Animation Canceling good for the game?

Razzak

No, it's bad for the game

PKMN12 wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

PKMN12 wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

If they would actually ban people who macro it in PvP then I would say it's good for the game. As it stands, it creates a situation where players can push an "instant kill" button, which makes PvP far less fun, and challenging in the end. I could write a macro, I could easily write a script, I know LUA, but I don't want to win by cheating. Sadly too many other's don't feel the same way.

Raash wrote: »

because you get to oneshot people and bask in glory while winning the whole game.

I rest my case.

now, if you actually knew how to play, your would know there is no such thing as "insta-kill", when it "happens" it is a lag problem, or you just exaggerating.

And of course you have proof of such things being the result of lag only.

Just look at all the threads about it.

every example of this supposedly happening is always easily explained if you actually bother looking at the abilites.

You have animation cancelling, macros and lag. To say the least. That's three different potential inputs that could be the reason for these occurences. Three different possibilities and no proof.

PKMN12

Razzak wrote: »

PKMN12 wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

PKMN12 wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

If they would actually ban people who macro it in PvP then I would say it's good for the game. As it stands, it creates a situation where players can push an "instant kill" button, which makes PvP far less fun, and challenging in the end. I could write a macro, I could easily write a script, I know LUA, but I don't want to win by cheating. Sadly too many other's don't feel the same way.

Raash wrote: »

because you get to oneshot people and bask in glory while winning the whole game.

I rest my case.

now, if you actually knew how to play, your would know there is no such thing as "insta-kill", when it "happens" it is a lag problem, or you just exaggerating.

And of course you have proof of such things being the result of lag only.

Just look at all the threads about it.

every example of this supposedly happening is always easily explained if you actually bother looking at the abilites.

You have animation cancelling, macros and lag. To say the least. That's three different potential inputs that could be the reason for these occurences. Three different possibilities and no proof.

animation canceling cannot one-shot anybody, MAcros actually LESSEN the damamge donel, and pretty much every bit of so called "proof" has awlways been proven as stupidity on the users part not understanding what happened to them.

so, i ask, where is your "proof" that you are actually getting one-shotted thanks to animation canceling.

Forestd16b14_ESO

No, it's bad for the game

This along with shield stacking and the most abuse mechanic in the game block casting all need "fixed". No arguing about it there clearly very abused mechanics that are ruining the game.

idk

Yes, it's good for the game.

PKMN12 wrote: »

couple things i should say here:

1. The game has been balanced for animation canceling. a normal endgame character will not be able to complete any of the trials without at least basic knowledge of animation canceling.
2. if they get rid of animation canceling, it would completely change the way the game is played. this might be both a good thing and a bad thing. It would make combat A LOT slower then it is at the moment. something that drastic might get players to leave the game (well, more then there are already leaving the game) because they liked how fast combat was.

1. Exactly
2. The other option is a GCD on everything and turn this into a lame game like swtor and wow.
3. Some confuse animation canceling and macros. They are two different subject yet some bring macros into this discussion.

Shadesofkin

Yes, it's good for the game.

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

4) Get out your pencil and paper... Dungeons & Dragons is back, baby!

Back, pfft, never left.

Uberkull

I never knew this existed

k

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

PKMN12 wrote: »

couple things i should say here:

1. The game has been balanced for animation canceling. a normal endgame character will not be able to complete any of the trials without at least basic knowledge of animation canceling.
2. if they get rid of animation canceling, it would completely change the way the game is played. this might be both a good thing and a bad thing. It would make combat A LOT slower then it is at the moment. something that drastic might get players to leave the game (well, more then there are already leaving the game) because they liked how fast combat was.

1. Exactly
2. The other option is a GCD on everything and turn this into a lame game like swtor and wow.
3. Some confuse animation canceling and macros. They are two different subject yet some bring macros into this discussion.

Careful on what you are calling 'lame game'. WoW was around and defined the MMO genre as it stands today, long before ESO and at this rate will be around long after ESO.

I don't see any confusion on these posts between animation canceling and macros. Macros are being used to optimize the animation canceling sequence necessary to execute a skill faster than it was intended to be executed.

It was clearly stated by ZOS that this was a unintended effect that exposed itself after release. UNINTENDED. But they are not fixing it and it's not an exploit. However, writing a macro to execute a One button spell weave is bannable.

Basically, it's going to exist and players will have to adapt or accept they need to macro to compete in end game trials or pvp.

jkemmery

No, it's bad for the game

PKMN12 wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

If they would actually ban people who macro it in PvP then I would say it's good for the game. As it stands, it creates a situation where players can push an "instant kill" button, which makes PvP far less fun, and challenging in the end. I could write a macro, I could easily write a script, I know LUA, but I don't want to win by cheating. Sadly too many other's don't feel the same way.

Raash wrote: »

because you get to oneshot people and bask in glory while winning the whole game.

I rest my case.

now, if you actually knew how to play, your would know there is no such thing as "insta-kill", when it "happens" it is a lag problem, or you just exaggerating.

I personally know people who do it in PvP all the time. I have had chat discussions with people about what they macro and when to use it. I absolutely know it happens. You can find examples online of exactly how to write macros for animation cancelling weaves. Anyone who is defending the practice most likely makes use of macros themselves. It's not a lag problem.

Reykice

Yes, it's good for the game.

Its fine, more power to the player. they balanced the game with thus in mind...
Also, removing it would make players weaker, why would anyone want that?

Shunravi

Yes, it's good for the game.

Reykice wrote: »

Its fine, more power to the player. they balanced the game with thus in mind...
Also, removing it would make players weaker, why would anyone want that?

PvP

idk

Yes, it's good for the game.

uberkull wrote: »

k

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

PKMN12 wrote: »

couple things i should say here:

1. The game has been balanced for animation canceling. a normal endgame character will not be able to complete any of the trials without at least basic knowledge of animation canceling.
2. if they get rid of animation canceling, it would completely change the way the game is played. this might be both a good thing and a bad thing. It would make combat A LOT slower then it is at the moment. something that drastic might get players to leave the game (well, more then there are already leaving the game) because they liked how fast combat was.

1. Exactly
2. The other option is a GCD on everything and turn this into a lame game like swtor and wow.
3. Some confuse animation canceling and macros. They are two different subject yet some bring macros into this discussion.

Careful on what you are calling 'lame game'. WoW was around and defined the MMO genre as it stands today, long before ESO and at this rate will be around long after ESO.

I don't see any confusion on these posts between animation canceling and macros. Macros are being used to optimize the animation canceling sequence necessary to execute a skill faster than it was intended to be executed.

It was clearly stated by ZOS that this was a unintended effect that exposed itself after release. UNINTENDED. But they are not fixing it and it's not an exploit. However, writing a macro to execute a One button spell weave is bannable.

Basically, it's going to exist and players will have to adapt or accept they need to macro to compete in end game trials or pvp.

WoW may have played a big part of defining or setting the stage for MMOs but it is old and tired and the GCD is so old and boring.

Yes, animation canceling was an unintended part of not having a GCD and the devs are it removing it because it would eliminate the fluid combat we currently have which is a huge part of why this game is good and fun.

One can try to lump macors into th conversation of animnation canceling even though it's irrelevant since macros for combat are often against ToS yet in many games there is a group of players that still use macros to gain an advantage even when animnation canceling is not available and there is a GCD. Basically, mute in this conversation.

What makes animation canceling great is a player can work to master this and improve their dps. Additionally, as others have pointed out, the entire game would require a rework since the current state, especially post 1.6, is based on this being part of the game.

Caroloces

No, it's bad for the game

If it were simply a means of doing more sophisticated attacks based on player skills, then I wouldn't mind it so much. The fact that it seems be closely related to the macro phenomenon, then I would say it's bad for the game.
The use of macros reminds me of day traders manipulating the market - there's no skill or merit to employing such techniques and it gives an unfair advantage to players who make use of such techniques.

Basically, I find the use of macros to be repugnant.

Uberkull

I never knew this existed

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

uberkull wrote: »

k

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

PKMN12 wrote: »

couple things i should say here:

1. The game has been balanced for animation canceling. a normal endgame character will not be able to complete any of the trials without at least basic knowledge of animation canceling.
2. if they get rid of animation canceling, it would completely change the way the game is played. this might be both a good thing and a bad thing. It would make combat A LOT slower then it is at the moment. something that drastic might get players to leave the game (well, more then there are already leaving the game) because they liked how fast combat was.

1. Exactly
2. The other option is a GCD on everything and turn this into a lame game like swtor and wow.
3. Some confuse animation canceling and macros. They are two different subject yet some bring macros into this discussion.

Careful on what you are calling 'lame game'. WoW was around and defined the MMO genre as it stands today, long before ESO and at this rate will be around long after ESO.

I don't see any confusion on these posts between animation canceling and macros. Macros are being used to optimize the animation canceling sequence necessary to execute a skill faster than it was intended to be executed.

It was clearly stated by ZOS that this was a unintended effect that exposed itself after release. UNINTENDED. But they are not fixing it and it's not an exploit. However, writing a macro to execute a One button spell weave is bannable.

Basically, it's going to exist and players will have to adapt or accept they need to macro to compete in end game trials or pvp.

WoW may have played a big part of defining or setting the stage for MMOs but it is old and tired and the GCD is so old and boring.

Yes, animation canceling was an unintended part of not having a GCD and the devs are it removing it because it would eliminate the fluid combat we currently have which is a huge part of why this game is good and fun.

One can try to lump macors into th conversation of animnation canceling even though it's irrelevant since macros for combat are often against ToS yet in many games there is a group of players that still use macros to gain an advantage even when animnation canceling is not available and there is a GCD. Basically, mute in this conversation.

What makes animation canceling great is a player can work to master this and improve their dps. Additionally, as others have pointed out, the entire game would require a rework since the current state, especially post 1.6, is based on this being part of the game.

Actually, you make good points. Let me counter some points, just for discussion:
- Let's say they fixed animation canceling so that the animation has to finish else the spell is canceled. You can move, strafe, do anything BUT activate another skill. This would basically introduce a GCD, one that all spells share. And yea, all animations of instant spells would need to have the same duration, meaning the animations would need to be tweaked AGAIN to match this GCD duration. That's the rework, I agree.
- Would it impact the fluidity of combat? I would say no because I wouldn't say combat is less fluid now if I don't mix in a light attack before hitting skill. I just have to time my attack different, it's still realtime.
- Macro does become part of this discussion because this is a easy to abuse technique. Any time you have a series of buttons to press, in a sequence, with timing delay between those presses...a macro is optimal. You adjust the timing between presses you optimize the number of attacks you can get in. This is impossible to reproduce consistently manually.

And those that don't want to fix animation canceling are those that macro it. /flamesuit on

idk

Yes, it's good for the game.

uberkull wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

uberkull wrote: »

k

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

PKMN12 wrote: »

couple things i should say here:

1. The game has been balanced for animation canceling. a normal endgame character will not be able to complete any of the trials without at least basic knowledge of animation canceling.
2. if they get rid of animation canceling, it would completely change the way the game is played. this might be both a good thing and a bad thing. It would make combat A LOT slower then it is at the moment. something that drastic might get players to leave the game (well, more then there are already leaving the game) because they liked how fast combat was.

1. Exactly
2. The other option is a GCD on everything and turn this into a lame game like swtor and wow.
3. Some confuse animation canceling and macros. They are two different subject yet some bring macros into this discussion.

Careful on what you are calling 'lame game'. WoW was around and defined the MMO genre as it stands today, long before ESO and at this rate will be around long after ESO.

I don't see any confusion on these posts between animation canceling and macros. Macros are being used to optimize the animation canceling sequence necessary to execute a skill faster than it was intended to be executed.

It was clearly stated by ZOS that this was a unintended effect that exposed itself after release. UNINTENDED. But they are not fixing it and it's not an exploit. However, writing a macro to execute a One button spell weave is bannable.

Basically, it's going to exist and players will have to adapt or accept they need to macro to compete in end game trials or pvp.

WoW may have played a big part of defining or setting the stage for MMOs but it is old and tired and the GCD is so old and boring.

Yes, animation canceling was an unintended part of not having a GCD and the devs are it removing it because it would eliminate the fluid combat we currently have which is a huge part of why this game is good and fun.

One can try to lump macors into th conversation of animnation canceling even though it's irrelevant since macros for combat are often against ToS yet in many games there is a group of players that still use macros to gain an advantage even when animnation canceling is not available and there is a GCD. Basically, mute in this conversation.

What makes animation canceling great is a player can work to master this and improve their dps. Additionally, as others have pointed out, the entire game would require a rework since the current state, especially post 1.6, is based on this being part of the game.

Actually, you make good points. Let me counter some points, just for discussion:
- Let's say they fixed animation canceling so that the animation has to finish else the spell is canceled. You can move, strafe, do anything BUT activate another skill. This would basically introduce a GCD, one that all spells share. And yea, all animations of instant spells would need to have the same duration, meaning the animations would need to be tweaked AGAIN to match this GCD duration. That's the rework, I agree.
- Would it impact the fluidity of combat? I would say no because I wouldn't say combat is less fluid now if I don't mix in a light attack before hitting skill. I just have to time my attack different, it's still realtime.
- Macro does become part of this discussion because this is a easy to abuse technique. Any time you have a series of buttons to press, in a sequence, with timing delay between those presses...a macro is optimal. You adjust the timing between presses you optimize the number of attacks you can get in. This is impossible to reproduce consistently manually.

And those that don't want to fix animation canceling are those that macro it. /flamesuit on

1. Eliminate the animation canceling lowers skill involved in getting good dps (basically nerf game play)
2. Eliminate animation canceling reduces our dps
3. Macros are Zos's responsibility to police and ban those who use them. The rest of us should not be punished as a result. Eliminating animation canceling would punish the skilled player group. Seriously, it's easy to work animation canceling into ones routine without macros.

MisterBigglesworth

No, it's bad for the game

ESO combat does have Global Cooldowns, though. Light/heavy attacks are on a separate GCD from the abilities GCD. That's fine too. There's a lot of other MMOs where certain abilities are off the GCD. The problem is with abilities that have a cast time being cancelled and yet the damage still goes through. In WoW, if you're half way through casting Arcane Blast on a Mage, you can move in order cancel the cast. In ESO's combat you could cancel Arcane Blast, do some instant spell (equivalent of a light attack), and still get both spells to hit. It's just really awkward and gimmicky.

Bottom line: if you cancel an animation it should cancel the damage associated with that animation.

Bouvin

No, it's bad for the game

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Animation cancelling is a necessary by-product of ESO's snappy, real-time combat. Here are the alternatives:

1) Slow down combat with a forced cooldown through the entire length of each and every animation.

2) Display all animations for their entire length, allowing animations to overlap.

3) Get rid of all animations and make every attack instant.

4) Get out your pencil and paper... Dungeons & Dragons is back, baby!

Options 1, 2 and 3 would ruin ESO. I suggest you try Option 4... or maybe just stop whining and DEAL WITH IT.

Or if you cancel the animation you cancel the attack.

idk

Yes, it's good for the game.

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

ESO combat does have Global Cooldowns, though. Light/heavy attacks are on a separate GCD from the abilities GCD. That's fine too. There's a lot of other MMOs where certain abilities are off the GCD. The problem is with abilities that have a cast time being cancelled and yet the damage still goes through. In WoW, if you're half way through casting Arcane Blast on a Mage, you can move in order cancel the cast. In ESO's combat you could cancel Arcane Blast, do some instant spell (equivalent of a light attack), and still get both spells to hit. It's just really awkward and gimmicky.

Bottom line: if you cancel an animation it should cancel the damage associated with that animation.

Bottom line is the damage should not be canceled based on the feedback from the development team. While is was unintended it is now officially part of the game and officially acknowledged as such. Seriously, it's not that hard to do and macros are most certainly not required.

Rune_Relic

No, it's bad for the game

animation cancelling is completely unnecessary.
It absolutely encourages hackers and macro use... or die.

They have 5+2 skills that could have been ranked by dps/speed.
Rapid skills light damage and slow skills heavy damage.
You want to overcommit and get pummelled in the process by being locked in an extended animation and vulnerable to stuns ....tough cookie L2P. Don't try an one shot someone.

dafox187

No, it's bad for the game

nuh

idk

Yes, it's good for the game.

Rune_Relic wrote: »

animation cancelling is completely unnecessary.
It absolutely encourages hackers and macro use... or die.

They have 5+2 skills that could have been ranked by dps/speed.
Rapid skills light damage and slow skills heavy damage.
You want to overcommit and get pummelled in the process by being locked in an extended animation and vulnerable to stuns ....tough cookie L2P. Don't try an one shot someone.

I respect you have an opinion but highly and completely disagree. Maybe I have just seen more MMO playtime in various games to see that that animation canceling only encourages raising the bar for skilled dps.

It certainly does not encourage hacking or macro use. Those that choose to hack and use macros often do regardless. I guarantee you that macros are used in almost every game by a group of players. Some games do a better job at finding them than others. Hacking also occurrs but animation canceling is not hacking.

Animation canceling is a legitimate action in the game as defined by the game developers.

I think it's great we have a mechanic that helps us raise the bar in skilled dps and provides everyone the opportunity to improve their game play. Well done Zos.

jkemmery

No, it's bad for the game

Bouvin wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Animation cancelling is a necessary by-product of ESO's snappy, real-time combat. Here are the alternatives:

1) Slow down combat with a forced cooldown through the entire length of each and every animation.

2) Display all animations for their entire length, allowing animations to overlap.

3) Get rid of all animations and make every attack instant.

4) Get out your pencil and paper... Dungeons & Dragons is back, baby!

Options 1, 2 and 3 would ruin ESO. I suggest you try Option 4... or maybe just stop whining and DEAL WITH IT.

Or if you cancel the animation you cancel the attack.

Exactly. Cancelling the attack that triggered the animation would eliminate the problem.

idk

Yes, it's good for the game.

jkemmery wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Animation cancelling is a necessary by-product of ESO's snappy, real-time combat. Here are the alternatives:

1) Slow down combat with a forced cooldown through the entire length of each and every animation.

2) Display all animations for their entire length, allowing animations to overlap.

3) Get rid of all animations and make every attack instant.

4) Get out your pencil and paper... Dungeons & Dragons is back, baby!

Options 1, 2 and 3 would ruin ESO. I suggest you try Option 4... or maybe just stop whining and DEAL WITH IT.

Or if you cancel the animation you cancel the attack.

Exactly. Cancelling the attack that triggered the animation would eliminate the problem.

But that irrelevant since the developers have acknowledged animation canceling is a legitimate part of game play.

It's easy to do. You can do it too.

jkemmery

No, it's bad for the game

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Animation cancelling is a necessary by-product of ESO's snappy, real-time combat. Here are the alternatives:

1) Slow down combat with a forced cooldown through the entire length of each and every animation.

2) Display all animations for their entire length, allowing animations to overlap.

3) Get rid of all animations and make every attack instant.

4) Get out your pencil and paper... Dungeons & Dragons is back, baby!

Options 1, 2 and 3 would ruin ESO. I suggest you try Option 4... or maybe just stop whining and DEAL WITH IT.

Or if you cancel the animation you cancel the attack.

Exactly. Cancelling the attack that triggered the animation would eliminate the problem.

But that irrelevant since the developers have acknowledged animation canceling is a legitimate part of game play.

It's easy to do. You can do it too.

I know I can do, that's not the point. The issue is that with macros you can create a simple "push to instantly kill anything" button. Which people are in fact doing, which I know beyond even the slightest doubt, because I have had conversations with people as to exactly how they do it. Moreover, there are discussions on how to accomplish this on ESO themed forums other than this one. Pvp in Cyrodiil has gotten to the point that if you don't use a macro with a cancelling weave you are essentially just providing yourself as AP fodder for your enemies.

idk

Yes, it's good for the game.

jkemmery wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Animation cancelling is a necessary by-product of ESO's snappy, real-time combat. Here are the alternatives:

1) Slow down combat with a forced cooldown through the entire length of each and every animation.

2) Display all animations for their entire length, allowing animations to overlap.

3) Get rid of all animations and make every attack instant.

4) Get out your pencil and paper... Dungeons & Dragons is back, baby!

Options 1, 2 and 3 would ruin ESO. I suggest you try Option 4... or maybe just stop whining and DEAL WITH IT.

Or if you cancel the animation you cancel the attack.

Exactly. Cancelling the attack that triggered the animation would eliminate the problem.

But that irrelevant since the developers have acknowledged animation canceling is a legitimate part of game play.

It's easy to do. You can do it too.

I know I can do, that's not the point. The issue is that with macros you can create a simple "push to instantly kill anything" button. Which people are in fact doing, which I know beyond even the slightest doubt, because I have had conversations with people as to exactly how they do it. Moreover, there are discussions on how to accomplish this on ESO themed forums other than this one. Pvp in Cyrodiil has gotten to the point that if you don't use a macro with a cancelling weave you are essentially just providing yourself as AP fodder for your enemies.

And it's Zos' responsibility to determine and end macro use. Your arguing the wrong thing. As long as animation canceling is permitted by omission as it currently is then macro players will be faster and better than you regardless of animation canceling or not. Even you are saying the macros are the problem but are arguing they change something else.

jkemmery

No, it's bad for the game

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Animation cancelling is a necessary by-product of ESO's snappy, real-time combat. Here are the alternatives:

1) Slow down combat with a forced cooldown through the entire length of each and every animation.

2) Display all animations for their entire length, allowing animations to overlap.

3) Get rid of all animations and make every attack instant.

4) Get out your pencil and paper... Dungeons & Dragons is back, baby!

Options 1, 2 and 3 would ruin ESO. I suggest you try Option 4... or maybe just stop whining and DEAL WITH IT.

Or if you cancel the animation you cancel the attack.

Exactly. Cancelling the attack that triggered the animation would eliminate the problem.

But that irrelevant since the developers have acknowledged animation canceling is a legitimate part of game play.

It's easy to do. You can do it too.

I know I can do, that's not the point. The issue is that with macros you can create a simple "push to instantly kill anything" button. Which people are in fact doing, which I know beyond even the slightest doubt, because I have had conversations with people as to exactly how they do it. Moreover, there are discussions on how to accomplish this on ESO themed forums other than this one. Pvp in Cyrodiil has gotten to the point that if you don't use a macro with a cancelling weave you are essentially just providing yourself as AP fodder for your enemies.

And it's Zos' responsibility to determine and end macro use. Your arguing the wrong thing. As long as animation canceling is permitted by omission as it currently is then macro players will be faster and better than you regardless of animation canceling or not. Even you are saying the macros are the problem but are arguing they change something else.

The point of the thread is not whether or not it's allowed, or if it has ZOS's approval, it was if it was good for the game. I voted no, it's not good for the game, and am providing macroing kills in PvP as an example of how it is not good for the game. Respectfully, I am in fact arguing correctly to defend my position. Please follow the logic, and I am again, with respect, laying it out for anyone reading to understand. Animation cancelling is not good for the game because it creates a situation where players can easily create macros that can accomplish multiple hits in a succession far more rapidly than a human, even the most skilled human, could possibly accomplish. This has lead to players creating macros on their programmable gaming keyboards that allow them to have "push to instantly kill anything" buttons. This is happening, it is not a matter of lag, or of other players learning to play. I know for a fact it happens. This is why animation cancelling is not good for the game.

idk

Yes, it's good for the game.

jkemmery wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Animation cancelling is a necessary by-product of ESO's snappy, real-time combat. Here are the alternatives:

1) Slow down combat with a forced cooldown through the entire length of each and every animation.

2) Display all animations for their entire length, allowing animations to overlap.

3) Get rid of all animations and make every attack instant.

4) Get out your pencil and paper... Dungeons & Dragons is back, baby!

Options 1, 2 and 3 would ruin ESO. I suggest you try Option 4... or maybe just stop whining and DEAL WITH IT.

Or if you cancel the animation you cancel the attack.

Exactly. Cancelling the attack that triggered the animation would eliminate the problem.

But that irrelevant since the developers have acknowledged animation canceling is a legitimate part of game play.

It's easy to do. You can do it too.

I know I can do, that's not the point. The issue is that with macros you can create a simple "push to instantly kill anything" button. Which people are in fact doing, which I know beyond even the slightest doubt, because I have had conversations with people as to exactly how they do it. Moreover, there are discussions on how to accomplish this on ESO themed forums other than this one. Pvp in Cyrodiil has gotten to the point that if you don't use a macro with a cancelling weave you are essentially just providing yourself as AP fodder for your enemies.

And it's Zos' responsibility to determine and end macro use. Your arguing the wrong thing. As long as animation canceling is permitted by omission as it currently is then macro players will be faster and better than you regardless of animation canceling or not. Even you are saying the macros are the problem but are arguing they change something else.

The point of the thread is not whether or not it's allowed, or if it has ZOS's approval, it was if it was good for the game. I voted no, it's not good for the game, and am providing macroing kills in PvP as an example of how it is not good for the game. Respectfully, I am in fact arguing correctly to defend my position. Please follow the logic, and I am again, with respect, laying it out for anyone reading to understand. Animation cancelling is not good for the game because it creates a situation where players can easily create macros that can accomplish multiple hits in a succession far more rapidly than a human, even the most skilled human, could possibly accomplish. This has lead to players creating macros on their programmable gaming keyboards that allow them to have "push to instantly kill anything" buttons. This is happening, it is not a matter of lag, or of other players learning to play. I know for a fact it happens. This is why animation cancelling is not good for the game.

And I am correctly and accurately stating that macros are the issue and will continually be the issue regardless. That this is a backwards argument against animation canceling that is virtually pointless and absurd as long as macro attacks can continue. It's almost as though those against animation canceling cannot see he forest for the trees.

jkemmery

No, it's bad for the game

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Animation cancelling is a necessary by-product of ESO's snappy, real-time combat. Here are the alternatives:

1) Slow down combat with a forced cooldown through the entire length of each and every animation.

2) Display all animations for their entire length, allowing animations to overlap.

3) Get rid of all animations and make every attack instant.

4) Get out your pencil and paper... Dungeons & Dragons is back, baby!

Options 1, 2 and 3 would ruin ESO. I suggest you try Option 4... or maybe just stop whining and DEAL WITH IT.

Or if you cancel the animation you cancel the attack.

Exactly. Cancelling the attack that triggered the animation would eliminate the problem.

But that irrelevant since the developers have acknowledged animation canceling is a legitimate part of game play.

It's easy to do. You can do it too.

I know I can do, that's not the point. The issue is that with macros you can create a simple "push to instantly kill anything" button. Which people are in fact doing, which I know beyond even the slightest doubt, because I have had conversations with people as to exactly how they do it. Moreover, there are discussions on how to accomplish this on ESO themed forums other than this one. Pvp in Cyrodiil has gotten to the point that if you don't use a macro with a cancelling weave you are essentially just providing yourself as AP fodder for your enemies.

And it's Zos' responsibility to determine and end macro use. Your arguing the wrong thing. As long as animation canceling is permitted by omission as it currently is then macro players will be faster and better than you regardless of animation canceling or not. Even you are saying the macros are the problem but are arguing they change something else.

The point of the thread is not whether or not it's allowed, or if it has ZOS's approval, it was if it was good for the game. I voted no, it's not good for the game, and am providing macroing kills in PvP as an example of how it is not good for the game. Respectfully, I am in fact arguing correctly to defend my position. Please follow the logic, and I am again, with respect, laying it out for anyone reading to understand. Animation cancelling is not good for the game because it creates a situation where players can easily create macros that can accomplish multiple hits in a succession far more rapidly than a human, even the most skilled human, could possibly accomplish. This has lead to players creating macros on their programmable gaming keyboards that allow them to have "push to instantly kill anything" buttons. This is happening, it is not a matter of lag, or of other players learning to play. I know for a fact it happens. This is why animation cancelling is not good for the game.

And I am correctly and accurately stating that macros are the issue and will continually be the issue regardless. That this is a backwards argument against animation canceling that is virtually pointless and absurd as long as macro attacks can continue. It's almost as though those against animation canceling cannot see he forest for the trees.

It's not a backward argument because if animation cancelling were not allowed, then macros could not be used to create a rapid succession of attacks faster than a human could possibly click. I'm sorry that the logic of this is not able to be followed by those reading this.

jeevin

No, it's bad for the game

Surely now that Zos has adopted the "we can't fix it so now it's a feature" approach, we should get a tutorial for every player. Perhaps just after escaping the Wailing Prison the Prophet could explain this dark magic called animation cancelling where only the soulless one can actually warp time and cancel an action by doing another action but still manage to damage his foes for full damage!

Ridiculous.

idk

Yes, it's good for the game.

jkemmery wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Animation cancelling is a necessary by-product of ESO's snappy, real-time combat. Here are the alternatives:

1) Slow down combat with a forced cooldown through the entire length of each and every animation.

2) Display all animations for their entire length, allowing animations to overlap.

3) Get rid of all animations and make every attack instant.

4) Get out your pencil and paper... Dungeons & Dragons is back, baby!

Options 1, 2 and 3 would ruin ESO. I suggest you try Option 4... or maybe just stop whining and DEAL WITH IT.

Or if you cancel the animation you cancel the attack.

Exactly. Cancelling the attack that triggered the animation would eliminate the problem.

But that irrelevant since the developers have acknowledged animation canceling is a legitimate part of game play.

It's easy to do. You can do it too.

I know I can do, that's not the point. The issue is that with macros you can create a simple "push to instantly kill anything" button. Which people are in fact doing, which I know beyond even the slightest doubt, because I have had conversations with people as to exactly how they do it. Moreover, there are discussions on how to accomplish this on ESO themed forums other than this one. Pvp in Cyrodiil has gotten to the point that if you don't use a macro with a cancelling weave you are essentially just providing yourself as AP fodder for your enemies.

And it's Zos' responsibility to determine and end macro use. Your arguing the wrong thing. As long as animation canceling is permitted by omission as it currently is then macro players will be faster and better than you regardless of animation canceling or not. Even you are saying the macros are the problem but are arguing they change something else.

The point of the thread is not whether or not it's allowed, or if it has ZOS's approval, it was if it was good for the game. I voted no, it's not good for the game, and am providing macroing kills in PvP as an example of how it is not good for the game. Respectfully, I am in fact arguing correctly to defend my position. Please follow the logic, and I am again, with respect, laying it out for anyone reading to understand. Animation cancelling is not good for the game because it creates a situation where players can easily create macros that can accomplish multiple hits in a succession far more rapidly than a human, even the most skilled human, could possibly accomplish. This has lead to players creating macros on their programmable gaming keyboards that allow them to have "push to instantly kill anything" buttons. This is happening, it is not a matter of lag, or of other players learning to play. I know for a fact it happens. This is why animation cancelling is not good for the game.

And I am correctly and accurately stating that macros are the issue and will continually be the issue regardless. That this is a backwards argument against animation canceling that is virtually pointless and absurd as long as macro attacks can continue. It's almost as though those against animation canceling cannot see he forest for the trees.

It's not a backward argument because if animation cancelling were not allowed, then macros could not be used to create a rapid succession of attacks faster than a human could possibly click. I'm sorry that the logic of this is not able to be followed by those reading this.

It's very backwards and contains only enough logic to hide from most that you are permitting the cheaters to use macros while dumbing the game down for all so the cheaters get less advantage but still get advantage in the game.

There are means to detect macro use. It's really not all tha complicated. In fact, it's not terribly different than the bot use in that it requires Zos to decide they want do change that behavior.

Then again, if Zos continues to permit cheating in abstaining from action then we may need to dumb the game down so the cheaters gain less advantage, yet still gain some advantage.

idk

Yes, it's good for the game.

jeevin wrote: »

Surely now that Zos has adopted the "we can't fix it so now it's a feature" approach, we should get a tutorial for every player. Perhaps just after escaping the Wailing Prison the Prophet could explain this dark magic called animation cancelling where only the soulless one can actually warp time and cancel an action by doing another action but still manage to damage his foes for full damage!

Ridiculous.

They didn't adopt that approach. It's easy to fix but dumbs down the game.

jkemmery

No, it's bad for the game

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

jkemmery wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Animation cancelling is a necessary by-product of ESO's snappy, real-time combat. Here are the alternatives:

1) Slow down combat with a forced cooldown through the entire length of each and every animation.

2) Display all animations for their entire length, allowing animations to overlap.

3) Get rid of all animations and make every attack instant.

4) Get out your pencil and paper... Dungeons & Dragons is back, baby!

Options 1, 2 and 3 would ruin ESO. I suggest you try Option 4... or maybe just stop whining and DEAL WITH IT.

Or if you cancel the animation you cancel the attack.

Exactly. Cancelling the attack that triggered the animation would eliminate the problem.

But that irrelevant since the developers have acknowledged animation canceling is a legitimate part of game play.

It's easy to do. You can do it too.

I know I can do, that's not the point. The issue is that with macros you can create a simple "push to instantly kill anything" button. Which people are in fact doing, which I know beyond even the slightest doubt, because I have had conversations with people as to exactly how they do it. Moreover, there are discussions on how to accomplish this on ESO themed forums other than this one. Pvp in Cyrodiil has gotten to the point that if you don't use a macro with a cancelling weave you are essentially just providing yourself as AP fodder for your enemies.

And it's Zos' responsibility to determine and end macro use. Your arguing the wrong thing. As long as animation canceling is permitted by omission as it currently is then macro players will be faster and better than you regardless of animation canceling or not. Even you are saying the macros are the problem but are arguing they change something else.

The point of the thread is not whether or not it's allowed, or if it has ZOS's approval, it was if it was good for the game. I voted no, it's not good for the game, and am providing macroing kills in PvP as an example of how it is not good for the game. Respectfully, I am in fact arguing correctly to defend my position. Please follow the logic, and I am again, with respect, laying it out for anyone reading to understand. Animation cancelling is not good for the game because it creates a situation where players can easily create macros that can accomplish multiple hits in a succession far more rapidly than a human, even the most skilled human, could possibly accomplish. This has lead to players creating macros on their programmable gaming keyboards that allow them to have "push to instantly kill anything" buttons. This is happening, it is not a matter of lag, or of other players learning to play. I know for a fact it happens. This is why animation cancelling is not good for the game.

And I am correctly and accurately stating that macros are the issue and will continually be the issue regardless. That this is a backwards argument against animation canceling that is virtually pointless and absurd as long as macro attacks can continue. It's almost as though those against animation canceling cannot see he forest for the trees.

It's not a backward argument because if animation cancelling were not allowed, then macros could not be used to create a rapid succession of attacks faster than a human could possibly click. I'm sorry that the logic of this is not able to be followed by those reading this.

It's very backwards and contains only enough logic to hide from most that you are permitting the cheaters to use macros while dumbing the game down for all so the cheaters get less advantage but still get advantage in the game.

There are means to detect macro use. It's really not all tha complicated. In fact, it's not terribly different than the bot use in that it requires Zos to decide they want do change that behavior.

Then again, if Zos continues to permit cheating in abstaining from action then we may need to dumb the game down so the cheaters gain less advantage, yet still gain some advantage.

I think before attempting to cite terms applied to formal logic, people should actually study and understand formal logic. This discussion has become pointless in that absence.