Animation Canceling good for the game?

LilySix

On PS4 it changes nothing to your DPS.....

Shunravi

Yes, it's good for the game.

Animation canceling is the easiest and cheapest way for anyone to increase their performance. You dont need gear or materials. You dont need to buy anything. Its readily available at the start of the game, though theres no tutorial. But its easy enough to discover organically or through a guide.

Shunravi

Yes, it's good for the game.

LilySix wrote: »

On PS4 it changes nothing to your DPS.....

What exactly did you test? On the other post you said something about light attacks being faster. Animation canceling doesnt make light attacks faster. They are on a global cooldown. Ac places light attacks between skills.

Xvorg

No, it's bad for the game

Shunravi wrote: »

Animation canceling is the easiest and cheapest way for anyone to increase their performance. You dont need gear or materials. You dont need to buy anything. Its readily available at the start of the game, though theres no tutorial. But its easy enough to discover organically or through a guide.

If it is done through memory, muscles and mind, I could support it. f it is done with the help of some supernatural spell (macros), it should go

Shunravi

Yes, it's good for the game.

Xvorg wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Animation canceling is the easiest and cheapest way for anyone to increase their performance. You dont need gear or materials. You dont need to buy anything. Its readily available at the start of the game, though theres no tutorial. But its easy enough to discover organically or through a guide.

If it is done through memory, muscles and mind, I could support it. f it is done with the help of some supernatural spell (macros), it should go

If you need macros to do it, you arent doing it right.

Xvorg

No, it's bad for the game

Shunravi wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Animation canceling is the easiest and cheapest way for anyone to increase their performance. You dont need gear or materials. You dont need to buy anything. Its readily available at the start of the game, though theres no tutorial. But its easy enough to discover organically or through a guide.

If it is done through memory, muscles and mind, I could support it. f it is done with the help of some supernatural spell (macros), it should go

If you need macros to do it, you arent doing it right.

I don't need macros to do it, but more than a couple guys do it that way.

So how do we address that?

LilySix

Yes we've tested it with the number one pyro dk on the eu. On ps4 the only good thing about AC is that you're blocking all the time (which is very nice for trials as you prevent damages). But you don't get more dps doing that. THAT IS SURE.

What i'm saying about light attacks is that to go faster you have to do them at the right time. Not that they AC well. The better AC you can do is switch bars.

Even if you don't see it the animation the time that it last unable you to do something else.

Sorry if my english is bad xD

Kaosan

No, it's bad for the game

one server with AC ... and one server -for the elder men like me- without AC
*g
at least a campaign without... plz,
Cyrodiil is empty because of newbies leaving frustrated, when knowning nothing about AC
For a long time is was wondering "wow, they throw a lot of attacks in a short time, much moar than i can"

asneakybanana

Yes, it's good for the game.

The second weaving dies is the second the game dies for me. Weaving is what really sets eso apart from a lot of the other mmos. It helps to make combat so much more fluid so youre not just only sitting there spamming 1 button over and over again. I understand that it can be a daunting challenge for newer players to the game as an additional layer to learn but in reality it is fairly easy and you can pick it up quick if you work at it.

DHale

Yes, it's good for the game.

It is good for good players and it is good for bad players to incentivize them to get better.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Yes, it's good for the game.

LOUD NOISES, AC IS CHEATING, EVERYBODY CHEATS THAT PULLS MORE DPS THAN ME, BLAH BLAH BLAH. L2FP!!!

Without AC, combat in this game would be painfully slow and void of any skill. You dont need macros to AC. Heck, I have messed with a LA macro for testing purposes. Maybe I suck at writing macros, but I constantly get more LAs and higher DPS on parses without them. Macros are a terrible idea in an actual raid setting. They game just doesn't run that smooth and you need to be able to react on the fly.

leepalmer95

Yes, it's good for the game.

Can we stop necro'ing this thread?

AC is here to stay, use it or don't.

clocksstoppe

No, it's bad for the game

asneakybanana wrote: »

It helps to make combat so much more fluid so youre not just only sitting there spamming 1 button over and over again.

As opposed to spamming 1 button and spamming click over and over again? Let's be serious here, weaving has such a low skill floor it might as well get removed, it adds nothing to the experience.

Olupajmibanan

Yes, it's good for the game.

What would light attacks stand for if AC is about to be removed?

FearlessOne_2014

Razzak wrote: »

Molsondry wrote: »

FYI I just tried a macroing program , just to see, HAHAHA. Its humanly impossible to recreate what its does lol.

It littlerally fire my force pulse and animation cancel into medium weaving within .2 second before casting another force pulse .3 second later. I get 4 attack per second where if animation canceling wouldnt exist I would do 1 attack

However I try hard what so ever I do I cant reproduce it manually , I only get 2 attack per second manualy....Its insanly broken..

I understand now how I got killed in cyro with 24k health and about 18k worth shield within 1 second and only 2 attack would appear in my death recap. Was so quick the recap page didnt register the other atack. I only see 10k critical rush and 8k wrecking blow. thats not even my full health bar lol.

Broken as hell

I agree and I think using macroing programs or hardware could become the norm once players learn how easy it is to do it, especially since there is no indication of ZOS being able to identify those that are macroing and thus prevent them from doing it.
But I guess even that takes some sort of skill. Too bad it's a skill that monkey could be taught to use.

Pretty much. We are confirmed that Marcoing Ani-Cancel is the clear META. Adapt or die I have few people who I used to PvP with that brag about ganking people with macros. So yeah it's been this way for the longest. Again you can either adapt and laugh at it. Keep whining about it and die to these players. Or you can just uninstall the game.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Yes, it's good for the game.

Stop asking! It's been 3 ******* years! If you haven't learned how to do it to benefit you it's YOUR fault. There isn't some magic spell or hack that lets only certain people do it! Get over it already. It's like a wife who won't forget the one time you didn't do the lawn or something. They remember EVERYTHING and bring it up 3 years later during a fight about tacos.....

CrazyWolf712

No, it's bad for the game

I say no. There is no reason that a player should be able to heal and dodge an attack while they are stunned on the ground! I see it all the time in duels and it's quite frustrating. And every time, I feel like screaming, "How do you miss a sleeping Snorlax?!"

Sabbathius

No, it's bad for the game

I would say it's very bad for the game.

For one, it looks very silly. Character looks like he's having a seizure or a stroke, jerky movements, animations cut short become nonsensical. Makes the game look very amateurish, even though uncut animations are very nice.

Secondly, it makes no logical sense. Why developers would spend so much time creating new abilities with unique animations, only to allow players to skip them? Worse, the players are supposed to *strive* to skip them as much as possible, to perform optimally. That's pretty dim.

Third and final reason is that it leads to macroing. Yes, it can be done by hand, but it can be done faster and mistake-free with macros. I'm not talking complex scripts, but rather simple LA->Ability->Delay->Block macro for every Ability you have on your bar. Makes light weaving 100% mistake-free and pumps up your DPS considerably. Can be done with software built into your mouse or keyboard. And there's a huge difference between someone who doesn't macro at all, or someone who uses macros all the time. Should these people be banned? Yes. Will they? No, unless they do something incredibly public or egregious. There's full bots running around Grahtwood right now, and nothing's happening to them.

With all these issues, it would be very beneficial to the game to modify abilities so that the effect happens only if the animation is completed. If it is cut short, and it should still be allowed to cut abilities short, with things like dodge, block and swap, you just get no effect.

Flameheart

No, it's bad for the game

Beating the dead horse again while necroing a thread ?

It must be definitely some sort of a sexual thing. How those threads rise up before major patch and expansion release days in sheer hope that ZoS might have a look on that topic as they are already currently in nerf mood.

I will tell you the result -> it won't happen, it's absolutely no new feature in MMOs - others have similar systems - and because ZoS won't ever be taken serious if they do.

PS: No idea where my vote comes from, but my opinion is definitely that it is good for the game.

Arenguros

No, it's bad for the game

This thread will come back as long as this is a problem - and it is.
With Morrowind LAs will deal even more damage, which means perfect weaving / cancelling will be even more of a dps increase. The same thing is true for the change to grim focus, as it can now be fired more than once.

If ZOS is ever trying to sell us different animations in the crown store, they want to get rid of AC first.

It wouldn't even be a big thing - just move the "skill fired" ping to the end of the animation (or a time length equal to it) -
bam you're done.
Yeah, there are a handful of channeled skills that are problematic, but 90% of the skills will be fine with that.

There won't be more traffic.
You can still cancel by switching bars / bashing, the ability/attack just won't fire.

Qbiken

No, it's bad for the game

Molsondry wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

uberkull wrote: »

Molsondry wrote: »

ok you guys dont understand why its so broken and need to be fixed lol ? Ill quote myself

Molsondry wrote: »

Also wanted to add that this system is REALLY BAD for pvp. Can you imagine the fluctuation into sent packet witht his in a 40v40 pvp battle wow......What do you think its does to the server when a player try to send 5 packets at the same time because they just registered 5 attack in 1.5 second because of the animation canceling. He doesnt really like it .. now to this x 40-50 in the same alliance server... That + there antibot system with how everything is on the client side... hahahahahahahahahahahahaha just think 2 second about this? How do you think they lag out the servers? Thanks zenimax for your broken code

I did read this that you posted in another thread. This is part of the reason I put this poll up.

But let's focus on your point. For a MMO client the chatter back and forth is constant. If you packet sniff the network connection of a basic MMO, it's a constant chatter of, lets call them, commands. You really think animation canceling is going to impact server lag? I don't think it's enough to make a difference. You send more packets when you move, staggering back and forth.

No; its not like you are sitting on an idle connection to the game server when you are not hitting an ability. I don't think that could add much to the lag if at all.

And it is because of lag that I do not buy macros doing anything either. A macro cannot do anything outside of what you can do manually. Its just an automation of what you would do and game mechanics will not allow for things to happen as fast as people claim even with a macro without somehow otherwise jacking with the innate cooldown of a smidge over 1 second.

My issue with animation cancelling is that some classes and abilities are much smoother in it and work a lot better with it. Going with just the 2 classes specifically that are not complained about on purpose is you look at DK abilities and Templar abilities. One plays much nicer than the other into the cancels.

Ok so.. Get a 40 men group go in a delve and all start hitting animation canceling macro ansd look what its does...you will see what im talking about. maybe 1 guy doing animation canceling doesn'T jam server but 60x in the same area WHILE MOVING STRIFING DODGING AND BLOCKING


And what to they do to lag ANY SERVER , they DDOS what is DDOS? they send massive amount of packets at the same time. Zos are DDOS themself with the broken codes thats all thats why everytimeyou have 80 + men battle in a keep you get over 5k ms

In this case there are already a massive amount of packet sent to server because of the out going 40 v40 battle you have a fuild amount of packet going for movement block dodge and etc then YOU HAVE THE DDOS ZERG COMING WHEN 40 MEN START TO ANIMATION CANCEL AS THEY ENGAGE COMBAT what does this do? there is already a masive flow of packet send to server, then they just DDOS the server using all animation canceling at the same time sending massive amount of packet within seconds. Think about it?

Put a 1 second gcd on everything execpt special defensive/offensive . Its all gonna be fluid again and I bet you a good part of the lag will be gone

Or the lag is caused by the fact that there´re 40 people in a small area......

Juhasow

Yes, it's good for the game.

Seth_Black wrote: »

No, it's constantly abused by using in macros especially in PvP.
Combos like critical rush + wrecking blow + executioner or ambush + wrecking blow + killers blade for example

tested myself, works every time (but no, not using it)
Yes, it's form of cheating (gives unfair advantage over other players)

Animation canceling should work ONLY when you cancel skill with BLOCK or interrupt/bash

So You animation cancelled crit rush and wrecking blow ? Teach me master how to animation cancell gap closers or chanelled attacks !

And now for real , problem with macros is way beyond animation cancelling. People would use that even without animation cancelling just to use skills quicker with smaller gaps between. I know that issue from SWTOR where skills had cooldowns and global cooldowns and there was no animation cancelling yet there were "top" players that was using macros. I am all against macros but removing animation cancelling wont solve the problem with them and in worst case can even magnify it.

GiuEliN0

Yes, it's good for the game.

Arenguros wrote: »

This thread will come back as long as this is a problem - and it is.
With Morrowind LAs will deal even more damage, which means perfect weaving / cancelling will be even more of a dps increase. The same thing is true for the change to grim focus, as it can now be fired more than once.

If ZOS is ever trying to sell us different animations in the crown store, they want to get rid of AC first.

It wouldn't even be a big thing - just move the "skill fired" ping to the end of the animation (or a time length equal to it) -
bam you're done.
Yeah, there are a handful of channeled skills that are problematic, but 90% of the skills will be fine with that.

There won't be more traffic.
You can still cancel by switching bars / bashing, the ability/attack just won't fire.

Are u serious? Just learn to do It....
The combat will be really clunky without it...
Stop asking to remove It!
And leave alone the grim focus

darthsithis

AC adds a very fun and active component to the combat. Since not all can be cancelled, its a good thing. Because it allows one to feel like they have an aspect of control and direct impact on the combat, it is a good thing. Because it allows the ultra-competitive to have a deeper layer of gameplay that is skill based it is a good thing. Since all moves have slightly different windows to be cancelled, it makes you learn your class like it was a part of you. And lastly, it is not necessary to complete 90% of the content. Its fun for those who love it (like me), and it is totally fine to not AC as you can do most of the game just fine.

Macros no lol.

almost all games have AC'ing, and people find it immensely rewarding to say cancel genji's LA with a melee attack followed by a lunge. CoD players AC reloads, and even skyrim has AC'ing if you put a sword in the LH and spell in the right (unsheathing is cancelled).

It is great for those who get off on squeezing out the highest DPS possible, feeling like it was more than just the gear and memorizing a rotation that sets them apart.

TheLaughingSwine

No, it's bad for the game

Hello. Let me start off by staying .. yes i animation cancel Lol i like more DPS who wouldn't? So of course i do it.

With that said ... have you guys ever run a trial on a PS4?
I quit doing it a while ago it is a huge laggy mess, i thought if i upgraded my Internets this would solve the problem "it didn't change a darn thing" and because of the laggy mess on screen i couldn't tell if i was doing my animation cancelling (rotations) correctly.

So i practiced my rotations with animation cancelling out side of trials and instead of looking at the screen to see what my character was doing ... i remembered timing ... I would set into my head press this at this time do that at that time ... and after about 15 or 18 trial runs one day i was looking at the froze screen in front of me thinking "Maybe my ps4 froze maybe the games about to crash?" it didn't.

And i said to my self "What am i doing i know vary little what's going on ... the only reason i know when to attack and when to run is because a team mate say something and the lag is so bad the screen clutter is every where ... this is not fun.

The only reason i took the time to learn animation cancelling was so i can do more dps for my team (Mostly in trials) ... now i still do it when i run daily and normal dungeons but that's has me thinking Zos said animation cancel was something they didn't expect Ok fine... but it's there and players like my self use it ...with the team of people you guys have at your disposal i would think animation cancelling would be improved upon. I took the time to learn and i even tried master to it.

With that said i think 2 things need to done to make this less of a issue
1 improve the way animation cancelling looks and works, right now it looks sloppy and works wonky, like thrown together from a child not something a professional would continue to allow in something that is not only work but also passion. FIX it Zos.

2. After you have improved the sloppy mess that animation cancelling is ... teach it to players let them know it is something they can do in the game... make a small tutorial let your players know that this is a option because as of right now when i found out about it ... it felt like it something hidden...like it wasn't meant for the game... and because of that reason it might be why so many players want it gone..

One last thing just because something pops up in your game that you didn't expect don't mean you don't have to take responsibility for it ... now do something about it.

Thank you for reading

MehrunesFlagon

Yes, it's good for the game.

To those that say it's bad for the game L2P.

TheLaughingSwine

No, it's bad for the game

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

To those that say it's bad for the game L2P.

Hmm did you read what i said? ... AC feels like a hidden mechanic ... no tutorial ... ... ...

leepalmer95

Yes, it's good for the game.

TheLaughingSwine wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

To those that say it's bad for the game L2P.

Hmm did you read what i said? ... AC feels like a hidden mechanic ... no tutorial ... ... ...

Can we just let these threads die pls.


Zos said AC is here to stay like a year ago, that door is closed, locked and has rusted away.

TheLaughingSwine

No, it's bad for the game

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TheLaughingSwine wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

To those that say it's bad for the game L2P.

Hmm did you read what i said? ... AC feels like a hidden mechanic ... no tutorial ... ... ...

Can we just let these threads die pls.


Zos said AC is here to stay like a year ago, that door is closed, locked and has rusted away.

I don't want AC to leave i want it improved ... i really didn't want to start a new thread on this so i thought i would use this one ... I'm not sure if that was the right idea ... LOL it feels like i should of so people know what i am talking about. opps!

TheLaughingSwine

No, it's bad for the game

TheLaughingSwine wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TheLaughingSwine wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

To those that say it's bad for the game L2P.

Hmm did you read what i said? ... AC feels like a hidden mechanic ... no tutorial ... ... ...

Can we just let these threads die pls.


Zos said AC is here to stay like a year ago, that door is closed, locked and has rusted away.

I don't want AC to leave i want it improved.

When i voted for it's bad for the game what i really meant the way that it is in the game is bad for the game.... i really didn't want to start a new thread on this so i thought i would use this one ... I'm not sure if that was the right idea ... LOL it feels like i should of so people know what i am talking about. opps!