Cloak Needs A Nerf
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RunAway✭✭✭
If you think DoT's solve the problem of Cloak perhaps you should read the tooltip for cloak.
So caltrops doesn't solve the problem? Curse? Etc..
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nordickittyhawk✭✭✭✭✭@ZOS_GinaBrunoZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.
Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.
If you actually do that you will 100% ruin this class for me! STOP LISTENING TO THESE PEOPLE ZENIMAX!!. the skill is buggy as it it... -.- how about nerfing shields then.... Sick of pvp babies crying cause they suck..
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Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.
Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.
A subtle approach is always the best. Don't over-nerf.
Although I would highly recommend that you rework the Flare skill to have some utility beyond just revealing cloaked players. We have only 10 skill slots in this game. Nobody (or at least very few people) slot a situational skill that only works in one scenario against one class.
It's all good talking about counters to Cloak but the counters (detect pots excluded and imo they should not work at all) are more punishing to the person that uses them than the NB. Gap closers (counter to Bolt Escape) and melee attacks (counter to Reflective Scales) fit into everyone's build without having to make any sacrifices unlike Radiant Magelight where you have to:- Give up two slots simply to counter a NB
- Forego on the Inner Light which is de facto the morph needed for PvE.
Do something about the perma-cloak, remove detects pots, give us workable skills that counter it that are not completely situational.Edited by Maulkin on September 21, 2015 7:39PMEU | PC | AD2 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭nordickittyhawk wrote: »@ZOS_GinaBruno
If you actually do that you will 100% ruin this class for me! STOP LISTENING TO THESE PEOPLE ZENIMAX!!. the skill is buggy as it it... -.- how about nerfing shields then.... Sick of pvp babies crying cause they suck..
Yes, the skill was bugged at launch and got man, I will say tweaks, over the past year. If the tooltip listed everything the skill does... But seriously, cloak is one of the few class defensive skills that didn't get a resource hit in the patch, and if nb's need to spam it to stay alive, I guess I could use the same response people throw at sorcs who use shields.
Also, @ZOS_GinaBruno, thank you for providing insight into what the team is thinking about, more things like this would go very far in helping the community function. That said I would like to add, the combat team needs to be careful how they do this. The nerfs to bolt escape made the skill frustrating to use on a non-magicka focused sorc yet the ones who focus on it can still bolt very effectively (even last night I watched them run to the hills), whatever change happens needs to alleviate the frustration of having an opponent that can simply remove themselves from the field, without taking the ability to use the skill away from some builds. I would suggest that while balancing the skill the team looks at lowering the number of hard counters for cloak but providing more reliable soft counters that are more widely available.1 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭There are detect pots, binds and DoT's that all solve the problem. The actual problem is the people, like the OP, who want 1 build that counters everything in the game.If you think DoT's solve the problem of Cloak perhaps you should read the tooltip for cloak.
1) The OP is a NB
2) DoT's don't pop you out of cloak
3) Curse has been changed and it doesn't pop you out of cloak any more
No offence meant, but form 2 posts within 5 mins, it's obvious to me that you don't seem to know the game well enough to offer an opinion on Cloak atm.EU | PC | AD3 -
RunAway✭✭✭mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »
1) The OP is a NB
2) DoT's don't pop you out of cloak
3) Curse has been changed and it doesn't pop you out of cloak any more
No offence meant, but form 2 posts within 5 mins, it's obvious to me that you don't seem to know the game well enough to offer an opinion on Cloak atm.
Curse does actually break cloak...Isn't that ironic?
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eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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I play a Sorc and I can safely say that shadow cloak does NOT need a nerf. There are detect pots, binds and DoT's that all solve the problem. The actual problem is the people, like the OP, who want 1 build that counters everything in the game. If you continually go around nerfing everything, you'll eventually ruin the game. As you said, there are already ways to counter shadow cloak, if people prefer to use health/Stamina/Magicka pots, that's their decision and they sacrifice a way to detect cloaked NB's, or stealthed enemies...
I agree. This is the stupidest nerf yet. I play a sorc and I have no trouble seeing cloaked targets because I slot radiant magelight. Please do not make cloak completely useless again. This is simply a L2P issue, and I think most PvPers will agree this game has been dumbed down enough.:trollin:9 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.
Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.
Just make sure to take into account the fact cloak is meant to be used repeatedly (even if not consecutively) during a fight. It is the nightblade's source of damage mitigation through the shadow barrier passive(which only lasts four seconds), and a damage buff in the case of shadowy disguise.Edited by Sharee on September 21, 2015 7:41PM0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
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Curse does actually break cloak...Isn't that ironic?
No, not at all. Since 2.1 hit, any damaging effect applied on the NB before he cloaked will no longer pop him out of cloak afterwards.
The NB gets hit by the Curse and takes the damage, but he does not become visible.EU | PC | AD0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
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Curse does actually break cloak...Isn't that ironic?
Yeah but it took me about 5 minutes on my NB to get the right timing so curse pops you out once and then you instantly recloak without the sorc having a chance to apply a new one. Saying a targeted 3.5s timer ability is a vaible counter to an ability that lets your enemy do guesswork where you actually are is nothing but laughable.
Edit: Also if you´re a better than average NB you will let that curse pop inside the next NPC grp available because it´s an aoe and screw over the sorc bigtime.Edited by Derra on September 21, 2015 7:46PM<Noricum>
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Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
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Just make sure to take into account the fact cloak is meant to be used repeatedly (even if not consecutively) during a fight. It is the nightblade's source of damage mitigation through the shadow barrier passive(which only lasts four seconds), and a damage buff in the case of shadowy disguise.
Do want to point out shadow barrier procs on all shadow skill use, not just exiting stealth/cloak.0 -
melodeath✭✭✭i like how now another abbility is beeing decided to be messed with while the core issues are still at play..
how about return soft caps ?
how about remove cp system so theres is atleast a fair fight instead of the numerous times where 1 beats the other for simply having more cp (happends alot)
there are specs in this game that can litterly max out their damage while at the same time maxing out their defence in the process.
if this game wasnt such a bloody spam fest with infinite resources and an endless grind than i would dare to bet that alot of people wouldnt be whining...including myself.
but seeing an overhyped dlc that is supposedly packed with intresting pvp just to log in and see that more *** has been broken than before and seeing that nothing has been done about the actual issues regarding pvp is so demonitaving to keep on playing..
i have no desire to log in again even though i was hyped about the dlc myself.. but having playing this game since the beginning and seeing no progress regarding the most stressfull aspects about pvp is just disgusting..5 -
Defilted✭✭✭✭✭
✭Thank You NB's for standing in front of Sorcs with your criticism shield.
We Sorcs appreciate it.
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RunAway✭✭✭
Yeah but it took me about 5 minutes on my NB to get the right timing so curse pops you out once and then you instantly recloak without the sorc having a chance to apply a new one. Saying a targeted 3.5s timer ability is a vaible counter to an ability that lets your enemy do guesswork where you actually are is nothing but laughable.
It's part of a viable encounter and there are many other abilities that solve the issue. Like I said, people want to run 1 setup and beat everyone.
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Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
I agree. This is the stupidest nerf yet. I play a sorc and I have no trouble seeing cloaked targets because I slot radiant magelight. Please do not make cloak completely useless again. This is simply a L2P issue, and I think most PvPers will agree this game has been dumbed down enough.
Radiant magelight has about ~7m detect range against bosmer/kajiit NBs. I´d like to see the competent player where it´s not a waste of two skillslots.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
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I'm not sure where you got the impression that I don't know how to deal with cloak, but I've been playing a magicka nightblade for over a year now so I know how powerful the ability is; how to best use it, and how to counter it. Don't let that stop you misinterpreting my posts because your replies just continue to highlight your foolishness.
Simple, new patch, new rules. That's all. You can like or dislike them.
Most of the people complaining here dislikes the new rules because they go againts their playing style. There's people specially angry because they have to change their builds to set a NB buster in one of their bars at least. Nevertheless, doesn't it open a window for new builds?
Just a simple exercise, in a world full of Magicka NBs running cloak, who's gonna be the apex predator? Yup, the one who plays different.
Nerfing cloak is not a solution, although I think the sentiment here is to ban cloak from the game rather than the nerf, because, how can you nerf a skill with a so binary feature (seen/unseen)? Adding an exponential casting cost whenever you are in stealth/invis mode such as bolt escape in the class that excels in magicka recovery? Increasing the casting cost? Reducing the skill duration from 2.9 mississippies to 0.9 mississippies? Using the invis mechanics as in Morrowind (%)? Taking out the snare removal?(but you have to give something instead.
The only idea that I could accept is the regeneration halt while invis, but it will make the skill more offesive oriented. And that won't change anything.Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
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I took the wrong road
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Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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i honestly believe it should be a toggle. It should suspend magicka regen while active and cost magicka if the caster moves. Wouldn't that be a fair compromise?
Just make sure to take into account the fact cloak is meant to be used repeatedly (even if not consecutively) during a fight. It is the nightblade's source of damage mitigation through the shadow barrier passive(which only lasts four seconds), and a damage buff in the case of shadowy disguise.
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eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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Radiant magelight has about ~7m detect range against bosmer/kajiit NBs. I´d like to see the competent player where it´s not a waste of two skillslots.
It works just fine for me...L2P maybe?:trollin:1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
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It's part of a viable encounter and there are many other abilities that solve the issue. Like I said, people want to run 1 setup and beat everyone.
What many other abilities are you talking about? Radiant magelight which every nb is thankful if you slot it because you´re wasting 2 slots for no detection range at all or that flare skill with a travel time the NB has to be in a wheelchair to be hit?<Noricum>
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Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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What many other abilities are you talking about? Radiant magelight which every nb is thankful if you slot it because you´re wasting 2 slots for no detection range at all or that flare skill with a travel time the NB has to be in a wheelchair to be hit?
Do you even use radiant magelight? I mean seriously, have you actually used it? Please go away.:trollin:0 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭i like how now another abbility is beeing decided to be messed with while the core issues are still at play..
how about return soft caps ?
how about remove cp system so theres is atleast a fair fight instead of the numerous times where 1 beats the other for simply having more cp (happends alot)
there are specs in this game that can litterly max out their damage while at the same time maxing out their defence in the process.
if this game wasnt such a bloody spam fest with infinite resources and an endless grind than i would dare to bet that alot of people wouldnt be whining...including myself.
but seeing an overhyped dlc that is supposedly packed with intresting pvp just to log in and see that more *** has been broken than before and seeing that nothing has been done about the actual issues regarding pvp is so demonitaving to keep on playing..
i have no desire to log in again even though i was hyped about the dlc myself.. but having playing this game since the beginning and seeing no progress regarding the most stressfull aspects about pvp is just disgusting..
Infinite resources are here to stay it seems. Now ZOS begins the process of running around, adjusting all of the skills as they pop up when having an endless pool of resources make them insane. Can't have each skill used in combat be a decided choice with resource management at its core anymore.1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
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Simple, new patch, new rules. That's all. You can like or dislike them.
Most of the people complaining here dislikes the new rules because they go againts their playing style. There's people specially angry because they have to change their builds to set a NB buster in one of their bars at least. Nevertheless, doesn't it open a window for new builds?
Just a simple exercise, in a world full of Magicka NBs running cloak, who's gonna be the apex predator? Yup, the one who plays different.
The problem with this is simply put: All the counter to cloak are single purpose skills (atleast for magica builds - if there was aoe comparable to steeltornado and caltrops for magica builds i would not be arguing). Cloak is the only skill forcing you so slot specific skills with the only use of countering said skill of a single class.
Either buff the counters and make them useful outside of countering cloak or nerf cloak.<Noricum>
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Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Do you even use radiant magelight? I mean seriously, have you actually used it? Please go away.
I have and it´s not even worth one ability slot on your bar against a nightblade that knows how to play his class outside of stealth ganks.<Noricum>
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Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
RunAway✭✭✭
What many other abilities are you talking about? Radiant magelight which every nb is thankful if you slot it because you´re wasting 2 slots for no detection range at all or that flare skill with a travel time the NB has to be in a wheelchair to be hit?
As someone on the first page said: "Detect Potions, Radiant Magelight, Any form of AoE, Caltrops, Revealing Flare, Piercing Mark"
And to add on to that, any snare. Like Encase for Sorcs, while it doesn't bring NB's out of stealth, it stops them from going anywhere, they dodge roll, you encase again. But, the most prominant and easiest solution (imo) are detect pots.
If you have a NB on NA server, I'd be more than happy to show you that it's possible to stop a NB getting away with cloak, without detect pots.
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Gerardopg✭✭✭It's a good solution to nerf the magicka recovery like in mist form that way the magicka nightblades can not spam it, make the cost stack it's just gonna hurt the stamina nightblades that use it just sometimes the problem with cloack it's just the too many castings in a row.0
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SleepyTroll✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.
Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.
Do you guys even play the game? I have to spam cloak like 10 times until it works. If I'm running around out of combat while being forever invisible who cares. You cant cloak forever in combat, snares keep you in place now so you cant even get anywhere while cloaked, Why do you always listen to the players who cry for nerfs? I really hate when any class gets nerfed. Why don't you guys go work on something useful like your no effort, thrown together CP system, or you know remove vet ranks like you said one year ago.8 -
nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shadow cloak is not a problem atm, it is broken by any aoe, so it is a question of lack of skill if people get fooled by it.4
This discussion has been closed.