Cloak Needs A Nerf

Garion

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

Maybe ZOS should remove their ridiculous nerf to streak and start looking at core game issues rather than berfing individual skills.

In the current game yes, cloak does need a nerf and following the BE nerf and introduction of shield breaker set it's only good for balance if this happens. Ultimately though I think it's just another case of nerfing the latest subject of QQ rather than examining the wider issues around soft caps and how easy it is to achieve infinite regen.

Could not agree more, but I have little hope of them reverting to pre-Champion System resource management.

Oh look... sorcs complaing QQ dont see that every day on the forums. if we get cloak nerf i wanna see there shields nerfed!

The most hypocritical post 2015.

Maulkin wasn't QQing, he was actually saying he'd rather see changes to the champ system etc than a nerf... But of course, NB sensitivity reigns supreme and they instantly assume everyone is out to get them. You are the one QQing here, friend!

CP5

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

Maybe ZOS should remove their ridiculous nerf to streak and start looking at core game issues rather than berfing individual skills.

In the current game yes, cloak does need a nerf and following the BE nerf and introduction of shield breaker set it's only good for balance if this happens. Ultimately though I think it's just another case of nerfing the latest subject of QQ rather than examining the wider issues around soft caps and how easy it is to achieve infinite regen.

Could not agree more, but I have little hope of them reverting to pre-Champion System resource management.

Oh look... sorcs complaing QQ dont see that every day on the forums. if we get cloak nerf i wanna see there shields nerfed!

Wait, someone makes a comment about wanting to focus on balancing the base game rather than micro managing each skill (what is now happening to cloak), and someone agrees with them about wanting to go back to the skill based resource management system, and you flag them as sorc complaining and then want them to get nerfed again? This is the kind of mentality that only helps this pointless cycle of revenge nerfing continue.

Maulkin

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

Maybe ZOS should remove their ridiculous nerf to streak and start looking at core game issues rather than berfing individual skills.

In the current game yes, cloak does need a nerf and following the BE nerf and introduction of shield breaker set it's only good for balance if this happens. Ultimately though I think it's just another case of nerfing the latest subject of QQ rather than examining the wider issues around soft caps and how easy it is to achieve infinite regen.

Could not agree more, but I have little hope of them reverting to pre-Champion System resource management.

Oh look... sorcs complaing QQ dont see that every day on the forums. if we get cloak nerf i wanna see there shields nerfed!

Lol, it's the first time NBs have had anything else than buffs. Relax, you'll get used to it.

And yes shield-stacking needs looking at.

Daveheart

Darlgon wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

@ZOS_GinaBruno To make ANY change to a skill that STILL does not work correctly after a year that diminishes it's effectiveness in anyway is simply, stupid. If a change does come to pass the man or woman that came up with it should be fired and the Nightblade class needs to be removed and replaced because that's how useless it'll be without being able to spam cloak.

As for the people complaining.

THERE ARE 48 SKILLS IN GAME THAT CAN COUNTER CLOAK WITH ONE BUTTON PRESS AND HALF OF THEM COST LESS THAN CLOAK DOES WITH FULL REDUCTION, TWO, ARE TOGGLES.

This is skills alone, not even counting sets or detect potions. ANYONE. Who thinks Cloak needs a nerf, is a god be damned idiot. I'm sorry.

If any of these are on your list of 48 skills take them off:

Cinderstorm
Deep Breath
Talons

None of these take a NB out of cloak since the patch last week. Have not tested today.

Whether it needs a nerf or not is a different story, but the the way you've framed a complaint here is backwards. The skill(s) that need to be looked at first are the one's that are not correctly affecting the others. Before any timers or regen nerfs are added/associated with Dark Cloak, they really need to make sure that all the other skills are functioning as intended when interacting with the skill.

Essentially, before going to the forums to complain about something like dark cloak, every should ask themselves a couple of questions first.

1. What did I do to try and counter dark cloak?
2. Was the skill I tried to use actually supposed to work against dark cloak?

If the answer to question 2 is that it was supposed to work, then confirm that said skill is bugged and report it. If the answer to question 2 is that it's not supposed to work against cloak, then adjust your gameplay and equip/use a counter.

Wollust

*sigh*

And the nerfing continues. When are they ever gonna get that this nerf-culture is not good over the long term. They'd rather buff other stuff instead of nerfing everything to the ground and therefore destroying everything class-relevant. But hey, at this point, I guess, it doesn't even matter anymore. This game is moving towards its end anyway.

SturgeHammer

I don't think cloak is overpowered or anything like that , but I do think the effects of major/minor expedition should be halved while cloaked. The best way to counter that style of cloaking is to just not interact with the NB doing it, which isn't very fun gameplay, at least I don't think it is.

Joy_Division

Why is it when NBs complain to ZoS about sorc shields it is objective and informed analysis but when non NBs complain to ZoS about cloak it is whining from PvP baddies who need to L2P?

AshTal

My thought on this is like most class abilities which seem to strong, the average NB is expending abilities while fighting he can't clock a dozen times. We can sometimes find and kill him,

The issue is with the small number of uber players who can kill 3 people vanish, get away from 20 people spamming AOE's then reappear 20 seconds later of full stats kill another 3 people and vanish again right in front of everyone and just repeat never being found and never going below 50% health before vanishing.

I would say issues need to be done to fix the few who make the ability unstoppable not the many who only get found more times than not. Just the same with bolt escape it was nerfed to hell the casual player now sucks while the uber 5 % haven't even noticed it was nerfed.

Maulkin

Wollust wrote: »

*sigh*

And the nerfing continues. When are they ever gonna get that this nerf-culture is not good over the long term. They'd rather buff other stuff instead of nerfing everything to the ground and therefore destroying everything class-relevant. But hey, at this point, I guess, it doesn't even matter anymore. This game is moving towards its end anyway.

Well if you read Gina's post they are going for a gentle nerf. Plus the reason why some stuff is getting nerfed is because with Champion System they can't get a handle on resource sustain.

In truth Cloak, is more likely to revert a state closer to 1.5 where it's still extremely useful but not crazily spammable. I'll reserve judgement until I see the actual change though.

rordogg

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

Can you hear that guys? That is the sound of Nightblade tears.

killingspreeb16_ESO

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

*sigh*

And the nerfing continues. When are they ever gonna get that this nerf-culture is not good over the long term. They'd rather buff other stuff instead of nerfing everything to the ground and therefore destroying everything class-relevant. But hey, at this point, I guess, it doesn't even matter anymore. This game is moving towards its end anyway.

Well if you read Gina's post they are going for a gentle nerf. Plus the reason why some stuff is getting nerfed is because with Champion System they can't get a handle on resource sustain.

In truth Cloak, is more likely to revert a state closer to 1.5 where it's still extremely useful but not crazily spammable. I'll reserve judgement until I see the actual change though.

and after the nerf if people see a Nb can escape from them what they do?

1 Step:To the Forum!

2Step:Open a new thread about Cloak

3Step:Talk about how OP is cloak because a NB can escape from them

Nothing will change,anyways is the nerf will not kill the skill for stamina NB im fine as i said in my other post.

Be ready for the Nerf Shield Thread after cloak.

Stikato

Cloak spammers. Look at this thread for a bit. Then think about how sorc damage shields and bolt were in 1.6.

Remember how vigorously they defended that build?

Now, look at 1.7, and how ZOS dealt with it.

Sometimes, coming up with good solutions is better for your overall position, rather than blindly defending what benefits you.

Artis

1. Cloak can be countered by Inner Light or another morph, by Flare (support line), Caltrops(assault line) and pretty much any other AoE.
2. Cloak is not even unique. Others can be invisible due to potions or a champion system perk.

It's not like there are skills that make wings, bolt escape or templar healing stop working. Cloak is the only thing that makes NBs kinda unique namely because they can use it repeatedly. No nerf. as a matter of fact, might increase duration and resource cost.

Domander

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

Any nerf to cloak would leave it underpowered (along with the nightblade class) unless it was buffed in some other way.

Nightblade has no big heal, no class shield (this is a big deal for magicka NB), no area root, and no reflect.

Domander

I'd also like to add that if you're going to nerf something, nerf the dot cure (replace it with something else). That would at least make the other morph an option.

Azarath_tiberius

Wait, an other class is getting nerfed? DKs be like..

Master_Kas

Derra wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Poxheart wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Does the OP know that a cloaked NB is a NB who's not doing anything but running away? He's not hurting, neither stunning his enemies. The skill has almost no use besides being a escape, except in the case of the combo cloak + veiled strike, which requiers a lot of skill to be used with the always in-movement enemies in cyrodil.

You do realize that being able to disappear & reset the fight at will is doing something? Good nightblades use cloak to set their opponent up for killing attacks. Bad nightblades use it only to run away.

This whole thread however is basically a complain that a magicka NB can run away. Because if he wants to 'reset the fight', all he needs is two cloaks tops(assuming they work), for healing ward to expire. There is no reason for a NB to stay invisible longer than that unless he needs to run away from the fight.

Since the ability to run away is defenitly not desired for a class to have (for further information check bolt escape nerfs) what´s exactly wrong with people complaining about nightblades being worse than sorcs now (because they get a playground full of NPCs that will aggro anyone attempting to chase them).

Well only noobs complained about bolt escape. Shieldspamming to be tankier than guys than heavy armor was the issue, not bolt escape. Sadly bolt got the nerfhammer instead because of people not knowing how to use gapclosers while blocking.

Hydrocodone

A good start to balance Cloak out IMO revert the nerf on detection pots by 50% and Give it the same treatment as Stamina regen while blocking , no magicka regen while cloaked. If that is too much then at the very least give it the bolt escape treatment. v15 detection pots give 15.7 seconds duration which is laughable.

Maulkin

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

*sigh*

And the nerfing continues. When are they ever gonna get that this nerf-culture is not good over the long term. They'd rather buff other stuff instead of nerfing everything to the ground and therefore destroying everything class-relevant. But hey, at this point, I guess, it doesn't even matter anymore. This game is moving towards its end anyway.

Well if you read Gina's post they are going for a gentle nerf. Plus the reason why some stuff is getting nerfed is because with Champion System they can't get a handle on resource sustain.

In truth Cloak, is more likely to revert a state closer to 1.5 where it's still extremely useful but not crazily spammable. I'll reserve judgement until I see the actual change though.

and after the nerf if people see a Nb can escape from them what they do?

1 Step:To the Forum!

2Step:Open a new thread about Cloak

3Step:Talk about how OP is cloak because a NB can escape from them

Nothing will change,anyways is the nerf will not kill the skill for stamina NB im fine as i said in my other post.

Be ready for the Nerf Shield Thread after cloak.

Meh, I'm a Sorc, I'm used to nerf sorc threads there's been hundreds of those. We had Bolt nerfed near on 10 times now. But it's still very usable, which is why I'm saying wait for the Cloak nerf and judge it after a few weeks it's been out. Atm you're just angry which is understandable

As for the shields, just make healing ward a heal and then make shields not stack after that. And it doesn't even have to be as strong as BoL or anything just a viable 5k-ish heal (in PvP). Currently there is no single target heal on the whole freaking resto line. There is like 2 AoEs, 1 terrible Hot and 1 Shield but not a single direct heal.

I've been calling for an end to shield stacking for months

Gerardopg

Yeah you will adapt in fact when I heard about the shield braker, and the need to bolt escape I was so worry that I started to level a magicka nightblade but when the patch come I try out my sorcerer and I could adapt y deleted de nightblade because I knew that it's no worth the effort to level him, everything's that you fell is op is gonna be nerfed so just stay with the class you like and adapt to change, I hope they solve the problem and don't give a awful treatment like bolt escape, because it hurts more the stamina sorcerers that the magicka ones, for me I fell now more the nerf when I'm in pve and I have to use the horse when I used to only use bolt escape

Suru

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

I highly suggest against any nerf. You are right, it has many counters and as a stamina NB i eek what I cam into magika recov just to competitively cloak in pvp. Its what my magika is solely for anyways. Stamina nb doesnt need this merf amd we know going stamina that we wont be able to use class abilities as much as magika nb. One aoe ability and we're done and along with our magika pool.. You're already making us work foe the vampire recovery.

MisterBigglesworth

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

Whatever change you decide to make, please recognize that it cannot be a blanket change for ALL Nightblades and must function differently for Magicka NBs vs. Stamina NBs.

To that end: I think an elegant solution would be, as you said, to slightly reduce Magicka regen while cloaked... HOWEVER, add a passive that makes a fully charged heavy attack with a Resto/Destro staff restore more magicka when cast from stealth. This would make the change less of a penalty on Magicka NBs, who do less damage than (and are more reliant on cloaking than) Stam NBs. I think this would strike a good balance.

MrGrimey

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

There is not a skill in the game that has more counters than shadow cloak... This is really a l2p issue.

Any nerfs to shadow cloak will completely ruin steam nb since they can only cloak about 3 times before they are out of magicka. With the regen nerfs, and dodge roll nerfs, stam NBs will be ruined if cloak gets nerfed

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Ernest145

The only problem i have with cloak is the fact that when fighting a night blade and mobs get pulled(which happens almost all of the time) that they all aggro you when the night blades cloaks and the ic mobs hit really damn hard which is ***.

Ishammael

WTB 1.5

(Relevant at current)

I also agree with: f the champion system
It's half the problem.

rordogg

MrGrimey wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

There is not a skill in the game that has more counters than shadow cloak... This is really a l2p issue.

Any nerds to shadow cloak will completely ruin steam nb since they can only cloak about 3 times before they are out of magicka. With the regen nerfs, and dodge roll nerfs, stam NBs will be ruined if cloak gets nerfed

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Lol I have a Stam Nightblade and he can easily cloak about 10 times in a row. Unless your one of those nightblades that completely stacks weapon power and stamina over everything else.

Eleusian

Nerfs ... Already a ability called radiant Mage light . No one uses it , I do on all my toons it's funny to see night blades try to sneak past a crowd and get ganked

BEZDNA

I do also use Radiant Mage light and it is not relaible, sometimes it works as intended and prevents players from beeing invisible but sometimes i see ppl disaperaing in cloack just in 2 steps away from it. Make Radient Magelight more relieble and i'm totaly OK with cloack

wraith808

First of all, nerfing something that's not working seems a bit... ill-advised. Get it totally working, where it's 100% dependable that if you press the button, it's going to go off... and it's not going to get disrupted by things that shouldn't disrupt it. Then we can talk.

Second of all, what is this hate between classes on this particular game? I mean, there's class bias in any game. But in this one... it's downright NASTY. Why is that?

rordogg

Azarath_tiberius wrote: »

Wait, an other class is getting nerfed? DKs be like..

I keep dying laughing every time I see this lol. I main a DK and I'm still not sure what I think of him post patch. GDB seems kinda pointless now.