The Death of the Dragonknight- updated 3/15/16

Jules

Edgar_Baerland wrote: »

@Jules

beautiful post, well thought out. I don't play DK seriously but I can't stand how bad they declawed the class. I remember the DK OP OMG WTF days, and I'd prefer that to this. As much as I feel templars need SERIOUS help (there's basically one offensive build and the rest is just wet noodling people) after reading this and generally just never seeing DKs in PVP anymore I truly feel for dedicated DK players, and I wish they'd be returned to glory, so to speak. I loved the challenge of playing a good DK.

I'm a Templar main through and through, but I'd way rather play against strong, challenging classes than just see the mindless NB/SORC spammers we have now. (not hating on sorcs and NBs but they are FOTM and thus there's a lot of mindless spammers out there)

Sorry it took me so long to respond to this, I just only now saw it.

Thanks, I appreciate the kind words, especially from someone who mains another class. DK's are in such a sad state that I can't even think of more than 1 person who mains a magicka DK anymore, and that's @Etaniel. And he's not even on the same megaserver as me. However, Etaniel's ability to play magicka dk really has nothing to do with the class itself, and is more a testament to his strength as a player and his ability to overcome the weaknesses.

Literally every Magicka DK I know/knew has either transitioned to stam or is playing another class. (Aegon, Kodi, Sypher, Panda, Grom, WRX, Beastswine, DK Babee, Divine Force, Oniric, Reign Supreme, Ariana Kishi, AOE BBQ, Cent Satori, the list goes on and on...) Those who have tried Magicka DK again since IC have liked it for about a day and then reverted back to stam or another class. It's incredibly sad to be honest, as if an entire population just ceased to exist.

I truly hope that with the next patch coming ZOS thinks long and hard about these people and the hundreds if not thousands of others who have abandoned that once beloved spec. To me, magicka dk was the first character I pvp'd on and I would love to return to it. Increased dot times will not solve the slew of fundamental flaws with the class. From the ground up, weak passives (except earthen heart tree) need to be rethought, tankiness needs to be reworked back into the class and FFS give them a functional gap closer without auto cc immunity. No one is advocating for DK's to be as OP as they were initially; just to be on par with other classes.

Minno

Jules wrote: »

Edgar_Baerland wrote: »

@Jules

beautiful post, well thought out. I don't play DK seriously but I can't stand how bad they declawed the class. I remember the DK OP OMG WTF days, and I'd prefer that to this. As much as I feel templars need SERIOUS help (there's basically one offensive build and the rest is just wet noodling people) after reading this and generally just never seeing DKs in PVP anymore I truly feel for dedicated DK players, and I wish they'd be returned to glory, so to speak. I loved the challenge of playing a good DK.

I'm a Templar main through and through, but I'd way rather play against strong, challenging classes than just see the mindless NB/SORC spammers we have now. (not hating on sorcs and NBs but they are FOTM and thus there's a lot of mindless spammers out there)

Sorry it took me so long to respond to this, I just only now saw it.

Thanks, I appreciate the kind words, especially from someone who mains another class. DK's are in such a sad state that I can't even think of more than 1 person who mains a magicka DK anymore, and that's @Etaniel. And he's not even on the same megaserver as me. However, Etaniel's ability to play magicka dk really has nothing to do with the class itself, and is more a testament to his strength as a player and his ability to overcome the weaknesses.

Literally every Magicka DK I know/knew has either transitioned to stam or is playing another class. (Aegon, Kodi, Sypher, Panda, Grom, WRX, Beastswine, DK Babee, Divine Force, Oniric, Reign Supreme, Ariana Kishi, AOE BBQ, Cent Satori, the list goes on and on...) Those who have tried Magicka DK again since IC have liked it for about a day and then reverted back to stam or another class. It's incredibly sad to be honest, as if an entire population just ceased to exist.

I truly hope that with the next patch coming ZOS thinks long and hard about these people and the hundreds if not thousands of others who have abandoned that once beloved spec. To me, magicka dk was the first character I pvp'd on and I would love to return to it. Increased dot times will not solve the slew of fundamental flaws with the class. From the ground up, weak passives (except earthen heart tree) need to be rethought, tankiness needs to be reworked back into the class and FFS give them a functional gap closer without auto cc immunity. No one is advocating for DK's to be as OP as they were initially; just to be on par with other classes.

Till the secret magicka DK build that's floating around gets exposed lol.

But seriously, DK and templars were forgotten about in terms of passives or way their skills performed; a constant struggle with the validity of multi role builds (DPS/tank for DK and healer/tank for Templar).

Etaniel

Jules wrote: »

Thanks, I appreciate the kind words, especially from someone who mains another class. DK's are in such a sad state that I can't even think of more than 1 person who mains a magicka DK anymore, and that's @Etaniel. And he's not even on the same megaserver as me. However, Etaniel's ability to play magicka dk really has nothing to do with the class itself, and is more a testament to his strength as a player and his ability to overcome the weaknesses.

@Jules
I also have a nightblade on the side, so that I don't go completely insane

Takllin

Jules wrote: »

Edgar_Baerland wrote: »

@Jules

beautiful post, well thought out. I don't play DK seriously but I can't stand how bad they declawed the class. I remember the DK OP OMG WTF days, and I'd prefer that to this. As much as I feel templars need SERIOUS help (there's basically one offensive build and the rest is just wet noodling people) after reading this and generally just never seeing DKs in PVP anymore I truly feel for dedicated DK players, and I wish they'd be returned to glory, so to speak. I loved the challenge of playing a good DK.

I'm a Templar main through and through, but I'd way rather play against strong, challenging classes than just see the mindless NB/SORC spammers we have now. (not hating on sorcs and NBs but they are FOTM and thus there's a lot of mindless spammers out there)

Sorry it took me so long to respond to this, I just only now saw it.

Thanks, I appreciate the kind words, especially from someone who mains another class. DK's are in such a sad state that I can't even think of more than 1 person who mains a magicka DK anymore, and that's @Etaniel. And he's not even on the same megaserver as me. However, Etaniel's ability to play magicka dk really has nothing to do with the class itself, and is more a testament to his strength as a player and his ability to overcome the weaknesses.

Literally every Magicka DK I know/knew has either transitioned to stam or is playing another class. (Aegon, Kodi, Sypher, Panda, Grom, WRX, Beastswine, DK Babee, Divine Force, Oniric, Reign Supreme, Ariana Kishi, AOE BBQ, Cent Satori, the list goes on and on...) Those who have tried Magicka DK again since IC have liked it for about a day and then reverted back to stam or another class. It's incredibly sad to be honest, as if an entire population just ceased to exist.

I truly hope that with the next patch coming ZOS thinks long and hard about these people and the hundreds if not thousands of others who have abandoned that once beloved spec. To me, magicka dk was the first character I pvp'd on and I would love to return to it. Increased dot times will not solve the slew of fundamental flaws with the class. From the ground up, weak passives (except earthen heart tree) need to be rethought, tankiness needs to be reworked back into the class and FFS give them a functional gap closer without auto cc immunity. No one is advocating for DK's to be as OP as they were initially; just to be on par with other classes.

Having played mine a lot recently, talking/theorycrafting with others, and testing between my Bosmer Magicka NB and Dark Elf Magicka DK, it's asinine how much better NB is than DK.

With the same gear setup, 5 Light, 2 Heavy, 1h/Shield and Resto(5 Kags, 2 BS, 3 Willpower[1SD, 2 Regen glyphs], 2 Torugs), 100 CP into Ele on the DK, 100 CP into Thaum on the NB, my main DPS abilities look like this:

All damage is unbuffed. Mag Regen mundus.

Flame Lash
Cost - 1.8k
Damage 5.6k

Concealed Weapon
Cost - 1.8k
Damage - 7.5k

Deep Breath
Cost - 3k
Heal - 1.7k
Damage - 3.7k

Sap Essence
Cost - 2.4k
Heal - 1.5k + 20% per enemy hit
Damage - 4.5k

For their tankiness, honestly I don't think it's as big of an issue, except when you are facing lots of Physical damage incoming. Not much you can do about the WB spam no matter what class you are, and anyone worth their shirt will know how to get around the counters to it as well.

All in all, I'm rather hopeful next update, I think the CP changes will help us a lot, since there will be Physical mitigation and we aren't forced to spread out CP out so much, and I'd like to think there will be some kind of damage buff/mechanics change to our abilities.

themdogesbite

Skaffá still going strong though, im amazed he sticks at it. Same with Etaniel and Legendary Omar.

alduiin

Just add a little dot dmg buff Dragon Blood and do something about the block nerf

_Chaos

alduiin wrote: »

Just add a little dot dmg buff Dragon Blood and do something about the block nerf

DoT's? Really dude?

Glory

Goodness, it's been over 3-4 months since many declared magicka DK dead, and I still don't think ZOS has said anything concrete about the class.

I have tried to main my magicka DK for the past couple months since I like the challenge and hate FOTM (I had to quit my sorcerer back in 1.6 ) when the servers allow, but I just feel like I'm playing something subpar.

Throwback to this post in September! Must be coming any day now...:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for providing your feedback, and to @Jules for a well-written list of concerns and proposed solutions; we’ve passed this thread along to the Dev team to review. In general, we will be focusing on fixing outstanding ability bugs in the next major update, in addition to supporting some new systems. Larger balance and ability improvements for Dragonknights and the other classes are planned for early next year.

Teargrants

ebethke_ESO wrote: »

Goodness, it's been over 3-4 months since many declared magicka DK dead, and I still don't think ZOS has said anything concrete about the class.

Ahem

ZOS_eWrobel wrote:

DK - We're looking at making their dots stick to targets longer.

not concrete enough for you?

Wollust

Teargrants wrote: »

ebethke_ESO wrote: »

Goodness, it's been over 3-4 months since many declared magicka DK dead, and I still don't think ZOS has said anything concrete about the class.

Ahem

ZOS_eWrobel wrote:

DK - We're looking at making their dots stick to targets longer.

not concrete enough for you?

Just sit still while I dot you to death!!

BuggeX

Jules wrote: »

Edgar_Baerland wrote: »

@Jules

beautiful post, well thought out. I don't play DK seriously but I can't stand how bad they declawed the class. I remember the DK OP OMG WTF days, and I'd prefer that to this. As much as I feel templars need SERIOUS help (there's basically one offensive build and the rest is just wet noodling people) after reading this and generally just never seeing DKs in PVP anymore I truly feel for dedicated DK players, and I wish they'd be returned to glory, so to speak. I loved the challenge of playing a good DK.

I'm a Templar main through and through, but I'd way rather play against strong, challenging classes than just see the mindless NB/SORC spammers we have now. (not hating on sorcs and NBs but they are FOTM and thus there's a lot of mindless spammers out there)

Sorry it took me so long to respond to this, I just only now saw it.

Thanks, I appreciate the kind words, especially from someone who mains another class. DK's are in such a sad state that I can't even think of more than 1 person who mains a magicka DK anymore, and that's @Etaniel. And he's not even on the same megaserver as me. However, Etaniel's ability to play magicka dk really has nothing to do with the class itself, and is more a testament to his strength as a player and his ability to overcome the weaknesses.

Literally every Magicka DK I know/knew has either transitioned to stam or is playing another class. (Aegon, Kodi, Sypher, Panda, Grom, WRX, Beastswine, DK Babee, Divine Force, Oniric, Reign Supreme, Ariana Kishi, AOE BBQ, Cent Satori, the list goes on and on...) Those who have tried Magicka DK again since IC have liked it for about a day and then reverted back to stam or another class. It's incredibly sad to be honest, as if an entire population just ceased to exist.

I truly hope that with the next patch coming ZOS thinks long and hard about these people and the hundreds if not thousands of others who have abandoned that once beloved spec. To me, magicka dk was the first character I pvp'd on and I would love to return to it. Increased dot times will not solve the slew of fundamental flaws with the class. From the ground up, weak passives (except earthen heart tree) need to be rethought, tankiness needs to be reworked back into the class and FFS give them a functional gap closer without auto cc immunity. No one is advocating for DK's to be as OP as they were initially; just to be on par with other classes.

Takllin wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Edgar_Baerland wrote: »

@Jules

beautiful post, well thought out. I don't play DK seriously but I can't stand how bad they declawed the class. I remember the DK OP OMG WTF days, and I'd prefer that to this. As much as I feel templars need SERIOUS help (there's basically one offensive build and the rest is just wet noodling people) after reading this and generally just never seeing DKs in PVP anymore I truly feel for dedicated DK players, and I wish they'd be returned to glory, so to speak. I loved the challenge of playing a good DK.

I'm a Templar main through and through, but I'd way rather play against strong, challenging classes than just see the mindless NB/SORC spammers we have now. (not hating on sorcs and NBs but they are FOTM and thus there's a lot of mindless spammers out there)

Sorry it took me so long to respond to this, I just only now saw it.

Thanks, I appreciate the kind words, especially from someone who mains another class. DK's are in such a sad state that I can't even think of more than 1 person who mains a magicka DK anymore, and that's @Etaniel. And he's not even on the same megaserver as me. However, Etaniel's ability to play magicka dk really has nothing to do with the class itself, and is more a testament to his strength as a player and his ability to overcome the weaknesses.

Literally every Magicka DK I know/knew has either transitioned to stam or is playing another class. (Aegon, Kodi, Sypher, Panda, Grom, WRX, Beastswine, DK Babee, Divine Force, Oniric, Reign Supreme, Ariana Kishi, AOE BBQ, Cent Satori, the list goes on and on...) Those who have tried Magicka DK again since IC have liked it for about a day and then reverted back to stam or another class. It's incredibly sad to be honest, as if an entire population just ceased to exist.

I truly hope that with the next patch coming ZOS thinks long and hard about these people and the hundreds if not thousands of others who have abandoned that once beloved spec. To me, magicka dk was the first character I pvp'd on and I would love to return to it. Increased dot times will not solve the slew of fundamental flaws with the class. From the ground up, weak passives (except earthen heart tree) need to be rethought, tankiness needs to be reworked back into the class and FFS give them a functional gap closer without auto cc immunity. No one is advocating for DK's to be as OP as they were initially; just to be on par with other classes.

Having played mine a lot recently, talking/theorycrafting with others, and testing between my Bosmer Magicka NB and Dark Elf Magicka DK, it's asinine how much better NB is than DK.

With the same gear setup, 5 Light, 2 Heavy, 1h/Shield and Resto(5 Kags, 2 BS, 3 Willpower[1SD, 2 Regen glyphs], 2 Torugs), 100 CP into Ele on the DK, 100 CP into Thaum on the NB, my main DPS abilities look like this:

All damage is unbuffed. Mag Regen mundus.

Flame Lash
Cost - 1.8k
Damage 5.6k

Concealed Weapon
Cost - 1.8k
Damage - 7.5k

Deep Breath
Cost - 3k
Heal - 1.7k
Damage - 3.7k

Sap Essence
Cost - 2.4k
Heal - 1.5k + 20% per enemy hit
Damage - 4.5k

For their tankiness, honestly I don't think it's as big of an issue, except when you are facing lots of Physical damage incoming. Not much you can do about the WB spam no matter what class you are, and anyone worth their shirt will know how to get around the counters to it as well.

All in all, I'm rather hopeful next update, I think the CP changes will help us a lot, since there will be Physical mitigation and we aren't forced to spread out CP out so much, and I'd like to think there will be some kind of damage buff/mechanics change to our abilities.

well you forget important 2 passives of the Dks Skills.

Deep Breath will interup any target in range and bring it offbalance.
Powerlash will tick with a hot for 3,5-4k

Wollust wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

ebethke_ESO wrote: »

Goodness, it's been over 3-4 months since many declared magicka DK dead, and I still don't think ZOS has said anything concrete about the class.

Ahem

ZOS_eWrobel wrote:

DK - We're looking at making their dots stick to targets longer.

not concrete enough for you?

Just sit still while I dot you to death!!

well i tryed elfpain, this set sux because, exactly DOTS TICKS LONGER and i get my heal throught burning later

themdogesbite

BuggeX wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Edgar_Baerland wrote: »

@Jules

beautiful post, well thought out. I don't play DK seriously but I can't stand how bad they declawed the class. I remember the DK OP OMG WTF days, and I'd prefer that to this. As much as I feel templars need SERIOUS help (there's basically one offensive build and the rest is just wet noodling people) after reading this and generally just never seeing DKs in PVP anymore I truly feel for dedicated DK players, and I wish they'd be returned to glory, so to speak. I loved the challenge of playing a good DK.

I'm a Templar main through and through, but I'd way rather play against strong, challenging classes than just see the mindless NB/SORC spammers we have now. (not hating on sorcs and NBs but they are FOTM and thus there's a lot of mindless spammers out there)

Sorry it took me so long to respond to this, I just only now saw it.

Thanks, I appreciate the kind words, especially from someone who mains another class. DK's are in such a sad state that I can't even think of more than 1 person who mains a magicka DK anymore, and that's @Etaniel. And he's not even on the same megaserver as me. However, Etaniel's ability to play magicka dk really has nothing to do with the class itself, and is more a testament to his strength as a player and his ability to overcome the weaknesses.

Literally every Magicka DK I know/knew has either transitioned to stam or is playing another class. (Aegon, Kodi, Sypher, Panda, Grom, WRX, Beastswine, DK Babee, Divine Force, Oniric, Reign Supreme, Ariana Kishi, AOE BBQ, Cent Satori, the list goes on and on...) Those who have tried Magicka DK again since IC have liked it for about a day and then reverted back to stam or another class. It's incredibly sad to be honest, as if an entire population just ceased to exist.

I truly hope that with the next patch coming ZOS thinks long and hard about these people and the hundreds if not thousands of others who have abandoned that once beloved spec. To me, magicka dk was the first character I pvp'd on and I would love to return to it. Increased dot times will not solve the slew of fundamental flaws with the class. From the ground up, weak passives (except earthen heart tree) need to be rethought, tankiness needs to be reworked back into the class and FFS give them a functional gap closer without auto cc immunity. No one is advocating for DK's to be as OP as they were initially; just to be on par with other classes.

Takllin wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Edgar_Baerland wrote: »

@Jules

beautiful post, well thought out. I don't play DK seriously but I can't stand how bad they declawed the class. I remember the DK OP OMG WTF days, and I'd prefer that to this. As much as I feel templars need SERIOUS help (there's basically one offensive build and the rest is just wet noodling people) after reading this and generally just never seeing DKs in PVP anymore I truly feel for dedicated DK players, and I wish they'd be returned to glory, so to speak. I loved the challenge of playing a good DK.

I'm a Templar main through and through, but I'd way rather play against strong, challenging classes than just see the mindless NB/SORC spammers we have now. (not hating on sorcs and NBs but they are FOTM and thus there's a lot of mindless spammers out there)

Sorry it took me so long to respond to this, I just only now saw it.

Thanks, I appreciate the kind words, especially from someone who mains another class. DK's are in such a sad state that I can't even think of more than 1 person who mains a magicka DK anymore, and that's @Etaniel. And he's not even on the same megaserver as me. However, Etaniel's ability to play magicka dk really has nothing to do with the class itself, and is more a testament to his strength as a player and his ability to overcome the weaknesses.

Literally every Magicka DK I know/knew has either transitioned to stam or is playing another class. (Aegon, Kodi, Sypher, Panda, Grom, WRX, Beastswine, DK Babee, Divine Force, Oniric, Reign Supreme, Ariana Kishi, AOE BBQ, Cent Satori, the list goes on and on...) Those who have tried Magicka DK again since IC have liked it for about a day and then reverted back to stam or another class. It's incredibly sad to be honest, as if an entire population just ceased to exist.

I truly hope that with the next patch coming ZOS thinks long and hard about these people and the hundreds if not thousands of others who have abandoned that once beloved spec. To me, magicka dk was the first character I pvp'd on and I would love to return to it. Increased dot times will not solve the slew of fundamental flaws with the class. From the ground up, weak passives (except earthen heart tree) need to be rethought, tankiness needs to be reworked back into the class and FFS give them a functional gap closer without auto cc immunity. No one is advocating for DK's to be as OP as they were initially; just to be on par with other classes.

Having played mine a lot recently, talking/theorycrafting with others, and testing between my Bosmer Magicka NB and Dark Elf Magicka DK, it's asinine how much better NB is than DK.

With the same gear setup, 5 Light, 2 Heavy, 1h/Shield and Resto(5 Kags, 2 BS, 3 Willpower[1SD, 2 Regen glyphs], 2 Torugs), 100 CP into Ele on the DK, 100 CP into Thaum on the NB, my main DPS abilities look like this:

All damage is unbuffed. Mag Regen mundus.

Flame Lash
Cost - 1.8k
Damage 5.6k

Concealed Weapon
Cost - 1.8k
Damage - 7.5k

Deep Breath
Cost - 3k
Heal - 1.7k
Damage - 3.7k

Sap Essence
Cost - 2.4k
Heal - 1.5k + 20% per enemy hit
Damage - 4.5k

For their tankiness, honestly I don't think it's as big of an issue, except when you are facing lots of Physical damage incoming. Not much you can do about the WB spam no matter what class you are, and anyone worth their shirt will know how to get around the counters to it as well.

All in all, I'm rather hopeful next update, I think the CP changes will help us a lot, since there will be Physical mitigation and we aren't forced to spread out CP out so much, and I'd like to think there will be some kind of damage buff/mechanics change to our abilities.

well you forget important 2 passives of the Dks Skills.

Deep Breath will interup any target in range and bring it offbalance.
Powerlash will tick with a hot for 3,5-4k

Wollust wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

ebethke_ESO wrote: »

Goodness, it's been over 3-4 months since many declared magicka DK dead, and I still don't think ZOS has said anything concrete about the class.

Ahem

ZOS_eWrobel wrote:

DK - We're looking at making their dots stick to targets longer.

not concrete enough for you?

Just sit still while I dot you to death!!

well i tryed elfpain, this set sux because, exactly DOTS TICKS LONGER and i get my heal throught burning later

Although deep breath offbalances it can only heal from 3 targets with a delay from the damage. NBs sap essence heals from 6 targets, damage is instant AND it also provides a major damage buff.

DoTs sticking longer is hardly what the class needs, neither is some flying fist that does absolutely nothing.

alduiin

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

alduiin wrote: »

Just add a little dot dmg buff Dragon Blood and do something about the block nerf

DoT's? Really dude?

Yes dots soemthing u didnt understand? they tickle atm barely do anything (pvp atleast)

Sharee

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

DoTs sticking longer is hardly what the class needs...

Maybe we read it wrong. Maybe he did not mean increasing DOT duration, but rather making sure the DOTs stick to their target longer (i.e. are not easily removed as soon as they are applied).

That would be a start, at least.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO

Sharee wrote: »

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

DoTs sticking longer is hardly what the class needs...

Maybe we read it wrong. Maybe he did not mean increasing DOT duration, but rather making sure the DOTs stick to their target longer (i.e. are not easily removed as soon as they are applied).

That would be a start, at least.

I doubt that will change much cause the damage is not exactly high either. Can't burst someone down with these DoTs (okay that why they're over time), but they're easily outhealed/shielded as well. They need a secondary effect, like every time you hit the enemy that has a DoT on them you do extra damage... or stuff like that.

Sharee

r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

DoTs sticking longer is hardly what the class needs...

Maybe we read it wrong. Maybe he did not mean increasing DOT duration, but rather making sure the DOTs stick to their target longer (i.e. are not easily removed as soon as they are applied).

That would be a start, at least.

I doubt that will change much cause the damage is not exactly high either. Can't burst someone down with these DoTs (okay that why they're over time), but they're easily outhealed/shielded as well. They need a secondary effect, like every time you hit the enemy that has a DoT on them you do extra damage... or stuff like that.

Yea the DOTs need to be made dangerous. If see a DK put his DOTs on me, i should be in panic mode and frantically trying to kill him before his dots have a chance to kill me, not just casually cloak once to get rid of the nuisance (if i even bothar at all).

If the class is to be built around long-acting DOTs then so be it, but they need to be at least as dangerous overall as a sorcerer's burst(assuming equal gearing).

Hektik_V

DK DoTs need to be weaker and lava whip needs to hit harder. That would help DK's in PvP where they need a little more instant damage and less DoT, while keeping DK's PvE DPS in line with other classes.

BuggeX

r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

DoTs sticking longer is hardly what the class needs...

Maybe we read it wrong. Maybe he did not mean increasing DOT duration, but rather making sure the DOTs stick to their target longer (i.e. are not easily removed as soon as they are applied).

That would be a start, at least.

I doubt that will change much cause the damage is not exactly high either. Can't burst someone down with these DoTs (okay that why they're over time), but they're easily outhealed/shielded as well. They need a secondary effect, like every time you hit the enemy that has a DoT on them you do extra damage... or stuff like that.

my bruning ember and engufling flame will tick, if not removed, for 3-4k.
this will make much difference, since you cant dogge dots.

and they have second effects, dont you know the passives from dk?

and now Image a magicka s/b dk with skoria puting his dots on you, flame passives procs for an additional dot and whiping your ass with flame lash, then, well if you dont take Action with deffence you will melt

Bashev

BuggeX wrote: »

r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

DoTs sticking longer is hardly what the class needs...

Maybe we read it wrong. Maybe he did not mean increasing DOT duration, but rather making sure the DOTs stick to their target longer (i.e. are not easily removed as soon as they are applied).

That would be a start, at least.

I doubt that will change much cause the damage is not exactly high either. Can't burst someone down with these DoTs (okay that why they're over time), but they're easily outhealed/shielded as well. They need a secondary effect, like every time you hit the enemy that has a DoT on them you do extra damage... or stuff like that.

my bruning ember and engufling flame will tick, if not removed, for 3-4k.
this will make much difference, since you cant dogge dots.

and they have second effects, dont you know the passives from dk?

and now Image a magicka s/b dk with skoria puting his dots on you, flame passives procs for an additional dot and whiping your ass with flame lash, then, well if you dont take Action with deffence you will melt

So you need 6 seconds to burn 12k sorc shield. If the sorc has harness then what we are doing? If the dots are not removed by cleanse then all NB will cry cause the will not be able to cloak around.

BuggeX

Bashev wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

DoTs sticking longer is hardly what the class needs...

Maybe we read it wrong. Maybe he did not mean increasing DOT duration, but rather making sure the DOTs stick to their target longer (i.e. are not easily removed as soon as they are applied).

That would be a start, at least.

I doubt that will change much cause the damage is not exactly high either. Can't burst someone down with these DoTs (okay that why they're over time), but they're easily outhealed/shielded as well. They need a secondary effect, like every time you hit the enemy that has a DoT on them you do extra damage... or stuff like that.

my bruning ember and engufling flame will tick, if not removed, for 3-4k.
this will make much difference, since you cant dogge dots.

and they have second effects, dont you know the passives from dk?

and now Image a magicka s/b dk with skoria puting his dots on you, flame passives procs for an additional dot and whiping your ass with flame lash, then, well if you dont take Action with deffence you will melt

So you need 6 seconds to burn 12k sorc shield. If the sorc has harness then what we are doing? If the dots are not removed by cleanse then all NB will cry cause the will not be able to cloak around.

well sorcs are sorcs, even when they buff flamelash by 50-100% you will not be able to burn throught sorc shilds, but then aigan, sorcs cant kill you neither.

we have to deal with the unblokable imba spamable hardcc, so why shouldnt they deal with somthing painfull to?

_Chaos

alduiin wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

alduiin wrote: »

Just add a little dot dmg buff Dragon Blood and do something about the block nerf

DoT's? Really dude?

Yes dots soemthing u didnt understand? they tickle atm barely do anything (pvp atleast)

Yea boss, I don't understand why any serious PVPer would want DoT damage. To me that's just out of this world.
You do understand how purges, shields, and HoT's work, yes?

To each their own, but the last thing the Magicka DK needs in PVP is DoT damage increase. In this meta it's base damage or go home.

Takllin

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

Skaffá still going strong though, im amazed he sticks at it. Same with Etaniel and Legendary Omar.

They can still be great tanks and provide good support/utility, but damage wise it's

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Edgar_Baerland wrote: »

@Jules

beautiful post, well thought out. I don't play DK seriously but I can't stand how bad they declawed the class. I remember the DK OP OMG WTF days, and I'd prefer that to this. As much as I feel templars need SERIOUS help (there's basically one offensive build and the rest is just wet noodling people) after reading this and generally just never seeing DKs in PVP anymore I truly feel for dedicated DK players, and I wish they'd be returned to glory, so to speak. I loved the challenge of playing a good DK.

I'm a Templar main through and through, but I'd way rather play against strong, challenging classes than just see the mindless NB/SORC spammers we have now. (not hating on sorcs and NBs but they are FOTM and thus there's a lot of mindless spammers out there)

Sorry it took me so long to respond to this, I just only now saw it.

Thanks, I appreciate the kind words, especially from someone who mains another class. DK's are in such a sad state that I can't even think of more than 1 person who mains a magicka DK anymore, and that's @Etaniel. And he's not even on the same megaserver as me. However, Etaniel's ability to play magicka dk really has nothing to do with the class itself, and is more a testament to his strength as a player and his ability to overcome the weaknesses.

Literally every Magicka DK I know/knew has either transitioned to stam or is playing another class. (Aegon, Kodi, Sypher, Panda, Grom, WRX, Beastswine, DK Babee, Divine Force, Oniric, Reign Supreme, Ariana Kishi, AOE BBQ, Cent Satori, the list goes on and on...) Those who have tried Magicka DK again since IC have liked it for about a day and then reverted back to stam or another class. It's incredibly sad to be honest, as if an entire population just ceased to exist.

I truly hope that with the next patch coming ZOS thinks long and hard about these people and the hundreds if not thousands of others who have abandoned that once beloved spec. To me, magicka dk was the first character I pvp'd on and I would love to return to it. Increased dot times will not solve the slew of fundamental flaws with the class. From the ground up, weak passives (except earthen heart tree) need to be rethought, tankiness needs to be reworked back into the class and FFS give them a functional gap closer without auto cc immunity. No one is advocating for DK's to be as OP as they were initially; just to be on par with other classes.

Takllin wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Edgar_Baerland wrote: »

@Jules

beautiful post, well thought out. I don't play DK seriously but I can't stand how bad they declawed the class. I remember the DK OP OMG WTF days, and I'd prefer that to this. As much as I feel templars need SERIOUS help (there's basically one offensive build and the rest is just wet noodling people) after reading this and generally just never seeing DKs in PVP anymore I truly feel for dedicated DK players, and I wish they'd be returned to glory, so to speak. I loved the challenge of playing a good DK.

I'm a Templar main through and through, but I'd way rather play against strong, challenging classes than just see the mindless NB/SORC spammers we have now. (not hating on sorcs and NBs but they are FOTM and thus there's a lot of mindless spammers out there)

Sorry it took me so long to respond to this, I just only now saw it.

Thanks, I appreciate the kind words, especially from someone who mains another class. DK's are in such a sad state that I can't even think of more than 1 person who mains a magicka DK anymore, and that's @Etaniel. And he's not even on the same megaserver as me. However, Etaniel's ability to play magicka dk really has nothing to do with the class itself, and is more a testament to his strength as a player and his ability to overcome the weaknesses.

Literally every Magicka DK I know/knew has either transitioned to stam or is playing another class. (Aegon, Kodi, Sypher, Panda, Grom, WRX, Beastswine, DK Babee, Divine Force, Oniric, Reign Supreme, Ariana Kishi, AOE BBQ, Cent Satori, the list goes on and on...) Those who have tried Magicka DK again since IC have liked it for about a day and then reverted back to stam or another class. It's incredibly sad to be honest, as if an entire population just ceased to exist.

I truly hope that with the next patch coming ZOS thinks long and hard about these people and the hundreds if not thousands of others who have abandoned that once beloved spec. To me, magicka dk was the first character I pvp'd on and I would love to return to it. Increased dot times will not solve the slew of fundamental flaws with the class. From the ground up, weak passives (except earthen heart tree) need to be rethought, tankiness needs to be reworked back into the class and FFS give them a functional gap closer without auto cc immunity. No one is advocating for DK's to be as OP as they were initially; just to be on par with other classes.

Having played mine a lot recently, talking/theorycrafting with others, and testing between my Bosmer Magicka NB and Dark Elf Magicka DK, it's asinine how much better NB is than DK.

With the same gear setup, 5 Light, 2 Heavy, 1h/Shield and Resto(5 Kags, 2 BS, 3 Willpower[1SD, 2 Regen glyphs], 2 Torugs), 100 CP into Ele on the DK, 100 CP into Thaum on the NB, my main DPS abilities look like this:

All damage is unbuffed. Mag Regen mundus.

Flame Lash
Cost - 1.8k
Damage 5.6k

Concealed Weapon
Cost - 1.8k
Damage - 7.5k

Deep Breath
Cost - 3k
Heal - 1.7k
Damage - 3.7k

Sap Essence
Cost - 2.4k
Heal - 1.5k + 20% per enemy hit
Damage - 4.5k

For their tankiness, honestly I don't think it's as big of an issue, except when you are facing lots of Physical damage incoming. Not much you can do about the WB spam no matter what class you are, and anyone worth their shirt will know how to get around the counters to it as well.

All in all, I'm rather hopeful next update, I think the CP changes will help us a lot, since there will be Physical mitigation and we aren't forced to spread out CP out so much, and I'd like to think there will be some kind of damage buff/mechanics change to our abilities.

well you forget important 2 passives of the Dks Skills.

Deep Breath will interup any target in range and bring it offbalance.
Powerlash will tick with a hot for 3,5-4k

Wollust wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

ebethke_ESO wrote: »

Goodness, it's been over 3-4 months since many declared magicka DK dead, and I still don't think ZOS has said anything concrete about the class.

Ahem

ZOS_eWrobel wrote:

DK - We're looking at making their dots stick to targets longer.

not concrete enough for you?

Just sit still while I dot you to death!!

well i tryed elfpain, this set sux because, exactly DOTS TICKS LONGER and i get my heal throught burning later

Although deep breath offbalances it can only heal from 3 targets with a delay from the damage. NBs sap essence heals from 6 targets, damage is instant AND it also provides a major damage buff.

DoTs sticking longer is hardly what the class needs, neither is some flying fist that does absolutely nothing.

Concealed also stuns people when used from stealth.

The point wasn't to get into a pissing war of NB versus DK pros/cons, it's just looking at two core abilities of each class that are more or less the same to show the disparity that Magicka DK faces right now.

Hektik_V wrote: »

DK DoTs need to be weaker and lava whip needs to hit harder. That would help DK's in PvP where they need a little more instant damage and less DoT, while keeping DK's PvE DPS in line with other classes.

+1

Joy_Division

You know for all the claims that DKs are awesome in PvE - take a look at the Maelstrom Arena leaderboards.

Takllin

Joy_Division wrote: »

You know for all the claims that DKs are awesome in PvE - take a look at the Maelstrom Arena leaderboards.

It's always noted that in the context of being a Tank or DPS.

vMA is a combination of all roles.

You could flip this around and say that classes that are notoriously at the bottom spectrum of PvE are doing very well on the vMA leaderboards.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO

Takllin wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

You know for all the claims that DKs are awesome in PvE - take a look at the Maelstrom Arena leaderboards.

It's always noted that in the context of being a Tank or DPS.

vMA is a combination of all roles.

You could flip this around and say that classes that are notoriously at the bottom spectrum of PvE are doing very well on the vMA leaderboards.

Also it was never intended for all classes to achieve equal scores in vMA, hence the split leaderboards.

Glory

Hektik_V wrote: »

DK DoTs need to be weaker and lava whip needs to hit harder. That would help DK's in PvP where they need a little more instant damage and less DoT, while keeping DK's PvE DPS in line with other classes.

I think this would be a good solution. DK's are doing well in the PvE DPS role, so buffing without balancing may be too much as you said

Ghost-Shot

Joy_Division wrote: »

You know for all the claims that DKs are awesome in PvE - take a look at the Maelstrom Arena leaderboards.

DK's being awesome in PvE is pretty much exclusive to trials where you can stand still and focus on executing the rotation, out side of that they aren't that great.

Joy_Division

Takllin wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

You know for all the claims that DKs are awesome in PvE - take a look at the Maelstrom Arena leaderboards.

It's always noted that in the context of being a Tank or DPS.

vMA is a combination of all roles.

You could flip this around and say that classes that are notoriously at the bottom spectrum of PvE are doing very well on the vMA leaderboards.

It's not always noted in that context. Just sometimes by people who care to give accurate and constructive feedback.

Though I'm not sure I agree that somehow DKs are on that PvE pedestal. NBs can tank anything a DK can. From what my sorcerer friends who still care about their DPS tell me, they can match what a DK can pull with a perfect rotation. I'm not sure it is accurate to say they are at the bottom of the PVE spectrum (though they certainly were before 1.6).

If a class can't functionally do a combination of all roles, that's a problem a sign IMHO that its PvE effectiveness isn't as cracked up to what it is supposed to be.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »

Also it was never intended for all classes to achieve equal scores in vMA, hence the split leaderboards.

Not asking for equality. Asking for a state of affairs such that an 8 hour run and a crap 319 score is not the 59th best score ever in the entire NA server.

PainfulFAFA

Teargrants wrote: »

ebethke_ESO wrote: »

Goodness, it's been over 3-4 months since many declared magicka DK dead, and I still don't think ZOS has said anything concrete about the class.

Ahem

ZOS_eWrobel wrote:

DK - We're looking at making their dots stick to targets longer.

not concrete enough for you?

God damn Wrobel has no idea.

Does he not know that:
1) DoTs are easily purgeable by Templars?
2)DoTs are easily purgeable by NBs
3) DoTs don't work on shields

The only classes I see getting hit hard by these are Stam Sorcs/Stam DKs!

Moglijuana

Managed to finally gear up my Magicka DK to BIS armor the other day. I have 5L/2H s&s/resto Kagrenac's/Magnus/Willpower. It's still sub par to what I was expecting it to be. I've put in probably close to 300 hours on this character alone and still feel like I get the short end of the stick when fighting equally geared/skilled players. My KDR is actually pretty good considering I play mostly solo but almost every fight I find myself using EVERY SINGLE ABILITY on BOTH bars and it's still not enough unless I can catch them with a good prox det/ultimate combo. But then we have my NB that can survive and kill almost anything without even switching bars...