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Everything you feared about stones is true... from their live broadcast...
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helediron✭✭✭✭✭
✭
This is part of the problem. Some of these good sets should have been trials rewards. Somehow they ended to pvp side, and my guess is they were placed there without much thought. E.g. Ravager works best in pve. So this time i want to be sure pve players have access to these new gear without needing to buy them. There should be equally good way to farm tv stones on pvp and pve side.timidobserver wrote: »I am pretty confused by all of the outrage.
The way I understand it, all of the gear that can be purchased with Telvar Stones can be traded, so you don't need to go even go in there or even buy the DLC to get the gear. Currently players are paying stupid amounts for Cyrodiil's Light, Ravager, and Morag Tong. So buying the new gear earned in PvP won't be a new concept. As far as I can discern from the information we have been given, the only thing in IC that you can't buy from other players is some of the Dungeon Gear, and you don't have to PvP extensively to do the new dungeons.
On hiatus. PC,EU,AD - crafting completionist - @helediron 900+ cp, @helestor 1000+ cp, @helestar 800+ cp, @helester 700+ cp - Dragonborn Z Suomikilta, Harrods, Master Crafter. - Blog - Crafthouse: all stations, all munduses, all dummies, open to everyone1 -
Roselle✭✭✭✭Everyone should be able to 1vX and Xv1...
AKA some impressive stone exchanging is going to be happening "soon."This one was rekt by Zenimax1 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭.
This is part of the problem. Some of these good sets should have been trials rewards. Somehow they ended to pvp side, and my guess is they were placed there without much thought. E.g. Ravager works best in pve. So this time i want to be sure pve players have access to these new gear without needing to buy them. There should be equally good way to farm tv stones on pvp and pve side.timidobserver wrote: »I am pretty confused by all of the outrage.
The way I understand it, all of the gear that can be purchased with Telvar Stones can be traded, so you don't need to go even go in there or even buy the DLC to get the gear. Currently players are paying stupid amounts for Cyrodiil's Light, Ravager, and Morag Tong. So buying the new gear earned in PvP won't be a new concept. As far as I can discern from the information we have been given, the only thing in IC that you can't buy from other players is some of the Dungeon Gear, and you don't have to PvP extensively to do the new dungeons.
So what you're saying is...Undaunted sets should be purchasable with Alliance Points since many of them are considered ideal for PvP?"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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helediron✭✭✭✭✭
✭.
This is part of the problem. Some of these good sets should have been trials rewards. Somehow they ended to pvp side, and my guess is they were placed there without much thought. E.g. Ravager works best in pve. So this time i want to be sure pve players have access to these new gear without needing to buy them. There should be equally good way to farm tv stones on pvp and pve side.timidobserver wrote: »I am pretty confused by all of the outrage.
The way I understand it, all of the gear that can be purchased with Telvar Stones can be traded, so you don't need to go even go in there or even buy the DLC to get the gear. Currently players are paying stupid amounts for Cyrodiil's Light, Ravager, and Morag Tong. So buying the new gear earned in PvP won't be a new concept. As far as I can discern from the information we have been given, the only thing in IC that you can't buy from other players is some of the Dungeon Gear, and you don't have to PvP extensively to do the new dungeons.
So what you're saying is...Undaunted sets should be purchasable with Alliance Points since many of them are considered ideal for PvP?
That would be fine. These sets, ravagers and undaunted are just slapped somewhere. And it seems they naturally found the wrong place.
edit: Thinking a bit further, how about possibility to convert between ap and tv? And moving sets like undaunted to tv shop (no pun intended) and reward pledges with tv stones?Edited by helediron on July 19, 2015 11:23PMOn hiatus. PC,EU,AD - crafting completionist - @helediron 900+ cp, @helestor 1000+ cp, @helestar 800+ cp, @helester 700+ cp - Dragonborn Z Suomikilta, Harrods, Master Crafter. - Blog - Crafthouse: all stations, all munduses, all dummies, open to everyone1 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭.
This is part of the problem. Some of these good sets should have been trials rewards. Somehow they ended to pvp side, and my guess is they were placed there without much thought. E.g. Ravager works best in pve. So this time i want to be sure pve players have access to these new gear without needing to buy them. There should be equally good way to farm tv stones on pvp and pve side.timidobserver wrote: »I am pretty confused by all of the outrage.
The way I understand it, all of the gear that can be purchased with Telvar Stones can be traded, so you don't need to go even go in there or even buy the DLC to get the gear. Currently players are paying stupid amounts for Cyrodiil's Light, Ravager, and Morag Tong. So buying the new gear earned in PvP won't be a new concept. As far as I can discern from the information we have been given, the only thing in IC that you can't buy from other players is some of the Dungeon Gear, and you don't have to PvP extensively to do the new dungeons.
So what you're saying is...Undaunted sets should be purchasable with Alliance Points since many of them are considered ideal for PvP?
That would be fine. These sets, ravagers and undaunted are just slapped somewhere. And it seems they naturally found the wrong place.
While I can agree that all sets should be available through multiple means, the idea of them being in the "wrong" place is a little subjective.
It is entirely possible that ZOS is purposely doing things this way in order to keep aspects of the economy flowing back and forth between the two communities."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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helediron✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I confess, there was some sarcasm. Like the g-man said in half-life, the right man in wrong place can make all the difference in the world..
This is part of the problem. Some of these good sets should have been trials rewards. Somehow they ended to pvp side, and my guess is they were placed there without much thought. E.g. Ravager works best in pve. So this time i want to be sure pve players have access to these new gear without needing to buy them. There should be equally good way to farm tv stones on pvp and pve side.timidobserver wrote: »I am pretty confused by all of the outrage.
The way I understand it, all of the gear that can be purchased with Telvar Stones can be traded, so you don't need to go even go in there or even buy the DLC to get the gear. Currently players are paying stupid amounts for Cyrodiil's Light, Ravager, and Morag Tong. So buying the new gear earned in PvP won't be a new concept. As far as I can discern from the information we have been given, the only thing in IC that you can't buy from other players is some of the Dungeon Gear, and you don't have to PvP extensively to do the new dungeons.
So what you're saying is...Undaunted sets should be purchasable with Alliance Points since many of them are considered ideal for PvP?
That would be fine. These sets, ravagers and undaunted are just slapped somewhere. And it seems they naturally found the wrong place.
While I can agree that all sets should be available through multiple means, the idea of them being in the "wrong" place is a little subjective.
It is entirely possible that ZOS is purposely doing things this way in order to keep aspects of the economy flowing back and forth between the two communities.
On hiatus. PC,EU,AD - crafting completionist - @helediron 900+ cp, @helestor 1000+ cp, @helestar 800+ cp, @helester 700+ cp - Dragonborn Z Suomikilta, Harrods, Master Crafter. - Blog - Crafthouse: all stations, all munduses, all dummies, open to everyone0 -
Bars✭✭✭why not drop a few stone in the dungeons and let the pvp'er kill each other
and imo zo$ needs a kick in the stonesEdited by Bars on July 19, 2015 11:42PM0 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Attorneyatlawl wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »
You guys want this to sell right? As it is you arent going to sell very many of these and when the people who dont use the forums figure out what you have done there will be an uproar like you have never seen.ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »But as a PvP player I have severe doubts about this one single mechanic - that being hit by a single kill removes everything you may have done since entering the zone and rewards someone for scoring one single kill when they may have not one single thing I can loot when I turn the tables on them.
Like @ZOS_BrianWheeler mentioned yesterday on ESO Live - we'll be watching PTS closely, tracking the data and feedback. We'll test out a couple of different loss percentages and see what strikes the right balance.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/196972/do-you-plan-on-getting-the-imperial-city-dlc/p1
Yeah right, they're not going to sell much...
With 99% confidence & 8.5% margin of error, 49% of player population will buy this DLC.
But hey, keep pounding your chest & making noise lol
Did you pay attention to the numbers? Fact is 99% of the players never use these forums. These forums are basically all one demographic. Its why companies should get their feedback from more than just the small amount who use these forums.
That poll has less than 500 total votes.
It's called a "statistically significant sample size" that is able to get a "confidence" rating. This confidence determines the margin of error. You don't need to survey 80% of people from every place they exist to get a relevant and accurate cross-section of data. @DDuke is completely correct as to what this data means.
500 votes not all of them favorable to this new system is hardly scientific lol. Thats nothing. Thats like asking one person what they think and basing everything off that one person. Wait until this goes live and see how horrible everything will be.0 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »MsPtibiscuit wrote: »I can't believe are really complaining about a system like that. This is the first time ESO devs try to do something different than the typical themepark content, and people, without even trying the system, are already unhappy.
You guys really need to get out of this "progression" mentality. Stop thinking that you have to have 62 stones by the end of the evening, and if you can't achieve that, then it is the fault of the game or bad gamedesign.
Just play the game as it is, enjoy victories, learn from defeats. Even if you lose some stones along the way, the frustration will make the next victory sweeter.
People often forget that while full-loot PvP (The way stone works is similar to that) lets jerks play like jerks, it also lets white knights play like white knights. If you don't like the gankers, go form a group and patrol the area to protect the members of your faction.
That's what happened in BDO where a player pacified a region where spawn-killers were active. It's the kind of *** you can't do without spawn-killers in the first place.
Had to give you an awesome for that. You almost paint a positive picture of what Imperial "ganker" City could be and then I remembered human nature and more specifically...human pvp'er nature. Nope. Not gonna happen!
I think its cute people believe that everyone will play fair and people will defend the players who arent as good at pvp. Fact is like every game thats tried this it will end in disaster.
It's also flawed thinking that someone bad at PvP who gets their stones taken away will be able to just "form a group and patrol the area" for great justice. People who are bad at PvP are not going to make very good gank patrols are they? They also likely don't run with other people who are great at PvP. Their gear and skills are not set up to PvP. That advice might be valid for people who like and/or are good at PvP but then they don't need convincing to participate in the PvP system do they?
These pvp guilds will be dominating the area. Noone will be allowed to enter unless they pay tribute. Its how all these open pvp player loot games work. ZOS again takes the ship and crashes it into yet another iceberg.0 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »
You guys want this to sell right? As it is you arent going to sell very many of these and when the people who dont use the forums figure out what you have done there will be an uproar like you have never seen.ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »But as a PvP player I have severe doubts about this one single mechanic - that being hit by a single kill removes everything you may have done since entering the zone and rewards someone for scoring one single kill when they may have not one single thing I can loot when I turn the tables on them.
Like @ZOS_BrianWheeler mentioned yesterday on ESO Live - we'll be watching PTS closely, tracking the data and feedback. We'll test out a couple of different loss percentages and see what strikes the right balance.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/196972/do-you-plan-on-getting-the-imperial-city-dlc/p1
Yeah right, they're not going to sell much...
With 99% confidence & 8.5% margin of error, 49% of player population will buy this DLC.
But hey, keep pounding your chest & making noise lol
Did you pay attention to the numbers? Fact is 99% of the players never use these forums. These forums are basically all one demographic. Its why companies should get their feedback from more than just the small amount who use these forums.
That poll has less than 500 total votes.
Most people don't vote on electoral polls either, but the interesting thing is that you can determine public opinion even with a small sample size. This is called margin of error.
Please take a moment and educate yourself.
With only 257 votes we can already determine the real number is between 40% & 56%.
Lol so out of almost 3 million people you think 257 votes means between 40 and 56% are favorable to being killed by people with no life? What are you on man? I want some.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »
You guys want this to sell right? As it is you arent going to sell very many of these and when the people who dont use the forums figure out what you have done there will be an uproar like you have never seen.ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »But as a PvP player I have severe doubts about this one single mechanic - that being hit by a single kill removes everything you may have done since entering the zone and rewards someone for scoring one single kill when they may have not one single thing I can loot when I turn the tables on them.
Like @ZOS_BrianWheeler mentioned yesterday on ESO Live - we'll be watching PTS closely, tracking the data and feedback. We'll test out a couple of different loss percentages and see what strikes the right balance.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/196972/do-you-plan-on-getting-the-imperial-city-dlc/p1
Yeah right, they're not going to sell much...
With 99% confidence & 8.5% margin of error, 49% of player population will buy this DLC.
But hey, keep pounding your chest & making noise lol
Did you pay attention to the numbers? Fact is 99% of the players never use these forums. These forums are basically all one demographic. Its why companies should get their feedback from more than just the small amount who use these forums.
That poll has less than 500 total votes.
Most people don't vote on electoral polls either, but the interesting thing is that you can determine public opinion even with a small sample size. This is called margin of error.
Please take a moment and educate yourself.
With only 257 votes we can already determine the real number is between 40% & 56%.
Lol so out of almost 3 million people you think 257 votes means between 40 and 56% are favorable to being killed by people with no life? What are you on man? I want some.
It is science, and not my fault if you can't understand it.
Please read the link I provided, which should explain why you actually can determine the real public opinion with only few hundred votes. As more votes are gathered, the margin of error shrinks (at the moment it is 8%).
Quick google search even finds you a calculator for this, if you need one: http://www.polarismr.com/polaris-help-center/stat-calc-margin-of-errorThis doesn't explain how a self-selected forum sample is representative of the ESO population. Margin of error doesn't account for this bias.
It is an unbiased poll with all options, and we are all players of ESO on the official ESO forums.
Most ESO players have access to the forums, no one is specifically restricted from voting.
You don't need to be a "special representative" of the country/state you live in to vote on electoral polls either.
Where is the bias?
Feel free to start your own unbiased poll, I can say with 99% certainty that it'll show the same result +-8%.Edited by DDuke on July 20, 2015 12:54AM4 -
Iyas✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.
thanks!
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ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.
Hear that people? Cyrodiil skyrim belongs to the nords pvplayers!
and you sir just got a new fan
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killingspreeb16_ESO✭✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »MsPtibiscuit wrote: »
So, basically, because we shouldn't force PvP content to PvE players, we should lose 0 stones when we die so that PvP players are forced to do PvE content to get stones.jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »But as a PvP player I have severe doubts about this one single mechanic - that being hit by a single kill removes everything you may have done since entering the zone and rewards someone for scoring one single kill when they may have not one single thing I can loot when I turn the tables on them.
Like @ZOS_BrianWheeler mentioned yesterday on ESO Live - we'll be watching PTS closely, tracking the data and feedback. We'll test out a couple of different loss percentages and see what strikes the right balance.
The right balance is losing ZERO of your stones to players. If the PVP people want stones let them do like everyone else and EARN them instead of stealing them. You guys want this to sell right? As it is you arent going to sell very many of these and when the people who dont use the forums figure out what you have done there will be an uproar like you have never seen.
Just bewilders me why you guys dont learn from the history of other games that player looting is a huge no-no. I guess you will be forced to learn the hard way. When you lose even more of the players one of these days you guys will start listening to us.
Yes exactly. You want stones then go get them. Nothing is stopping you.
So is fine force PvP player to do dungeon to get the gear
SO is fine to force PvP player to grind cp(killing those random mob must be fun)and be better in PvP without improving your skill
and ofc is fine to force PvP playerto do PvE in the PvP DLC
BUT is not fine "force" PvE player to do PvP....
This is the PvP dlc so if you want your gear go pvp like everyone else or wait and buy it on the trade guild.
(sorry for the bad english)
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newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It is science, and not my fault if you can't understand it.
Please read the link I provided, which should explain why you actually can determine the real public opinion with only few hundred votes. As more votes are gathered, the margin of error shrinks
Where is the bias?
Feel free to start your own unbiased poll, I can say with 99% certainty that it'll show the same result +-8%.
I did snip some stuff from here.
I had to take enough statistics classes to get my degree that I can see what the problem is. Any sampling that takes place on the forums, is inherently non-random as it is a subset of a self-selected group (those players of ESO past and present who post on the forums).
IF you somehow had a master list of all players of ESO and used appropriate techniques to generate a random sample (which is not easy) and then contacted them, and enough of them who are currently playing answered to achieve a decent margin of error and you had phrased the questions appropriately to avoid bias......THEN
You might have something approaching a result. Not "an answer" because you never prove anything with appropriately used statistics. You either support or fail to support your hypothesis.
As of yet, I have not seen any research on your part that implies you have a truly random sample set, or that you formulated your questions to avoid bias.
It would be quite interesting if someone did this.Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis4 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »
You guys want this to sell right? As it is you arent going to sell very many of these and when the people who dont use the forums figure out what you have done there will be an uproar like you have never seen.ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »But as a PvP player I have severe doubts about this one single mechanic - that being hit by a single kill removes everything you may have done since entering the zone and rewards someone for scoring one single kill when they may have not one single thing I can loot when I turn the tables on them.
Like @ZOS_BrianWheeler mentioned yesterday on ESO Live - we'll be watching PTS closely, tracking the data and feedback. We'll test out a couple of different loss percentages and see what strikes the right balance.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/196972/do-you-plan-on-getting-the-imperial-city-dlc/p1
Yeah right, they're not going to sell much...
With 99% confidence & 8.5% margin of error, 49% of player population will buy this DLC.
But hey, keep pounding your chest & making noise lol
Did you pay attention to the numbers? Fact is 99% of the players never use these forums. These forums are basically all one demographic. Its why companies should get their feedback from more than just the small amount who use these forums.
That poll has less than 500 total votes.
Most people don't vote on electoral polls either, but the interesting thing is that you can determine public opinion even with a small sample size. This is called margin of error.
Please take a moment and educate yourself.
With only 257 votes we can already determine the real number is between 40% & 56%.
Lol so out of almost 3 million people you think 257 votes means between 40 and 56% are favorable to being killed by people with no life? What are you on man? I want some.
It is science, and not my fault if you can't understand it.
Please read the link I provided, which should explain why you actually can determine the real public opinion with only few hundred votes. As more votes are gathered, the margin of error shrinks (at the moment it is 8%).
Quick google search even finds you a calculator for this, if you need one: http://www.polarismr.com/polaris-help-center/stat-calc-margin-of-errorThis doesn't explain how a self-selected forum sample is representative of the ESO population. Margin of error doesn't account for this bias.
It is an unbiased poll with all options, and we are all players of ESO on the official ESO forums.
Most ESO players have access to the forums, no one is specifically restricted from voting.
You don't need to be a "special representative" of the country/state you live in to vote on electoral polls either.
Where is the bias?
Feel free to start your own unbiased poll, I can say with 99% certainty that it'll show the same result +-8%.
It is not science lol. Science is when you do a sampling thats controlled. Not a rigged poll on a forum hardly anyone uses. A while back you insisted when the polls didnt go your way that the forums didnt represent anyone. Now that the poll goes your way it is 100% scientific fact. Even if it is shoudnt ZOS look at something when over 50% of there playerbase (according to you) hates this new expansion with its gank squads and player looting?1 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »MsPtibiscuit wrote: »
So, basically, because we shouldn't force PvP content to PvE players, we should lose 0 stones when we die so that PvP players are forced to do PvE content to get stones.jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »But as a PvP player I have severe doubts about this one single mechanic - that being hit by a single kill removes everything you may have done since entering the zone and rewards someone for scoring one single kill when they may have not one single thing I can loot when I turn the tables on them.
Like @ZOS_BrianWheeler mentioned yesterday on ESO Live - we'll be watching PTS closely, tracking the data and feedback. We'll test out a couple of different loss percentages and see what strikes the right balance.
The right balance is losing ZERO of your stones to players. If the PVP people want stones let them do like everyone else and EARN them instead of stealing them. You guys want this to sell right? As it is you arent going to sell very many of these and when the people who dont use the forums figure out what you have done there will be an uproar like you have never seen.
Just bewilders me why you guys dont learn from the history of other games that player looting is a huge no-no. I guess you will be forced to learn the hard way. When you lose even more of the players one of these days you guys will start listening to us.
Yes exactly. You want stones then go get them. Nothing is stopping you.
So is fine force PvP player to do dungeon to get the gear
SO is fine to force PvP player to grind cp(killing those random mob must be fun)and be better in PvP without improving your skill
and ofc is fine to force PvP playerto do PvE in the PvP DLC
BUT is not fine "force" PvE player to do PvP....
This is the PvP dlc so if you want your gear go pvp like everyone else or wait and buy it on the trade guild.
(sorry for the bad english)
The point of the area is that you can kill other players while you earn your stones. The point should not be you sit and do nothing until someone who farmed the stones comes out of a place then you just take his stuff. Thats not pvp thats just being lazy. If you want the gear work for it. The AP you get from kills and the rank etc is plenty reward for you. There is no risk to you so why should you have any reward?0 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭.jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »MsPtibiscuit wrote: »
So, basically, because we shouldn't force PvP content to PvE players, we should lose 0 stones when we die so that PvP players are forced to do PvE content to get stones.jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »But as a PvP player I have severe doubts about this one single mechanic - that being hit by a single kill removes everything you may have done since entering the zone and rewards someone for scoring one single kill when they may have not one single thing I can loot when I turn the tables on them.
Like @ZOS_BrianWheeler mentioned yesterday on ESO Live - we'll be watching PTS closely, tracking the data and feedback. We'll test out a couple of different loss percentages and see what strikes the right balance.
The right balance is losing ZERO of your stones to players. If the PVP people want stones let them do like everyone else and EARN them instead of stealing them. You guys want this to sell right? As it is you arent going to sell very many of these and when the people who dont use the forums figure out what you have done there will be an uproar like you have never seen.
Just bewilders me why you guys dont learn from the history of other games that player looting is a huge no-no. I guess you will be forced to learn the hard way. When you lose even more of the players one of these days you guys will start listening to us.
Yes exactly. You want stones then go get them. Nothing is stopping you.
So is fine force PvP player to do dungeon to get the gear
SO is fine to force PvP player to grind cp(killing those random mob must be fun)and be better in PvP without improving your skill
and ofc is fine to force PvP playerto do PvE in the PvP DLC
BUT is not fine "force" PvE player to do PvP....
This is the PvP dlc so if you want your gear go pvp like everyone else or wait and buy it on the trade guild.
(sorry for the bad english)
The point of the area is that you can kill other players while you earn your stones. The point should not be you sit and do nothing until someone who farmed the stones comes out of a place then you just take his stuff. Thats not pvp thats just being lazy. If you want the gear work for it. The AP you get from kills and the rank etc is plenty reward for you. There is no risk to you so why should you have any reward?
So killing mobs is enacting hard work to earn something, and killing players to achieve the same end is laziness.
Can agree with your statement about lack of risk warranting lack of reward.
Considering the player who was "lazy" in your description still has the risk of someone else killing them and taking 100% of the stones they got, they still have the risk.
It is a good thing there is 100% drop rate on stones, or else there would be less warrant for reward."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
5 -
killingspreeb16_ESO✭✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »MsPtibiscuit wrote: »
So, basically, because we shouldn't force PvP content to PvE players, we should lose 0 stones when we die so that PvP players are forced to do PvE content to get stones.jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »But as a PvP player I have severe doubts about this one single mechanic - that being hit by a single kill removes everything you may have done since entering the zone and rewards someone for scoring one single kill when they may have not one single thing I can loot when I turn the tables on them.
Like @ZOS_BrianWheeler mentioned yesterday on ESO Live - we'll be watching PTS closely, tracking the data and feedback. We'll test out a couple of different loss percentages and see what strikes the right balance.
The right balance is losing ZERO of your stones to players. If the PVP people want stones let them do like everyone else and EARN them instead of stealing them. You guys want this to sell right? As it is you arent going to sell very many of these and when the people who dont use the forums figure out what you have done there will be an uproar like you have never seen.
Just bewilders me why you guys dont learn from the history of other games that player looting is a huge no-no. I guess you will be forced to learn the hard way. When you lose even more of the players one of these days you guys will start listening to us.
Yes exactly. You want stones then go get them. Nothing is stopping you.
So is fine force PvP player to do dungeon to get the gear
SO is fine to force PvP player to grind cp(killing those random mob must be fun)and be better in PvP without improving your skill
and ofc is fine to force PvP playerto do PvE in the PvP DLC
BUT is not fine "force" PvE player to do PvP....
This is the PvP dlc so if you want your gear go pvp like everyone else or wait and buy it on the trade guild.
(sorry for the bad english)
The point of the area is that you can kill other players while you earn your stones. The point should not be you sit and do nothing until someone who farmed the stones comes out of a place then you just take his stuff. Thats not pvp thats just being lazy. If you want the gear work for it. The AP you get from kills and the rank etc is plenty reward for you. There is no risk to you so why should you have any reward?
There is a risk is not like you will always win every fight,im sure (even if im fine with 100% loot) they will decrease the loot to something like 50%,and i don't want to kill mob to get those stone,i get youre a pve player don't want to lose everything after die to someone,but is the same for me if i want to have many cp is to grind them while for me is most boring things to do,and keep in mind you can always complete those (6?) daily quest and no one can stole those bag and you can go to the pve dungeon without go in cyrodiil,and atleast wait for the PTS and then start talk how to balance the system without try to destroy it only because you don't like it.
Again sorry for the bad english
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Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »MsPtibiscuit wrote: »
So, basically, because we shouldn't force PvP content to PvE players, we should lose 0 stones when we die so that PvP players are forced to do PvE content to get stones.jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »But as a PvP player I have severe doubts about this one single mechanic - that being hit by a single kill removes everything you may have done since entering the zone and rewards someone for scoring one single kill when they may have not one single thing I can loot when I turn the tables on them.
Like @ZOS_BrianWheeler mentioned yesterday on ESO Live - we'll be watching PTS closely, tracking the data and feedback. We'll test out a couple of different loss percentages and see what strikes the right balance.
The right balance is losing ZERO of your stones to players. If the PVP people want stones let them do like everyone else and EARN them instead of stealing them. You guys want this to sell right? As it is you arent going to sell very many of these and when the people who dont use the forums figure out what you have done there will be an uproar like you have never seen.
Just bewilders me why you guys dont learn from the history of other games that player looting is a huge no-no. I guess you will be forced to learn the hard way. When you lose even more of the players one of these days you guys will start listening to us.
Yes exactly. You want stones then go get them. Nothing is stopping you.
So is fine force PvP player to do dungeon to get the gear
SO is fine to force PvP player to grind cp(killing those random mob must be fun)and be better in PvP without improving your skill
and ofc is fine to force PvP playerto do PvE in the PvP DLC
BUT is not fine "force" PvE player to do PvP....
This is the PvP dlc so if you want your gear go pvp like everyone else or wait and buy it on the trade guild.
(sorry for the bad english)
The point of the area is that you can kill other players while you earn your stones. The point should not be you sit and do nothing until someone who farmed the stones comes out of a place then you just take his stuff. Thats not pvp thats just being lazy. If you want the gear work for it. The AP you get from kills and the rank etc is plenty reward for you. There is no risk to you so why should you have any reward?
There is a risk is not like you will always win every fight,im sure (even if im fine with 100% loot) they will decrease the loot to something like 50%,...
If the drop rate is decreased to 50%, players will gank grinders over and over again until they stop dropping stones.
If a person drops all of their stones in one kill, there is no incentive to attack them again after they respawn."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
1 -
killingspreeb16_ESO✭✭✭✭killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »MsPtibiscuit wrote: »
So, basically, because we shouldn't force PvP content to PvE players, we should lose 0 stones when we die so that PvP players are forced to do PvE content to get stones.jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »But as a PvP player I have severe doubts about this one single mechanic - that being hit by a single kill removes everything you may have done since entering the zone and rewards someone for scoring one single kill when they may have not one single thing I can loot when I turn the tables on them.
Like @ZOS_BrianWheeler mentioned yesterday on ESO Live - we'll be watching PTS closely, tracking the data and feedback. We'll test out a couple of different loss percentages and see what strikes the right balance.
The right balance is losing ZERO of your stones to players. If the PVP people want stones let them do like everyone else and EARN them instead of stealing them. You guys want this to sell right? As it is you arent going to sell very many of these and when the people who dont use the forums figure out what you have done there will be an uproar like you have never seen.
Just bewilders me why you guys dont learn from the history of other games that player looting is a huge no-no. I guess you will be forced to learn the hard way. When you lose even more of the players one of these days you guys will start listening to us.
Yes exactly. You want stones then go get them. Nothing is stopping you.
So is fine force PvP player to do dungeon to get the gear
SO is fine to force PvP player to grind cp(killing those random mob must be fun)and be better in PvP without improving your skill
and ofc is fine to force PvP playerto do PvE in the PvP DLC
BUT is not fine "force" PvE player to do PvP....
This is the PvP dlc so if you want your gear go pvp like everyone else or wait and buy it on the trade guild.
(sorry for the bad english)
The point of the area is that you can kill other players while you earn your stones. The point should not be you sit and do nothing until someone who farmed the stones comes out of a place then you just take his stuff. Thats not pvp thats just being lazy. If you want the gear work for it. The AP you get from kills and the rank etc is plenty reward for you. There is no risk to you so why should you have any reward?
There is a risk is not like you will always win every fight,im sure (even if im fine with 100% loot) they will decrease the loot to something like 50%,...
If the drop rate is decreased to 50%, players will gank grinders over and over again until they stop dropping stones.
If a person drops all of their stones in one kill, there is no incentive to attack them again after they respawn.
for me it can stay 100% i think is the best solution and the most fun imo,but as you can see people are alredy trying to destroy the system without even try the PTS1 -
Farorin✭✭✭✭✭MaximusDargus wrote: »MaximusDargus wrote: »Let's give it a chance before everyone wants to say how horrible it is. It adds risk/reward for PvP, while at the same time added in ways to for people that just want to pve to keep them in a chest, you just won't get the multiplayer. But like everything the decided to do, this forum says how horrible it is. I mean the crappy champion points were added because people kept crying about the VR levels.
It adds RISK to PVE content of IC and REAWRD to PVP content of IC.
There is nothing fair in this.
If stones would come PURELY from player kills then i would agree its PVP risk and reward.
If the subject of die'n'lose would be AP that are acquired only in PVP content then it would be PVP risk and reward.
Current system is not fair. Its RISK in PVE and REWARD for the PVP.
What are you doing in the PvP world if all you want to do is PvE. That's like a PvPer getting upset he can't kill people in PvE. If you are too scared to be killed by a player, stay out of PvP. The next DLC will be for PvE, this one is PvP. And you if you want to do dungeons is PvP work, guess what.....you should be able to get killed
Its not a PVP world its mixed PVP/PVE and it should be obvious to anyone who is not self centered that there should be a balance and fair terms between PVP and PVE players in that zone.
The whole point is that ZOS is all the time greatly favourising PVPers and is catering to them at every step. Just like with your delusional Risk and Reward.
The risk in on PVE side, the reward is on PVP side.
Its nothing near balanced.
LOL.
Really? So you regard what is literally the first piece of content released EVER for PVPers, and the first bit of proper attention EVER for PVPers as ZOS favouring PVPers?
The facts are, every piece of content since the game went live has been for PVE, finally, we get some content that is for PVP, with a bit of PVE thrown in so that the PVEers have something. ZOS didn't HAVE to include PVE into this DLC, but they did for those that are intereted, so rather than being grateful that they, yet again, thought of PVE players like they have been doing since the games release, your crying about how it's unfair that this DLC is a PVP one? Get your facts straight.
It's high time for some PVP DLC, so don't cry about it just because you don't like PVP, just be happy that ZOS hasn't been neglecting PVE since release like it has been doing to PVP.3 -
MaximusDargus wrote: »MaximusDargus wrote: »Let's give it a chance before everyone wants to say how horrible it is. It adds risk/reward for PvP, while at the same time added in ways to for people that just want to pve to keep them in a chest, you just won't get the multiplayer. But like everything the decided to do, this forum says how horrible it is. I mean the crappy champion points were added because people kept crying about the VR levels.
It adds RISK to PVE content of IC and REAWRD to PVP content of IC.
There is nothing fair in this.
If stones would come PURELY from player kills then i would agree its PVP risk and reward.
If the subject of die'n'lose would be AP that are acquired only in PVP content then it would be PVP risk and reward.
Current system is not fair. Its RISK in PVE and REWARD for the PVP.
What are you doing in the PvP world if all you want to do is PvE. That's like a PvPer getting upset he can't kill people in PvE. If you are too scared to be killed by a player, stay out of PvP. The next DLC will be for PvE, this one is PvP. And you if you want to do dungeons is PvP work, guess what.....you should be able to get killed
Its not a PVP world its mixed PVP/PVE and it should be obvious to anyone who is not self centered that there should be a balance and fair terms between PVP and PVE players in that zone.
The whole point is that ZOS is all the time greatly favourising PVPers and is catering to them at every step. Just like with your delusional Risk and Reward.
The risk in on PVE side, the reward is on PVP side.
Its nothing near balanced.
LOL.
Really? So you regard what is literally the first piece of content released EVER for PVPers, and the first bit of proper attention EVER for PVPers as ZOS favouring PVPers?
The facts are, every piece of content since the game went live has been for PVE, finally, we get some content that is for PVP, with a bit of PVE thrown in so that the PVEers have something. ZOS didn't HAVE to include PVE into this DLC, but they did for those that are intereted, so rather than being grateful that they, yet again, thought of PVE players like they have been doing since the games release, your crying about how it's unfair that this DLC is a PVP one? Get your facts straight.
It's high time for some PVP DLC, so don't cry about it just because you don't like PVP, just be happy that ZOS hasn't been neglecting PVE since release like it has been doing to PVP.
QFT0 -
Ysne58✭✭✭✭✭I agree it's high time for PvP content. I also believe that making those stones lootable from PvE players is a really bad idea. So far I see no reason for me to buy this content. Whether I'm in the minority or not, only time will answer that.2 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.
I must confess you at ZOS are going a way very which is very hard to understand for an end user.
I play online games since when they were text based and "network" meant "analog modem"...
... in all this time I have never seen a multiplayer game where:
1) (Before IC) Levelling up content just stops at about 3 levels below levels cap and then the player is left with no level up content.
2) PvE raid instances dropping deconstruct-worth gear whereas best in slot stuff drops in PvP.
3) PvP rebalances continuosly adversely affecting PvE gameplay. Just because SWTOR does it does not mean it's a good idea to duplicate.
4) Adding an "Imperial City is meant for the PvP player" however that's where the best PvE gear is going to be achieved (again).
5) It's a PvP espansion but level cap is going to be raised (typically a PvE oriented operation).
It's confusing to say the least, irritating could be a better term.
Also, to all those claiming "just wait for Orsinium", it's like exclusively putting high heels shoes in a shop and saying men with broken shoes: "wear these shoes or, if you want shoes for men, just come back in a year".Edited by Vahrokh on July 20, 2015 2:49AMVaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO8 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭...
Also, to all those claiming "just wait for Orsinium", it's like exclusively putting high heels shoes in a shop and saying men with broken shoes: "wear these shoes or, if you want shoes for men, just come back in a year".
Men can wear high heels, they may just find them painful.
Women are often expected to wear high heels, they have to learn to acclimatize and ignore the pain of them.
If the Men in your example are the PvE players waiting for new "male" shoes,
then are the Women left out of your example the PvP players that have had to just quietly suffer along with decreased and sub-par options?"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Also, to all those claiming "just wait for Orsinium", it's like exclusively putting high heels shoes in a shop and saying men with broken shoes: "wear these shoes or, if you want shoes for men, just come back in a year".
I'm a woman and I don't like high heeled shoes.
But to your point I think possibly ZoS meant to seduce the various PvP'ers and PvE'ers to the "other side" but the seduction part isn't working out so well.Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis5 -
ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.
I must confess you at ZOS are going a way very which is very hard to understand for an end user.
I play online games since when they were text based and "network" meant "analog modem"...
... in all this time I have never seen a multiplayer game where:
1) (Before IC) Levelling up content just stops at about 3 levels below levels cap and then the player is left with no level up content.
2) PvE raid instances dropping deconstruct-worth gear whereas best in slot stuff drops in PvP.
3) PvP rebalances continuosly adversely affecting PvE gameplay. Just because SWTOR does it does not mean it's a good idea to duplicate.
4) Adding an "Imperial City is meant for the PvP player" however that's where the best PvE gear is going to be achieved (again).
5) It's a PvP espansion but level cap is going to be raised (typically a PvE oriented operation).
It's confusing to say the least, irritating could be a better term.
Also, to all those claiming "just wait for Orsinium", it's like exclusively putting high heels shoes in a shop and saying men with broken shoes: "wear these shoes or, if you want shoes for men, just come back in a year".
Most MMOs i played (actually all of them) in more than 10 years had no dedicated leveling content like eso at all, a few quests for a gear or two here and there in the entire game AND 463246324639824638946 mobs all around waiting for the players to kill and grind to their hearts content, rinse and repeat alone, in groups, in guilds until max level and until you finally get that best gear after 4384938473 tries, in comparison to this ESO is a welcome breath of fresh air in the MMO scene, yeah, the last 3 vet ranks have currently no content dedicated to leveling them, but it's easy as hell to get these ranks and will be even more now in update 7 with the xp increases and reduction of xp required in each vet level.
Just a few days ago, me, a casual pve/pvp player who was vet 11 leveled in 2 days of CASUAL play to vet 14 doing a few quests in crag with a group, undaunted pledges, some quests to get the achievements of Cyrodiil and a bit of pug and guild PVP.
Let the PVPlayers have their content, it's the only content we will get since the release of eso MORE THAN A YEAR AGO, while PVE got all the love until now, and this is the only future PVP content announced (besides PVP part of the justice system that probably was scraped because of all the cries in the forums) until now while ZOS already said to be working on the following PVE ZONES: Orsinium, Murkmire, Clockwork City, Abah's landing and Mephala's realm.
Edited by WolffenBloodseeker on July 20, 2015 3:31AM3 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »[ (besides PVP part of the justice system that probably was scraped because of all the cries in the forums)
I truly hope not. I was really rooting for being able to have duels in PvE cities with some sort of "throw/accept a gauntlet" mechanism.
And of course emotes for ladies bestowing their favors (I mean kerchiefs and the like - not anything inappropriate).Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis0 -
nathan_bri✭✭✭✭The dungeon difficulty will be scaled to vr16 the loot WILL NOT BE. VR15 and 16 loot is only obtainable through pvp.
"Get powerful new Veteran Rank 16 weapons and armor by completing the White-Gold Tower and Imperial City Prison dungeons (and the Undaunted Pledges for them), and Veteran Rank 16 armor sets by trading in your Tel Var Stones."0