Septimus_Magna wrote: »I think most people forget that they have a lot of control about the amount of risk they take.
...
Which is what makes me really sad, to be honest. Every time a developer tries to add something more hardcore or just different, people kick and scream until everything is brought back into line of the tried and tested play pen of mediocrity.
And then people wonder why the genre is stagnating.
Which is what makes me really sad, to be honest. Every time a developer tries to add something more hardcore or just different, people kick and scream until everything is brought back into line of the tried and tested play pen of mediocrity.
And then people wonder why the genre is stagnating.
Amen... Couldn't agree more.
WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »Which is what makes me really sad, to be honest. Every time a developer tries to add something more hardcore or just different, people kick and scream until everything is brought back into line of the tried and tested play pen of mediocrity.
And then people wonder why the genre is stagnating.
Amen... Couldn't agree more.
Amen²...
When the devs do the same safe thing everyone complains that there are no reasons to play their game because it doesn't bring anything new and is equal to all other games, WHEN the devs try to break from it and do something different or hardcore or simple with the intention to create a risk vs reward environment in something you are doing then people scream that it is unfair, it is bad, it will fail, that the devs are forcing something different in them that they don't want to do, they complain saying why the devs are wasting time and money creating this thing when they can add more of the same content that i like and already takes 90% of the ENTIRE GAME.
If i don't like something i will simple NOT BUY IT, i'll not complain, i'll not even care! i'll focus on the things i like and be done with it...
WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »Which is what makes me really sad, to be honest. Every time a developer tries to add something more hardcore or just different, people kick and scream until everything is brought back into line of the tried and tested play pen of mediocrity.
And then people wonder why the genre is stagnating.
Amen... Couldn't agree more.
Amen²...
When the devs do the same safe thing everyone complains that there are no reasons to play their game because it doesn't bring anything new and is equal to all other games, WHEN the devs try to break from it and do something different or hardcore or simple with the intention to create a risk vs reward environment in something you are doing then people scream that it is unfair, it is bad, it will fail, that the devs are forcing something different in them that they don't want to do, they complain saying why the devs are wasting time and money creating this thing when they can add more of the same content that i like and already takes 90% of the ENTIRE GAME.
If i don't like something i will simple NOT BUY IT, i'll not complain, i'll not even care! i'll focus on the things i like and be done with it...
The devs went into great detail how to mitigate the risk of losing your stones in the same presentation that sparked all this outrage. Repeating that you can acquire safe stone boxes from dailies, or that you can frequently travel back to bank your stones, or that you can travel in groups and stay close to your safe zones - all of that fell on deaf ears. It seems to be the very idea of losing something that causes some people to go on a rampage. Which is also why adjusting the loss percentage will not do anything to appease them.
SuraklinPrime wrote: »WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »Which is what makes me really sad, to be honest. Every time a developer tries to add something more hardcore or just different, people kick and scream until everything is brought back into line of the tried and tested play pen of mediocrity.
And then people wonder why the genre is stagnating.
Amen... Couldn't agree more.
Amen²...
When the devs do the same safe thing everyone complains that there are no reasons to play their game because it doesn't bring anything new and is equal to all other games, WHEN the devs try to break from it and do something different or hardcore or simple with the intention to create a risk vs reward environment in something you are doing then people scream that it is unfair, it is bad, it will fail, that the devs are forcing something different in them that they don't want to do, they complain saying why the devs are wasting time and money creating this thing when they can add more of the same content that i like and already takes 90% of the ENTIRE GAME.
If i don't like something i will simple NOT BUY IT, i'll not complain, i'll not even care! i'll focus on the things i like and be done with it...
Curious the that many of the voices liking this are: 'we liked this in other games but ESO is different please make it like those other games that we no longer play'.
Seems like you don't want something different you would like those of us who play this because it is different to conform to the same system as those games you are nostalgic for.
Its your right to feel that way just don't try and dress it up as some brave pioneering effort that we are trying to prevent.
Another factor is, in those PvP games, everyone who subbed knew it was a true, all encompassing PvP game. Those who didn't like that, those who are "pure PvE players", simply did not sub to those PvP games ever so they wouldn't feel "robbed" or "cheated". Something that is happening with IC in ESO.
SuraklinPrime wrote: »WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »Which is what makes me really sad, to be honest. Every time a developer tries to add something more hardcore or just different, people kick and scream until everything is brought back into line of the tried and tested play pen of mediocrity.
And then people wonder why the genre is stagnating.
Amen... Couldn't agree more.
Amen²...
When the devs do the same safe thing everyone complains that there are no reasons to play their game because it doesn't bring anything new and is equal to all other games, WHEN the devs try to break from it and do something different or hardcore or simple with the intention to create a risk vs reward environment in something you are doing then people scream that it is unfair, it is bad, it will fail, that the devs are forcing something different in them that they don't want to do, they complain saying why the devs are wasting time and money creating this thing when they can add more of the same content that i like and already takes 90% of the ENTIRE GAME.
If i don't like something i will simple NOT BUY IT, i'll not complain, i'll not even care! i'll focus on the things i like and be done with it...
Curious the that many of the voices liking this are: 'we liked this in other games but ESO is different please make it like those other games that we no longer play'.
Seems like you don't want something different you would like those of us who play this because it is different to conform to the same system as those games you are nostalgic for.
Its your right to feel that way just don't try and dress it up as some brave pioneering effort that we are trying to prevent.
WoW had Arenas, I didn't like them*. -> this should never be implemented in ESO, not even for players who do like Arenas.
*Note: I absolutely adored Arenas in WoW. Just stating this for sake of discussion.
That is your logic at the moment, and it's just not convincing, sorry.
I'm sure they'll have PvP content specifically tailored for your taste in the future, just not this time.Another factor is, in those PvP games, everyone who subbed knew it was a true, all encompassing PvP game. Those who didn't like that, those who are "pure PvE players", simply did not sub to those PvP games ever so they wouldn't feel "robbed" or "cheated". Something that is happening with IC in ESO.
There is no MMO in history more successful than World of Warcraft, and that game is most renowned for its end game PvE. Yet, developers added in Battlegrounds, they added Arenas, they had open world PvP (Contested zones).
Did people complain about them, and demand these PvPers should get nothing?
The entire reason they developed BGs, was to have different style of PvP experience for people who didn't enjoy open world. The reason for creating Arenas was to provide different style of PvP experience for people who didn't enjoy BGs and/or open world.
The reason ESO gets Imperial City is to provide different type of PvP experience for people who don't enjoy the current "zerg zerg die (whatever) respawn zerg zerg". It's that simple, really.
SuraklinPrime wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »Which is what makes me really sad, to be honest. Every time a developer tries to add something more hardcore or just different, people kick and scream until everything is brought back into line of the tried and tested play pen of mediocrity.
And then people wonder why the genre is stagnating.
Amen... Couldn't agree more.
Amen²...
When the devs do the same safe thing everyone complains that there are no reasons to play their game because it doesn't bring anything new and is equal to all other games, WHEN the devs try to break from it and do something different or hardcore or simple with the intention to create a risk vs reward environment in something you are doing then people scream that it is unfair, it is bad, it will fail, that the devs are forcing something different in them that they don't want to do, they complain saying why the devs are wasting time and money creating this thing when they can add more of the same content that i like and already takes 90% of the ENTIRE GAME.
If i don't like something i will simple NOT BUY IT, i'll not complain, i'll not even care! i'll focus on the things i like and be done with it...
Curious the that many of the voices liking this are: 'we liked this in other games but ESO is different please make it like those other games that we no longer play'.
Seems like you don't want something different you would like those of us who play this because it is different to conform to the same system as those games you are nostalgic for.
Its your right to feel that way just don't try and dress it up as some brave pioneering effort that we are trying to prevent.
WoW had Arenas, I didn't like them*. -> this should never be implemented in ESO, not even for players who do like Arenas.
*Note: I absolutely adored Arenas in WoW. Just stating this for sake of discussion.
That is your logic at the moment, and it's just not convincing, sorry.
I'm sure they'll have PvP content specifically tailored for your taste in the future, just not this time.Another factor is, in those PvP games, everyone who subbed knew it was a true, all encompassing PvP game. Those who didn't like that, those who are "pure PvE players", simply did not sub to those PvP games ever so they wouldn't feel "robbed" or "cheated". Something that is happening with IC in ESO.
There is no MMO in history more successful than World of Warcraft, and that game is most renowned for its end game PvE. Yet, developers added in Battlegrounds, they added Arenas, they had open world PvP (Contested zones).
Did people complain about them, and demand these PvPers should get nothing?
The entire reason they developed BGs, was to have different style of PvP experience for people who didn't enjoy open world. The reason for creating Arenas was to provide different style of PvP experience for people who didn't enjoy BGs and/or open world.
The reason ESO gets Imperial City is to provide different type of PvP experience for people who don't enjoy the current "zerg zerg die (whatever) respawn zerg zerg". It's that simple, really.
No, my logic is not the reverse of the logic I just called out - I have never played another MMO so I can only base my opinions on what I have read, seen or been told.
I play this MMO for several reasons... TES connection is first, close following was that after playing the beta I found the PvP and other interactive parts to be designed in a goid way that seemed to avoid most of the things that put me off playing other MMOs. I enjoy PvP, as you know, and I am passably competent at it but would never claim to be great... on balance as I get IC for free I will probably go in but I will only be taking stones if it happens because people with stones engage me, I will not be hunting for targets to rob because I have no desire to ruin someone's day in that particular way... whereas I have no issue with killing in Cyro either in group or running solo because the only thing that gets hurt is someones ego...
Septimus_Magna wrote: »I think most people forget that they have a lot of control about the amount of risk they take.
...
They don't seem to care. Any risk seems too much for them.
The devs went into great detail how to mitigate the risk of losing your stones in the same presentation that sparked all this outrage. Repeating that you can acquire safe stone boxes from dailies, or that you can frequently travel back to bank your stones, or that you can travel in groups and stay close to your safe zones - all of that fell on deaf ears. It seems to be the very idea of losing something that causes some people to go on a rampage. Which is also why adjusting the loss percentage will not do anything to appease them.
And removing the so called "stealing" alltogether would gut the Imperial City completely. The whole point of the Tel Var Stone system - banking them, multipliers, safe boxes, loss on death - is risk management. Without risk, it's just another generic currency grind, absolutely pointless.
Which is what makes me really sad, to be honest. Every time a developer tries to add something more hardcore or just different, people kick and scream until everything is brought back into line of the tried and tested play pen of mediocrity.
And then people wonder why the genre is stagnating.
SuraklinPrime wrote: »WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »Which is what makes me really sad, to be honest. Every time a developer tries to add something more hardcore or just different, people kick and scream until everything is brought back into line of the tried and tested play pen of mediocrity.
And then people wonder why the genre is stagnating.
Amen... Couldn't agree more.
Amen²...
When the devs do the same safe thing everyone complains that there are no reasons to play their game because it doesn't bring anything new and is equal to all other games, WHEN the devs try to break from it and do something different or hardcore or simple with the intention to create a risk vs reward environment in something you are doing then people scream that it is unfair, it is bad, it will fail, that the devs are forcing something different in them that they don't want to do, they complain saying why the devs are wasting time and money creating this thing when they can add more of the same content that i like and already takes 90% of the ENTIRE GAME.
If i don't like something i will simple NOT BUY IT, i'll not complain, i'll not even care! i'll focus on the things i like and be done with it...
Curious the that many of the voices liking this are: 'we liked this in other games but ESO is different please make it like those other games that we no longer play'.
Seems like you don't want something different you would like those of us who play this because it is different to conform to the same system as those games you are nostalgic for.
Its your right to feel that way just don't try and dress it up as some brave pioneering effort that we are trying to prevent.
WoW had Arenas, I didn't like them*. -> this should never be implemented in ESO, not even for players who do like Arenas.
*Note: I absolutely adored Arenas in WoW. Just stating this for sake of discussion.
That is your logic at the moment, and it's just not convincing, sorry.
I'm sure they'll have PvP content specifically tailored for your taste in the future, just not this time.Another factor is, in those PvP games, everyone who subbed knew it was a true, all encompassing PvP game. Those who didn't like that, those who are "pure PvE players", simply did not sub to those PvP games ever so they wouldn't feel "robbed" or "cheated". Something that is happening with IC in ESO.
There is no MMO in history more successful than World of Warcraft, and that game is most renowned for its end game PvE. Yet, developers added in Battlegrounds, they added Arenas, they had open world PvP (Contested zones).
Did people complain about them, and demand these PvPers should get nothing?
The entire reason they developed BGs, was to have different style of PvP experience for people who didn't enjoy open world. The reason for creating Arenas was to provide different style of PvP experience for people who didn't enjoy BGs and/or open world.
The reason ESO gets Imperial City is to provide different type of PvP experience for people who don't enjoy the current "zerg zerg die (whatever) respawn zerg zerg". It's that simple, really.
Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »Which is what makes me really sad, to be honest. Every time a developer tries to add something more hardcore or just different, people kick and scream until everything is brought back into line of the tried and tested play pen of mediocrity.
And then people wonder why the genre is stagnating.
Amen... Couldn't agree more.
Amen²...
When the devs do the same safe thing everyone complains that there are no reasons to play their game because it doesn't bring anything new and is equal to all other games, WHEN the devs try to break from it and do something different or hardcore or simple with the intention to create a risk vs reward environment in something you are doing then people scream that it is unfair, it is bad, it will fail, that the devs are forcing something different in them that they don't want to do, they complain saying why the devs are wasting time and money creating this thing when they can add more of the same content that i like and already takes 90% of the ENTIRE GAME.
If i don't like something i will simple NOT BUY IT, i'll not complain, i'll not even care! i'll focus on the things i like and be done with it...
Curious the that many of the voices liking this are: 'we liked this in other games but ESO is different please make it like those other games that we no longer play'.
Seems like you don't want something different you would like those of us who play this because it is different to conform to the same system as those games you are nostalgic for.
Its your right to feel that way just don't try and dress it up as some brave pioneering effort that we are trying to prevent.
WoW had Arenas, I didn't like them*. -> this should never be implemented in ESO, not even for players who do like Arenas.
*Note: I absolutely adored Arenas in WoW. Just stating this for sake of discussion.
That is your logic at the moment, and it's just not convincing, sorry.
I'm sure they'll have PvP content specifically tailored for your taste in the future, just not this time.Another factor is, in those PvP games, everyone who subbed knew it was a true, all encompassing PvP game. Those who didn't like that, those who are "pure PvE players", simply did not sub to those PvP games ever so they wouldn't feel "robbed" or "cheated". Something that is happening with IC in ESO.
There is no MMO in history more successful than World of Warcraft, and that game is most renowned for its end game PvE. Yet, developers added in Battlegrounds, they added Arenas, they had open world PvP (Contested zones).
Did people complain about them, and demand these PvPers should get nothing?
The entire reason they developed BGs, was to have different style of PvP experience for people who didn't enjoy open world. The reason for creating Arenas was to provide different style of PvP experience for people who didn't enjoy BGs and/or open world.
The reason ESO gets Imperial City is to provide different type of PvP experience for people who don't enjoy the current "zerg zerg die (whatever) respawn zerg zerg". It's that simple, really.
Oh so ONLY YOUR type of PvP should be added to the game. Not PvP for people who may want 1v1 and 3v3?
Sorry, that ZOS poster is at best disingenous .. IC adds PVE PROGRESSION content gated (VR16 gear needing IC items) by FORCED-PVP!ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.
You heard it here folks. Is this where we say /thread?
So why gate PVE progression by items only obtainable by forced-PVPing?ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »First, we want to thank everyone for posting their feedback so far. As we mentioned on ESO Live last week, the new Tel Var Stone system is intended to be high risk, high reward, and will bring a lot of excitement to PvP. We encourage everyone to try it out on the PTS once it's available and let us know what you think! We'll be keeping a close eye on feedback, and will make adjustments if necessary without compromising the intent of the system.
So why gate PVE progression by items only obtainable by forced-PVPing?ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »First, we want to thank everyone for posting their feedback so far. As we mentioned on ESO Live last week, the new Tel Var Stone system is intended to be high risk, high reward, and will bring a lot of excitement to PvP. We encourage everyone to try it out on the PTS once it's available and let us know what you think! We'll be keeping a close eye on feedback, and will make adjustments if necessary without compromising the intent of the system.
I'm still waiting for a counter argument to the undaunted sets question. It seems this one is continually ignored. ZOS stated this is PVP focused content. PVE players believe they shouldn't have to pvp to get gear. The question: Why is it ok to force pve onto pvp players for undaunted sets? Someone answer it. I'm curious.
So why gate PVE progression by items only obtainable by forced-PVPing?ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »First, we want to thank everyone for posting their feedback so far. As we mentioned on ESO Live last week, the new Tel Var Stone system is intended to be high risk, high reward, and will bring a lot of excitement to PvP. We encourage everyone to try it out on the PTS once it's available and let us know what you think! We'll be keeping a close eye on feedback, and will make adjustments if necessary without compromising the intent of the system.
FooWasHere wrote: »ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.
If you would have added IC in all its glory I'm sure it would've been fine, a great and needed addition to the PVP-scape. And I agree it's only fair that Cyrodiil got the first DLC update.
But @ZOS_RichLambert , you seem to forget that it's not what you did. You increased the level cap as well. And added an entire new gear tier with unique crafting material--potions and enchants included. All exclusive to the IC.
So by increasing the level and gear cap for all, while adding content (practically) only to the PvP side, I think you can understand that many now feel that they are 'forced' into PvP or have to grind out 2 VR levels on old content with diminishing returns, due to the increasing VR difference (or run do those 2 new dungeons a lot of times...). In addition to this, most old PVE gear is now entirely obsolete (much was already obsolescent after 1.6), in addition to making previously self-sufficient crafters complete consumers.
So saying that "this is simply not for you" isn't really going to appeal to the people that are upset about it.
(Re-use of comment made on Elloa's youtube.)
So why gate PVE progression by items only obtainable by forced-PVPing?ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »First, we want to thank everyone for posting their feedback so far. As we mentioned on ESO Live last week, the new Tel Var Stone system is intended to be high risk, high reward, and will bring a lot of excitement to PvP. We encourage everyone to try it out on the PTS once it's available and let us know what you think! We'll be keeping a close eye on feedback, and will make adjustments if necessary without compromising the intent of the system.
What PVE progression is gated by IC?
You will be perfectly able to complete all PvE content without even touching IC PvP areas, just like you can today.
Rewards that are unmatched in power await those who are brave enough to enter the Imperial City and claim them. Fight Molag Bal's personal guard, the elite Xivkyn, and other invaders from Coldharbour to win Tel Var Stones, the currency used to trade for mighty Veteran Rank 16 armor sets.
So why gate PVE progression by items only obtainable by forced-PVPing?ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »First, we want to thank everyone for posting their feedback so far. As we mentioned on ESO Live last week, the new Tel Var Stone system is intended to be high risk, high reward, and will bring a lot of excitement to PvP. We encourage everyone to try it out on the PTS once it's available and let us know what you think! We'll be keeping a close eye on feedback, and will make adjustments if necessary without compromising the intent of the system.
What PVE progression is gated by IC?
You will be perfectly able to complete all PvE content without even touching IC PvP areas, just like you can today.
ZOS announcement page!Rewards that are unmatched in power await those who are brave enough to enter the Imperial City and claim them. Fight Molag Bal's personal guard, the elite Xivkyn, and other invaders from Coldharbour to win Tel Var Stones, the currency used to trade for mighty Veteran Rank 16 armor sets.
WIthout gear you can't play content, thus the content is GATED by the gear GATED by Stones which are forced-PVP only, unless you want to be held to ransom by price-gouging PVP gankers.
Q.E.D.
So why gate PVE progression by items only obtainable by forced-PVPing?ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »First, we want to thank everyone for posting their feedback so far. As we mentioned on ESO Live last week, the new Tel Var Stone system is intended to be high risk, high reward, and will bring a lot of excitement to PvP. We encourage everyone to try it out on the PTS once it's available and let us know what you think! We'll be keeping a close eye on feedback, and will make adjustments if necessary without compromising the intent of the system.
So why gate PVE progression by items only obtainable by forced-PVPing?ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »First, we want to thank everyone for posting their feedback so far. As we mentioned on ESO Live last week, the new Tel Var Stone system is intended to be high risk, high reward, and will bring a lot of excitement to PvP. We encourage everyone to try it out on the PTS once it's available and let us know what you think! We'll be keeping a close eye on feedback, and will make adjustments if necessary without compromising the intent of the system.
What PVE progression is gated by IC?
You will be perfectly able to complete all PvE content without even touching IC PvP areas, just like you can today.
ZOS announcement page!Rewards that are unmatched in power await those who are brave enough to enter the Imperial City and claim them. Fight Molag Bal's personal guard, the elite Xivkyn, and other invaders from Coldharbour to win Tel Var Stones, the currency used to trade for mighty Veteran Rank 16 armor sets.
WIthout gear you can't play content, thus the content is GATED by the gear GATED by Stones which are forced-PVP only, unless you want to be held to ransom by price-gouging PVP gankers.
Q.E.D.
LOL, so VR16 gear isn't needed till you finish VR16 content?So why gate PVE progression by items only obtainable by forced-PVPing?ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »First, we want to thank everyone for posting their feedback so far. As we mentioned on ESO Live last week, the new Tel Var Stone system is intended to be high risk, high reward, and will bring a lot of excitement to PvP. We encourage everyone to try it out on the PTS once it's available and let us know what you think! We'll be keeping a close eye on feedback, and will make adjustments if necessary without compromising the intent of the system.
What PVE progression is gated by IC?
You will be perfectly able to complete all PvE content without even touching IC PvP areas, just like you can today.
ZOS announcement page!Rewards that are unmatched in power await those who are brave enough to enter the Imperial City and claim them. Fight Molag Bal's personal guard, the elite Xivkyn, and other invaders from Coldharbour to win Tel Var Stones, the currency used to trade for mighty Veteran Rank 16 armor sets.
WIthout gear you can't play content, thus the content is GATED by the gear GATED by Stones which are forced-PVP only, unless you want to be held to ransom by price-gouging PVP gankers.
Q.E.D.
Hardly QED.
I asked you what content will be gated by the new gear. The answer is none. Because there is no PvE content that would require higher gear than VR14 before you can complete it.
So why gate PVE progression by items only obtainable by forced-PVPing?ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »First, we want to thank everyone for posting their feedback so far. As we mentioned on ESO Live last week, the new Tel Var Stone system is intended to be high risk, high reward, and will bring a lot of excitement to PvP. We encourage everyone to try it out on the PTS once it's available and let us know what you think! We'll be keeping a close eye on feedback, and will make adjustments if necessary without compromising the intent of the system.
What PVE progression is gated by IC?
You will be perfectly able to complete all PvE content without even touching IC PvP areas, just like you can today.
ZOS announcement page!Rewards that are unmatched in power await those who are brave enough to enter the Imperial City and claim them. Fight Molag Bal's personal guard, the elite Xivkyn, and other invaders from Coldharbour to win Tel Var Stones, the currency used to trade for mighty Veteran Rank 16 armor sets.
WIthout gear you can't play content, thus the content is GATED by the gear GATED by Stones which are forced-PVP only, unless you want to be held to ransom by price-gouging PVP gankers.
Q.E.D.
So why gate PVE progression by items only obtainable by forced-PVPing?ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »First, we want to thank everyone for posting their feedback so far. As we mentioned on ESO Live last week, the new Tel Var Stone system is intended to be high risk, high reward, and will bring a lot of excitement to PvP. We encourage everyone to try it out on the PTS once it's available and let us know what you think! We'll be keeping a close eye on feedback, and will make adjustments if necessary without compromising the intent of the system.