Everything you feared about stones is true... from their live broadcast...

Emma_Overload

J2JMC wrote: »

I'm still waiting for a counter argument to the undaunted sets question. It seems this one is continually ignored. ZOS stated this is PVP focused content. PVE players believe they shouldn't have to pvp to get gear. The question: Why is it ok to force pve onto pvp players for undaunted sets? Someone answer it. I'm curious.

Here's MY answer: NO, it's not OK to force PVE onto PVP players, and I've never understood why PVPers think we want this, either. The same Bind-on-Pickup mechanic on elite PVE gear that screws over PVPers ALSO screws over solo PVEers like me who have no way to get Trial or Undaunted sets because we can't buy or grind for them.

Lava_Croft

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

J2JMC wrote: »

I'm still waiting for a counter argument to the undaunted sets question. It seems this one is continually ignored. ZOS stated this is PVP focused content. PVE players believe they shouldn't have to pvp to get gear. The question: Why is it ok to force pve onto pvp players for undaunted sets? Someone answer it. I'm curious.

Here's MY answer: NO, it's not OK to force PVE onto PVP players, and I've never understood why PVPers think we want this, either. The same Bind-on-Pickup mechanic on elite PVE gear that screws over PVPers ALSO screws over solo PVEers like me who have no way to get Trial or Undaunted sets because we can't buy or grind for them.

I think you'd have trouble finding someone who does indeed like the whole Bind on Pickup crap. It's probably one of the most disliked features of ESO.

Vahrokh

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.

I must confess you at ZOS are going a way very which is very hard to understand for an end user.
I play online games since when they were text based and "network" meant "analog modem"...
... in all this time I have never seen a multiplayer game where:

1) (Before IC) Levelling up content just stops at about 3 levels below levels cap and then the player is left with no level up content.

2) PvE raid instances dropping deconstruct-worth gear whereas best in slot stuff drops in PvP.

3) PvP rebalances continuosly adversely affecting PvE gameplay. Just because SWTOR does it does not mean it's a good idea to duplicate.

4) Adding an "Imperial City is meant for the PvP player" however that's where the best PvE gear is going to be achieved (again).

5) It's a PvP espansion but level cap is going to be raised (typically a PvE oriented operation).

It's confusing to say the least, irritating could be a better term.


Also, to all those claiming "just wait for Orsinium", it's like exclusively putting high heels shoes in a shop and saying men with broken shoes: "wear these shoes or, if you want shoes for men, just come back in a year".

1) Before IC levelling was all about PVE and PVP was not a good way to do it.

2) You wear what you want to wear, if you want a form build you have a point but my 5 pcs warlock vr12 dont come from PVP and even the skoria or the dwemer undaunted dont come from PVP.

3) Mobs dont come in the forums claiming that a skill is umbalanced

4) Not evryone do exclusevly PVE or PVP most of the comunity does a bit of both

5) I want moaaaaar power and atm i consider the vr ranks an itemization sistem not levelling

1) My guild has got a number of emperors and they complain they levelled up too fast. I think they "played the system" but there you have it: it's not a 100% agreement on that.

Ah, guess how and where I have levelled from VR11 to VR14? In Cyrodil.

2) No, I can't wear what I want to wear. After earning my full Aether set and improving all of it to legendary quality, ZOS changed all the gameplay attributes but did not change PvE sets to match. In one day, 800k worth of gear went straight to the trash bin.

3) Mobs don't. PvPers do. Who nerfed my class multiple times in a row throughout the years? Who cried RIVERS about teleport? It was not mobs.

4) IC is going to be different. Promoting smaller scale, individual skill and builds become relevant. The guys who until yesterday tagged along the zerg and survived despite PvE build and gear, will now be a drag to their companions.
However there's no provision to do something so OBVIOUS like giving players a PvP and PvE build (when they enter Cyrodil the PvP builds switches on, when they leave the PvE build takes control).

5) It's a vertical level up, including giving selectable stats to raise (like someone would expect when he levels up in a RPG game). Paint it as you want, it's still leveling up.

Emma_Overload

reapthetempestrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Freeman wrote: »

SOOO much whining and complaining.... it's ridiculous.

Why won't anyone actually read this?: http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2015/07/17/the-imperial-city-guide-the-basics

You can still easily get V16 weapons and armor by just running the IC dungeons. No pvp required. And guess what? You can get the materials to craft V16 armor from deconstructing V16 items! Not that hard to understand. You don't NEED the stones to get V16 gear. My god. The stones are just *another* way to get V16 gear and mats.

You zone into the sewers in a SAFE zone, then you can take the ladders to any of the districts. Who knows if any of the districts won't have pvp as a possibility, but just go discover the dungeon and form/queue for a group outside of Cyrodiil.... and once you leave IC through the dungeons you're teleported to your alliance's capital city, so no threat to losing your precious stones you earned in there, just go deposit them in your bank.

Really people. Stop complaining. There are plenty of ways for you to safeguard your stones. Just be intelligent about it.

Those are group dungeons, though. It remains to be seen if they can be soloed. Also, if history is any guide, you will probably only be able to get good loot from the Veteran versions of the dungeons.

Why would you want VR16 gear in the first place if you're not veteran rank and can run vet dungeons?

Well, I'm VR14 now, I'm sure I'll hit VR16 within a week of the IC launch. What I was alluding to was the fact that desirable Vet level gear (e.g. Adroitness set) ONLY drops from Veteran versions of the instanced dungeons. Even at VR14, I can run the Normal version of Crypt of Hearts all day long, but the bosses will NEVER drop Adroitness or any thing else good.

It's going to be very upsetting if this unfair, solo-unfriendly mechanic is repeated in the Imperial City.

Tonnopesce

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

J2JMC wrote: »

I'm still waiting for a counter argument to the undaunted sets question. It seems this one is continually ignored. ZOS stated this is PVP focused content. PVE players believe they shouldn't have to pvp to get gear. The question: Why is it ok to force pve onto pvp players for undaunted sets? Someone answer it. I'm curious.

Here's MY answer: NO, it's not OK to force PVE onto PVP players, and I've never understood why PVPers think we want this, either. The same Bind-on-Pickup mechanic on elite PVE gear that screws over PVPers ALSO screws over solo PVEers like me who have no way to get Trial or Undaunted sets because we can't buy or grind for them.

Is not ok even force PVP players to do PVE in oorder to be competitive (CP) or just to level but eso is set up this way. And many of us (players) enjoy the game has it is, a little bit of both.
If you want pure pvp go play a moba if you want pure pve go play thw witcher leave this game be.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

J2JMC wrote: »

I'm still waiting for a counter argument to the undaunted sets question. It seems this one is continually ignored. ZOS stated this is PVP focused content. PVE players believe they shouldn't have to pvp to get gear. The question: Why is it ok to force pve onto pvp players for undaunted sets? Someone answer it. I'm curious.

Here's MY answer: NO, it's not OK to force PVE onto PVP players, and I've never understood why PVPers think we want this, either. The same Bind-on-Pickup mechanic on elite PVE gear that screws over PVPers ALSO screws over solo PVEers like me who have no way to get Trial or Undaunted sets because we can't buy or grind for them.

Is not ok even force PVP players to do PVE in oorder to be competitive (CP) or just to level but eso is set up this way. And many of us (players) enjoy the game has it is, a little bit of both.
If you want pure pvp go play a moba if you want pure pve go play thw witcher leave this game be.

Witcher is a single player game. You know that right? I just find it hilarious you guys insist you cannot pvp unless you are allowed to loot other players stuff. Since when is gankfest player looting the core of this game?

Rylana

Psychobunni wrote: »

MCMancub wrote: »

I will never understand this community.

1. Community complains the game is too easy and there's no punishment for dying.
2. ZOS implements Tel Var stones.
3. Community gets upset because there is now punishment for dying...in PvP.

*throws arms in the air and storms off*

Content starved WHOLE community, ZOS adds content for "all" to the side of the game the least amount of players play. Not that hard to grasp why people are upset.

There would be O complaint from PVE'ers if the new gear they were asked to achieve were given to them in a PVE manner. How long have we seen complaints about PVP'ers forced to PVE? (how long has the game been out?) PVE'ers have a year+ of complaining to catch up to

Citation on the bolded part required.

Seriously, the PvP community (people who at least PvP occasionally or more) is probably twice the size of the PvE community (people who never PvP) in this game.

Fya0713

I've heard that apparently ZOS has ALREADY lowered the PvP-kill loot from 100% of your stones to 10%........seriously? PLEASE tell me that this is completely fabricated. This is for PvP-ers. Not people who mabye want to PvP occasionally. If you are seriously that upset about possibly losing something significant when you die, get out of PvP. MMORPG's NEED a mechanic like this. There is absolutely NO consequence for dying in PvP at the moment. This is going to give some real LIFE to the PvP world. There will be a real reason to not just run in an AoE bomb, or run in and try to 1-shot people and die immediately. You will need to be able to kill AND survive, or you'll lose all of your stones. If you don't like this 100% player loot rate because you're afraid of losing your stones, don't come into the Imperial City. Stay out in Cyrodiil and practice until you're no longer THAT terrible, and THEN come into the Imperial City. I know ZOS just loves to cater to casuals (aka not-so-good players), but this care-bear policy that ZOS has had for a while now is getting REALLY old. In a video game, bad players die, and skilled players kill them. This will never change. So please STOP trying to make the game so hard for us good players, and please STOP trying to hold these "casual" players' hands through the game. They're not going to NOT die just because you reduce the player loot rate from 100% stones to 10% stones. That just removes something that the entire community was SO EXCITED about all because some players are scared. Please don't ruin this update for us. Keep it EXACTLY the way you described it in ESO Live. There is literally NOTHING WRONG with it.

Rinmaethodain

Fya0713 wrote: »

I've heard that apparently ZOS has ALREADY lowered the PvP-kill loot from 100% of your stones to 10%........seriously? PLEASE tell me that this is completely fabricated. This is for PvP-ers. Not people who mabye want to PvP occasionally. If you are seriously that upset about possibly losing something significant when you die, get out of PvP. MMORPG's NEED a mechanic like this. There is absolutely NO consequence for dying in PvP at the moment. This is going to give some real LIFE to the PvP world. There will be a real reason to not just run in an AoE bomb, or run in and try to 1-shot people and die immediately. You will need to be able to kill AND survive, or you'll lose all of your stones. If you don't like this 100% player loot rate because you're afraid of losing your stones, don't come into the Imperial City. Stay out in Cyrodiil and practice until you're no longer THAT terrible, and THEN come into the Imperial City. I know ZOS just loves to cater to casuals (aka not-so-good players), but this care-bear policy that ZOS has had for a while now is getting REALLY old. In a video game, bad players die, and skilled players kill them. This will never change. So please STOP trying to make the game so hard for us good players, and please STOP trying to hold these "casual" players' hands through the game. They're not going to NOT die just because you reduce the player loot rate from 100% stones to 10% stones. That just removes something that the entire community was SO EXCITED about all because some players are scared. Please don't ruin this update for us. Keep it EXACTLY the way you described it in ESO Live. There is literally NOTHING WRONG with it.

Loled at the "Skilled players kill them" HAHAHA

Torbschka

awesome, cant understand the guys complaining here, better get all stones instant, all new gear in 1 week and being done for the next 4 months lol.

Robotmafia

Kloud wrote: »

I can't wait sounds like a alot of fun to me

right thoo

I mean half of an mmo is pvp... nice to see pvp getin love

Emma_Overload

Fya0713 wrote: »

I've heard that apparently ZOS has ALREADY lowered the PvP-kill loot from 100% of your stones to 10%........seriously? PLEASE tell me that this is completely fabricated. This is for PvP-ers. Not people who mabye want to PvP occasionally. If you are seriously that upset about possibly losing something significant when you die, get out of PvP. MMORPG's NEED a mechanic like this. There is absolutely NO consequence for dying in PvP at the moment. This is going to give some real LIFE to the PvP world. There will be a real reason to not just run in an AoE bomb, or run in and try to 1-shot people and die immediately. You will need to be able to kill AND survive, or you'll lose all of your stones. If you don't like this 100% player loot rate because you're afraid of losing your stones, don't come into the Imperial City. Stay out in Cyrodiil and practice until you're no longer THAT terrible, and THEN come into the Imperial City. I know ZOS just loves to cater to casuals (aka not-so-good players), but this care-bear policy that ZOS has had for a while now is getting REALLY old. In a video game, bad players die, and skilled players kill them. This will never change. So please STOP trying to make the game so hard for us good players, and please STOP trying to hold these "casual" players' hands through the game. They're not going to NOT die just because you reduce the player loot rate from 100% stones to 10% stones. That just removes something that the entire community was SO EXCITED about all because some players are scared. Please don't ruin this update for us. Keep it EXACTLY the way you described it in ESO Live. There is literally NOTHING WRONG with it.

You don't call riding your Horse Simulator for 5 or 10 minutes a consequence for dying? Because that's what happens to me every time I try PvP and get killed.... over and over and over.

Nobody is complaining about the dying part, anyway, it's the LOOTING part that has PVEers in an uproar. You are completely blind if you can't see that.

Syntse

Fya0713 wrote: »

I've heard that apparently ZOS has ALREADY lowered the PvP-kill loot from 100% of your stones to 10%........seriously? PLEASE tell me that this is completely fabricated. This is for PvP-ers. Not people who mabye want to PvP occasionally. If you are seriously that upset about possibly losing something significant when you die, get out of PvP. MMORPG's NEED a mechanic like this.

To my knowledge die to player lose 100%, die to monster lose 10%. Maybe you have mixed up.

Iluvrien

reapthetempestrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Freeman wrote: »

SOOO much whining and complaining.... it's ridiculous.

Why won't anyone actually read this?: http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2015/07/17/the-imperial-city-guide-the-basics

You can still easily get V16 weapons and armor by just running the IC dungeons. No pvp required. And guess what? You can get the materials to craft V16 armor from deconstructing V16 items! Not that hard to understand. You don't NEED the stones to get V16 gear. My god. The stones are just *another* way to get V16 gear and mats.

You zone into the sewers in a SAFE zone, then you can take the ladders to any of the districts. Who knows if any of the districts won't have pvp as a possibility, but just go discover the dungeon and form/queue for a group outside of Cyrodiil.... and once you leave IC through the dungeons you're teleported to your alliance's capital city, so no threat to losing your precious stones you earned in there, just go deposit them in your bank.

Really people. Stop complaining. There are plenty of ways for you to safeguard your stones. Just be intelligent about it.

Those are group dungeons, though. It remains to be seen if they can be soloed. Also, if history is any guide, you will probably only be able to get good loot from the Veteran versions of the dungeons.

Why would you want VR16 gear in the first place if you're not veteran rank and can run vet dungeons?

1) So we can craft for the people that are, and thus make some money and supply that market.

2) You can be vet rank and not be able to run vet dungeons. The guild I used for grouping is fallen, until we are able to rebuild it I am left with PUG'ing as the major avenue of Dungeon running... and it will be a cold day in hell when I PUG in this game again after the last few experiences I had with it.

How's that for 2 reasons?

Titansteele

Fya0713 wrote: »

That just removes something that the entire community was SO EXCITED about all because some players are scared.

How can the "entire community" be so excited about it if some of it is "scared"? The community is clearly split on the topic.

Emma_Overload

Rylana wrote: »

Psychobunni wrote: »

MCMancub wrote: »

I will never understand this community.

1. Community complains the game is too easy and there's no punishment for dying.
2. ZOS implements Tel Var stones.
3. Community gets upset because there is now punishment for dying...in PvP.

*throws arms in the air and storms off*

Content starved WHOLE community, ZOS adds content for "all" to the side of the game the least amount of players play. Not that hard to grasp why people are upset.

There would be O complaint from PVE'ers if the new gear they were asked to achieve were given to them in a PVE manner. How long have we seen complaints about PVP'ers forced to PVE? (how long has the game been out?) PVE'ers have a year+ of complaining to catch up to

Citation on the bolded part required.

Seriously, the PvP community (people who at least PvP occasionally or more) is probably twice the size of the PvE community (people who never PvP) in this game.

Seriously, I doubt that. I DO think that a much higher proportion of PvP players post on the forums, because they're always begging for nerfs and re-balancing every time they get killed or a Sorc bolts away from them. I played PvE for more than half a year before I even made my first post on the forum. You know why I finally did? Because it became apparent that all the horrible nerfs PvPers demanded were RUINING this game that I loved.

If ZoS actually goes forward with this foolish corpse-looting scheme, I predict you will see even more PvEers take to the forums to complain. MANY more.

I_killed_Vivec

Iluvrien wrote: »

reapthetempestrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Freeman wrote: »

SOOO much whining and complaining.... it's ridiculous.

Why won't anyone actually read this?: http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2015/07/17/the-imperial-city-guide-the-basics

You can still easily get V16 weapons and armor by just running the IC dungeons. No pvp required. And guess what? You can get the materials to craft V16 armor from deconstructing V16 items! Not that hard to understand. You don't NEED the stones to get V16 gear. My god. The stones are just *another* way to get V16 gear and mats.

You zone into the sewers in a SAFE zone, then you can take the ladders to any of the districts. Who knows if any of the districts won't have pvp as a possibility, but just go discover the dungeon and form/queue for a group outside of Cyrodiil.... and once you leave IC through the dungeons you're teleported to your alliance's capital city, so no threat to losing your precious stones you earned in there, just go deposit them in your bank.

Really people. Stop complaining. There are plenty of ways for you to safeguard your stones. Just be intelligent about it.

Those are group dungeons, though. It remains to be seen if they can be soloed. Also, if history is any guide, you will probably only be able to get good loot from the Veteran versions of the dungeons.

Why would you want VR16 gear in the first place if you're not veteran rank and can run vet dungeons?

1) So we can craft for the people that are, and thus make some money and supply that market.

2) You can be vet rank and not be able to run vet dungeons. The guild I used for grouping is fallen, until we are able to rebuild it I am left with PUG'ing as the major avenue of Dungeon running... and it will be a cold day in hell when I PUG in this game again after the last few experiences I had with it.

How's that for 2 reasons?

And a third reason...

Just by doing what I do I will reach VR16 - possibly quite quickly as they appear to be reducing the XP requirements. So there I'll be, VR16 but unable to craft VR16 gear unless I buy DLC.

If I hesitate to buy the DLC the stone looters will probably be already wearing VR16 gear, further increasing the gap... to be "competitive" I'll have to be in from the start.

The idea that I'll be able to purchase materials is anathema to me - I harvest my own, I refine my own, I craft my own gear. To put materials behind a pay gate seems plain wrong.

As for the QQ from PvEers... just imagine the fuss from PvPers if Orsinium comes out with a further VR increase and materials locked behind another pay gate... "we have to buy PvE we don't want just to be competitive in PvP!".

helediron

AssaultLemming wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

But as a PvP player I have severe doubts about this one single mechanic - that being hit by a single kill removes everything you may have done since entering the zone and rewards someone for scoring one single kill when they may have not one single thing I can loot when I turn the tables on them.

Like @ZOS_BrianWheeler mentioned yesterday on ESO Live - we'll be watching PTS closely, tracking the data and feedback. We'll test out a couple of different loss percentages and see what strikes the right balance.

The right balance is losing ZERO of your stones to players. If the PVP people want stones let them do like everyone else and EARN them instead of stealing them. You guys want this to sell right? As it is you arent going to sell very many of these and when the people who dont use the forums figure out what you have done there will be an uproar like you have never seen.

Just bewilders me why you guys dont learn from the history of other games that player looting is a huge no-no. I guess you will be forced to learn the hard way. When you lose even more of the players one of these days you guys will start listening to us.

It's cute that you think the world evenly divides into PvE players and PvP players. Really most people fall somewhere along a spectrum with plenty of people happy to do both types of content. I'm really looking forward to a mix of killing mobs for stones, defending my stones from other players, and hunting players for their stones. I'm hoping they come down around the 25% Mark for stone looting, 10% seems too low, 100% way too high.

For someone like myself who enjoys both PvE and PvP content this expansion looks great. My advice to the rest of you is broaden your horizons or be disappointed often.

To me the 10% seems right. If higher the sewers will be trains zerging there until all PvE players force ZOS to remove the whole feature. Trains will be there because then it's for them full reward with zero risk. With 10% the risk for PvE players is low enough to stay there permanently and that keep the place lively. Trains need to work really hard to get loot and there will be more time to develop strategies against them.

Tonnopesce

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

J2JMC wrote: »

I'm still waiting for a counter argument to the undaunted sets question. It seems this one is continually ignored. ZOS stated this is PVP focused content. PVE players believe they shouldn't have to pvp to get gear. The question: Why is it ok to force pve onto pvp players for undaunted sets? Someone answer it. I'm curious.

Here's MY answer: NO, it's not OK to force PVE onto PVP players, and I've never understood why PVPers think we want this, either. The same Bind-on-Pickup mechanic on elite PVE gear that screws over PVPers ALSO screws over solo PVEers like me who have no way to get Trial or Undaunted sets because we can't buy or grind for them.

Is not ok even force PVP players to do PVE in oorder to be competitive (CP) or just to level but eso is set up this way. And many of us (players) enjoy the game has it is, a little bit of both.
If you want pure pvp go play a moba if you want pure pve go play thw witcher leave this game be.

Witcher is a single player game. You know that right? I just find it hilarious you guys insist you cannot pvp unless you are allowed to loot other players stuff. Since when is gankfest player looting the core of this game?

What is the difference? Most of the people here want to play Skyrim with people around, where you can save all your stuff and don't have consequences for death.

We can pvp without it but many of us find exciting this tipe of mechanic.

Is the same as when they have removed the FC the main complaint was that the game will become a "horse ride simulator" ,
Well from my pov due to the consequences that when you die you have to ride all over tru the battle, all the PVP'rs got scared from death and evryone has improved a little bit.
This mecanich will be the same as the FC in outer cyrodill , evryone will be more cautious and it will be more fun, because evry single encounter will become a real battle where you fight for something.

DDuke

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

J2JMC wrote: »

I'm still waiting for a counter argument to the undaunted sets question. It seems this one is continually ignored. ZOS stated this is PVP focused content. PVE players believe they shouldn't have to pvp to get gear. The question: Why is it ok to force pve onto pvp players for undaunted sets? Someone answer it. I'm curious.

Here's MY answer: NO, it's not OK to force PVE onto PVP players, and I've never understood why PVPers think we want this, either. The same Bind-on-Pickup mechanic on elite PVE gear that screws over PVPers ALSO screws over solo PVEers like me who have no way to get Trial or Undaunted sets because we can't buy or grind for them.

I think you'd have trouble finding someone who does indeed like the whole Bind on Pickup crap. It's probably one of the most disliked features of ESO.

Off Topic:
I like it, and realize its necessity.

Without BoP mechanism, game would be literally over after reaching max level since you'd just be able to buy everything.
No reason to run trials, no reason to run vet dungeons, no reason to ever even enter Imperial City.

Sharee

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

You don't call riding your Horse Simulator for 5 or 10 minutes a consequence for dying? Because that's what happens to me every time I try PvP and get killed.... over and over and over

The riding time between fort warden and fort glademist is under 30 seconds. If i was to ride for 10 minutes, i could cross from one corner of cyrodiil to the opposite corner, detour around IC included.

Septimus_Magna

I think most people forget that they have a lot of control about the amount of risk they take.

First of all, there will be a lot of friendly players at the starting point of your alliances' sewer exit. This will be a fairly safe place because you have friendly players who help you fight enemies and keep you alive. The further you go away from your starting point the higher risk you take but you also have a change to get higher rewards if you kill mobs/players with less players, more Tel Var stones per person who joined the fight. If you dont want to risk losing your Tel Var stones stay near your alliances' entrance, kill mobs and return to the bank every 30-60 minutes. I highly doubt you would be losing any stones if you manage to stay alive when you fight mobs.

Second, you can make a build for survival. You can go full glass canon which is common in PVE but that will make it very hard hard to survive against real players, especially if they are seasoned PVPers. You can use a more defensive build if you dont want to lose your stones, this might not be optimal for PVE but remember that you'll need to find the middle ground for the content in IC because its a mix of PVE and PVP.

Third, you can choose roam solo or join a small/large group. If you join a group you'll have a bigger change to survive but you'll be rewarded with less stones when you kill players/mobs, so low risk and low reward. If you roam solo or in a small group its high risk and high reward. The most important fact is that the players have a lot of control how much risk they take. If you're not confident in PVP dont go alone or in a small group, group up and play it safe until you're more experienced in PVP.

Forth, if you dont want to fight real players go to the server thats dominated by your alliance. The chance of the enemy factions getting all their home keeps is a lot smaller which means you wont meet players until they do. I think this will be the case in the first couple weeks because everyone wants to explore IC, after a while its gets more interesting because you can actually go to a buff campaign take the home keeps and seek the fight inside IC.

I understand many PVE players are fearing the seasoned PVP players but you control the amount of risk you take for the most part. Also it would be smart for the PVE players to learn the Alliance War ranks so when you fight someone with a high rank you know you need to be more careful.

DDuke

newtinmpls wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

It is science, and not my fault if you can't understand it.

Please read the link I provided, which should explain why you actually can determine the real public opinion with only few hundred votes. As more votes are gathered, the margin of error shrinks

Where is the bias?

Feel free to start your own unbiased poll, I can say with 99% certainty that it'll show the same result +-8%.

I did snip some stuff from here.

I had to take enough statistics classes to get my degree that I can see what the problem is. Any sampling that takes place on the forums, is inherently non-random as it is a subset of a self-selected group (those players of ESO past and present who post on the forums).

IF you somehow had a master list of all players of ESO and used appropriate techniques to generate a random sample (which is not easy) and then contacted them, and enough of them who are currently playing answered to achieve a decent margin of error and you had phrased the questions appropriately to avoid bias......THEN

You might have something approaching a result. Not "an answer" because you never prove anything with appropriately used statistics. You either support or fail to support your hypothesis.

As of yet, I have not seen any research on your part that implies you have a truly random sample set, or that you formulated your questions to avoid bias.

It would be quite interesting if someone did this.

How is the poll non-random? Are only people that think in a certain way allowed access to the forums?
I would say this whole thread & QQ in it proves otherwise.

Think of the forums as "voting booth", except you don't have to step foot from your house to get to it.


The sample is random, as there's no one controlling how you are allowed to vote on that poll (or who is allowed to vote on it).
The person who made it (not me) even voted "no" on it. Still biased?

And no, you do not "prove" anything, but you can give it a 99% probability (which is pretty good odds I'd say).


Sorry, but you & @jamesharv2005ub17_ESO just seem the kind of people that would go into streets & riot when the person you voted for wasn't elected.

Tonnopesce

@ZOS_BrianWheeler



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuHfVn_cfHU

Rinmaethodain

DDuke wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

It is science, and not my fault if you can't understand it.

Please read the link I provided, which should explain why you actually can determine the real public opinion with only few hundred votes. As more votes are gathered, the margin of error shrinks

Where is the bias?

Feel free to start your own unbiased poll, I can say with 99% certainty that it'll show the same result +-8%.

I did snip some stuff from here.

I had to take enough statistics classes to get my degree that I can see what the problem is. Any sampling that takes place on the forums, is inherently non-random as it is a subset of a self-selected group (those players of ESO past and present who post on the forums).

IF you somehow had a master list of all players of ESO and used appropriate techniques to generate a random sample (which is not easy) and then contacted them, and enough of them who are currently playing answered to achieve a decent margin of error and you had phrased the questions appropriately to avoid bias......THEN

You might have something approaching a result. Not "an answer" because you never prove anything with appropriately used statistics. You either support or fail to support your hypothesis.

As of yet, I have not seen any research on your part that implies you have a truly random sample set, or that you formulated your questions to avoid bias.

It would be quite interesting if someone did this.

How is the poll non-random? Are only people that think in a certain way allowed access to the forums?
I would say this whole thread & QQ in it proves otherwise.

Think of the forums as "voting booth", except you don't have to step foot from your house to get to it.


The sample is random, as there's no one controlling how you are allowed to vote on that poll (or who is allowed to vote on it).
The person who made it (not me) even voted "no" on it. Still biased?

And no, you do not "prove" anything, but you can give it a 99% probability (which is pretty good odds I'd say).


Sorry, but you & @jamesharv2005ub17_ESO just seem the kind of people that would go into streets & riot when the person you voted for wasn't elected.

Only valid source of feedback would be to create an IN GAME pool/voting system with a pools/questions/surveys made by devs. This way EVERYONE could vote once per account about game features.

People are LAZY by nature and for some of them even something like registering on forums can be a big hassle (especially if they already lost their forum code. Yes you need special code to register on forums. Its sent to you when you make your ESO account for first time and if you dont have you need to contact customer support).

DDuke

MaximusDargus wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

It is science, and not my fault if you can't understand it.

Please read the link I provided, which should explain why you actually can determine the real public opinion with only few hundred votes. As more votes are gathered, the margin of error shrinks

Where is the bias?

Feel free to start your own unbiased poll, I can say with 99% certainty that it'll show the same result +-8%.

I did snip some stuff from here.

I had to take enough statistics classes to get my degree that I can see what the problem is. Any sampling that takes place on the forums, is inherently non-random as it is a subset of a self-selected group (those players of ESO past and present who post on the forums).

IF you somehow had a master list of all players of ESO and used appropriate techniques to generate a random sample (which is not easy) and then contacted them, and enough of them who are currently playing answered to achieve a decent margin of error and you had phrased the questions appropriately to avoid bias......THEN

You might have something approaching a result. Not "an answer" because you never prove anything with appropriately used statistics. You either support or fail to support your hypothesis.

As of yet, I have not seen any research on your part that implies you have a truly random sample set, or that you formulated your questions to avoid bias.

It would be quite interesting if someone did this.

How is the poll non-random? Are only people that think in a certain way allowed access to the forums?
I would say this whole thread & QQ in it proves otherwise.

Think of the forums as "voting booth", except you don't have to step foot from your house to get to it.


The sample is random, as there's no one controlling how you are allowed to vote on that poll (or who is allowed to vote on it).
The person who made it (not me) even voted "no" on it. Still biased?

And no, you do not "prove" anything, but you can give it a 99% probability (which is pretty good odds I'd say).


Sorry, but you & @jamesharv2005ub17_ESO just seem the kind of people that would go into streets & riot when the person you voted for wasn't elected.

Only valid source of feedback would be to create an IN GAME pool/voting system with a pools/questions/surveys made by devs. This way EVERYONE could vote once per account about game features.

People are LAZY by nature and for some of them even something like registering on forums can be a big hassle (especially if they already lost their forum code. Yes you need special code to register on forums. Its sent to you when you make your ESO account for first time and if you dont have you need to contact customer support).

Yes, people are lazy (or indifferent).

That's why for most of them, walking/driving to the closest voting booth is too much as well, and which is why we use things such as margin of error when predicting results & overall public opinion.


No rocket science, it's all fairly simple.

Rosveen

DDuke wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

It is science, and not my fault if you can't understand it.

Please read the link I provided, which should explain why you actually can determine the real public opinion with only few hundred votes. As more votes are gathered, the margin of error shrinks

Where is the bias?

Feel free to start your own unbiased poll, I can say with 99% certainty that it'll show the same result +-8%.

I did snip some stuff from here.

I had to take enough statistics classes to get my degree that I can see what the problem is. Any sampling that takes place on the forums, is inherently non-random as it is a subset of a self-selected group (those players of ESO past and present who post on the forums).

IF you somehow had a master list of all players of ESO and used appropriate techniques to generate a random sample (which is not easy) and then contacted them, and enough of them who are currently playing answered to achieve a decent margin of error and you had phrased the questions appropriately to avoid bias......THEN

You might have something approaching a result. Not "an answer" because you never prove anything with appropriately used statistics. You either support or fail to support your hypothesis.

As of yet, I have not seen any research on your part that implies you have a truly random sample set, or that you formulated your questions to avoid bias.

It would be quite interesting if someone did this.

How is the poll non-random? Are only people that think in a certain way allowed access to the forums?
I would say this whole thread & QQ in it proves otherwise.

Think of the forums as "voting booth", except you don't have to step foot from your house to get to it.


The sample is random, as there's no one controlling how you are allowed to vote on that poll (or who is allowed to vote on it).
The person who made it (not me) even voted "no" on it. Still biased?

And no, you do not "prove" anything, but you can give it a 99% probability (which is pretty good odds I'd say).


Sorry, but you & @jamesharv2005ub17_ESO just seem the kind of people that would go into streets & riot when the person you voted for wasn't elected.

Look, I can link Wikipedia too!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-selection_bias

sparafucilsarwb17_ESO

DDuke wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

J2JMC wrote: »

I'm still waiting for a counter argument to the undaunted sets question. It seems this one is continually ignored. ZOS stated this is PVP focused content. PVE players believe they shouldn't have to pvp to get gear. The question: Why is it ok to force pve onto pvp players for undaunted sets? Someone answer it. I'm curious.

Here's MY answer: NO, it's not OK to force PVE onto PVP players, and I've never understood why PVPers think we want this, either. The same Bind-on-Pickup mechanic on elite PVE gear that screws over PVPers ALSO screws over solo PVEers like me who have no way to get Trial or Undaunted sets because we can't buy or grind for them.

I think you'd have trouble finding someone who does indeed like the whole Bind on Pickup crap. It's probably one of the most disliked features of ESO.

Off Topic:
I like it, and realize its necessity.

Without BoP mechanism, game would be literally over after reaching max level since you'd just be able to buy everything.
No reason to run trials, no reason to run vet dungeons, no reason to ever even enter Imperial City.

Off topic also - I also like BOP for the same reason.

DDuke

Rosveen wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

It is science, and not my fault if you can't understand it.

Please read the link I provided, which should explain why you actually can determine the real public opinion with only few hundred votes. As more votes are gathered, the margin of error shrinks

Where is the bias?

Feel free to start your own unbiased poll, I can say with 99% certainty that it'll show the same result +-8%.

I did snip some stuff from here.

I had to take enough statistics classes to get my degree that I can see what the problem is. Any sampling that takes place on the forums, is inherently non-random as it is a subset of a self-selected group (those players of ESO past and present who post on the forums).

IF you somehow had a master list of all players of ESO and used appropriate techniques to generate a random sample (which is not easy) and then contacted them, and enough of them who are currently playing answered to achieve a decent margin of error and you had phrased the questions appropriately to avoid bias......THEN

You might have something approaching a result. Not "an answer" because you never prove anything with appropriately used statistics. You either support or fail to support your hypothesis.

As of yet, I have not seen any research on your part that implies you have a truly random sample set, or that you formulated your questions to avoid bias.

It would be quite interesting if someone did this.

How is the poll non-random? Are only people that think in a certain way allowed access to the forums?
I would say this whole thread & QQ in it proves otherwise.

Think of the forums as "voting booth", except you don't have to step foot from your house to get to it.


The sample is random, as there's no one controlling how you are allowed to vote on that poll (or who is allowed to vote on it).
The person who made it (not me) even voted "no" on it. Still biased?

And no, you do not "prove" anything, but you can give it a 99% probability (which is pretty good odds I'd say).


Sorry, but you & @jamesharv2005ub17_ESO just seem the kind of people that would go into streets & riot when the person you voted for wasn't elected.

Look, I can link Wikipedia too!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-selection_bias

Well, that's a lousy wikipedia article and I could tell you a lot more about self-selection bias, but at the risk of going off topic let me answer to that: self-selection bias applies only when polled people do not represent the entire population.

E.g. only people from Asia are asked and/or interested in the question, or only people aged between 21-30 are asked and/or interested in the question.
^
The noteworthy difference between this & normal selection bias is that while everyone is asked the question, only a certain subgroup cares enough to answer it (or cares to even find the poll).

As far as I know, this forum is available and used by people from all over the world, by people of all ages, ethnic backgrounds & social environments.

Titansteele

I have watched the twitch thingy and read all the posts here.

It is clear that the risk of losing 100% of the stones upon a PVP death could be too much of a risk for some people to stomach (me included) but I do firmly believe that there should be a real consequence to death within the IC. Reading between the lines from the twitch episode the ZOS staff didnt sound overly convinced around the 100% figure either.

I would suggest that there is a compromise to be found in there and there is one options that I like.

I suggest that there is an opt in/out "danger mode". If you opt into the danger mode then nothing changes however if you opt out of it then 25% of all stone earnings are "safe" and you will never lose that potion of your earnings upon PVP death however you will not be able to use the multiplier system at all.
This hampers people`s earning potential severely obviously but that is the trade off, the bigger the risk, the bigger the reward.

For the record I play both PVE and PVP.