't been able to since 1.6. Anything I can achieve on a magicka dk, I can do better on a magicka sorc. Anything I can achieve on a stamina dk, I can do better on a stamina NB. Across the board- damage, regen, utility, survivability--- it's just so disheartening.
DK's really need to be looked at from the ground up. Someone REALLY needs to compare them to other classes in PVP and see how they stack up. I've attempted to do it here, but I mean someone from ZOS' side. Someone with the power to change things. For instance, why does a predominantly melee class have no stamina regen passive? Why does a melee class have no gap closer to get into melee range? It's just absolutely bonkers to me how these things aren't considered.
All too often, important matters such as these end up buried on the forums and never to be looked at again. It happened with AOE caps, it will happen with magicka dk. So many Magicka dks I know have just rerolled and accepted it at this point. Even I barely get on my DK and that's awful, but true. Eventually we will see a Cyrodiil that is nothing but 3 classes, all stamina. And Templar healers spamming BOL.
With no love for dk in upcoming orsinium- we're looking at early 2016 as the absolute earliest. I'll keep talking about it and yelling as loud as I can, to as many people as I can about this issue. But even I have to admit that when your cries fall on dead ears for months on end, what are you really supposed to do?
Regardless thanks for the kind words guys.
well i´m not 100% on your side here. i absolutly agree that magica in general is inferior to stamina without any reason e.g. my NB with 2975 weapon dmg heroic slash has a nearly 7k (6980ish) tooltip value, with the same magica stats (witch involves alot more equipment dedication) concealed weapon bearly excells 5k (5100ish) dmg both are melee attacks with utility additions (wich ontop at heroic slash side are alot more powerfull...).
but your small class comparison is significantly biased
in any group that actually wants to fight and not cop out the moment they face resistance a stamina DK is tons more worthy a slot than a stamina NB. while i do agree that nbs excell at "ganking" situations. comparable is the situation for your magica comparison.
another point regarding mana dks are dots - wich make them insanly powerfull in PVE is their bane in PVP as dots are totally useless in PVP as temps and nbs have instant cleanses on either highly used or extreamly cheap abilities and sorcs, even though dk-dots tick on shields their value compared with the shield size renders them totally bonkers(wich doesent matter much as a mana sorc will not kill a mana dk either:P). my personal solution for this point would be a general change in dot behaviour regardless of its source in PVP - to be only cleansable by the alliance cleanse and restrict that cleanse to affect only the user and the 3 direct groupmembers he is grouped with (no more battlegroup wide cleanses beside the templer synergy...)spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"3 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !
I agree. But I think another issue Jules has been heavily campaigning on is the overcast subject to all this, and it is that Magicka cannot keep up with Stamina. In terms of damage and of defensive options via CP.
When we establish a fine, constructive line between the two that have healthy countermeasures, I think then, we should analyse all classes.Moglijuana wrote: »Daily Bump. Glad I got to hear someone backing up the DK on the @Sypher PVP stream. Magicka DK is STILL and probably always will be my favorite class. #Jules4prez
Appreciate these and appreciate the bump @Etaniel and @Moglijuana
I really enjoy your vids Etaniel, I think you're a great player. I also appreciate the dk love you bring to the class. But just knowing your build and your stats makes me sad tbh, when I know much higher stats are achievable on other classes. And even higher if you weigh magicka vs stamina. And it's nothing you yourself are doing wrong by any means, just the class doesn't lend itself well to min maxing anymore. As @Ghostbane pointed out, magicka just flat out cannot keep up with stamina in this patch. And admittedly, hasn't been able to since 1.6. Anything I can achieve on a magicka dk, I can do better on a magicka sorc. Anything I can achieve on a stamina dk, I can do better on a stamina NB. Across the board- damage, regen, utility, survivability--- it's just so disheartening.
DK's really need to be looked at from the ground up. Someone REALLY needs to compare them to other classes in PVP and see how they stack up. I've attempted to do it here, but I mean someone from ZOS' side. Someone with the power to change things. For instance, why does a predominantly melee class have no stamina regen passive? Why does a melee class have no gap closer to get into melee range? It's just absolutely bonkers to me how these things aren't considered.
All too often, important matters such as these end up buried on the forums and never to be looked at again. It happened with AOE caps, it will happen with magicka dk. So many Magicka dks I know have just rerolled and accepted it at this point. Even I barely get on my DK and that's awful, but true. Eventually we will see a Cyrodiil that is nothing but 3 classes, all stamina. And Templar healers spamming BOL.
With no love for dk in upcoming orsinium- we're looking at early 2016 as the absolute earliest. I'll keep talking about it and yelling as loud as I can, to as many people as I can about this issue. But even I have to admit that when your cries fall on dead ears for months on end, what are you really supposed to do?
Regardless thanks for the kind words guys.
but your small class comparison is significantly biased in any group that actually wants to fight and not cop out the moment they face resistance a stamina DK is tons more worthy a slot than a stamina NB. while i do agree that nbs excell at "ganking" situations. comparable is the situation for your magica comparison.
another point regarding mana dks are dots - wich make them insanly powerfull in PVE is their bane in PVP as dots are totally useless in PVP as temps and nbs have instant cleanses on either highly used or extreamly cheap abilities and sorcs, even though dk-dots tick on shields their value compared with the shield size renders them totally bonkers(wich doesent matter much as a mana sorc will not kill a mana dk either:P). my personal solution for this point would be a general change in dot behaviour regardless of its source in PVP - to be only cleansable by the alliance cleanse and restrict that cleanse to affect only the user and the 3 direct groupmembers he is grouped with (no more battlegroup wide cleanses beside the templer synergy...)
In regards to stamina dk vs stamina NB, I have to say I completely disagree. Stamina NB is worlds stronger in any size group, due to things like FEAR, and also due to the sheer damage they output. In stealth they receive weapon damage bonuses, and in clouding swarm they are considered to be in stealth. This makes their steel tornado much stronger than a stamina DK's.4 -
sirston✭✭✭✭✭So looking at your graph my thoughts are backed up by experiment. I did a test before IC that the more champion points you had did less damage overall you did and your crit base was a absolute mess. I knew ZOS had a thing against DK's
But yet again ill say it again
Sirston Doesn't care Sirston has better games to play until they get smarter with there updates.Whitestakes Revenge
WoodElf Mag-Warden
Sirston
Magickia Dragonknight
T0XIC
Pride Of The Pact
Vehemence
The Crimson Order
victoria aut mors0 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !
I agree. But I think another issue Jules has been heavily campaigning on is the overcast subject to all this, and it is that Magicka cannot keep up with Stamina. In terms of damage and of defensive options via CP.
When we establish a fine, constructive line between the two that have healthy countermeasures, I think then, we should analyse all classes.Moglijuana wrote: »Daily Bump. Glad I got to hear someone backing up the DK on the @Sypher PVP stream. Magicka DK is STILL and probably always will be my favorite class. #Jules4prez
Appreciate these and appreciate the bump @Etaniel and @Moglijuana
I really enjoy your vids Etaniel, I think you're a great player. I also appreciate the dk love you bring to the class. But just knowing your build and your stats makes me sad tbh, when I know much higher stats are achievable on other classes. And even higher if you weigh magicka vs stamina. And it's nothing you yourself are doing wrong by any means, just the class doesn't lend itself well to min maxing anymore. As @Ghostbane pointed out, magicka just flat out cannot keep up with stamina in this patch. And admittedly, hasn't been able to since 1.6. Anything I can achieve on a magicka dk, I can do better on a magicka sorc. Anything I can achieve on a stamina dk, I can do better on a stamina NB. Across the board- damage, regen, utility, survivability--- it's just so disheartening.
DK's really need to be looked at from the ground up. Someone REALLY needs to compare them to other classes in PVP and see how they stack up. I've attempted to do it here, but I mean someone from ZOS' side. Someone with the power to change things. For instance, why does a predominantly melee class have no stamina regen passive? Why does a melee class have no gap closer to get into melee range? It's just absolutely bonkers to me how these things aren't considered.
All too often, important matters such as these end up buried on the forums and never to be looked at again. It happened with AOE caps, it will happen with magicka dk. So many Magicka dks I know have just rerolled and accepted it at this point. Even I barely get on my DK and that's awful, but true. Eventually we will see a Cyrodiil that is nothing but 3 classes, all stamina. And Templar healers spamming BOL.
With no love for dk in upcoming orsinium- we're looking at early 2016 as the absolute earliest. I'll keep talking about it and yelling as loud as I can, to as many people as I can about this issue. But even I have to admit that when your cries fall on dead ears for months on end, what are you really supposed to do?
Regardless thanks for the kind words guys.
but your small class comparison is significantly biased in any group that actually wants to fight and not cop out the moment they face resistance a stamina DK is tons more worthy a slot than a stamina NB. while i do agree that nbs excell at "ganking" situations. comparable is the situation for your magica comparison.
another point regarding mana dks are dots - wich make them insanly powerfull in PVE is their bane in PVP as dots are totally useless in PVP as temps and nbs have instant cleanses on either highly used or extreamly cheap abilities and sorcs, even though dk-dots tick on shields their value compared with the shield size renders them totally bonkers(wich doesent matter much as a mana sorc will not kill a mana dk either:P). my personal solution for this point would be a general change in dot behaviour regardless of its source in PVP - to be only cleansable by the alliance cleanse and restrict that cleanse to affect only the user and the 3 direct groupmembers he is grouped with (no more battlegroup wide cleanses beside the templer synergy...)
In regards to stamina dk vs stamina NB, I have to say I completely disagree. Stamina NB is worlds stronger in any size group, due to things like FEAR, and also due to the sheer damage they output. In stealth they receive weapon damage bonuses, and in clouding swarm they are considered to be in stealth. This makes their steel tornado much stronger than a stamina DK's.
not disagreeing here - the dmg innitiated by a NB is hihger than that of a DK but in smaller groups straight dmg is not everything. just watch the recent vids from yuke, fluffy and etaniel if they would have played NB´s instead of DKs those vids would have been impossible simply becasue of the way NBs are to be played. at some point the 3rd char - the groups healer - will be the only visibale target and thus melt like ice in the sun focused by everyone arround simply because of beeing the only target available (seen way to often on my healing sorc/temp
when running with my guild nightblades), wich is in return the end of the NBs as they have no way to handle multiple range attackers if not massivly healed by someone else - so they play with coping out in mind from the beginning and thats where i started off do you want to cop out NBs are great and awesome do you want to bring the fight to an end outside of ganking situations where you are simply overwhelming your opponent in a short amount of time nbs are losing ground to dks.
mana dks are currently in a misirable state solo as their class heal is gutted, their singel target dmg vs enemys paying attention is not great but once you add a healer they start to excell as their aedmg is great their cc and area denial are unmatched wich are necessary if not essential in micro groupsspelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"2 -
Jules✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !
I agree. But I think another issue Jules has been heavily campaigning on is the overcast subject to all this, and it is that Magicka cannot keep up with Stamina. In terms of damage and of defensive options via CP.
When we establish a fine, constructive line between the two that have healthy countermeasures, I think then, we should analyse all classes.Moglijuana wrote: »Daily Bump. Glad I got to hear someone backing up the DK on the @Sypher PVP stream. Magicka DK is STILL and probably always will be my favorite class. #Jules4prez
Appreciate these and appreciate the bump @Etaniel and @Moglijuana
I really enjoy your vids Etaniel, I think you're a great player. I also appreciate the dk love you bring to the class. But just knowing your build and your stats makes me sad tbh, when I know much higher stats are achievable on other classes. And even higher if you weigh magicka vs stamina. And it's nothing you yourself are doing wrong by any means, just the class doesn't lend itself well to min maxing anymore. As @Ghostbane pointed out, magicka just flat out cannot keep up with stamina in this patch. And admittedly, hasn't been able to since 1.6. Anything I can achieve on a magicka dk, I can do better on a magicka sorc. Anything I can achieve on a stamina dk, I can do better on a stamina NB. Across the board- damage, regen, utility, survivability--- it's just so disheartening.
DK's really need to be looked at from the ground up. Someone REALLY needs to compare them to other classes in PVP and see how they stack up. I've attempted to do it here, but I mean someone from ZOS' side. Someone with the power to change things. For instance, why does a predominantly melee class have no stamina regen passive? Why does a melee class have no gap closer to get into melee range? It's just absolutely bonkers to me how these things aren't considered.
All too often, important matters such as these end up buried on the forums and never to be looked at again. It happened with AOE caps, it will happen with magicka dk. So many Magicka dks I know have just rerolled and accepted it at this point. Even I barely get on my DK and that's awful, but true. Eventually we will see a Cyrodiil that is nothing but 3 classes, all stamina. And Templar healers spamming BOL.
With no love for dk in upcoming orsinium- we're looking at early 2016 as the absolute earliest. I'll keep talking about it and yelling as loud as I can, to as many people as I can about this issue. But even I have to admit that when your cries fall on dead ears for months on end, what are you really supposed to do?
Regardless thanks for the kind words guys.
but your small class comparison is significantly biased in any group that actually wants to fight and not cop out the moment they face resistance a stamina DK is tons more worthy a slot than a stamina NB. while i do agree that nbs excell at "ganking" situations. comparable is the situation for your magica comparison.
another point regarding mana dks are dots - wich make them insanly powerfull in PVE is their bane in PVP as dots are totally useless in PVP as temps and nbs have instant cleanses on either highly used or extreamly cheap abilities and sorcs, even though dk-dots tick on shields their value compared with the shield size renders them totally bonkers(wich doesent matter much as a mana sorc will not kill a mana dk either:P). my personal solution for this point would be a general change in dot behaviour regardless of its source in PVP - to be only cleansable by the alliance cleanse and restrict that cleanse to affect only the user and the 3 direct groupmembers he is grouped with (no more battlegroup wide cleanses beside the templer synergy...)
In regards to stamina dk vs stamina NB, I have to say I completely disagree. Stamina NB is worlds stronger in any size group, due to things like FEAR, and also due to the sheer damage they output. In stealth they receive weapon damage bonuses, and in clouding swarm they are considered to be in stealth. This makes their steel tornado much stronger than a stamina DK's.
not disagreeing here - the dmg innitiated by a NB is hihger than that of a DK but in smaller groups straight dmg is not everything. just watch the recent vids from yuke, fluffy and etaniel if they would have played NB´s instead of DKs those vids would have been impossible simply becasue of the way NBs are to be played. at some point the 3rd char - the groups healer - will be the only visibale target and thus melt like ice in the sun focused by everyone arround simply because of beeing the only target available (seen way to often on my healing sorc/temp when running with my guild nightblades), wich is in return the end of the NBs as they have no way to handle multiple range attackers if not massivly healed by someone else - so they play with coping out in mind from the beginning and thats where i started off do you want to cop out NBs are great and awesome do you want to bring the fight to an end outside of ganking situations where you are simply overwhelming your opponent in a short amount of time nbs are losing ground to dks.
mana dks are currently in a misirable state solo as their class heal is gutted, their singel target dmg vs enemys paying attention is not great but once you add a healer they start to excell as their aedmg is great their cc and area denial are unmatched wich are necessary if not essential in micro groups
Fair points. I hadn't thought of the actual playstyles just the utilities of the classes, but you're right. In some specific situations nbs will be better.0 -
Isbilen✭✭✭✭✭Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !
I agree. But I think another issue Jules has been heavily campaigning on is the overcast subject to all this, and it is that Magicka cannot keep up with Stamina. In terms of damage and of defensive options via CP.
When we establish a fine, constructive line between the two that have healthy countermeasures, I think then, we should analyse all classes.Moglijuana wrote: »Daily Bump. Glad I got to hear someone backing up the DK on the @Sypher PVP stream. Magicka DK is STILL and probably always will be my favorite class. #Jules4prez
Appreciate these and appreciate the bump @Etaniel and @Moglijuana
I really enjoy your vids Etaniel, I think you're a great player. I also appreciate the dk love you bring to the class. But just knowing your build and your stats makes me sad tbh, when I know much higher stats are achievable on other classes. And even higher if you weigh magicka vs stamina. And it's nothing you yourself are doing wrong by any means, just the class doesn't lend itself well to min maxing anymore. As @Ghostbane pointed out, magicka just flat out cannot keep up with stamina in this patch. And admittedly, hasn't been able to since 1.6. Anything I can achieve on a magicka dk, I can do better on a magicka sorc. Anything I can achieve on a stamina dk, I can do better on a stamina NB. Across the board- damage, regen, utility, survivability--- it's just so disheartening.
DK's really need to be looked at from the ground up. Someone REALLY needs to compare them to other classes in PVP and see how they stack up. I've attempted to do it here, but I mean someone from ZOS' side. Someone with the power to change things. For instance, why does a predominantly melee class have no stamina regen passive? Why does a melee class have no gap closer to get into melee range? It's just absolutely bonkers to me how these things aren't considered.
All too often, important matters such as these end up buried on the forums and never to be looked at again. It happened with AOE caps, it will happen with magicka dk. So many Magicka dks I know have just rerolled and accepted it at this point. Even I barely get on my DK and that's awful, but true. Eventually we will see a Cyrodiil that is nothing but 3 classes, all stamina. And Templar healers spamming BOL.
With no love for dk in upcoming orsinium- we're looking at early 2016 as the absolute earliest. I'll keep talking about it and yelling as loud as I can, to as many people as I can about this issue. But even I have to admit that when your cries fall on dead ears for months on end, what are you really supposed to do?
Regardless thanks for the kind words guys.
but your small class comparison is significantly biased in any group that actually wants to fight and not cop out the moment they face resistance a stamina DK is tons more worthy a slot than a stamina NB. while i do agree that nbs excell at "ganking" situations. comparable is the situation for your magica comparison.
another point regarding mana dks are dots - wich make them insanly powerfull in PVE is their bane in PVP as dots are totally useless in PVP as temps and nbs have instant cleanses on either highly used or extreamly cheap abilities and sorcs, even though dk-dots tick on shields their value compared with the shield size renders them totally bonkers(wich doesent matter much as a mana sorc will not kill a mana dk either:P). my personal solution for this point would be a general change in dot behaviour regardless of its source in PVP - to be only cleansable by the alliance cleanse and restrict that cleanse to affect only the user and the 3 direct groupmembers he is grouped with (no more battlegroup wide cleanses beside the templer synergy...)
In regards to stamina dk vs stamina NB, I have to say I completely disagree. Stamina NB is worlds stronger in any size group, due to things like FEAR, and also due to the sheer damage they output. In stealth they receive weapon damage bonuses, and in clouding swarm they are considered to be in stealth. This makes their steel tornado much stronger than a stamina DK's.
not disagreeing here - the dmg innitiated by a NB is hihger than that of a DK but in smaller groups straight dmg is not everything. just watch the recent vids from yuke, fluffy and etaniel if they would have played NB´s instead of DKs those vids would have been impossible simply becasue of the way NBs are to be played. at some point the 3rd char - the groups healer - will be the only visibale target and thus melt like ice in the sun focused by everyone arround simply because of beeing the only target available (seen way to often on my healing sorc/temp when running with my guild nightblades), wich is in return the end of the NBs as they have no way to handle multiple range attackers if not massivly healed by someone else - so they play with coping out in mind from the beginning and thats where i started off do you want to cop out NBs are great and awesome do you want to bring the fight to an end outside of ganking situations where you are simply overwhelming your opponent in a short amount of time nbs are losing ground to dks.
mana dks are currently in a misirable state solo as their class heal is gutted, their singel target dmg vs enemys paying attention is not great but once you add a healer they start to excell as their aedmg is great their cc and area denial are unmatched wich are necessary if not essential in micro groups
Sorry, but how exactly is a stamina DK inherently any tankier than a stamina NB? Nightblades can wear heavy armor and 1h/shield too.1 -
Rust_in_Peace✭✭✭✭✭Sorry, but how exactly is a stamina DK inherently any tankier than a stamina NB? Nightblades can wear heavy armor and 1h/shield too.
Base class passives. The Draconic tree has block, spell resistance, healing taken and health regen. Those are all inherently tanky buffs that all DKs get for being their class.
I think that stam DKs are better than stam NBs for group pvp. Leap is insanely powerful and I would argue the best ultimate in the game; it deals a ton of damage, has a huge range and is a hard CC. While the damage of things like steel tornado between the 2 classes is comparable that's largely irrelevant because it isn't class based. Yes fear is a great tool but so is talons (boo, hiss, talons is bad) because even though it's a soft CC the synergy damage is high and everyone in the group is doing free damage while building their own ultimate.1 -
Isbilen✭✭✭✭✭Rust_in_Peace wrote: »Sorry, but how exactly is a stamina DK inherently any tankier than a stamina NB? Nightblades can wear heavy armor and 1h/shield too.
Base class passives. The Draconic tree has block, spell resistance, healing taken and health regen. Those are all inherently tanky buffs that all DKs get for being their class.
I think that stam DKs are better than stam NBs for group pvp. Leap is insanely powerful and I would argue the best ultimate in the game; it deals a ton of damage, has a huge range and is a hard CC. While the damage of things like steel tornado between the 2 classes is comparable that's largely irrelevant because it isn't class based. Yes fear is a great tool but so is talons (boo, hiss, talons is bad) because even though it's a soft CC the synergy damage is high and everyone in the group is doing free damage while building their own ultimate.
Okay, let's compare passives then:
The DK health recovery blows compared to the NB one for not only 15% health recovery but the other two pools as well. 5% per Draconic Power ability slotted, meaning you will have to waste 3/5 slots on magicka abilities just to get up to NB level health recovery.
Getting the healing received bonus requires you to slot AND USE a magicka ability. Nightblades get the same buff just for having one slotted (Swallow Soul) and not having to use it. On one hand the DK is better because you can switch weapons and still have it active, but on the other hand the Nightblade one gets stronger from numbers, adding another 2% to Healing Done.
As for the blocking and spell resistance passives, fair point, but they're hardly powerful enough to make any real difference. The block mitigation comes out much lower in reality, and is in the most useless state it has ever been in with no stamina recovery while blocking. And not that I normally play in groups, but I can imagine that if you walk around holding block in one you're going to fall behind the rest fast walking there at half speed. 3300 spell resistance is what, 2 or 3% mitigation?
2 -
Rust_in_Peace✭✭✭✭✭
Okay, let's compare passives then:
The DK health recovery blows compared to the NB one for not only 15% health recovery but the other two pools as well. 5% per Draconic Power ability slotted, meaning you will have to waste 3/5 slots on magicka abilities just to get up to NB level health recovery.
Getting the healing received bonus requires you to slot AND USE a magicka ability. Nightblades get the same buff just for having one slotted (Swallow Soul) and not having to use it. On one hand the DK is better because you can switch weapons and still have it active, but on the other hand the Nightblade one gets stronger from numbers, adding another 2% to Healing Done.
As for the blocking and spell resistance passives, fair point, but they're hardly powerful enough to make any real difference. The block mitigation comes out much lower in reality, and is in the most useless state it has ever been in with no stamina recovery while blocking. And not that I normally play in groups, but I can imagine that if you walk around holding block in one you're going to fall behind the rest fast walking there at half speed. 3300 spell resistance is what, 2 or 3% mitigation?
Come on now. If you stack Igneous shield, slot dragon leap and use 1 draconic ability your self healing goes through the roof.Edited by Rust_in_Peace on November 1, 2015 3:41PM0 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
And that is why GDB is the best skill in the game right now.Rust_in_Peace wrote: »
Okay, let's compare passives then:
The DK health recovery blows compared to the NB one for not only 15% health recovery but the other two pools as well. 5% per Draconic Power ability slotted, meaning you will have to waste 3/5 slots on magicka abilities just to get up to NB level health recovery.
Getting the healing received bonus requires you to slot AND USE a magicka ability. Nightblades get the same buff just for having one slotted (Swallow Soul) and not having to use it. On one hand the DK is better because you can switch weapons and still have it active, but on the other hand the Nightblade one gets stronger from numbers, adding another 2% to Healing Done.
As for the blocking and spell resistance passives, fair point, but they're hardly powerful enough to make any real difference. The block mitigation comes out much lower in reality, and is in the most useless state it has ever been in with no stamina recovery while blocking. And not that I normally play in groups, but I can imagine that if you walk around holding block in one you're going to fall behind the rest fast walking there at half speed. 3300 spell resistance is what, 2 or 3% mitigation?
Come on now. If you stack Igneous shield, slot dragon leap and use 1 draconic ability your self healing goes through the roof.
/sarcasm
P.S And the bold part is health recovery and you are talking about increase healing done and increase healing received.
Because I can!0 -
Ishammael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Rust_in_Peace wrote: »
Okay, let's compare passives then:
The DK health recovery blows compared to the NB one for not only 15% health recovery but the other two pools as well. 5% per Draconic Power ability slotted, meaning you will have to waste 3/5 slots on magicka abilities just to get up to NB level health recovery.
Getting the healing received bonus requires you to slot AND USE a magicka ability. Nightblades get the same buff just for having one slotted (Swallow Soul) and not having to use it. On one hand the DK is better because you can switch weapons and still have it active, but on the other hand the Nightblade one gets stronger from numbers, adding another 2% to Healing Done.
As for the blocking and spell resistance passives, fair point, but they're hardly powerful enough to make any real difference. The block mitigation comes out much lower in reality, and is in the most useless state it has ever been in with no stamina recovery while blocking. And not that I normally play in groups, but I can imagine that if you walk around holding block in one you're going to fall behind the rest fast walking there at half speed. 3300 spell resistance is what, 2 or 3% mitigation?
Come on now. If you stack Igneous shield, slot dragon leap and use 1 draconic ability your self healing goes through the roof.
Rust, buddy... what the hell are you talking about?
0 -
Rust_in_Peace✭✭✭✭✭I'm just talking about potentially stacking heals and buffs to improve healing done to yourself as a DK.
eg.
- Dragon Leap will give you 5% hp recovery while slotted.
- Keeping Igneous Shield up will buff your self healing
- DGB, I know it's not as strong as it used to be, gives another 5% recovery plus self healing if you take Coag morph
- cast Rally
- cast Vigor
I don't know why I'm even explaining this when all I originally said was DK has a few tanky passives. Maybe there's something I'm missing and if that's the case I apologize.Edited by Rust_in_Peace on November 1, 2015 7:20PM0 -
RadioheadSh0t✭✭✭✭✭Rust_in_Peace wrote: »I'm just talking about potentially stacking heals and buffs to improve healing done to yourself as a DK.
eg.
- Dragon Leap will give you 5% hp recovery while slotted.
- Keeping Igneous Shield up will buff your self healing
- DGB, I know it's not as strong as it used to be, gives another 5% recovery plus self healing if you take Coag morph
- cast Rally
- cast Vigor
I don't know why I'm even explaining this when all I originally said was DK has a few tanky passives. Maybe there's something I'm missing and if that's the case I apologize.
There isn't anything you're missing, you're absolutely right.
The block passive especially adds to a DKs comparative tankiness.Aldonius Direnni - Vet Altmer Sorc (AD)
Tyrus Telvanni - Vet Dunmer DK (AD)
Al Donius Bundy - Vet Imperial NB (AD)
Aldonius Brutus - Vet Orc DK (DC)0 -
KeplerMG✭✭✭What happened to the DK will happen to all classes, and this cycle will keep happening until the game is a boring mess. That is the self-destructive nature of the MMO. They cave into themselves and die.2
-
Agreed, i have 2 vet level Dk's a magika based and a stamina based dps and both struggleSelcouth Nexus V16 Templar Magika Healer/Dps
Mrs Schadenfreude V16 Magika Sorc Dps/off heals
Malevolent Lust v16 DK Stam Dps/tank
Mephala's Rage v16 NB Magika Dps
Lara Nipplestorm v16 DK Magika DPS0 -
Erudition✭✭✭Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !
I agree. But I think another issue Jules has been heavily campaigning on is the overcast subject to all this, and it is that Magicka cannot keep up with Stamina. In terms of damage and of defensive options via CP.
When we establish a fine, constructive line between the two that have healthy countermeasures, I think then, we should analyse all classes.Moglijuana wrote: »Daily Bump. Glad I got to hear someone backing up the DK on the @Sypher PVP stream. Magicka DK is STILL and probably always will be my favorite class. #Jules4prez
Appreciate these and appreciate the bump @Etaniel and @Moglijuana
I really enjoy your vids Etaniel, I think you're a great player. I also appreciate the dk love you bring to the class. But just knowing your build and your stats makes me sad tbh, when I know much higher stats are achievable on other classes. And even higher if you weigh magicka vs stamina. And it's nothing you yourself are doing wrong by any means, just the class doesn't lend itself well to min maxing anymore. As @Ghostbane pointed out, magicka just flat out cannot keep up with stamina in this patch. And admittedly, hasn't been able to since 1.6. Anything I can achieve on a magicka dk, I can do better on a magicka sorc. Anything I can achieve on a stamina dk, I can do better on a stamina NB. Across the board- damage, regen, utility, survivability--- it's just so disheartening.
DK's really need to be looked at from the ground up. Someone REALLY needs to compare them to other classes in PVP and see how they stack up. I've attempted to do it here, but I mean someone from ZOS' side. Someone with the power to change things. For instance, why does a predominantly melee class have no stamina regen passive? Why does a melee class have no gap closer to get into melee range? It's just absolutely bonkers to me how these things aren't considered.
All too often, important matters such as these end up buried on the forums and never to be looked at again. It happened with AOE caps, it will happen with magicka dk. So many Magicka dks I know have just rerolled and accepted it at this point. Even I barely get on my DK and that's awful, but true. Eventually we will see a Cyrodiil that is nothing but 3 classes, all stamina. And Templar healers spamming BOL.
With no love for dk in upcoming orsinium- we're looking at early 2016 as the absolute earliest. I'll keep talking about it and yelling as loud as I can, to as many people as I can about this issue. But even I have to admit that when your cries fall on dead ears for months on end, what are you really supposed to do?
Regardless thanks for the kind words guys.
but your small class comparison is significantly biased in any group that actually wants to fight and not cop out the moment they face resistance a stamina DK is tons more worthy a slot than a stamina NB. while i do agree that nbs excell at "ganking" situations. comparable is the situation for your magica comparison.
another point regarding mana dks are dots - wich make them insanly powerfull in PVE is their bane in PVP as dots are totally useless in PVP as temps and nbs have instant cleanses on either highly used or extreamly cheap abilities and sorcs, even though dk-dots tick on shields their value compared with the shield size renders them totally bonkers(wich doesent matter much as a mana sorc will not kill a mana dk either:P). my personal solution for this point would be a general change in dot behaviour regardless of its source in PVP - to be only cleansable by the alliance cleanse and restrict that cleanse to affect only the user and the 3 direct groupmembers he is grouped with (no more battlegroup wide cleanses beside the templer synergy...)
In regards to stamina dk vs stamina NB, I have to say I completely disagree. Stamina NB is worlds stronger in any size group, due to things like FEAR, and also due to the sheer damage they output. In stealth they receive weapon damage bonuses, and in clouding swarm they are considered to be in stealth. This makes their steel tornado much stronger than a stamina DK's.
100% agree - only *** think stam dk's have anywhere near as much power as stam nb's atm - stam nb op a f.
0 -
MountainHound✭✭✭✭I went on my DK Stamina last night and I personally loved it. I forgot how tanky they naturally are and as crown, was a nice change from being potato fodder. I'm not sure why, I just feel more secure with it that on my Stamina sorc and seem to play more aggressive on it.1
-
Ishammael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Rust_in_Peace wrote: »I'm just talking about potentially stacking heals and buffs to improve healing done to yourself as a DK.
eg.
- Dragon Leap will give you 5% hp recovery while slotted.
- Keeping Igneous Shield up will buff your self healing
- DGB, I know it's not as strong as it used to be, gives another 5% recovery plus self healing if you take Coag morph
- cast Rally
- cast Vigor
I don't know why I'm even explaining this when all I originally said was DK has a few tanky passives. Maybe there's something I'm missing and if that's the case I apologize.
The 5% health regen is worthless.
Green Dragon Blood heals for 33% of missing health.... minus 50%. Even with Igneous cast prior it is mostly nonviable unless you stack hard into healing received in the CP trees.
The Block Damage mitigation passive is now basically worthless since IC dropped. You don't regen stamina while blocking. It is therefore mathematically nonviable to block -- ever -- while spec'ed into anything other than block cost reduction (e.g. magicka or stamina DD). Specing into block cost reduction requires heavy armor, 1h/sh, and CP passives and destroys your ability to do any damage.2 -
frozywozy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Like I said this morning on King's stream while he was experimenting a stamblade on the PTS during the maintenance, the key to stamblade is to slot ambush, surprise attack, fear and cloak, then you buy a cat and you make him walk over your keyboard to see the APs flows. All those comparisons with numbers don't matter. Nightblades have the best AOE disable in the game, the best gap closer in the game and the best survivability skill in the game. nuff saidEdited by frozywozy on November 2, 2015 12:35PMFrozn - Stamdk - AR50
Frosted - Magplar - AR50
Frodn - Magden - AR50
Warmed - Magblade - AR50
Mmfrozy - Magsorc - AR44
Necrozn - Magcro - AR32
Twitch.TV/FrozyTV
PvP Group Builds
“Small minds discuss people, average minds discuss events, and great minds discuss ideas.” -Eleanor Roosevelt- Fix Volendrung (spawn location - weapon white on the map causing the wielder to keep it forever - usable with emperorship)
- Remove / Change CPs System, remove current CP/noCP campaigns and introduce one 30days with lock, one with no locks
- Fix crashes when approaching a keep under attack because of bad / wrong rendering prioritization system
- Change emperorship to value faction score points and not alliance points - see this and this
- Fix long loading screens (mostly caused by players joining group out of rendering range)
- Add 2 more quickslots to the wheel or add a different wheel for sieges weaponry only
- Fix Balista Bolts not dealing damage on walls or doors if deployed at a certain place
- Release bigger battlegrounds with 8 to 16 players per team and only two teams
- Fix the permanent block animation - see examples : link1 link2 link3 link4 link5
- Gives players 10 minutes to get back into Cyrodiil after relogging / crashing
- Add a function to ignore the Claiming system of useless rewards
- Improve the Mailing System / Rewards of the Worthy stacking
- Assign specific group sizes to specific campaigns (24-16-8)
- Make forward camps impossible to place near objectives
- Make snares only available from ground effects abilities
- Change emperorship to last minimum 24hours
- Fix body sliding after cc breaking too quickly
- Remove Block Casting through Battle Spirit
- Fix the speed drop while jumping - see video
- Fix loading screens when keeps upgrade
- Fix Rams going crazy (spinning around)
- Bring back dynamic ulti regeneration
- Fix speed bug (abilities locked)
- Introduce dynamic population
- Lower population cap by 20%
- Add Snare Immunity potions
- Bring resurrection sickness
- Fix character desync
- Fix cc breaking bug
- Fix gap closer bug
- Fix health desync
- Fix combat bug
- Fix streak bug
- Fix server lag
3 -
Ishammael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Like I said this morning on King's stream while he was experimenting a stamblade on the PTS during the maintenance, the key to stamblade is to slot ambush, surprise attack, fear and cloak, then you buy a cat and you make him walk over your keyboard to see the APs flows. All those comparisons with numbers don't matter. Nightblades have the best AOE disable in the game, the best gap closer in the game and the best survivability skill in the game. nuff said
The amush "root" kills me so much.
>.<0 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !
I agree. But I think another issue Jules has been heavily campaigning on is the overcast subject to all this, and it is that Magicka cannot keep up with Stamina. In terms of damage and of defensive options via CP.
When we establish a fine, constructive line between the two that have healthy countermeasures, I think then, we should analyse all classes.Moglijuana wrote: »Daily Bump. Glad I got to hear someone backing up the DK on the @Sypher PVP stream. Magicka DK is STILL and probably always will be my favorite class. #Jules4prez
Appreciate these and appreciate the bump @Etaniel and @Moglijuana
I really enjoy your vids Etaniel, I think you're a great player. I also appreciate the dk love you bring to the class. But just knowing your build and your stats makes me sad tbh, when I know much higher stats are achievable on other classes. And even higher if you weigh magicka vs stamina. And it's nothing you yourself are doing wrong by any means, just the class doesn't lend itself well to min maxing anymore. As @Ghostbane pointed out, magicka just flat out cannot keep up with stamina in this patch. And admittedly, hasn't been able to since 1.6. Anything I can achieve on a magicka dk, I can do better on a magicka sorc. Anything I can achieve on a stamina dk, I can do better on a stamina NB. Across the board- damage, regen, utility, survivability--- it's just so disheartening.
DK's really need to be looked at from the ground up. Someone REALLY needs to compare them to other classes in PVP and see how they stack up. I've attempted to do it here, but I mean someone from ZOS' side. Someone with the power to change things. For instance, why does a predominantly melee class have no stamina regen passive? Why does a melee class have no gap closer to get into melee range? It's just absolutely bonkers to me how these things aren't considered.
All too often, important matters such as these end up buried on the forums and never to be looked at again. It happened with AOE caps, it will happen with magicka dk. So many Magicka dks I know have just rerolled and accepted it at this point. Even I barely get on my DK and that's awful, but true. Eventually we will see a Cyrodiil that is nothing but 3 classes, all stamina. And Templar healers spamming BOL.
With no love for dk in upcoming orsinium- we're looking at early 2016 as the absolute earliest. I'll keep talking about it and yelling as loud as I can, to as many people as I can about this issue. But even I have to admit that when your cries fall on dead ears for months on end, what are you really supposed to do?
Regardless thanks for the kind words guys.
but your small class comparison is significantly biased in any group that actually wants to fight and not cop out the moment they face resistance a stamina DK is tons more worthy a slot than a stamina NB. while i do agree that nbs excell at "ganking" situations. comparable is the situation for your magica comparison.
another point regarding mana dks are dots - wich make them insanly powerfull in PVE is their bane in PVP as dots are totally useless in PVP as temps and nbs have instant cleanses on either highly used or extreamly cheap abilities and sorcs, even though dk-dots tick on shields their value compared with the shield size renders them totally bonkers(wich doesent matter much as a mana sorc will not kill a mana dk either:P). my personal solution for this point would be a general change in dot behaviour regardless of its source in PVP - to be only cleansable by the alliance cleanse and restrict that cleanse to affect only the user and the 3 direct groupmembers he is grouped with (no more battlegroup wide cleanses beside the templer synergy...)
In regards to stamina dk vs stamina NB, I have to say I completely disagree. Stamina NB is worlds stronger in any size group, due to things like FEAR, and also due to the sheer damage they output. In stealth they receive weapon damage bonuses, and in clouding swarm they are considered to be in stealth. This makes their steel tornado much stronger than a stamina DK's.
not disagreeing here - the dmg innitiated by a NB is hihger than that of a DK but in smaller groups straight dmg is not everything. just watch the recent vids from yuke, fluffy and etaniel if they would have played NB´s instead of DKs those vids would have been impossible simply becasue of the way NBs are to be played. at some point the 3rd char - the groups healer - will be the only visibale target and thus melt like ice in the sun focused by everyone arround simply because of beeing the only target available (seen way to often on my healing sorc/temp when running with my guild nightblades), wich is in return the end of the NBs as they have no way to handle multiple range attackers if not massivly healed by someone else - so they play with coping out in mind from the beginning and thats where i started off do you want to cop out NBs are great and awesome do you want to bring the fight to an end outside of ganking situations where you are simply overwhelming your opponent in a short amount of time nbs are losing ground to dks.
mana dks are currently in a misirable state solo as their class heal is gutted, their singel target dmg vs enemys paying attention is not great but once you add a healer they start to excell as their aedmg is great their cc and area denial are unmatched wich are necessary if not essential in micro groups
Sorry, but how exactly is a stamina DK inherently any tankier than a stamina NB? Nightblades can wear heavy armor and 1h/shield too.
beside whats allready mentioned - don´t forget your flaps negating 20-80k dmg (including procs etc.) in a "crowdy" situation is a f.cking lot of tankiness increasement...Like I said this morning on King's stream while he was experimenting a stamblade on the PTS during the maintenance, the key to stamblade is to slot ambush, surprise attack, fear and cloak, then you buy a cat and you make him walk over your keyboard to see the APs flows. All those comparisons with numbers don't matter. Nightblades have the best AOE disable in the game, the best gap closer in the game and the best survivability skill in the game. nuff said
well, ambush is preferred by NBs because it has no weapon prequisite - thx to its mechanic you cant weave anything into it compared to e.g crit rush wich i would prefer if i would not be addicted to DW on my NB.
and the best aoe disable actually is tangling webs as its not restricted to 3 targets :P
so the best gapcloser is from my pov is crit rush, hihger dmg than ambush itself (outside of the initial gap closing), with the ability to weave a heavy& WB into it significant more dmg in a shorter timeframe. and the best aoe disable is actually a skill available by everybody.
regarding the best survival skill i whole heartly do agree. (they should have never touched stealth detect pots)spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"0 -
Etaniel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !
I agree. But I think another issue Jules has been heavily campaigning on is the overcast subject to all this, and it is that Magicka cannot keep up with Stamina. In terms of damage and of defensive options via CP.
When we establish a fine, constructive line between the two that have healthy countermeasures, I think then, we should analyse all classes.Moglijuana wrote: »Daily Bump. Glad I got to hear someone backing up the DK on the @Sypher PVP stream. Magicka DK is STILL and probably always will be my favorite class. #Jules4prez
Appreciate these and appreciate the bump @Etaniel and @Moglijuana
I really enjoy your vids Etaniel, I think you're a great player. I also appreciate the dk love you bring to the class. But just knowing your build and your stats makes me sad tbh, when I know much higher stats are achievable on other classes. And even higher if you weigh magicka vs stamina. And it's nothing you yourself are doing wrong by any means, just the class doesn't lend itself well to min maxing anymore. As @Ghostbane pointed out, magicka just flat out cannot keep up with stamina in this patch. And admittedly, hasn't been able to since 1.6. Anything I can achieve on a magicka dk, I can do better on a magicka sorc. Anything I can achieve on a stamina dk, I can do better on a stamina NB. Across the board- damage, regen, utility, survivability--- it's just so disheartening.
DK's really need to be looked at from the ground up. Someone REALLY needs to compare them to other classes in PVP and see how they stack up. I've attempted to do it here, but I mean someone from ZOS' side. Someone with the power to change things. For instance, why does a predominantly melee class have no stamina regen passive? Why does a melee class have no gap closer to get into melee range? It's just absolutely bonkers to me how these things aren't considered.
All too often, important matters such as these end up buried on the forums and never to be looked at again. It happened with AOE caps, it will happen with magicka dk. So many Magicka dks I know have just rerolled and accepted it at this point. Even I barely get on my DK and that's awful, but true. Eventually we will see a Cyrodiil that is nothing but 3 classes, all stamina. And Templar healers spamming BOL.
With no love for dk in upcoming orsinium- we're looking at early 2016 as the absolute earliest. I'll keep talking about it and yelling as loud as I can, to as many people as I can about this issue. But even I have to admit that when your cries fall on dead ears for months on end, what are you really supposed to do?
Regardless thanks for the kind words guys.
but your small class comparison is significantly biased in any group that actually wants to fight and not cop out the moment they face resistance a stamina DK is tons more worthy a slot than a stamina NB. while i do agree that nbs excell at "ganking" situations. comparable is the situation for your magica comparison.
another point regarding mana dks are dots - wich make them insanly powerfull in PVE is their bane in PVP as dots are totally useless in PVP as temps and nbs have instant cleanses on either highly used or extreamly cheap abilities and sorcs, even though dk-dots tick on shields their value compared with the shield size renders them totally bonkers(wich doesent matter much as a mana sorc will not kill a mana dk either:P). my personal solution for this point would be a general change in dot behaviour regardless of its source in PVP - to be only cleansable by the alliance cleanse and restrict that cleanse to affect only the user and the 3 direct groupmembers he is grouped with (no more battlegroup wide cleanses beside the templer synergy...)
In regards to stamina dk vs stamina NB, I have to say I completely disagree. Stamina NB is worlds stronger in any size group, due to things like FEAR, and also due to the sheer damage they output. In stealth they receive weapon damage bonuses, and in clouding swarm they are considered to be in stealth. This makes their steel tornado much stronger than a stamina DK's.
not disagreeing here - the dmg innitiated by a NB is hihger than that of a DK but in smaller groups straight dmg is not everything. just watch the recent vids from yuke, fluffy and etaniel if they would have played NB´s instead of DKs those vids would have been impossible simply becasue of the way NBs are to be played. at some point the 3rd char - the groups healer - will be the only visibale target and thus melt like ice in the sun focused by everyone arround simply because of beeing the only target available (seen way to often on my healing sorc/temp when running with my guild nightblades), wich is in return the end of the NBs as they have no way to handle multiple range attackers if not massivly healed by someone else - so they play with coping out in mind from the beginning and thats where i started off do you want to cop out NBs are great and awesome do you want to bring the fight to an end outside of ganking situations where you are simply overwhelming your opponent in a short amount of time nbs are losing ground to dks.
mana dks are currently in a misirable state solo as their class heal is gutted, their singel target dmg vs enemys paying attention is not great but once you add a healer they start to excell as their aedmg is great their cc and area denial are unmatched wich are necessary if not essential in micro groups
Sorry, but how exactly is a stamina DK inherently any tankier than a stamina NB? Nightblades can wear heavy armor and 1h/shield too.
beside whats allready mentioned - don´t forget your flaps negating 20-80k dmg (including procs etc.) in a "crowdy" situation is a f.cking lot of tankiness increasement...
Flap flaps are not reliable and bug out all the time. About 25% of all projectiles I take actually go through my wings.
And even when they are reflected, it's extremely buggy : the sound effect tells me I got hit, the visual effect from meteor is applied on the ground beneath my feet, the projectiles flies aways but my health takes a hit etc3 -
frozywozy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !
I agree. But I think another issue Jules has been heavily campaigning on is the overcast subject to all this, and it is that Magicka cannot keep up with Stamina. In terms of damage and of defensive options via CP.
When we establish a fine, constructive line between the two that have healthy countermeasures, I think then, we should analyse all classes.Moglijuana wrote: »Daily Bump. Glad I got to hear someone backing up the DK on the @Sypher PVP stream. Magicka DK is STILL and probably always will be my favorite class. #Jules4prez
Appreciate these and appreciate the bump @Etaniel and @Moglijuana
I really enjoy your vids Etaniel, I think you're a great player. I also appreciate the dk love you bring to the class. But just knowing your build and your stats makes me sad tbh, when I know much higher stats are achievable on other classes. And even higher if you weigh magicka vs stamina. And it's nothing you yourself are doing wrong by any means, just the class doesn't lend itself well to min maxing anymore. As @Ghostbane pointed out, magicka just flat out cannot keep up with stamina in this patch. And admittedly, hasn't been able to since 1.6. Anything I can achieve on a magicka dk, I can do better on a magicka sorc. Anything I can achieve on a stamina dk, I can do better on a stamina NB. Across the board- damage, regen, utility, survivability--- it's just so disheartening.
DK's really need to be looked at from the ground up. Someone REALLY needs to compare them to other classes in PVP and see how they stack up. I've attempted to do it here, but I mean someone from ZOS' side. Someone with the power to change things. For instance, why does a predominantly melee class have no stamina regen passive? Why does a melee class have no gap closer to get into melee range? It's just absolutely bonkers to me how these things aren't considered.
All too often, important matters such as these end up buried on the forums and never to be looked at again. It happened with AOE caps, it will happen with magicka dk. So many Magicka dks I know have just rerolled and accepted it at this point. Even I barely get on my DK and that's awful, but true. Eventually we will see a Cyrodiil that is nothing but 3 classes, all stamina. And Templar healers spamming BOL.
With no love for dk in upcoming orsinium- we're looking at early 2016 as the absolute earliest. I'll keep talking about it and yelling as loud as I can, to as many people as I can about this issue. But even I have to admit that when your cries fall on dead ears for months on end, what are you really supposed to do?
Regardless thanks for the kind words guys.
but your small class comparison is significantly biased in any group that actually wants to fight and not cop out the moment they face resistance a stamina DK is tons more worthy a slot than a stamina NB. while i do agree that nbs excell at "ganking" situations. comparable is the situation for your magica comparison.
another point regarding mana dks are dots - wich make them insanly powerfull in PVE is their bane in PVP as dots are totally useless in PVP as temps and nbs have instant cleanses on either highly used or extreamly cheap abilities and sorcs, even though dk-dots tick on shields their value compared with the shield size renders them totally bonkers(wich doesent matter much as a mana sorc will not kill a mana dk either:P). my personal solution for this point would be a general change in dot behaviour regardless of its source in PVP - to be only cleansable by the alliance cleanse and restrict that cleanse to affect only the user and the 3 direct groupmembers he is grouped with (no more battlegroup wide cleanses beside the templer synergy...)
In regards to stamina dk vs stamina NB, I have to say I completely disagree. Stamina NB is worlds stronger in any size group, due to things like FEAR, and also due to the sheer damage they output. In stealth they receive weapon damage bonuses, and in clouding swarm they are considered to be in stealth. This makes their steel tornado much stronger than a stamina DK's.
not disagreeing here - the dmg innitiated by a NB is hihger than that of a DK but in smaller groups straight dmg is not everything. just watch the recent vids from yuke, fluffy and etaniel if they would have played NB´s instead of DKs those vids would have been impossible simply becasue of the way NBs are to be played. at some point the 3rd char - the groups healer - will be the only visibale target and thus melt like ice in the sun focused by everyone arround simply because of beeing the only target available (seen way to often on my healing sorc/temp when running with my guild nightblades), wich is in return the end of the NBs as they have no way to handle multiple range attackers if not massivly healed by someone else - so they play with coping out in mind from the beginning and thats where i started off do you want to cop out NBs are great and awesome do you want to bring the fight to an end outside of ganking situations where you are simply overwhelming your opponent in a short amount of time nbs are losing ground to dks.
mana dks are currently in a misirable state solo as their class heal is gutted, their singel target dmg vs enemys paying attention is not great but once you add a healer they start to excell as their aedmg is great their cc and area denial are unmatched wich are necessary if not essential in micro groups
Sorry, but how exactly is a stamina DK inherently any tankier than a stamina NB? Nightblades can wear heavy armor and 1h/shield too.
beside whats allready mentioned - don´t forget your flaps negating 20-80k dmg (including procs etc.) in a "crowdy" situation is a f.cking lot of tankiness increasement...Like I said this morning on King's stream while he was experimenting a stamblade on the PTS during the maintenance, the key to stamblade is to slot ambush, surprise attack, fear and cloak, then you buy a cat and you make him walk over your keyboard to see the APs flows. All those comparisons with numbers don't matter. Nightblades have the best AOE disable in the game, the best gap closer in the game and the best survivability skill in the game. nuff said
well, ambush is preferred by NBs because it has no weapon prequisite - thx to its mechanic you cant weave anything into it compared to e.g crit rush wich i would prefer if i would not be addicted to DW on my NB.
and the best aoe disable actually is tangling webs as its not restricted to 3 targets :P
so the best gapcloser is from my pov is crit rush, hihger dmg than ambush itself (outside of the initial gap closing), with the ability to weave a heavy& WB into it significant more dmg in a shorter timeframe. and the best aoe disable is actually a skill available by everybody.
regarding the best survival skill i whole heartly do agree. (they should have never touched stealth detect pots)
You must be kidding me. Damage is not what it matters EVERYTIME. First, Ambush lets you goes above or bellow you. This is a critical and major advantage in any situation in Cyrodiil unless you are reffering to sewers fight? I could care less about that. Second, Ambush immobilize your target and it makes you land BEHIND your target which is another huge advantage because reasons. The damage of Critical Rush is nothing compared to such bonuses.
About fear, who care if it affects only 3 targets ? The cc break from fear is absolutely broken and it's been like that for more than I can remember. They haven't fixed it and I doubt they will fix it anytime soon. The cc breaking process takes way too much times and in rare occasions it is unbreakable at all because reasons. There are already tons of threads about it in these forums so I won't go over it. Plus, it applies a snare that requires cleanse in almost every situation.
I don't even know why I need to justify any longer.. lolEdited by frozywozy on November 2, 2015 2:19PMFrozn - Stamdk - AR50
Frosted - Magplar - AR50
Frodn - Magden - AR50
Warmed - Magblade - AR50
Mmfrozy - Magsorc - AR44
Necrozn - Magcro - AR32
Twitch.TV/FrozyTV
PvP Group Builds
“Small minds discuss people, average minds discuss events, and great minds discuss ideas.” -Eleanor Roosevelt- Fix Volendrung (spawn location - weapon white on the map causing the wielder to keep it forever - usable with emperorship)
- Remove / Change CPs System, remove current CP/noCP campaigns and introduce one 30days with lock, one with no locks
- Fix crashes when approaching a keep under attack because of bad / wrong rendering prioritization system
- Change emperorship to value faction score points and not alliance points - see this and this
- Fix long loading screens (mostly caused by players joining group out of rendering range)
- Add 2 more quickslots to the wheel or add a different wheel for sieges weaponry only
- Fix Balista Bolts not dealing damage on walls or doors if deployed at a certain place
- Release bigger battlegrounds with 8 to 16 players per team and only two teams
- Fix the permanent block animation - see examples : link1 link2 link3 link4 link5
- Gives players 10 minutes to get back into Cyrodiil after relogging / crashing
- Add a function to ignore the Claiming system of useless rewards
- Improve the Mailing System / Rewards of the Worthy stacking
- Assign specific group sizes to specific campaigns (24-16-8)
- Make forward camps impossible to place near objectives
- Make snares only available from ground effects abilities
- Change emperorship to last minimum 24hours
- Fix body sliding after cc breaking too quickly
- Remove Block Casting through Battle Spirit
- Fix the speed drop while jumping - see video
- Fix loading screens when keeps upgrade
- Fix Rams going crazy (spinning around)
- Bring back dynamic ulti regeneration
- Fix speed bug (abilities locked)
- Introduce dynamic population
- Lower population cap by 20%
- Add Snare Immunity potions
- Bring resurrection sickness
- Fix character desync
- Fix cc breaking bug
- Fix gap closer bug
- Fix health desync
- Fix combat bug
- Fix streak bug
- Fix server lag
0 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !
I agree. But I think another issue Jules has been heavily campaigning on is the overcast subject to all this, and it is that Magicka cannot keep up with Stamina. In terms of damage and of defensive options via CP.
When we establish a fine, constructive line between the two that have healthy countermeasures, I think then, we should analyse all classes.Moglijuana wrote: »Daily Bump. Glad I got to hear someone backing up the DK on the @Sypher PVP stream. Magicka DK is STILL and probably always will be my favorite class. #Jules4prez
Appreciate these and appreciate the bump @Etaniel and @Moglijuana
I really enjoy your vids Etaniel, I think you're a great player. I also appreciate the dk love you bring to the class. But just knowing your build and your stats makes me sad tbh, when I know much higher stats are achievable on other classes. And even higher if you weigh magicka vs stamina. And it's nothing you yourself are doing wrong by any means, just the class doesn't lend itself well to min maxing anymore. As @Ghostbane pointed out, magicka just flat out cannot keep up with stamina in this patch. And admittedly, hasn't been able to since 1.6. Anything I can achieve on a magicka dk, I can do better on a magicka sorc. Anything I can achieve on a stamina dk, I can do better on a stamina NB. Across the board- damage, regen, utility, survivability--- it's just so disheartening.
DK's really need to be looked at from the ground up. Someone REALLY needs to compare them to other classes in PVP and see how they stack up. I've attempted to do it here, but I mean someone from ZOS' side. Someone with the power to change things. For instance, why does a predominantly melee class have no stamina regen passive? Why does a melee class have no gap closer to get into melee range? It's just absolutely bonkers to me how these things aren't considered.
All too often, important matters such as these end up buried on the forums and never to be looked at again. It happened with AOE caps, it will happen with magicka dk. So many Magicka dks I know have just rerolled and accepted it at this point. Even I barely get on my DK and that's awful, but true. Eventually we will see a Cyrodiil that is nothing but 3 classes, all stamina. And Templar healers spamming BOL.
With no love for dk in upcoming orsinium- we're looking at early 2016 as the absolute earliest. I'll keep talking about it and yelling as loud as I can, to as many people as I can about this issue. But even I have to admit that when your cries fall on dead ears for months on end, what are you really supposed to do?
Regardless thanks for the kind words guys.
but your small class comparison is significantly biased in any group that actually wants to fight and not cop out the moment they face resistance a stamina DK is tons more worthy a slot than a stamina NB. while i do agree that nbs excell at "ganking" situations. comparable is the situation for your magica comparison.
another point regarding mana dks are dots - wich make them insanly powerfull in PVE is their bane in PVP as dots are totally useless in PVP as temps and nbs have instant cleanses on either highly used or extreamly cheap abilities and sorcs, even though dk-dots tick on shields their value compared with the shield size renders them totally bonkers(wich doesent matter much as a mana sorc will not kill a mana dk either:P). my personal solution for this point would be a general change in dot behaviour regardless of its source in PVP - to be only cleansable by the alliance cleanse and restrict that cleanse to affect only the user and the 3 direct groupmembers he is grouped with (no more battlegroup wide cleanses beside the templer synergy...)
In regards to stamina dk vs stamina NB, I have to say I completely disagree. Stamina NB is worlds stronger in any size group, due to things like FEAR, and also due to the sheer damage they output. In stealth they receive weapon damage bonuses, and in clouding swarm they are considered to be in stealth. This makes their steel tornado much stronger than a stamina DK's.
not disagreeing here - the dmg innitiated by a NB is hihger than that of a DK but in smaller groups straight dmg is not everything. just watch the recent vids from yuke, fluffy and etaniel if they would have played NB´s instead of DKs those vids would have been impossible simply becasue of the way NBs are to be played. at some point the 3rd char - the groups healer - will be the only visibale target and thus melt like ice in the sun focused by everyone arround simply because of beeing the only target available (seen way to often on my healing sorc/temp when running with my guild nightblades), wich is in return the end of the NBs as they have no way to handle multiple range attackers if not massivly healed by someone else - so they play with coping out in mind from the beginning and thats where i started off do you want to cop out NBs are great and awesome do you want to bring the fight to an end outside of ganking situations where you are simply overwhelming your opponent in a short amount of time nbs are losing ground to dks.
mana dks are currently in a misirable state solo as their class heal is gutted, their singel target dmg vs enemys paying attention is not great but once you add a healer they start to excell as their aedmg is great their cc and area denial are unmatched wich are necessary if not essential in micro groups
Sorry, but how exactly is a stamina DK inherently any tankier than a stamina NB? Nightblades can wear heavy armor and 1h/shield too.
beside whats allready mentioned - don´t forget your flaps negating 20-80k dmg (including procs etc.) in a "crowdy" situation is a f.cking lot of tankiness increasement...
Flap flaps are not reliable and bug out all the time. About 25% of all projectiles I take actually go through my wings.
And even when they are reflected, it's extremely buggy : the sound effect tells me I got hit, the visual effect from meteor is applied on the ground beneath my feet, the projectiles flies aways but my health takes a hit etc
and?
its still 4 projectiles doing atleast 5k each up to 10-15k+upto 10k procs attachted to them beeing reflected that all other classes have to handle and Dks dont.
its like Nbs saying because stealth is not 100% reliable all the time that skill is garbage...
the strange meteor behaviour is actually the double reflect of a meteor from my observations fighting them the last few days on my shield temp.Edited by Tankqull on November 2, 2015 2:22PMspelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"0 -
Wollust✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !
I agree. But I think another issue Jules has been heavily campaigning on is the overcast subject to all this, and it is that Magicka cannot keep up with Stamina. In terms of damage and of defensive options via CP.
When we establish a fine, constructive line between the two that have healthy countermeasures, I think then, we should analyse all classes.Moglijuana wrote: »Daily Bump. Glad I got to hear someone backing up the DK on the @Sypher PVP stream. Magicka DK is STILL and probably always will be my favorite class. #Jules4prez
Appreciate these and appreciate the bump @Etaniel and @Moglijuana
I really enjoy your vids Etaniel, I think you're a great player. I also appreciate the dk love you bring to the class. But just knowing your build and your stats makes me sad tbh, when I know much higher stats are achievable on other classes. And even higher if you weigh magicka vs stamina. And it's nothing you yourself are doing wrong by any means, just the class doesn't lend itself well to min maxing anymore. As @Ghostbane pointed out, magicka just flat out cannot keep up with stamina in this patch. And admittedly, hasn't been able to since 1.6. Anything I can achieve on a magicka dk, I can do better on a magicka sorc. Anything I can achieve on a stamina dk, I can do better on a stamina NB. Across the board- damage, regen, utility, survivability--- it's just so disheartening.
DK's really need to be looked at from the ground up. Someone REALLY needs to compare them to other classes in PVP and see how they stack up. I've attempted to do it here, but I mean someone from ZOS' side. Someone with the power to change things. For instance, why does a predominantly melee class have no stamina regen passive? Why does a melee class have no gap closer to get into melee range? It's just absolutely bonkers to me how these things aren't considered.
All too often, important matters such as these end up buried on the forums and never to be looked at again. It happened with AOE caps, it will happen with magicka dk. So many Magicka dks I know have just rerolled and accepted it at this point. Even I barely get on my DK and that's awful, but true. Eventually we will see a Cyrodiil that is nothing but 3 classes, all stamina. And Templar healers spamming BOL.
With no love for dk in upcoming orsinium- we're looking at early 2016 as the absolute earliest. I'll keep talking about it and yelling as loud as I can, to as many people as I can about this issue. But even I have to admit that when your cries fall on dead ears for months on end, what are you really supposed to do?
Regardless thanks for the kind words guys.
but your small class comparison is significantly biased in any group that actually wants to fight and not cop out the moment they face resistance a stamina DK is tons more worthy a slot than a stamina NB. while i do agree that nbs excell at "ganking" situations. comparable is the situation for your magica comparison.
another point regarding mana dks are dots - wich make them insanly powerfull in PVE is their bane in PVP as dots are totally useless in PVP as temps and nbs have instant cleanses on either highly used or extreamly cheap abilities and sorcs, even though dk-dots tick on shields their value compared with the shield size renders them totally bonkers(wich doesent matter much as a mana sorc will not kill a mana dk either:P). my personal solution for this point would be a general change in dot behaviour regardless of its source in PVP - to be only cleansable by the alliance cleanse and restrict that cleanse to affect only the user and the 3 direct groupmembers he is grouped with (no more battlegroup wide cleanses beside the templer synergy...)
In regards to stamina dk vs stamina NB, I have to say I completely disagree. Stamina NB is worlds stronger in any size group, due to things like FEAR, and also due to the sheer damage they output. In stealth they receive weapon damage bonuses, and in clouding swarm they are considered to be in stealth. This makes their steel tornado much stronger than a stamina DK's.
not disagreeing here - the dmg innitiated by a NB is hihger than that of a DK but in smaller groups straight dmg is not everything. just watch the recent vids from yuke, fluffy and etaniel if they would have played NB´s instead of DKs those vids would have been impossible simply becasue of the way NBs are to be played. at some point the 3rd char - the groups healer - will be the only visibale target and thus melt like ice in the sun focused by everyone arround simply because of beeing the only target available (seen way to often on my healing sorc/temp when running with my guild nightblades), wich is in return the end of the NBs as they have no way to handle multiple range attackers if not massivly healed by someone else - so they play with coping out in mind from the beginning and thats where i started off do you want to cop out NBs are great and awesome do you want to bring the fight to an end outside of ganking situations where you are simply overwhelming your opponent in a short amount of time nbs are losing ground to dks.
mana dks are currently in a misirable state solo as their class heal is gutted, their singel target dmg vs enemys paying attention is not great but once you add a healer they start to excell as their aedmg is great their cc and area denial are unmatched wich are necessary if not essential in micro groups
Sorry, but how exactly is a stamina DK inherently any tankier than a stamina NB? Nightblades can wear heavy armor and 1h/shield too.
beside whats allready mentioned - don´t forget your flaps negating 20-80k dmg (including procs etc.) in a "crowdy" situation is a f.cking lot of tankiness increasement...
Flap flaps are not reliable and bug out all the time. About 25% of all projectiles I take actually go through my wings.
And even when they are reflected, it's extremely buggy : the sound effect tells me I got hit, the visual effect from meteor is applied on the ground beneath my feet, the projectiles flies aways but my health takes a hit etc
and?
its still 4 projectiles doing atleast 5k each up to 10-15k+upto 10k procs attachted to them beeing reflected that all other classes have to handle and Dks dont.
its like Nbs saying because stealth is not 100% reliable all the time that skill is garbage...
the strange meteor behaviour is actually the double reflect of a meteor from my observations fighting them the last few days on my shield temp.
You do realize there is a difference in cloak not working because it gets broken by aoe, and the wings not working because they are buggy as hell?Susano'o
Zerg Squad4 -
Etaniel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !
I agree. But I think another issue Jules has been heavily campaigning on is the overcast subject to all this, and it is that Magicka cannot keep up with Stamina. In terms of damage and of defensive options via CP.
When we establish a fine, constructive line between the two that have healthy countermeasures, I think then, we should analyse all classes.Moglijuana wrote: »Daily Bump. Glad I got to hear someone backing up the DK on the @Sypher PVP stream. Magicka DK is STILL and probably always will be my favorite class. #Jules4prez
Appreciate these and appreciate the bump @Etaniel and @Moglijuana
I really enjoy your vids Etaniel, I think you're a great player. I also appreciate the dk love you bring to the class. But just knowing your build and your stats makes me sad tbh, when I know much higher stats are achievable on other classes. And even higher if you weigh magicka vs stamina. And it's nothing you yourself are doing wrong by any means, just the class doesn't lend itself well to min maxing anymore. As @Ghostbane pointed out, magicka just flat out cannot keep up with stamina in this patch. And admittedly, hasn't been able to since 1.6. Anything I can achieve on a magicka dk, I can do better on a magicka sorc. Anything I can achieve on a stamina dk, I can do better on a stamina NB. Across the board- damage, regen, utility, survivability--- it's just so disheartening.
DK's really need to be looked at from the ground up. Someone REALLY needs to compare them to other classes in PVP and see how they stack up. I've attempted to do it here, but I mean someone from ZOS' side. Someone with the power to change things. For instance, why does a predominantly melee class have no stamina regen passive? Why does a melee class have no gap closer to get into melee range? It's just absolutely bonkers to me how these things aren't considered.
All too often, important matters such as these end up buried on the forums and never to be looked at again. It happened with AOE caps, it will happen with magicka dk. So many Magicka dks I know have just rerolled and accepted it at this point. Even I barely get on my DK and that's awful, but true. Eventually we will see a Cyrodiil that is nothing but 3 classes, all stamina. And Templar healers spamming BOL.
With no love for dk in upcoming orsinium- we're looking at early 2016 as the absolute earliest. I'll keep talking about it and yelling as loud as I can, to as many people as I can about this issue. But even I have to admit that when your cries fall on dead ears for months on end, what are you really supposed to do?
Regardless thanks for the kind words guys.
but your small class comparison is significantly biased in any group that actually wants to fight and not cop out the moment they face resistance a stamina DK is tons more worthy a slot than a stamina NB. while i do agree that nbs excell at "ganking" situations. comparable is the situation for your magica comparison.
another point regarding mana dks are dots - wich make them insanly powerfull in PVE is their bane in PVP as dots are totally useless in PVP as temps and nbs have instant cleanses on either highly used or extreamly cheap abilities and sorcs, even though dk-dots tick on shields their value compared with the shield size renders them totally bonkers(wich doesent matter much as a mana sorc will not kill a mana dk either:P). my personal solution for this point would be a general change in dot behaviour regardless of its source in PVP - to be only cleansable by the alliance cleanse and restrict that cleanse to affect only the user and the 3 direct groupmembers he is grouped with (no more battlegroup wide cleanses beside the templer synergy...)
In regards to stamina dk vs stamina NB, I have to say I completely disagree. Stamina NB is worlds stronger in any size group, due to things like FEAR, and also due to the sheer damage they output. In stealth they receive weapon damage bonuses, and in clouding swarm they are considered to be in stealth. This makes their steel tornado much stronger than a stamina DK's.
not disagreeing here - the dmg innitiated by a NB is hihger than that of a DK but in smaller groups straight dmg is not everything. just watch the recent vids from yuke, fluffy and etaniel if they would have played NB´s instead of DKs those vids would have been impossible simply becasue of the way NBs are to be played. at some point the 3rd char - the groups healer - will be the only visibale target and thus melt like ice in the sun focused by everyone arround simply because of beeing the only target available (seen way to often on my healing sorc/temp when running with my guild nightblades), wich is in return the end of the NBs as they have no way to handle multiple range attackers if not massivly healed by someone else - so they play with coping out in mind from the beginning and thats where i started off do you want to cop out NBs are great and awesome do you want to bring the fight to an end outside of ganking situations where you are simply overwhelming your opponent in a short amount of time nbs are losing ground to dks.
mana dks are currently in a misirable state solo as their class heal is gutted, their singel target dmg vs enemys paying attention is not great but once you add a healer they start to excell as their aedmg is great their cc and area denial are unmatched wich are necessary if not essential in micro groups
Sorry, but how exactly is a stamina DK inherently any tankier than a stamina NB? Nightblades can wear heavy armor and 1h/shield too.
beside whats allready mentioned - don´t forget your flaps negating 20-80k dmg (including procs etc.) in a "crowdy" situation is a f.cking lot of tankiness increasement...
Flap flaps are not reliable and bug out all the time. About 25% of all projectiles I take actually go through my wings.
And even when they are reflected, it's extremely buggy : the sound effect tells me I got hit, the visual effect from meteor is applied on the ground beneath my feet, the projectiles flies aways but my health takes a hit etc
and?
its still 4 projectiles doing atleast 5k each up to 10-15k+upto 10k procs attachted to them beeing reflected that all other classes have to handle and Dks dont.
its like Nbs saying because stealth is not 100% reliable all the time that skill is garbage...
Yeah all our reflected projectiles deal tons of damage, which is why noone actually bothers to stop casting projectiles when you have your wings up. Makes sense.
And yeah you're right, it's such a big advantage to have a broken skill. I mean nightblades couldn't possibly cloak to evade the projectiles, and templar surely can't purge the projectile before it hits...
And no, it's not an issue of double reflecting. It's an issue of look : i have a meteor coming for me, circle at my feet, I cast wings (I'm not eclipsed because I have immunity) and booooom I take it to the face, sometimes with animation, sometimes without3 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !
I agree. But I think another issue Jules has been heavily campaigning on is the overcast subject to all this, and it is that Magicka cannot keep up with Stamina. In terms of damage and of defensive options via CP.
When we establish a fine, constructive line between the two that have healthy countermeasures, I think then, we should analyse all classes.Moglijuana wrote: »Daily Bump. Glad I got to hear someone backing up the DK on the @Sypher PVP stream. Magicka DK is STILL and probably always will be my favorite class. #Jules4prez
Appreciate these and appreciate the bump @Etaniel and @Moglijuana
I really enjoy your vids Etaniel, I think you're a great player. I also appreciate the dk love you bring to the class. But just knowing your build and your stats makes me sad tbh, when I know much higher stats are achievable on other classes. And even higher if you weigh magicka vs stamina. And it's nothing you yourself are doing wrong by any means, just the class doesn't lend itself well to min maxing anymore. As @Ghostbane pointed out, magicka just flat out cannot keep up with stamina in this patch. And admittedly, hasn't been able to since 1.6. Anything I can achieve on a magicka dk, I can do better on a magicka sorc. Anything I can achieve on a stamina dk, I can do better on a stamina NB. Across the board- damage, regen, utility, survivability--- it's just so disheartening.
DK's really need to be looked at from the ground up. Someone REALLY needs to compare them to other classes in PVP and see how they stack up. I've attempted to do it here, but I mean someone from ZOS' side. Someone with the power to change things. For instance, why does a predominantly melee class have no stamina regen passive? Why does a melee class have no gap closer to get into melee range? It's just absolutely bonkers to me how these things aren't considered.
All too often, important matters such as these end up buried on the forums and never to be looked at again. It happened with AOE caps, it will happen with magicka dk. So many Magicka dks I know have just rerolled and accepted it at this point. Even I barely get on my DK and that's awful, but true. Eventually we will see a Cyrodiil that is nothing but 3 classes, all stamina. And Templar healers spamming BOL.
With no love for dk in upcoming orsinium- we're looking at early 2016 as the absolute earliest. I'll keep talking about it and yelling as loud as I can, to as many people as I can about this issue. But even I have to admit that when your cries fall on dead ears for months on end, what are you really supposed to do?
Regardless thanks for the kind words guys.
but your small class comparison is significantly biased in any group that actually wants to fight and not cop out the moment they face resistance a stamina DK is tons more worthy a slot than a stamina NB. while i do agree that nbs excell at "ganking" situations. comparable is the situation for your magica comparison.
another point regarding mana dks are dots - wich make them insanly powerfull in PVE is their bane in PVP as dots are totally useless in PVP as temps and nbs have instant cleanses on either highly used or extreamly cheap abilities and sorcs, even though dk-dots tick on shields their value compared with the shield size renders them totally bonkers(wich doesent matter much as a mana sorc will not kill a mana dk either:P). my personal solution for this point would be a general change in dot behaviour regardless of its source in PVP - to be only cleansable by the alliance cleanse and restrict that cleanse to affect only the user and the 3 direct groupmembers he is grouped with (no more battlegroup wide cleanses beside the templer synergy...)
In regards to stamina dk vs stamina NB, I have to say I completely disagree. Stamina NB is worlds stronger in any size group, due to things like FEAR, and also due to the sheer damage they output. In stealth they receive weapon damage bonuses, and in clouding swarm they are considered to be in stealth. This makes their steel tornado much stronger than a stamina DK's.
not disagreeing here - the dmg innitiated by a NB is hihger than that of a DK but in smaller groups straight dmg is not everything. just watch the recent vids from yuke, fluffy and etaniel if they would have played NB´s instead of DKs those vids would have been impossible simply becasue of the way NBs are to be played. at some point the 3rd char - the groups healer - will be the only visibale target and thus melt like ice in the sun focused by everyone arround simply because of beeing the only target available (seen way to often on my healing sorc/temp when running with my guild nightblades), wich is in return the end of the NBs as they have no way to handle multiple range attackers if not massivly healed by someone else - so they play with coping out in mind from the beginning and thats where i started off do you want to cop out NBs are great and awesome do you want to bring the fight to an end outside of ganking situations where you are simply overwhelming your opponent in a short amount of time nbs are losing ground to dks.
mana dks are currently in a misirable state solo as their class heal is gutted, their singel target dmg vs enemys paying attention is not great but once you add a healer they start to excell as their aedmg is great their cc and area denial are unmatched wich are necessary if not essential in micro groups
Sorry, but how exactly is a stamina DK inherently any tankier than a stamina NB? Nightblades can wear heavy armor and 1h/shield too.
beside whats allready mentioned - don´t forget your flaps negating 20-80k dmg (including procs etc.) in a "crowdy" situation is a f.cking lot of tankiness increasement...
Flap flaps are not reliable and bug out all the time. About 25% of all projectiles I take actually go through my wings.
And even when they are reflected, it's extremely buggy : the sound effect tells me I got hit, the visual effect from meteor is applied on the ground beneath my feet, the projectiles flies aways but my health takes a hit etc
and?
its still 4 projectiles doing atleast 5k each up to 10-15k+upto 10k procs attachted to them beeing reflected that all other classes have to handle and Dks dont.
its like Nbs saying because stealth is not 100% reliable all the time that skill is garbage...
Yeah all our reflected projectiles deal tons of damage, which is why noone actually bothers to stop casting projectiles when you have your wings up. Makes sense.
And yeah you're right, it's such a big advantage to have a broken skill. I mean nightblades couldn't possibly cloak to evade the projectiles, and templar surely can't purge the projectile before it hits...
And no, it's not an issue of double reflecting. It's an issue of look : i have a meteor coming for me, circle at my feet, I cast wings (I'm not eclipsed because I have immunity) and booooom I take it to the face, sometimes with animation, sometimes without
sorry but projectiles do around 5-20k including additional procs like camouflaged hunter, weapon procs etc wich are not applied to you if the projectile is reflected. scales allways reflect 4 projectiles in 4 seconds it might not be the first 4 arriving you but it is getting rid of 4 projectiles aimed at you with only one "GCD" and up to 16 spamming it compared to permanently spamming cleanse on the templar side for 4 projectiles... and beside that i would like to hear derra if you guys constantly vanish to avoid projectiles leaving him as the only visible target all the time
regarding eclipse i´m only using it to troll talon spamming dks :P as it is completly unreliable thx to cc immunities. and as i have defensive stance i´m able to reflect meteors back to the reflecting dk wich leads 100% of the time to the graphical issues you were discribing beforhand. where the animation can´t handle what is actually happening.spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"1 -
Etaniel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !Bumping this, don't want to see Jule's hard work lost in the dead threads !
I agree. But I think another issue Jules has been heavily campaigning on is the overcast subject to all this, and it is that Magicka cannot keep up with Stamina. In terms of damage and of defensive options via CP.
When we establish a fine, constructive line between the two that have healthy countermeasures, I think then, we should analyse all classes.Moglijuana wrote: »Daily Bump. Glad I got to hear someone backing up the DK on the @Sypher PVP stream. Magicka DK is STILL and probably always will be my favorite class. #Jules4prez
Appreciate these and appreciate the bump @Etaniel and @Moglijuana
I really enjoy your vids Etaniel, I think you're a great player. I also appreciate the dk love you bring to the class. But just knowing your build and your stats makes me sad tbh, when I know much higher stats are achievable on other classes. And even higher if you weigh magicka vs stamina. And it's nothing you yourself are doing wrong by any means, just the class doesn't lend itself well to min maxing anymore. As @Ghostbane pointed out, magicka just flat out cannot keep up with stamina in this patch. And admittedly, hasn't been able to since 1.6. Anything I can achieve on a magicka dk, I can do better on a magicka sorc. Anything I can achieve on a stamina dk, I can do better on a stamina NB. Across the board- damage, regen, utility, survivability--- it's just so disheartening.
DK's really need to be looked at from the ground up. Someone REALLY needs to compare them to other classes in PVP and see how they stack up. I've attempted to do it here, but I mean someone from ZOS' side. Someone with the power to change things. For instance, why does a predominantly melee class have no stamina regen passive? Why does a melee class have no gap closer to get into melee range? It's just absolutely bonkers to me how these things aren't considered.
All too often, important matters such as these end up buried on the forums and never to be looked at again. It happened with AOE caps, it will happen with magicka dk. So many Magicka dks I know have just rerolled and accepted it at this point. Even I barely get on my DK and that's awful, but true. Eventually we will see a Cyrodiil that is nothing but 3 classes, all stamina. And Templar healers spamming BOL.
With no love for dk in upcoming orsinium- we're looking at early 2016 as the absolute earliest. I'll keep talking about it and yelling as loud as I can, to as many people as I can about this issue. But even I have to admit that when your cries fall on dead ears for months on end, what are you really supposed to do?
Regardless thanks for the kind words guys.
but your small class comparison is significantly biased in any group that actually wants to fight and not cop out the moment they face resistance a stamina DK is tons more worthy a slot than a stamina NB. while i do agree that nbs excell at "ganking" situations. comparable is the situation for your magica comparison.
another point regarding mana dks are dots - wich make them insanly powerfull in PVE is their bane in PVP as dots are totally useless in PVP as temps and nbs have instant cleanses on either highly used or extreamly cheap abilities and sorcs, even though dk-dots tick on shields their value compared with the shield size renders them totally bonkers(wich doesent matter much as a mana sorc will not kill a mana dk either:P). my personal solution for this point would be a general change in dot behaviour regardless of its source in PVP - to be only cleansable by the alliance cleanse and restrict that cleanse to affect only the user and the 3 direct groupmembers he is grouped with (no more battlegroup wide cleanses beside the templer synergy...)
In regards to stamina dk vs stamina NB, I have to say I completely disagree. Stamina NB is worlds stronger in any size group, due to things like FEAR, and also due to the sheer damage they output. In stealth they receive weapon damage bonuses, and in clouding swarm they are considered to be in stealth. This makes their steel tornado much stronger than a stamina DK's.
not disagreeing here - the dmg innitiated by a NB is hihger than that of a DK but in smaller groups straight dmg is not everything. just watch the recent vids from yuke, fluffy and etaniel if they would have played NB´s instead of DKs those vids would have been impossible simply becasue of the way NBs are to be played. at some point the 3rd char - the groups healer - will be the only visibale target and thus melt like ice in the sun focused by everyone arround simply because of beeing the only target available (seen way to often on my healing sorc/temp when running with my guild nightblades), wich is in return the end of the NBs as they have no way to handle multiple range attackers if not massivly healed by someone else - so they play with coping out in mind from the beginning and thats where i started off do you want to cop out NBs are great and awesome do you want to bring the fight to an end outside of ganking situations where you are simply overwhelming your opponent in a short amount of time nbs are losing ground to dks.
mana dks are currently in a misirable state solo as their class heal is gutted, their singel target dmg vs enemys paying attention is not great but once you add a healer they start to excell as their aedmg is great their cc and area denial are unmatched wich are necessary if not essential in micro groups
Sorry, but how exactly is a stamina DK inherently any tankier than a stamina NB? Nightblades can wear heavy armor and 1h/shield too.
beside whats allready mentioned - don´t forget your flaps negating 20-80k dmg (including procs etc.) in a "crowdy" situation is a f.cking lot of tankiness increasement...
Flap flaps are not reliable and bug out all the time. About 25% of all projectiles I take actually go through my wings.
And even when they are reflected, it's extremely buggy : the sound effect tells me I got hit, the visual effect from meteor is applied on the ground beneath my feet, the projectiles flies aways but my health takes a hit etc
and?
its still 4 projectiles doing atleast 5k each up to 10-15k+upto 10k procs attachted to them beeing reflected that all other classes have to handle and Dks dont.
its like Nbs saying because stealth is not 100% reliable all the time that skill is garbage...
Yeah all our reflected projectiles deal tons of damage, which is why noone actually bothers to stop casting projectiles when you have your wings up. Makes sense.
And yeah you're right, it's such a big advantage to have a broken skill. I mean nightblades couldn't possibly cloak to evade the projectiles, and templar surely can't purge the projectile before it hits...
And no, it's not an issue of double reflecting. It's an issue of look : i have a meteor coming for me, circle at my feet, I cast wings (I'm not eclipsed because I have immunity) and booooom I take it to the face, sometimes with animation, sometimes without
scales allways reflect 4 projectiles in 4 seconds it might not be the first 4 arriving you but it is getting rid of 4 projectiles aimed at you with only one "GCD" .
clearly they always reflect yes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SAT0rLNhwk
I could upload ten more but this one is enough don't you think?4