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Cloak Needs A Nerf
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Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Septimus_Magna wrote: »Cloak is very good in IC and pvp, no doubt. The last thing I want is a big nerf for Cloak because its the key ability for NBs.
There are multiple counter against Cloak but one counter is not working properly imo. If you hit a cloaked NB with AOE damage he becomes visible but he is able to re-cloak instantly. This removes AOE damage as reliable counter because the duration in which the NB is visible is too short, this makes it impossible to fight NBs without detect pots or radiant mage light.
It would seem fair to give a short (2-3 second) debuff in which Cloak doesnt make the NB invisible when he's un-cloaked by AOE damage. Cost increase is probably not fair for all the stamina NBs so I think this would be a better solution.
I'm curious why cost increase is not fair for stamina NB for cloak but cost increase is fair on Streak for stamina sorc?
I also could definitely get on board with AOE dmg preventing NB from immediately recloaking for a few seconds. That is definitely my biggest problem with using Thundering Presence as a counter to Cloak.Edited by Erock25 on September 21, 2015 3:02PMYou earned the 500 LOLs badge.
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Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭In the IC world where death means you actually lose something, cloak must be nerfed. My cloak counter on my stam sorc is thundering presence and detect pots and still any competent NB can guaranteed get away as they please. Also don't overlook the ability to perma cloak for both stam and magicka NB through the mob infested areas with ease.
You might be doing this wrong, thundering presence + wrecking blow + optional caltrops works amazing. A stamina NB will be forced to dodge and flee, a magicka NB will be forced to shield spam until he runs out of stam or magicka. Stam Sorc is a great hard counter to NB this patch, at least it's been a stand-out for me among stamina builds.
Thundering Presence's range is so pitiful that it seems that I have to be literally standing on top of the NB to break cloak and even then it is only for a split second before he cloaks up again. Why WB? I've started quite a few WB casts on NB only to have them dodge roll and cloak away and it cancels my attack. Caltrops are nice, but only as a defensive tool against Cloak. As I said, I was talking specifically about a NB fleeing and Caltrops cost too much to spam cast it so unless the NB decides to re-enter my caltrop field, it does nothing to prevent them from fleeing. I never had an issue with people being able to guaranteed escape before IC, but now it actually means something because of TV stone mechanic.Edited by Erock25 on September 21, 2015 3:04PMYou earned the 500 LOLs badge.
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OdinForge✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭In the IC world where death means you actually lose something, cloak must be nerfed. My cloak counter on my stam sorc is thundering presence and detect pots and still any competent NB can guaranteed get away as they please. Also don't overlook the ability to perma cloak for both stam and magicka NB through the mob infested areas with ease.
You might be doing this wrong, thundering presence + wrecking blow + optional caltrops works amazing. A stamina NB will be forced to dodge and flee, a magicka NB will be forced to shield spam until he runs out of stam or magicka. Stam Sorc is a great hard counter to NB this patch, at least it's been a stand-out for me among stamina builds.
Thundering Presence's range is so pitiful that it seems that I have to be literally standing on top of the NB to break cloak and even then it is only for a split second before he cloaks up again. Why WB? I've started quite a few WB casts on NB only to have them dodge roll and cloak away and it cancels my attack. Caltrops are nice, but only as a defensive tool against Cloak. As I said, I was talking specifically about a NB fleeing and Caltrops cost too much to spam cast it so unless the NB decides to re-enter my caltrop field, it does nothing to prevent them from fleeing. I never had an issue with people being able to guaranteed escape before IC, but now it actually means something because of TV stone mechanic.
The best kind of NB will use cloak for mobility around its target. The range on thundering is a perfect natural counter. I watch stamina builds take advantage of movement speed and shuffle to escape snares and roots, making escape trivial for them. Add in some mobs to cause chaos, sharp turns and it's no worse than cloak for escape.
Cloak becomes a problem only when a good NB is using it to control your fight. And caltrops doesn't cost too much for a properly setup stam build for spamming reasons. Thundering prevents a NB from juking through you, and caltrops covers a wider net. The combinations of both of these allows WB the time it needs to work.Edited by OdinForge on September 21, 2015 3:12PMThe Age of Wrobel.1 -
Rylana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This is the post where Rylana cuts through the nightblades posting in defense of their OP skills BS.
1. Rylana has a nightblade, was actually my first live toon, and am very good with it. Kailiana, meet her sometime. That out of the way, so you cant say i am so other profession X, we move to step 2.
2. There are no hard counters outside of its own class to nightblade cloak that are a. reliable, b. readily available as needed. I shall explain furthe (from the very gankers perspective these "counters" are used on).
Radiant Magelight - Takes up a bar slot, the detect radius is laughably bad, especially vs a nightblade with any sort of speed buff active. If the nightblade is Bosmer or Khajiit, you will lose detection on them at 6 meters, just at the fringe of their own melee range to hit you with another concealed weapon to stun you yet again.
Detect Potions - 12 second duration on a 33 second cooldown. If I am a smart nightblade, I watch for the moment you pop that detect pot, hit speed and roll maybe twice, find some los, count to 10, and then I have you at my complete mercy for the next 30 seconds, and will still have five seconds to escape you to reset the fight before you have a chance to pop another detect.
Caltrops/Revealing Flare - Ground AoE, dont make me laugh, if you catch me with these, I am a terrible player, not just a terrible nightblade.
DoTs - Dark cloak morph, try again
Piercing Mark - yeah and I just did it back to you, mister nightblade. And guess what, only another nightblade can even do this, this isnt a counter to me at all. If anything it just makes you about to get slammed for everything I have to get the mark off of me. Good job killing yourself. Too bad youre not a templar, DK, or Sorc, theyd be totally boned. Oh thats right, not even you can cloak now either, guess its time to see who does more damage - protip - I probably do.
3. So now that we have debunked the commonly quoted coutners to cloak, lets get in to the class skills that were nerfed that used to be quoted as the comparable class skills to justify cloak.
Breath of Life - the most expensive class skill in the templar tree, nerfed by 50 percent in this latest major update in PvP, has a half second animation time before the heal, heals for less than half the damage a well specced nightblade will put out in one heavy attack, which uses no resources anyway. Yeah this is such a good counter to cloak. I mean healing through damage until one is out of magicka, and then getting obliterated by the nightblade that never ran out themselves.
Streak/Ball of Lightning - Each cast within four seconds increases the cost by 50 percent, stackable. on a 1 for 1 basis this skill is just screwed vs a cloak spammer. Additionally, the original counters to the skill still exist (gap closers primarily, hard CC forcing single direction movement being another). This ability never stopped nightblades from killing sorcs, it just sometimes got the sorc into better position to kill the nightblade, which is why they cried about it. Hmm better positioning, sounds like what i use cloak for.
Dragonknight - Green Dragon Blood - it literally heals for 2k now. It is worst than BoL. I will just leave this one alone any further as the skill isnt even slotted anymore.
4. Competent gankblades do not use cloak to run, they use it as a disorient/sight line controller. Typical tactic is to cloak through someone into their blind spot so they cant just keep spamming wrecking blow or destro heavies, and nailing them from behind. In a prolonged fight I might cast cloak 5-10 times to accomplish this, vs a competent player,. However they will always die or I never will because even if they somehow start to gain the upper hand, I could just rally/vigor (stamina) or healing ward (magicka) cloak cloak, reset fight and either come back full resources or walk away from a good player that I dont feel like taking an hour to get a combat decision on. The argument a nightblade that is cloaking is running away is absolutely hysterical. I WANT YOU TO THINK IM RUNNING SO THE CONCEALED WEAPON TO THE FACE HURTS THAT MUCH MORE, MISTER NO BLOCK.
Now, are we done with the BS, or do I need to post some more about how underpowered the poor nightblade class has always been. Sabre Ali is right, cloak needs a limiter put in place on it.@rylanadionysis == Closed Beta Tester October 2013 == Retired October 2016 == Uninstalled @ One Tamriel Release == Inactive Indefinitely
Ebonheart Pact: Lyzara Dionysis - Sorc - AR 37 (Former Empress of Blackwater Blade and Haderus) == Shondra Dionysis - Temp - AR 23 == Arrianaya Dionysis - DK - AR 17
Aldmeri Dominion: Rylana Dionysis - DK - AR 25 == Kailiana - NB - AR 21 == Minerva Dionysis - Temp - AR 21 == Victoria Dionysis - Sorc - AR 13
Daggerfall Covenant: Dannika Dionysis - DK - AR 21 == The Catman Rises - Temp - AR 15 (Former Emperor of Blackwater Blade)
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Hydrocodone✭✭✭Hydrocodone wrote: »Respect, one of the few NBs who can be honest. It's a shame to see all the NBs try to derail a thread by one of the most respected players in the game. Cloak should be an escape and if you decide to re engage you should not be able to get away so easily. The combination of cloak spam, the nerf to detect pots and stam regen is too much. I have to sit there while the NB cloaks for the 7th time and decide if I'd rather hold block and get no regen or take an unmitigated WB from stealth.
Don't tell me what I should use cloak for.
I'm using cloak to avoid attacks and counter with a stun or a heavy attack. ]
]Exactly my point. I mainly solo so I see this several times per play session. Stamblades could do this in 1.6 because of high burst dmg and sharpened trait that was widely abused. Although I understand cloak had issues then Fear had it's own problems where it was unbreakable very often and the animation was a bit slow. Very few NBs could cloak more 2x so if fear didn't bug you had a shot to make the stealthier regret his actions and I'm the guy that /lol at the NBs I use to wreck after a failed gank. I was also the guy that chased sorcs 1.6 and if I caught them more often then not they died.
Post IC dropping Fear was fixed from what I can tell, enter the cloak spammer. It goes like this: NB with high burst, WB or heavy attacks from stealth or not, the so the defender reacts possibly using a heal or pot gets their buffs up if they aren't already gets a good hit on the NB and starts licking his chops" I got you now you turd". Poof NB cloaks and the other guy knows what is coming next, more of the same. Rinse and repeat until I'm out of stamina and magicka. I always have 4 dif pots slotted . Tri health and weapon pwr , invisible/speed and wait for it ...detection pots.
Not all NBs are scumbags that wait till your fighting 3 mobs to jump you but even in a 1v1 the NB 99/100 times gets the first attack. If they start to lose the advantage they cloak 2 feet from your face and if the 8 are watching over you then you may have a detection pot ready but chances are you'll be feared or dragged in to mobs only for the NB to cloak again. At this point the defender has 3 choices. #1 stand there like a fool holding block until the NB attacks again from stealth rinse and repeat until your dead. #2 don't hold block and get your regen and leave your self wide open to the WB from stealth. #3 unsub and log out.
I'm 1 of the few who use Immovable HA skill and Stone fist which is a 3 sec hard CC. It works well if timed right but it's not enough against an average skilled magic built NB with just enough stamina to WB or heavy attack from stealth only to have them cloak over and over and toss in a fear here or there. Bottom line they have the advantage from start to finish and it removes all skill from the equation. Threads like this will continue until this is addressed alongside all the threads about IC Magicka NB build threads and pawnage vids.Edited by Hydrocodone on September 21, 2015 3:30PM0 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭In the IC world where death means you actually lose something, cloak must be nerfed. My cloak counter on my stam sorc is thundering presence and detect pots and still any competent NB can guaranteed get away as they please. Also don't overlook the ability to perma cloak for both stam and magicka NB through the mob infested areas with ease.
You might be doing this wrong, thundering presence + wrecking blow + optional caltrops works amazing. A stamina NB will be forced to dodge and flee, a magicka NB will be forced to shield spam until he runs out of stam or magicka. Stam Sorc is a great hard counter to NB this patch, at least it's been a stand-out for me among stamina builds.
Thundering Presence's range is so pitiful that it seems that I have to be literally standing on top of the NB to break cloak and even then it is only for a split second before he cloaks up again. Why WB? I've started quite a few WB casts on NB only to have them dodge roll and cloak away and it cancels my attack. Caltrops are nice, but only as a defensive tool against Cloak. As I said, I was talking specifically about a NB fleeing and Caltrops cost too much to spam cast it so unless the NB decides to re-enter my caltrop field, it does nothing to prevent them from fleeing. I never had an issue with people being able to guaranteed escape before IC, but now it actually means something because of TV stone mechanic.
The best kind of NB will use cloak for mobility around its target. The range on thundering is a perfect natural counter. I watch stamina builds take advantage of movement speed and shuffle to escape snares and roots, making escape trivial for them. Add in some mobs to cause chaos, sharp turns and it's no worse than cloak for escape.
Cloak becomes a problem only when a good NB is using it to control your fight. And caltrops doesn't cost too much for a properly setup stam build for spamming reasons. Thundering prevents a NB from juking through you, and caltrops covers a wider net. The combinations of both of these allows WB the time it needs to work.
My post was specifically talking about NB being able to escape so please quote someone else if you want to discuss how to counter a NB actively using cloak to engage its target. I know very well that caltrops is a nice coverage for preventing a NB from attacking you. I disagree completely that movement buff and shuffle is just as good as cloak for escaping.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
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OdinForge✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭In the IC world where death means you actually lose something, cloak must be nerfed. My cloak counter on my stam sorc is thundering presence and detect pots and still any competent NB can guaranteed get away as they please. Also don't overlook the ability to perma cloak for both stam and magicka NB through the mob infested areas with ease.
You might be doing this wrong, thundering presence + wrecking blow + optional caltrops works amazing. A stamina NB will be forced to dodge and flee, a magicka NB will be forced to shield spam until he runs out of stam or magicka. Stam Sorc is a great hard counter to NB this patch, at least it's been a stand-out for me among stamina builds.
Thundering Presence's range is so pitiful that it seems that I have to be literally standing on top of the NB to break cloak and even then it is only for a split second before he cloaks up again. Why WB? I've started quite a few WB casts on NB only to have them dodge roll and cloak away and it cancels my attack. Caltrops are nice, but only as a defensive tool against Cloak. As I said, I was talking specifically about a NB fleeing and Caltrops cost too much to spam cast it so unless the NB decides to re-enter my caltrop field, it does nothing to prevent them from fleeing. I never had an issue with people being able to guaranteed escape before IC, but now it actually means something because of TV stone mechanic.
The best kind of NB will use cloak for mobility around its target. The range on thundering is a perfect natural counter. I watch stamina builds take advantage of movement speed and shuffle to escape snares and roots, making escape trivial for them. Add in some mobs to cause chaos, sharp turns and it's no worse than cloak for escape.
Cloak becomes a problem only when a good NB is using it to control your fight. And caltrops doesn't cost too much for a properly setup stam build for spamming reasons. Thundering prevents a NB from juking through you, and caltrops covers a wider net. The combinations of both of these allows WB the time it needs to work.
My post was specifically talking about NB being able to escape so please quote someone else if you want to discuss how to counter a NB actively using cloak to engage its target. I know very well that caltrops is a nice coverage for preventing a NB from attacking you. I disagree completely that movement buff and shuffle is just as good as cloak for escaping.
There are many stam players out there flying in the face of this statement. The grass always seems greener on the other side, especially when you're unable to see the benefits to the side you're currently on.
Movement speed plus the ability to negate snares, underrated. It doesn't matter if you're visible, if no one can stop you or catch you.Edited by OdinForge on September 21, 2015 3:40PMThe Age of Wrobel.0 -
CtrlAltDlt✭✭✭Yeah lets completely screw stamina NBs.. first it was dodge roll nerf, on top of cost increase of rally, loss of some stamina regen, and now you want to nerf our defensive mechanism? People please..PC NA - jeazzy
stamblade outnumbered pvp vol 1. youtu.be/h1ONYfpAJJ8
Stamblade outbumbered pvp vol 2. No cheese youtu.be/rN4_aRVMvWw2 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭In the IC world where death means you actually lose something, cloak must be nerfed. My cloak counter on my stam sorc is thundering presence and detect pots and still any competent NB can guaranteed get away as they please. Also don't overlook the ability to perma cloak for both stam and magicka NB through the mob infested areas with ease.
You might be doing this wrong, thundering presence + wrecking blow + optional caltrops works amazing. A stamina NB will be forced to dodge and flee, a magicka NB will be forced to shield spam until he runs out of stam or magicka. Stam Sorc is a great hard counter to NB this patch, at least it's been a stand-out for me among stamina builds.
Thundering Presence's range is so pitiful that it seems that I have to be literally standing on top of the NB to break cloak and even then it is only for a split second before he cloaks up again. Why WB? I've started quite a few WB casts on NB only to have them dodge roll and cloak away and it cancels my attack. Caltrops are nice, but only as a defensive tool against Cloak. As I said, I was talking specifically about a NB fleeing and Caltrops cost too much to spam cast it so unless the NB decides to re-enter my caltrop field, it does nothing to prevent them from fleeing. I never had an issue with people being able to guaranteed escape before IC, but now it actually means something because of TV stone mechanic.
The best kind of NB will use cloak for mobility around its target. The range on thundering is a perfect natural counter. I watch stamina builds take advantage of movement speed and shuffle to escape snares and roots, making escape trivial for them. Add in some mobs to cause chaos, sharp turns and it's no worse than cloak for escape.
Cloak becomes a problem only when a good NB is using it to control your fight. And caltrops doesn't cost too much for a properly setup stam build for spamming reasons. Thundering prevents a NB from juking through you, and caltrops covers a wider net. The combinations of both of these allows WB the time it needs to work.
My post was specifically talking about NB being able to escape so please quote someone else if you want to discuss how to counter a NB actively using cloak to engage its target. I know very well that caltrops is a nice coverage for preventing a NB from attacking you. I disagree completely that movement buff and shuffle is just as good as cloak for escaping.
There are many stam players out there flying in the face of this statement. The grass always seems greener on the other side, especially when you're unable to see the benefits to the side you're currently on.
Movement speed plus the ability to negate snares, underrated. It doesn't matter if you're visible, if no one can stop you or catch you.
But what about tab target and your own movement buffs to catch the person fleeing? I'm not disagreeing that movement speed plus snare immunity is nice for getting away, but it is ludicrous to suggest it is as powerful as cloak for an escape.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
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Takes-No-Prisoner✭✭✭✭✭
✭Noticed Dark Flare does not work on a NB going into Cloak, and the hit box off of Purifying Light brings NB out of Cloak. But they can re cloak again just as fast. Only thing I can do on my Templar is either; use an AoE or Purifying Light again to keep them tagged. The detect pot nerf is pretty noticeable, but having the potion is still helpful for removing a NB stealth buffs. Haven't seen this yet, but I must ask, does Puncturing Sweeps / Biting Jabs take them out of Cloak?
I also noticed snare will stay on the NB even when they are cloaked. I got hit by caltrops on my NB and went into cloak after getting out of the AoE and even with Dark Cloak I still had the snare. This is bad for a NB, like seriously bad news since he cannot escape quickly for about 5 seconds. Pretty easy to gun him down if you tag him with snare and chase after he cloaks.
A good time to slot Vampires bane?
Edited by Takes-No-Prisoner on September 21, 2015 4:29PM0 -
Poxheart✭✭✭✭✭Does the OP know that a cloaked NB is a NB who's not doing anything but running away? He's not hurting, neither stunning his enemies. The skill has almost no use besides being a escape, except in the case of the combo cloak + veiled strike, which requiers a lot of skill to be used with the always in-movement enemies in cyrodil.
You do realize that being able to disappear & reset the fight at will is doing something? Good nightblades use cloak to set their opponent up for killing attacks. Bad nightblades use it only to run away. If you were to go through this thread (and others like it) you can identify the good nightblades from the bad by how they use the skill.
Do you realize that you are saying exactly what I want you to say? You don't know how to deal with cloak. So, instead of looking for a way to deal with it, you come here crying "Nerf!!! Nerf!!!
The game changed, that's all. It is hight time you used those forgotten skills that nobody used some weeks ago.
I'm not sure where you got the impression that I don't know how to deal with cloak, but I've been playing a magicka nightblade for over a year now so I know how powerful the ability is; how to best use it, and how to counter it. Don't let that stop you misinterpreting my posts because your replies just continue to highlight your foolishness.Unsubbed and no longer playing, but still checking the Alliance War forum for the lulz.
Pox Dragon Knight
Poxheart Nightblade
The Murder Hobo Dragon Knight - Blackwater Blade
Knights of the WhiteWolf0 -
Poxheart✭✭✭✭✭This is the post where Rylana cuts through the nightblades posting in defense of their OP skills BS.
Now, are we done with the BS, or do I need to post some more about how underpowered the poor nightblade class has always been. Sabre Ali is right, cloak needs a limiter put in place on it.
I don't often agree with what you post, but this is the exception.Unsubbed and no longer playing, but still checking the Alliance War forum for the lulz.
Pox Dragon Knight
Poxheart Nightblade
The Murder Hobo Dragon Knight - Blackwater Blade
Knights of the WhiteWolf1 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Stamina builds cant cloak more then a few times before mana is depleted, they should be real careful not to nerf this in a way that ruins even that little cloak use that they have.
Magicka nbs however can spam this endlessly, and that might be a problem.
PC EU
PvP only2 -
Moglijuana✭✭✭✭✭Instead of a nerf, ZOS should just give out a tutorial on how to get better at learning how to play...lol
It's pretty amazing on how bad people are at deciding where to look when a NB goes stealth. "Yea, OF COURSE he must be running the same direction I am going! WTF?? He's not here??"
Seriously, play the class and just learn on how the positioning works. Once you can guess where the NB is going to hide (probably not right in front of you, you noob) you will be able to catch him once his 4 crucial cloaks are spammed (Yes I can literally only use cloak FOUR TIMES, think about that...)
On my other classes I absolutely LOVE chasing NB's because I can usually guess where they are going. It's literally their only defense now btw since the dodge roll nerf. They have no shields. They're usually wearing light/medium armor. They are not meant to stand there and get hit. That would defeat the entire purpose of the class. Besides, with the 50% dmg nerf its hard af to gank w.o using most of your resources ANYWAYS.
If a NB is cloaked, WHO CARES? Is he hitting you? prob not. Is he running away? probably, just wait for him to come back and be ready for it. Or better yet, stop being such a pansy and do something about it. The game literally has PLENTY of options to deal with cloaks. If you played a NB you would know this.
Very good players usually catch me 75% of time. Do I get mad about it? No. They did a good job on preventing me from escaping. That makes the game exciting. The rest of these instant gratification COD noobs? Yea just get better please. PUHLEASE.2 -
killingspreeb16_ESO✭✭✭✭Does the OP know that a cloaked NB is a NB who's not doing anything but running away? He's not hurting, neither stunning his enemies. The skill has almost no use besides being a escape, except in the case of the combo cloak + veiled strike, which requiers a lot of skill to be used with the always in-movement enemies in cyrodil.
You do realize that being able to disappear & reset the fight at will is doing something? Good nightblades use cloak to set their opponent up for killing attacks. Bad nightblades use it only to run away. If you were to go through this thread (and others like it) you can identify the good nightblades from the bad by how they use the skill.
Do you realize that you are saying exactly what I want you to say? You don't know how to deal with cloak. So, instead of looking for a way to deal with it, you come here crying "Nerf!!! Nerf!!!
The game changed, that's all. It is hight time you used those forgotten skills that nobody used some weeks ago.
I'm not sure where you got the impression that I don't know how to deal with cloak, but I've been playing a magicka nightblade for over a year now so I know how powerful the ability is; how to best use it, and how to counter it. Don't let that stop you misinterpreting my posts because your replies just continue to highlight your foolishness.
if you find a way to add a penality that no destroy the ability for stamina NB well im fine,add% increase cost like many player are asking is not the good one,i can cloak alredy 3 time as stamina NB (just use cloak no fear etc)add a cost increase will kill the ability for the stamina NB0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Stamina builds cant cloak more then a few times before mana is depleted, they should be real careful not to nerf this in a way that ruins even that little cloak use that they have.
Magicka nbs however can spam this endlessly, and that might be a problem.
Actually it depends how you build and on your number of CP points. With Willows Path set and drinks (popular combo nowadays), you can hit over 1.5k magicka regen easily and with enough points to plump into Magician you can reduce the cost a lot.
I've seen stamblades Cloak more times than I can Streak as a Magicka Sorc. The ones that go full damage spec obviously can cloak less but that's on them.
If you build full damage stamina sorc you'd be lucky if you managed to get a 2nd cast out of bolt escape. I see no-one getting oversensitive about that. And they shouldn't really since it was your choice to go full damage stamina. It's only reasonable that you can't expect to be able to get more than a couple of casts out of such a strong magicka skill.
You shouldn't be able to have your pie and eat it too.EU | PC | AD1 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Stamina builds cant cloak more then a few times before mana is depleted, they should be real careful not to nerf this in a way that ruins even that little cloak use that they have.
Magicka nbs however can spam this endlessly, and that might be a problem.
I know of a few stamina NB players who have endless cloak with in combat regens.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points0 -
Rylana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »
And one of the 1 percenter players as well. Ali has always been good, if he is saying something is overpowered, you can bet your ass it is.@rylanadionysis == Closed Beta Tester October 2013 == Retired October 2016 == Uninstalled @ One Tamriel Release == Inactive Indefinitely
Ebonheart Pact: Lyzara Dionysis - Sorc - AR 37 (Former Empress of Blackwater Blade and Haderus) == Shondra Dionysis - Temp - AR 23 == Arrianaya Dionysis - DK - AR 17
Aldmeri Dominion: Rylana Dionysis - DK - AR 25 == Kailiana - NB - AR 21 == Minerva Dionysis - Temp - AR 21 == Victoria Dionysis - Sorc - AR 13
Daggerfall Covenant: Dannika Dionysis - DK - AR 21 == The Catman Rises - Temp - AR 15 (Former Emperor of Blackwater Blade)
Forum LOL Champion (retired) == Black Belt in Ballista-Fu == The Last Vice Member == Praise Cheesus == Electro-Goblin2 -
Rylana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »Stamina builds cant cloak more then a few times before mana is depleted, they should be real careful not to nerf this in a way that ruins even that little cloak use that they have.
Magicka nbs however can spam this endlessly, and that might be a problem.
Actually it depends how you build and on your number of CP points. With Willows Path set and drinks (popular combo nowadays), you can hit over 1.5k magicka regen easily and with enough points to plump into Magician you can reduce the cost a lot.
I've seen stamblades Cloak more times than I can Streak as a Magicka Sorc. The ones that go full damage spec obviously can cloak less but that's on them.
If you build full damage stamina sorc you'd be lucky if you managed to get a 2nd cast out of bolt escape. I see no-one getting oversensitive about that. And they shouldn't really since it was your choice to go full damage stamina. It's only reasonable that you can't expect to be able to get more than a couple of casts out of such a strong magicka skill.
You shouldn't be able to have your pie and eat it too.
Dont even need drinks mate. Dark cloak is the only magicka ability (besides pre-engagement buffup) on my stamblades bars. I have 15k magicka with food (I use blue stam/magicka food), 50 odd points into cost reduction. I can cloak eight times without even considering regen, on a stamina/weapon damage focused nightblade. I simply use roll/cloak back and forth as needed. Always accounting for the roll dodge cost increase, watch thy green feets.
>_> People think the magicka nightblades are bad, the stam ones are even worse, they hit a hell of a lot harder, aaaand have more self healing options (rally end heal is still insanely high, 7k or more + the hot + vigor = LOL). Throw in a 35k+ stam pool and cost redux/regens maxed out and its infinite resourceblade. You can do the same with magicka of course, but they dont hit "quite" as hard out the gate. Stamblade will kill you in two-three hits still, with far more windows of opportunity. (especially when the "reset and escape" resource is not tied whatsoever into the resource that does all the damage)
The point of course is that I am able to do all of this, while still cloaking at will. That is a problem.
Funniest part is I am still using my 1.6 v14 setup (which to be fair is the same build ive used since 1.3 when stamina was crappy with gear set upgrades each season, been using the DW/2Hander stam build before it was "cool") and mowing down people with it. All because they cant heal themselves or bolt/roll infinitely anymore. Nightblades paradise.Edited by Rylana on September 21, 2015 6:20PM@rylanadionysis == Closed Beta Tester October 2013 == Retired October 2016 == Uninstalled @ One Tamriel Release == Inactive Indefinitely
Ebonheart Pact: Lyzara Dionysis - Sorc - AR 37 (Former Empress of Blackwater Blade and Haderus) == Shondra Dionysis - Temp - AR 23 == Arrianaya Dionysis - DK - AR 17
Aldmeri Dominion: Rylana Dionysis - DK - AR 25 == Kailiana - NB - AR 21 == Minerva Dionysis - Temp - AR 21 == Victoria Dionysis - Sorc - AR 13
Daggerfall Covenant: Dannika Dionysis - DK - AR 21 == The Catman Rises - Temp - AR 15 (Former Emperor of Blackwater Blade)
Forum LOL Champion (retired) == Black Belt in Ballista-Fu == The Last Vice Member == Praise Cheesus == Electro-Goblin2 -
Hydrocodone✭✭✭Big surprise the first 1v1 I get into post patch is a Cloak spammer cloaking and attacking from stealth at least 10 times in the 1-2 min fight while dumping all aggro on all the mobs onto me. The OP has played NB since launch and I would consider him an authority on the matter. All through 1.6 you NBs had your time to shine and now? Well it's a complete joke now. The joke is on those of us who refused to jump on the NB bandwagon. ZOS should consider changing the name of the game to Elder Stealth online or Elder Snares Online.1
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Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Septimus_Magna wrote: »Cloak is very good in IC and pvp, no doubt. The last thing I want is a big nerf for Cloak because its the key ability for NBs.
There are multiple counter against Cloak but one counter is not working properly imo. If you hit a cloaked NB with AOE damage he becomes visible but he is able to re-cloak instantly. This removes AOE damage as reliable counter because the duration in which the NB is visible is too short, this makes it impossible to fight NBs without detect pots or radiant mage light.
It would seem fair to give a short (2-3 second) debuff in which Cloak doesnt make the NB invisible when he's un-cloaked by AOE damage. Cost increase is probably not fair for all the stamina NBs so I think this would be a better solution.
I´m playing a sorc and while i don´t agree with how the shieldbreaker set works and find it´s implementation lackluster at best i DO agree something had to be done about shields (sadly against magica classes as a magica class you´re still [snip] because for some reason zos decided the set needed to be stam based).
I also feel the streak nerf was somewhat justified. It now takes a whole lot more effort to disengage as a sorc and there are certain points in fights where you just can´t save yourself.
Both of my key class abilities have been havily gutted this patch and while i might not agree on how it was done i think something was needed for the sake of balance.
What remains are cloak (which is kind of a special case because as nightblades are pointing out it IS indeed the classes core defensive skill BUT it also is the most powerful movement tool in the game - especially in ic but also for cyrodiil 65% cloakspeed for magica NB anyone?). The combination of those two elements is what makes nerfing cloak tricky but something has to be done about it because it is currently simply too powerful.
The last defensive ability that has to be worked at after cloak will be breath of life.This is the post where Rylana cuts through the nightblades posting in defense of their OP skills BS.
Now, are we done with the BS, or do I need to post some more about how underpowered the poor nightblade class has always been. Sabre Ali is right, cloak needs a limiter put in place on it.
I don't often agree with what you post, but this is the exception.
I have so second that. It´s a brilliant summary by rylana.Edited by ZOS_KatP on February 14, 2018 8:30PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
MrTarkanian48✭✭✭✭Regen is low in PVP... If an NB specs heavily into regen to permacloak then that's probably all they are good at. They don't have much burst. Any permacloaking magicka NB is not running the shield breaker set, so throw up your shields, drop your mines, and let them cloak away. They aren't taking your stones.
I am a Stamblade with full Hundings Rage and Ashen Grip VR13 invested in Weapon Damage and Max Stamina and can't seem to burst anyone down even with wrecking blow (ugh gasp he uses WB!) before I have no stamina left since the last update. I can only imagine that perma-cloaking Magicka NB's hit for next to nothing.
Stam NB's with any sort of burst can only cloak 2-4 times. Maybe more if you have hundreds of CP. They can't block, they can't roll, they can't shield. Nerfing Cloak will kill stam NB since they will maybe be able to cast it twice.
As an NB, I die alot. I'm not sypher running around face-rolling people. Most players aren't. I actually like when I run into an NB because I personally find them easier to kill then most. I could understand this if magicka NB's were just rolling over people everywhere because of this, but I don't think that is the case.
I have never had a post on here requesting nerfs, and you will never see me post one. If I thought a build was powerful I would build another character in that race/class and use it myself. Maybe over time people should try out every class and learn to play with them all. It doesn't take overly long to hit vet ranks... Build one of each and that way you can switch it up when the patch hits and run with whatever you see as best.
This last patch was just a nerf to the entire game. Tanks are probably going to go the way of the dodo (not that there were an over abundance already). If you beat every class down eventually no one is going to want to even play the game anymore. That or all you will have is one class running around. We already have bigger zergs than ever because people feel like they can't be effective solo anymore.
I really liked this game before IC. I still like it after IC but not as much. If you don't like your build or think another is more competitive, than switch it up and build something new. But please stop asking for nerfs. I think its fair to say that most people aren't particularly happy about the last change, and I can only imagine it getting worse.
Wood Elf Stam NB (PVP)
Redguard Stam Sorc (PVP)
Altmer NB (DPS)
Imperial DK (Tank)
Redguard DK (DPS)
Altmer Templar (Healer)
EP - PS43 -
ZOS_GinaBrunoCommunity ManagerHi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.
Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.24 -
RunAway✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.
Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.
I play a Sorc and I can safely say that shadow cloak does NOT need a nerf. There are detect pots, binds and DoT's that all solve the problem. The actual problem is the people, like the OP, who want 1 build that counters everything in the game. If you continually go around nerfing everything, you'll eventually ruin the game. As you said, there are already ways to counter shadow cloak, if people prefer to use health/Stamina/Magicka pots, that's their decision and they sacrifice a way to detect cloaked NB's, or stealthed enemies...
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Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.
Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.
I play a Sorc and I can safely say that shadow cloak does NOT need a nerf. There are detect pots, binds and DoT's that all solve the problem. The actual problem is the people, like the OP, who want 1 build that counters everything in the game. If you continually go around nerfing everything, you'll eventually ruin the game. As you said, there are already ways to counter shadow cloak, if people prefer to use health/Stamina/Magicka pots, that's their decision and they sacrifice a way to detect cloaked NB's, or stealthed enemies...
If you think DoT's solve the problem of Cloak perhaps you should read the tooltip for cloak.Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube5
good news 
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