Cloak Needs A Nerf
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Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Jprip88b16_ESO wrote: »
if its just useing a counter then streak would not have been nerfed if it was JUST use a gap closer to follow the sorc, at least with streak u chould see where the sorc is goving, a NB spamming cloak u cant see where he is running to
JUST using a gap closer obviously wasn't enough of a counter. The sorcerer only needed to bolt twice to be out of range of any gap closers, the first bolt CC-ed everyone around the sorc so only those blocking a the time of first streak even had a chance to use the gap closer fast enough, if the sorc was streaking in an opposite direction to where his would-be chaser was facing then it was impossible to use gap closer fast enough (pressing a button twice is faster than rotating camera, reacquiring target, and pressing a button), and if there was any lag present, then the sorc was out of range before the gap closer activated even if everything else went perfectly.
Basically, all stars had to be aligned for streak to be countered by a gap closer. Compare that to negating cloak with a caltrop field, which works flawlessly everytime, not to mention how many other counters to cloak there are.Edited by Sharee on September 21, 2015 10:34AM1 -
JUST using a gap closer obviously wasn't enough of a counter. The sorcerer only needed to bolt twice to be out of range of any gap closers, the first bolt CC-ed everyone around the sorc so only those blocking a the time of first streak even had a chance to use the gap closer fast enough, if the sorc was streaking in an opposite direction to where his would-be chaser was facing then it was impossible to use gap closer fast enough (pressing a button twice is faster than rotating camera, reacquiring target, and pressing a button), and if there was any lag present, then the sorc was out of range before the gap closer activated even if everything else went perfectly.
Basically, all stars had to be aligned for streak to be countered by a gap closer. Compare that to negating cloak with a caltrop field, which works flawlessly everytime, not to mention how many other counters to cloak there are.
If just useing a detect potion or caltrop was enough people would not be here now would they? but lets turn your own sight on things around... just start useing other skills then cloak... like your shade, or another of many the other tools NB have in their arsanalEdited by Jprip88b16_ESO on September 21, 2015 10:38AMName. Anish
Race. Orc
Class. Dragonknight
Faction. Daggerfall
EU Mega server1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Jprip88b16_ESO wrote: »
If just useing a detect potion or caltrop was enough people would not be here now would they?
What a wonderful example of circular logic. Make a nerf X thread, then justify why X needs to be nerfed by the mere existence of the thread.2 -
What a wonderful example of circular logic. Make a nerf X thread, then justify why X needs to be nerfed by the mere existence of the thread.
why dont u respond to where i ask why not just use many of the other NB tools? like shade where u can teleport to where u place that shade, like on outpost fights where NB can jump from the top down kill someone and teleport back up into safety.. never seen sorcs do that befor
when we can just USE counters.. then u NB's can just USE other skills then cloak aswell when cloak gets nerfedEdited by Jprip88b16_ESO on September 21, 2015 10:45AMName. Anish
Race. Orc
Class. Dragonknight
Faction. Daggerfall
EU Mega server2 -
Wollust✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Go go go nerf cloak, and shades and fear. And then let's nerf every class skills from every class. Because why should classes be able to do different stuff? This is simply not fair and noobs can't be asked to l2p and use counters.Susano'o
Zerg Squad3 -
Nijjion✭✭✭✭Since DKs got everything OP nerfed... it's only fair other classes get the same.
Sorcs got BE nerfed, which still gives them insane mobility (and CC/projectile blocker not forgetting).
Only fair that NBs OP skill gets nerfed as well but still usable in a way, specifically... why in the worlds a stealth skill would have effect removal is kinda stupid in any MMO.
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Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
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And it fails when the enemy you are fighting uses one of the many counters that cloak has and streak doesn't.
So so so much bias, I'm loving it
Streak has counters too: ranged dmg or gap closers. Or in fact bombard/talons/encase as you can only streak the way you are facing. And it has increasing cost, so inefficient use of your streak makes you go OOM, therefore dead.
If you tell me "well you still teleported forward", I don't care. And your cloak still purged DoTs but that's not saving you if there's someone spamming fields of caltrops everywhere is it? Cause caltrops is the counter like gap-closer is the counter to streak.
Cloak has counters, like streak, but no penalty for inefficient use and spam. A stamina NB can cloak more times than a magicka Sorc can streak these days. A magicka NB can cloak forever. NBs were not ruined back in 1.5 when they could only cloak 5-6 times were they?EU | PC | AD2 -
coolermh✭✭✭I am nightblade and I kill sooooooo many other nightblades using detect potions....Its so easy... just put them in a slot on your quick consumables and you will dominate the nightblade meta.-MrHeid625
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Magika Sorc AD
Stamina NB AD
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Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »
So so so much bias, I'm loving it
Streak has counters too: ranged dmg or gap closers. Or in fact bombard/talons/encase as you can only streak the way you are facing.
None of what you listed causes streak to consume magicka and then do nothing, like caltrops, magelight, mark, or flare do to cloak.
When i can drink a potion and your streak fails if you try to use it to get away from me for 15 seconds, then we can start comparing bolt escape to cloak.
Edited by Sharee on September 21, 2015 12:49PM1 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
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None of what you listed causes streak to consume magicka and then do nothing, like caltrops, magelight, mark, or flare do to cloak. So please, tell me more about counters.
You are either trolling or you don't know your own class very well.
Cloak doesn't do nothing when you stand on caltrops. You might fail to go invisible but it will purge your DoTs from siege or remove a Meteor mark from you etc. You can still cross a breach filled with caltrops and oil by spamming cloak knowing it will purge your oil DoTs from you.
Cloak always has a use even if the invisibility itself is countered. So yeah, tell me more indeed....Edited by Maulkin on September 21, 2015 12:53PMEU | PC | AD2 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
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None of what you listed causes streak to consume magicka and then do nothing, like caltrops, magelight, mark, or flare do to cloak.
When i can drink a potion and your streak fails if you try to use it to get away from me for 15 seconds, then we can start comparing bolt escape to cloak.
Doesn't dark cloak still purge 4 dots on cast, even if you are kicked out of cloak instantly? Also, all these NB's feeling that cloak is their only defense, their only way to stay alive, do you know there are other abilities you can use? In my own experience the only thing that gets me killed on my NB is piercing mark, and that's only because I don't slot purge. Even then if i'm on my stamina nb I can still outrun most anything with all the speed buffs the class has, and their ability to evade, priceless. So if you think (not just the one i'm quoting) that cloak is your only defense, you are acting like a sorc that is only chain casting ward without trying to use any other defense or utility skill, and honestly it is easy to spot the more skilled nb's from the others (hint, hit them with mark and see what they do).1 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I have a DK, a Templar, and a (currently magicka) Nightblade. Guess which one I use the most in imperial city with already more than 100 kills? My magicka Templar. She can gather up and destroy most anything in Imperial City right now and kill the player trying to gank her while she is doing it.
I laugh at most magicka Nightblades that try to kill me. If they don't cloak and run away I will most likely get their stones. There are some that know how to stun-lock and kill me before I can hit breath of life, but you win some you lose some and that is the risk that you take when running solo. I've got almost 50k TV stones in the bank, and have almost hit the 100k achievement, so I think I am winning more than losing.
When I run on my magicka Nightblade I have to choose my battles carefully, and can only pick off a few NPC's at a time and run away from groups, but yeah I can cloak to get away if things get rough. Magicka Nightblade is far from OP. They are pretty easy to kill if they stand and fight, and I don't really care if they run.
Edited by kojou on September 21, 2015 1:04PMPlaying since beta...1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doesn't dark cloak still purge 4 dots on cast, even if you are kicked out of cloak instantly?
Yeah that's a great consolation. "I tried to cloak to evade that incoming zerg and the cloak failed, so now i'm dead, but hey, at least i got all the non-existing DOTs on me cured before i got stomped into the ground"2 -
TheBull✭✭✭✭✭
✭mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »
You are either trolling or you don't know your own class very well.
Cloak doesn't do nothing when you stand on caltrops. You might fail to go invisible but it will purge your DoTs from siege or remove a Meteor mark from you etc. You can still cross a breach filled with caltrops and oil by spamming cloak knowing it will purge your oil DoTs from you.
Cloak always has a use even if the invisibility itself is countered. So yeah, tell me more indeed....
That's what it looks like to you huh? For every 1 time a NB does this 10 more die trying the same thing.Killed by Sunshine 1vX How I see it.
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CP5✭✭✭✭✭
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Yeah that's a great consolation. "I tried to cloak to evade that incoming zerg and the cloak failed, so now i'm dead, but hey, at least i got all the non-existing DOTs on me cured before i got stomped into the ground"
In the famous words of those who praise shield breaker and are telling sorcs who run from combat to l2p, "If there are that many enemies chasing you, you would have died anyway." Also, cloak only forces 4 projectiles to miss, unless ZOS buffed that again. I suggest a NB who is so in love with cloak go back into all the past patch notes and find every buff ZOS gave to the skill and line them all up, seem to recall they added a lot to it to make it "work".1 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
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Yeah that's a great consolation. "I tried to cloak to evade that incoming zerg and the cloak failed, so now i'm dead, but hey, at least i got all the non-existing DOTs on me cured before i got stomped into the ground"
Here's an idea, maybe you shouldn't be so close to a zerg then.
"I tried to bolt away from that incoming zerg but i got 50 incoming Flying Blades and then got Ambush spammed to death, but hey, I at least made it 30m down the road". See, I can say that too. If you don't see the value of purge on Cloak, that's on you not me.
For someone who was QQing about sorc mobility and shields (and the latter is still in fact an issue), you seem to be strangely fine with perma-cloak and not even acknowledge it as a problem. Bias maybe?Edited by Maulkin on September 21, 2015 2:15PMEU | PC | AD4 -
babanovac✭✭✭NBs are the only class who can disengage at will. Yes, when it comes to PvP this makes the class OP.
If you do not consider being the only class that can "choose" not to die as being OP, i'm sorry but you are delusional.
Either give all classes a disengage method, or remove this one from the NB. Even sorcs (mostly) lost theirs with the nerfs to BE.0 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭NBs are the only class who can disengage at will. Yes, when it comes to PvP this makes the class OP.
If you do not consider being the only class that can "choose" not to die as being OP, i'm sorry but you are delusional.
Either give all classes a disengage method, or remove this one from the NB. Even sorcs (mostly) lost theirs with the nerfs to BE.
In my opinion NB's have a nerf coming because of how drastically they stand out from other classes. I have seen since the patch several sorcs shield stack and bolt away so those nerf's can be worked around, however cloak was the only heavy defensive tool that wasn't nerfed with some kind of cost penalty in the last update and I would expect ZOS to put something similar on it, or if they want ZOS will make a cloak breaker set, because they want to use itemization to address balance.0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Detect Potions, Radiant Magelight, Any form of AoE, Caltrops, Revealing Flare, Piercing Mark, NPCs, Roaming Bosses, Charge Attacks. It's your fault for not using the counters available, don't come to the forums and complain about an issue that only affects lazy individuals.
I know for a fact that Yonkit slots Revealing Flare on his bar to hunt down NBs
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Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭At least this thread is a good showcase of ZOS' target audience and what this means for the direction of ESO.1 -
OdinForge✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lava_Croft wrote: »At least this thread is a good showcase of ZOS' target audience and what this means for the direction of ESO.
Pretty much, we'll all soon only have passives that differentiate our classes.The Age of Wrobel.0 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭In the IC world where death means you actually lose something, cloak must be nerfed. My cloak counter on my stam sorc is thundering presence and detect pots and still any competent NB can guaranteed get away as they please. Also don't overlook the ability to perma cloak for both stam and magicka NB through the mob infested areas with ease.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
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Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
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Yeah damn those people spamming Cloak, it's not fair while I spam the abilities that keep me alive! Spam BoL, spam Ward, spam whatever Dragon Knights have left.In the IC world where death means you actually lose something, cloak must be nerfed. My cloak counter on my stam sorc is thundering presence and detect pots and still any competent NB can guaranteed get away as they please. Also don't overlook the ability to perma cloak for both stam and magicka NB through the mob infested areas with ease.
Cloak is my main form of defense and it's used to trigger the Shadow Barrier passive. Want something to be done about Cloak spam? Fine. Then also do something about spamming heals and shields.Edited by Lava_Croft on September 21, 2015 2:49PM1 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭In the IC world where death means you actually lose something, cloak must be nerfed. My cloak counter on my stam sorc is thundering presence and detect pots and still any competent NB can guaranteed get away as they please. Also don't overlook the ability to perma cloak for both stam and magicka NB through the mob infested areas with ease.
Except nobody ever died from a Nightblade's cloak...
I don't know any stamina Nightblade that can permanently cloak...
Most magicka Nightblades I encounter hit like a wet noodle...
Personally I don't see what is wrong with escape mechanics. If a player cloaks or bolt-escapes away its probably because they are not very good at fighting anyway. If I can catch them, then great I get some TV stones, but if I don't then so what? It's not like any of the gear you can buy with it is that good. I prefer fighting with players that can get my heart racing because I don't know if I am going to win or not and having the thrill of combat over chasing noobs that just want to run away from me.
I'm not that I am that great of a player, but I prefer to fight things/players that are hard to fight and can kill me.Playing since beta...1 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
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You do realize that being able to disappear & reset the fight at will is doing something? Good nightblades use cloak to set their opponent up for killing attacks. Bad nightblades use it only to run away. If you were to go through this thread (and others like it) you can identify the good nightblades from the bad by how they use the skill.
Do you realize that you are saying exactly what I want you to say? You don't know how to deal with cloak. So, instead of looking for a way to deal with it, you come here crying "Nerf!!! Nerf!!!
The game changed, that's all. It is hight time you used those forgotten skills that nobody used some weeks ago.Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
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Used the wrong method with the wrong technique1 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lava_Croft wrote: »Yeah damn those people spamming Cloak, it's not fair while I spam the abilities that keep me alive! Spam BoL, spam Ward, spam whatever Dragon Knights have left.
Cloak is my main form of defense and it's used to trigger the Shadow Barrier passive. Want something to be done about Cloak spam? Fine. Then also do something about spamming heals and shields.
You should not have directed that at the stam sorc because I don't spam any defensive skills. Cloak is a guaranteed escape if you are a competent NB and if you can't see the imbalance in that then I don't know what to tell you. Before IC, escapes were a nuisance, but now they equal tangible benefits, i.e. keeping your TV stones.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points0 -
Septimus_Magna✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Cloak is very good in IC and pvp, no doubt. The last thing I want is a big nerf for Cloak because its the key ability for NBs.
There are multiple counter against Cloak but one counter is not working properly imo. If you hit a cloaked NB with AOE damage he becomes visible but he is able to re-cloak instantly. This removes AOE damage as reliable counter because the duration in which the NB is visible is too short, this makes it impossible to fight NBs without detect pots or radiant mage light.
It would seem fair to give a short (2-3 second) debuff in which Cloak doesnt make the NB invisible when he's un-cloaked by AOE damage. Cost increase is probably not fair for all the stamina NBs so I think this would be a better solution.
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Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
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You should not have directed that at the Magicka Nightblade who doesn't care about Cracked Wood City and spends his days in Cyrodiil.
You should not have directed that at the stam sorc because I don't spam any defensive skills. Cloak is a guaranteed escape if you are a competent NB and if you can't see the imbalance in that then I don't know what to tell you. Before IC, escapes were a nuisance, but now they equal tangible benefits, i.e. keeping your TV stones.
PS: Cloak is far from a guaranteed escape.1 -
OdinForge✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭In the IC world where death means you actually lose something, cloak must be nerfed. My cloak counter on my stam sorc is thundering presence and detect pots and still any competent NB can guaranteed get away as they please. Also don't overlook the ability to perma cloak for both stam and magicka NB through the mob infested areas with ease.
You might be doing this wrong, thundering presence + wrecking blow + optional caltrops works amazing. A stamina NB will be forced to dodge and flee, a magicka NB will be forced to shield spam until he runs out of stam or magicka. Stam Sorc is a great hard counter to NB this patch, at least it's been a stand-out for me among stamina builds.The Age of Wrobel.1
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