Everything you feared about stones is true... from their live broadcast...

WolffenBloodseeker

newtinmpls wrote: »

WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »

[ (besides PVP part of the justice system that probably was scraped because of all the cries in the forums)

I truly hope not. I was really rooting for being able to have duels in PvE cities with some sort of "throw/accept a gauntlet" mechanism.

And of course emotes for ladies bestowing their favors (I mean kerchiefs and the like - not anything inappropriate).

Yeah i truly hope not too, but you know ZOS, they said the PVP part of the justice system would be delayed until they could get it right (after all the cries on the forums from people who want to do EVERYTHING without ANY consequences, they want to steal and murder but NOT have a CHANCE that one can punish them, if it's a PVE guard there is no problem but a real human being? NOOO WAY! THAT's UNFAIR) and you know where this has gotten the foward camps and mercenary contracts in Cyrodiil lol

I was even recruiting players for a knightly order focused on the defense of covenant lands against thieves and murderers but had to scratch that when they announced the delay, i was even hoping they would bring some short of dueling after the justice PVP system

Mr_Bubbely

I like the sound of this gankfest you speak of, sounds like good times all around!

J2JMC

I'm still waiting for a counter argument to the undaunted sets question. It seems this one is continually ignored. ZOS stated this is PVP focused content. PVE players believe they shouldn't have to pvp to get gear. The question: Why is it ok to force pve onto pvp players for undaunted sets? Someone answer it. I'm curious.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

J2JMC wrote: »

I'm still waiting for a counter argument to the undaunted sets question. It seems this one is continually ignored. ZOS stated this is PVP focused content. PVE players believe they shouldn't have to pvp to get gear. The question: Why is it ok to force pve onto pvp players for undaunted sets? Someone answer it. I'm curious.

There should be options for both. You shouldnt have to kill players to get tokens. You should be able to kill players to earn tokens. Not take the ones from other people but you can still kill them all day long. Would be no different than how pvp has been from day one.

Instead people insist it isnt pvp unless you can gank newbs and loot them.

Soulshine

J2JMC wrote: »

I'm still waiting for a counter argument to the undaunted sets question. It seems this one is continually ignored. ZOS stated this is PVP focused content. PVE players believe they shouldn't have to pvp to get gear. The question: Why is it ok to force pve onto pvp players for undaunted sets? Someone answer it. I'm curious.

Well I am certainly not one to oppose earning things myself. I think reliance on others grinding things out and selling them is part of what always makes game economies tank anyway.

Regarding the Undaunted armors, I am not sure why as a PvP player you would want Undaunted gear sets to begin with? Seems there are certainly more viable options in the PvP sets for PvP play, which when combined with some crafted bonuses seem to make very strong builds. Many of the Undaunted bonuses are actually pretty meh even for PvE if you ask me; there are better sets from Trials, vDSA, and SO. The main reason to really be doing Undaunteds is to advance the skill line to get to the passive stat bonuses past level 7. This is what I think they should change - make sure there are comprable passives available to PvP players within the Assault and Support lines of Alliance skills, at which point Undaunted would be a non issue.

JMadFour

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.

There you have it.

If you don't do PVP, then you have no reason to buy Imperial City. It's not for you.

discussion should be over at this point, there is no need for you all to argue any further. Just save your money for Orsinium.

S1ipperyJim

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »

I don't mind getting my @ss kicked.

Having my lunch money taken is a little harder to swallow...

Its a war. People loot in wars. And do much worse things. If you're scared stay home in your shack and drink skuma with your pet guar.

S1ipperyJim

tengri wrote: »

You want to take my stones?
Not gonna happen - you can be sure if I come in danger of dying I'll destroy them myself before some filth gets his hand on them.
Hopefully there will be an addon for exactly this soon... destroy on keypress.

lol if you don't have time to react to stop yourself getting killed how are you going to have time to react to open your inventory and destroy all your TV stones, even if it allows you to do that in combat?

S1ipperyJim

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Freeman wrote: »

SOOO much whining and complaining.... it's ridiculous.

Why won't anyone actually read this?: http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2015/07/17/the-imperial-city-guide-the-basics

You can still easily get V16 weapons and armor by just running the IC dungeons. No pvp required. And guess what? You can get the materials to craft V16 armor from deconstructing V16 items! Not that hard to understand. You don't NEED the stones to get V16 gear. My god. The stones are just *another* way to get V16 gear and mats.

You zone into the sewers in a SAFE zone, then you can take the ladders to any of the districts. Who knows if any of the districts won't have pvp as a possibility, but just go discover the dungeon and form/queue for a group outside of Cyrodiil.... and once you leave IC through the dungeons you're teleported to your alliance's capital city, so no threat to losing your precious stones you earned in there, just go deposit them in your bank.

Really people. Stop complaining. There are plenty of ways for you to safeguard your stones. Just be intelligent about it.

Those are group dungeons, though. It remains to be seen if they can be soloed. Also, if history is any guide, you will probably only be able to get good loot from the Veteran versions of the dungeons.

Why would you want VR16 gear in the first place if you're not veteran rank and can run vet dungeons?

RazzPitazz

J2JMC wrote: »

I'm still waiting for a counter argument to the undaunted sets question. It seems this one is continually ignored. ZOS stated this is PVP focused content. PVE players believe they shouldn't have to pvp to get gear. The question: Why is it ok to force pve onto pvp players for undaunted sets? Someone answer it. I'm curious.

It's not, and I wish they had an equivalent accessible within PvP. However there is one major difference, being that IC gears are gated behind a pay wall. I'm not arguing against the pay wall, but it is a fundamental difference.

KerinKor

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

But as a PvP player I have severe doubts about this one single mechanic - that being hit by a single kill removes everything you may have done since entering the zone and rewards someone for scoring one single kill when they may have not one single thing I can loot when I turn the tables on them.

Like @ZOS_BrianWheeler mentioned yesterday on ESO Live - we'll be watching PTS closely, tracking the data and feedback. We'll test out a couple of different loss percentages and see what strikes the right balance.

@ZOS_RichLambert That sounds like a very positive approach and not what I had gathered (but I was watching while PvPing so...) - hopefully a middle ground that keeps both ends of the scale content will be found.

There is no 'middle ground', many people hate PVP and want nothing to do with it, thus they'll not take part in this PVPer-pandering feature and they'll simply stop playing and PAYING!

Tonnopesce

Vahrokh wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.

I must confess you at ZOS are going a way very which is very hard to understand for an end user.
I play online games since when they were text based and "network" meant "analog modem"...
... in all this time I have never seen a multiplayer game where:

1) (Before IC) Levelling up content just stops at about 3 levels below levels cap and then the player is left with no level up content.

2) PvE raid instances dropping deconstruct-worth gear whereas best in slot stuff drops in PvP.

3) PvP rebalances continuosly adversely affecting PvE gameplay. Just because SWTOR does it does not mean it's a good idea to duplicate.

4) Adding an "Imperial City is meant for the PvP player" however that's where the best PvE gear is going to be achieved (again).

5) It's a PvP espansion but level cap is going to be raised (typically a PvE oriented operation).

It's confusing to say the least, irritating could be a better term.


Also, to all those claiming "just wait for Orsinium", it's like exclusively putting high heels shoes in a shop and saying men with broken shoes: "wear these shoes or, if you want shoes for men, just come back in a year".

1) Before IC levelling was all about PVE and PVP was not a good way to do it.

2) You wear what you want to wear, if you want a form build you have a point but my 5 pcs warlock vr12 dont come from PVP and even the skoria or the dwemer undaunted dont come from PVP.

3) Mobs dont come in the forums claiming that a skill is umbalanced

4) Not evryone do exclusevly PVE or PVP most of the comunity does a bit of both

5) I want moaaaaar power and atm i consider the vr ranks an itemization sistem not levelling

GreenSoup2HoT

As a nightblade, i love this. Time to make bank like a true theif!

But let's get real here.

-People Farm Stone's
-Proceed to go to "Sewer door"
-Walk's into my group of 10 waiting to gank you
-Profit?

Better be more then 1 sewer entrance to get into your pve faction base w.e it was. If not, it will be gank central.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

For the 100th time the only problem I have seen ANYONE have with this DLC is the whole player looting thing. Remove that and they will sell easily 100 times as many copies as leaving it in. Not just that they wont have people who dont know about the whole player looting thing demanding a refund once they find out they are unable to earn stones because of player looting.

Tonnopesce

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

As a nightblade, i love this. Time to make bank like a true theif!

But let's get real here.

-People Farm Stone's
-Proceed to go to "Sewer door"
-Walk's into my group of 10 waiting to gank you
-Profit?

Better be more then 1 sewer entrance to get into your pve faction base w.e it was. If not, it will be gank central.

It is a little bit coward waiting for a 1 vs 10 and erease him , shame on you, you will become my pray since usually i gank, gankings squads

Annra

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player

No, Imperial City is only meant for some PVP players. As I said before I am a PvP player, but refuse to be looted from other players if I die. This expansion does not drives a wedge between PvE- and PvP-Players, but between different types of PvP-Players.

Lava_Croft

The amount of entitlement present in people who actually got content for their subscription money is simply amazing. Please give the PvP players a break and let them enjoy the content they were promised a year ago and which already cost them over a year of subscription money.

It's time for the PvP players to feel entitled now. *** off.

sparafucilsarwb17_ESO

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.

What a joke! Why then put pve content inside pvp and then claim it's only for pvp?!

AssaultLemming

Sharee wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

2. The secondary ganker who would currently probably come in and defend that player before he died has now instead waited for him to die and lose his stones simply so he can then take the stones from the guy who robbed him. So Alliance team work suffers too and hatred builds where people know damn well that you stood back and let them die simply so you could loot their stones second hand.

This is a good point, and something i noticed as well. I would certainly welcome some mechanic that would encourage a friendly player to defend you, rather than wait until you die before killing the attacker and thus gain not only his stones but yours as well. This is feedback stuff - let ZOS figure out how to handle it.

Hmmm, this is a good point which zos will certainly completely ignore. It's hard to see how such an incentive to defend the farmers would function so it will certainly go in the too hard basket.

At this stage you are quite right, better to let the farmer die and then jump his attacker when he's weakened from the battle and busy counting his stones!

AssaultLemming

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.

Then why increase the level cap to 16 and put all the new stuff in behind the pvp zone?

By doing that the DLC is no longer just a pvp expansion but an expansion to the entire game that everyone who want to stay competitive HAVE to take part in, while it has been designed by be griefers paradise.

Why do you have to take part in it? You can beat all the existing content at vr14 in your current gear, so just keep doing what you are doing and forget that it exists if you like. There will be new gear for you to buy and new dungeons to do, other than that it's business as usual for you, you can pick flowers and mushrooms to your heart's content.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

AssaultLemming wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.

Then why increase the level cap to 16 and put all the new stuff in behind the pvp zone?

By doing that the DLC is no longer just a pvp expansion but an expansion to the entire game that everyone who want to stay competitive HAVE to take part in, while it has been designed by be griefers paradise.

Why do you have to take part in it? You can beat all the existing content at vr14 in your current gear, so just keep doing what you are doing and forget that it exists if you like. There will be new gear for you to buy and new dungeons to do, other than that it's business as usual for you, you can pick flowers and mushrooms to your heart's content.

What we have been doing is waiting for a year now for some new zones. What we get is craglorn which is only for groups. vet dungeons DSA etc which again only for hardcore groups. Now IC which AGAIN is only for hardcore groups. So ya I have been through all the zones done all quests all achievemts except the hardcore stuff. I and many many like me are not going to pay them another dime until they start focusing on someone other than the hardcore player.

sparafucilsarwb17_ESO

I have two problems with this content really

1. TV Stones should not be loot-able from your corpse
2. The sets obtained from the stones should be bound on purchase/pickup. Yes you heard me right - if you don't do the work to earn these sets you should not have it and should not be able to buy it with gold - it should be like the undaunted ones. Otherwise there is no real sense of progression.

Lava_Croft

sparafucilsarwb17_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.

What a joke! Why then put pve content inside pvp and then claim it's only for pvp?!

Because adding a few PvE dungeons to a PvP focused piece of DLC might entice some PvE players to buy it. It's up to you to decide whether you think a few PvE dungeons is worth 2500 Crowns.

AssaultLemming

RustedValor wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

But as a PvP player I have severe doubts about this one single mechanic - that being hit by a single kill removes everything you may have done since entering the zone and rewards someone for scoring one single kill when they may have not one single thing I can loot when I turn the tables on them.

Like @ZOS_BrianWheeler mentioned yesterday on ESO Live - we'll be watching PTS closely, tracking the data and feedback. We'll test out a couple of different loss percentages and see what strikes the right balance.

You really need to scrap the entire loot system and replace it with a reward system instead. Give people a stone reward based on how many stones are on their victims but never let the victims lose any stones.

And then remove the stone multiplier system too since its there to make griefing even worse.

Problem is if they do this it will be easily exploited with friends killing eachother to double their stones thus flooding the market with stones making all of the gear easily obtained and making the stones worthless and not worth grinding in the first place. The fact that you lose the stones on death makes it only possible to trade stones through killing eachother, which isn't worth the risk since other players might also kill both players trying to trade. No matter what they will not get rid of the stones lossed upon death. They might reduce the percentage a little, but not enough to make losing them not be significant and painful. The entire design was based around players losing stones when getting killed by enemy players, which if you actually like to PvP is a fun mechanic and adds variety to a stale game.

Yes it's important to this style of economy that PvE is the basis for resources entering the world. In the same way that ore, wood, gold flowers etc are all obtained through PvE activities so too should the stones be. This limits the maximum rate at which stones can enter the world and so prevents rampant inflation. We already saw problems with people farming AP through intentional keep swapping, let's not have a repeat of that.

The eso PvE driven economy is already so flooded with raw materials as to make them basically worthless it will be good to see a new resource with a built in sink (stones for gear). It means the currency is more likely to retain its value over time.

AssaultLemming

Acrolas wrote: »

...but how many stones do you actually need? A few hundred? A few thousand? A million? Tens of millions?

If it's an obscenely large number, it's probably a bad system to begin with.
But as needed quantity decreases, there will eventually be a surplus. Then you're just giving people something they don't need from somebody who may need them.

Stones = gear = gold = potions + food

So to a certain extends even people with end game gear still have some use for stones

Vahrokh

Samadhi wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

...
Also, to all those claiming "just wait for Orsinium", it's like exclusively putting high heels shoes in a shop and saying men with broken shoes: "wear these shoes or, if you want shoes for men, just come back in a year".

Men can wear high heels, they may just find them painful.

Women are often expected to wear high heels, they have to learn to acclimatize and ignore the pain of them.

If the Men in your example are the PvE players waiting for new "male" shoes,
then are the Women left out of your example the PvP players that have had to just quietly suffer along with decreased and sub-par options?

Are you really saying that two wrongs do one right?

AssaultLemming

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

But as a PvP player I have severe doubts about this one single mechanic - that being hit by a single kill removes everything you may have done since entering the zone and rewards someone for scoring one single kill when they may have not one single thing I can loot when I turn the tables on them.

Like @ZOS_BrianWheeler mentioned yesterday on ESO Live - we'll be watching PTS closely, tracking the data and feedback. We'll test out a couple of different loss percentages and see what strikes the right balance.

The right balance is losing ZERO of your stones to players. If the PVP people want stones let them do like everyone else and EARN them instead of stealing them. You guys want this to sell right? As it is you arent going to sell very many of these and when the people who dont use the forums figure out what you have done there will be an uproar like you have never seen.

Just bewilders me why you guys dont learn from the history of other games that player looting is a huge no-no. I guess you will be forced to learn the hard way. When you lose even more of the players one of these days you guys will start listening to us.

It's cute that you think the world evenly divides into PvE players and PvP players. Really most people fall somewhere along a spectrum with plenty of people happy to do both types of content. I'm really looking forward to a mix of killing mobs for stones, defending my stones from other players, and hunting players for their stones. I'm hoping they come down around the 25% Mark for stone looting, 10% seems too low, 100% way too high.

For someone like myself who enjoys both PvE and PvP content this expansion looks great. My advice to the rest of you is broaden your horizons or be disappointed often.

Samadhi

Vahrokh wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

...
Also, to all those claiming "just wait for Orsinium", it's like exclusively putting high heels shoes in a shop and saying men with broken shoes: "wear these shoes or, if you want shoes for men, just come back in a year".

Men can wear high heels, they may just find them painful.

Women are often expected to wear high heels, they have to learn to acclimatize and ignore the pain of them.

If the Men in your example are the PvE players waiting for new "male" shoes,
then are the Women left out of your example the PvP players that have had to just quietly suffer along with decreased and sub-par options?

Are you really saying that two wrongs do one right?

Is that really your interpretation of my post?

Vahrokh

WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.

I must confess you at ZOS are going a way very which is very hard to understand for an end user.
I play online games since when they were text based and "network" meant "analog modem"...
... in all this time I have never seen a multiplayer game where:

1) (Before IC) Levelling up content just stops at about 3 levels below levels cap and then the player is left with no level up content.

2) PvE raid instances dropping deconstruct-worth gear whereas best in slot stuff drops in PvP.

3) PvP rebalances continuosly adversely affecting PvE gameplay. Just because SWTOR does it does not mean it's a good idea to duplicate.

4) Adding an "Imperial City is meant for the PvP player" however that's where the best PvE gear is going to be achieved (again).

5) It's a PvP espansion but level cap is going to be raised (typically a PvE oriented operation).

It's confusing to say the least, irritating could be a better term.


Also, to all those claiming "just wait for Orsinium", it's like exclusively putting high heels shoes in a shop and saying men with broken shoes: "wear these shoes or, if you want shoes for men, just come back in a year".

Most MMOs i played (actually all of them) in more than 10 years had no dedicated leveling content like eso at all, a few quests for a gear or two here and there in the entire game AND 463246324639824638946 mobs all around waiting for the players to kill and grind to their hearts content, rinse and repeat alone, in groups, in guilds until max level and until you finally get that best gear after 4384938473 tries, in comparison to this ESO is a welcome breath of fresh air in the MMO scene, yeah, the last 3 vet ranks have currently no content dedicated to leveling them, but it's easy as hell to get these ranks and will be even more now in update 7 with the xp increases and reduction of xp required in each vet level.

Just a few days ago, me, a casual pve/pvp player who was vet 11 leveled in 2 days of CASUAL play to vet 14 doing a few quests in crag with a group, undaunted pledges, some quests to get the achievements of Cyrodiil and a bit of pug and guild PVP.

Let the PVPlayers have their content, it's the only content we will get since the release of eso MORE THAN A YEAR AGO, while PVE got all the love until now, and this is the only future PVP content announced (besides PVP part of the justice system that probably was scraped because of all the cries in the forums) until now while ZOS already said to be working on the following PVE ZONES: Orsinium, Murkmire, Clockwork City, Abah's landing and Mephala's realm.

1) Nobody paid you to play Korean grinders for 10 years straight. I have played 2 and since then I refuse to torture myself further again.

2) "PvE got all the love", WHERE? 1 bugged, stinky region with group gated content nobody does anyway because killing ***2*** mobs in Bankorai / The Rift (with CP bonus) gives more XP than completing a 5-6 steps long Craglorn quest???

I have 30% of my guild who quit in Summer 2014 come back when ESO became TU and they could immediately play along everybody else, because since then nothing changed and they were perfectly "aligned" with the others.

If you want to be ANYWHERE close to fair, you have to say "both PvPers and PvEers are dramatically content starved, PvPers happen to have it even worse". You and many others are falling into the "let's make the poor fight against the poor" trap so commonly employed at all levels these days.

Last but not least, PvP's content is PvP itself. I've played EvE and Warhammer for years without them getting an ounce of update (any Factional Warfare player can attest this, CCP released FW and let it rot for years until recently). Warhammer fired their devs completely, so from 2008 to 2013 they had *1* update and that's it. 1 in 5 years.
Yet both of those games have been awesome to play, because PVPers don't need a "raid boss" or "new gear".
PvP "doctrines" change all the time, emperors too.
And so did game balance, several times, usually butchiering fully functional PvE builds.

3) They can talk about Orsinium and the fairy lands and the rainbow colored unicorns all day long, ZOS lost players trust, we don't even know if they still have a functional development team or not. The huge slowdown is worrysome to say the least.
Seeing is believing now. Announce Orsinium => believe when it'll appear on my map, not a second sooner.

Vahrokh

J2JMC wrote: »

I'm still waiting for a counter argument to the undaunted sets question. It seems this one is continually ignored. ZOS stated this is PVP focused content. PVE players believe they shouldn't have to pvp to get gear. The question: Why is it ok to force pve onto pvp players for undaunted sets? Someone answer it. I'm curious.

Two wrongs don't make one right.

Actually, ESO has more than two wrongs.

A game that claims to be AvA should behave like a proper AvA / RvR game and let players have *** 1 *** set and *** 1 *** spec to work everywhere. This would also dramatically help solve the unavoidable disparities in game balance that arise when you have to forcibly match PvE and PvP skills to have a fair PvP.