No to VR16

AngryNord

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

The Craglorn quests are not solo content....

This is Elder Scrolls Online, not Elder Scrolls VI.

Forztr

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone,

We'll talk more about the the Veteran Rank increase, including the newly added benefits and vision behind doing so, when we start going into specifics about Imperial City later this month.

This is a PR fail. You drop the bomb of increasing the Veteran Rank cap but we have to wait two weeks for your reasoning? That's two weeks of player rage providing nothing but negative feedback and feeling towards your game.

On an issue as contentious as Veteran Ranks you should have released the information and reasoning at the same time. This just makes you look like amateurs.

Of course the cynic in me just thinks that you didn't predict the outcry and now need time to make up some spin to try to sell the idea.

Sausage

If the new info was to keep them so why not to add more of them, so yes. It just means veteran dungone are gonna be always bad, they are already awful if theres couple vr14 and its scaled to vr 4 for example.

sadownik

Forztr wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone,

We'll talk more about the the Veteran Rank increase, including the newly added benefits and vision behind doing so, when we start going into specifics about Imperial City later this month.

This is a PR fail. You drop the bomb of increasing the Veteran Rank cap but we have to wait two weeks for your reasoning? That's two weeks of player rage providing nothing but negative feedback and feeling towards your game.

On an issue as contentious as Veteran Ranks you should have released the information and reasoning at the same time. This just makes you look like amateurs.

Of course the cynic in me just thinks that you didn't predict the outcry and now need time to make up some spin to try to sell the idea.

The cynic in me tells me they know exactly what they are doing. Drop the bomb, wait it out and just clean the remaining ashes week after. The negative feedback was inevitable the most recent client base is even less keen to use official forums (sorry fellow console players but its true) and even if they do many of them didnt reaach vet ranks yet so they fail to grasp the problem - no big harm done here.

Personofsecrets

Forztr wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone,

We'll talk more about the the Veteran Rank increase, including the newly added benefits and vision behind doing so, when we start going into specifics about Imperial City later this month.

This is a PR fail. You drop the bomb of increasing the Veteran Rank cap but we have to wait two weeks for your reasoning? That's two weeks of player rage providing nothing but negative feedback and feeling towards your game.

On an issue as contentious as Veteran Ranks you should have released the information and reasoning at the same time. This just makes you look like amateurs.

Of course the cynic in me just thinks that you didn't predict the outcry and now need time to make up some spin to try to sell the idea.

zos in a nutshell. this post easily wins the entire thread.

smokes

dudes - chill out.

the increase to VR16 is not happening until imperial city is released, which is a major content patch. there will be new things to do to get to VR16. (on top of the huge nerf to XP required to get to V16 and the huge buff to public dungeons, quest XP and craglorn)

if you watched the ESO live from yesterday, you would understand how XP, VR ranks and itemisation (i.e. the numbers on gear) are all very tightly tied together in the core programming of ESO.

until a new system is designed, implemented, tested, re-tested, then tested again, VR ranks aren't being removed. they WILL be removed eventually, but removing the interlinks between XP, VR and itemisation is not a simple "change it to CP instead" switch. it's like trying to unravel a massive ball of 12 colours of wool without any knots.

am i slightly aggrieved about just hitting VR14 and crafting 3 legendaries, which are now gonna be outdated in 3-4 months, yes, a little. but this is an mmo and the endgame will always keep moving. as long as there's plenty of crafting mats along the road to VR16 then everything will be alright

you hear that ZOS? there had best be more decent crafting mats on the road to VR16 or there'll be hell to pay -.-

sadownik

smokes wrote: »

dudes - chill out.

the increase to VR16 is not happening until imperial city is released, which is a major content patch. there will be new things to do to get to VR16. (on top of the huge nerf to XP required to get to V16 and the huge buff to public dungeons, quest XP and craglorn)

if you watched the ESO live from yesterday, you would understand how XP, VR ranks and itemisation (i.e. the numbers on gear) are all very tightly tied together in the core programming of ESO.

until a new system is designed, implemented, tested, re-tested, then tested again, VR ranks aren't being removed. they WILL be removed eventually, but removing the interlinks between XP, VR and itemisation is not a simple "change it to CP instead" switch. it's like trying to unravel a massive ball of 12 colours of wool without any knots.

am i slightly aggrieved about just hitting VR14 and crafting 3 legendaries, which are now gonna be outdated in 3-4 months, yes, a little. but this is an mmo and the endgame will always keep moving. as long as there's plenty of crafting mats along the road to VR16 then everything will be alright

you hear that ZOS? there had best be more decent crafting mats on the road to VR16 or there'll be hell to pay -.-

Some of us were hoping for more innovative approach than "its an mmo etc etc" There are hudnreds of MMOs out there and belive me not everyone of them walks the beaten path. Oh well.

Personofsecrets

smokes wrote: »

am i slightly aggrieved about just hitting VR14 and crafting 3 legendaries, which are now gonna be outdated in 3-4 months, yes, a little. but this is an mmo and the endgame will always keep moving. as long as there's plenty of crafting mats along the road to VR16 then everything will be alright

you hear that ZOS? there had best be more decent crafting mats on the road to VR16 or there'll be hell to pay -.-

this is an mmo, which means zos needs to try new things to stay relevant. bigger numbers isn't meaningful or relevant in 2015.

The only benefit to this system being an mmo system is that some people still haven't obtained the master weapons or undaunted sets that they have been grinding to get for months. At least those players don't have the frustration of having underleveled gear.

Personofsecrets

AngryNord wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

The Craglorn quests are not solo content....

This is Elder Scrolls Online, not Elder Scrolls VI.

the grouping tools would have made me think that this is elder scrolls v

Helluin

I'd trade a cap increase of VR every 4-6 months (with new contents added) instead of the endless progression of Champion system, that is something I consider terrible both for PvE and AvA.

sadownik

Personofsecrets wrote: »

smokes wrote: »

am i slightly aggrieved about just hitting VR14 and crafting 3 legendaries, which are now gonna be outdated in 3-4 months, yes, a little. but this is an mmo and the endgame will always keep moving. as long as there's plenty of crafting mats along the road to VR16 then everything will be alright

you hear that ZOS? there had best be more decent crafting mats on the road to VR16 or there'll be hell to pay -.-

this is an mmo, which means zos needs to try new things to stay relevant. bigger numbers isn't meaningful or relevant in 2015.

Thats the thing though its nothing new. Some even would say its an MMO cliche.

sadownik

Helluin wrote: »

I'd trade a cap increase of VR every 4-6 months (with new contents added) instead of the endless progression of Champion system, that is something I consider terrible both for PvE and AvA.

Well then you got yourself a great deal! ?Perque nos dos amigo?

Personofsecrets

Helluin wrote: »

I'd trade a cap increase of VR every 4-6 months (with new contents added) instead of the endless progression of Champion system, that is something I consider terrible both for PvE and AvA.

This is a pretty good idea. The only qualifier I would add is that gear progression wouldn't equal higher numbers to the same old gear sets.

I'm a big card game player and embrace the idea of new, but not power creep.

Helluin

sadownik wrote: »

Helluin wrote: »

I'd trade a cap increase of VR every 4-6 months (with new contents added) instead of the endless progression of Champion system, that is something I consider terrible both for PvE and AvA.

Well then you got yourself a great deal! ?Perque nos dos amigo?

The reason is simple: or a VR cap increase or Champion system.
These two together make no sense, also because Champion System at the beginning was announced like something to replace VR.
It seems like there is not a clear way or a design choice about progression with both VR increase and Champion System.
Atm this changement seems just something to replace gear and tune more easily the difficulty of new contents, but the discrepancy between two different concepts of progression still stands.

They could work also together but with several tweaks, that I hope they will explain during next weeks.
Otherwise, sorry, but a VR cap increase + the current Champion system is something I don't like.

sadownik

Helluin wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

Helluin wrote: »

I'd trade a cap increase of VR every 4-6 months (with new contents added) instead of the endless progression of Champion system, that is something I consider terrible both for PvE and AvA.

Well then you got yourself a great deal! ?Perque nos dos amigo?

The reason is simple: or a VR cap increase or Champion system.
These two together make no sense, also because Champion System at the beginning was announced like something to replace VR.
It seems there is not a clear way or a design choice about progression with both VR increase and Champion System.
Atm this changement seems just something to replace gear and tune more easily the difficulty of new contents, but the discrepancy between two different concepts of progressions still stands.

Oh i absolutly agree, mind you i thought i was funny. Not the first time i was wrong.

smokes

because VR and itemisation are intrinsically linked together, it was either a case of

A. delay new content until VR ranks are properly removed.
Or.
B. increase VR ranks when releasing imperial city.
Or.
C. dont increase VR rank but release imperial city with no new gear or crafting mats. which would make it underwhelming and unrewarding, so not a good option, even though it might seem like it to some.

so yea, i'm fine with VR being increased to 16, it's not going to be forever. VR is still going to be removed.

Rhakon

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone,

We'll talk more about the the Veteran Rank increase, including the newly added benefits and vision behind doing so, when we start going into specifics about Imperial City later this month.

later this month we start talking...
Zos had time for new content for almost a year...
when i would announce such big news i would be prepared with all infos about it.

Why should we farm the same sets again, or craft them new and get the tempers again to improve them?

I have a huge collection of items and sets, i does not want to farm and craft the same ones with better stats again.
This is boring and very bad design.

may i interpret all wrong but when it is any other way, @Zos then give the infos!

Start talking!

Olivierko

smokes wrote: »

C. dont increase VR rank but release imperial city with no new gear or crafting mats. which would make it underwhelming and unrewarding, so not a good option, even though it might seem like it to some.

I don't get this argument, why wouldn't it be possible to add new sets at VR14?

If the veteran ranks are going to be removed in the future anyway that means all sets with a requirement of more than level 50 will be adjusted at some level.

SorataArisugawa

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

[...]

The Craglorn quests are not solo content....

They are. You can do them alone exept for a very few we're you need short help. So that should be no problem

sadownik

smokes wrote: »

because VR and itemisation are intrinsically linked together, it was either a case of

A. delay new content until VR ranks are properly removed.
Or.
B. increase VR ranks when releasing imperial city.
Or.
C. dont increase VR rank but release imperial city with no new gear or crafting mats. which would make it underwhelming and unrewarding, so not a good option, even though it might seem like it to some.

so yea, i'm fine with VR being increased to 16, it's not going to be forever. VR is still going to be removed.

Or perhaps
a. deliver "new content" that was shown to people on guild summit and was decribed as practicly finished while properly removing vr ranks.
b. deliver "new content" and increase vr ranks further spliting player base both in attitude towards vr system and progression at the same time making it even harder to remove it in future if not for technical reasons then most certainly because of group of vocal players who deem their vr ranks as an archevement worthy noting in annals.

Personofsecrets

sadownik wrote: »

smokes wrote: »

because VR and itemisation are intrinsically linked together, it was either a case of

A. delay new content until VR ranks are properly removed.
Or.
B. increase VR ranks when releasing imperial city.
Or.
C. dont increase VR rank but release imperial city with no new gear or crafting mats. which would make it underwhelming and unrewarding, so not a good option, even though it might seem like it to some.

so yea, i'm fine with VR being increased to 16, it's not going to be forever. VR is still going to be removed.

Or perhaps
a. deliver "new content" that was shown to people on guild summit and was decribed as practicly finished while properly removing vr ranks.
b. deliver "new content" and increase vr ranks further spliting player base both in attitude towards vr system and progression at the same time making it even harder to remove it in future if not for technical reasons then most certainly because of group of vocal players who deem their vr ranks as an archevement worthy noting in annals.

thank you for not buying the phony idea that no new items could be released in the game ever again without them being v16.

Personofsecrets

Olivierko wrote: »

smokes wrote: »

C. dont increase VR rank but release imperial city with no new gear or crafting mats. which would make it underwhelming and unrewarding, so not a good option, even though it might seem like it to some.

I don't get this argument, why wouldn't it be possible to add new sets at VR14?

If the veteran ranks are going to be removed in the future anyway that means all sets with a requirement of more than level 50 will be adjusted at some level.

because da devs say it be impossible I tell ya!

sadownik

Personofsecrets wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

smokes wrote: »

because VR and itemisation are intrinsically linked together, it was either a case of

A. delay new content until VR ranks are properly removed.
Or.
B. increase VR ranks when releasing imperial city.
Or.
C. dont increase VR rank but release imperial city with no new gear or crafting mats. which would make it underwhelming and unrewarding, so not a good option, even though it might seem like it to some.

so yea, i'm fine with VR being increased to 16, it's not going to be forever. VR is still going to be removed.

Or perhaps
a. deliver "new content" that was shown to people on guild summit and was decribed as practicly finished while properly removing vr ranks.
b. deliver "new content" and increase vr ranks further spliting player base both in attitude towards vr system and progression at the same time making it even harder to remove it in future if not for technical reasons then most certainly because of group of vocal players who deem their vr ranks as an archevement worthy noting in annals.

thank you for not buying the phony idea that no new items could be released in the game ever again without them being v16.

Well its the easiest way. Copypasta from 100 other average MMOs. Though that game with ES in the name has higher standards, perhaps even try something innovative (gasp). So far ESO differs itself from other MMOs not by what it does diffently but by what it doesnt do at all.

smokes

sadownik wrote: »

Or perhaps
a. deliver "new content" that was shown to people on guild summit and was decribed as practicly finished while properly removing vr ranks.
b. deliver "new content" and increase vr ranks further spliting player base both in attitude towards vr system and progression at the same time making it even harder to remove it in future if not for technical reasons then most certainly because of group of vocal players who deem their vr ranks as an archevement worthy noting in annals.

any new content with any new gear is tied to the itemisation system - the itemisation system is tied to the VR system.

you therefore cannot release new content with new gear without increasing the VR cap - until such time that the itemisation system is stripped from the VR system. this is not a simple procedure, if it was, don't you think they would've done it by now?

also VR ranks are being massively nerfed in the same patch as this is being released.

when VR ranks are finally removed, all those VR pro's you see as massively far ahead, will still be massively far ahead both in champion points and itemisation.

Personofsecrets

>Face when Smokes is right and we need v16 because of how itemisation system works.
>Face when this is because devs didn't leave enough space in the item code list to add new sets
>Face when lack of space in the item code list is due to the sturdy and charged trait
>Face when devs know how silly they were for causing that issue

Garethjolnir

I for one welcome this. Welcome to MMO's.

sadownik

smokes wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

Or perhaps
a. deliver "new content" that was shown to people on guild summit and was decribed as practicly finished while properly removing vr ranks.
b. deliver "new content" and increase vr ranks further spliting player base both in attitude towards vr system and progression at the same time making it even harder to remove it in future if not for technical reasons then most certainly because of group of vocal players who deem their vr ranks as an archevement worthy noting in annals.

any new content with any new gear is tied to the itemisation system - the itemisation system is tied to the VR system.

you therefore cannot release new content with new gear without increasing the VR cap - until such time that the itemisation system is stripped from the VR system. this is not a simple procedure, if it was, don't you think they would've done it by now?

also VR ranks are being massively nerfed in the same patch as this is being released.

when VR ranks are finally removed, all those VR pro's you see as massively far ahead, will still be massively far ahead both in champion points and itemisation.

1. I do know its not a simple task. But then how it will be more simple in 6 months or 1 year? Surely they have the new system design by now? I mean no self respecting develper would describe removing 1 system while apllying the other system without even concepts for the first part right?
2. Vr ranks are far from beeing massvly nerfed. Where do you take that from? 50% more from few specific cadwell quests that dont make even 20% of overall xp in vet ranks? Public dungeons that give so miniscule xp so adding 100% xp still puts them below any random group of open world mobs? 20% craglon? I have seen xp that is there now and dont see what is changed by 20%added to that. I will be very surprised if the nerf is 15% overall. In my opinion so far its closer to 5%. Hardly massive.

Personofsecrets

Garethjolnir wrote: »

I for one welcome this. Welcome to MMO's.

>Face when masochist can't find any love
>Face when they learn about ESO

sput4ueb17_ESO

Game is dying already in end game with Vr 16 and no content..... that is a headshot - ZOS you did it again

nastuug

smokes wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

Or perhaps
a. deliver "new content" that was shown to people on guild summit and was decribed as practicly finished while properly removing vr ranks.
b. deliver "new content" and increase vr ranks further spliting player base both in attitude towards vr system and progression at the same time making it even harder to remove it in future if not for technical reasons then most certainly because of group of vocal players who deem their vr ranks as an archevement worthy noting in annals.

any new content with any new gear is tied to the itemisation system - the itemisation system is tied to the VR system.

you therefore cannot release new content with new gear without increasing the VR cap - until such time that the itemisation system is stripped from the VR system. this is not a simple procedure, if it was, don't you think they would've done it by now?

also VR ranks are being massively nerfed in the same patch as this is being released.

when VR ranks are finally removed, all those VR pro's you see as massively far ahead, will still be massively far ahead both in champion points and itemisation.

Oreary? And what massive nerf is this you're talking about? The minor 15% reduction in XP needed per VR and the 50% boost in XP per VR quest turn in, right?

When you make a small percentage reduction to a very large number (1MM), and a large percentage increase to a very small number (5k), people will find that this is still a BS grind. A grind that still requires the purchase of derpXP scrolls in order to grind the VR within a reasonable amount of time...