Animation Canceling good for the game?

Uberkull

I never knew this existed

Molsondry wrote: »

FYI I just tried a macroing program , just to see, HAHAHA. Its humanly impossible to recreate what its does lol.

It littlerally fire my force pulse and animation cancel into medium weaving within .2 second before casting another force pulse .3 second later. I get 4 attack per second where if animation canceling wouldnt exist I would do 1 attack

However I try hard what so ever I do I cant reproduce it manually , I only get 2 attack per second manualy....Its insanly broken..

I understand now how I got killed in cyro with 24k health and about 18k worth shield within 1 second and only 2 attack would appear in my death recap. Was so quick the recap page didnt register the other atack. I only see 10k critical rush and 8k wrecking blow. thats not even my full health bar lol.

Broken as hell

Wow. Thanks for the test. Wonder if console will be worse with programmable controllers.....

Molsondry

No, it's bad for the game

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's good for the game. Ppl will always exploit anything and cheat.
ZOS can handle the problems and other players can report other players as it comes up.

I can't imagine trying to play without the ability to cancel a cast or action to block or avoid damage

We are not talking here of removing the ability to cancel an animation(or a cast) but to prevent the canceled skill to still register. Right now we are talking about bypassing the animation get another attack out faster and still have your previous canceled animation attack register,

By that mean players are using in game broken mechanics to increase dps wich in a certain matter could be seen as a increased depth into your rotation but the fact that it allows use of macro to automate effective skill animation canceling within millisecond (we are talking here of .1 seconds) range using block and medium attack weaving .

Not to mention this is bad for pvp because they are 30 men + zerg using those macro programs in cyro and that might be one of the cause of the lag thinking 30-40 men zerg are sending massive attack command/ animation cancel into block /mediumweaving command within milisecond wich is most likely causing mini DDOS to pvp servers.

Uberkull

I never knew this existed

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's good for the game. Ppl will always exploit anything and cheat.
ZOS can handle the problems and other players can report other players as it comes up.

I can't imagine trying to play without the ability to cancel a cast or action to block or avoid damage

Of course. You basically ALWAYS take the side of the publisher/developer. It's rather embarrassing. If you can't see the points that people are making about how easy it is to make a macro to achieve this, just don't post.

If you can macro a attack to be fast enough where you get 4 attacks instead of 1 (when doing it manually), that's a problem and needs to be addressed. It's not possible manually, so it's not a 'skill' that can be practiced and mastered.

technohic

No, it's bad for the game

Molsondry wrote: »

I wont make a video of me using a software to active an automated rotation . I would run after a suspension....

So we have no reason to believe you other than your word?

Guess it doesn't matter either way. You take the video and send it to the developers if you really think its an issue that needs addressed.

Molsondry

No, it's bad for the game

uberkull wrote: »

If you can macro a attack to be fast enough where you get 4 attacks instead of 1 (when doing it manually), that's a problem and needs to be addressed. It's not possible manually, so it's not a 'skill' that can be practiced and mastered.

Its 2 manually when I do my manual animation cancelling. But In my taught it should be 1 . Except for buff like surge that should be off any animation or off any gcd.

NewBlacksmurf

Yes, it's good for the game.

Molsondry wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's good for the game. Ppl will always exploit anything and cheat.
ZOS can handle the problems and other players can report other players as it comes up.

I can't imagine trying to play without the ability to cancel a cast or action to block or avoid damage

We are not talking here of removing the ability to cancel an animation(or a cast) but to prevent the canceled skill to still register. Right now we are talking about bypassing the animation get another attack out faster and still have your previous canceled animation attack register,

By that mean players are using in game broken mechanics to increase dps wich in a certain matter could be seen as a increased depth into your rotation but the fact that it allows use of macro to automate effective skill animation canceling within millisecond (we are talking here of .1 seconds) range using block and medium attack weaving .

Not to mention this is bad for pvp because they are 30 men + zerg using those macro programs in cyro and that might be one of the cause of the lag thinking 30-40 men zerg are sending massive attack command/ animation cancel into block /mediumweaving command within milisecond wich is most likely causing mini DDOS to pvp servers.

In my comment I don't think the exploit is good but ZOS is reacting to reported players which is good.
I read and understand the thread and others comments but didn't feel a need to go further as I addressed both

If it helps...I don't agree or support any means of cheating, exploiting

NewBlacksmurf

Yes, it's good for the game.

uberkull wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's good for the game. Ppl will always exploit anything and cheat.
ZOS can handle the problems and other players can report other players as it comes up.

I can't imagine trying to play without the ability to cancel a cast or action to block or avoid damage

Of course. You basically ALWAYS take the side of the publisher/developer. It's rather embarrassing. If you can't see the points that people are making about how easy it is to make a macro to achieve this, just don't post.

If you can macro a attack to be fast enough where you get 4 attacks instead of 1 (when doing it manually), that's a problem and needs to be addressed. It's not possible manually, so it's not a 'skill' that can be practiced and mastered.

Please chill out...it's my opinion...there is literally no need to go out of your way to target and bait or incite arguments to my particular posts on every thread you see a comment from me. Im turning block back on again

Tried but it's not gonna work between us

Molsondry

No, it's bad for the game

The ability to cancel an animation with block or dodge need to stay.If I want to block something or dodge it has to happen now but they needs to have a down side. they need to l cancel everything not just the animation

Light /medium attack should not triger an animation cancel. It should have to wait for the full animation to finish.

Fixed

Yasha

No, it's bad for the game

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's good for the game.

I can't imagine trying to play without the ability to cancel a cast or action to block or avoid damage

I am sure it is hard to imagine how to play if you had to rely on skill.

lsneakl

Personally don't care if it's in or not but question:
Shouldn't a cancelled animation cancel the action that was tried it at least reduce the effectiveness?

Why?
Think if you were going to swing a sword or throw a baseball, if you stopped half way through to then eat a pie wouldn't the force on that previous action be greatly reduced? I guess the counter argument is that the Animation is showing off and has no correlation to what you just did swinging the sword as you still put full force into it.

NewBlacksmurf

Yes, it's good for the game.

lsneakl wrote: »

Personally don't care if it's in or not but question:
Shouldn't a cancelled animation cancel the action that was tried it at least reduce the effectiveness?

Why?
Think if you were going to swing a sword or throw a baseball, if you stopped half way through to then eat a pie wouldn't the force on that previous action be greatly reduced? I guess the counter argument is that the Animation is showing off and has no correlation to what you just did swinging the sword as you still put full force into it.

In context to the game...it's not right.
If people are able to do this via normal play that's one thing but if people are setting up macros and such to have an 100% effectiveness to then gain an advantage it's an exploit and the company should address the actions as such

We all know that it's not possible to do over and over again with 100% effectiveness without taking it the exploit extent so...this the topic at hand

Yasha

No, it's bad for the game

lsneakl wrote: »

Personally don't care if it's in or not but question:
Shouldn't a cancelled animation cancel the action that was tried it at least reduce the effectiveness?

Why?
Think if you were going to swing a sword or throw a baseball, if you stopped half way through to then eat a pie wouldn't the force on that previous action be greatly reduced? I guess the counter argument is that the Animation is showing off and has no correlation to what you just did swinging the sword as you still put full force into it.

Of course its not right, its just cheese.

Usually every light attack I do is accompanied by a skill, so for example every time I light attack on my NB it also casts strife, every time I have block up I am also casting another skill, I have seen more complex ways of using animation cancelling on videos as well that I will try out at some point (cancelling certain long cast animation skills with other skills).

Makes no sense but if you don't do it you gimp yourself.

Emma_Overload

Yes, it's good for the game.

Molsondry wrote: »

The ability to cancel an animation with block or dodge need to stay.If I want to block something or dodge it has to happen now but they needs to have a down side. they need to l cancel everything not just the animation

Light /medium attack should not triger an animation cancel. It should have to wait for the full animation to finish.

Fixed

No one would ever make light attacks again if they did that... light attacks do so little damage that your DPS would be cut in HALF.

Please stop trying to turn ESO into a sluggish turn-based game where you can smoke a cigarette in between every attack. One of the big selling points at launch was that the game had the snappy controls and fast action that Elder Scrolls fans enjoyed with Skyrim and Oblivion. Getting rid of animation cancelling would KILL ESO.

jkemmery

No, it's bad for the game

If they would actually ban people who macro it in PvP then I would say it's good for the game. As it stands, it creates a situation where players can push an "instant kill" button, which makes PvP far less fun, and challenging in the end. I could write a macro, I could easily write a script, I know LUA, but I don't want to win by cheating. Sadly too many other's don't feel the same way.

dodgehopper_ESO

It would be better for the game, if we had proper combinations like DCUO has. As it stands though I do not have a problem with it. It takes timing and skill to animation cancel properly. If the game has cooldowns, it will also feel like every other clunky MMO out there which is a bit annoying. Why have only a handful of abilities, if you can't do something interesting with them.

PKMN12

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

It would be better for the game, if we had proper combinations like DCUO has. As it stands though I do not have a problem with it. It takes timing and skill to animation cancel properly. If the game has cooldowns, it will also feel like every other clunky MMO out there which is a bit annoying. Why have only a handful of abilities, if you can't do something interesting with them.

DCUO has animation canceling, to some extent, even WORSE then this game has it, and it has been there longer.

Raash

Yes, it's good for the game.

because you get to oneshot people and bask in glory while winning the whole game.

Acrolas

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Getting rid of animation cancelling would KILL ESO.

Much like dissenting within your party would kill a politician.
Oh, the corrupting power of power...

dodgehopper_ESO

Its also fun to do animation cancelling in DCUO. It means that the 'weapon build' has its place in the realm of using powers, and sometimes using weapons is more meaningful than the powers. It means that 'magic' is NOT king, which is damn nice. I have no problem with animation cancelling as such, I just think it would be more meaningful if we had combinations like DCUO has, forcing us to weave more than just left click power left click power, or power block power block, or left click power block left click power block. Understand? If you could get more out of left left right power, you'd use that, and it would be actually interesting in an -action- based mmo. Given the few number of button strokes we have, I'm actually confused why people want to move away from action built game. I actually want MORE, thus, combinations.

jkemmery

No, it's bad for the game

jkemmery wrote: »

If they would actually ban people who macro it in PvP then I would say it's good for the game. As it stands, it creates a situation where players can push an "instant kill" button, which makes PvP far less fun, and challenging in the end. I could write a macro, I could easily write a script, I know LUA, but I don't want to win by cheating. Sadly too many other's don't feel the same way.

Raash wrote: »

because you get to oneshot people and bask in glory while winning the whole game.

I rest my case.

PKMN12

jkemmery wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

If they would actually ban people who macro it in PvP then I would say it's good for the game. As it stands, it creates a situation where players can push an "instant kill" button, which makes PvP far less fun, and challenging in the end. I could write a macro, I could easily write a script, I know LUA, but I don't want to win by cheating. Sadly too many other's don't feel the same way.

Raash wrote: »

because you get to oneshot people and bask in glory while winning the whole game.

I rest my case.

now, if you actually knew how to play, your would know there is no such thing as "insta-kill", when it "happens" it is a lag problem, or you just exaggerating.

Emma_Overload

Yes, it's good for the game.

Molsondry wrote: »

FYI I just tried a macroing program , just to see, HAHAHA. Its humanly impossible to recreate what its does lol.

It littlerally fire my force pulse and animation cancel into medium weaving within .2 second before casting another force pulse .3 second later. I get 4 attack per second where if animation canceling wouldnt exist I would do 1 attack

However I try hard what so ever I do I cant reproduce it manually , I only get 2 attack per second manualy....Its insanly broken..

I understand now how I got killed in cyro with 24k health and about 18k worth shield within 1 second and only 2 attack would appear in my death recap. Was so quick the recap page didnt register the other atack. I only see 10k critical rush and 8k wrecking blow. thats not even my full health bar lol.

Broken as hell

This is hogwash. SHOW US a video where you fire 2 Force Pulses and 2 weapon attacks in less than a second. It can't be done, with or without a macro. Best case scenario, in my experience, is that you can fit ONE Force Pulse and ONE light attack in 1.1 seconds.

david.haypreub18_ESO

No, it's bad for the game

It does add an element of skill to the game, but if so, then the game needs to be more upfront about it. From the posts in this thread, you can see that some people weren't even aware of animation cancelling: they just don't read forums and websites. That is simply unfair. If it is an important part of the game, the game needs to make players aware of it and add it to the tutorials.

As it stands, the system is unfair.

Raash

Yes, it's good for the game.

jkemmery wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

If they would actually ban people who macro it in PvP then I would say it's good for the game. As it stands, it creates a situation where players can push an "instant kill" button, which makes PvP far less fun, and challenging in the end. I could write a macro, I could easily write a script, I know LUA, but I don't want to win by cheating. Sadly too many other's don't feel the same way.

Raash wrote: »

because you get to oneshot people and bask in glory while winning the whole game.

I rest my case.

You should. just face it, the meaning of the words "Player Skills" have been dead for years... ESO has been exploiters heaven since headstart and will continue to be.

Saturn

Weaving is very simple, everyone I know has been able to pick it up with some ease, although a few weaves might be trickier than others it is essentially a perfectly balanced playfield. Therefore I have absolutely not problem with it. It is only when people start using macros to execute impossible weaves or attacks within attacks within attacks within attacks and so on that it becomes somewhat of a problem.

As long as it is something everyone can do and therefore does not exclude any players it is not bad for the game.

Rohaus

Yes, it's good for the game.

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

It does add an element of skill to the game, but if so, then the game needs to be more upfront about it. From the posts in this thread, you can see that some people weren't even aware of animation cancelling: they just don't read forums and websites. That is simply unfair. If it is an important part of the game, the game needs to make players aware of it and add it to the tutorials.

As it stands, the system is unfair.

Orly? Should the game also teach you how to beat boss encounters? Should the game tell you how to make money in the game?

No? And why is that? That's because there is actual learning involved in the game... part of the experience of any MMO is that you have to learn how to play... learn about abilities... learn how to survive... tons of learning in a MMO. With all the learning... there is no way a company could ever provide tutorials on each and every aspect of the game. That is where the community comes into play as well as actually PLAYING the game and putting time in to learn these things.

If you have played the game for any period of time and did not notice how animation cancelling worked... did not see it and said "Oh, look at what I just learned"... before reading about it on these here forums... you are a noob. L2Play does apply in that case.

Oh and anyone that is macro'ing or attempting to macro a light attack with a skill ability in PvP is handicapping themselves... any attempt to macro light attack + skill in a macro would fail due to the inconsistent performance of Cyrodiil.

I am against macro'ing especially with regards the topic at hand here. In small scale or ganking, I could see it being macro'd... even still, without testing it mind you, I just don't see it working properly.

Razzak

No, it's bad for the game

PKMN12 wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

If they would actually ban people who macro it in PvP then I would say it's good for the game. As it stands, it creates a situation where players can push an "instant kill" button, which makes PvP far less fun, and challenging in the end. I could write a macro, I could easily write a script, I know LUA, but I don't want to win by cheating. Sadly too many other's don't feel the same way.

Raash wrote: »

because you get to oneshot people and bask in glory while winning the whole game.

I rest my case.

now, if you actually knew how to play, your would know there is no such thing as "insta-kill", when it "happens" it is a lag problem, or you just exaggerating.

And of course you have proof of such things being the result of lag only.

PKMN12

Razzak wrote: »

PKMN12 wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

If they would actually ban people who macro it in PvP then I would say it's good for the game. As it stands, it creates a situation where players can push an "instant kill" button, which makes PvP far less fun, and challenging in the end. I could write a macro, I could easily write a script, I know LUA, but I don't want to win by cheating. Sadly too many other's don't feel the same way.

Raash wrote: »

because you get to oneshot people and bask in glory while winning the whole game.

I rest my case.

now, if you actually knew how to play, your would know there is no such thing as "insta-kill", when it "happens" it is a lag problem, or you just exaggerating.

And of course you have proof of such things being the result of lag only.

Just look at all the threads about it.

every example of this supposedly happening is always easily explained if you actually bother looking at the abilites.

Rioht

No, it's bad for the game

I am completely against it, on the sole fact that it is an unadvertised mechaniv.

It if was introduced in the tutorials, or even during the PvP intro quests, then I'm all for it.

However keeping it as a hidden mechanic that not everyone is aware of, or understands is not a great way of presenting a game.

PKMN12

Rioht wrote: »

I am completely against it, on the sole fact that it is an unadvertised mechaniv.

It if was introduced in the tutorials, or even during the PvP intro quests, then I'm all for it.

However keeping it as a hidden mechanic that not everyone is aware of, or understands is not a great way of presenting a game.

problem here is....take a look at EVERY action based mmo with combat like ESO, mostly DDO and DCUO. both of them have animation canceling

the other action RPGS MMO like Neverwinter have a much different style of combat that plays very differently and much more slowly

You basically have to choose one of the other