Cloak Needs A Nerf

Eejit1331

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Also @Araxleon you should not cry but adapt. I think you made a nice topic for sorcs to do so. Try to think outside the box. A good nb does not rely on cloak - that´s cheap anyway!

I don't really like kicking people when they are down, but this is top top trolling! Maybe start a thread: "Why do NBs refuse to think outside the box?"

+1

Temps sup par, DK neutured, sorcs castrated, and NB having no regen during cloak is nothing more than punch to the junk. NB are herring off SO easy.

wraith808

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

First of all, nerfing something that's not working seems a bit... ill-advised. Get it totally working, where it's 100% dependable that if you press the button, it's going to go off... and it's not going to get disrupted by things that shouldn't disrupt it. Then we can talk.

Second of all, what is this hate between classes on this particular game? I mean, there's class bias in any game. But in this one... it's downright NASTY. Why is that?

They nerfed Ball of Lightning without ever fixing the fact that it failed to absorb spells frequently.

Does that make it right?

Eejit1331

wraith808 wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

First of all, nerfing something that's not working seems a bit... ill-advised. Get it totally working, where it's 100% dependable that if you press the button, it's going to go off... and it's not going to get disrupted by things that shouldn't disrupt it. Then we can talk.

Second of all, what is this hate between classes on this particular game? I mean, there's class bias in any game. But in this one... it's downright NASTY. Why is that?

They nerfed Ball of Lightning without ever fixing the fact that it failed to absorb spells frequently.

Does that make it right?

All of a sudden you are Gandhi..lol..

Maulkin

Eejit1331 wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Also @Araxleon you should not cry but adapt. I think you made a nice topic for sorcs to do so. Try to think outside the box. A good nb does not rely on cloak - that´s cheap anyway!

I don't really like kicking people when they are down, but this is top top trolling! Maybe start a thread: "Why do NBs refuse to think outside the box?"

+1

Temps sup par, DK neutured, sorcs castrated, and NB having no regen during cloak is nothing more than punch to the junk. NB are herring off SO easy.

Well, I was also furious after Crit/Power Surge nerf, Negate nerf and Bolt (multiple) nerfs, but the crux of the matter is that the Sorc class is still a beast. It's weaker than it was is some ways yes but I don't feel castrated because I can't bolt across the map.

Which is why I'm saying that the NBs are overreacting. It's pretty much the first actual nerf they might have (not happened yet) if we disregard the ult-generation changes and the synergy with Transfer passive. It's been mostly fixes and buffs for them so far. So they are kinda hurting atm and throwing their toys out the pram before they even find out the severity of the nerf.

Considering how strong and diverse the class is in general, I'm pretty sure they'll come out of this still being top of the pile or thereabouts.

wraith808

Eejit1331 wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

First of all, nerfing something that's not working seems a bit... ill-advised. Get it totally working, where it's 100% dependable that if you press the button, it's going to go off... and it's not going to get disrupted by things that shouldn't disrupt it. Then we can talk.

Second of all, what is this hate between classes on this particular game? I mean, there's class bias in any game. But in this one... it's downright NASTY. Why is that?

They nerfed Ball of Lightning without ever fixing the fact that it failed to absorb spells frequently.

Does that make it right?

All of a sudden you are Gandhi..lol..

All of a sudden? I play all 4 classes, and some things need tweaks, but I've never called for a complete gutting of skills on any class. Some people think about balancing rather than trying to take others playability away.

ToRelax

Francescolg wrote: »

Hello,
Has the bugged synergy from the NB-ultimate, which could be reactivated by simply dodge rolling, been fixed?
It was possible to keep the synergy effect working much longer than intended.

Any news? Fix yes / now? There's more work to do ZOS!



(I do not remember it very well, or if it was a ultimare or just a skill but basically the complete raid could keepthe synergy up, simply by rolling)

If you mean what I think you do, then it has not been fixed.

Master_Kas

babanovac wrote: »

Seth_Black wrote: »

Without it every NB can shout: 'you want to take my cloak? give me sorc's shields, templar's heals and dk's flap flaps and I'll keep playing.

If ZOS will destroy cloak you'll see how many players will just simply quit the game since there will be no challenge to play this class any more.

Keep cloak as it is and people will (already are) keep leaving the game, because we are all sick of hearing this on TS "He's a NB, no pointing in chasing him" (even if there's 5 of us)

You don't hear this kind of talk when it comes to any other class.

Just lol if 5 of you can't catch one nightblade.

blur

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

@ZOS_GinaBruno
So in other words you are planning on screwing over stamina nightblades.
When you nerfed Bolt Escape you basically ruined the ability for Stamina users. You will now follow your footsteps of hamfisted nerfs with the Nightblade.

Just because a group of people whine about something does not mean they are correct. A lot of the people in here don't even PvP regularly let alone know up from down. As a Stamina Sorc I have 0 trouble with Nightblades and have yet been killed by one since IC launched.

There are several ways to counter Cloak and now you will reward lazy inept stubborn people who refuse to slot a counter and want one for free with no penalty to their build. Just so you know, when they are done whining about Cloak they will move on to something else. They are like pestilence, like vermin, basically a swarm of locusts with insatiable whining.

Joy_Division

Master_Kas wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Non- NB's always complain that "NB can pick the fight when they want" etc, but they forget every class can stealth and hide and pick the fight they want.

Master_Kas wrote: »

DeanTheCat wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

@DeanTheCat Look at some comments after this was posted. I plan to abuse my shieldbreaker as much as possible, or my shieldspamming sorc. Probably both

@Master_Kas: I read (almost) every thread on the forums so I saw the posts. I don't really care either way. This change only means that I substitute my Essences of Magicka with cheap Nirnroot + Blue Entoloma infusions. I'll still achieve the same end result. I don't have much Magicka regen to begin with anyway.

... Though I don't think Kris would be too happy about it. He spends more time in cloak then out.

Yes pots will help, but if you have low magicka regen it will be even lower with this change. Magicka nightblades will still be able to spam it alot more. This is worse for stamina nbs than magicka ones imo. :P

Ah yes Kris, wonder what he thinks about this.

If magicka regeneration is a bit lower, you can still drink magicka potions to keep magicka up. I think in the end people will have found other builds to keep unlimited cloaking. I don't see what the issue is. As long as the cloak, they don't attack. And a detect potion or caltrops it's just like they never cloaked.

Yesterday in IC I was chased by a group of angry EP because I killed one dude and got 800 TV. I cloaked once. I just used charging manouvres for CC immunity and run of. Cloaked once near a splitting so they didn't know which way I was going. going, going gone.

It's not unlimited cloak they cry about. They say it is, but they just angry if any NB gets away. Whether you cloak once or 10 times.

I know how to have better success in getting away. I also have tons of magicka pots, cost reduction and magicka regen even as a stamina nightblade thanks to gear and championpoints. Thing is alot of newer players don't use regen drinks nor have tons of champ points nor the experience on how to use it properly. They will get wrecked even easier and will probably leave the game thanks to no means to defend themselves. But then again this applies to most new players facing properly geared V16's with alot of champ points. And with the way things are going, do we really need less players?

This will affect stamina nightblades way more than magicka ones. You cannot disagree on that.

Thing is everything keeps getting nerfed, it's the way ZOS wants to handle things. So be it. Just can't justify nerfing a skill which is a class main defense, which already have tons of counters which can render it useless. (Not saying it's useless, but it can be made useless by multiple skills + pots)

All right, someone has got to put a stop to this.

Not to single you out, but really, think of the new players? How about those new players who rolled a DK? Where were all you NB forum warriors claiming nerfs were bad for the game and L2P issues when their class has been absolutely eviscerated over the past year?

"Just can't justify nerfing a skill which is a class main defense" this is total BS. DK reflective scales rings a bell? Hey, it ain't a NB skill, bring on the nerfbat. Where where these sentiments when Templars pointed out their signature defensive skill got hit with the nerfbat? How would NBs like it if ZoS came out and said cloak only works against single targets and you can only have one active? Think that was a bit excessive, right? Want a counter to Eclipse, just fricking CC break...there, no more eclipses thrown against you for 8 seconds. None of you have to look like an idiot spamming AoEs into empty air and waste a slot using the awful revealing flare skill.

At least be honest. Say that since you have to put up with sorcerers and their stupid OP shields you don't want to lose cloak and you don't give a rat's a** about how other classes get nerfed.

I never once asked for any nerfs to wings because I didn't use projectiles vs them . Nor for templars. Only thing I wanted nerf for is sorcerers shieldspamming.

We need more players not less.

" "Just can't justify nerfing a skill which is a class main defense" this is total BS"

This is not total BS. A nb without cloak is ***, he can try rolling around but without cloak to reset the timer he is dead in most cases.

The hatred you have for the NB class shines brightly all over your post btw. You trying to tell me that YOU care about the NB class? Doesn't seem like it

Edit: I got this forum account towards the later half of 1.6, so wasn't around before that in the forums. What other's say and do not say, I cant control nor does it mean that I agree with what other nightblades write just because I main a nightblade too.

Seems to me you seeing this as getting even, since DK's got nerfed NBs shall get nerfed too? With that mentality this game is just going to lead to more nerfs until everything is equally useless.

Find me a post where I say nerf dks/wings/templars/bolt escape. You wont. So go pick on someone else.

Umm, I play a NB. I don't hate them. I didn't say you asked for nerfs to the other classes. I said you didn't care when they got nerfed. This makes your whole nerfs-are-bad-for-the-game assertion hollow because you only feel that way when it applies to NBs. In the DK talons nerf thread, this was the only thing you had to say to a thoughtful post why the change should be reverted:

"Wrong about crippling grasp. The root is blockable and reflectable."

For that to be the only thing to say to a well thought out and thorough post demonstrates your apathy. And yet, you can post this with a straight face:

"With that mentality this game is just going to lead to more nerfs until everything is equally useless."

I see the time to stand up against nerfing is when the NB is under threat, but when DKs are under fire (at the same time) your only contribution is to make sure the ESO community was not misinformed about a NB skill.

Which is fine, what 90% of fourmites do. But don't dishonestly hide behind the veil of impartiality, claim to be saving new players, or try to justify your position for the good of the entire game. Just say you are tired of dealing with sorcerers and their OP shields who also use selfish logic to preserve their OP status or need a skill the reliable allows to avoid templar spamming their stupid OP biting jabs skill.

Unlike you, I actually do care for all classes. Check my post history. I play a sorc and am one of the few people who publicly admit the ability to stack everything into magicka for offense, defense, and maneuverability is too strong. NBs thought I was insightful and impartial then. I play a templar. While my fellow templars will have you believe the class sucks, I will tell instead say while many of their skills are impractical and frustrating, there is nothing scarier at this moment than a biting jabs templar: it heals, damages, aoe, and CCs. it is a very strong class right now since they meta has moved away from the main thing templars suck at, burst damage. I play a NB. I in this thread, I have NOT articulated a position or agreed with the poster. All I have done was spotlight hollow and self-serving commentary.

So, no, you are wrong about "getting even" and "hating NBs." You only think I am this way because your perspective and priority are not for the overall health of the game like you claim, rather the maintenance of the power for the class that you play. You are so passionate that you felt the need to use language the triggered the profanity filter just to make your point.

T@rty

I play a Stamina NB, many times in PVP I've hit dark cloak to escape when starting in sneak and detected, however when cloak finishes (2.5 sec) I'm still detected despite being some distance from any enemy.

I have noticed that Magicka NB do not seem to have this problem, when their cloak finishes they stay in stealth. Now I'm not having a go at Magicka NB's, I've learn to counter with detection potions / Mark Target / Focus Aim to name a few option.

Funny how some people don't seem to be able to figure out a count to enemy skills.

Sneaky-Snurr

Dear freaking OP @sabresandiego_ESO,
Firstly, you do realise that Cloak is still buggy. Apparently, certain and crucial DoT abilities you cast break cloak still.
Secondly, it was supposed to work that way plus the cost of casting cloak is already expensive especially to stam NBs. What @ZOS did to cloak in this patch is actually a FIX that should've been deployed in the first few months after launch. It's not a buff because again, it is supposed to work that way.
Thirdly, there are already lots of counters available against cloak (ie. AoE skills, detect pot, time-bombs like prox det for example) and I can only presume that you're not utilising any of them to your advantage.
Now that Gina has heard your whines, you must be extremely delighted. Bravo.

@ZOS_GinaBruno This game doesn't need any more nerfs. Please. Don't listen to whiners you hear.

@blur You get an awesome for that. I just hope the devs won't listen to the whines in this thread.

Levo18 wrote: »

Einher trolling or a joke cant decide....

Nope. Just stupid.

Master_Kas

Joy_Division wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Non- NB's always complain that "NB can pick the fight when they want" etc, but they forget every class can stealth and hide and pick the fight they want.

Master_Kas wrote: »

DeanTheCat wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

@DeanTheCat Look at some comments after this was posted. I plan to abuse my shieldbreaker as much as possible, or my shieldspamming sorc. Probably both

@Master_Kas: I read (almost) every thread on the forums so I saw the posts. I don't really care either way. This change only means that I substitute my Essences of Magicka with cheap Nirnroot + Blue Entoloma infusions. I'll still achieve the same end result. I don't have much Magicka regen to begin with anyway.

... Though I don't think Kris would be too happy about it. He spends more time in cloak then out.

Yes pots will help, but if you have low magicka regen it will be even lower with this change. Magicka nightblades will still be able to spam it alot more. This is worse for stamina nbs than magicka ones imo. :P

Ah yes Kris, wonder what he thinks about this.

If magicka regeneration is a bit lower, you can still drink magicka potions to keep magicka up. I think in the end people will have found other builds to keep unlimited cloaking. I don't see what the issue is. As long as the cloak, they don't attack. And a detect potion or caltrops it's just like they never cloaked.

Yesterday in IC I was chased by a group of angry EP because I killed one dude and got 800 TV. I cloaked once. I just used charging manouvres for CC immunity and run of. Cloaked once near a splitting so they didn't know which way I was going. going, going gone.

It's not unlimited cloak they cry about. They say it is, but they just angry if any NB gets away. Whether you cloak once or 10 times.

I know how to have better success in getting away. I also have tons of magicka pots, cost reduction and magicka regen even as a stamina nightblade thanks to gear and championpoints. Thing is alot of newer players don't use regen drinks nor have tons of champ points nor the experience on how to use it properly. They will get wrecked even easier and will probably leave the game thanks to no means to defend themselves. But then again this applies to most new players facing properly geared V16's with alot of champ points. And with the way things are going, do we really need less players?

This will affect stamina nightblades way more than magicka ones. You cannot disagree on that.

Thing is everything keeps getting nerfed, it's the way ZOS wants to handle things. So be it. Just can't justify nerfing a skill which is a class main defense, which already have tons of counters which can render it useless. (Not saying it's useless, but it can be made useless by multiple skills + pots)

All right, someone has got to put a stop to this.

Not to single you out, but really, think of the new players? How about those new players who rolled a DK? Where were all you NB forum warriors claiming nerfs were bad for the game and L2P issues when their class has been absolutely eviscerated over the past year?

"Just can't justify nerfing a skill which is a class main defense" this is total BS. DK reflective scales rings a bell? Hey, it ain't a NB skill, bring on the nerfbat. Where where these sentiments when Templars pointed out their signature defensive skill got hit with the nerfbat? How would NBs like it if ZoS came out and said cloak only works against single targets and you can only have one active? Think that was a bit excessive, right? Want a counter to Eclipse, just fricking CC break...there, no more eclipses thrown against you for 8 seconds. None of you have to look like an idiot spamming AoEs into empty air and waste a slot using the awful revealing flare skill.

At least be honest. Say that since you have to put up with sorcerers and their stupid OP shields you don't want to lose cloak and you don't give a rat's a** about how other classes get nerfed.

I never once asked for any nerfs to wings because I didn't use projectiles vs them . Nor for templars. Only thing I wanted nerf for is sorcerers shieldspamming.

We need more players not less.

" "Just can't justify nerfing a skill which is a class main defense" this is total BS"

This is not total BS. A nb without cloak is ***, he can try rolling around but without cloak to reset the timer he is dead in most cases.

The hatred you have for the NB class shines brightly all over your post btw. You trying to tell me that YOU care about the NB class? Doesn't seem like it

Edit: I got this forum account towards the later half of 1.6, so wasn't around before that in the forums. What other's say and do not say, I cant control nor does it mean that I agree with what other nightblades write just because I main a nightblade too.

Seems to me you seeing this as getting even, since DK's got nerfed NBs shall get nerfed too? With that mentality this game is just going to lead to more nerfs until everything is equally useless.

Find me a post where I say nerf dks/wings/templars/bolt escape. You wont. So go pick on someone else.

Umm, I play a NB. I don't hate them. I didn't say you asked for nerfs to the other classes. I said you didn't care when they got nerfed. This makes your whole nerfs-are-bad-for-the-game assertion hollow because you only feel that way when it applies to NBs. In the DK talons nerf thread, this was the only thing you had to say to a thoughtful post why the change should be reverted:

"Wrong about crippling grasp. The root is blockable and reflectable."

For that to be the only thing to say to a well thought out and thorough post demonstrates your apathy. And yet, you can post this with a straight face:

"With that mentality this game is just going to lead to more nerfs until everything is equally useless."

I see the time to stand up against nerfing is when the NB is under threat, but when DKs are under fire (at the same time) your only contribution is to make sure the ESO community was not misinformed about a NB skill.

Which is fine, what 90% of fourmites do. But don't dishonestly hide behind the veil of impartiality, claim to be saving new players, or try to justify your position for the good of the entire game. Just say you are tired of dealing with sorcerers and their OP shields who also use selfish logic to preserve their OP status or need a skill the reliable allows to avoid templar spamming their stupid OP biting jabs skill.

Unlike you, I actually do care for all classes. Check my post history. I play a sorc and am one of the few people who publicly admit the ability to stack everything into magicka for offense, defense, and maneuverability is too strong. NBs thought I was insightful and impartial then. I play a templar. While my fellow templars will have you believe the class sucks, I will tell instead say while many of their skills are impractical and frustrating, there is nothing scarier at this moment than a biting jabs templar: it heals, damages, aoe, and CCs. it is a very strong class right now since they meta has moved away from the main thing templars suck at, burst damage. I play a NB. I in this thread, I have NOT articulated a position or agreed with the poster. All I have done was spotlight hollow and self-serving commentary.

So, no, you are wrong about "getting even" and "hating NBs." You only think I am this way because your perspective and priority are not for the overall health of the game like you claim, rather the maintenance of the power for the class that you play. You are so passionate that you felt the need to use language the triggered the profanity filter just to make your point.

I said you didn't care when they got nerfed.

How do you know if I cared or not? As I said when the big nerfhammers swung on DK's I wasn't around in the forums and I played DK back then too.

And yes I do care about the overall health of the game, because I don't want to be fighting the same people every day.

Unlike you, I actually do care for all classes.
You're making alot of assumptions without having any proof/facts.

And yes, I defend cloak, because with the dodgeroll nerf and now regen nerf for stamina nightblades this change will suck. Not saying I won't adapt somehow or anything. Just I hate how people want to nerf every single skill in the game.

You writing alot of stuff which has NOTHING to do with what I said. All I did was defending my main class defensive skill now that I cant roll dodge to avoid damage, got no burst heal, no damage shield, don't want cloak to get a penalty when there is so many counters to it. You won't get any reply from me since you think you know more about myself and what I want / think better than I do myself.

CP5

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

Dear freaking OP @sabresandiego_ESO,
Firstly, you do realise that Cloak is still buggy. Apparently, certain and crucial DoT abilities you cast break cloak still.
Secondly, it was supposed to work that way plus the cost of casting cloak is already expensive especially to stam NBs. What @ZOS did to cloak in this patch is actually a FIX that should've been deployed in the first few months after launch. It's not a buff because again, it is supposed to work that way.
Thirdly, there are already lots of counters available against cloak (ie. AoE skills, detect pot, time-bombs like prox det for example) and I can only presume that you're not utilising any of them to your advantage.
Now that Gina has heard your whines, you must be extremely delighted. Bravo.

@ZOS_GinaBruno This game doesn't need any more nerfs. Please. Don't listen to whiners you hear.

@blur You get an awesome for that. I just hope the devs won't listen to the whines in this thread.

Levo18 wrote: »

Einher trolling or a joke cant decide....

Nope. Just stupid.

I understand nightblades aren't used to nerfs toward their class, but look at how well stamina sorcs have done despite all of the nerfs to streak. If you seriously think cloak is the core skill of the class, and the only thing making the class worthwhile, you have found a very nice box.

Francescolg

Joy_Division wrote: »

there is nothing scarier at this moment than a biting jabs templar: it heals, damages, aoe, and CCs. it is a very strong class right now since they meta has moved away from the main thing templars suck at, burst damage.

1. Burst dmg still exists... no need to argue on that! and wait until people finish their new equip
2. although Templars still won't do burst dmg
3. It's people like you, who are the problem for the class, as they oversee the great weaknesses and they keep focusing on temporal "shiny things", as was done with Jesus Beam. You get the crowd's attention on 1 shiny aspect, while ZOS keeps nurfing us

Sneaky-Snurr

CP5 wrote: »

I understand nightblades aren't used to nerfs toward their class, but look at how well stamina sorcs have done despite all of the nerfs to streak. If you seriously think cloak is the core skill of the class, and the only thing making the class worthwhile, you have found a very nice box.

@CP5
The thing is, Cloak IS indeed a NB's core skill. A lot of passives and skills (ie. Shadow Barrier and Veiled strike and its morphs) revolve around it and it is a staple to all NBs without a doubt (if you think that's not the case then I don't know what is), if Cloak gets nerfed then stam NBs are done for. Add to the fact that NBs have no damage shields or reliable heals, NBs are incapable of surviving without Cloak. Thus, you'll see the re-emergence of StickBlades once more if the nerf comes into play.
That's what separates each and every class apart. Also, NBs didn't need any nerfs because they were weak at launch and Magicka NBs were the only way to go. Cloak hasn't even been fixed fully yet and I'll stress on this once more, what @ZOS did to Cloak in the IC patch is actually a FIX. When Cloak is actually close to being fixed, all the whiners stormed out of their caves and yelled 'Cloak needs nerf! OMG!'.

And also, Cloak does NOT deal damage nor offer CC upon cast at all compared to Sorcs's Streak. It is simply a utility with hard synergies available at disposal which all NBs can utilise. Most of the time, it is used for escaping and we all know very well that most of the time it ends badly for the cloaking NBs attempting to escape.
The stereotype goes like this and is indeed true: Templars (healers), NBs (stealth-specialist), DKs (tankers) and Sorcs (spellcasters).

killingspreeb16_ESO

Derra wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Fortunately I can´t cast more than three cloaks anyway..
It will hit magicka nbs surely hard tho and I´ll just wait until something similar happens to shields and heals (BoL).
I mean if no other defense ability is spammable, why should shields and heals be an exception.
Just a matter of time until people QQ about the next thing.

Next penality is for shield!

Oh i´m so glad we can point anyone having problems with shields to the wonderful shieldbreaker set zenimax just introduced with their latest major patch for this occasion

I need to point that you have MANY skill that work against cloak?some people here need to try some of them,and i need to waste my 5 set to counter your shield but you can't slot a skill that counter cloak?give me a skill like radiant magelight that make my skill bypass your shield instead of shieldbreaker,is so good that i alredy changed my set to willow path for extra regen since shieldbreaker work well only against bad sorc(with bad i mean the sitting duck sorc that keep reapply shield and do nothing else) and is very situational against a good one.

olsborg

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

This will actually only hit stamina nightblades hard. Why not make it so that you can maximum have 1000 magicka regen while cloak is active? Some magicka nightblades have 2500-3000 magicka regen, while stamina nightblades have 800-1300 (rough estimate). Flat out reducing it by a % will hurt stamina nightblades more as they already cant really shadow cloak many times before their magicka is depleted. Also the average magicka nightblades have about 4 times more magicka then the average stamina nightblade.

Joy_Division

Master_Kas wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Non- NB's always complain that "NB can pick the fight when they want" etc, but they forget every class can stealth and hide and pick the fight they want.

Master_Kas wrote: »

DeanTheCat wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

@DeanTheCat Look at some comments after this was posted. I plan to abuse my shieldbreaker as much as possible, or my shieldspamming sorc. Probably both

@Master_Kas: I read (almost) every thread on the forums so I saw the posts. I don't really care either way. This change only means that I substitute my Essences of Magicka with cheap Nirnroot + Blue Entoloma infusions. I'll still achieve the same end result. I don't have much Magicka regen to begin with anyway.

... Though I don't think Kris would be too happy about it. He spends more time in cloak then out.

Yes pots will help, but if you have low magicka regen it will be even lower with this change. Magicka nightblades will still be able to spam it alot more. This is worse for stamina nbs than magicka ones imo. :P

Ah yes Kris, wonder what he thinks about this.

If magicka regeneration is a bit lower, you can still drink magicka potions to keep magicka up. I think in the end people will have found other builds to keep unlimited cloaking. I don't see what the issue is. As long as the cloak, they don't attack. And a detect potion or caltrops it's just like they never cloaked.

Yesterday in IC I was chased by a group of angry EP because I killed one dude and got 800 TV. I cloaked once. I just used charging manouvres for CC immunity and run of. Cloaked once near a splitting so they didn't know which way I was going. going, going gone.

It's not unlimited cloak they cry about. They say it is, but they just angry if any NB gets away. Whether you cloak once or 10 times.

I know how to have better success in getting away. I also have tons of magicka pots, cost reduction and magicka regen even as a stamina nightblade thanks to gear and championpoints. Thing is alot of newer players don't use regen drinks nor have tons of champ points nor the experience on how to use it properly. They will get wrecked even easier and will probably leave the game thanks to no means to defend themselves. But then again this applies to most new players facing properly geared V16's with alot of champ points. And with the way things are going, do we really need less players?

This will affect stamina nightblades way more than magicka ones. You cannot disagree on that.

Thing is everything keeps getting nerfed, it's the way ZOS wants to handle things. So be it. Just can't justify nerfing a skill which is a class main defense, which already have tons of counters which can render it useless. (Not saying it's useless, but it can be made useless by multiple skills + pots)

All right, someone has got to put a stop to this.

Not to single you out, but really, think of the new players? How about those new players who rolled a DK? Where were all you NB forum warriors claiming nerfs were bad for the game and L2P issues when their class has been absolutely eviscerated over the past year?

"Just can't justify nerfing a skill which is a class main defense" this is total BS. DK reflective scales rings a bell? Hey, it ain't a NB skill, bring on the nerfbat. Where where these sentiments when Templars pointed out their signature defensive skill got hit with the nerfbat? How would NBs like it if ZoS came out and said cloak only works against single targets and you can only have one active? Think that was a bit excessive, right? Want a counter to Eclipse, just fricking CC break...there, no more eclipses thrown against you for 8 seconds. None of you have to look like an idiot spamming AoEs into empty air and waste a slot using the awful revealing flare skill.

At least be honest. Say that since you have to put up with sorcerers and their stupid OP shields you don't want to lose cloak and you don't give a rat's a** about how other classes get nerfed.

I never once asked for any nerfs to wings because I didn't use projectiles vs them . Nor for templars. Only thing I wanted nerf for is sorcerers shieldspamming.

We need more players not less.

" "Just can't justify nerfing a skill which is a class main defense" this is total BS"

This is not total BS. A nb without cloak is ***, he can try rolling around but without cloak to reset the timer he is dead in most cases.

The hatred you have for the NB class shines brightly all over your post btw. You trying to tell me that YOU care about the NB class? Doesn't seem like it

Edit: I got this forum account towards the later half of 1.6, so wasn't around before that in the forums. What other's say and do not say, I cant control nor does it mean that I agree with what other nightblades write just because I main a nightblade too.

Seems to me you seeing this as getting even, since DK's got nerfed NBs shall get nerfed too? With that mentality this game is just going to lead to more nerfs until everything is equally useless.

Find me a post where I say nerf dks/wings/templars/bolt escape. You wont. So go pick on someone else.

Umm, I play a NB. I don't hate them. I didn't say you asked for nerfs to the other classes. I said you didn't care when they got nerfed. This makes your whole nerfs-are-bad-for-the-game assertion hollow because you only feel that way when it applies to NBs. In the DK talons nerf thread, this was the only thing you had to say to a thoughtful post why the change should be reverted:

"Wrong about crippling grasp. The root is blockable and reflectable."

For that to be the only thing to say to a well thought out and thorough post demonstrates your apathy. And yet, you can post this with a straight face:

"With that mentality this game is just going to lead to more nerfs until everything is equally useless."

I see the time to stand up against nerfing is when the NB is under threat, but when DKs are under fire (at the same time) your only contribution is to make sure the ESO community was not misinformed about a NB skill.

Which is fine, what 90% of fourmites do. But don't dishonestly hide behind the veil of impartiality, claim to be saving new players, or try to justify your position for the good of the entire game. Just say you are tired of dealing with sorcerers and their OP shields who also use selfish logic to preserve their OP status or need a skill the reliable allows to avoid templar spamming their stupid OP biting jabs skill.

Unlike you, I actually do care for all classes. Check my post history. I play a sorc and am one of the few people who publicly admit the ability to stack everything into magicka for offense, defense, and maneuverability is too strong. NBs thought I was insightful and impartial then. I play a templar. While my fellow templars will have you believe the class sucks, I will tell instead say while many of their skills are impractical and frustrating, there is nothing scarier at this moment than a biting jabs templar: it heals, damages, aoe, and CCs. it is a very strong class right now since they meta has moved away from the main thing templars suck at, burst damage. I play a NB. I in this thread, I have NOT articulated a position or agreed with the poster. All I have done was spotlight hollow and self-serving commentary.

So, no, you are wrong about "getting even" and "hating NBs." You only think I am this way because your perspective and priority are not for the overall health of the game like you claim, rather the maintenance of the power for the class that you play. You are so passionate that you felt the need to use language the triggered the profanity filter just to make your point.

I said you didn't care when they got nerfed.

How do you know if I cared or not? As I said when the big nerfhammers swung on DK's I wasn't around in the forums and I played DK back then too.

The nerfhammer is being swung at DKs at this very moment. In that specific talons thread, your only concern was to inform the community that a NB skill was not as strong as claimed. That's pretty good indication of not caring.

I never said you were wrong for defending your class skill. I questioned the specious means in which you did so by claiming that you were looking our for new players (who, apparently if they are shieldspamming sorcs are exempt from the whole main defense shouldn't be nerfed rule) or that nerfs are harmful to the health of the game, since DKs only need to know the intricacies of NB skills even when they try to play their eviscerated class.

Go ahead and defend your class. But when you use self-serving means to do so, you are going to get called out for doing so.

blur

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Before you hamfist nerf a class ability, change the game mechanics first.
We have CP, Gear, and overall mechanics that effect the way abilities work and are used. Before destroying or modifying an ability which is already augmented by the aforementioned variables, you should change those first. Also IC is mostly zergs, this would be unfair for a NB.

For example, you mentioned changing the way regen works while cloaked... you should change the way regen works period. Cloak is not the problem. I am not a Nightblade, I don't have an issue with them either. Before you batter an ability, change the foundation. Sooner or later you will change the way mechanics work, CP, stats, etc. You have done this several times. Each time you have left previous tweaks and nerfs to abilities alone making them even worse or better just due to the overall mechanic change.

What you fail to realize is a lot of people need a scapegoat.

I cannot count how many threads I have seen authored by a clueless player shouting at the heavens about some alleged imbalanced class or ability or mechanic. Then said player provides video proof. In this video you see not only is he vr6, he is wearing level 30 gear, not using block, not moving out of red circles, not utilizing sneak, no, rather he is standing there like a bump on a log trying to Radiant Destruction somebody during a massive zerg vs zerg fight. What happens? Someone sees this knucklehead and they blow him up. This player instead of increasing his PvP IQ, goes to the forums to play the blame game.

What does this have in common with every other thread created in this spirit? They always remove themselves from the equation. It's never them, always someone or something else. Nerf this, nerf that.

Again, Cloak is fine. Change the overall game mechanics before you ruin an ability or penalize other builds who are not playing Magicka NBs.

At the end of the day, you are essentially saying "An ability that allows a class to escape is working as intended. We do not want this class to escape, thus we are nerfing the ability." Let's be honest, other than getting away, what is cloak doing? Certainly not allowing them to get into melee range because Radiant Magelight works up to 12m... and people use it right? Oh wait... people don't slot counters, they whine until they get it for free.

Sneaky-Snurr

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

I need to point that you have MANY skill that work against cloak?some people here need to try some of them,and i need to waste my 5 set to counter your shield but you can't slot a skill that counter cloak?give me a skill like radiant magelight that make my skill bypass your shield instead of shieldbreaker,is so good that i alredy changed my set to willow path for extra regen since shieldbreaker work well only against bad sorc(with bad i mean the sitting duck sorc that keep reapply shield and do nothing else) and is very situational against a good one.

Well said @killingspreeb16_ESO. This whole thread actually points back to the main culprit to all nerfs and that's L2P issue.

eventide03b14a_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

Why do you feel like it needs this? Seriously, please reconsider.

Joy_Division

Francescolg wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

there is nothing scarier at this moment than a biting jabs templar: it heals, damages, aoe, and CCs. it is a very strong class right now since they meta has moved away from the main thing templars suck at, burst damage.

1. Burst dmg still exists... no need to argue on that! and wait until people finish their new equip
2. although Templars still won't do burst dmg
3. It's people like you, who are the problem for the class, as they oversee the great weaknesses and they keep focusing on temporal "shiny things", as was done with Jesus Beam. You get the crowd's attention on 1 shiny aspect, while ZOS keeps nurfing us

You're another biased poster. I'm only a problem for those self-serving templars who still think it's 1.5 where their class is incapable of doing DPS. Jabjabjabjabjabjabjabjab DPS can only be rivaled a perfect DK dot rotation (which is easily cleansed in PvP), and unlike DKs, a jabs spamming templar will heal themselves while doing so.

Oh, and by the way, Jesus Beam might be a DPS loss now until your opponent is at like 15%. Skill is not that shiny now.

olsborg

Hmm, so they are nerfing every class specific skills that set them apart...soon we will all be using weapon skills like wrecking blow..only..because the only class skills that dont get nerfed are deadric pets...because nobody uses them so they wont get nerfed.

killingspreeb16_ESO

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

I need to point that you have MANY skill that work against cloak?some people here need to try some of them,and i need to waste my 5 set to counter your shield but you can't slot a skill that counter cloak?give me a skill like radiant magelight that make my skill bypass your shield instead of shieldbreaker,is so good that i alredy changed my set to willow path for extra regen since shieldbreaker work well only against bad sorc(with bad i mean the sitting duck sorc that keep reapply shield and do nothing else) and is very situational against a good one.

Well said @killingspreeb16_ESO. This whole thread actually points back to the main culprit to all nerfs and that's L2P issue.

Well if the nerf is not to big i can live with it,but then people will come again on the forum complain about cloak etc,you can't complain about cloak if you refuse to slot a counter,if i don't use a skill that debuff heal i can't complain about templar healing to much,it's my "fault" to not use a counter to it.

CP5

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

I understand nightblades aren't used to nerfs toward their class, but look at how well stamina sorcs have done despite all of the nerfs to streak. If you seriously think cloak is the core skill of the class, and the only thing making the class worthwhile, you have found a very nice box.

@CP5
The thing is, Cloak IS indeed a NB's core skill. A lot of passives and skills (ie. Shadow Barrier and Veiled strike and its morphs) revolve around it and it is a staple to all NBs without a doubt (if you think that's not the case then I don't know what is), if Cloak gets nerfed then stam NBs are done for. Add to the fact that NBs have no damage shields or reliable heals, NBs are incapable of surviving without Cloak. Thus, you'll see the re-emergence of StickBlades once more if the nerf comes into play.
That's what separates each and every class apart. Also, NBs didn't need any nerfs because they were weak at launch and Magicka NBs were the only way to go. Cloak hasn't even been fixed fully yet and I'll stress on this once more, what @ZOS did to Cloak in the IC patch is actually a FIX. When Cloak is actually close to being fixed, all the whiners stormed out of their caves and yelled 'Cloak needs nerf! OMG!'.

And also, Cloak does NOT deal damage nor offer CC upon cast at all compared to Sorcs's Streak. It is simply a utility with hard synergies available at disposal which all NBs can utilise. Most of the time, it is used for escaping and we all know very well that most of the time it ends badly for the cloaking NBs attempting to escape.
The stereotype goes like this and is indeed true: Templars (healers), NBs (stealth-specialist), DKs (tankers) and Sorcs (spellcasters).

I'm sorry, but if you are unable to see all the other skills that nightblades can use to not only set themselves apart from the other classes, but also do things no other class can, that is not on me. Cloak is one skill, and if you feel that is the only thing the class is good with, if it's the thing the class needs. The nightblade as a class has a lot going for it, and a lot of choice. I myself am trying to cut cloak out of all my bars because I feel like I use to too much, I find myself frequently avoiding death in most situations and its utility is almost unmatched by most everything else in game. I can't do anything more to tell some people that nightblades aren't only cloak, but I guess everything else the class offers isn't enough.

Eejit1331

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

I understand nightblades aren't used to nerfs toward their class, but look at how well stamina sorcs have done despite all of the nerfs to streak. If you seriously think cloak is the core skill of the class, and the only thing making the class worthwhile, you have found a very nice box.

@CP5
The thing is, Cloak IS indeed a NB's core skill. A lot of passives and skills (ie. Shadow Barrier and Veiled strike and its morphs) revolve around it and it is a staple to all NBs without a doubt (if you think that's not the case then I don't know what is), if Cloak gets nerfed then stam NBs are done for. Add to the fact that NBs have no damage shields or reliable heals, NBs are incapable of surviving without Cloak. Thus, you'll see the re-emergence of StickBlades once more if the nerf comes into play.
That's what separates each and every class apart. Also, NBs didn't need any nerfs because they were weak at launch and Magicka NBs were the only way to go. Cloak hasn't even been fixed fully yet and I'll stress on this once more, what @ZOS did to Cloak in the IC patch is actually a FIX. When Cloak is actually close to being fixed, all the whiners stormed out of their caves and yelled 'Cloak needs nerf! OMG!'.

And also, Cloak does NOT deal damage nor offer CC upon cast at all compared to Sorcs's Streak. It is simply a utility with hard synergies available at disposal which all NBs can utilise. Most of the time, it is used for escaping and we all know very well that most of the time it ends badly for the cloaking NBs attempting to escape.
The stereotype goes like this and is indeed true: Templars (healers), NBs (stealth-specialist), DKs (tankers) and Sorcs (spellcasters).

This is only a core skill to a L2P NB noob. NB have plenty of good abilities. You just have to think outside the OP Cloak box. Don't worry, you'll adapt as all the other classes have. Cheers!

MissBizz

As mainly a PvE player who has now been trying to PvP since IC came out.. I find those constant stealthing Nightblade's super annoying.

Although, I'm not sure about a nerf, but buffing detect potions would certainly help. I know they were nerfed at the end of PTS, but maybe bring them to the middle of what they were, and what they are now?

BalticBlues

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make

Sorcs were double nerfed by limiting Bolt Escape PLUS the Shield Breaker set.
Will we now see a similar treatment for NBs by limiting Cloaks PLUS a Cloak Breaker set?

What did NBs always recommed to Sorcs on that occasion? "L2P"?
Perhaps NBs now also would like to vote against "Breaker" sets, breaking game rules and skills?

Lava_Croft

MissBizz wrote: »

As mainly a PvE player who has now been trying to PvP since IC came out.. I find those constant stealthing Nightblade's super annoying.

Although, I'm not sure about a nerf, but buffing detect potions would certainly help. I know they were nerfed at the end of PTS, but maybe bring them to the middle of what they were, and what they are now?

I rather have a nerf related to Magicka regeneration while Cloaked than buffing a potion which is so ridiculous that quaffing one nullifies your Cloak to everybody in the vicinity.

Please nerf Cloak hard and make it so Detection Potions only nullify Cloak for the one who quaffed it.

Next! Looking at you, Breath of Life bots.

HungryHobo

Lol, AoE is a great counter to cloak. I get away farm more times using rapid+Sprinting around corners than cloaking away. I love to kill cloakers who think they can get away and I keep AoE'ing them until they are dead.