Confirmed Material Amount for v16 Gear

LunaRae

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

In the next PTS build, we've bumped the chance to get an ingot up to 100% (from 50%) when deconstructing a piece of VR15/16 gear.

Happy crafting!

I truly wish ZOS would understand they're missing the mark when it comes to designing end-game content. As everyone has said making an arbitrary decision to increase mat cost for V16 is silly and obviously just a gimmick to make progression to V16 gear longer (not even harder, just more time consuming).

IMO even gold quality gear and mats still isn't worth it (been playing since beta, never had a full gold set, ever), the cost and time investment does not justify the ever so slight improvement to stats, same goes for V15 to V16 gear. We need meaningful gear progression. I want to say my V16, gold quality gear makes a noticeable difference when I PvP/PvE.. right now it doesn't.

I think ZOS is having a hard time balancing gear progression and making PvP/PvE accessible to all players and this is just another example where it makes no sense for end-game players to put all this effort into the extra measly stats they provide.

G0ku

Funny idea? Make the writs which deliver glass armour recipes require V16 items to fulfill. Then this idiocrazy gets perfect.

HeroOfNone

40 Tel Var for an ingot, around 140 ingots in a piece, so 5600 tel var for a piece of v16 armor? Assuming 140 is an average material estimate that negates drops, for 7 armor pieces you're looking at around 39200 tel var stones, include 2 weapons and 2 shield and it's around 61600.

Oh and don't forget runes, which are sold at about 800 TV stones. For the armor you'd be looking at 5600. Combine that with the sword and shields your at 8800.

For jewelry, since the runes normally suck, 2400 more stones.

The full estimated bill for a v16 set might be around: 61600 + 8800 + 2400 = 72800 tel var stones


At least it's a bit less than the merchant gear at 70000 for the full armor...

Takllin

G0ku wrote: »

Funny idea? Make the writs which deliver glass armour recipes require V16 items to fulfill. Then this idiocrazy gets perfect.

Wait they didn't implement a new writ level for the new materials? So you can use voidstone to get back new gear and glass armor recipes?

Takllin

HeroOfNone wrote: »

40 TV for and ingot, around 140 ingots in a piece, so 5600 tel var for a piece of v16 armor? Assuming 140 is an average material estimate that negates drops, for a 7 armor you're looking at around 39200 tel var stones, include 2 weapons and 2 shield and it's around 61600.

Oh and don't forget runes, which are 9npt sold at about 800 TV stones. For the armor you'd be looking at 5600. Combine that with the sword and shields your at 8800.

For jewelry, since the runes normally suck, 2400 more stones.

A full bill for a v16 set might be around 61600 + 8800 + 2400 = 72800 tel var stones


At least it's a bit less than the merchant gear at 70000 for the full armor...

You know at first I laughed a lot at how ridiculous that number is...but it's really just sad. Did no one at ZoS think about this before they implemented it? Maybe someone from the Analytics division could come in here with some 'flawless' logic to explain this one.

daemonios

ZOS' strategy is pretty transparent here. They moved to a cash-store model so they need revenue. Ergo, the new level armour can only be crafted by getting the materials in the DLC areas. But that's not enough, since they didn't want to make the materials bound. If all you needed were the typical 10-15 materials per piece of armour/weapon, even if they are hard to come by, many people would just buy them in-game. By forcing an order of magnitude requirement, they're implying they want the materials to be prohibitively expensive in player trades. You CAN theoretically farm the gold to buy the ~2000 ingots required for a full VR16 set; but it's quicker (yay, convenience!) to pay for the DLC, or to wait until the materials are inevitably added to the crown store.

I've been to the PTS and quite liked the new zones. But I'm a bit annoyed that ZOS are making EVERYONE jump through hoops, even subscribers like me, because they saw an opportunity to drive up sales.

G0ku

Takllin wrote: »

G0ku wrote: »

Funny idea? Make the writs which deliver glass armour recipes require V16 items to fulfill. Then this idiocrazy gets perfect.

Wait they didn't implement a new writ level for the new materials? So you can use voidstone to get back new gear and glass armor recipes?

I don´t know anything specific, I just expect them to do sth. like this.

Another funny idea: implement platin keys for vet pledges VR16 so all gold keys which were accumulated in anticipation of VR16 monster sets get worthless....

Takllin

G0ku wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

G0ku wrote: »

Funny idea? Make the writs which deliver glass armour recipes require V16 items to fulfill. Then this idiocrazy gets perfect.

Wait they didn't implement a new writ level for the new materials? So you can use voidstone to get back new gear and glass armor recipes?

I don´t know anything specific, I just expect them to do sth. like this.

Another funny idea: implement platin keys for vet pledges VR16 so all gold keys which were accumulated in anticipation of VR16 monster sets get worthless....

I thought I heard Deltia say during a stream the other day to save all the writ bags you do now because they would have the updated ingredients and recipes when the update drops.

Also, like they need more ideas to enrage the players :P

HeroOfNone

Takllin wrote: »

G0ku wrote: »

Funny idea? Make the writs which deliver glass armour recipes require V16 items to fulfill. Then this idiocrazy gets perfect.

Wait they didn't implement a new writ level for the new materials? So you can use voidstone to get back new gear and glass armor recipes?

I've done writs, it only uses void mats, but does not give back Imperial City mats. You have a chance for the glass motif scraps, iv gotten about 2-3 from doing 12 writs so far.


Well, folks have been talking about how to get more gold sinks.

Tyr

I'm not seeing an issue with the drop rates as it stands now. Every time you close a portal you get a chest with an item, and I've been getting 1-2 white drops per hour grinding mobs and bosses in a PUG in the sewers.

Altogether, it comes to about 5-6 drops per hour and ~300-500 TvS so maybe 6-8 crafting materials per hour worth with both.

With the doubling of decon chance it will be something like 8-11 per hour, so 1-2 hours of play to craft a VR15 item and about 15 hours of play to craft a VR16 item.

I also don't see the problem with having a top tier item take 10X longer to obtain than the teir below.
This has pretty much been the structure of how WoW has spread out Purple and Blue gear for years successful.

Because anyone can upgrade items with just gold in this game, there needed to be another top tier threshold and in this case it's VR16 items.

I mean it took weeks to craft epic items in WoW as well at the peak of it's popularity and that was because they put up a timer on how fast you could craft as well. At least here if you've got the gold, you can do it much faster.

It's a good system overall that will get the most dedicated players geared in the best VR16 sets before the next DLC to comes out while the casual/semi-casual players will be in VR15 gear mostly.

It seems like that kind of gearing progression curve is what players who are traditional MMO fans have been asking for for a while now.

MisterJimothy

Tyr wrote: »

I'm not seeing an issue with the drop rates as it stands now. Every time you close a portal you get a chest with an item, and I've been getting 1-2 white drops per hour grinding mobs and bosses in a PUG in the sewers.

Altogether, it comes to about 5-6 drops per hour and ~300-500 TvS so maybe 6-8 crafting materials per hour worth with both.

With the doubling of decon chance it will be something like 8-11 per hour, so 1-2 hours of play to craft a VR15 item and about 15 hours of play to craft a VR16 item.

I also don't see the problem with having a top tier item take 10X longer to obtain than the teir below.
This has pretty much been the structure of how WoW has spread out Purple and Blue gear for years successful.

Because anyone can upgrade items with just gold in this game, there needed to be another top tier threshold and in this case it's VR16 items.

I mean it took weeks to craft epic items in WoW as well at the peak of it's popularity and that was because they put up a timer on how fast you could craft as well. At least here if you've got the gold, you can do it much faster.

It's a good system overall that will get the most dedicated players geared in the best VR16 sets before the next DLC to comes out while the casual/semi-casual players will be in VR15 gear mostly.

It seems like that kind of gearing progression curve is what players who are traditional MMO fans have been asking for for a while now.

I agree with your viewpoint. As it currently exists, all top level crafting gear is really easy to get a hold of and mass produce like a factory with very little effort. This is simply a way to combat that. Is this the best way? Maybe not. But it works.

Want to have the edge in a min/max position? Work for it. Don't care for the minuscule upgrade? Craft V15. Done. I'm not sure what else could be done really. I mean, may give v16 a slight boost in stats than currently exists?

Dagoth_Rac

"Hardcore Corpse-Looting PvP with Tons of PvE mobs In the Way" just seems like such a niche appeal. That is not necessarily a bad thing. All kinds of players should get content they like sooner or later. But combining it with an increase in endgame level for all players, and adding in a bunch of heretofore unprecedented grinds to craft and acquire gear for the new endgame levels, is very unappealing.

If this had been a large expansion with all kinds of different content for different play styles, it would be different. People would end up acquiring this new stuff as a side effect of doing content they enjoy. But when the grind requires participating in content that most players will not enjoy, that is when you really feel the grind. Acquiring Caltrops and Barrier is an irritating grind for most PvE players, but it happens naturally for PvP players. Acquiring the Undaunted gear sets is an irritating grind for PvP players, but it happens naturally for PvE players.

Instead of ZOS realizing that is a problem, and trying to find ways to "hide the grind" by making it happen naturally as a part of doing content each person enjoys, they seem to have doubled down on the idea!

It is like ZOS have added all the worst parts of the large, infrequent expansions you see in other MMOs (level cap increases, gear grinds, crafting grinds, etc.), but only added a minimal amount of the best parts of the large, infrequent expansions you see in other MMOs (lots of new content designed to appeal to as many play styles as possible).

Or do ZOS think this content does have wide appeal? "Some people like hardcore PvP! Some people like casual PvP! Some people like PvE! Some people like crafting! If we mix that all together, everybody will be happy!" But that is like a chef saying, "Some people love tacos! Some people love spaghetti! Some people love peanut butter! If we mix that all together, everybody will be happy!" But it will end up having less appeal than if you had just concentrating on making really good tacos.

Recremen

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this. Wasn't high-level gear supposed to be gated by Legendary tempers and resins? Now it's double-gated, so experimenting with all the new builds and new armor sets and such is so much harder. Never mind trying to get sets for all your characters, you're lucky to have your main ever fully decked out at this point. Yeah, I get that they want to drive sales of IC up and that making it close to impossible for non-participants to get the gear might encourage some to buy it ... but it's already such a great DLC, so is that even necessary? It just seems so remarkably unnecessary, unless I'm missing something regarding the Tel Var shop. Maybe they're worried people will buy up all the armor they want from there too quickly and will have a wealth of stones to dump into the crafting supplies. Iunno, we'll see, but I really don't like it.

Anazasi

Maybe just maybe they did that for PTS only so players wouldn't be able to make the v16 gear. It could be intentional because they want players to have new content on live when it launches.

ROFL ha ha haha hahaha no they just that stupid.........

Garion

This patch continues to seem increasingly unattractive when I consider that I have four characters that I am going to need to gear.

Kyoma

ThePonzzz wrote: »

Man... You guys really need to think this through. I already understand the logic of making it cost 100+ materials and guaranteeing the drops of ingots, but it's not linear and it's not immersive.

By changing it to a 100% drop rate and requiring 10x the materials, you're fulfilling the gratification to players to feel they are progressing toward a goal. A long goal, but you're making the goal visible. You should continue along the lines of perfect roe and nirncrux though. Drop the rate of harvesting materials from decon to about 10% and make it take 15/16 ingots still, following a linear path that crafting has already started on.

By increasing the number needed, you're also destroying a chance of an economy being fostered here. Instead, the ingots will be too cheap because people want more. You can essentially cause a player market to shift from 10x more expensive to 10x cheaper. By having 100+ needed, you're also going to cause the market to be unstable because players won't feel it's worth their time to grind it out. There will be no steady residual value at all.

Please don't destroy the player economy and crafting in this game here. Focus on what the update should be, a PvP zone with PvE elements. Don't dabble in gear grinding too.

^This please.

Teiji

Faulgor wrote: »

Teiji wrote: »

Don't forget about the prop weaons in various Tel Var Stone gear screenshots;




None of these weapons are obtainable with Imperial City.

Expect them in a future update to Imperial City.

Damn, how did I not notice that yet.

How can they do it again!?

@Faulgor because there is no one brave enough whom can stop them.

Appropriate song;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcjpags7JT8

How is it an appropriate song?



The Tel Var Stone sets are not more powerful, at all. Which is anti-lore and anti-immersion as Tel Var Stones are important to the plot with their strong magical properties, so the gear should at least be strong, but not overpowering. With some sets being good across the board, whilst other sets are great only in specific set-ups.

But nope, heavy armor warriors are not allowed to look cool in Tel Var Stone gear, stick to your crafted sets or maybe Leeching Plate, Xivkyn armourers can create stronger gear than Tel Var Stone armourers, why waste their time invading Imperial City and having Tel Var Stones as an important plot device when if Molag Bal was to create great with Tel Var Stones it would be worse than the gear his Xivkyn legion already has.

What makes this even better? Zero Tel Var Stone weapons.

Tel Var Stone weapons should only be delayed if they are going to be comparable in strength to Master's weapons and difficult to obtain.

lonewolf26

While it is important that the PTS is still a work in progress and this is only the first revision we're testing, it would be nice to get this addressed and if it is a bug, fix it. I've included some examples of the problem I see with the cost scaling.

These cost scales are across the board on all weapon and armor types: 10-15 for vet 15 equipment and 100-150 for vet 16 equipment.

For the amount of time and resources you put into a vet 16 item, you'd expect to see some decent stat bumps. In the case of Hunding's the 5-set weapon damage remains unchanged between Vet 15 - Vet 16 and the remaining set bonuses receive only a minor bump in their values. I sincerely hope that the cost scaling is a bug and they intend on dropping the material cost. As they stand currently the vet 16 equipment is far too expensive.

Vet 15 Heavy Armor


Vet 16 Heavy


Vet 15 Hunding's Rage Jack


Vet 16 Huding's Rage Jack

Darlgon

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

In the next PTS build, we've bumped the chance to get an ingot up to 100% (from 50%) when deconstructing a piece of VR15/16 gear.

Happy crafting!

Umm.. No.. simply... NO..

Since no nodes for these mats, its either farm TV stones, to give to gankers on the way out of the zone, or decon mats from drops, for most people. And, yes, PVEers ARE ACTUALLY GOING TO BE PAYING FOR THIS EXPANSION TOO. So they can get thier VR15-16 gear to get ready for Orcsinium. They are just as bored as your AvA guys..

Are you going to go back and change all the other gear to have 100% chance to DROP ONLY ONE CRAFTING MAT? I mean, I get 2-5 for each piece of crap green gear I decon that I dont need with voidstone/voidcloth/nightwood, and about the same for all the gear level 1-VR10.

Rydik

10x mats cost is the most stupid thing I ever seen...

olsborg

Rydik wrote: »

10x mats cost is the most stupid thing I ever seen...

Agreed. If they double or tripled it, it would be agreeable, but anything more then that its just a grind and a hassle.

Teiji

I genuinely believed, was enthusiastic and very supportive when they said with Tamriel Unlimited's first DLC pack, they're addressing itemisation, with cool gear which looks great and is more than roleplay clothes, like Ebon Armory for example, an entire VR dungeon set where it's only reasonable purpose is to serve as RP gear.

I was wrong.



Enjoy all your combat and itemisation fixes as Nightblades become immune to single target damage for four seconds whilst also providing them with invisibility, Heavy Armor warriors now do damage comparable to being armed with pillow whilst everyone else's remains high, huge blanket reduction to damage, healing and Damge Shields, 150 materials to craft one piece of gear, which isn't a problem for many players but once again; TESO was always marketed as a casual friendly game, yet continues to create inconveniences for reason unbeknownst to many.

The community and developers deserve to choke TESO:TU? TESO:TU deserves to be bullied? Bullied into an inconvenient, anti-casual game where 'meta-gaming' is exploiting abilities which can't be dodge-rolled whilst bugging out your opponents break-free with 'epic' animation cancelling, whilst having buffs which last for an infinite duration, even when logging off and logging back on in some cases, which is insane.

Tannus15

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

In the next PTS build, we've bumped the chance to get an ingot up to 100% (from 50%) when deconstructing a piece of VR15/16 gear.

Happy crafting!

That the VR16 cost is intended is depressing as ***.

Combine this with the insane cost of the glass motif (325,000 gold assuming you only get the chapters you don't have) as a crafter I am completely uninterested in this update.

My excitement has completely been replaced with 'can I even be bothered?'

Tannus15

ThePonzzz wrote: »

Man... You guys really need to think this through. I already understand the logic of making it cost 100+ materials and guaranteeing the drops of ingots, but it's not linear and it's not immersive.

By changing it to a 100% drop rate and requiring 10x the materials, you're fulfilling the gratification to players to feel they are progressing toward a goal. A long goal, but you're making the goal visible. You should continue along the lines of perfect roe and nirncrux though. Drop the rate of harvesting materials from decon to about 10% and make it take 15/16 ingots still, following a linear path that crafting has already started on.

By increasing the number needed, you're also destroying a chance of an economy being fostered here. Instead, the ingots will be too cheap because people want more. You can essentially cause a player market to shift from 10x more expensive to 10x cheaper. By having 100+ needed, you're also going to cause the market to be unstable because players won't feel it's worth their time to grind it out. There will be no steady residual value at all.

Please don't destroy the player economy and crafting in this game here. Focus on what the update should be, a PvP zone with PvE elements. Don't dabble in gear grinding too.

Doing it this way would negatively affect the VR15 gear, effectively making the VR15 equally as hard to aquire.

Faulgor

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

In the next PTS build, we've bumped the chance to get an ingot up to 100% (from 50%) when deconstructing a piece of VR15/16 gear.

Happy crafting!

Thanks! That's actually what I was hoping for

Nebthet78

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

In the next PTS build, we've bumped the chance to get an ingot up to 100% (from 50%) when deconstructing a piece of VR15/16 gear.

Happy crafting!

Great.. at least that is one tip toe in the right direction.

Now how about you guys make it completely right and make it so ALL scaled V15/16 mobs in ALL dungeons drop the white gear for Crafters to deconstruct!

This would keep Mat gain for PVE players near par with the PVP players gaining mats through Tel Var vendor purchases.


That, or remove the ability to buy mats from vendors with the tel var stones so every one has to grind the dungeons for them.

If you guys think the whining now is bad, just wait until the console players realize what is happening with IC and the grind walls you have built. It will not be kind.

Makkir

Teargrants wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

In the next PTS build, we've bumped the chance to get an ingot up to 100% (from 50%) when deconstructing a piece of VR15/16 gear.

Happy crafting!

Um yeah...that's not what ppl are upset about.

Ppl are upset that it arbitrarily costs 10x as many mats to craft V16 compared to V15 gear while offering pretty much nothing in improvements stats wise - making the entire idea of crafting V16 essentially "not worth it". Said ppl see it for what it is, a poorly engineered attempt to add another massive time sink to the game instead of providing one in the form of meaningful content.

ALL dem Worthy Bags got a little more worthwhile

Jakeol

I was surprised they upped the cost from 130 -> 150 per piece. It's cool that they made it 100% drop rate for mats, even if its 1 mat per decon, I would be GUARANTEED 1 per decon, when you run into the sewers/IC and come back with full bags, the time is really going to pass and people will be able to gear in no time.


Sure there is no instant gratification, but part of video gaming is that work reward feeling. If you want instant gratification maybe go play world of warcraft

Sharee

Teargrants wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

In the next PTS build, we've bumped the chance to get an ingot up to 100% (from 50%) when deconstructing a piece of VR15/16 gear.

Happy crafting!

Um yeah...that's not what ppl are upset about.

Ppl are upset that it arbitrarily costs 10x as many mats to craft V16 compared to V15 gear while offering pretty much nothing in improvements stats wise - making the entire idea of crafting V16 essentially "not worth it".

I think that was the intent behind making v15 gear 10x cheaper than v16. This makes the v15 gear something you want right now, and v16 something that is not worth it right now, but worth it in the long run (slowly replacing the v15 pieces as you gain enough materials). That way the players get both an instant improvement, and a long term goal.

AssaultLemming

I don't have a problem with the cost really, should be easy to craft some vr15 purple and then slowly upgrade to gold. It's nice to think that there might be a raw material that has some value for once, because the crafting economy is in a terrible state right now, crafted items aren't worth anything at all.