Confirmed Material Amount for v16 Gear

G0ku

daemonios wrote: »

By that logic, why bother with V15? We have perfectly serviceable V14 gear right now...

Truth is, ZOS want to force people to play the game regardless of content, and they want an excuse to add "convenient" items to the crown store so people will be lured into paying to bypass the "time sink".

Because once again they nerfed. VR14 gear right now is more powerful than after the patch. You will need to re-gear to get back to the state you´re in right now. Smart of them, right?

You never advance with one of those updates, you always need to grind back to where you came from...

DDuke

I think they should next increase the amount of tempers it takes to upgrade gear as well for these VR15 (or atleast VR16) items.

80x Tempering Alloys/Dreugh Wax required to upgrade each piece and you'll have truly "Legendary" gear (not one that every VR16 Joe running around wears).

Paulhewhewria

DDuke wrote: »

I think they should next increase the amount of tempers it takes to upgrade gear as well for these VR15 (or atleast VR16) items.

80x Tempering Alloys/Dreugh Wax required to upgrade each piece and you'll have truly "Legendary" gear (not one that every VR16 Joe running around wears).

Not trying to pick a fight,but your kidding right LOL.

DDuke

WarlordGrievous wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

I think they should next increase the amount of tempers it takes to upgrade gear as well for these VR15 (or atleast VR16) items.

80x Tempering Alloys/Dreugh Wax required to upgrade each piece and you'll have truly "Legendary" gear (not one that every VR16 Joe running around wears).

Not trying to pick a fight,but your kidding right LOL.

No, I'm not.

In how many games is "legendary" gear worn by the majority of competitive players? That's ridiculous.

Either they need to come up with a new, rarer tier of tempers or make a change like this.


That said, I am aware that the stat increase from epic to legendary is miniscule, and that is also something they should change (otherwise you're not really rewarding people for their effort).

daemonios

WarlordGrievous wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

I think they should next increase the amount of tempers it takes to upgrade gear as well for these VR15 (or atleast VR16) items.

80x Tempering Alloys/Dreugh Wax required to upgrade each piece and you'll have truly "Legendary" gear (not one that every VR16 Joe running around wears).

Not trying to pick a fight,but your kidding right LOL.

Well, if on top of that they add a chance to destroy the item regardless of the amount of improvement mats used, they'll have successfully transitioned to a F2P Korean-style grind MMO...

Vegaroth

If they want to make v16 harder to get there are other options diferent than create a huge gap in materials amount requirements.

Rinmaethodain

WarlordGrievous wrote: »

Not trying to pick a fight,but your kidding right LOL.

There are certain people who decided that for 1.7 patch they will support every idea that will provide further dominance and monopoly on any new content only to PVP players., while they ignore rest of ESO community.

ZOS proposed "fix" to only make sure that every piece of VR15/VR16 gear will provide just one single piece of crafting material is not solving anything.

There is still issue with the problem that ZOS decided on purpose to greatly limit new crafting materials and make them almost DLC exclusive, thus noone who pays cash wont be able to get them on his own.

The new rule that "in old dungeons, only bosses and minibosses will drop VR15/VR16 gear" that is against current ruleset that "any monster in dungoeon scaled up will have chance to drop gear of proper lvl" in combination with VR15/VR16 gear being rigged to give just one piece of material (where currently for VR1-VR14 its 3-4 pieces) results in unfair and unjust system that restrict access to materials only to people buying DLC.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]

ADarklore

I really have to wonder about ZOS. They claim they LISTEN to feedback, yet, here we have a topic that has tons of threads, with tons of comments, all in complete disapproval of their plan- and yet, are they actually LISTENING... it appears NOT. So what is the point of giving feedback, if the overwhelming majority of players disagree and yet they don't listen anyway.

DDuke

ADarklore wrote: »

I really have to wonder about ZOS. They claim they LISTEN to feedback, yet, here we have a topic that has tons of threads, with tons of comments, all in complete disapproval of their plan- and yet, are they actually LISTENING... it appears NOT. So what is the point of giving feedback, if the overwhelming majority of players disagree and yet they don't listen anyway.

I don't think you understand what the word complete means ^^

Or the word "majority"... you shouldn't throw that around without factual evidence to back it up.

Most people I've talked to in game are happy about high end crafting requiring more effort now (finally).
It's not like crafting being too easy & giving too powerful gear has been one of the top complaints about this game...


Also, this is actually what most MMOs have got wrong: people do not quit MMOs because things are too difficult - people quit MMOs because they've completed everything, or things are too easy & it becomes boring.

Things that are hard to achieve give you goals & reasons to keep playing.


Do you ever wonder why WoW for instance started losing subscribers after they started dumbing down everything to appease the forum whiners, when they started giving around welfare epics, removing attunements etc?

Well, there's your reason.


The "I want everything and I want it now!!" generation of gamers is digging its own grave by demanding the game to end sooner.


That is not to say there shouldn't be easier goals to reach as well, easier dungeons to do etc.

But high end stuff must always be difficult & time demanding.

Rinmaethodain

ADarklore wrote: »

I really have to wonder about ZOS. They claim they LISTEN to feedback, yet, here we have a topic that has tons of threads, with tons of comments, all in complete disapproval of their plan- and yet, are they actually LISTENING... it appears NOT. So what is the point of giving feedback, if the overwhelming majority of players disagree and yet they don't listen anyway.

The reason for that is because ZOS apparently puts priority on /feedback coming from PTS while they ignore most of topics on forum, even in PTS section. Since the start of PTS ive seen most of "Z" marks only in topics related directly to PVP content or TV stones. The topics that revolve around base game patch are deserted by ZOS.

Ok, but what is the reason that even if forum community disagrees greatly with changes while ZOS states they have lot of positive feedback (just like with "0 stamina regen while blocking". There is plenty of arguments against this unjustified nerf, plenty of topics from people who were on PTS, yet ZOS states "we have lot of positive feedback so we will keep it that way)? It might be because IC is PVP focused, its made to appeal to narrow group of people, PVPers. These are the people who en mass went to PTS to test out TV stones and PVP.
While in there, they look for every possible way to "exploit" anything they find, hoping it will go trought to the game. And what they can exploit? Anything that will grant them personal gains, nerfs to things they dont like, sources of income, things being restricted and limited only to IC. In basic, they provide fake and false /feedback not because they think some changes are good for game, they do it only because that change will provide them personal gains, even if they provide feedback about things they have no idea about (like how PVP DPS can know something about PVE tanking and have competency to declare that something he never did is boring, just an example).

eNumbra

ADarklore wrote: »

I really have to wonder about ZOS. They claim they LISTEN to feedback, yet, here we have a topic that has tons of threads, with tons of comments, all in complete disapproval of their plan- and yet, are they actually LISTENING... it appears NOT. So what is the point of giving feedback, if the overwhelming majority of players disagree and yet they don't listen anyway.

You can listen to feedback and still ignore it.

ADarklore

eNumbra wrote: »

You can listen to feedback and still ignore it.

Sadly, too true. I was referring to how they say, when they make changes that they've "listened to feedback", meaning they actually DO what the majority of feedback suggests. But you are correct, listening and doing are two different things.

Also, @DDuke , do you think perhaps WoW has lost subscribers because there are many, many more choices for MMOs these days and that many players find better gaming in newer games? In the WoW glory days there were few options for MMOs, but in the past few years there has been an MMO explosion. I know I have co-workers who played WoW for years, have gone back recently to check out the game again, but say that graphics and game-play are no longer competitive with the newer MMOs. Their opinion was not based on the 'ease' of changes, but based on how WoW is extremely dated.

Further, you do realize that the majority of online gamers today are casual players, right? The 'old-school' type of MMO player from WoW's glory days are long gone. Yet, you still have many MMOs that have changed to draw in casual players and are still going after many years, even though many disgruntled players had warned of their impending doom years ago.

Oh, and when I say MAJORITY, I have determine that from both common sense and the pages of pages of comments I read from overwhelming opinions in one direction. YOUR view seems to be in quite the minority from what I've been reading, and I wonder how many people "in game" actually know what the upcoming changes are going to bring? Further, adding this much MAT requirement for VR16 gear would MEAN SOMETHING if it didn't offer such miniscule results. So you talk 'high end crafting', but that really should only mean something if you get something that is of 'high value' in comparison to that which is below it. IMO, and in the opinion of most comments in the forum, there is a HUGE disparity between the two.

DDuke

ADarklore wrote: »

eNumbra wrote: »

You can listen to feedback and still ignore it.

Sadly, too true. I was referring to how they say, when they make changes that they've "listened to feedback", meaning they actually DO what the majority of feedback suggests. But you are correct, listening and doing are two different things.

Also, @DDuke , do you think perhaps WoW has lost subscribers because there are many, many more choices for MMOs these days and that many players find better gaming in newer games? In the WoW glory days there were few options for MMOs, but in the past few years there has been an MMO explosion. I know I have co-workers who played WoW for years, have gone back recently to check out the game again, but say that graphics and game-play are no longer competitive with the newer MMOs. Their opinion was not based on the 'ease' of changes, but based on how WoW is extremely dated.

Further, you do realize that the majority of online gamers today are casual players, right? The 'old-school' type of MMO player from WoW's glory days are long gone. Yet, you still have many MMOs that have changed to draw in casual players and are still going after many years, even though many disgruntled players had warned of their impending doom years ago.

Oh, and when I say MAJORITY, I have determine that from both common sense and the pages of pages of comments I read from overwhelming opinions in one direction. YOUR view seems to be in quite the minority from what I've been reading, and I wonder how many people "in game" actually know what the upcoming changes are going to bring? Further, adding this much MAT requirement for VR16 gear would MEAN SOMETHING if it didn't offer such miniscule results. So you talk 'high end crafting', but that really should only mean something if you get something that is of 'high value' in comparison to that which is below it. IMO, and in the opinion of most comments in the forum, there is a HUGE disparity between the two.

If you want to determine majority view on a topic with good certainty, make an unbiased poll and calculate margin of error. Otherwise, you're just guessing.

Also you'll have to determine whether players actually know what's best for them (touched on this in my previous post).

If you want to know why all modern MMOs have such a low player retention rate & why they haven't been successful, you'll need to look no further.

...and before you bring up WildStar: you do need to capture the audience in the first place. You provide enough content for casual players to enjoy (which WildStar didn't) and then hook them with the end game.

You cave in to the "I want everything now!!" demographic, and they'll leave the game just as soon as they've got what they screamed for and get bored.


And yes, I do agree the results should be more meaningful (this has been requested for hardmode Trials gear as well, the stat difference is absolutely miniscule compared to normal mode versions).

helediron

DDuke wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

eNumbra wrote: »

You can listen to feedback and still ignore it.

Sadly, too true. I was referring to how they say, when they make changes that they've "listened to feedback", meaning they actually DO what the majority of feedback suggests. But you are correct, listening and doing are two different things.

Also, @DDuke , do you think perhaps WoW has lost subscribers because there are many, many more choices for MMOs these days and that many players find better gaming in newer games? In the WoW glory days there were few options for MMOs, but in the past few years there has been an MMO explosion. I know I have co-workers who played WoW for years, have gone back recently to check out the game again, but say that graphics and game-play are no longer competitive with the newer MMOs. Their opinion was not based on the 'ease' of changes, but based on how WoW is extremely dated.

Further, you do realize that the majority of online gamers today are casual players, right? The 'old-school' type of MMO player from WoW's glory days are long gone. Yet, you still have many MMOs that have changed to draw in casual players and are still going after many years, even though many disgruntled players had warned of their impending doom years ago.

Oh, and when I say MAJORITY, I have determine that from both common sense and the pages of pages of comments I read from overwhelming opinions in one direction. YOUR view seems to be in quite the minority from what I've been reading, and I wonder how many people "in game" actually know what the upcoming changes are going to bring? Further, adding this much MAT requirement for VR16 gear would MEAN SOMETHING if it didn't offer such miniscule results. So you talk 'high end crafting', but that really should only mean something if you get something that is of 'high value' in comparison to that which is below it. IMO, and in the opinion of most comments in the forum, there is a HUGE disparity between the two.

If you want to determine majority view on a topic with good certainty, make an unbiased poll and calculate margin of error. Otherwise, you're just guessing.

Also you'll have to determine whether players actually know what's best for them (touched on this in my previous post).

If you want to know why all modern MMOs have such a low player retention rate & why they haven't been successful, you'll need to look no further.

...and before you bring up WildStar: you do need to capture the audience in the first place. You provide enough content for casual players to enjoy (which WildStar didn't) and then hook them with the end game.

You cave in to the "I want everything now!!" demographic, and they'll leave the game just as soon as they've got what they screamed for and get bored.


And yes, I do agree the results should be more meaningful (this has been requested for hardmode Trials gear as well, the stat difference is absolutely miniscule compared to normal mode versions).

Partly agree with this. There should be more difficult high end crafting. I just don't consider throttling vr16 base materials as high end crafting.
edit: oops was supposed to quote the previous duke's message "want everything now". Please forum, slow down.

LadyDestiny

Whoever thought of this must have been drunk or something. Imagine if it was added to crafting writs lol

I_killed_Vivec

LadyDestiny wrote: »

Whoever thought of this must have been drunk or something. Imagine if it was added to crafting writs lol

It does seem ridiculous that the "high-end crafting" that some people want (where high end means grind) doesn't cross over into writs. Surely those who want "high-end crafting" would want "high-end" writs...

There's enough fuss about having to use 100 voidsteel ingots for a single writ. Obviously ZoS decided that new writs requiring new materials locked behind a DLC pay wall was just a step too far.

Detector

WTF?! X10 its LOL! Fix it.

Hears_Bright_Colors

Difference between 15 and 16 will be negligible. This just gives min max players a longer term goal. Now with 100% decon rate, and all the drops from IC mobs, i don't think it will take as long as it seems, especially if you're mixing crafted and drop gear. Not really worth all the twisted panties, IMO.

Gilvoth

thank you for this information and warning us of this incredible terrible new thing so we can prepare as crafters for floods of matts now ahead of the obvious drought and baren matterials ahead, my god this aint cool in the least but atleast we now know ahead of time, thank you again for this information.

my only question is:
will it also cost 150 pieces of mats for upgrades? to make the items purple or yellow v16 will it cost 150 refining matts each upgrade as well?

AssaultLemming

I think you all are underestimating just how much of this is going to drop as people spend their whole play time farming mobs in IC. 150 mats is probably only an hour or two farming, expect to see these at 5k per stack in the first 30 days with no trouble, dropping to just above vendor price in 3 months as the initial rush wears off.

hamon

DDuke wrote: »

WarlordGrievous wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

I think they should next increase the amount of tempers it takes to upgrade gear as well for these VR15 (or atleast VR16) items.

80x Tempering Alloys/Dreugh Wax required to upgrade each piece and you'll have truly "Legendary" gear (not one that every VR16 Joe running around wears).

Not trying to pick a fight,but your kidding right LOL.

No, I'm not.

In how many games is "legendary" gear worn by the majority of competitive players? That's ridiculous.

Either they need to come up with a new, rarer tier of tempers or make a change like this.


That said, I am aware that the stat increase from epic to legendary is miniscule, and that is also something they should change (otherwise you're not really rewarding people for their effort).

ye totally man , thats a great idea ! in fact they should make it that you need 1000 mats and 100 tempers for each item... but to compensate make the gear 10 times better than v15... so those really hardcore dedicated full time players can one shot everyone else......

........ except there won't be anyone else . cos everyone who isn't willing or able to pump that amount of time into play ESO will simply go feck it , and play a diffrent game. thats what happens to games that cater to a tiny minority of "hardcore" grinders and tryhards.

Gilvoth

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

thank you for this information and warning us of this incredible terrible new thing so we can prepare as crafters for floods of matts now ahead of the obvious drought and baren matterials ahead, my god this aint cool in the least but atleast we now know ahead of time, thank you again for this information.

my only question is:
will it also cost 150 pieces of mats for upgrades? to make the items purple or yellow v16 will it cost 150 refining matts each upgrade as well?

how come i cant get an answer to this?

ill ask again...

will it also cost 150 pieces of mats for upgrades? to make the items purple or yellow v16 will it cost 150 refining matts each upgrade as well?[/quote]

R0M2K

Nonsense.

sadownik

Hears_Bright_Colors wrote: »

Difference between 15 and 16 will be negligible. This just gives min max players a longer term goal. Now with 100% decon rate, and all the drops from IC mobs, i don't think it will take as long as it seems, especially if you're mixing crafted and drop gear. Not really worth all the twisted panties, IMO.

How about a difference between vr 15 and 18? hmm? And how much material it will take?

AssaultLemming

Upgrading takes tempers, I don't think the amount of tempers required to change the quality of an item had changed at all.

ADarklore

DDuke wrote: »

Also you'll have to determine whether players actually know what's best for them (touched on this in my previous post).

If you want to know why all modern MMOs have such a low player retention rate & why they haven't been successful, you'll need to look no further.

Glad you have such little confidence in other players that you feel someone else has to decide whats best for them.

Further, you talk about all modern MMOs having such low player retention... and YOUR view is based upon WHAT numbers?!? Considering how many there are, and many are still active and haven't shut down, I'm curious.

Also, one of the reasons some MMOs have low quantity of players is because there are so many that players are spread out. Further, there are many many more players in play now than before, and as I said, those who were die-hard MMO players were already a minority in the gaming world but had few games to choose from. Now, with all consoles and most PCs having high speed internet access, the online gaming world has been flooded by many many more players, and considering most of those were solo, single-player gamers, obviously they are going to try a variety of online games and see which one they like- or play them in a rotation. The point is, many of those "low player retention" MMOs are still active, but the online gaming world has changed and therefore online games themselves need to change in order to attract the new majority of online gamers because trying to compete for the minority would not be financially viable with the availability of so many online games today.

sadownik

ADarklore wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Also you'll have to determine whether players actually know what's best for them (touched on this in my previous post).

If you want to know why all modern MMOs have such a low player retention rate & why they haven't been successful, you'll need to look no further.

Glad you have such little confidence in other players that you feel someone else has to decide whats best for them.

Further, you talk about all modern MMOs having such low player retention... and YOUR view is based upon WHAT numbers?!? Considering how many there are, and many are still active and haven't shut down, I'm curious.

Also, one of the reasons some MMOs have low quantity of players is because there are so many that players are spread out. Further, there are many many more players in play now than before, and as I said, those who were die-hard MMO players were already a minority in the gaming world but had few games to choose from. Now, with all consoles and most PCs having high speed internet access, the online gaming world has been flooded by many many more players, and considering most of those were solo, single-player gamers, obviously they are going to try a variety of online games and see which one they like- or play them in a rotation. The point is, many of those "low player retention" MMOs are still active, but the online gaming world has changed and therefore online games themselves need to change in order to attract the new majority of online gamers because trying to compete for the minority would not be financially viable with the availability of so many online games today.

You are right of course, but be prepared for "back in my days we had it much harder" and "i blame that young generation of entilted whinners that want everything now and for free. Go and work for it".

Its like, although im 37 years old @DDuke seems to know better what is good for me.

Furthermore @DDuke doesnt understand that gamers today are totally different breed than even 10 years ago. We grown up and simply dont have that much time. Do i want to spend that very limited time i have on constant grind for stones, nimcrux, rare materials? I know i dont.

daemonios

DDuke wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

I really have to wonder about ZOS. They claim they LISTEN to feedback, yet, here we have a topic that has tons of threads, with tons of comments, all in complete disapproval of their plan- and yet, are they actually LISTENING... it appears NOT. So what is the point of giving feedback, if the overwhelming majority of players disagree and yet they don't listen anyway.

I don't think you understand what the word complete means ^^

Or the word "majority"... you shouldn't throw that around without factual evidence to back it up.

Most people I've talked to in game are happy about high end crafting requiring more effort now (finally).
It's not like crafting being too easy & giving too powerful gear has been one of the top complaints about this game...


Also, this is actually what most MMOs have got wrong: people do not quit MMOs because things are too difficult - people quit MMOs because they've completed everything, or things are too easy & it becomes boring.

Things that are hard to achieve give you goals & reasons to keep playing.


Do you ever wonder why WoW for instance started losing subscribers after they started dumbing down everything to appease the forum whiners, when they started giving around welfare epics, removing attunements etc?

Well, there's your reason.


The "I want everything and I want it now!!" generation of gamers is digging its own grave by demanding the game to end sooner.


That is not to say there shouldn't be easier goals to reach as well, easier dungeons to do etc.

But high end stuff must always be difficult & time demanding.

Sorry, I strongly disagree. Simply multiplying material requirements by 10 while not adding regular harvesting nodes is the laziest solution possible (though one with strong potential for crown store cash-in) and inconsistent with crafting as a whole.

To add insult to injury, they've placed the new set crafting stations behind a PvP gankfest wall (goodbye pure crafter alts!), said crafted sets require only 6 traits (you spent months researching 9 traits on every piece? Ha! Joke's on you!) and the current 9-trait sets remain largely useless and unused.

If it really was their intention to cater to crafters, I'm gonna have to say they've failed.

DDuke

sadownik wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Also you'll have to determine whether players actually know what's best for them (touched on this in my previous post).

If you want to know why all modern MMOs have such a low player retention rate & why they haven't been successful, you'll need to look no further.

Glad you have such little confidence in other players that you feel someone else has to decide whats best for them.

Further, you talk about all modern MMOs having such low player retention... and YOUR view is based upon WHAT numbers?!? Considering how many there are, and many are still active and haven't shut down, I'm curious.

Also, one of the reasons some MMOs have low quantity of players is because there are so many that players are spread out. Further, there are many many more players in play now than before, and as I said, those who were die-hard MMO players were already a minority in the gaming world but had few games to choose from. Now, with all consoles and most PCs having high speed internet access, the online gaming world has been flooded by many many more players, and considering most of those were solo, single-player gamers, obviously they are going to try a variety of online games and see which one they like- or play them in a rotation. The point is, many of those "low player retention" MMOs are still active, but the online gaming world has changed and therefore online games themselves need to change in order to attract the new majority of online gamers because trying to compete for the minority would not be financially viable with the availability of so many online games today.

You are right of course, but be prepared for "back in my days we had it much harder" and "i blame that young generation of entilted whinners that want everything now and for free. Go and work for it".

Its like, although im 37 years old @DDuke seems to know better what is good for me.

Furthermore @DDuke doesnt understand that gamers today are totally different breed than even 10 years ago. We grown up and simply dont have that much time. Do i want to spend that very limited time i have on constant grind for stones, nimcrux, rare materials? I know i dont.

Nice straw man, I never said I would know what is good for you.

That said, the vibe I'm getting from your post is: "I just want to finish this game, so I can move on to other games", but do correct me if I'm wrong.

MMOs are not meant to be finished, there's always supposed to be things to do, meaningful goals to work towards.

They are not single player games where you hit max. level in and leave because you finished the story and almost instantaneously got the best gear by visiting the crafting station.

That said, I would prefer things being time demanding because they're difficult (e.g. raids with long progression & difficulty curve), but, alas, that's not what we're getting so this is the second best thing.

BuggeX

Takllin wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Ohhh, I'm so filled with joy! I will absolutely spend countless hours and obscene amounts of gold/ap/tv to get all the mats to get the aprox 1.2k (120k tv stones worth) mats I'll need to craft just 1 set of V16 gear. And then I'll do it about 7 more times to cover all my loadouts on both my chars. Totally.

Nahhhhhhhhhhh, guess what, I'm just gonna stick w/ V15 gear that costs 10x less to make and only has about 10 less armor and 1-2 fewer points on the set bonuses!

ZOS, you guys are such unbelievable geniuses!

ZoS Logic

Also will be doing the same here, there is no reason to make v16 gear with that steep of an upgrade cost for such a small gain.

There is, i still prefer to yell, i have all v16 legendary than to say v15 legendary