Confirmed Material Amount for v16 Gear

Faulgor

I'll just stick with purple VR14 gear and then slowly replace it with gold VR16. Others might think that's not worth the effort and only go for VR15, so this system should work for several playstyles. With a 100% droprate from decosntructing, estimating from current droprates, about a dozen dungeon runs could give enough to craft an endgame piece of gear. I think that's fair.

My goal for this update is a VR16 legendary heavy glass helmet, and I know I'll enjoy working towards it. Especially because I won't be able to get it on day 1 or 2.

Teargrants

Sharee wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

In the next PTS build, we've bumped the chance to get an ingot up to 100% (from 50%) when deconstructing a piece of VR15/16 gear.

Happy crafting!

Um yeah...that's not what ppl are upset about.

Ppl are upset that it arbitrarily costs 10x as many mats to craft V16 compared to V15 gear while offering pretty much nothing in improvements stats wise - making the entire idea of crafting V16 essentially "not worth it".

I think that was the intent behind making v15 gear 10x cheaper than v16. This makes the v15 gear something you want right now, and v16 something that is not worth it right now, but worth it in the long run (slowly replacing the v15 pieces as you gain enough materials). That way the players get both an instant improvement, and a long term goal.

The long term goal of increasing my magicka regen by 2 whole points? Um no? That's not gona motivate me to grind hours upon hours per piece of V16 gear.

If that was the intention, it was a moronic intention. I can come up w/ a better idea off the top of my head right here: V16 gear costs a normal amount of mats to make, but add a system that allows crafters to "overcharge" the gear when they craft it by adding in more mats (say up to 100 more). Every 10 mats added corresponds to +1% on all the gear stats (armor + set bonus + maybe enchant size) up to a max of +10%. Of course every mat you add increases the chance of failure, resulting in losing all the mats involved. You can add a passive in each crafting line to improve the success rate.

There you go ZOS, a crafting system w/ added depth that isn't just putting an extra zero on crafting numbers to try and force players into some kind of Machiavellian grind/time sink. My idea would result in about the same amount of grind for ppl that want absolute maxed out gear - and it would provide a reward that's actually worth it, but w/o forcing ppl into it.

Lionxoft

Takllin wrote: »

I noticed this from Kai who posted in the German boards to someone who asked about the 150 material cost to craft v16 gear:

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

Menelaos wrote: »

Mist, und ich wollte bei euch persönlich fragen, ob das mit den 150 Mats pro Vet 16 Item tatsächlich so gemeint ist

Das ist tatsächlich so gemeint und kein Tippfehler.

Which translates in English to: This is actually meant so and not a typo .

So while many of us assumed that this was the case because ZoS had stayed silent on this, it's now been officially confirmed.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_JessicaFolsom What is the reasoning behind this absurd change? You've kept awfully quiet about this... It is a pointless mechanic only designed to make the player grind out a lot more ingredients to craft their gear...

Ingot Shipments incoming to the Crown Store as a "Convenience Item"! I'm joking but you know it's probably going to happen.

Sharee

Teargrants wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

In the next PTS build, we've bumped the chance to get an ingot up to 100% (from 50%) when deconstructing a piece of VR15/16 gear.

Happy crafting!

Um yeah...that's not what ppl are upset about.

Ppl are upset that it arbitrarily costs 10x as many mats to craft V16 compared to V15 gear while offering pretty much nothing in improvements stats wise - making the entire idea of crafting V16 essentially "not worth it".

I think that was the intent behind making v15 gear 10x cheaper than v16. This makes the v15 gear something you want right now, and v16 something that is not worth it right now, but worth it in the long run (slowly replacing the v15 pieces as you gain enough materials). That way the players get both an instant improvement, and a long term goal.

The long term goal of increasing my magicka regen by 2 whole points? Um no? That's not gona motivate me to grind hours upon hours per piece of V16 gear.

That's exactly the point. It is not supposed to motivate you to grind, at all. It is supposed to give you a way to upgrade your character eventually, after you gain enough mats for an upgrade by playing normally.

If the increase was big enough to warrant a grind, everyone would have to grind, whether he wants or not, just to not fall behind in power.

Gyudan

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

In the next PTS build, we've bumped the chance to get an ingot up to 100% (from 50%) when deconstructing a piece of VR15/16 gear.

Happy crafting!

@ZOS_RichLambert The following would be better imo:
25% chances to get nothing.
50% chances to get 1 ingot.
25% chances to get 2 ingots.

Getting identical results each time is slightly boring.

pppontus

Nebthet78 wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

In the next PTS build, we've bumped the chance to get an ingot up to 100% (from 50%) when deconstructing a piece of VR15/16 gear.

Happy crafting!

That, or remove the ability to buy mats from vendors with the tel var stones so every one has to grind the dungeons for them.

Are you real?

Update comes out stated for PvPers, person wants the ability to gain materials to be gated behind PvE only. Could only be suggested by a true PvE'r.

Vegaroth

that huge increase in the materials required for lvl v16 is not "progression", is a huge gap than will make lvl v16 crafting unworth , is not about the time to grind or the cost of the materials is the balance between item made / materials required.... if we compare the stats between lvl v15 and v16 the difference is minimal but the materials are increased 10x, what will be then the amount in materials for the next tier? 1000 per item? because we have to face it, we will be around at least veteran 20+ when they finally start really working on the removing of veterans levels.
We are in crafting facing something like if they suddenly say " each veteran rank is 1mill xp, but from veteran 15 to veteran 16 u will need 10 million xp, but dont worry we are doubling the xp u will get from your crafting dailies. Happy leveling! " .

Sharee

Vegaroth wrote: »

that huge increase in the materials required for lvl v16 is not "progression", is a huge gap than will make lvl v16 crafting unworth .

V 16 crafting will never be 'unworth', because what else are you going to use the materials on if you already have a v15 set?

Rosveen

Sharee wrote: »

Vegaroth wrote: »

that huge increase in the materials required for lvl v16 is not "progression", is a huge gap than will make lvl v16 crafting unworth .

V 16 crafting will never be 'unworth', because what else are you going to use the materials on if you already have a v15 set?

Outfitting alts. Good luck with crafting v16 sets for four characters.

Also, isn't it basically what happens to all other material tiers? Once you have your gear, you don't need more. That's one reason for the implementation of writs as a material sink.

Sharee

Rosveen wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Vegaroth wrote: »

that huge increase in the materials required for lvl v16 is not "progression", is a huge gap than will make lvl v16 crafting unworth .

V 16 crafting will never be 'unworth', because what else are you going to use the materials on if you already have a v15 set?

Outfitting alts. Good luck with crafting v16 sets for four characters.

Im not saying it will be fast, im saying it will be worth it because theres nothing else to spend the materials on once you already have v15 equipment done.

byrom101b16_ESO

pppontus wrote: »

Nebthet78 wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

In the next PTS build, we've bumped the chance to get an ingot up to 100% (from 50%) when deconstructing a piece of VR15/16 gear.

Happy crafting!

That, or remove the ability to buy mats from vendors with the tel var stones so every one has to grind the dungeons for them.

Are you real?

Update comes out stated for PvPers, person wants the ability to gain materials to be gated behind PvE only. Could only be suggested by a true PvE'r.

Stop being so blinkered.

They stuck PvE progression behind a PvP wall.

The PvE'ers don't want it and the PvP'ers don't need it.

It is foolish in the extreme to define this issue as a PvP (us) vs. a PvE (them) argument and Zenimax laugh every time the cynical and divisive decisions they make us turn on each other instead of them.

Lionxoft

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Nebthet78 wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

In the next PTS build, we've bumped the chance to get an ingot up to 100% (from 50%) when deconstructing a piece of VR15/16 gear.

Happy crafting!

That, or remove the ability to buy mats from vendors with the tel var stones so every one has to grind the dungeons for them.

Are you real?

Update comes out stated for PvPers, person wants the ability to gain materials to be gated behind PvE only. Could only be suggested by a true PvE'r.

Stop being so blinkered.

They stuck PvE progression behind a PvP wall.

The PvE'ers don't want it and the PvP'ers don't need it.

It is foolish in the extreme to define this issue as a PvP (us) vs. a PvE (them) argument and Zenimax laugh every time the cynical and divisive decisions they make us turn on each other instead of them.

Weird, the last time I checked you get Tel Var stones from boss fights in group dungeons. So when were group dungeons considered PvP content?

Menelaos

Hi folks,

and yes, I was also a bit surprised when Kai wrote this in a so straightforward way. I just hope ZOS does never again raise their Vet cap again or someone will drop a nuke on their office.

Concerning the Tel Var Stones: Someone wrote the carfting mats would cost 40 TV per piece. Right now on PTS they cost 100 however. Where did you get this 40 TV price from?

Sharee

Lionxoft wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Nebthet78 wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

In the next PTS build, we've bumped the chance to get an ingot up to 100% (from 50%) when deconstructing a piece of VR15/16 gear.

Happy crafting!

That, or remove the ability to buy mats from vendors with the tel var stones so every one has to grind the dungeons for them.

Are you real?

Update comes out stated for PvPers, person wants the ability to gain materials to be gated behind PvE only. Could only be suggested by a true PvE'r.

Stop being so blinkered.

They stuck PvE progression behind a PvP wall.

The PvE'ers don't want it and the PvP'ers don't need it.

It is foolish in the extreme to define this issue as a PvP (us) vs. a PvE (them) argument and Zenimax laugh every time the cynical and divisive decisions they make us turn on each other instead of them.

Weird, the last time I checked you get Tel Var stones from boss fights in group dungeons. So when were group dungeons considered PvP content?

Not exactly. TV stones only drop in PvP-enabled areas, and the group dungeons aren't.

However, the group dungeon bosses drop gear that can be deconstructed for the new materials, which means each item dropped from boss is as good as 100 TV stones (assuming you planned to spend them on buying materials).

Junglejim82

I find it ridiculous the amount it's been raised but let's be honest it's just another grind/time sink to keep you playing . What self respecting mmo player won't want to be in top tier gear? I include myself so while we'll all qq and rightfully so we'll still just get on with it regardless and craft it . Especially pvp guys. This is mmo life

Raizin

Tankqull wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

In the next PTS build, we've bumped the chance to get an ingot up to 100% (from 50%) when deconstructing a piece of VR15/16 gear.

Happy crafting!

Thank you for increasing it, but a single ingot? When it costs 100+ to craft a single piece of gear?

well you are not going to gather mats by deconstructing but via TvS - you´ll gather 100 stones faster than 1 piece to decon...
alternativly you can spend money on the soon to be anounced crown shop craftmat bundles...
just in remembrence
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2luhwy3KAE0

hahahah so true... fkin fremium crap.

Raizin

ThePonzzz wrote: »

Man... You guys really need to think this through. I already understand the logic of making it cost 100+ materials and guaranteeing the drops of ingots, but it's not linear and it's not immersive.

By changing it to a 100% drop rate and requiring 10x the materials, you're fulfilling the gratification to players to feel they are progressing toward a goal. A long goal, but you're making the goal visible. You should continue along the lines of perfect roe and nirncrux though. Drop the rate of harvesting materials from decon to about 10% and make it take 15/16 ingots still, following a linear path that crafting has already started on.

By increasing the number needed, you're also destroying a chance of an economy being fostered here. Instead, the ingots will be too cheap because people want more. You can essentially cause a player market to shift from 10x more expensive to 10x cheaper. By having 100+ needed, you're also going to cause the market to be unstable because players won't feel it's worth their time to grind it out. There will be no steady residual value at all.

Please don't destroy the player economy and crafting in this game here. Focus on what the update should be, a PvP zone with PvE elements. Don't dabble in gear grinding too.

theres no reason to wear v16 anyhow at this point, u ll just make v15 gold gear = v16 purple gear. np.

daemonios

Raizin wrote: »

ThePonzzz wrote: »

Man... You guys really need to think this through. I already understand the logic of making it cost 100+ materials and guaranteeing the drops of ingots, but it's not linear and it's not immersive.

By changing it to a 100% drop rate and requiring 10x the materials, you're fulfilling the gratification to players to feel they are progressing toward a goal. A long goal, but you're making the goal visible. You should continue along the lines of perfect roe and nirncrux though. Drop the rate of harvesting materials from decon to about 10% and make it take 15/16 ingots still, following a linear path that crafting has already started on.

By increasing the number needed, you're also destroying a chance of an economy being fostered here. Instead, the ingots will be too cheap because people want more. You can essentially cause a player market to shift from 10x more expensive to 10x cheaper. By having 100+ needed, you're also going to cause the market to be unstable because players won't feel it's worth their time to grind it out. There will be no steady residual value at all.

Please don't destroy the player economy and crafting in this game here. Focus on what the update should be, a PvP zone with PvE elements. Don't dabble in gear grinding too.

theres no reason to wear v16 anyhow at this point, u ll just make v15 gold gear = v16 purple gear. np.

By that logic, why bother with V15? We have perfectly serviceable V14 gear right now...

Truth is, ZOS want to force people to play the game regardless of content, and they want an excuse to add "convenient" items to the crown store so people will be lured into paying to bypass the "time sink".

Lionxoft

Sharee wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Nebthet78 wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

In the next PTS build, we've bumped the chance to get an ingot up to 100% (from 50%) when deconstructing a piece of VR15/16 gear.

Happy crafting!

That, or remove the ability to buy mats from vendors with the tel var stones so every one has to grind the dungeons for them.

Are you real?

Update comes out stated for PvPers, person wants the ability to gain materials to be gated behind PvE only. Could only be suggested by a true PvE'r.

Stop being so blinkered.

They stuck PvE progression behind a PvP wall.

The PvE'ers don't want it and the PvP'ers don't need it.

It is foolish in the extreme to define this issue as a PvP (us) vs. a PvE (them) argument and Zenimax laugh every time the cynical and divisive decisions they make us turn on each other instead of them.

Weird, the last time I checked you get Tel Var stones from boss fights in group dungeons. So when were group dungeons considered PvP content?

Not exactly. TV stones only drop in PvP-enabled areas, and the group dungeons aren't.

However, the group dungeon bosses drop gear that can be deconstructed for the new materials, which means each item dropped from boss is as good as 100 TV stones (assuming you planned to spend them on buying materials).

Must have been the associated quest then.

Lionxoft

daemonios wrote: »

Raizin wrote: »

ThePonzzz wrote: »

Man... You guys really need to think this through. I already understand the logic of making it cost 100+ materials and guaranteeing the drops of ingots, but it's not linear and it's not immersive.

By changing it to a 100% drop rate and requiring 10x the materials, you're fulfilling the gratification to players to feel they are progressing toward a goal. A long goal, but you're making the goal visible. You should continue along the lines of perfect roe and nirncrux though. Drop the rate of harvesting materials from decon to about 10% and make it take 15/16 ingots still, following a linear path that crafting has already started on.

By increasing the number needed, you're also destroying a chance of an economy being fostered here. Instead, the ingots will be too cheap because people want more. You can essentially cause a player market to shift from 10x more expensive to 10x cheaper. By having 100+ needed, you're also going to cause the market to be unstable because players won't feel it's worth their time to grind it out. There will be no steady residual value at all.

Please don't destroy the player economy and crafting in this game here. Focus on what the update should be, a PvP zone with PvE elements. Don't dabble in gear grinding too.

theres no reason to wear v16 anyhow at this point, u ll just make v15 gold gear = v16 purple gear. np.

(snip)
Truth is, ZOS want to force people to play the game regardless of content, and they want an excuse to add "convenient" items to the crown store so people will be lured into paying to bypass the "time sink".

My prediction but I believe this is exactly what they will be doing. "Material Shipments" or something named in the same stupid manner will be offered in the shop. It's not gear so it slides right past their previous commitment. I expect the entire game to be on the Crown Store before the year is up. The glass motif items are another example.

Make things ridiculously tedious or expensive to obtain in-game while offering an immediate version on the Crown Store to cater to the lazy folks.

Chillic

Soon we will find out just how much they are /lurking and willing to listen to the community, as they say they always do. This does not seem to be an argument, for once, among the community as it looks like we are all on the same page.

KerinKor

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

In the next PTS build, we've bumped the chance to get an ingot up to 100% (from 50%) when deconstructing a piece of VR15/16 gear.

Happy crafting!

That doesn't address the issue, at all.

HeroOfNone

Well, with a 100% deconstruct rate, this makes any Imperial City junk items worth 40 Tel var stones at least, assuming they don't give 2 or 3 ingots. For the care bears out there that like running dungeons, you can normally get 25-40 items per dungeon, assuming some will be dropped in the scaled up vet dungeons. This means each run is potentially 1000-1600 per run. I'll confirm running dome quick dungeons tonight maybe.

Nebthet78

pppontus wrote: »

Nebthet78 wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

In the next PTS build, we've bumped the chance to get an ingot up to 100% (from 50%) when deconstructing a piece of VR15/16 gear.

Happy crafting!

That, or remove the ability to buy mats from vendors with the tel var stones so every one has to grind the dungeons for them.

Are you real?

Update comes out stated for PvPers, person wants the ability to gain materials to be gated behind PvE only. Could only be suggested by a true PvE'r.

No I am not being completely real, because the arguments to prevent PVE players from being able to gain the mats at a reasonable rate outside the Tel Var stone system and in the dungeons instead are just as idiotic! They shouldn't be forced to grind and grind to get the mats. ALL mobs in ALL scaled dungeons should drop white v15/16 armor/weapon/glyphs for deconstruction.

The fact that ZOS has placed PVE Progression behind a PVP wall, which is exactly what has happened is also the dumbest decision ever made. This is creating a much larger rift in this community than was previously present.

Yes I blame @ZOS_RichLambert for this and the PVP vs PVE infighting that is blowing up on the PTS forums. It will hurt the game and their revenue and it serves them right!

It's almost like they are creating drama on purpose to hide the slippery slop of sitting on the edge of being P2W game, especially with data-mining showing mats being in the Crown Store.

HeroOfNone wrote: »

Well, with a 100% deconstruct rate, this makes any Imperial City junk items worth 40 Tel var stones at least, assuming they don't give 2 or 3 ingots. For the care bears out there that like running dungeons, you can normally get 25-40 items per dungeon, assuming some will be dropped in the scaled up vet dungeons. This means each run is potentially 1000-1600 per run. I'll confirm running dome quick dungeons tonight maybe.

You are one of the players who is not aware that the V15/16 weapon drops only come from bosses and mini bosses. Which means players will get only 6-10 items per dungeon run for deconstruction.

That is part of why a lot of PVE players are p**s*d about.

All the mobs drop are V14 gear even if the dungeon is scaled to V16.

HeroOfNone

Nebthet78 wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Nebthet78 wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

In the next PTS build, we've bumped the chance to get an ingot up to 100% (from 50%) when deconstructing a piece of VR15/16 gear.

Happy crafting!

That, or remove the ability to buy mats from vendors with the tel var stones so every one has to grind the dungeons for them.

Are you real?

Update comes out stated for PvPers, person wants the ability to gain materials to be gated behind PvE only. Could only be suggested by a true PvE'r.

No I am not being completely real, because the arguments to prevent PVE players from being able to gain the mats at a reasonable rate outside the Tel Var stone system and in the dungeons instead are just as idiotic! They shouldn't be forced to grind and grind to get the mats. ALL mobs in ALL scaled dungeons should drop white v15/16 armor/weapon/glyphs for deconstruction.

The fact that ZOS has placed PVE Progression behind a PVP wall, which is exactly what has happened is also the dumbest decision ever made. This is creating a much larger rift in this community than was previously present.

Yes I blame @ZOS_RichLambert for this and the PVP vs PVE infighting that is blowing up on the PTS forums. It will hurt the game and their revenue and it serves them right!

It's almost like they are creating drama on purpose to hide the slippery slop of sitting on the edge of being P2W game, especially with data-mining showing mats being in the Crown Store.

HeroOfNone wrote: »

Well, with a 100% deconstruct rate, this makes any Imperial City junk items worth 40 Tel var stones at least, assuming they don't give 2 or 3 ingots. For the care bears out there that like running dungeons, you can normally get 25-40 items per dungeon, assuming some will be dropped in the scaled up vet dungeons. This means each run is potentially 1000-1600 per run. I'll confirm running dome quick dungeons tonight maybe.

You are one of the players who is not aware that the V15/16 weapon drops only come from bosses and mini bosses. Which means players will get only 6-10 items per dungeon run for deconstruction.

That is part of why a lot of PVE players are p**s*d about.

All the mobs drop are V14 gear even if the dungeon is scaled to V16.

in WGT I have gotten a lot of V15 gear from trash mobs and pulls, those lost hatchets for example. What I'm not sure about are mobs in non Imperial City dungeons, which I will test out.

HeroOfNone

ran through the start of VCOA, only v14 gear dropped off the v16 mobs. checking with WGT and IS play through they did instead drop v15+ items from trash mobs

Tannus15

HeroOfNone wrote: »

ran through the start of VCOA, only v14 gear dropped off the v16 mobs. checking with WGT and IS play through they did instead drop v15+ items from trash mobs

This is very sad. So we have to farm WGT and ImpPris for items to decon for no good reason?

helediron

I don't mind hunting tv sets or other BIS sets for something special but grinding tv stones for basic crafting mats is pathetic. Ten times more for v16 is ten times more pathetic. And i have four vr14 and two more to come soon. That adds up to hundreds of hours grind. It's quite common when i get a new special gear drop, i craft another to adjust the whole set. Now that is double grind, one for the special item and second for regular crafted items. This is no improvement to crafting, just a cheap trick.

To grind special items: yes, to grind elementary stuff: no.

Ryuho

Takllin wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

In the next PTS build, we've bumped the chance to get an ingot up to 100% (from 50%) when deconstructing a piece of VR15/16 gear.

Happy crafting!

Thank you for increasing it, but a single ingot? When it costs 100+ to craft a single piece of gear?

No worries, soon u will buy them in Crown Store

I_killed_Vivec

Sharee wrote: »

Im not saying it will be fast, im saying it will be worth it because theres nothing else to spend the materials on once you already have v15 equipment done.

I'm more worried that there will be nothing else to do.

This, and the glass fragment debacle, is clearly the introduction of a long term grind to keep us busy.

I'm surprised that they changed the drop rate from deconstruction - obviously they weren't swayed by popular opinion on the length of the grind required to craft a single piece of VR16 gear, or they'd address the amount required...

In fact it makes more sense to address the amount required - increasing the drop rate makes VR15 easier to attain too, so the multiplier between VR15 and VR16 stays the same.