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Everything you feared about stones is true... from their live broadcast...
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Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Septimus_Magna wrote: »I think most people forget that they have a lot of control about the amount of risk they take.
...
They don't seem to care. Any risk seems too much for them.
The devs went into great detail how to mitigate the risk of losing your stones in the same presentation that sparked all this outrage. Repeating that you can acquire safe stone boxes from dailies, or that you can frequently travel back to bank your stones, or that you can travel in groups and stay close to your safe zones - all of that fell on deaf ears. It seems to be the very idea of losing something that causes some people to go on a rampage. Which is also why adjusting the loss percentage will not do anything to appease them.
And removing the so called "stealing" alltogether would gut the Imperial City completely. The whole point of the Tel Var Stone system - banking them, multipliers, safe boxes, loss on death - is risk management. Without risk, it's just another generic currency grind, absolutely pointless.
Which is what makes me really sad, to be honest. Every time a developer tries to add something more hardcore or just different, people kick and scream until everything is brought back into line of the tried and tested play pen of mediocrity.
And then people wonder why the genre is stagnating.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.4 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Which is what makes me really sad, to be honest. Every time a developer tries to add something more hardcore or just different, people kick and scream until everything is brought back into line of the tried and tested play pen of mediocrity.
And then people wonder why the genre is stagnating.
Amen... Couldn't agree more.Edited by DDuke on July 20, 2015 11:36AM2 -
Which is what makes me really sad, to be honest. Every time a developer tries to add something more hardcore or just different, people kick and scream until everything is brought back into line of the tried and tested play pen of mediocrity.
And then people wonder why the genre is stagnating.
Amen... Couldn't agree more.
Amen²...
When the devs do the same safe thing everyone complains that there are no reasons to play their game because it doesn't bring anything new and is equal to all other games, WHEN the devs try to break from it and do something different or hardcore or simple with the intention to create a risk vs reward environment in something you are doing then people scream that it is unfair, it is bad, it will fail, that the devs are forcing something different in them that they don't want to do, they complain saying why the devs are wasting time and money creating this thing when they can add more of the same content that i like and already takes 90% of the ENTIRE GAME.
If i don't like something i will simple NOT BUY IT, i'll not complain, i'll not even care! i'll focus on the things i like and be done with it...
2 -
Tavore1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »Which is what makes me really sad, to be honest. Every time a developer tries to add something more hardcore or just different, people kick and scream until everything is brought back into line of the tried and tested play pen of mediocrity.
And then people wonder why the genre is stagnating.
Amen... Couldn't agree more.
Amen²...
When the devs do the same safe thing everyone complains that there are no reasons to play their game because it doesn't bring anything new and is equal to all other games, WHEN the devs try to break from it and do something different or hardcore or simple with the intention to create a risk vs reward environment in something you are doing then people scream that it is unfair, it is bad, it will fail, that the devs are forcing something different in them that they don't want to do, they complain saying why the devs are wasting time and money creating this thing when they can add more of the same content that i like and already takes 90% of the ENTIRE GAME.
If i don't like something i will simple NOT BUY IT, i'll not complain, i'll not even care! i'll focus on the things i like and be done with it...
Curious the that many of the voices liking this are: 'we liked this in other games but ESO is different please make it like those other games that we no longer play'.
Seems like you don't want something different you would like those of us who play this because it is different to conform to the same system as those games you are nostalgic for.
Its your right to feel that way just don't try and dress it up as some brave pioneering effort that we are trying to prevent.GM - Malazan
Raid Leader - Hungry Wolves
Legio Mortuum4 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »Which is what makes me really sad, to be honest. Every time a developer tries to add something more hardcore or just different, people kick and scream until everything is brought back into line of the tried and tested play pen of mediocrity.
And then people wonder why the genre is stagnating.
Amen... Couldn't agree more.
Amen²...
When the devs do the same safe thing everyone complains that there are no reasons to play their game because it doesn't bring anything new and is equal to all other games, WHEN the devs try to break from it and do something different or hardcore or simple with the intention to create a risk vs reward environment in something you are doing then people scream that it is unfair, it is bad, it will fail, that the devs are forcing something different in them that they don't want to do, they complain saying why the devs are wasting time and money creating this thing when they can add more of the same content that i like and already takes 90% of the ENTIRE GAME.
If i don't like something i will simple NOT BUY IT, i'll not complain, i'll not even care! i'll focus on the things i like and be done with it...
This is nothing new, really. I was doing the same kind of "PvE with PvP" in Warhammer 5 years ago with much gusto.
The difference, here, is that in Warhammer everybody had a PvP build and PvP gear when doing PvE because... like many well made PvP games... its developers understood how impopular is to make inexperienced PvEers in awful (for PvP) PvE builds and terrible skill sets (awesome for PvE though) go and get farmed by PvPers.
One can accept to be killed because he's inexperienced. But he's not going to accept dying because he's greatly disadvantaged due to his build and gear. Builds aren't free and just the annoying having to click all day long to switch PvP -> PvE -> PvP.... is going to put off many people. This could easily be mitigated by allowing everyone to have 1 PvE and 1 PvP builds enabled and saved at once, auto-engaging depending on whether they are in Cyrodil or not. But this hasn't been done.
Another factor is, in those PvP games, everyone who subbed knew it was a true, all encompassing PvP game. Those who didn't like that, those who are "pure PvE players", simply did not sub to those PvP games ever so they wouldn't feel "robbed" or "cheated". Something that is happening with IC in ESO.
Edited by Vahrokh on July 20, 2015 1:09PMVaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO2 -
MsPtibiscuit✭✭The devs went into great detail how to mitigate the risk of losing your stones in the same presentation that sparked all this outrage. Repeating that you can acquire safe stone boxes from dailies, or that you can frequently travel back to bank your stones, or that you can travel in groups and stay close to your safe zones - all of that fell on deaf ears. It seems to be the very idea of losing something that causes some people to go on a rampage. Which is also why adjusting the loss percentage will not do anything to appease them.
Interacting with other players in a MMO ? In 2015 ?
Are you totally insane ?
This would be way too much revolutionary.Edited by MsPtibiscuit on July 20, 2015 1:21PM1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SuraklinPrime wrote: »WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »Which is what makes me really sad, to be honest. Every time a developer tries to add something more hardcore or just different, people kick and scream until everything is brought back into line of the tried and tested play pen of mediocrity.
And then people wonder why the genre is stagnating.
Amen... Couldn't agree more.
Amen²...
When the devs do the same safe thing everyone complains that there are no reasons to play their game because it doesn't bring anything new and is equal to all other games, WHEN the devs try to break from it and do something different or hardcore or simple with the intention to create a risk vs reward environment in something you are doing then people scream that it is unfair, it is bad, it will fail, that the devs are forcing something different in them that they don't want to do, they complain saying why the devs are wasting time and money creating this thing when they can add more of the same content that i like and already takes 90% of the ENTIRE GAME.
If i don't like something i will simple NOT BUY IT, i'll not complain, i'll not even care! i'll focus on the things i like and be done with it...
Curious the that many of the voices liking this are: 'we liked this in other games but ESO is different please make it like those other games that we no longer play'.
Seems like you don't want something different you would like those of us who play this because it is different to conform to the same system as those games you are nostalgic for.
Its your right to feel that way just don't try and dress it up as some brave pioneering effort that we are trying to prevent.
WoW had Arenas, I didn't like them*. -> this should never be implemented in ESO, not even for players who do like Arenas.
*Note: I absolutely adored Arenas in WoW. Just stating this for sake of discussion.
That is your logic at the moment, and it's just not convincing, sorry.
I'm sure they'll have PvP content specifically tailored for your taste in the future, just not this time.Another factor is, in those PvP games, everyone who subbed knew it was a true, all encompassing PvP game. Those who didn't like that, those who are "pure PvE players", simply did not sub to those PvP games ever so they wouldn't feel "robbed" or "cheated". Something that is happening with IC in ESO.
There is no MMO in history more successful than World of Warcraft, and that game is most renowned for its end game PvE. Yet, developers added in Battlegrounds, they added Arenas, they had open world PvP (Contested zones).
Did people complain about them, and demand these PvPers should get nothing?
The entire reason they developed BGs, was to have different style of PvP experience for people who didn't enjoy open world. The reason for creating Arenas was to provide different style of PvP experience for people who didn't enjoy BGs and/or open world.
The reason ESO gets Imperial City is to provide different type of PvP experience for people who don't enjoy the current "zerg zerg die (whatever) respawn zerg zerg". It's that simple, really.Edited by DDuke on July 20, 2015 1:36PM2 -
Tavore1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SuraklinPrime wrote: »WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »Which is what makes me really sad, to be honest. Every time a developer tries to add something more hardcore or just different, people kick and scream until everything is brought back into line of the tried and tested play pen of mediocrity.
And then people wonder why the genre is stagnating.
Amen... Couldn't agree more.
Amen²...
When the devs do the same safe thing everyone complains that there are no reasons to play their game because it doesn't bring anything new and is equal to all other games, WHEN the devs try to break from it and do something different or hardcore or simple with the intention to create a risk vs reward environment in something you are doing then people scream that it is unfair, it is bad, it will fail, that the devs are forcing something different in them that they don't want to do, they complain saying why the devs are wasting time and money creating this thing when they can add more of the same content that i like and already takes 90% of the ENTIRE GAME.
If i don't like something i will simple NOT BUY IT, i'll not complain, i'll not even care! i'll focus on the things i like and be done with it...
Curious the that many of the voices liking this are: 'we liked this in other games but ESO is different please make it like those other games that we no longer play'.
Seems like you don't want something different you would like those of us who play this because it is different to conform to the same system as those games you are nostalgic for.
Its your right to feel that way just don't try and dress it up as some brave pioneering effort that we are trying to prevent.
WoW had Arenas, I didn't like them*. -> this should never be implemented in ESO, not even for players who do like Arenas.
*Note: I absolutely adored Arenas in WoW. Just stating this for sake of discussion.
That is your logic at the moment, and it's just not convincing, sorry.
I'm sure they'll have PvP content specifically tailored for your taste in the future, just not this time.Another factor is, in those PvP games, everyone who subbed knew it was a true, all encompassing PvP game. Those who didn't like that, those who are "pure PvE players", simply did not sub to those PvP games ever so they wouldn't feel "robbed" or "cheated". Something that is happening with IC in ESO.
There is no MMO in history more successful than World of Warcraft, and that game is most renowned for its end game PvE. Yet, developers added in Battlegrounds, they added Arenas, they had open world PvP (Contested zones).
Did people complain about them, and demand these PvPers should get nothing?
The entire reason they developed BGs, was to have different style of PvP experience for people who didn't enjoy open world. The reason for creating Arenas was to provide different style of PvP experience for people who didn't enjoy BGs and/or open world.
The reason ESO gets Imperial City is to provide different type of PvP experience for people who don't enjoy the current "zerg zerg die (whatever) respawn zerg zerg". It's that simple, really.
No, my logic is not the reverse of the logic I just called out - I have never played another MMO so I can only base my opinions on what I have read, seen or been told.
I play this MMO for several reasons... TES connection is first, close following was that after playing the beta I found the PvP and other interactive parts to be designed in a goid way that seemed to avoid most of the things that put me off playing other MMOs. I enjoy PvP, as you know, and I am passably competent at it but would never claim to be great... on balance as I get IC for free I will probably go in but I will only be taking stones if it happens because people with stones engage me, I will not be hunting for targets to rob because I have no desire to ruin someone's day in that particular way... whereas I have no issue with killing in Cyro either in group or running solo because the only thing that gets hurt is someones ego...
GM - Malazan
Raid Leader - Hungry Wolves
Legio Mortuum0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SuraklinPrime wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »Which is what makes me really sad, to be honest. Every time a developer tries to add something more hardcore or just different, people kick and scream until everything is brought back into line of the tried and tested play pen of mediocrity.
And then people wonder why the genre is stagnating.
Amen... Couldn't agree more.
Amen²...
When the devs do the same safe thing everyone complains that there are no reasons to play their game because it doesn't bring anything new and is equal to all other games, WHEN the devs try to break from it and do something different or hardcore or simple with the intention to create a risk vs reward environment in something you are doing then people scream that it is unfair, it is bad, it will fail, that the devs are forcing something different in them that they don't want to do, they complain saying why the devs are wasting time and money creating this thing when they can add more of the same content that i like and already takes 90% of the ENTIRE GAME.
If i don't like something i will simple NOT BUY IT, i'll not complain, i'll not even care! i'll focus on the things i like and be done with it...
Curious the that many of the voices liking this are: 'we liked this in other games but ESO is different please make it like those other games that we no longer play'.
Seems like you don't want something different you would like those of us who play this because it is different to conform to the same system as those games you are nostalgic for.
Its your right to feel that way just don't try and dress it up as some brave pioneering effort that we are trying to prevent.
WoW had Arenas, I didn't like them*. -> this should never be implemented in ESO, not even for players who do like Arenas.
*Note: I absolutely adored Arenas in WoW. Just stating this for sake of discussion.
That is your logic at the moment, and it's just not convincing, sorry.
I'm sure they'll have PvP content specifically tailored for your taste in the future, just not this time.Another factor is, in those PvP games, everyone who subbed knew it was a true, all encompassing PvP game. Those who didn't like that, those who are "pure PvE players", simply did not sub to those PvP games ever so they wouldn't feel "robbed" or "cheated". Something that is happening with IC in ESO.
There is no MMO in history more successful than World of Warcraft, and that game is most renowned for its end game PvE. Yet, developers added in Battlegrounds, they added Arenas, they had open world PvP (Contested zones).
Did people complain about them, and demand these PvPers should get nothing?
The entire reason they developed BGs, was to have different style of PvP experience for people who didn't enjoy open world. The reason for creating Arenas was to provide different style of PvP experience for people who didn't enjoy BGs and/or open world.
The reason ESO gets Imperial City is to provide different type of PvP experience for people who don't enjoy the current "zerg zerg die (whatever) respawn zerg zerg". It's that simple, really.
No, my logic is not the reverse of the logic I just called out - I have never played another MMO so I can only base my opinions on what I have read, seen or been told.
I play this MMO for several reasons... TES connection is first, close following was that after playing the beta I found the PvP and other interactive parts to be designed in a goid way that seemed to avoid most of the things that put me off playing other MMOs. I enjoy PvP, as you know, and I am passably competent at it but would never claim to be great... on balance as I get IC for free I will probably go in but I will only be taking stones if it happens because people with stones engage me, I will not be hunting for targets to rob because I have no desire to ruin someone's day in that particular way... whereas I have no issue with killing in Cyro either in group or running solo because the only thing that gets hurt is someones ego...
That's perfectly ok, but the point is that it's not just about you or me and what we think. There's a bigger picture, where different people prefer different type of PvP.
The PvP you enjoy, it'll still be there, except now people have another option as well if they don't enjoy the type of PvP ESO currently offers.
Just like what WoW & other MMOs did by implementing different game modes, just what MOBAs* do by providing different map mechanics and so on.
This is good for the overall health of the game, and also provides you with another option, if you ever find yourself getting bored of the current ESO PvP.
*I'm surprised nobody has brought up MOBAs so far. In many, many MOBAs one of the most common map mechanics is killing the other players & taking the coins/whatever they've collected by killing NPCs.Edited by DDuke on July 20, 2015 1:57PM1 -
Septimus_Magna✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Septimus_Magna wrote: »I think most people forget that they have a lot of control about the amount of risk they take.
...
They don't seem to care. Any risk seems too much for them.
The devs went into great detail how to mitigate the risk of losing your stones in the same presentation that sparked all this outrage. Repeating that you can acquire safe stone boxes from dailies, or that you can frequently travel back to bank your stones, or that you can travel in groups and stay close to your safe zones - all of that fell on deaf ears. It seems to be the very idea of losing something that causes some people to go on a rampage. Which is also why adjusting the loss percentage will not do anything to appease them.
And removing the so called "stealing" alltogether would gut the Imperial City completely. The whole point of the Tel Var Stone system - banking them, multipliers, safe boxes, loss on death - is risk management. Without risk, it's just another generic currency grind, absolutely pointless.
Which is what makes me really sad, to be honest. Every time a developer tries to add something more hardcore or just different, people kick and scream until everything is brought back into line of the tried and tested play pen of mediocrity.
And then people wonder why the genre is stagnating.
I completely agree, the fact that there's an upside to the risk is completely ignored. Any game changing mechanic will always be frowned upon at first because most people simply dont like change. I think its great there will be a dynamic benefit for killing other players and possibly a huge disadvantage when you get killed by other players. This will make fights so much more engaging and exciting because you're actually fighting to keep whats yours and eventually to take whats theirs. Sure, it will frustrating to lose stones but man I will be great to take them after you beat someone else. The fact that the stones are divided by the group members is also a great way to disencourage zerging. The zerg gains very little for killing a few players, its gets interesting when you kill players with a small group or solo. Or when you kill a big group with only a few players^^Edited by Septimus_Magna on July 20, 2015 1:59PMPC - EU (AD)Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
Septimus Rulanir - Orsimer Templar
Septimus Desmoru - Khajiit Necromancer
Septimus Iroh - Dunmer Dragon Knight
Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
Septimus Ozurk - Orsimer Sorcerer1 -
Korah_Eaglecry✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SuraklinPrime wrote: »WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »Which is what makes me really sad, to be honest. Every time a developer tries to add something more hardcore or just different, people kick and scream until everything is brought back into line of the tried and tested play pen of mediocrity.
And then people wonder why the genre is stagnating.
Amen... Couldn't agree more.
Amen²...
When the devs do the same safe thing everyone complains that there are no reasons to play their game because it doesn't bring anything new and is equal to all other games, WHEN the devs try to break from it and do something different or hardcore or simple with the intention to create a risk vs reward environment in something you are doing then people scream that it is unfair, it is bad, it will fail, that the devs are forcing something different in them that they don't want to do, they complain saying why the devs are wasting time and money creating this thing when they can add more of the same content that i like and already takes 90% of the ENTIRE GAME.
If i don't like something i will simple NOT BUY IT, i'll not complain, i'll not even care! i'll focus on the things i like and be done with it...
Curious the that many of the voices liking this are: 'we liked this in other games but ESO is different please make it like those other games that we no longer play'.
Seems like you don't want something different you would like those of us who play this because it is different to conform to the same system as those games you are nostalgic for.
Its your right to feel that way just don't try and dress it up as some brave pioneering effort that we are trying to prevent.
WoW had Arenas, I didn't like them*. -> this should never be implemented in ESO, not even for players who do like Arenas.
*Note: I absolutely adored Arenas in WoW. Just stating this for sake of discussion.
That is your logic at the moment, and it's just not convincing, sorry.
I'm sure they'll have PvP content specifically tailored for your taste in the future, just not this time.Another factor is, in those PvP games, everyone who subbed knew it was a true, all encompassing PvP game. Those who didn't like that, those who are "pure PvE players", simply did not sub to those PvP games ever so they wouldn't feel "robbed" or "cheated". Something that is happening with IC in ESO.
There is no MMO in history more successful than World of Warcraft, and that game is most renowned for its end game PvE. Yet, developers added in Battlegrounds, they added Arenas, they had open world PvP (Contested zones).
Did people complain about them, and demand these PvPers should get nothing?
The entire reason they developed BGs, was to have different style of PvP experience for people who didn't enjoy open world. The reason for creating Arenas was to provide different style of PvP experience for people who didn't enjoy BGs and/or open world.
The reason ESO gets Imperial City is to provide different type of PvP experience for people who don't enjoy the current "zerg zerg die (whatever) respawn zerg zerg". It's that simple, really.
Oh so ONLY YOUR type of PvP should be added to the game. Not PvP for people who may want 1v1 and 3v3?Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount - Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the GrimjawlTenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'LesAban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia SeverinusWhat is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »Which is what makes me really sad, to be honest. Every time a developer tries to add something more hardcore or just different, people kick and scream until everything is brought back into line of the tried and tested play pen of mediocrity.
And then people wonder why the genre is stagnating.
Amen... Couldn't agree more.
Amen²...
When the devs do the same safe thing everyone complains that there are no reasons to play their game because it doesn't bring anything new and is equal to all other games, WHEN the devs try to break from it and do something different or hardcore or simple with the intention to create a risk vs reward environment in something you are doing then people scream that it is unfair, it is bad, it will fail, that the devs are forcing something different in them that they don't want to do, they complain saying why the devs are wasting time and money creating this thing when they can add more of the same content that i like and already takes 90% of the ENTIRE GAME.
If i don't like something i will simple NOT BUY IT, i'll not complain, i'll not even care! i'll focus on the things i like and be done with it...
Curious the that many of the voices liking this are: 'we liked this in other games but ESO is different please make it like those other games that we no longer play'.
Seems like you don't want something different you would like those of us who play this because it is different to conform to the same system as those games you are nostalgic for.
Its your right to feel that way just don't try and dress it up as some brave pioneering effort that we are trying to prevent.
WoW had Arenas, I didn't like them*. -> this should never be implemented in ESO, not even for players who do like Arenas.
*Note: I absolutely adored Arenas in WoW. Just stating this for sake of discussion.
That is your logic at the moment, and it's just not convincing, sorry.
I'm sure they'll have PvP content specifically tailored for your taste in the future, just not this time.Another factor is, in those PvP games, everyone who subbed knew it was a true, all encompassing PvP game. Those who didn't like that, those who are "pure PvE players", simply did not sub to those PvP games ever so they wouldn't feel "robbed" or "cheated". Something that is happening with IC in ESO.
There is no MMO in history more successful than World of Warcraft, and that game is most renowned for its end game PvE. Yet, developers added in Battlegrounds, they added Arenas, they had open world PvP (Contested zones).
Did people complain about them, and demand these PvPers should get nothing?
The entire reason they developed BGs, was to have different style of PvP experience for people who didn't enjoy open world. The reason for creating Arenas was to provide different style of PvP experience for people who didn't enjoy BGs and/or open world.
The reason ESO gets Imperial City is to provide different type of PvP experience for people who don't enjoy the current "zerg zerg die (whatever) respawn zerg zerg". It's that simple, really.
Oh so ONLY YOUR type of PvP should be added to the game. Not PvP for people who may want 1v1 and 3v3?
No, who said that?
I would absolutely love to see & participate in Arenas / BGs for 1v1, 3v3, 10v10, 15v15, 40v40 and so on, in the future.
But this is not what they had in mind for this DLC and frankly I'm just as happy with what we're getting.
Being a PvEr as well, I would also love for them to add in 24-man progressive raids with gear checks, tank rotations, mobs you have to CC etc... traditional raids, if you will. And if we're not getting these in the coming DLCs I will be rightfully pissed lol
I won't throw a fit if they provide content for those interested in questing or small group however, even if I don't enjoy these aspects just as much.Edited by DDuke on July 20, 2015 2:13PM0 -
KerinKor✭✭✭✭✭
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Sorry, that ZOS poster is at best disingenous .. IC adds PVE PROGRESSION content gated (VR16 gear needing IC items) by FORCED-PVP!ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.
You heard it here folks. Is this where we say /thread?
The only PVP here is pandering to the gankers, there is NO REAL PVP aspect to largeparts of IC.Edited by KerinKor on July 20, 2015 2:13PM0 -
Robbmrp✭✭✭✭✭
✭I agree with others who believe that we should not lose the stones we've earned because some one lurked in the shadows and killed us. We are PAYING for this content to only have it be taken away by some ganker who doesn't have the skill to obtain them without ganking. @ZOS should award the stones based on the same principles that AP is based on. Player kills, siege fights, anything that can be done in Imperial City should award stones that cannot be taken.NA Server - Kildair1 -
ZOS_GinaBrunoCommunity ManagerFirst, we want to thank everyone for posting their feedback so far. As we mentioned on ESO Live last week, the new Tel Var Stone system is intended to be high risk, high reward, and will bring a lot of excitement to PvP. We encourage everyone to try it out on the PTS once it's available and let us know what you think! We'll be keeping a close eye on feedback, and will make adjustments if necessary without compromising the intent of the system.9 -
KerinKor✭✭✭✭✭
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So why gate PVE progression by items only obtainable by forced-PVPing?ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »First, we want to thank everyone for posting their feedback so far. As we mentioned on ESO Live last week, the new Tel Var Stone system is intended to be high risk, high reward, and will bring a lot of excitement to PvP. We encourage everyone to try it out on the PTS once it's available and let us know what you think! We'll be keeping a close eye on feedback, and will make adjustments if necessary without compromising the intent of the system.
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Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
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So why gate PVE progression by items only obtainable by forced-PVPing?ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »First, we want to thank everyone for posting their feedback so far. As we mentioned on ESO Live last week, the new Tel Var Stone system is intended to be high risk, high reward, and will bring a lot of excitement to PvP. We encourage everyone to try it out on the PTS once it's available and let us know what you think! We'll be keeping a close eye on feedback, and will make adjustments if necessary without compromising the intent of the system.
Just farm gold and buy them. Trials gear isn't available to PVPers unless they find some PVE friends to help them run it, but it sounded like all of the new gear in IC can be traded.
Let's face it, if you're a PVEer, you're probably running cyrodiil's light rings, or shadow walker rings, or morag tong, etc. and that gear all comes from pvp. If you aren't a PVPer, you probably just bought it from a guild store right? IC will be no different.3 -
Ysne58✭✭✭✭✭I'm still waiting for a counter argument to the undaunted sets question. It seems this one is continually ignored. ZOS stated this is PVP focused content. PVE players believe they shouldn't have to pvp to get gear. The question: Why is it ok to force pve onto pvp players for undaunted sets? Someone answer it. I'm curious.
There should be a way to get those sets in pvp. I always thought that was a dumb mechanic. I still think looking PvE players is a dumb idea. It's one of the reasons I'm leaning away from getting this. Another reason is I would have to pay twice for this content if I want it on both NA and EU.
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Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
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So why gate PVE progression by items only obtainable by forced-PVPing?ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »First, we want to thank everyone for posting their feedback so far. As we mentioned on ESO Live last week, the new Tel Var Stone system is intended to be high risk, high reward, and will bring a lot of excitement to PvP. We encourage everyone to try it out on the PTS once it's available and let us know what you think! We'll be keeping a close eye on feedback, and will make adjustments if necessary without compromising the intent of the system.
What PVE progression is gated by IC?
You will be perfectly able to complete all PvE content without even touching IC PvP areas, just like you can today.Edited by Sharee on July 20, 2015 2:25PM0 -
NobleNerd✭✭✭✭FooWasHere wrote: »ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.
If you would have added IC in all its glory I'm sure it would've been fine, a great and needed addition to the PVP-scape. And I agree it's only fair that Cyrodiil got the first DLC update.
But @ZOS_RichLambert , you seem to forget that it's not what you did. You increased the level cap as well. And added an entire new gear tier with unique crafting material--potions and enchants included. All exclusive to the IC.
So by increasing the level and gear cap for all, while adding content (practically) only to the PvP side, I think you can understand that many now feel that they are 'forced' into PvP or have to grind out 2 VR levels on old content with diminishing returns, due to the increasing VR difference (or run do those 2 new dungeons a lot of times...). In addition to this, most old PVE gear is now entirely obsolete (much was already obsolescent after 1.6), in addition to making previously self-sufficient crafters complete consumers.
So saying that "this is simply not for you" isn't really going to appeal to the people that are upset about it.
(Re-use of comment made on Elloa's youtube.)
Plain and simple.... this is a PvP update to the game. This is a content update that was suppose to be in the game as a core feature before it went to b2p.
BUT.... ZOS has now added 2 more vr levels without elements for both PvE and PvP players to effectively level through without being forced to be in PvP zones to do so. Adding 2 PvE dungeons to a content that is clearly meant to be a PvP update does not justify the 2 vr levels required for all players to grind through.
Now if the PvE DLC makes its way into the game a month or two after this then the failure of this DLC might be overlooked.1 -
KerinKor✭✭✭✭✭
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So why gate PVE progression by items only obtainable by forced-PVPing?ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »First, we want to thank everyone for posting their feedback so far. As we mentioned on ESO Live last week, the new Tel Var Stone system is intended to be high risk, high reward, and will bring a lot of excitement to PvP. We encourage everyone to try it out on the PTS once it's available and let us know what you think! We'll be keeping a close eye on feedback, and will make adjustments if necessary without compromising the intent of the system.
What PVE progression is gated by IC?
You will be perfectly able to complete all PvE content without even touching IC PvP areas, just like you can today.
ZOS announcement page!Rewards that are unmatched in power await those who are brave enough to enter the Imperial City and claim them. Fight Molag Bal's personal guard, the elite Xivkyn, and other invaders from Coldharbour to win Tel Var Stones, the currency used to trade for mighty Veteran Rank 16 armor sets.
WIthout gear you can't play content, thus the content is GATED by the gear GATED by Stones which are forced-PVP only, unless you want to be held to ransom by price-gouging PVP gankers.
Q.E.D.Edited by KerinKor on July 20, 2015 2:29PM0 -
Mysfit✭✭I'll say this again, how have so many of you formed an opinion on something that: a) you haven't even tried yet and b) still needs to be tested? It is ridiculous how much this community complains about this game when the devs are clearly trying to cater to both the PvE and PvP communities. Look up the term loss aversion and tell me this isn't a perfect example of it. You have no idea how this will work out in the end....it might actually be a really awesome system for PvE and PvP players. But now that you've formed such a negative opinion about something you have ZERO knowledge about, you'll provide all this terrible feedback that the devs will be forced to consider. Take a chill pill fellas, and enjoy the game. If its providing you with so much angst, then don't play it...it's that simple.
P.S. you realize that by complaining on these forums, you are basically asking to get ganked in IC right?
Edited by Mysfit on July 20, 2015 2:32PM1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
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So why gate PVE progression by items only obtainable by forced-PVPing?ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »First, we want to thank everyone for posting their feedback so far. As we mentioned on ESO Live last week, the new Tel Var Stone system is intended to be high risk, high reward, and will bring a lot of excitement to PvP. We encourage everyone to try it out on the PTS once it's available and let us know what you think! We'll be keeping a close eye on feedback, and will make adjustments if necessary without compromising the intent of the system.
What PVE progression is gated by IC?
You will be perfectly able to complete all PvE content without even touching IC PvP areas, just like you can today.
ZOS announcement page!Rewards that are unmatched in power await those who are brave enough to enter the Imperial City and claim them. Fight Molag Bal's personal guard, the elite Xivkyn, and other invaders from Coldharbour to win Tel Var Stones, the currency used to trade for mighty Veteran Rank 16 armor sets.
WIthout gear you can't play content, thus the content is GATED by the gear GATED by Stones which are forced-PVP only, unless you want to be held to ransom by price-gouging PVP gankers.
Q.E.D.
Hardly QED.
I asked you what content will be gated by the new gear. The answer is none. Because there is no PvE content that would require higher gear than VR14 before you can complete it.1 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
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So why gate PVE progression by items only obtainable by forced-PVPing?ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »First, we want to thank everyone for posting their feedback so far. As we mentioned on ESO Live last week, the new Tel Var Stone system is intended to be high risk, high reward, and will bring a lot of excitement to PvP. We encourage everyone to try it out on the PTS once it's available and let us know what you think! We'll be keeping a close eye on feedback, and will make adjustments if necessary without compromising the intent of the system.
That is 100% opposite of the reality in-game: PVP progression is gated by PVE requirements.
PVP players...
-Have to bust through the main story questline to get to the veteran zones.
-Have to bust through cadwell's silver to get to areas to level to vr14 as PVP XP is outright too low to do so with in any reasonable timeframe.
-Have to PVE repeatedly and daily, on multiple characters generally, with the Undaunted pledges to get the gold keys for bind on pickup sets that only come there but are widely applicable to builds game-wide in pve and PVP.
-Have to PVE trials and weeklies to get gear that only comes from them. This includes Veteran Dragonstar if using a Master weapon in your build, as they only come from there reliably, although a once-a-month or once-every-two-weeks campaign bag if you maintain a spot in the top 2% of the campaign can give you a low chance at one weapon of any type and any trait (unfeasible to get it from).
-Have to PVE repeatedly to get undaunted XP for the skill line or be left short 4-6% max hp/stam/magicka from the passive.
PVE players...
-Never have to step foot in Cyrodiil or the Imperial City and can just buy everything off a guild kiosk.Edited by Attorneyatlawl on July 20, 2015 2:33PM-First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
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-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.7 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
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So why gate PVE progression by items only obtainable by forced-PVPing?ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »First, we want to thank everyone for posting their feedback so far. As we mentioned on ESO Live last week, the new Tel Var Stone system is intended to be high risk, high reward, and will bring a lot of excitement to PvP. We encourage everyone to try it out on the PTS once it's available and let us know what you think! We'll be keeping a close eye on feedback, and will make adjustments if necessary without compromising the intent of the system.
What PVE progression is gated by IC?
You will be perfectly able to complete all PvE content without even touching IC PvP areas, just like you can today.
ZOS announcement page!Rewards that are unmatched in power await those who are brave enough to enter the Imperial City and claim them. Fight Molag Bal's personal guard, the elite Xivkyn, and other invaders from Coldharbour to win Tel Var Stones, the currency used to trade for mighty Veteran Rank 16 armor sets.
WIthout gear you can't play content, thus the content is GATED by the gear GATED by Stones which are forced-PVP only, unless you want to be held to ransom by price-gouging PVP gankers.
Q.E.D.
Where does it state gear is BoP, or that equally strong gear doesn't drop from the new group dungeons? Or that the SO sets etc won't be good after they've gone through revamp (also happening next patch)?
All we've learned is that these armour sets are "mighty", so hopefully they'll be worth using (so this DLC isn't a waste of time) lol
Besides, the best gear on live version of ESO already comes from PvP (Morag Tong, Shadow Walker, Ravager* etc).
*Note: I do not like this. In my opinion, hard to acquire gear such as Vicious Ophidian, Infallible Aether etc should be BiS due to the difficulty in acquiring them.
Edited by DDuke on July 20, 2015 2:37PM0 -
KerinKor✭✭✭✭✭
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LOL, so VR16 gear isn't needed till you finish VR16 content?
So why gate PVE progression by items only obtainable by forced-PVPing?ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »First, we want to thank everyone for posting their feedback so far. As we mentioned on ESO Live last week, the new Tel Var Stone system is intended to be high risk, high reward, and will bring a lot of excitement to PvP. We encourage everyone to try it out on the PTS once it's available and let us know what you think! We'll be keeping a close eye on feedback, and will make adjustments if necessary without compromising the intent of the system.
What PVE progression is gated by IC?
You will be perfectly able to complete all PvE content without even touching IC PvP areas, just like you can today.
ZOS announcement page!Rewards that are unmatched in power await those who are brave enough to enter the Imperial City and claim them. Fight Molag Bal's personal guard, the elite Xivkyn, and other invaders from Coldharbour to win Tel Var Stones, the currency used to trade for mighty Veteran Rank 16 armor sets.
WIthout gear you can't play content, thus the content is GATED by the gear GATED by Stones which are forced-PVP only, unless you want to be held to ransom by price-gouging PVP gankers.
Q.E.D.
Hardly QED.
I asked you what content will be gated by the new gear. The answer is none. Because there is no PvE content that would require higher gear than VR14 before you can complete it.
Really?
If that were true then clearly there's no point in VR16 at all!0 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
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So why gate PVE progression by items only obtainable by forced-PVPing?ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »First, we want to thank everyone for posting their feedback so far. As we mentioned on ESO Live last week, the new Tel Var Stone system is intended to be high risk, high reward, and will bring a lot of excitement to PvP. We encourage everyone to try it out on the PTS once it's available and let us know what you think! We'll be keeping a close eye on feedback, and will make adjustments if necessary without compromising the intent of the system.
What PVE progression is gated by IC?
You will be perfectly able to complete all PvE content without even touching IC PvP areas, just like you can today.
ZOS announcement page!Rewards that are unmatched in power await those who are brave enough to enter the Imperial City and claim them. Fight Molag Bal's personal guard, the elite Xivkyn, and other invaders from Coldharbour to win Tel Var Stones, the currency used to trade for mighty Veteran Rank 16 armor sets.
WIthout gear you can't play content, thus the content is GATED by the gear GATED by Stones which are forced-PVP only, unless you want to be held to ransom by price-gouging PVP gankers.
Q.E.D.
I'll say it again since you didn't want to address my previous response since it pretty much invalidated your point. Just. Buy. The. Gear.
You can buy v16 gear from guild traders, so what's the problem? How is that gated? It's not like PVPers can buy undaunted set pieces or trials gear, but you can literally buy all of the pvp gear you need/want. Chill.3 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
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So why gate PVE progression by items only obtainable by forced-PVPing?ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »First, we want to thank everyone for posting their feedback so far. As we mentioned on ESO Live last week, the new Tel Var Stone system is intended to be high risk, high reward, and will bring a lot of excitement to PvP. We encourage everyone to try it out on the PTS once it's available and let us know what you think! We'll be keeping a close eye on feedback, and will make adjustments if necessary without compromising the intent of the system.
BOEEdited by timidobserver on July 20, 2015 2:36PMV16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)1
