Everything you feared about stones is true... from their live broadcast...

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

But as a PvP player I have severe doubts about this one single mechanic - that being hit by a single kill removes everything you may have done since entering the zone and rewards someone for scoring one single kill when they may have not one single thing I can loot when I turn the tables on them.

Like @ZOS_BrianWheeler mentioned yesterday on ESO Live - we'll be watching PTS closely, tracking the data and feedback. We'll test out a couple of different loss percentages and see what strikes the right balance.

You really need to scrap the entire loot system and replace it with a reward system instead. Give people a stone reward based on how many stones are on their victims but never let the victims lose any stones.

And then remove the stone multiplier system too since its there to make griefing even worse.

pmn100b16_ESO

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.

Refreshing stance

RustedValor

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

But as a PvP player I have severe doubts about this one single mechanic - that being hit by a single kill removes everything you may have done since entering the zone and rewards someone for scoring one single kill when they may have not one single thing I can loot when I turn the tables on them.

Like @ZOS_BrianWheeler mentioned yesterday on ESO Live - we'll be watching PTS closely, tracking the data and feedback. We'll test out a couple of different loss percentages and see what strikes the right balance.

You really need to scrap the entire loot system and replace it with a reward system instead. Give people a stone reward based on how many stones are on their victims but never let the victims lose any stones.

And then remove the stone multiplier system too since its there to make griefing even worse.

Problem is if they do this it will be easily exploited with friends killing eachother to double their stones thus flooding the market with stones making all of the gear easily obtained and making the stones worthless and not worth grinding in the first place. The fact that you lose the stones on death makes it only possible to trade stones through killing eachother, which isn't worth the risk since other players might also kill both players trying to trade. No matter what they will not get rid of the stones lossed upon death. They might reduce the percentage a little, but not enough to make losing them not be significant and painful. The entire design was based around players losing stones when getting killed by enemy players, which if you actually like to PvP is a fun mechanic and adds variety to a stale game.

Tonnopesce

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.

BAM!!!


And here the complaint train ends!

Rinmaethodain

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.

BAM!!!


And here the complaint train ends!

Nope

Faulgor

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.

Then why increase the level cap to 16 and put all the new stuff in behind the pvp zone?

By doing that the DLC is no longer just a pvp expansion but an expansion to the entire game that everyone who want to stay competitive HAVE to take part in, while it has been designed by be griefers paradise.

You can get all new items without buying the DLC. Everything is tradeable, just buy it from other players.

Cathexis

I think the stone system would be great if the cp system didn't make the game outrageously imbalanced.

All I see: more pandering to characters who have everything at the expense of casuals.

Faulgor

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

But as a PvP player I have severe doubts about this one single mechanic - that being hit by a single kill removes everything you may have done since entering the zone and rewards someone for scoring one single kill when they may have not one single thing I can loot when I turn the tables on them.

Like @ZOS_BrianWheeler mentioned yesterday on ESO Live - we'll be watching PTS closely, tracking the data and feedback. We'll test out a couple of different loss percentages and see what strikes the right balance.

A good argument for high loss percentages I've heard is the multiplier system. If you only lose, say, 20% to players, there's not really any point to bring your stones into the bank, because if you do so you will lose the multiplier (2x/3x/4x) and greatly diminish your TV stone gain. This makes the whole multiplier mechanic and idea to get your stones to safety obsolete.

On the other hand, I don't think a 80% or 90% loss will appease the people who have a problem with the whole concept to begin with. Personally, 100% seems perfectly appropriate to me considering the rest of the system.

Tavore1138

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.

BAM!!!


And here the complaint train ends!

Only if that's what this thread was about - which it wasn't.

Double BAM!

TheBull

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.

Don't gut the system. This gives us something to play for.

FooWasHere

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.

If you would have added IC in all its glory I'm sure it would've been fine, a great and needed addition to the PVP-scape. And I agree it's only fair that Cyrodiil got the first DLC update.

But @ZOS_RichLambert , you seem to forget that it's not what you did. You increased the level cap as well. And added an entire new gear tier with unique crafting material--potions and enchants included. All exclusive to the IC.

So by increasing the level and gear cap for all, while adding content (practically) only to the PvP side, I think you can understand that many now feel that they are 'forced' into PvP or have to grind out 2 VR levels on old content with diminishing returns, due to the increasing VR difference (or run do those 2 new dungeons a lot of times...). In addition to this, most old PVE gear is now entirely obsolete (much was already obsolescent after 1.6), in addition to making previously self-sufficient crafters complete consumers.

So saying that "this is simply not for you" isn't really going to appeal to the people that are upset about it.

(Re-use of comment made on Elloa's youtube.)

DDuke

FooWasHere wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.

If you would have added IC in all its glory I'm sure it would've been fine, a great and needed addition to the PVP-scape. And I agree it's only fair that Cyrodiil got the first DLC update.

But @ZOS_RichLambert , you seem to forget that it's not what you did. You increased the level cap as well. And added an entire new gear tier with unique crafting material--potions and enchants included. All exclusive to the IC.

So by increasing the level and gear cap for all, while adding content (practically) only to the PvP side, I think you can understand that many now feel that they are 'forced' into PvP or have to grind out 2 VR levels on old content with diminishing returns, due to the increasing VR difference (or run do those 2 new dungeons a lot of times...). In addition to this, most old PVE gear is now entirely obsolete (much was already obsolescent after 1.6), in addition to making previously self-sufficient crafters complete consumers.

So saying that "this is simply not for you" isn't really going to appeal to the people that are upset about it.

(Re-use of comment made on Elloa's youtube.)

We don't even know how they have changed other gear sets in game (which have allegedly gone through a revamp).

Also, Imperial City DLC comes with two 100% PvE dungeons with their own item sets.

You do not have to participate in PvP, unless you want to.

You can probably still grind VR16 in two hours after patch launch by good ol' CWC.

Ashtaris

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.

That's great Rich and I agree that the PVP'ers deserve some love. But when is Orsinium going to be released? If you wanted to make the PVP'ers and PVE crowd happy, you SHOULD have released them both at the same time. As far as needing love, there has not been any new "SOLO" PVE content since launch. And I quoted that for all those people who will come out and say "What about Craglorn!!"? Craglorn was forced group PVE content that many people have a hard time doing because they can't find a group, or if they do, had problems with quest phasing issues. Some of the phasing issues have been resolved, but I still see lots of Zone chat from people begging for Craglorn quest partners.

I'm willing to give the IC a try and see how things work out, but we need some good PVE content "SOON (tm)"!

CP5

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.

With this as the case, how do you intend pvp players to get a large number of stones? I doubt quest and chest will provide a massive number and I doubt people who are getting IC for the pvp are eagerly waiting to grind mobs. If this is your goal you need a source of stones for pvp players that doesn't involve farming pve players.

Cagro

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.

@ZOS_RichLambert - I don't think we had any doubt it was mainly aimed at the PvP players, I am a PvP player so most of this whole thing sounds great... also looking forward to the next PvE release in the hope there is some fun solo content to balance the group stuff in Craglorn.

Having to satisfy base campaign conditions to enter... great!
Having new PvP areas to explore and learn... great!
Having daedra and NPCs interspersed... great! (and a bone for PvE too)
Having lots of new sets (as long as you are not gating PvE focused sets behind PvP content)... great!
New dungeons... great!

But as a PvP player I have severe doubts about this one single mechanic - that being hit by a single kill removes everything you may have done since entering the zone and rewards someone for scoring one single kill when they may have not one single thing I can loot when I turn the tables on them.

Actually, some of us will even prefer full loot upon death, i.e. you lose gear, gold, etc. Some of us play PVP for the feeling of "I can get kill any moment and lose stuff if I make a mistake." Dying without a consequence does not give us that adrenaline rush that some of us are looking for. I know there are game like that out there, i.e. Darkfalls, but they are not as good as ESO and definitely not available for a console.

DDuke

Cagro wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.

@ZOS_RichLambert - I don't think we had any doubt it was mainly aimed at the PvP players, I am a PvP player so most of this whole thing sounds great... also looking forward to the next PvE release in the hope there is some fun solo content to balance the group stuff in Craglorn.

Having to satisfy base campaign conditions to enter... great!
Having new PvP areas to explore and learn... great!
Having daedra and NPCs interspersed... great! (and a bone for PvE too)
Having lots of new sets (as long as you are not gating PvE focused sets behind PvP content)... great!
New dungeons... great!

But as a PvP player I have severe doubts about this one single mechanic - that being hit by a single kill removes everything you may have done since entering the zone and rewards someone for scoring one single kill when they may have not one single thing I can loot when I turn the tables on them.

Actually, some of us will even prefer full loot upon death, i.e. you lose gear, gold, etc. Some of us play PVP for the feeling of "I can get kill any moment and lose stuff if I make a mistake." Dying without a consequence does not give us that adrenaline rush that some of us are looking for. I know there are game like that out there, i.e. Darkfalls, but they are not as good as ESO and definitely not available for a console.

I would personally never set foot in a zone where I could lose the gear I spent months gathering in raids/PvP.

However, I'm not one to say such content shouldn't exist for the people who enjoy that much risk, as long as concerns such as BoP gear "trading" etc were resolved.

Tavore1138

Cagro wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.

@ZOS_RichLambert - I don't think we had any doubt it was mainly aimed at the PvP players, I am a PvP player so most of this whole thing sounds great... also looking forward to the next PvE release in the hope there is some fun solo content to balance the group stuff in Craglorn.

Having to satisfy base campaign conditions to enter... great!
Having new PvP areas to explore and learn... great!
Having daedra and NPCs interspersed... great! (and a bone for PvE too)
Having lots of new sets (as long as you are not gating PvE focused sets behind PvP content)... great!
New dungeons... great!

But as a PvP player I have severe doubts about this one single mechanic - that being hit by a single kill removes everything you may have done since entering the zone and rewards someone for scoring one single kill when they may have not one single thing I can loot when I turn the tables on them.

Actually, some of us will even prefer full loot upon death, i.e. you lose gear, gold, etc. Some of us play PVP for the feeling of "I can get kill any moment and lose stuff if I make a mistake." Dying without a consequence does not give us that adrenaline rush that some of us are looking for. I know there are game like that out there, i.e. Darkfalls, but they are not as good as ESO and definitely not available for a console.

I know some of you do, and some of us don't - all depends what you are seeking from a game. I am not saying what you want is wrong it is just not really compatible with what I want in it's purest form. That is why I hope ZOS can come up with a solution that will make us both happy to play IC.

Emma_Overload

Sharee wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

But behind it all is the problem that it will reward people for behaving like muggers because it is not really spreading the risk and reward around... the person with stones takes all the risk and the person without stones (actual and metaphorical) simply takes no risk at all...

First, 'behaving like muggers' is exactly what PvP is about. You kill other players, because you have motivation to do so. Whether this motivation is TV stones or AP is irrelevant, the behavior is the same(and thus not something new coming with IC).

And i find your attitude insulting. PvP players do not go to PvP areas because they are evil and despicable people, the go there to have fun competing against other players. It is what the PvP area was made for.

Second, your insinuation that there is no risk at all for the PvP player is simply wrong. It's not like the moment he gets a kill, he magically gets transported back to his bank to deposit his stones. He is now the one loaded with stones he can lose at any moment, because there are enemy players looking for him. In fact, he is likely already fighting for his life, because the enemy player was just waiting until someone tries to attack that PvE'r over there.

Also, i don't know where you got the idea that a PvP player won't ever touch a mob. I certainly plan to get as many stones as i can, and that means attacking mobs just as readily as enemy players.

Sheesh, how many time must I repeat - I AM A PVP PLAYER!!!!

Where in my post do you see me suggest otherwise? I haven't made any guesses about your playing habits. I react to what you said, not to what i think you are.

And PvP as done in ESO is 100% NOT about behaving like a mugger it is about playing for your alliance to win a campaign.

The fact alliance points exist suggests otherwise. You do not need those to win a campaign. They directly motivate players to kill each other for profit. Just like TV stones will. No change there.

Of course winning a campaign is a motivation too, i do not deny it, but it certainly is not 100% of the motivation when it come to defeating enemy players.

WRONG. When you are rewarded AP from killing another player, you don't get it by looting it off his corpse, and his AP inventory doesn't decrease by the amount yours increased.

Emma_Overload

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.

BAM!!!


And here the complaint train ends!

LOL.....

No.

newtinmpls

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Reading the comments, I'm starting to think most of these players deserve to get griefed. Sorry.

I'm not clear why.

What I see is players who don't like fighting other players, and concurrent to that have not develped those skills (again: not interested in that aspect of the game) perceving that suddenly they are given an "opportunity" which essentially forces them to go toe-to-toe with groups and individuals who not only outmatch them, but are already laying on the threats and mockery because of the imbalance in combat skills.

So a PvE'er deserves to be greifed, because s/he dosn't share your enjoyment for a particular playstyle, and doesn't particularly care to have rewards related to the PvE experience obtainable only via PvP?

Is that what you mean to be saying?

Dominoid

Avenias wrote: »

"The only way to leave the imperial city is through the door you just came in." Going to be hilarious watching people camping entry and exit points killing everyone who does not have the teleport stone.

That's is how you leave, but you spawn back at your alliances's gate not the sewer exit.

DDuke

newtinmpls wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Reading the comments, I'm starting to think most of these players deserve to get griefed. Sorry.

I'm not clear why.

What I see is players who don't like fighting other players, and concurrent to that have not develped those skills (again: not interested in that aspect of the game) perceving that suddenly they are given an "opportunity" which essentially forces them to go toe-to-toe with groups and individuals who not only outmatch them, but are already laying on the threats and mockery because of the imbalance in combat skills.

So a PvE'er deserves to be greifed, because s/he dosn't share your enjoyment for a particular playstyle, and doesn't particularly care to have rewards related to the PvE experience obtainable only via PvP?

Is that what you mean to be saying?

That comment was made by me, not jamesharv.

I stick by it, however.

An entitled PvEr who QQs on the forums when a certain DLC/content patch isn't 100% tailored for his/her preferences (but in favor of game diversity tries to appease to other types of players) absolutely deserves to get griefed.

You grief the forums, I grief you in game. That's how griefing works.

Acrolas

...but how many stones do you actually need? A few hundred? A few thousand? A million? Tens of millions?

If it's an obscenely large number, it's probably a bad system to begin with.
But as needed quantity decreases, there will eventually be a surplus. Then you're just giving people something they don't need from somebody who may need them.

Most_Awesome

I predict the PvP gear sets will be sooooo crapy that you won't actualy be bothered if you lose all your stones anyway. If I remember correctly ingots were 100 stones each so after a week or so you will be able to craft your v16 sets and just wait for the next PVE zone DLC to drop and get better worth while gear sets

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

But as a PvP player I have severe doubts about this one single mechanic - that being hit by a single kill removes everything you may have done since entering the zone and rewards someone for scoring one single kill when they may have not one single thing I can loot when I turn the tables on them.

Like @ZOS_BrianWheeler mentioned yesterday on ESO Live - we'll be watching PTS closely, tracking the data and feedback. We'll test out a couple of different loss percentages and see what strikes the right balance.

The right balance is losing ZERO of your stones to players. If the PVP people want stones let them do like everyone else and EARN them instead of stealing them. You guys want this to sell right? As it is you arent going to sell very many of these and when the people who dont use the forums figure out what you have done there will be an uproar like you have never seen.

Just bewilders me why you guys dont learn from the history of other games that player looting is a huge no-no. I guess you will be forced to learn the hard way. When you lose even more of the players one of these days you guys will start listening to us.

Attorneyatlawl

DDuke wrote: »

God-eater wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

It's amazing how the Skyrim players try to ruin the only new, meaningful PvP content we will probably ever see.

You never played Skyrim? You should - it was really good.

Compared to previous classics such as TES 3 Morrowind, that still had some depth & complexity to them?

Nah...

Yep even oblivion which is the only knew I've sunk much time into had extraordinary depth compared to the brief taste I took of Skyrim, which appeared to be shallow enough and had ticked me off with the forced, extraordinarily long introduction sequence that didn't let you even pan the camera most of the way through.

MsPtibiscuit

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

But as a PvP player I have severe doubts about this one single mechanic - that being hit by a single kill removes everything you may have done since entering the zone and rewards someone for scoring one single kill when they may have not one single thing I can loot when I turn the tables on them.

Like @ZOS_BrianWheeler mentioned yesterday on ESO Live - we'll be watching PTS closely, tracking the data and feedback. We'll test out a couple of different loss percentages and see what strikes the right balance.

The right balance is losing ZERO of your stones to players. If the PVP people want stones let them do like everyone else and EARN them instead of stealing them. You guys want this to sell right? As it is you arent going to sell very many of these and when the people who dont use the forums figure out what you have done there will be an uproar like you have never seen.

Just bewilders me why you guys dont learn from the history of other games that player looting is a huge no-no. I guess you will be forced to learn the hard way. When you lose even more of the players one of these days you guys will start listening to us.

So, basically, because we shouldn't force PvP content to PvE players, we should lose 0 stones when we die so that PvP players are forced to do PvE content to get stones.

newtinmpls

DDuke wrote: »

That comment was made by me, not jamesharv.

I stick by it, however.

An entitled PvEr who QQs on the forums when a certain DLC/content patch isn't 100% tailored for his/her preferences (but in favor of game diversity tries to appease to other types of players) absolutely deserves to get griefed.

You grief the forums, I grief you in game. That's how griefing works.

Thank you for correcting my quite attribution. After the first "nesting" it gets challenging to sort them out.

As for who/what the DLC (or any content/patch) is tailored for - that is not my issue.

It seems to me that PvP has been essentially shafted all along, and I would have been totally happy if IC was PvP only. And in fact if the next three zones released were PvP only.

I do like game diversity. I also think that ZoS has a hard line to walk balancing PvP and PvE and sometimes it looks like the collective creative energies of the company as a whole come out seeming ... kind of psychotic.

What I am specifically objecting to is that I PvE by preference and I heartily aknowledge that I ... gosh what word isn't going to be edited .... I'm terrible in both skill-wise and hendle-it-wise in dealing with PvP. I know my preferences, and I know my weaknesses and that's partly why

-I don't play Risk or Axis and Allies any more ('cause I just dont deal well with "friends" "attacking me")
-I don't play first person shooters ('cause I LIKE questing, and even writing fanfic about cooperative efforts)
-I don't play much in Cyrodiil

That's also why I DO play ESO - because it is the only ES game that my spouse and I can play together. That's why I play. To "play with" not to "play against".

I'm fine not having content "tailored" to me.

I'm not fine having game expansions (increased levels, dropped sets, materials needed to craft things) required to be functional at higher levels in PvE effectively locked by being in PvP territory. Yes, anyone can gank me easily and I will mostly just be confused. Yes, call me a party pooper or chicken or whatever. I know what I like in a game, and fighting with other players is NOT it.

Maybe I'm missing something and I can get all these PvE items, materials and whatever myself. Not stealing, trading or greifing other players, but just myself.

I'm just worried, because that is not what it looks like.

Hope I'm wrong.

RustedValor

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

But as a PvP player I have severe doubts about this one single mechanic - that being hit by a single kill removes everything you may have done since entering the zone and rewards someone for scoring one single kill when they may have not one single thing I can loot when I turn the tables on them.

Like @ZOS_BrianWheeler mentioned yesterday on ESO Live - we'll be watching PTS closely, tracking the data and feedback. We'll test out a couple of different loss percentages and see what strikes the right balance.

The right balance is losing ZERO of your stones to players. If the PVP people want stones let them do like everyone else and EARN them instead of stealing them. You guys want this to sell right? As it is you arent going to sell very many of these and when the people who dont use the forums figure out what you have done there will be an uproar like you have never seen.

Just bewilders me why you guys dont learn from the history of other games that player looting is a huge no-no. I guess you will be forced to learn the hard way. When you lose even more of the players one of these days you guys will start listening to us.

HMMM I dunno, DayZ was the #1 selling game on steam for like 2 years and it is a game based on 100% player looting and killing where you have to start from scratch every time you die. Lets not forget that you can physically restrain players, break their legs, and force feed them rotten food. Afterwards you leave them in the middle of nowhere with two broken legs after robbing them where they have to crawl for 2 hours to a cliff to kill themselves or just wait a few hours to die of dehydration or starvation with no way around this system whatsoever. I think you strongly underestimate the size of the gaming community that loves making other players suffer lol.

newtinmpls

RustedValor wrote: »

I think you strongly underestimate the size of the gaming community that loves making other players suffer lol.

I don't underestimate them.

I also don't want to game with them.

This is why I have been grateful for ZoS for mostly separating PvE and PvP.

I also think that there is an inherent flaw in designing a game that starts with pretty much all PvE then essentially switches to either PvP or endless repeats of the same PvE dungeon groups.

PvP players are sort of forced to PvE to get to what they really want

PvE players are given PvP as an endgame/reward and they never wanted it in the first place. I'd like to see more options for both (separately) along the way with choice.

Like opt in/opt out toggles with 1 week cooldowns on dueling, justice system and so on.