Everything you feared about stones is true... from their live broadcast...

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

mrskinskull wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

mrskinskull wrote: »

Will there be off hours and empty servers for people to jump in when its slow? There are several PvP servers with one dominant team. Won't this just end up being the case?

Or will there just be the one campaign? Is the imp city tied to the azure star campaign for example?


I think this thing will sort itself out buff server style. Especially considering the buffs of buff servers will be leaving.

I think the very high level people are more used to an easy 'grind' style fight and will likely group on a particular server creating defacto power structures.

The few brave pvpers that attmpet to invade will likely be smoked instantly.

There will be one big area with a few good spots to kill stuff. The guilds you speak of will be there and kill anyone trying to do the content. Just like werewolf bites if you want this gear you will be forced to pay them. Just silly. At this point I think I am absolutely done with ESO. I havent paid them since March havent logged in since last month. The people steering this ship are totally out of their element.

No James, it won't be that bad. If there are multiple servers, each faction will likely claim complete control of one and kill any one foolish to enter. If you enter while your faction is in control, the worst the home faction jerks might do, is not heal you.

I think the imperial city will go the way of the buff servers. With buff servers on their way out, I think cunning game breakers will be targeting the imperial city.

You are as clueless as the developer they had on ESO Live thinking everyone will play nice. There is no way that is going to happen. Just like they dont play nice with the werewold and vampire spawns. There are not multiple servers either. It is ONE server with all three factions fighting in it anywhere they wish outside of your base. Your base has no mobs for you to kill. So the public delve and anyplace with more than 5 mobs will be camped 24/7 and you will be killed for trying to play the DLC you paid for. Not only killed but all your stuff looted.

The NGE of ESO. Unless they get new leadership and quick this game is going to announce a closure within a year. You can say Im crazy but I also said if they dont change they will be forced to go either b2p or f2p because of lack of subs. Shockingly I was right then and I am right now. I have been playing MMOs since the first one. This is a horrible idea and they will learn soon enough players cannot be trusted to police themselves. If given the chance they will ruin everyone elses fun to staisfy their sociopathic tendencies.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

sagitter wrote: »

This is something that make me excited, finally some risky element for pvping , an element that is missing in modern mmo since Ultima Online, and like always whiners come here whining and screaming , even if they have not tryed yet the mechanic. It's really true, new generations want all ready at lower risk, a bunch of laziness, this is what i see. Do you want all mmo to be a stupid clone, or do you want something exciting and new? Zos pls do not listen to these whiners because they always ll'have something about to complaining, and in the end the game will be another stupid clone and not something original nowdays. THIS IS A PVP DLC, PVERS WAIT FOR YOUR DLC PLS, YOU GOT ALREADY MORE LOVE THAN PVP.

Ultima Online was only open pvp from 1997 to 2000 when after losing 80% of the player base they were forced to create trammel which was a consentual pvp area. I dont think thats a very good example from you. The players in UO like all MMOs with open pvp could not control themselves. So the company was forced to take drastic actions.

I played UO from 1996 to 2003. I owned a keep inside the guard zone in Vesper that I won in a random drawing contest from OSI. I had the most popular vendor mall on my server because people could shop without being killed or stolen from. People flooded to my vendor mall because they didnt want to be killed by other people. Eventually it was create a consentual pvp world or close. Which is crazy considering at the time it was EQ and UO basically thats it.

Shadowbane is another open world pvp disaster. Eve online has what 200k players? 200k players cannot support elder scrolls online. Everytime anyone has tried this it has been a unmitigated disaster of biblical proportions. So continue to say how great this is until they announce the game is closing because of lack of interest.

JD2013

Can we please have new things without this?

PVE people: You will get Orsinium.

You can choose to play this update or not. If you want to, join with a PVP guild. Ask for help. Learn. It is actually fun in Cyrodiil.

"Hardcore" PVP people: Stop baiting and adding to the flames. I understand that there has been no new PVP content in over a year, and this is all fun and exciting, but don't be "that" guy.

I am looking forward to Imperial City. Let's play nice until we are in the city, please!

Xjcon

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Denaia wrote: »

Yeah.. and they require money for this ganking aswell?

let's first start by removing the champion system.. untill then this is a very very very very very bad idea.

The champion system is fine. It rewards work and effort. The VR system and the champion system together is the issue.

We were lead to believe that the champion system would replace VR. Now it seems that was not a true statement so here lies that issue

VR needed to be removed with Imperial City release.

With players so far ahead of everyone else you still want them to drop VR for CP? Then what? make the players who are almost over 1000 revert back to the average level? That makes no sense what so ever. The complication that CP is so vast in comparison to the VR system is most likely the reason they put the removal on the back shelf to pretty much be forgotten.

This new PVP meta is going to be interesting and I am ok with it so long as BIS gear isn't gated behind being steamroller by VET pvp guilds over and over till you can come up with enough points to get what you need.

sagitter

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

sagitter wrote: »

This is something that make me excited, finally some risky element for pvping , an element that is missing in modern mmo since Ultima Online, and like always whiners come here whining and screaming , even if they have not tryed yet the mechanic. It's really true, new generations want all ready at lower risk, a bunch of laziness, this is what i see. Do you want all mmo to be a stupid clone, or do you want something exciting and new? Zos pls do not listen to these whiners because they always ll'have something about to complaining, and in the end the game will be another stupid clone and not something original nowdays. THIS IS A PVP DLC, PVERS WAIT FOR YOUR DLC PLS, YOU GOT ALREADY MORE LOVE THAN PVP.

Ultima Online was only open pvp from 1997 to 2000 when after losing 80% of the player base they were forced to create trammel which was a consentual pvp area. I dont think thats a very good example from you. The players in UO like all MMOs with open pvp could not control themselves. So the company was forced to take drastic actions.

I played UO from 1996 to 2003. I owned a keep inside the guard zone in Vesper that I won in a random drawing contest from OSI. I had the most popular vendor mall on my server because people could shop without being killed or stolen from. People flooded to my vendor mall because they didnt want to be killed by other people. Eventually it was create a consentual pvp world or close. Which is crazy considering at the time it was EQ and UO basically thats it.

Shadowbane is another open world pvp disaster. Eve online has what 200k players? 200k players cannot support elder scrolls online. Everytime anyone has tried this it has been a unmitigated disaster of biblical proportions. So continue to say how great this is until they announce the game is closing because of lack of interest.

That s why i stopped to play on official ultima online server, and i was playing on free emulated server, with original Ultima flavour, and had tons of fun. I lost many rare mounts and items, and who cares the risk is what made me feel excited and real. , still had fun .What i wanted to say is that, till the ppl don't change their mentality, we will see always another mmo clone, and that is the sad true story.

Freeman

Imperial City explained for PVE Players:

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/197234/imperial-city-explained-for-pve-players-by-a-pve-carebear#latest

Carde

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

200k players cannot support elder scrolls online.

Why do you say this exactly is it because 200k players cannot support the great bounty of content that has been pouring out or what?

helediron

I am a carebear crafter, and a rather old one. People like me are the ones who actually collect the 10000 mats to craft legendary gear. If the loss from farming goes too high, we walk away. So make up a compromise that feels good for both PvE and PvP, as these two are now shoved into same DLC.

10% loot of stones is better than 100%. Then gankers have to work equally hard as PvE farmers. Collecting e.g. 1000 stones would take roughly equally long time. Then risk and reward is balanced.

EQBallzz

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

If you are mainly a PvE player, there's no need to worry about the PvP aspect of IC anyway. The Tel Var Stone containers that you get for doing quests and dailies can't be looted from you, and the 4-man dungeons are PvE only and you can teleport directly into and out of them without having to PvP. PvE players can have access to everything IC has to offer in regards to new sets and items. Gankers, zergs, and griefers aren't going to be able to keep you from anything. You don't even have to go to IC to get the new stuff, just buy it from your guild mates or others who do PvP.

You are assuming that a PvE player who only does daily quests can earn enough TV stones in a reasonable enough time to buy anything. We still don't know the cost of items or the amount per daily quest. Based on the horrible rewards of the current daily quests I have serious doubts that anyone will be able to utilize daily quests as a reasonable alternative to farming stones through PvP area bosses/monsters/players. If PvE players can't really earn enough through those daily quests it's just a bogus bone thrown to PvE players to shut them up but doesn't amount to much.

If somehow they made the rewards high enough that they could actually buy things with those rewards and circumvent the danger of PvP it would cheapen the whole PvP based system and many would just do dailies (and PvP players would rightly cry about it). I'm guessing it's the former and dailies won't provide nearly enough TV stones to be worth the trouble.

I'm not much of a PvP player so this whole TV stone system sounds pretty awful and this whole content release sounds awful. That being said I'm not really saying they should nerf it. For PvP players it sounds like it would be interesting and I'm OK with that. The problem is that no real content has been released for anyone in so long this is just more reason not to play ESO at all if you focus on PvE.

It's been almost a year since Craglorn was released and it was a fairly botched group based zone that has not been well received and was nerfed into the ground XP-wise which made it utterly useless for one of the two things people used that zone for..grinding. The other thing people use it for is harvesting which PvP players also got use from I assume.

This PvP-centric DLC wouldn't be a huge deal if there was more PvE content as well so they should release the next PvE focused DLC sooner rather than later but I suspect we won't see it until Christmas at the earliest which would extend the gap in PvE content to an absurd level of more than a year.

RedTalon

For some reason this doesn't seem like news, just what you would expect from a pvp city zone and such.

Scowler

Cyrodil is the PvP portion of ESO. IC is an expansion to Cyrodil; therefore, it is PvP oriented. Rather than a diatribe regarding what IC is not, it will be more constructive - and less stressful - to try to enjoy IC for what it is intended to be: a fun expansion to PvP combat in Cyrodil. Which doesn't mean we are obligated to have fun, or observe other people having fun, merely that we should hope for the best.

Also, remember that we're talking about ZOS here. 2 to 1 IC launches late, broken, or both. Bickering is a bit premature.

EQBallzz

MsPtibiscuit wrote: »

I can't believe are really complaining about a system like that. This is the first time ESO devs try to do something different than the typical themepark content, and people, without even trying the system, are already unhappy.

You guys really need to get out of this "progression" mentality. Stop thinking that you have to have 62 stones by the end of the evening, and if you can't achieve that, then it is the fault of the game or bad gamedesign.
Just play the game as it is, enjoy victories, learn from defeats. Even if you lose some stones along the way, the frustration will make the next victory sweeter.

People often forget that while full-loot PvP (The way stone works is similar to that) lets jerks play like jerks, it also lets white knights play like white knights. If you don't like the gankers, go form a group and patrol the area to protect the members of your faction.
That's what happened in BDO where a player pacified a region where spawn-killers were active. It's the kind of *** you can't do without spawn-killers in the first place.

Had to give you an awesome for that. You almost paint a positive picture of what Imperial "ganker" City could be and then I remembered human nature and more specifically...human pvp'er nature. Nope. Not gonna happen!

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Carde wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

200k players cannot support elder scrolls online.

Why do you say this exactly is it because 200k players cannot support the great bounty of content that has been pouring out or what?

200k people will not generate enough money to even pay the bandwidth on the servers.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

EQBallzz wrote: »

MsPtibiscuit wrote: »

I can't believe are really complaining about a system like that. This is the first time ESO devs try to do something different than the typical themepark content, and people, without even trying the system, are already unhappy.

You guys really need to get out of this "progression" mentality. Stop thinking that you have to have 62 stones by the end of the evening, and if you can't achieve that, then it is the fault of the game or bad gamedesign.
Just play the game as it is, enjoy victories, learn from defeats. Even if you lose some stones along the way, the frustration will make the next victory sweeter.

People often forget that while full-loot PvP (The way stone works is similar to that) lets jerks play like jerks, it also lets white knights play like white knights. If you don't like the gankers, go form a group and patrol the area to protect the members of your faction.
That's what happened in BDO where a player pacified a region where spawn-killers were active. It's the kind of *** you can't do without spawn-killers in the first place.

Had to give you an awesome for that. You almost paint a positive picture of what Imperial "ganker" City could be and then I remembered human nature and more specifically...human pvp'er nature. Nope. Not gonna happen!

I think its cute people believe that everyone will play fair and people will defend the players who arent as good at pvp. Fact is like every game thats tried this it will end in disaster.

Korah_Eaglecry

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

MsPtibiscuit wrote: »

I can't believe are really complaining about a system like that. This is the first time ESO devs try to do something different than the typical themepark content, and people, without even trying the system, are already unhappy.

You guys really need to get out of this "progression" mentality. Stop thinking that you have to have 62 stones by the end of the evening, and if you can't achieve that, then it is the fault of the game or bad gamedesign.
Just play the game as it is, enjoy victories, learn from defeats. Even if you lose some stones along the way, the frustration will make the next victory sweeter.

People often forget that while full-loot PvP (The way stone works is similar to that) lets jerks play like jerks, it also lets white knights play like white knights. If you don't like the gankers, go form a group and patrol the area to protect the members of your faction.
That's what happened in BDO where a player pacified a region where spawn-killers were active. It's the kind of *** you can't do without spawn-killers in the first place.

Had to give you an awesome for that. You almost paint a positive picture of what Imperial "ganker" City could be and then I remembered human nature and more specifically...human pvp'er nature. Nope. Not gonna happen!

I think its cute people believe that everyone will play fair and people will defend the players who arent as good at pvp. Fact is like every game thats tried this it will end in disaster.

Im actually hoping its a disaster. The fact is, even when ZOS had a drop in subs last October. They have yet to face a real failure. This community has, begrudgingly at times, supported this game more then it ever deserved. And for no other reason than because it has Elder Scrolls in the title.

GreySix

After reading everything about this upcoming expansion, likely won't be purchasing it (dropped our subscriptions last month).

... but might try it out on PTS.

Sharee

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

MsPtibiscuit wrote: »

I can't believe are really complaining about a system like that. This is the first time ESO devs try to do something different than the typical themepark content, and people, without even trying the system, are already unhappy.

You guys really need to get out of this "progression" mentality. Stop thinking that you have to have 62 stones by the end of the evening, and if you can't achieve that, then it is the fault of the game or bad gamedesign.
Just play the game as it is, enjoy victories, learn from defeats. Even if you lose some stones along the way, the frustration will make the next victory sweeter.

People often forget that while full-loot PvP (The way stone works is similar to that) lets jerks play like jerks, it also lets white knights play like white knights. If you don't like the gankers, go form a group and patrol the area to protect the members of your faction.
That's what happened in BDO where a player pacified a region where spawn-killers were active. It's the kind of *** you can't do without spawn-killers in the first place.

Had to give you an awesome for that. You almost paint a positive picture of what Imperial "ganker" City could be and then I remembered human nature and more specifically...human pvp'er nature. Nope. Not gonna happen!

I think its cute people believe that everyone will play fair and people will defend the players who arent as good at pvp. Fact is like every game thats tried this it will end in disaster.

Oh, they won't do it because they care one iota for your well-being.

They will do it because you are the perfect bait. Why look for stealthed enemy players all over IC when they can just camp you, waiting until a would-be ganker tries to kill you?

I don't know about 'every game that tried this', but in DAoC's Darkness falls it worked very well for me

Lava_Croft

Please try harder to ruin yet another PvP element in ESO, Skyrim players. There's still a little bit of non-braindead gameplay left in this game that you must purge.

Vahrokh

DDuke wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

That fundamentally goes against the spirit of ESO, methinks. Instead of encouraging the best in us, it will encourage the worst in us. Nothing good comes from encouraging gankfesting.

Alright, so spirit of ESO is what, holding hands & dancing around a bonfire?

My best MMO memories after Molten Core/BWL in WoW are actually the memories of ganking (and getting ganked) in Stranglethorn Vale, back in the vanilla days.

Knowing there could be a rogue sneaking somewhere, making you have to run back to your corpse was a good feeling.
A feeling of danger & excitement, which this game severely lacks.

Death in this game is just "whatever, respawn & zerg again!", but no longer after Imperial City.

If this is not your cup of tea, no one is forcing you to participate in it.

But do not expect every player to just want to hold hands & dance around a bonfire.
We all have different tastes & expectations when it comes to MMOs, and providing something for everyone is not only good, it's optimal.

In fact I loved MC / BWL because of the epic lore inside them, not because of some griefers outside.
It's really 2 sides of humanity, one that loves to be together, achieve common goals, enjoy the lore, live epic experiences vs one that is out there to kill and corpse camp you while emoting and dancing.

Vahrokh

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

King Bozo wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

King Bozo wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

I have just seen and oddly jolly broadcast from ZOS in which they confirm that IC is basically a w... gankfest for griefers over PvE and proper PvP players... so good luck subscribers or crown paying PvE players ZOS are giggly like loons about you being ganked by griefers... not only that but if groups zerg individuals the group shares the stones... 20 vs 1 is their new sad meta...

This is so frelling sad I am shocked to watch them drool over it..

I had really hoped this would be player friendly but it isn't - this is all about feeding sad trolls...

There is no player friendly options in pvp. All blues and reds must die when I am in pvp and vice versa. Build a pvp build and fight back or else don't come to cyrodill if your afraid of getting owned.

King Bozo wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

I have just seen and oddly jolly broadcast from ZOS in which they confirm that IC is basically a w... gankfest for griefers over PvE and proper PvP players... so good luck subscribers or crown paying PvE players ZOS are giggly like loons about you being ganked by griefers... not only that but if groups zerg individuals the group shares the stones... 20 vs 1 is their new sad meta...

This is so frelling sad I am shocked to watch them drool over it..

I had really hoped this would be player friendly but it isn't - this is all about feeding sad trolls...

There is no player friendly options in pvp. All blues and reds must die when I am in pvp and vice versa. Build a pvp build and fight back or else don't come to cyrodill if your afraid of getting owned.

For sure, but you can't steal my gear - I expect you to try and kill me (and then die trying) but when one of us dies we keep the things we worked for.

You will have to be more cautious instead of having things handed to you .

But that's just the point I think - these things are not 'handed' to you, you get them by playing the game and killing daedra. They are no different in many ways to any other game item from gold pieces down to your shiny gold armour - you've done something in terms of time investment to earn them be it harvesting and selling stuff, earning AP by playing PvP or running high end PvE content to get particular sets.

I think I could get behind changing PvP so that if you ran and got killed with stones you'd lose a couple to any killer but the system they described last night seemed, to me, like an invitation to all the most spiteful kind of behaviours - personally I play games, at least partly, to get away from the sad realities of the worst facets of human nature so to hear ZOS are introducing a mechanic that encourages bad behaviour towards other players is a big problem.

I'm lucky enough to be in one of the better PvP guilds on my server & my personal KB to death ratio suggests I could do quite nicely from this on average especially if I chose to indulge in the kind of unpleasantness I fear others will be and pick on lowbies - my concerns here are largely about what this will do in terms of creating a negative environment in which to play that will drive more players from the game than it will attract.

Well said! With this expansion, ZOS is actively encouraging the worst sort of behavior in the game. In the broadcast, the developers even called it ganking and laughed about the idea of players having fun ganking other players. Do they really think that turning this game into a ruthless gankfest is going to HELP? Any new players you attract won't be the kind of players you want in your game.

Pallmor wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

It's a PvP update. The only one we ever got and will ever get. Relax. When the Orsinium DLC content comes out, I'm not going to complain that I'm forced to PvE.

I think the assumption of this being good for PvP is actually flawed.

PvP ESO style is all about the team play - guilds and alliances working together to win a campaign for shared rewards, this TV stones mechanic actually works against team play.

Who is going to want to do the risky scouting roles when the consequences is not simply taking a death for the team but also losing personal items?

Who is going to want to play the distraction for the group if the raised likelihood of death means personal loss?

Suddenly rushing to help someone from your alliance in combat looks a lot less appealing when you can stay sneaked and get away with your own goods intact.

Suddenly even in a team there starts to be a temptation to just hang back a bit and let someone else die...

Taking a chance on ressing a fallen colleague in combat looks a lot less appealing...

This change encourages a change in style away from cooperative play across alliances to a much more self centred one - I don't think PvP will be the winner here.

Agreed. I can only imagine the kind of ruthlessness and backstabbing behavior this will encourage. If I wanted a paranoid gankfest full of sociopaths, I would be playing EVE, not ESO.

LOL have you been ganked?

lol, of course. I've played in Cyrodil, haven't I? But the difference is that there I can laugh it off and chaulk it up as part of the fun, a mild annoyance. I dare say it will be a lot less fun when you're carrying several thousand stones on a haul. Everyone has heard stories of EVE Online players developing mental illnesses playing that gankfest--becoming paranoid, obsessive, etc. The higher the stakes, the less it becomes fun and the more it becomes frustrating and even infuriating.

That fundamentally goes against the spirit of ESO, methinks. Instead of encouraging the best in us, it will encourage the worst in us. Nothing good comes from encouraging gankfesting.

Well i belive that ( never played) EVE was Badly designed and the dev's have lost contact with what a GAME is, but i also belive that BALANCED CONSEQUENCES are not a bad thing this is not RL!
If someone has 1-10 stones with him i (the ganker) will be able only to loot 1 from him but if he goes around with 300 stones in order to get the bonus and i kill him i want my bonus too (since someone so confident that goes around with so many is certainly not a noob).

Maybe it will work like the AP sistem : if i kill the same player more that 2 times i get NO stones.

As i have told many times, already, we still have to test the update and adress the problems to the dev's so is worthless to cry NOW.

I have played EvE for 8 years. It's an awesome game in most of its features and, most of all, it has the foundations to make bearable all sorts of behaviors. Most of all, it gives alternate routes for those who don't want to participate in PvE or PvP, gear is not bound so anyone can have anything however he plays. Plus there are very few "extra rare" things, so what you lose as a PvPer are just stock Tech 2 modules (and possibly 1-2 meta 3-4 ones for best power grid fitting). Basically a loss is a setback but it's not a "loss of what I have dearest". In ESO terms, it's like you'd die and lost your set of crafted gear with no enhancements on it. Hurts, but in the end all you have to do is to craft and put up another set.

The various "psychic" events in EvE have been caused by third parties doing pretty bad meta things, that is they'd "recruit" guild members and - outside of EvE - they'd grief them on Team Speak. EvE per se is pretty neutral and sandbox, it's people who fill that sandbox with what they are.

Tavore1138

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Please try harder to ruin yet another PvP element in ESO, Skyrim players. There's still a little bit of non-braindead gameplay left in this game that you must purge.

Naturally you have a lot of TES/Skyrim players here - their money has funded the game, that IP is why this game even exists - the appetite for small high risk combat is not great among players IMO.

Basically games need decent player bases and for a lot of people games are about relaxing and having fun not a life and death struggle filled with tension and frustration... that's why increasingly this sort of content just doesn't exist in mainstream games.

I think that it could work in ESO if it was a small area just aimed at the select few but this area is mixed content, the armour sets will inevitably turn out to be excellent to complete whatever the next big PvE release is for raiders (just like Ravager or Morag Tong) just as the sets from the new dungeons will probably rock in PvP (just like Skoria's meteor spamming hat)... whether this is something ZOS do on purpose or by accident is anyone's guess...

But behind it all is the problem that it will reward people for behaving like muggers because it is not really spreading the risk and reward around... the person with stones takes all the risk and the person without stones (actual and metaphorical) simply takes no risk at all... it is fairly transparent that a lot of those supporting this see themselves on the no-risk side, killing stone heavy targets and then sneaking off to bank their loot before waiting for the next poor fool who tries to play the content. I thin they see this as a fish in the barrel simulator brining them rich new targets to kill with minimal risk.

Now bring me a game mechanic that spreads risk and reward evenly, and rewards those with skill and I suspect I'd be quite positive about it.

Sharee

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

But behind it all is the problem that it will reward people for behaving like muggers because it is not really spreading the risk and reward around... the person with stones takes all the risk and the person without stones (actual and metaphorical) simply takes no risk at all...

First, 'behaving like muggers' is exactly what PvP is about. You kill other players, because you have motivation to do so. Whether this motivation is TV stones or AP is irrelevant, the behavior is the same(and thus not something new coming with IC).

And i find your attitude insulting. PvP players do not go to PvP areas because they are evil and despicable people, the go there to have fun competing against other players. It is what the PvP area was made for.

Second, your insinuation that there is no risk at all for the PvP player is simply wrong. It's not like the moment he gets a kill, he magically gets transported back to his bank to deposit his stones. He is now the one loaded with stones he can lose at any moment, because there are enemy players looking for him. In fact, he is likely already fighting for his life, because the enemy player was just waiting until someone tries to attack that PvE'r over there.

Also, i don't know where you got the idea that a PvP player won't ever touch a mob. I certainly plan to get as many stones as i can, and that means attacking mobs just as readily as enemy players.

Faulgor

Sharee wrote: »

Also, i don't know where you got the idea that a PvP player won't ever touch a mob. I certainly plan to get as many stones as i can, and that means attacking mobs just as readily as enemy players.

It will also be very difficult to run through the IC just looking for players with aggressive mobs all around.

Tavore1138

Sharee wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

But behind it all is the problem that it will reward people for behaving like muggers because it is not really spreading the risk and reward around... the person with stones takes all the risk and the person without stones (actual and metaphorical) simply takes no risk at all...

First, 'behaving like muggers' is exactly what PvP is about. You kill other players, because you have motivation to do so. Whether this motivation is TV stones or AP is irrelevant, the behavior is the same(and thus not something new coming with IC).

And i find your attitude insulting. PvP players do not go to PvP areas because they are evil and despicable people, the go there to have fun competing against other players. It is what the PvP area was made for.

Second, your insinuation that there is no risk at all for the PvP player is simply wrong. It's not like the moment he gets a kill, he magically gets transported back to his bank to deposit his stones. He is now the one loaded with stones he can lose at any moment, because there are enemy players looking for him. In fact, he is likely already fighting for his life, because the enemy player was just waiting until someone tries to attack that PvE'r over there.

Also, i don't know where you got the idea that a PvP player won't ever touch a mob. I certainly plan to get as many stones as i can, and that means attacking mobs just as readily as enemy players.

Sheesh, how many time must I repeat - I AM A PVP PLAYER!!!!

Done the Emp thing, buy my gear from the elite vendor with AP (or in random boxes), rank 26 etc... I split my time more or less evenly between PvP and PvE and I love PvP... even with it's zergs and lags and macro spammers...

I also do trials, vet dungeons and farm mats for crafts. Hell, I even fished before perfect roe existed...

I am the very definition of a well rounded ESO player because I take part in everything this game provides and enjoy it all - I am probably their target market

And PvP as done in ESO is 100% NOT about behaving like a mugger it is about playing for your alliance to win a campaign. It does not have to be mean spirited and one can respect/appreciate the skill of those who beat you either in a raid or solo because there is no bitterness and no loss of property... yeah there will be some rage at times but in the main it is PvP at it's best - competitive and hard fought but free of spite.

And I like it like that and I think this will change that vibe in a negative way.

I think it will encourage players who right now I respect and enjoy playing with & against to play the new system to best effect and that may well mean robbing others while maintaining an empty inventory so you bear no risk in the encounter yourself... or waiting for lowbies to come by so you can steal stones without much risk of getting your own skin in the game.

For some players it will not be like that, some will want the challenge and accept a genuine risk and confront players on their level - but generally if something has a chance of bringing out the worst in human nature it will.

strikeback1247

I have to say that I am very excited for this DLC. I find that the risk involved here seems like a lot of fun and as a PvP and PvE player I love the idea of combining the two. The 100% loss ratio is ok for me, but I think it would be better to change it to a lower percentage, like 50%, so the PvE players won't have such a bad time in IC. I also think that lag/crashes might be very frustrating. I often crash in Cyro and would hate it if I would lose my TV stones because of that.

Appleblade

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

arena25 wrote: »

BEWARE...the Crimson Assassin comes for your Tel Var Stones...

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

AND RED IS BARELY ACCEPTED

But... But... I haven't unlocked a good black dye yet.

Sharee

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

But behind it all is the problem that it will reward people for behaving like muggers because it is not really spreading the risk and reward around... the person with stones takes all the risk and the person without stones (actual and metaphorical) simply takes no risk at all...

First, 'behaving like muggers' is exactly what PvP is about. You kill other players, because you have motivation to do so. Whether this motivation is TV stones or AP is irrelevant, the behavior is the same(and thus not something new coming with IC).

And i find your attitude insulting. PvP players do not go to PvP areas because they are evil and despicable people, the go there to have fun competing against other players. It is what the PvP area was made for.

Second, your insinuation that there is no risk at all for the PvP player is simply wrong. It's not like the moment he gets a kill, he magically gets transported back to his bank to deposit his stones. He is now the one loaded with stones he can lose at any moment, because there are enemy players looking for him. In fact, he is likely already fighting for his life, because the enemy player was just waiting until someone tries to attack that PvE'r over there.

Also, i don't know where you got the idea that a PvP player won't ever touch a mob. I certainly plan to get as many stones as i can, and that means attacking mobs just as readily as enemy players.

Sheesh, how many time must I repeat - I AM A PVP PLAYER!!!!

Where in my post do you see me suggest otherwise? I haven't made any guesses about your playing habits. I react to what you said, not to what i think you are.

And PvP as done in ESO is 100% NOT about behaving like a mugger it is about playing for your alliance to win a campaign.

The fact alliance points exist suggests otherwise. You do not need those to win a campaign. They directly motivate players to kill each other for profit. Just like TV stones will. No change there.

Of course winning a campaign is a motivation too, i do not deny it, but it certainly is not 100% of the motivation when it come to defeating enemy players.

Tavore1138

Sharee wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

But behind it all is the problem that it will reward people for behaving like muggers because it is not really spreading the risk and reward around... the person with stones takes all the risk and the person without stones (actual and metaphorical) simply takes no risk at all...

First, 'behaving like muggers' is exactly what PvP is about. You kill other players, because you have motivation to do so. Whether this motivation is TV stones or AP is irrelevant, the behavior is the same(and thus not something new coming with IC).

And i find your attitude insulting. PvP players do not go to PvP areas because they are evil and despicable people, the go there to have fun competing against other players. It is what the PvP area was made for.

Second, your insinuation that there is no risk at all for the PvP player is simply wrong. It's not like the moment he gets a kill, he magically gets transported back to his bank to deposit his stones. He is now the one loaded with stones he can lose at any moment, because there are enemy players looking for him. In fact, he is likely already fighting for his life, because the enemy player was just waiting until someone tries to attack that PvE'r over there.

Also, i don't know where you got the idea that a PvP player won't ever touch a mob. I certainly plan to get as many stones as i can, and that means attacking mobs just as readily as enemy players.

Sheesh, how many time must I repeat - I AM A PVP PLAYER!!!!

Where in my post do you see me suggest otherwise? I haven't made any guesses about your playing habits. I react to what you said, not to what i think you are.

And PvP as done in ESO is 100% NOT about behaving like a mugger it is about playing for your alliance to win a campaign.

The fact alliance points exist suggests otherwise. You do not need those to win a campaign. They directly motivate players to kill each other for profit. Just like TV stones will. No change there.

Of course winning a campaign is a motivation too, i do not deny it, but it certainly is not 100% of the motivation when it come to defeating enemy players.

Well you suggested you found my attitude to PvP players insulting and then proceeded to tell me what PvP players do think so I inferred you assumed I wasn't one... and it does seem to be a common view that only PvE players are against this new mechanic... which is far from being true.

Anyway, OK - so AP is a motivation but AP come from many activities... healing, resurrecting, repairing & the mighty defence tick are all contributors as well as straight kills... and I never said I was against killing in PvP, I am not even against solo or group ganking for the cause but I am against a certain type of mentality that this will bring out which is to forget all about the overall campaign and just roam the edges of battles trying to pick over corpses for loot while minimising your own risk. Everyone knows that griefers exist, even in this game to an extent - creating a mechanic that rewards the worst behaviour will simply mean that people will play that way because now there are potentially much bigger rewards for it.

Your point about another bigger playing waiting to gank him might also be true but you have now created two types of negative behaviour:

1. The PvE or PvP player who got gankled has lost his days work and is not not happy.
2. The secondary ganker who would currently probably come in and defend that player before he died has now instead waited for him to die and lose his stones simply so he can then take the stones from the guy who robbed him. So Alliance team work suffers too and hatred builds where people know damn well that you stood back and let them die simply so you could loot their stones second hand.

Everyone loses, the game gets a little bit meaner and players leave...

Sharee

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

2. The secondary ganker who would currently probably come in and defend that player before he died has now instead waited for him to die and lose his stones simply so he can then take the stones from the guy who robbed him. So Alliance team work suffers too and hatred builds where people know damn well that you stood back and let them die simply so you could loot their stones second hand.

This is a good point, and something i noticed as well. I would certainly welcome some mechanic that would encourage a friendly player to defend you, rather than wait until you die before killing the attacker and thus gain not only his stones but yours as well. This is feedback stuff - let ZOS figure out how to handle it.

Avenias

"The only way to leave the imperial city is through the door you just came in." Going to be hilarious watching people camping entry and exit points killing everyone who does not have the teleport stone.