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Animation Canceling good for the game?
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Uberkull✭✭✭✭✭I never knew this existedSurely now that Zos has adopted the "we can't fix it so now it's a feature" approach, we should get a tutorial for every player. Perhaps just after escaping the Wailing Prison the Prophet could explain this dark magic called animation cancelling where only the soulless one can actually warp time and cancel an action by doing another action but still manage to damage his foes for full damage!
Ridiculous.
Exactly!! My gawd...someone gets it.
If ZOS said this was a 'unintended' feature, but their not fixing it, then it's a feature that needs to be advertised. Put it on the box. 'Awesome magical attacks that don't require you to even finish your prior attack! In fact, you won't even see any animations, you are all stick figures that wave your arms around with 8 bit magic balls come firing out of your face.'
Please buy our game.▬ஜ Seeds of War, Piles of Skulls ஜ▬
▬▬▬ஜ twitch.tv/uberkull ஜ▬▬▬4 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes, it's good for the game.Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Emma_Eunjung wrote: »Animation cancelling is a necessary by-product of ESO's snappy, real-time combat. Here are the alternatives:
1) Slow down combat with a forced cooldown through the entire length of each and every animation.
2) Display all animations for their entire length, allowing animations to overlap.
3) Get rid of all animations and make every attack instant.
4) Get out your pencil and paper... Dungeons & Dragons is back, baby!
Options 1, 2 and 3 would ruin ESO. I suggest you try Option 4... or maybe just stop whining and DEAL WITH IT.
Or if you cancel the animation you cancel the attack.
Exactly. Cancelling the attack that triggered the animation would eliminate the problem.
But that irrelevant since the developers have acknowledged animation canceling is a legitimate part of game play.
It's easy to do. You can do it too.
I know I can do, that's not the point. The issue is that with macros you can create a simple "push to instantly kill anything" button. Which people are in fact doing, which I know beyond even the slightest doubt, because I have had conversations with people as to exactly how they do it. Moreover, there are discussions on how to accomplish this on ESO themed forums other than this one. Pvp in Cyrodiil has gotten to the point that if you don't use a macro with a cancelling weave you are essentially just providing yourself as AP fodder for your enemies.
And it's Zos' responsibility to determine and end macro use. Your arguing the wrong thing. As long as animation canceling is permitted by omission as it currently is then macro players will be faster and better than you regardless of animation canceling or not. Even you are saying the macros are the problem but are arguing they change something else.
The point of the thread is not whether or not it's allowed, or if it has ZOS's approval, it was if it was good for the game. I voted no, it's not good for the game, and am providing macroing kills in PvP as an example of how it is not good for the game. Respectfully, I am in fact arguing correctly to defend my position. Please follow the logic, and I am again, with respect, laying it out for anyone reading to understand. Animation cancelling is not good for the game because it creates a situation where players can easily create macros that can accomplish multiple hits in a succession far more rapidly than a human, even the most skilled human, could possibly accomplish. This has lead to players creating macros on their programmable gaming keyboards that allow them to have "push to instantly kill anything" buttons. This is happening, it is not a matter of lag, or of other players learning to play. I know for a fact it happens. This is why animation cancelling is not good for the game.
And I am correctly and accurately stating that macros are the issue and will continually be the issue regardless. That this is a backwards argument against animation canceling that is virtually pointless and absurd as long as macro attacks can continue. It's almost as though those against animation canceling cannot see he forest for the trees.
It's not a backward argument because if animation cancelling were not allowed, then macros could not be used to create a rapid succession of attacks faster than a human could possibly click. I'm sorry that the logic of this is not able to be followed by those reading this.
It's very backwards and contains only enough logic to hide from most that you are permitting the cheaters to use macros while dumbing the game down for all so the cheaters get less advantage but still get advantage in the game.
There are means to detect macro use. It's really not all tha complicated. In fact, it's not terribly different than the bot use in that it requires Zos to decide they want do change that behavior.
Then again, if Zos continues to permit cheating in abstaining from action then we may need to dumb the game down so the cheaters gain less advantage, yet still gain some advantage.
I think before attempting to cite terms applied to formal logic, people should actually study and understand formal logic. This discussion has become pointless in that absence.
Thank you. Exactly the point I am making.1 -
jkemmery✭✭✭✭No, it's bad for the gameSurely now that Zos has adopted the "we can't fix it so now it's a feature" approach, we should get a tutorial for every player. Perhaps just after escaping the Wailing Prison the Prophet could explain this dark magic called animation cancelling where only the soulless one can actually warp time and cancel an action by doing another action but still manage to damage his foes for full damage!
Ridiculous.
Exactly!! My gawd...someone gets it.
If ZOS said this was a 'unintended' feature, but their not fixing it, then it's a feature that needs to be advertised. Put it on the box. 'Awesome magical attacks that don't require you to even finish your prior attack! In fact, you won't even see any animations, you are all stick figures that wave your arms around with 8 bit magic balls come firing out of your face.'
Please buy our game.
LMAO! Spot on!0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes, it's good for the game.Surely now that Zos has adopted the "we can't fix it so now it's a feature" approach, we should get a tutorial for every player. Perhaps just after escaping the Wailing Prison the Prophet could explain this dark magic called animation cancelling where only the soulless one can actually warp time and cancel an action by doing another action but still manage to damage his foes for full damage!
Ridiculous.
Exactly!! My gawd...someone gets it.
If ZOS said this was a 'unintended' feature, but their not fixing it, then it's a feature that needs to be advertised. Put it on the box. 'Awesome magical attacks that don't require you to even finish your prior attack! In fact, you won't even see any animations, you are all stick figures that wave your arms around with 8 bit magic balls come firing out of your face.'
Please buy our game.
Good to see an attempt at humor.0 -
Uberkull✭✭✭✭✭I never knew this existedGiles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Surely now that Zos has adopted the "we can't fix it so now it's a feature" approach, we should get a tutorial for every player. Perhaps just after escaping the Wailing Prison the Prophet could explain this dark magic called animation cancelling where only the soulless one can actually warp time and cancel an action by doing another action but still manage to damage his foes for full damage!
Ridiculous.
They didn't adopt that approach. It's easy to fix but dumbs down the game.
Here's the logic. ZOS can't afford to ban everyone using a PC gaming keyboard that all come with custom software that allows for macroing, Nor can they afford to ban everyone that uses PC gaming mice that have driver software that include macroing.
Hello Razer
They'll have to ban their entire customer base. A buy to play MMO without a mandatory sub can't afford that. Even if you don't use the macro software, the driver installs it by default and that is what ZOS detects.
So if you do this 'easy fix' as you put it, you avoid having to police macroing and banning your entire player base.▬ஜ Seeds of War, Piles of Skulls ஜ▬
▬▬▬ஜ twitch.tv/uberkull ஜ▬▬▬1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes, it's good for the game.Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Surely now that Zos has adopted the "we can't fix it so now it's a feature" approach, we should get a tutorial for every player. Perhaps just after escaping the Wailing Prison the Prophet could explain this dark magic called animation cancelling where only the soulless one can actually warp time and cancel an action by doing another action but still manage to damage his foes for full damage!
Ridiculous.
They didn't adopt that approach. It's easy to fix but dumbs down the game.
Here's the logic. ZOS can't afford to ban everyone using a PC gaming keyboard that all come with custom software that allows for macroing, Nor can they afford to ban everyone that uses PC gaming mice that have driver software that include macroing.
Hello Razer
They'll have to ban their entire customer base. A buy to play MMO without a mandatory sub can't afford that. Even if you don't use the macro software, the driver installs it by default and that is what ZOS detects.
So if you do this 'easy fix' as you put it, you avoid having to police macroing and banning your entire player base.
Patently false and absurd. There are means they can impliment to help them detect macro use. However, being the comments you just made I am not certain I care to continue this discussion and waste my time.Edited by idk on May 28, 2015 8:54PM0 -
jkemmery✭✭✭✭No, it's bad for the gameGiles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Surely now that Zos has adopted the "we can't fix it so now it's a feature" approach, we should get a tutorial for every player. Perhaps just after escaping the Wailing Prison the Prophet could explain this dark magic called animation cancelling where only the soulless one can actually warp time and cancel an action by doing another action but still manage to damage his foes for full damage!
Ridiculous.
They didn't adopt that approach. It's easy to fix but dumbs down the game.
Here's the logic. ZOS can't afford to ban everyone using a PC gaming keyboard that all come with custom software that allows for macroing, Nor can they afford to ban everyone that uses PC gaming mice that have driver software that include macroing.
Hello Razer
They'll have to ban their entire customer base. A buy to play MMO without a mandatory sub can't afford that. Even if you don't use the macro software, the driver installs it by default and that is what ZOS detects.
So if you do this 'easy fix' as you put it, you avoid having to police macroing and banning your entire player base.
Moreover, using macros in the absence of the animation cancelling "feature" would not necessarily involve cheating. For instance, if you have your rapid maneuver set on one bar, but not the other, creating a macro to mount your horse and change to the weapon slot that does have rapids allows you to always ensure your rapids are there for you when you need them. Or macroing the "E" and "R" combination to deconstruct an entirre stack of weapons. There are in fact many useful ways that macros can enhance the game for users, and in the absence of the animation cancelling cannot be used to create cheat buttons.0 -
jkemmery✭✭✭✭No, it's bad for the gameGiles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Surely now that Zos has adopted the "we can't fix it so now it's a feature" approach, we should get a tutorial for every player. Perhaps just after escaping the Wailing Prison the Prophet could explain this dark magic called animation cancelling where only the soulless one can actually warp time and cancel an action by doing another action but still manage to damage his foes for full damage!
Ridiculous.
They didn't adopt that approach. It's easy to fix but dumbs down the game.
Here's the logic. ZOS can't afford to ban everyone using a PC gaming keyboard that all come with custom software that allows for macroing, Nor can they afford to ban everyone that uses PC gaming mice that have driver software that include macroing.
Hello Razer
They'll have to ban their entire customer base. A buy to play MMO without a mandatory sub can't afford that. Even if you don't use the macro software, the driver installs it by default and that is what ZOS detects.
So if you do this 'easy fix' as you put it, you avoid having to police macroing and banning your entire player base.
Patently false and absurd. There are means they can impliment to help them detect macro use. However, being the comments you just made I am not certain I care to continue this discussion and waste my time.
@Giles.floydub17_ESO will one day look back at this thread and realize the errors in his logic, I'm sure.0 -
Uberkull✭✭✭✭✭I never knew this existedGiles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Surely now that Zos has adopted the "we can't fix it so now it's a feature" approach, we should get a tutorial for every player. Perhaps just after escaping the Wailing Prison the Prophet could explain this dark magic called animation cancelling where only the soulless one can actually warp time and cancel an action by doing another action but still manage to damage his foes for full damage!
Ridiculous.
They didn't adopt that approach. It's easy to fix but dumbs down the game.
Here's the logic. ZOS can't afford to ban everyone using a PC gaming keyboard that all come with custom software that allows for macroing, Nor can they afford to ban everyone that uses PC gaming mice that have driver software that include macroing.
Hello Razer
They'll have to ban their entire customer base. A buy to play MMO without a mandatory sub can't afford that. Even if you don't use the macro software, the driver installs it by default and that is what ZOS detects.
So if you do this 'easy fix' as you put it, you avoid having to police macroing and banning your entire player base.
Patently false and absurd.
That's the best you can do? Tell me, do you think they are going to hire MORE GMs now to monitor the game? lol...yea, not gonna happen. They will work with a skeleton crew now that it's not mandatory sub.
So this leaves it to the Launcher detecting common macro processes running on the PC. It detects Synapse, for example, and allows it? Cool, now you have macroing available to everyone who buys a very popular gaming hardware brand.
No bans take place, cause then you are telling customers. Can't use that hardware for our game.
▬ஜ Seeds of War, Piles of Skulls ஜ▬
▬▬▬ஜ twitch.tv/uberkull ஜ▬▬▬0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes, it's good for the game.Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Surely now that Zos has adopted the "we can't fix it so now it's a feature" approach, we should get a tutorial for every player. Perhaps just after escaping the Wailing Prison the Prophet could explain this dark magic called animation cancelling where only the soulless one can actually warp time and cancel an action by doing another action but still manage to damage his foes for full damage!
Ridiculous.
They didn't adopt that approach. It's easy to fix but dumbs down the game.
Here's the logic. ZOS can't afford to ban everyone using a PC gaming keyboard that all come with custom software that allows for macroing, Nor can they afford to ban everyone that uses PC gaming mice that have driver software that include macroing.
Hello Razer
They'll have to ban their entire customer base. A buy to play MMO without a mandatory sub can't afford that. Even if you don't use the macro software, the driver installs it by default and that is what ZOS detects.
So if you do this 'easy fix' as you put it, you avoid having to police macroing and banning your entire player base.
Patently false and absurd. There are means they can impliment to help them detect macro use. However, being the comments you just made I am not certain I care to continue this discussion and waste my time.
@Giles.floydub17_ESO will one day look back at this thread and realize the errors in his logic, I'm sure.
Don't answer the foolish arguments of fools, or you will become as foolish as they are
I must leave this thread as. Am feeling the effects of this conversation.0 -
nastuug✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, it's good for the game.Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Surely now that Zos has adopted the "we can't fix it so now it's a feature" approach, we should get a tutorial for every player. Perhaps just after escaping the Wailing Prison the Prophet could explain this dark magic called animation cancelling where only the soulless one can actually warp time and cancel an action by doing another action but still manage to damage his foes for full damage!
Ridiculous.
They didn't adopt that approach. It's easy to fix but dumbs down the game.
Here's the logic. ZOS can't afford to ban everyone using a PC gaming keyboard that all come with custom software that allows for macroing, Nor can they afford to ban everyone that uses PC gaming mice that have driver software that include macroing.
Hello Razer
They'll have to ban their entire customer base. A buy to play MMO without a mandatory sub can't afford that. Even if you don't use the macro software, the driver installs it by default and that is what ZOS detects.
So if you do this 'easy fix' as you put it, you avoid having to police macroing and banning your entire player base.
Macro software exists outside the realms of keyboard/mouse software from gaming peripherals, fyi. Things like Macro Scheduler have been around for at least 15 years. Very easy to learn to write the most basic of basic scripts. This could be something as simple as "label-->wait-->press-->wait--goto:label" to something that automates workflow processes.
Additionally, if designed correctly, the very basic macros would be quite difficult to detect since they can be used to emulate something a human can do, but by repeatedly/manually cycling the macro. Bind to a key, manually use it when you need. Quit using when you don't need.2 -
Heromofo✭✭✭✭✭I never knew this existedGiles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Surely now that Zos has adopted the "we can't fix it so now it's a feature" approach, we should get a tutorial for every player. Perhaps just after escaping the Wailing Prison the Prophet could explain this dark magic called animation cancelling where only the soulless one can actually warp time and cancel an action by doing another action but still manage to damage his foes for full damage!
Ridiculous.
They didn't adopt that approach. It's easy to fix but dumbs down the game.
Here's the logic. ZOS can't afford to ban everyone using a PC gaming keyboard that all come with custom software that allows for macroing, Nor can they afford to ban everyone that uses PC gaming mice that have driver software that include macroing.
Hello Razer
They'll have to ban their entire customer base. A buy to play MMO without a mandatory sub can't afford that. Even if you don't use the macro software, the driver installs it by default and that is what ZOS detects.
So if you do this 'easy fix' as you put it, you avoid having to police macroing and banning your entire player base.
Macro software exists outside the realms of keyboard/mouse software from gaming peripherals, fyi. Things like Macro Scheduler have been around for at least 15 years. Very easy to learn to write the most basic of basic scripts. This could be something as simple as "label-->wait-->press-->wait--goto:label" to something that automates workflow processes.
Additionally, if designed correctly, the very basic macros would be quite difficult to detect since they can be used to emulate something a human can do, but by repeatedly/manually cycling the macro. Bind to a key, manually use it when you need. Quit using when you don't need.
You just reminded me uuum i should point out on consoles we can buy special controllers to do certain things for us like the COD controller stops recoil and lets you shoot heaps of bullets insanely quick while quick scoping while shooting.
1 -
nastuug✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, it's good for the game.Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Surely now that Zos has adopted the "we can't fix it so now it's a feature" approach, we should get a tutorial for every player. Perhaps just after escaping the Wailing Prison the Prophet could explain this dark magic called animation cancelling where only the soulless one can actually warp time and cancel an action by doing another action but still manage to damage his foes for full damage!
Ridiculous.
They didn't adopt that approach. It's easy to fix but dumbs down the game.
Here's the logic. ZOS can't afford to ban everyone using a PC gaming keyboard that all come with custom software that allows for macroing, Nor can they afford to ban everyone that uses PC gaming mice that have driver software that include macroing.
Hello Razer
They'll have to ban their entire customer base. A buy to play MMO without a mandatory sub can't afford that. Even if you don't use the macro software, the driver installs it by default and that is what ZOS detects.
So if you do this 'easy fix' as you put it, you avoid having to police macroing and banning your entire player base.
Macro software exists outside the realms of keyboard/mouse software from gaming peripherals, fyi. Things like Macro Scheduler have been around for at least 15 years. Very easy to learn to write the most basic of basic scripts. This could be something as simple as "label-->wait-->press-->wait--goto:label" to something that automates workflow processes.
Additionally, if designed correctly, the very basic macros would be quite difficult to detect since they can be used to emulate something a human can do, but by repeatedly/manually cycling the macro. Bind to a key, manually use it when you need. Quit using when you don't need.
You just reminded me uuum i should point out on consoles we can buy special controllers to do certain things for us like the COD controller stops recoil and lets you shoot heaps of bullets insanely quick while quick scoping while shooting.
@Heromofo Dirty, dirty, drunken, Aussie, COD consulllllller...Edited by nastuug on May 28, 2015 9:09PM0 -
Heromofo✭✭✭✭✭I never knew this existedGiles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Surely now that Zos has adopted the "we can't fix it so now it's a feature" approach, we should get a tutorial for every player. Perhaps just after escaping the Wailing Prison the Prophet could explain this dark magic called animation cancelling where only the soulless one can actually warp time and cancel an action by doing another action but still manage to damage his foes for full damage!
Ridiculous.
They didn't adopt that approach. It's easy to fix but dumbs down the game.
Here's the logic. ZOS can't afford to ban everyone using a PC gaming keyboard that all come with custom software that allows for macroing, Nor can they afford to ban everyone that uses PC gaming mice that have driver software that include macroing.
Hello Razer
They'll have to ban their entire customer base. A buy to play MMO without a mandatory sub can't afford that. Even if you don't use the macro software, the driver installs it by default and that is what ZOS detects.
So if you do this 'easy fix' as you put it, you avoid having to police macroing and banning your entire player base.
Macro software exists outside the realms of keyboard/mouse software from gaming peripherals, fyi. Things like Macro Scheduler have been around for at least 15 years. Very easy to learn to write the most basic of basic scripts. This could be something as simple as "label-->wait-->press-->wait--goto:label" to something that automates workflow processes.
Additionally, if designed correctly, the very basic macros would be quite difficult to detect since they can be used to emulate something a human can do, but by repeatedly/manually cycling the macro. Bind to a key, manually use it when you need. Quit using when you don't need.
You just reminded me uuum i should point out on consoles we can buy special controllers to do certain things for us like the COD controller stops recoil and lets you shoot heaps of bullets insanely quick while quick scoping while shooting.
0 -
Heromofo✭✭✭✭✭I never knew this existedGiles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Surely now that Zos has adopted the "we can't fix it so now it's a feature" approach, we should get a tutorial for every player. Perhaps just after escaping the Wailing Prison the Prophet could explain this dark magic called animation cancelling where only the soulless one can actually warp time and cancel an action by doing another action but still manage to damage his foes for full damage!
Ridiculous.
They didn't adopt that approach. It's easy to fix but dumbs down the game.
Here's the logic. ZOS can't afford to ban everyone using a PC gaming keyboard that all come with custom software that allows for macroing, Nor can they afford to ban everyone that uses PC gaming mice that have driver software that include macroing.
Hello Razer
They'll have to ban their entire customer base. A buy to play MMO without a mandatory sub can't afford that. Even if you don't use the macro software, the driver installs it by default and that is what ZOS detects.
So if you do this 'easy fix' as you put it, you avoid having to police macroing and banning your entire player base.
Macro software exists outside the realms of keyboard/mouse software from gaming peripherals, fyi. Things like Macro Scheduler have been around for at least 15 years. Very easy to learn to write the most basic of basic scripts. This could be something as simple as "label-->wait-->press-->wait--goto:label" to something that automates workflow processes.
Additionally, if designed correctly, the very basic macros would be quite difficult to detect since they can be used to emulate something a human can do, but by repeatedly/manually cycling the macro. Bind to a key, manually use it when you need. Quit using when you don't need.
You just reminded me uuum i should point out on consoles we can buy special controllers to do certain things for us like the COD controller stops recoil and lets you shoot heaps of bullets insanely quick while quick scoping while shooting.
@Heromofo Dirty, dirty, drunken, Aussie, COD consulllllller...
Ooo lol i dont like the game i just enjoy trolling it with it.Edited by Heromofo on May 28, 2015 9:13PM0 -
nastuug✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, it's good for the game.Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Surely now that Zos has adopted the "we can't fix it so now it's a feature" approach, we should get a tutorial for every player. Perhaps just after escaping the Wailing Prison the Prophet could explain this dark magic called animation cancelling where only the soulless one can actually warp time and cancel an action by doing another action but still manage to damage his foes for full damage!
Ridiculous.
They didn't adopt that approach. It's easy to fix but dumbs down the game.
Here's the logic. ZOS can't afford to ban everyone using a PC gaming keyboard that all come with custom software that allows for macroing, Nor can they afford to ban everyone that uses PC gaming mice that have driver software that include macroing.
Hello Razer
They'll have to ban their entire customer base. A buy to play MMO without a mandatory sub can't afford that. Even if you don't use the macro software, the driver installs it by default and that is what ZOS detects.
So if you do this 'easy fix' as you put it, you avoid having to police macroing and banning your entire player base.
Macro software exists outside the realms of keyboard/mouse software from gaming peripherals, fyi. Things like Macro Scheduler have been around for at least 15 years. Very easy to learn to write the most basic of basic scripts. This could be something as simple as "label-->wait-->press-->wait--goto:label" to something that automates workflow processes.
Additionally, if designed correctly, the very basic macros would be quite difficult to detect since they can be used to emulate something a human can do, but by repeatedly/manually cycling the macro. Bind to a key, manually use it when you need. Quit using when you don't need.
You just reminded me uuum i should point out on consoles we can buy special controllers to do certain things for us like the COD controller stops recoil and lets you shoot heaps of bullets insanely quick while quick scoping while shooting.
@Heromofo Dirty, dirty, drunken, Aussie, COD consulllllller...
Ooo lol i dont like the game i just enjoy trolling it with it.
Lol nice.0 -
UnverganglichSoul ShrivenNo, it's bad for the gameI feel as if something like this breaks immersion considerably, which while I understand isn't important to a lot of people, it also is akin to bug abuse. Certain spells can be very powerful and as a result you would expect to not be able to cast them instantly. This largely seems to bypass that, which in turn makes them not as situational and you don't have to time and opportune them as much.1
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nastuug✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, it's good for the game.Unverganglich wrote: »I feel as if something like this breaks immersion considerably, which while I understand isn't important to a lot of people, it also is akin to bug abuse. Certain spells can be very powerful and as a result you would expect to not be able to cast them instantly. This largely seems to bypass that, which in turn makes them not as situational and you don't have to time and opportune them as much.
Breaks immersion... that's your logic? I suppose we shouldn't dare apply the same logic to asking how a Guild Trader can hold thousands of items in his small wooden crates? Or perhaps the ability to hold 50 swords in my back pocket to sell off at the next trash vendor?2 -
Uberkull✭✭✭✭✭I never knew this existedGiles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Surely now that Zos has adopted the "we can't fix it so now it's a feature" approach, we should get a tutorial for every player. Perhaps just after escaping the Wailing Prison the Prophet could explain this dark magic called animation cancelling where only the soulless one can actually warp time and cancel an action by doing another action but still manage to damage his foes for full damage!
Ridiculous.
They didn't adopt that approach. It's easy to fix but dumbs down the game.
Here's the logic. ZOS can't afford to ban everyone using a PC gaming keyboard that all come with custom software that allows for macroing, Nor can they afford to ban everyone that uses PC gaming mice that have driver software that include macroing.
Hello Razer
They'll have to ban their entire customer base. A buy to play MMO without a mandatory sub can't afford that. Even if you don't use the macro software, the driver installs it by default and that is what ZOS detects.
So if you do this 'easy fix' as you put it, you avoid having to police macroing and banning your entire player base.
Macro software exists outside the realms of keyboard/mouse software from gaming peripherals, fyi. Things like Macro Scheduler have been around for at least 15 years. Very easy to learn to write the most basic of basic scripts. This could be something as simple as "label-->wait-->press-->wait--goto:label" to something that automates workflow processes.
Additionally, if designed correctly, the very basic macros would be quite difficult to detect since they can be used to emulate something a human can do, but by repeatedly/manually cycling the macro. Bind to a key, manually use it when you need. Quit using when you don't need.
Wow. You missed the point entirely. I'm pointing out very legit and packaged macro software that comes with a major PC hardware vendor's devices. The accompanying driver software has macro capability built in, often without the user even knowing. This means ANYONE could be using software right now that supports macros and don't even know it. So you banning them too?
Far more common to have these hardware drivers that support macros then intentionally going out to download or buy specific macro software.
So again, the point is, players don't have to go out of their way to download special macro software, it's already provided by the vendors...and you can't ban those people for using their hardwares software.▬ஜ Seeds of War, Piles of Skulls ஜ▬
▬▬▬ஜ twitch.tv/uberkull ஜ▬▬▬0 -
Heromofo✭✭✭✭✭I never knew this existedGiles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Surely now that Zos has adopted the "we can't fix it so now it's a feature" approach, we should get a tutorial for every player. Perhaps just after escaping the Wailing Prison the Prophet could explain this dark magic called animation cancelling where only the soulless one can actually warp time and cancel an action by doing another action but still manage to damage his foes for full damage!
Ridiculous.
They didn't adopt that approach. It's easy to fix but dumbs down the game.
Here's the logic. ZOS can't afford to ban everyone using a PC gaming keyboard that all come with custom software that allows for macroing, Nor can they afford to ban everyone that uses PC gaming mice that have driver software that include macroing.
Hello Razer
They'll have to ban their entire customer base. A buy to play MMO without a mandatory sub can't afford that. Even if you don't use the macro software, the driver installs it by default and that is what ZOS detects.
So if you do this 'easy fix' as you put it, you avoid having to police macroing and banning your entire player base.
Macro software exists outside the realms of keyboard/mouse software from gaming peripherals, fyi. Things like Macro Scheduler have been around for at least 15 years. Very easy to learn to write the most basic of basic scripts. This could be something as simple as "label-->wait-->press-->wait--goto:label" to something that automates workflow processes.
Additionally, if designed correctly, the very basic macros would be quite difficult to detect since they can be used to emulate something a human can do, but by repeatedly/manually cycling the macro. Bind to a key, manually use it when you need. Quit using when you don't need.
Wow. You missed the point entirely. I'm pointing out very legit and packaged macro software that comes with a major PC hardware vendor's devices. The accompanying driver software has macro capability built in, often without the user even knowing. This means ANYONE could be using software right now that supports macros and don't even know it. So you banning them too?
Far more common to have these hardware drivers that support macros then intentionally going out to download or buy specific macro software.
So again, the point is, players don't have to go out of their way to download special macro software, it's already provided by the vendors...and you can't ban those people for using their hardwares software.
Another thing to point out my keyboard has an led screen buttons that maps 1-9 macros even comes with a tutorial if that helps.
Wait rofl so does my mouse if bindings help wait if i bind attack 1 and 2 to my mouse and then use my macro to do that as well then if i was to click both at the same time.
Is that cheating?0 -
nastuug✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, it's good for the game.Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Surely now that Zos has adopted the "we can't fix it so now it's a feature" approach, we should get a tutorial for every player. Perhaps just after escaping the Wailing Prison the Prophet could explain this dark magic called animation cancelling where only the soulless one can actually warp time and cancel an action by doing another action but still manage to damage his foes for full damage!
Ridiculous.
They didn't adopt that approach. It's easy to fix but dumbs down the game.
Here's the logic. ZOS can't afford to ban everyone using a PC gaming keyboard that all come with custom software that allows for macroing, Nor can they afford to ban everyone that uses PC gaming mice that have driver software that include macroing.
Hello Razer
They'll have to ban their entire customer base. A buy to play MMO without a mandatory sub can't afford that. Even if you don't use the macro software, the driver installs it by default and that is what ZOS detects.
So if you do this 'easy fix' as you put it, you avoid having to police macroing and banning your entire player base.
Macro software exists outside the realms of keyboard/mouse software from gaming peripherals, fyi. Things like Macro Scheduler have been around for at least 15 years. Very easy to learn to write the most basic of basic scripts. This could be something as simple as "label-->wait-->press-->wait--goto:label" to something that automates workflow processes.
Additionally, if designed correctly, the very basic macros would be quite difficult to detect since they can be used to emulate something a human can do, but by repeatedly/manually cycling the macro. Bind to a key, manually use it when you need. Quit using when you don't need.
Wow. You missed the point entirely. I'm pointing out very legit and packaged macro software that comes with a major PC hardware vendor's devices. The accompanying driver software has macro capability built in, often without the user even knowing. This means ANYONE could be using software right now that supports macros and don't even know it. So you banning them too?
Far more common to have these hardware drivers that support macros then intentionally going out to download or buy specific macro software.
So again, the point is, players don't have to go out of their way to download special macro software, it's already provided by the vendors...and you can't ban those people for using their hardwares software.
Sorry @uberkull . I didn't really mean for that to sound as dickish as it sounded. Was meant for more of a general informative post.
I fully agree with you. I'm running Razer Synapse 2.0 with a Blackwidow Chroma keyboard/mouse.0 -
Uberkull✭✭✭✭✭I never knew this existedGiles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Surely now that Zos has adopted the "we can't fix it so now it's a feature" approach, we should get a tutorial for every player. Perhaps just after escaping the Wailing Prison the Prophet could explain this dark magic called animation cancelling where only the soulless one can actually warp time and cancel an action by doing another action but still manage to damage his foes for full damage!
Ridiculous.
They didn't adopt that approach. It's easy to fix but dumbs down the game.
Here's the logic. ZOS can't afford to ban everyone using a PC gaming keyboard that all come with custom software that allows for macroing, Nor can they afford to ban everyone that uses PC gaming mice that have driver software that include macroing.
Hello Razer
They'll have to ban their entire customer base. A buy to play MMO without a mandatory sub can't afford that. Even if you don't use the macro software, the driver installs it by default and that is what ZOS detects.
So if you do this 'easy fix' as you put it, you avoid having to police macroing and banning your entire player base.
Macro software exists outside the realms of keyboard/mouse software from gaming peripherals, fyi. Things like Macro Scheduler have been around for at least 15 years. Very easy to learn to write the most basic of basic scripts. This could be something as simple as "label-->wait-->press-->wait--goto:label" to something that automates workflow processes.
Additionally, if designed correctly, the very basic macros would be quite difficult to detect since they can be used to emulate something a human can do, but by repeatedly/manually cycling the macro. Bind to a key, manually use it when you need. Quit using when you don't need.
Wow. You missed the point entirely. I'm pointing out very legit and packaged macro software that comes with a major PC hardware vendor's devices. The accompanying driver software has macro capability built in, often without the user even knowing. This means ANYONE could be using software right now that supports macros and don't even know it. So you banning them too?
Far more common to have these hardware drivers that support macros then intentionally going out to download or buy specific macro software.
So again, the point is, players don't have to go out of their way to download special macro software, it's already provided by the vendors...and you can't ban those people for using their hardwares software.
Another thing to point out my keyboard has an led screen buttons that maps 1-9 macros even comes with a tutorial if that helps.
Wait rofl so does my mouse if bindings help wait if i bind attack 1 and 2 to my mouse and then use my macro to do that as well then if i was to click both at the same time.
Is that cheating?
Nah, cheating? Cmon. You're just using that what came with your spiffy hardware. Wait....what if we bind attacks in rotation. Sure...lets do that...
<Nerd mode on>
1) Map left mouse light attack, then alternate that with presses of each 1-5 instant skills and bind it all to one of the 'extra buttons' on your mouse, normally located at your thumb position. <snort, drool, fart >
2) Test and make sure you don't run out of stamina/magicka. < eek, whizz, grrr >
3) Add delays as needed to optimize < pant, pant, muhahahahahahaha >
4) Map another extra mouse button that moves you forward. < faster, faster, ahhh!! >
4) Make your favorite sandwich. < bacon, bacon, bacon, cheese whiz, bread >
4) Proceed to Cryodiil.
5) Once there, proceed to find the nearest battle and spam your 'mouse button of death' with one hand and enjoy your tasty sandwich with the other hand. < pwnage with style >
Brought to you by 'PvP for winners 101 and Animation Canceling productions'
▬ஜ Seeds of War, Piles of Skulls ஜ▬
▬▬▬ஜ twitch.tv/uberkull ஜ▬▬▬0 -
UnverganglichSoul ShrivenNo, it's bad for the gameUnverganglich wrote: »I feel as if something like this breaks immersion considerably, which while I understand isn't important to a lot of people, it also is akin to bug abuse. Certain spells can be very powerful and as a result you would expect to not be able to cast them instantly. This largely seems to bypass that, which in turn makes them not as situational and you don't have to time and opportune them as much.
Breaks immersion... that's your logic? I suppose we shouldn't dare apply the same logic to asking how a Guild Trader can hold thousands of items in his small wooden crates? Or perhaps the ability to hold 50 swords in my back pocket to sell off at the next trash vendor?
That was only half of the post, if you bothered to read and apply comprehension. I understand it's asking too much sometimes though. So I'll reiterate: It's akin to bug abuse and nullifies what I think is a useful and strategic mechanic (i.e. the need to charge up powerful spells and abilities).0 -
jeevin✭✭✭✭✭No, it's bad for the gameGiles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Surely now that Zos has adopted the "we can't fix it so now it's a feature" approach, we should get a tutorial for every player. Perhaps just after escaping the Wailing Prison the Prophet could explain this dark magic called animation cancelling where only the soulless one can actually warp time and cancel an action by doing another action but still manage to damage his foes for full damage!
Ridiculous.
They didn't adopt that approach. It's easy to fix but dumbs down the game.
@Giles.floydub17_ESO I'm not sure if your taking the *** or not. The good people at Zos have proven time and again they are incapable fixing basic issues. Even implementing basic features are beyond them. Fixing the combat system to eliminate animation cancelling would be a monumental task.
How would removing the damage dealt by a canceled attack dumb down the combat? From my perspective it may slow the combat down a notch, make the combat far more strategic and remove(or at least minimize) the ability to exploit a broken system. It may well require more adaptive thinking on the fly and strategy.1 -
Heromofo✭✭✭✭✭I never knew this existedGiles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Surely now that Zos has adopted the "we can't fix it so now it's a feature" approach, we should get a tutorial for every player. Perhaps just after escaping the Wailing Prison the Prophet could explain this dark magic called animation cancelling where only the soulless one can actually warp time and cancel an action by doing another action but still manage to damage his foes for full damage!
Ridiculous.
They didn't adopt that approach. It's easy to fix but dumbs down the game.
Here's the logic. ZOS can't afford to ban everyone using a PC gaming keyboard that all come with custom software that allows for macroing, Nor can they afford to ban everyone that uses PC gaming mice that have driver software that include macroing.
Hello Razer
They'll have to ban their entire customer base. A buy to play MMO without a mandatory sub can't afford that. Even if you don't use the macro software, the driver installs it by default and that is what ZOS detects.
So if you do this 'easy fix' as you put it, you avoid having to police macroing and banning your entire player base.
Macro software exists outside the realms of keyboard/mouse software from gaming peripherals, fyi. Things like Macro Scheduler have been around for at least 15 years. Very easy to learn to write the most basic of basic scripts. This could be something as simple as "label-->wait-->press-->wait--goto:label" to something that automates workflow processes.
Additionally, if designed correctly, the very basic macros would be quite difficult to detect since they can be used to emulate something a human can do, but by repeatedly/manually cycling the macro. Bind to a key, manually use it when you need. Quit using when you don't need.
Wow. You missed the point entirely. I'm pointing out very legit and packaged macro software that comes with a major PC hardware vendor's devices. The accompanying driver software has macro capability built in, often without the user even knowing. This means ANYONE could be using software right now that supports macros and don't even know it. So you banning them too?
Far more common to have these hardware drivers that support macros then intentionally going out to download or buy specific macro software.
So again, the point is, players don't have to go out of their way to download special macro software, it's already provided by the vendors...and you can't ban those people for using their hardwares software.
Another thing to point out my keyboard has an led screen buttons that maps 1-9 macros even comes with a tutorial if that helps.
Wait rofl so does my mouse if bindings help wait if i bind attack 1 and 2 to my mouse and then use my macro to do that as well then if i was to click both at the same time.
Is that cheating?
Nah, cheating? Cmon. You're just using that what came with your spiffy hardware. Wait....what if we bind attacks in rotation. Sure...lets do that...
<Nerd mode on>
1) Map left mouse light attack, then alternate that with presses of each 1-5 instant skills and bind it all to one of the 'extra buttons' on your mouse, normally located at your thumb position. <snort, drool, fart >
2) Test and make sure you don't run out of stamina/magicka. < eek, whizz, grrr >
3) Add delays as needed to optimize < pant, pant, muhahahahahahaha >
4) Map another extra mouse button that moves you forward. < faster, faster, ahhh!! >
4) Make your favorite sandwich. < bacon, bacon, bacon, cheese whiz, bread >
4) Proceed to Cryodiil.
5) Once there, proceed to find the nearest battle and spam your 'mouse button of death' with one hand and enjoy your tasty sandwich with the other hand. < pwnage with style >
Brought to you by 'PvP for winners 101 and Animation Canceling productions'
If this is true then this is not good there must be people out there like myself who use this.
Macros and bindings are apart of an mmo in wow it was easy to set up macros to play out abilities especially for healing.
0 -
TheDarkShadow✭✭✭✭✭
✭No, it's bad for the gameI think it's bad for the game. Some said: "Everyone can learn and do it. It's not cheating." NO! It's not about learning to add a light attack before every skills, which everyone can do. It's about a feature that can be use as an exploit. Some people will macro it, and it will give them huge advantage over people who don't use a 3'rd party program. No one can manually hit 10 buttons (5 light attacks and 5 skills) in 1s. It's cheating.
Macro also cause lag by sending 5 times more actions in 1s, and not just from the person who use it, the person who being hit by it also send x5 more informations to the server. And multiplier it by hundreds players.
So if ZOS can't handle the macro, then the best way is to remove animation canceling.
HOWEVER, I agree that BLOCK/DODGE ROLL and some other defensive skills should be able to cancel animation, BUT the animation of these defensive skills should NOT be cancelled. So you can still quickly avoid an attack, but can't add Block after every skill to cut off the animation and immediately cast a new one.1 -
PKMN12✭✭✭✭✭TheDarkShadow wrote: »I think it's bad for the game. Some said: "Everyone can learn and do it. It's not cheating." NO! It's not about learning to add a light attack before every skills, which everyone can do. It's about a feature that can be use as an exploit. Some people will macro it, and it will give them huge advantage over people who don't use a 3'rd party program. No one can manually hit 10 buttons (5 light attacks and 5 skills) in 1s. It's cheating.
Macro also cause lag by sending 5 times more actions in 1s, and not just from the person who use it, the person who being hit by it also send x5 more informations to the server. And multiplier it by hundreds players.
So if ZOS can't handle the macro, then the best way is to remove animation canceling.
HOWEVER, I agree that BLOCK/DODGE ROLL and some other defensive skills should be able to cancel animation, BUT the animation of these defensive skills should NOT be cancelled. So you can still quickly avoid an attack, but can't add Block after every skill to cut off the animation and immediately cast a new one.
so....instead of fixing a problem (getting rid of macroes), you just want to get rid of something and change the way combat feels COMPLETELY. besides, macro's do not actually work that way...........
DCUO and DDO have never had major problems with expliots related to animation canceling, and they have been around MUCH longer.1 -
Uberkull✭✭✭✭✭I never knew this existedTheDarkShadow wrote: »I think it's bad for the game. Some said: "Everyone can learn and do it. It's not cheating." NO! It's not about learning to add a light attack before every skills, which everyone can do. It's about a feature that can be use as an exploit. Some people will macro it, and it will give them huge advantage over people who don't use a 3'rd party program. No one can manually hit 10 buttons (5 light attacks and 5 skills) in 1s. It's cheating.
Macro also cause lag by sending 5 times more actions in 1s, and not just from the person who use it, the person who being hit by it also send x5 more informations to the server. And multiplier it by hundreds players.
So if ZOS can't handle the macro, then the best way is to remove animation canceling.
HOWEVER, I agree that BLOCK/DODGE ROLL and some other defensive skills should be able to cancel animation, BUT the animation of these defensive skills should NOT be cancelled. So you can still quickly avoid an attack, but can't add Block after every skill to cut off the animation and immediately cast a new one.
so....instead of fixing a problem (getting rid of macroes), you just want to get rid of something and change the way combat feels COMPLETELY. besides, macro's do not actually work that way...........
DCUO and DDO have never had major problems with expliots related to animation canceling, and they have been around MUCH longer.
LoL, how do you get rid of macros? /facepalm.▬ஜ Seeds of War, Piles of Skulls ஜ▬
▬▬▬ஜ twitch.tv/uberkull ஜ▬▬▬1
This discussion has been closed.