Cloak Needs A Nerf

babanovac

ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »

Personally I don't see what is wrong with escape mechanics. If a player cloaks or bolt-escapes away its probably because they are not very good at fighting anyway. If I can catch them, then great I get some TV stones, but if I don't then so what?

That's just the thing, NBs are the only ones left that have this escape mechanic. All the rest of the classes have to stay in the fight and die.

Also, if a player is not very good, he should die. Getting away in pvp is a skill in itself, and should not be reserved to a single class.

babanovac

Also to the people saying that cloak has counters, it's pretty obvious you haven't tried them. Everyone in this thread asking for a nerf to cloak have tried them and we know how inefficient all those counters are.

Araxleon

If cloak gets ANY penalty (increase in cost/reduce magicka regen) It is only fair they remove ALL counters to cloak.

Helluin

Since I've restarted TESO (but it was the same months ago), the majority of the complaints about balancement I read on forum or in game are simply directly or undirectly related to two issues: infinite resources and CP.
These are once again problems caused by 1.6, problems that many enlighted when these mechanics were explained and during 1.6 PTS, so with its release (without speaking about the ultra-semplification of skills magicka/stamina and what happened to diversification, "play as you want" and hybrid builds).

Now is the turn of Cloak and every time we see great exercises of creativity to solve these issues with complicated solutions instead of address the real problem.
These are just a panacea, just temporary remedies instead of a proper diagnosis and the related therapy.


As many pointed out, Cloak has many counters and it can be fine as it is.
Is it time to change it? Ok, fine, np.
It's a core skill of NB and obviously a changement should consider the effect on both stamina and magicka builds.
Surely prevent the magicka recovery while cloaked can be a solution, if a changement is really required, but it would still be an issue because it would have a really different impact on stamina and magicka builds.
It would be better something based on the magicka pool and magicka recovery of a character.

The problem is that it was Streak, Damage Shields, now Cloak, then what?
And so we are back to the main issues introduced by 1.6, because it's not a matter of simple skills but it depends by a general mechanic and system.

Joy_Division

Master_Kas wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Non- NB's always complain that "NB can pick the fight when they want" etc, but they forget every class can stealth and hide and pick the fight they want.

Master_Kas wrote: »

DeanTheCat wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

@DeanTheCat Look at some comments after this was posted. I plan to abuse my shieldbreaker as much as possible, or my shieldspamming sorc. Probably both

@Master_Kas: I read (almost) every thread on the forums so I saw the posts. I don't really care either way. This change only means that I substitute my Essences of Magicka with cheap Nirnroot + Blue Entoloma infusions. I'll still achieve the same end result. I don't have much Magicka regen to begin with anyway.

... Though I don't think Kris would be too happy about it. He spends more time in cloak then out.

Yes pots will help, but if you have low magicka regen it will be even lower with this change. Magicka nightblades will still be able to spam it alot more. This is worse for stamina nbs than magicka ones imo. :P

Ah yes Kris, wonder what he thinks about this.

If magicka regeneration is a bit lower, you can still drink magicka potions to keep magicka up. I think in the end people will have found other builds to keep unlimited cloaking. I don't see what the issue is. As long as the cloak, they don't attack. And a detect potion or caltrops it's just like they never cloaked.

Yesterday in IC I was chased by a group of angry EP because I killed one dude and got 800 TV. I cloaked once. I just used charging manouvres for CC immunity and run of. Cloaked once near a splitting so they didn't know which way I was going. going, going gone.

It's not unlimited cloak they cry about. They say it is, but they just angry if any NB gets away. Whether you cloak once or 10 times.

I know how to have better success in getting away. I also have tons of magicka pots, cost reduction and magicka regen even as a stamina nightblade thanks to gear and championpoints. Thing is alot of newer players don't use regen drinks nor have tons of champ points nor the experience on how to use it properly. They will get wrecked even easier and will probably leave the game thanks to no means to defend themselves. But then again this applies to most new players facing properly geared V16's with alot of champ points. And with the way things are going, do we really need less players?

This will affect stamina nightblades way more than magicka ones. You cannot disagree on that.

Thing is everything keeps getting nerfed, it's the way ZOS wants to handle things. So be it. Just can't justify nerfing a skill which is a class main defense, which already have tons of counters which can render it useless. (Not saying it's useless, but it can be made useless by multiple skills + pots)

All right, someone has got to put a stop to this.

Not to single you out, but really, think of the new players? How about those new players who rolled a DK? Where were all you NB forum warriors claiming nerfs were bad for the game and L2P issues when their class has been absolutely eviscerated over the past year?

"Just can't justify nerfing a skill which is a class main defense" this is total BS. DK reflective scales rings a bell? Hey, it ain't a NB skill, bring on the nerfbat. Where where these sentiments when Templars pointed out their signature defensive skill got hit with the nerfbat? How would NBs like it if ZoS came out and said cloak only works against single targets and you can only have one active? Think that was a bit excessive, right? Want a counter to Eclipse, just fricking CC break...there, no more eclipses thrown against you for 8 seconds. None of you have to look like an idiot spamming AoEs into empty air and waste a slot using the awful revealing flare skill.

At least be honest. Say that since you have to put up with sorcerers and their stupid OP shields you don't want to lose cloak and you don't give a rat's a** about how other classes get nerfed.

Jprip88b16_ESO

told u NB's cloak would get nerfed in some way.... hold that HOT 600 to your bird chests

Balance aint fun or fair when it hits your own class huh?!?!

Soulac

Derra wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Fortunately I can´t cast more than three cloaks anyway..
It will hit magicka nbs surely hard tho and I´ll just wait until something similar happens to shields and heals (BoL).
I mean if no other defense ability is spammable, why should shields and heals be an exception.
Just a matter of time until people QQ about the next thing.

Next penality is for shield!

Oh i´m so glad we can point anyone having problems with shields to the wonderful shieldbreaker set zenimax just introduced with their latest major patch for this occasion

I'd rather slot a skill to counter shields than being forced to drop a set bonus and run Stamina based just to counter shields.
Also Shield breaker isn't removing your shields, only the one attacking you is bypassing them with a little amount of damage.
I mean cloak is awesome sometimes, but if it's all you got you will notice how frustrating this skill actually is.
Mark, burning embers, Shadow image, Caltrops, flare, potion which is not even visible, Shadow, talons, cinderstorm and I could continue with that list. Now imagine you get also a penalty for using something without knowing if it actually works.
Just cause someone is using Shield breaker doesn't make your shields useless, but someone using a simple potion can negate my defense against a whole group.

I actually don't care if cloak gets a penalty as long as they fix it completely and apply penalties to all other defense abilities.
You all speak of balancing, so I hope you see that issue as well.

Stamina Build defense:
Heal - heal over time and spamming it won't bring you back to full health or any close of it
Block - no stamina Reg
Dodge - cost increase
Cloak - most certainly gets a penalty to avoid multiple usage in a row

Compared to Templar heals (which makes him tanky while healing the whole group) and Magicka shields like hardened ward or healing ward this defense is limited - you won't be able to spam them infinite.

If you hold pressure on me I will run out of ressources.
If I hold pressure on you, but you're specced for huge heals or shields, nothing will happen to you - you won't run out of ressources.
Of course this game isn't balanced around 1v1, but by using this argument I could upload a video of every single group fight showing the ground covered in Caltrops, making cloak the most useless skill in eso.

Anyway, it's just a matter of time until the QQ goes over to shields and breath of life and I'll wait for this very moment.

Garion

Araxleon wrote: »

If cloak gets ANY penalty (increase in cost/reduce magicka regen) It is only fair they remove ALL counters to cloak.

Okay, but only if they stop gap closers working against streak.

Gerardopg

time for the night blades has arrive and for some of you saying oh you cannot nerf our only defensive skill, well they nerf shields pretty hard, and bolt escape pretty hard so just expect the same, but you will adapt no worries

Soulac

Garion wrote: »

Araxleon wrote: »

If cloak gets ANY penalty (increase in cost/reduce magicka regen) It is only fair they remove ALL counters to cloak.

Okay, but only if they stop gap closers working against streak.

Deal.

Maulkin

Soulac wrote: »

Anyway, it's just a matter of time until the QQ goes over to shields and breath of life and I'll wait for this very moment.

Wait? Wait for what XD.
The QQ for shields has been going on since 2014. Feck it, the QQ for Sorcs in general has been going on since DKs got demolished. It's nothing new to us.

Again I agree with some of the posts here, especially the ones that point that out that the issue is the ridiculous sustain introduced with 1.6 due to soft-cap removal and CP system.

But overall, I see this as an overreaction. Bolt has had easily 6-7 nerfs and it's still usable. I'm sure Cloak will be very usable afterwards too. You could all use Cloak effectively back in 1.5 when you couldn't spam it, it's not the freaking death of the class like you guys make it sound.

Master_Kas

Joy_Division wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Non- NB's always complain that "NB can pick the fight when they want" etc, but they forget every class can stealth and hide and pick the fight they want.

Master_Kas wrote: »

DeanTheCat wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

@DeanTheCat Look at some comments after this was posted. I plan to abuse my shieldbreaker as much as possible, or my shieldspamming sorc. Probably both

@Master_Kas: I read (almost) every thread on the forums so I saw the posts. I don't really care either way. This change only means that I substitute my Essences of Magicka with cheap Nirnroot + Blue Entoloma infusions. I'll still achieve the same end result. I don't have much Magicka regen to begin with anyway.

... Though I don't think Kris would be too happy about it. He spends more time in cloak then out.

Yes pots will help, but if you have low magicka regen it will be even lower with this change. Magicka nightblades will still be able to spam it alot more. This is worse for stamina nbs than magicka ones imo. :P

Ah yes Kris, wonder what he thinks about this.

If magicka regeneration is a bit lower, you can still drink magicka potions to keep magicka up. I think in the end people will have found other builds to keep unlimited cloaking. I don't see what the issue is. As long as the cloak, they don't attack. And a detect potion or caltrops it's just like they never cloaked.

Yesterday in IC I was chased by a group of angry EP because I killed one dude and got 800 TV. I cloaked once. I just used charging manouvres for CC immunity and run of. Cloaked once near a splitting so they didn't know which way I was going. going, going gone.

It's not unlimited cloak they cry about. They say it is, but they just angry if any NB gets away. Whether you cloak once or 10 times.

I know how to have better success in getting away. I also have tons of magicka pots, cost reduction and magicka regen even as a stamina nightblade thanks to gear and championpoints. Thing is alot of newer players don't use regen drinks nor have tons of champ points nor the experience on how to use it properly. They will get wrecked even easier and will probably leave the game thanks to no means to defend themselves. But then again this applies to most new players facing properly geared V16's with alot of champ points. And with the way things are going, do we really need less players?

This will affect stamina nightblades way more than magicka ones. You cannot disagree on that.

Thing is everything keeps getting nerfed, it's the way ZOS wants to handle things. So be it. Just can't justify nerfing a skill which is a class main defense, which already have tons of counters which can render it useless. (Not saying it's useless, but it can be made useless by multiple skills + pots)

All right, someone has got to put a stop to this.

Not to single you out, but really, think of the new players? How about those new players who rolled a DK? Where were all you NB forum warriors claiming nerfs were bad for the game and L2P issues when their class has been absolutely eviscerated over the past year?

"Just can't justify nerfing a skill which is a class main defense" this is total BS. DK reflective scales rings a bell? Hey, it ain't a NB skill, bring on the nerfbat. Where where these sentiments when Templars pointed out their signature defensive skill got hit with the nerfbat? How would NBs like it if ZoS came out and said cloak only works against single targets and you can only have one active? Think that was a bit excessive, right? Want a counter to Eclipse, just fricking CC break...there, no more eclipses thrown against you for 8 seconds. None of you have to look like an idiot spamming AoEs into empty air and waste a slot using the awful revealing flare skill.

At least be honest. Say that since you have to put up with sorcerers and their stupid OP shields you don't want to lose cloak and you don't give a rat's a** about how other classes get nerfed.

I never once asked for any nerfs to wings because I didn't use projectiles vs them . Nor for templars. Only thing I wanted nerf for is sorcerers shieldspamming.

We need more players not less.

" "Just can't justify nerfing a skill which is a class main defense" this is total BS"

This is not total BS. A nb without cloak is ***, he can try rolling around but without cloak to reset the timer he is dead in most cases.

The hatred you have for the NB class shines brightly all over your post btw. You trying to tell me that YOU care about the NB class? Doesn't seem like it

Edit: I got this forum account towards the later half of 1.6, so wasn't around before that in the forums. What other's say and do not say, I cant control nor does it mean that I agree with what other nightblades write just because I main a nightblade too.

Seems to me you seeing this as getting even, since DK's got nerfed NBs shall get nerfed too? With that mentality this game is just going to lead to more nerfs until everything is equally useless.

Find me a post where I say nerf dks/wings/templars/bolt escape. You wont. So go pick on someone else.

Soulac

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Anyway, it's just a matter of time until the QQ goes over to shields and breath of life and I'll wait for this very moment.

Wait? Wait for what XD.
The QQ for shields has been going on since 2014. Feck it, the QQ for Sorcs in general has been going on since DKs got demolished. It's nothing new to us.

Again I agree with some of the posts here, especially the ones that point that out that the issue is the ridiculous sustain introduced with 1.6 due to soft-cap removal and CP system.

But overall, I see this as an overreaction. Bolt has had easily 6-7 nerfs and it's still usable. I'm sure Cloak will be very usable afterwards too. You could all use Cloak effectively back in 1.5 when you couldn't spam it, it's not the freaking death of the class like you guys make it sound.

Wrong, even in 1.5 you were able to spam cloak.
I mean I was still at softcap Spelldmg, so I did quite some dmg as well.
I'm aware that infinity ressources are easier to get now, but at least as Stamina Build you don't really got infinity ressources anymore.
You can't dodge or block an infinity amount of time and even with 2k Magicka recovery you won't be able to spam cloak if it breaks.

Derra

Soulac wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Fortunately I can´t cast more than three cloaks anyway..
It will hit magicka nbs surely hard tho and I´ll just wait until something similar happens to shields and heals (BoL).
I mean if no other defense ability is spammable, why should shields and heals be an exception.
Just a matter of time until people QQ about the next thing.

Next penality is for shield!

Oh i´m so glad we can point anyone having problems with shields to the wonderful shieldbreaker set zenimax just introduced with their latest major patch for this occasion

I'd rather slot a skill to counter shields than being forced to drop a set bonus and run Stamina based just to counter shields.
Also Shield breaker isn't removing your shields, only the one attacking you is bypassing them with a little amount of damage.
I mean cloak is awesome sometimes, but if it's all you got you will notice how frustrating this skill actually is.
Mark, burning embers, Shadow image, Caltrops, flare, potion which is not even visible, Shadow, talons, cinderstorm and I could continue with that list. Now imagine you get also a penalty for using something without knowing if it actually works.
Just cause someone is using Shield breaker doesn't make your shields useless, but someone using a simple potion can negate my defense against a whole group.

I actually don't care if cloak gets a penalty as long as they fix it completely and apply penalties to all other defense abilities.
You all speak of balancing, so I hope you see that issue as well.

Stamina Build defense:
Heal - heal over time and spamming it won't bring you back to full health or any close of it
Block - no stamina Reg
Dodge - cost increase
Cloak - most certainly gets a penalty to avoid multiple usage in a row

Compared to Templar heals (which makes him tanky while healing the whole group) and Magicka shields like hardened ward or healing ward this defense is limited - you won't be able to spam them infinite.

If you hold pressure on me I will run out of ressources.
If I hold pressure on you, but you're specced for huge heals or shields, nothing will happen to you - you won't run out of ressources.
Of course this game isn't balanced around 1v1, but by using this argument I could upload a video of every single group fight showing the ground covered in Caltrops, making cloak the most useless skill in eso.

Anyway, it's just a matter of time until the QQ goes over to shields and breath of life and I'll wait for this very moment.

I agree with all of that. Still there is nothing they can do about shields now that they´ve introduced shieldbreaker (which should have been a magica set all along bc you know - harness/dampen). If they happen to revisit shieldbreaker i´m the first one to ask them to make shields not stackable anymore.
As long as that set is in play i´ll point anyone complaining about shields into that general direction because that´s how zos decided to balance shields.

The problem with cloak is not that it´s a defensive skill but rather it´s defense + mobility/initiative combined. The problem lies with the mobility/initiative part of the skill because every aoe counter to it is not really a counter if you can´t use it bc the nightblade is hiding between enemy NPCs in IC. Cloak is far less of a problem in open world pvp. But for IC it´s hell.

Garion wrote: »

Araxleon wrote: »

If cloak gets ANY penalty (increase in cost/reduce magicka regen) It is only fair they remove ALL counters to cloak.

Okay, but only if they stop gap closers working against streak.

Nah they´d have to remove all gap closers and speed buffs. That would be fair.

Also @Araxleon you should not cry but adapt. I think you made a nice topic for sorcs to do so. Try to think outside the box. A good nb does not rely on cloak - that´s cheap anyway!

Helluin

Considering also my point of view about infinite resources, there is one simple solution that can be applied to Cloak and also to other skills, if spammed.

1. Make the cost of the skill unaffected by cost reductions (passive skills, glyphs, sets, champion system)
2. Cost of the skill: X% of the total magicka pool
3. Increased cost of the skill: for each use, the cost of the skill is increased by Y% of the total magicka pool
4. Reduced recovery: for the duration of the skill the magicka recovery is reduced by Z%

This would be balanced between magicka and stamina builds.
It can be appplied to other skills and mechanics like dodge (considering stamina obviously), damage shields, etc.

Fya0713

OH COMON give me a break......cloak absolutely doesn't need a nerf. Cloak JUST got fixed. The things people cry about in the game just absolutely blow my mind. I'm a Templar/DK and cloak has NEVER presented a significant issue to combat. The fact that this post has gotten so many agreements really grosses me out.

Soulac

Derra wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Fortunately I can´t cast more than three cloaks anyway..
It will hit magicka nbs surely hard tho and I´ll just wait until something similar happens to shields and heals (BoL).
I mean if no other defense ability is spammable, why should shields and heals be an exception.
Just a matter of time until people QQ about the next thing.

Next penality is for shield!

Oh i´m so glad we can point anyone having problems with shields to the wonderful shieldbreaker set zenimax just introduced with their latest major patch for this occasion

I'd rather slot a skill to counter shields than being forced to drop a set bonus and run Stamina based just to counter shields.
Also Shield breaker isn't removing your shields, only the one attacking you is bypassing them with a little amount of damage.
I mean cloak is awesome sometimes, but if it's all you got you will notice how frustrating this skill actually is.
Mark, burning embers, Shadow image, Caltrops, flare, potion which is not even visible, Shadow, talons, cinderstorm and I could continue with that list. Now imagine you get also a penalty for using something without knowing if it actually works.
Just cause someone is using Shield breaker doesn't make your shields useless, but someone using a simple potion can negate my defense against a whole group.

I actually don't care if cloak gets a penalty as long as they fix it completely and apply penalties to all other defense abilities.
You all speak of balancing, so I hope you see that issue as well.

Stamina Build defense:
Heal - heal over time and spamming it won't bring you back to full health or any close of it
Block - no stamina Reg
Dodge - cost increase
Cloak - most certainly gets a penalty to avoid multiple usage in a row

Compared to Templar heals (which makes him tanky while healing the whole group) and Magicka shields like hardened ward or healing ward this defense is limited - you won't be able to spam them infinite.

If you hold pressure on me I will run out of ressources.
If I hold pressure on you, but you're specced for huge heals or shields, nothing will happen to you - you won't run out of ressources.
Of course this game isn't balanced around 1v1, but by using this argument I could upload a video of every single group fight showing the ground covered in Caltrops, making cloak the most useless skill in eso.

Anyway, it's just a matter of time until the QQ goes over to shields and breath of life and I'll wait for this very moment.

I agree with all of that. Still there is nothing they can do about shields now that they´ve introduced shieldbreaker (which should have been a magica set all along bc you know - harness/dampen). If they happen to revisit shieldbreaker i´m the first one to ask them to make shields not stackable anymore.
As long as that set is in play i´ll point anyone complaining about shields into that general direction because that´s how zos decided to balance shields.

The problem with cloak is not that it´s a defensive skill but rather it´s defense + mobility/initiative combined. The problem lies with the mobility/initiative part of the skill because every aoe counter to it is not really a counter if you can´t use it bc the nightblade is hiding between enemy NPCs in IC. Cloak is far less of a problem in open world pvp. But for IC it´s hell.

Thanks to shield breaker you're able to hit the enemies health directly with a flat amount of damage, but you give up a set bonus and have to run a stamina build.
Also it's totally fine for Stamina builds being able to counter shields and I'll explain why.
The only counter against dodge roll are timed attacks and Magicka based skills, meaning Stamina builds won't counter each other.
Why should a Magicka build be able to counter other Magicka builds and stamina one, but Stamina neither of them?

Anyway, Shield breaker is like Teleport strike, heavy attacks or Magicka AoEs to dodge and it still got a penalty.
You basically say shields got a counter, so it shouldn't get nerfed, but why should cloak get a nerf then?
I'm running shield breaker since willows will take ages until it get fixed and have yet to see anyone dying to my light attacks, while I killed many nightblades by simply marking them. Of course I'm not running bow, but you expect me to slot a set and equip a Bow to counter your shields while you can break my cloaks and wait until I run out of Magicka?
Shield breaker is not enough, shields and heals needs a penalty as do all other defense abilities - at least that's what you want otherwise the community wouldn't complain about every single one.

One skill is a problem only in IC, but nerf it overall, right?
Mobs breaking my cloak isn't enough, right?
If you can't spam cloak you will notice how annoying it actually is, but balancing a skill around dlc content?
In that case I want mines nerfed since they're not a problem outside of IC, but are incredible strong inside.

Nerf cloak, alright - but fix all abilities breaking it without being AoEs or actual counters first.
Also add penalties to shields and heals to make all defense abilities for all possible builds equal,meaning that someone who spams them will run out of ressources.
That's what you all want, isn't it? Offense being the best defense. Stacking one stat, get highest dmg and apply pressure until the enemy will run out of ressources which is exactly what will happen.

Since I play with a extremely limited dodge anyway I'm already used to stuff like that, but it's gonna be funny that see Sorcs and Templars dying one by another.

Derra

Soulac wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Fortunately I can´t cast more than three cloaks anyway..
It will hit magicka nbs surely hard tho and I´ll just wait until something similar happens to shields and heals (BoL).
I mean if no other defense ability is spammable, why should shields and heals be an exception.
Just a matter of time until people QQ about the next thing.

Next penality is for shield!

Oh i´m so glad we can point anyone having problems with shields to the wonderful shieldbreaker set zenimax just introduced with their latest major patch for this occasion

I'd rather slot a skill to counter shields than being forced to drop a set bonus and run Stamina based just to counter shields.
Also Shield breaker isn't removing your shields, only the one attacking you is bypassing them with a little amount of damage.
I mean cloak is awesome sometimes, but if it's all you got you will notice how frustrating this skill actually is.
Mark, burning embers, Shadow image, Caltrops, flare, potion which is not even visible, Shadow, talons, cinderstorm and I could continue with that list. Now imagine you get also a penalty for using something without knowing if it actually works.
Just cause someone is using Shield breaker doesn't make your shields useless, but someone using a simple potion can negate my defense against a whole group.

I actually don't care if cloak gets a penalty as long as they fix it completely and apply penalties to all other defense abilities.
You all speak of balancing, so I hope you see that issue as well.

Stamina Build defense:
Heal - heal over time and spamming it won't bring you back to full health or any close of it
Block - no stamina Reg
Dodge - cost increase
Cloak - most certainly gets a penalty to avoid multiple usage in a row

Compared to Templar heals (which makes him tanky while healing the whole group) and Magicka shields like hardened ward or healing ward this defense is limited - you won't be able to spam them infinite.

If you hold pressure on me I will run out of ressources.
If I hold pressure on you, but you're specced for huge heals or shields, nothing will happen to you - you won't run out of ressources.
Of course this game isn't balanced around 1v1, but by using this argument I could upload a video of every single group fight showing the ground covered in Caltrops, making cloak the most useless skill in eso.

Anyway, it's just a matter of time until the QQ goes over to shields and breath of life and I'll wait for this very moment.

I agree with all of that. Still there is nothing they can do about shields now that they´ve introduced shieldbreaker (which should have been a magica set all along bc you know - harness/dampen). If they happen to revisit shieldbreaker i´m the first one to ask them to make shields not stackable anymore.
As long as that set is in play i´ll point anyone complaining about shields into that general direction because that´s how zos decided to balance shields.

The problem with cloak is not that it´s a defensive skill but rather it´s defense + mobility/initiative combined. The problem lies with the mobility/initiative part of the skill because every aoe counter to it is not really a counter if you can´t use it bc the nightblade is hiding between enemy NPCs in IC. Cloak is far less of a problem in open world pvp. But for IC it´s hell.

Thanks to shield breaker you're able to hit the enemies health directly with a flat amount of damage, but you give up a set bonus and have to run a stamina build.
Also it's totally fine for Stamina builds being able to counter shields and I'll explain why.
The only counter against dodge roll are timed attacks and Magicka based skills, meaning Stamina builds won't counter each other.
Why should a Magicka build be able to counter other Magicka builds and stamina one, but Stamina neither of them?

Anyway, Shield breaker is like Teleport strike, heavy attacks or Magicka AoEs to dodge and it still got a penalty.
You basically say shields got a counter, so it shouldn't get nerfed, but why should cloak get a nerf then?
I'm running shield breaker since willows will take ages until it get fixed and have yet to see anyone dying to my light attacks, while I killed many nightblades by simply marking them. Of course I'm not running bow, but you expect me to slot a set and equip a Bow to counter your shields while you can break my cloaks and wait until I run out of Magicka?
Shield breaker is not enough, shields and heals needs a penalty as do all other defense abilities - at least that's what you want otherwise the community wouldn't complain about every single one.

One skill is a problem only in IC, but nerf it overall, right?
Mobs breaking my cloak isn't enough, right?
If you can't spam cloak you will notice how annoying it actually is, but balancing a skill around dlc content?
In that case I want mines nerfed since they're not a problem outside of IC, but are incredible strong inside.

Nerf cloak, alright - but fix all abilities breaking it without being AoEs or actual counters first.
Also add penalties to shields and heals to make all defense abilities for all possible builds equal,meaning that someone who spams them will run out of ressources.
That's what you all want, isn't it? Offense being the best defense. Stacking one stat, get highest dmg and apply pressure until the enemy will run out of ressources which is exactly what will happen.

Since I play with a extremely limited dodge anyway I'm already used to stuff like that, but it's gonna be funny that see Sorcs and Templars dying one by another.

Shieldbreaker is a vaible counter to shields. However stamina never had the giant issue against shields magica users have. Resources for shields are finite if you don´t run 2500+ magica reneration.

Shields are still a much bigger problem for magica build than they´ve ever been for stamina in the first place because resources for magica v magica are really infinite thanks to harness magica.

Also with the counters to cloak is: They are not vaible apart from detect potions. I´d love to have something like caltrops on a magica build. But wait i´d kill myself because of the million npc´s the nightblade could just drag into my aoe in ic. I would gladly give up a 5p a setbonus to get a cloakbreaker. Apart from that there is no functional counter for cloak on a range build.

Try to look at it this way: You´re arguing from a point where there are builds in existance that can circumvent cloak because of abilities not working as intended. I´m arguing from a point where i´ve been playing a build since 1.5 against which cloak happens to work 100% reliable - ranged magica build that is. While it may have issues i can assure you it´s a million times worse than any shieldstack or teleporting sorc when it´s actually working.

Francescolg

did they fix the bugged NB ultimate or skill, that had the synergy bugged? So that you could roll dodge and reactivate it, to make it last longer then a synergy is meant to be used?

Soulac

Derra wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Fortunately I can´t cast more than three cloaks anyway..
It will hit magicka nbs surely hard tho and I´ll just wait until something similar happens to shields and heals (BoL).
I mean if no other defense ability is spammable, why should shields and heals be an exception.
Just a matter of time until people QQ about the next thing.

Next penality is for shield!

Oh i´m so glad we can point anyone having problems with shields to the wonderful shieldbreaker set zenimax just introduced with their latest major patch for this occasion

I'd rather slot a skill to counter shields than being forced to drop a set bonus and run Stamina based just to counter shields.
Also Shield breaker isn't removing your shields, only the one attacking you is bypassing them with a little amount of damage.
I mean cloak is awesome sometimes, but if it's all you got you will notice how frustrating this skill actually is.
Mark, burning embers, Shadow image, Caltrops, flare, potion which is not even visible, Shadow, talons, cinderstorm and I could continue with that list. Now imagine you get also a penalty for using something without knowing if it actually works.
Just cause someone is using Shield breaker doesn't make your shields useless, but someone using a simple potion can negate my defense against a whole group.

I actually don't care if cloak gets a penalty as long as they fix it completely and apply penalties to all other defense abilities.
You all speak of balancing, so I hope you see that issue as well.

Stamina Build defense:
Heal - heal over time and spamming it won't bring you back to full health or any close of it
Block - no stamina Reg
Dodge - cost increase
Cloak - most certainly gets a penalty to avoid multiple usage in a row

Compared to Templar heals (which makes him tanky while healing the whole group) and Magicka shields like hardened ward or healing ward this defense is limited - you won't be able to spam them infinite.

If you hold pressure on me I will run out of ressources.
If I hold pressure on you, but you're specced for huge heals or shields, nothing will happen to you - you won't run out of ressources.
Of course this game isn't balanced around 1v1, but by using this argument I could upload a video of every single group fight showing the ground covered in Caltrops, making cloak the most useless skill in eso.

Anyway, it's just a matter of time until the QQ goes over to shields and breath of life and I'll wait for this very moment.

I agree with all of that. Still there is nothing they can do about shields now that they´ve introduced shieldbreaker (which should have been a magica set all along bc you know - harness/dampen). If they happen to revisit shieldbreaker i´m the first one to ask them to make shields not stackable anymore.
As long as that set is in play i´ll point anyone complaining about shields into that general direction because that´s how zos decided to balance shields.

The problem with cloak is not that it´s a defensive skill but rather it´s defense + mobility/initiative combined. The problem lies with the mobility/initiative part of the skill because every aoe counter to it is not really a counter if you can´t use it bc the nightblade is hiding between enemy NPCs in IC. Cloak is far less of a problem in open world pvp. But for IC it´s hell.

Thanks to shield breaker you're able to hit the enemies health directly with a flat amount of damage, but you give up a set bonus and have to run a stamina build.
Also it's totally fine for Stamina builds being able to counter shields and I'll explain why.
The only counter against dodge roll are timed attacks and Magicka based skills, meaning Stamina builds won't counter each other.
Why should a Magicka build be able to counter other Magicka builds and stamina one, but Stamina neither of them?

Anyway, Shield breaker is like Teleport strike, heavy attacks or Magicka AoEs to dodge and it still got a penalty.
You basically say shields got a counter, so it shouldn't get nerfed, but why should cloak get a nerf then?
I'm running shield breaker since willows will take ages until it get fixed and have yet to see anyone dying to my light attacks, while I killed many nightblades by simply marking them. Of course I'm not running bow, but you expect me to slot a set and equip a Bow to counter your shields while you can break my cloaks and wait until I run out of Magicka?
Shield breaker is not enough, shields and heals needs a penalty as do all other defense abilities - at least that's what you want otherwise the community wouldn't complain about every single one.

One skill is a problem only in IC, but nerf it overall, right?
Mobs breaking my cloak isn't enough, right?
If you can't spam cloak you will notice how annoying it actually is, but balancing a skill around dlc content?
In that case I want mines nerfed since they're not a problem outside of IC, but are incredible strong inside.

Nerf cloak, alright - but fix all abilities breaking it without being AoEs or actual counters first.
Also add penalties to shields and heals to make all defense abilities for all possible builds equal,meaning that someone who spams them will run out of ressources.
That's what you all want, isn't it? Offense being the best defense. Stacking one stat, get highest dmg and apply pressure until the enemy will run out of ressources which is exactly what will happen.

Since I play with a extremely limited dodge anyway I'm already used to stuff like that, but it's gonna be funny that see Sorcs and Templars dying one by another.

Shieldbreaker is a vaible counter to shields. However stamina never had the giant issue against shields magica users have. Resources for shields are finite if you don´t run 2500+ magica reneration.

Shields are still a much bigger problem for magica build than they´ve ever been for stamina in the first place because resources for magica v magica are really infinite thanks to harness magica.

Also with the counters to cloak is: They are not vaible apart from detect potions. I´d love to have something like caltrops on a magica build. But wait i´d kill myself because of the million npc´s the nightblade could just drag into my aoe in ic. I would gladly give up a 5p a setbonus to get a cloakbreaker. Apart from that there is no functional counter for cloak on a range build.

Try to look at it this way: You´re arguing from a point where there are builds in existance that can circumvent cloak because of abilities not working as intended. I´m arguing from a point where i´ve been playing a build since 1.5 against which cloak happens to work 100% reliable - ranged magica build that is. While it may have issues i can assure you it´s a million times worse than any shieldstack or teleporting sorc when it´s actually working.

Just cause you don't got a build able to counter to cloak, doesn't mean it's working fine and should receive a nerf.
Cloak is next to dodge the most unreliable skill I know.
Imagine your Shield suddenly disappearing - just poof and gone - that's how it likes to play with cloak.
You either get it through and you're happy that you were able to avoid an attack or it just breaks cause it hates you.
It's already impossible to cloak against DKs using burning embers and even enemy NBs using shadow image hitting you at least once out of it.

Nerf cloak, fix the counters, let me see who's using a potion and most importantly nerf shields and heals as well.
Cloak got counters, many counters working great for people I play against and is still bugged. On top of that you want a penalty.
I mean your lovely streak got a counter, but does it make the skill useless? You still move away and stun enemies on the way.
As a stamina build using cloak I can't simply move millions of miles away using cloak, that's not how it works.

Tell me, what's your problem with Shield breaker and a penalty against shields?
Shield breaker isn't removing your shields or anything like that, so where's your problem?
If you're so against it, how can you expect a nightblade to accept a penalty for using a still buggy ability with countless of counters.

I mean if I have to be a stamina build to get through your shields, why can't I expect from you to slot Stamina based AoEs to break cloak?
Caltrops is surely expensive, but so is my cloak as Stamina Build.

On my solo build I'm not running any AoE, no detect Pots and no mark. NBs are able to escape, but none of them were actually able to kill me.
These NBs get away sure, but what do they achieve with it? Right, nothing.
Of course I'm defending cloak since it's my main class ability and I'm not against any penalty or whatever, but I'm against the fact that my class should've limited access to defense while all Sorcs jump around and use their shields like it costs nothing.

If you don't see that all defense abilities should've a penalty regardless of their counters then this discussion is useless, but I don't see why shields or heals should be an exception.

Seth_Black

one thing...
Nightblade ...sneaky *** who's designed to stab you in the back.
I'm playing this class since beginning and it was chosen simply because it's probably hardest class to master in the game.
Sorc can be sometimes tricky ...but still nightblade requires A LOT of work.

As stamina:
You can't spam cloak as stamina build, most players use it just as run away option and use it very carefully to avoid draining all magicka in 2-3 uses. Or it's used as ability to simply remove negative effects from time to time. That's about it

As magicka:
You can spam cloak... BUT you're draining resources pretty badly when in combat.
Sure ...out of combat you can cloak all the way from one side of Cyrodiil to the other no problem,
but since combat starts you need to use it carefully.
Some of the NB's abilities REQUIRE stealth so apply specific effects (like Concealed Weapons), so ability to re-enter stealth in combat is simply essential.

On the other side just look at class abilities we don't have knock back abilities like crystal frags, stone fist or javelin
it needs to be balanced somehow.
Base attack abilities are not dealing massive amounts of damage and it's pretty hard to play non-stealthy using mostly class abilities to attack. Dots dots dots ...that's about it ...and execute.

Stamina NB's use in majority WEAPON skills with just few class skills like ambush, killer's blade or relentless focus
to improve their damage ...but essentially they don't rely a lot on the class abilities to deal damage.

Magicka NB's can use more of the class abilities but they don't deal any impressive damage till you start re-entering stealth for the damage and crit bonuses.

There MUST be a way to fight all classes differently: don't let sorc bolt away, don't let templar heal ...and don't let NB cloak!
This is the whole point of having classes and their strong/weak points.
So many people complained about perma-rolling stam NB and it got hit by the nerf hammer for everyone.
Taking cloak down (especially after it FINALLY works as intended) will destroy magicka builds completely.
It will tear down use of class abilities and magicka NB's will run only with staff skills on bar and some buffs/dots
from class tree.

Complaining is simple, but for once try to PLAY or understand other classes (in best case learn to play them all)
so you can see all strong/weak points and work out your own way to fight specific abilities.

Thinking like this: 'I get killed by someone -> nerf him' is pretty stupid and just shows your lack of skill.
Maybe we should start thread for bats to NOT STACK then? So vamp zergs won't have that ONLY ability they use to kill people. In short vamp group fight looks like this: fake attack (charge ulti), fake attack (charge ulti), fake attack (charge ulti), fake attack (charge ulti), CHARGE! (bats bats bats bats bats), RETREAT! ...really smart and skilled gameplay, but somehow WORKS for dummies out there.
...or standard stacking for all slow DK's who can't catch nor sorcs or NB's... we should remove stacking for it too! YAY!

Without existing diversity game will become boring grind based on spamming one ability in big groups.
You MUST know your class and know your enemy! Stop complaining and L2P properly

Araxleon

God ZOS game balance is hitting such dumb levels, why not add a update that makes heals,cloaks,shields rolls and everything else cost more per use....
CP and lack of caps are causing this not skills.

I could make a thread and complain about balance or CP and it could get 1000likes
Wouldnt change a thing.

Its not even about cloak its about the steps forward and back...

ZOS has like one more update to actually do a good change overall across the board and balance things, (PVP)
Im a tolerante mofo, but at this point it feels like ZOS wants people to not play there game

One last thing, make WB cost more per use k thx.

babanovac

Seth_Black wrote: »

Complaining is simple, but for once try to PLAY or understand other classes (in best case learn to play them all)
so you can see all strong/weak points and work out your own way to fight specific abilities.

For once try to understand that NBs are the only class that can CHOOSE not to die in PvP. We all agree that we should have class diversity but this is simply too much. Either allow all classes to have an escape mechanic, or remove this one from the NB.

Wollust

babanovac wrote: »

Seth_Black wrote: »

Complaining is simple, but for once try to PLAY or understand other classes (in best case learn to play them all)
so you can see all strong/weak points and work out your own way to fight specific abilities.

For once try to understand that NBs are the only class that can CHOOSE not to die in PvP. We all agree that we should have class diversity but this is simply too much. Either allow all classes to have an escape mechanic, or remove this one from the NB.

Sorcs are the only class with a proper shield. Either allow all classes to have a proper shield, or remove this one from the Sorc.

Templars are the only class with a proper self heal, Either allow all classes to have a proper selfheal, or remove this one from the Templar.

DKs are the only class with a reflect ability. Either allow all classes to have a proper reflect, or remove this one from the DK.

Should I continue? Or do you see how stupid such an argument is?

babanovac

Wollust wrote: »

F*** it, let's all play magicka Templars and just stand there spamming Breath of Life, as any other defensive skills seems to be forbid

babanovac wrote: »

Seth_Black wrote: »

Complaining is simple, but for once try to PLAY or understand other classes (in best case learn to play them all)
so you can see all strong/weak points and work out your own way to fight specific abilities.

For once try to understand that NBs are the only class that can CHOOSE not to die in PvP. We all agree that we should have class diversity but this is simply too much. Either allow all classes to have an escape mechanic, or remove this one from the NB.

Sorcs are the only class with a proper shield. Either allow all classes to have a proper shield, or remove this one from the Sorc.

Templars are the only class with a proper self heal, Either allow all classes to have a proper selfheal, or remove this one from the Templar.

DKs are the only class with a reflect ability. Either allow all classes to have a proper reflect, or remove this one from the DK.

Should I continue? Or do you see how stupid such an argument is?

Do you really think these are the same? you are comparing skills in game with the ability to NOT DIE. Sorry, but i don't agree that these are equivalent.

Seth_Black

babanovac wrote: »

Seth_Black wrote: »

Complaining is simple, but for once try to PLAY or understand other classes (in best case learn to play them all)
so you can see all strong/weak points and work out your own way to fight specific abilities.

For once try to understand that NBs are the only class that can CHOOSE not to die in PvP. We all agree that we should have class diversity but this is simply too much. Either allow all classes to have an escape mechanic, or remove this one from the NB.

ONLY? ONLY!?!

Sorc - bolt away -> vanish potion -> stealth (chose not to die)
DK - shields up -> run (while snaring enemies - use damn TALONS!) -> and KILL while they try to chase you
In dk's case FIGHT & KILL is 'chose not to die' option (you can always go for vanish+stam+speed potion too with previous rapid maneuvers)
Templar - HEAL yourself = chose not to die (magicka templar is almost impossible to solo kill if you're SKILLED enough :P )

I'm playing ALL classes and I've got ways for every single class to remove myself from combat.
Only 1 vs zerg = death in ALL cases.

Aunatar

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

Thanks for listening! @Derra looks like giving feedback works sometimes!

Araxleon

Soulac wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Fortunately I can´t cast more than three cloaks anyway..
It will hit magicka nbs surely hard tho and I´ll just wait until something similar happens to shields and heals (BoL).
I mean if no other defense ability is spammable, why should shields and heals be an exception.
Just a matter of time until people QQ about the next thing.

Next penality is for shield!

Oh i´m so glad we can point anyone having problems with shields to the wonderful shieldbreaker set zenimax just introduced with their latest major patch for this occasion

I'd rather slot a skill to counter shields than being forced to drop a set bonus and run Stamina based just to counter shields.
Also Shield breaker isn't removing your shields, only the one attacking you is bypassing them with a little amount of damage.
I mean cloak is awesome sometimes, but if it's all you got you will notice how frustrating this skill actually is.
Mark, burning embers, Shadow image, Caltrops, flare, potion which is not even visible, Shadow, talons, cinderstorm and I could continue with that list. Now imagine you get also a penalty for using something without knowing if it actually works.
Just cause someone is using Shield breaker doesn't make your shields useless, but someone using a simple potion can negate my defense against a whole group.

I actually don't care if cloak gets a penalty as long as they fix it completely and apply penalties to all other defense abilities.
You all speak of balancing, so I hope you see that issue as well.

Stamina Build defense:
Heal - heal over time and spamming it won't bring you back to full health or any close of it
Block - no stamina Reg
Dodge - cost increase
Cloak - most certainly gets a penalty to avoid multiple usage in a row

Compared to Templar heals (which makes him tanky while healing the whole group) and Magicka shields like hardened ward or healing ward this defense is limited - you won't be able to spam them infinite.

If you hold pressure on me I will run out of ressources.
If I hold pressure on you, but you're specced for huge heals or shields, nothing will happen to you - you won't run out of ressources.
Of course this game isn't balanced around 1v1, but by using this argument I could upload a video of every single group fight showing the ground covered in Caltrops, making cloak the most useless skill in eso.

Anyway, it's just a matter of time until the QQ goes over to shields and breath of life and I'll wait for this very moment.

I agree with all of that. Still there is nothing they can do about shields now that they´ve introduced shieldbreaker (which should have been a magica set all along bc you know - harness/dampen). If they happen to revisit shieldbreaker i´m the first one to ask them to make shields not stackable anymore.
As long as that set is in play i´ll point anyone complaining about shields into that general direction because that´s how zos decided to balance shields.

The problem with cloak is not that it´s a defensive skill but rather it´s defense + mobility/initiative combined. The problem lies with the mobility/initiative part of the skill because every aoe counter to it is not really a counter if you can´t use it bc the nightblade is hiding between enemy NPCs in IC. Cloak is far less of a problem in open world pvp. But for IC it´s hell.

Thanks to shield breaker you're able to hit the enemies health directly with a flat amount of damage, but you give up a set bonus and have to run a stamina build.
Also it's totally fine for Stamina builds being able to counter shields and I'll explain why.
The only counter against dodge roll are timed attacks and Magicka based skills, meaning Stamina builds won't counter each other.
Why should a Magicka build be able to counter other Magicka builds and stamina one, but Stamina neither of them?

Anyway, Shield breaker is like Teleport strike, heavy attacks or Magicka AoEs to dodge and it still got a penalty.
You basically say shields got a counter, so it shouldn't get nerfed, but why should cloak get a nerf then?
I'm running shield breaker since willows will take ages until it get fixed and have yet to see anyone dying to my light attacks, while I killed many nightblades by simply marking them. Of course I'm not running bow, but you expect me to slot a set and equip a Bow to counter your shields while you can break my cloaks and wait until I run out of Magicka?
Shield breaker is not enough, shields and heals needs a penalty as do all other defense abilities - at least that's what you want otherwise the community wouldn't complain about every single one.

One skill is a problem only in IC, but nerf it overall, right?
Mobs breaking my cloak isn't enough, right?
If you can't spam cloak you will notice how annoying it actually is, but balancing a skill around dlc content?
In that case I want mines nerfed since they're not a problem outside of IC, but are incredible strong inside.

Nerf cloak, alright - but fix all abilities breaking it without being AoEs or actual counters first.
Also add penalties to shields and heals to make all defense abilities for all possible builds equal,meaning that someone who spams them will run out of ressources.
That's what you all want, isn't it? Offense being the best defense. Stacking one stat, get highest dmg and apply pressure until the enemy will run out of ressources which is exactly what will happen.

Since I play with a extremely limited dodge anyway I'm already used to stuff like that, but it's gonna be funny that see Sorcs and Templars dying one by another.

Shieldbreaker is a vaible counter to shields. However stamina never had the giant issue against shields magica users have. Resources for shields are finite if you don´t run 2500+ magica reneration.

Shields are still a much bigger problem for magica build than they´ve ever been for stamina in the first place because resources for magica v magica are really infinite thanks to harness magica.

Also with the counters to cloak is: They are not vaible apart from detect potions. I´d love to have something like caltrops on a magica build. But wait i´d kill myself because of the million npc´s the nightblade could just drag into my aoe in ic. I would gladly give up a 5p a setbonus to get a cloakbreaker. Apart from that there is no functional counter for cloak on a range build.

Try to look at it this way: You´re arguing from a point where there are builds in existance that can circumvent cloak because of abilities not working as intended. I´m arguing from a point where i´ve been playing a build since 1.5 against which cloak happens to work 100% reliable - ranged magica build that is. While it may have issues i can assure you it´s a million times worse than any shieldstack or teleporting sorc when it´s actually working.

Just cause you don't got a build able to counter to cloak, doesn't mean it's working fine and should receive a nerf.
Cloak is next to dodge the most unreliable skill I know.
Imagine your Shield suddenly disappearing - just poof and gone - that's how it likes to play with cloak.
You either get it through and you're happy that you were able to avoid an attack or it just breaks cause it hates you.
It's already impossible to cloak against DKs using burning embers and even enemy NBs using shadow image hitting you at least once out of it.

Nerf cloak, fix the counters, let me see who's using a potion and most importantly nerf shields and heals as well.
Cloak got counters, many counters working great for people I play against and is still bugged. On top of that you want a penalty.
I mean your lovely streak got a counter, but does it make the skill useless? You still move away and stun enemies on the way.
As a stamina build using cloak I can't simply move millions of miles away using cloak, that's not how it works.

Tell me, what's your problem with Shield breaker and a penalty against shields?
Shield breaker isn't removing your shields or anything like that, so where's your problem?
If you're so against it, how can you expect a nightblade to accept a penalty for using a still buggy ability with countless of counters.

I mean if I have to be a stamina build to get through your shields, why can't I expect from you to slot Stamina based AoEs to break cloak?
Caltrops is surely expensive, but so is my cloak as Stamina Build.

On my solo build I'm not running any AoE, no detect Pots and no mark. NBs are able to escape, but none of them were actually able to kill me.
These NBs get away sure, but what do they achieve with it? Right, nothing.
Of course I'm defending cloak since it's my main class ability and I'm not against any penalty or whatever, but I'm against the fact that my class should've limited access to defense while all Sorcs jump around and use their shields like it costs nothing.

If you don't see that all defense abilities should've a penalty regardless of their counters then this discussion is useless, but I don't see why shields or heals should be an exception.

Soulac you free to make a video on PTS on all the ways to counter cloak? I feel like it wont be enough XD people dont realize

Seth_Black

babanovac wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

F*** it, let's all play magicka Templars and just stand there spamming Breath of Life, as any other defensive skills seems to be forbid

babanovac wrote: »

Seth_Black wrote: »

Complaining is simple, but for once try to PLAY or understand other classes (in best case learn to play them all)
so you can see all strong/weak points and work out your own way to fight specific abilities.

For once try to understand that NBs are the only class that can CHOOSE not to die in PvP. We all agree that we should have class diversity but this is simply too much. Either allow all classes to have an escape mechanic, or remove this one from the NB.

Sorcs are the only class with a proper shield. Either allow all classes to have a proper shield, or remove this one from the Sorc.

Templars are the only class with a proper self heal, Either allow all classes to have a proper selfheal, or remove this one from the Templar.

DKs are the only class with a reflect ability. Either allow all classes to have a proper reflect, or remove this one from the DK.

Should I continue? Or do you see how stupid such an argument is?

Do you really think these are the same? you are comparing skills in game with the ability to NOT DIE. Sorry, but i don't agree that these are equivalent.

You just simply don't understand what he's referring to.
FUNDAMENTAL CLASS ABILITIES - something that makes you unique among other classes.
Without it every NB can shout: 'you want to take my cloak? give me sorc's shields, templar's heals and dk's flap flaps and I'll keep playing.

If ZOS will destroy cloak you'll see how many players will just simply quit the game since there will be no challenge to play this class any more.

Knootewoot

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

Ah, what are we worrying about. A future update? That will be somewhere in 2020.