I can't do it... I can't level anymore. Please remove the Veteran Ranks now instead of waiting.

Arato

Iago wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Iago wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

Iago wrote: »

compared insane amount of XP you needed to gain veteran ranks before the 1 million experience points you need now are nothing.

thats just being silly. its all about how you can get the xp required not about how much numerically that is

sure vet lvls are 1mill.. when i went from vet 10-12 on my first toon. i did it in 2 hours the first day craglorn came out before they fixed Kardala about 3 days later.. that was about 11 million in 2 hours.

now to get the same vet 10-12 would take me about 20 hours i guess. even tho its only 2 million xp

so should i come on here are and tell folk "hey its all good its only 2 million xp now" ?

You are 100% correct in the fact that it does take longer to earn the XP however now if you do all of silver and gold you will be VR14 long before finishing craglorb.

Honestly I don't see why everyohas such.a hard on for horizintal progression. When 50 becomes level cap that just means no more actual progress It will feel like inward is accomplishing nothing at all.

No you won't. People are finishing Gold at VR10 or 11, and there's not enough quests in Craglorn to get 3 ranks unless you're dutifully doing repeats every day.

I was 100k shy of VR2 when I finally faced Molag no Balls in coldharnour. Right now my tion is about 15k shy or VR5 and I am almost through the third AD area which is my silver zone. At this rate I will be VR12 or so by the time AI finish gold. Again I will have made VR14 well before finishing Craglorn.


People who are coming up short on levels are skipping content or doing everything in groups causing diminishing XP based on the numbers of players in the group. The beauty ofbthe game as it stands it has been nerfwd to the point everything can be soloed with the exception of big dungeons like spindleclutch or crypt of hearts.

If you want a sure fire way to overlevel your vet zones you could always through the exploration trait on all your gear.

You must spend a few hours in each zone running in circles grinding to make up the xp difference because there are zones with 750k xp or less worth of quests and objectives in them.

Glurin

mb-pepeb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm nearly crying, reached vt after 50 epic level, and I'm now doing quest in the wrong side. Killing wolves somewhere I don"t want to be after became the hero of my faction. I'm helping a king I would rather kill... This is stupid.

It's a little bit weird, I agree. But on the other hand it gives you a way to experience the other two factions without being forced to use an alt. That part I do like.

I also agree that it does feel like a very, very long slog through a swamp to get to VR14 though. I've always felt that hitting max level should be an accomplishment as opposed to a gimme, but there's something off about it here.

Seraphyel

bg22 wrote: »

Can we get any official word on the estimated time of VR removal ZoS?

Because, I'm really annoyed by it more and more every single day. And it'll eventually annoy me (and thousands of other players) enough to quit for good... Sadly. (And I don't want that... Because I enjoy this game thoroughly, and want to continue to play it).

Not before console launch.

Guppet

There has been a huge change in how xp is gained that a lot of people who levels under the old VR rather than experience system may not be aware of.

In the old system, you could do just the Cadwells quests in a zone, with all delves, world bosses and dolmans and get 80% of a VR level, just for them.

Under the new system, that Gould give you about 20% of a VR level.

That's a huge change, I much preferred the old method.

Iago

Arato wrote: »

Iago wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Iago wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

Iago wrote: »

compared insane amount of XP you needed to gain veteran ranks before the 1 million experience points you need now are nothing.

thats just being silly. its all about how you can get the xp required not about how much numerically that is

sure vet lvls are 1mill.. when i went from vet 10-12 on my first toon. i did it in 2 hours the first day craglorn came out before they fixed Kardala about 3 days later.. that was about 11 million in 2 hours.

now to get the same vet 10-12 would take me about 20 hours i guess. even tho its only 2 million xp

so should i come on here are and tell folk "hey its all good its only 2 million xp now" ?

You are 100% correct in the fact that it does take longer to earn the XP however now if you do all of silver and gold you will be VR14 long before finishing craglorb.

Honestly I don't see why everyohas such.a hard on for horizintal progression. When 50 becomes level cap that just means no more actual progress It will feel like inward is accomplishing nothing at all.

No you won't. People are finishing Gold at VR10 or 11, and there's not enough quests in Craglorn to get 3 ranks unless you're dutifully doing repeats every day.

I was 100k shy of VR2 when I finally faced Molag no Balls in coldharnour. Right now my tion is about 15k shy or VR5 and I am almost through the third AD area which is my silver zone. At this rate I will be VR12 or so by the time AI finish gold. Again I will have made VR14 well before finishing Craglorn.


People who are coming up short on levels are skipping content or doing everything in groups causing diminishing XP based on the numbers of players in the group. The beauty ofbthe game as it stands it has been nerfwd to the point everything can be soloed with the exception of big dungeons like spindleclutch or crypt of hearts.

If you want a sure fire way to overlevel your vet zones you could always through the exploration trait on all your gear.

You must spend a few hours in each zone running in circles grinding to make up the xp difference because there are zones with 750k xp or less worth of quests and objectives in them.

no grinding necessary. I just make sure I clear all content including skyshards public dungeons and world bosses etc.

Horrum

bg22 wrote: »

I literally cannot stand to level to max again. I'm VR3 (gained V1-V3 doing solo PvP in Cyrodiil) and I cannot PvE for more than 30 seconds without losing complete interest so much so that I either re-enter Cyrodiil, or exit the game.

I know they plan to remove the Veteran Ranks in June, but why wait..? Just do it. I cannot push myself to go through another 100 levels worth of content for a second time...

No video-game should be painful in any aspect, and V1-V14 is just that, painful.

It does NOTHING good for the game. It creates GIGANTIC gaps between players, nothing more, nothing less. That is simply it. A gap creating element.

People who are really only interested in PvP become frustrated because they are nearly worhtless until around V10, and simply feel turned off to the game because they have to PvE.

Players who want to complete in the PvE that really matters (once you've loyally defended your alliance), only want to get sweet gear from dungeon runs (trials, etc.) and compete for top times, raid with friends, etc..

But they're forced to become a traitor and defend the other alliances (which many of us dispise).

ZoS... Please just remove them now. It does NOTHING to help your game. In fact, it really, really just hurts it.

I don't see Vet ranks remaining. I fully agree with you and would be extremely surprised if ZOS decided they should remain. I mean, why implement CP then? I have a V14 and a V11 (almost done with Gold the 2nd time around) and I find it strange how precious some people are about their vet ranks. Hell, want to keep v14? Put reasonable grind spots back. I can't see another quest.

AngryNord

bg22 wrote: »

Can we get any official word on the estimated time of VR removal ZoS?

Never

EQBallzz

Varicite wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

I'm on my third character and I'm getting a bit sick of it myself but if they remove the vet levels how will people earn CP at a reasonable rate? Especially for those who don't PvP it would be a disaster with the current structure of the CS. Not to mention all the issues with compacting gear and levels. Sorry but I don't think this is going to happen without it absolutely ruining the game.

Yeah, I guess it's just to just go halfway through a plan and just stop because some posters think it might not be easy.

That totally stopped them when implementing CS, converting the entire game to B2P, redoing all of the sets in the entire game, continually working on bugs and issues, rebalancing stam / magicka, etc.

The simple fact is that removing VRs is the plan, and we have already implemented the first 3 phases of this plan. Removing VRs and implementing Season gear is the last step.

Why stop now?

Think of all the GOOD that will come of it, instead of being scared of change. After all, if nothing happens, then nothing happens, and pretty much anyone can tell you that interest in this game spiked when it lost the sub but is waning pretty again pretty quickly now.

You'd be quite naive to think that the prohibitively tedious VR grind that must be done on every single character that you make has nothing to do w/ that.

I don't know that it will bring any actual good. It will mostly just bring a warm and fuzzy feeling to those who don't like leveling and think (mistakenly) that they will be "max" level at 50 and be "done". That will of course not be the case because there will be endless champion points to earn which will require..you guessed it..questing in the other factions to gain XP. Nothing is actually changing.

There is also the little issue of gear. How will they normalize gear from V14 to 50? It's unlikely that all vet gear will be thrown in the dumpster and all gear would be downgraded to level 50. It's also unlikely that all lvl 50 gear will suddenly be raised to V14. The most likely scenario will be tiered armor of some kind that is tied to the CS which means..you guessed it..grinding levels to wear that gear.

Then there is crafting. What happens to all the crafting skills tied to the veteran ranks? What happens to all the raw materials for the armor for veteran ranks? This will require a complete reworking and it wouldn't surprise me if they had to tie that to the CS as well which would again..you guessed it..require more grinding in the CS.

When you consider that you are just trading one identical activity for another..and you also consider the immense amount of rework required just to give the illusion of max level..it just doesn't make much logical or practical sense to remove the levels. I'm not afraid of change and I'm not sticking up for the veteran system but it just doesn't make sense to remove it now that it's in place. I would rather see that work/effort go into more content released more quickly not re-arranging the deck chairs (so to speak) for little actual benefit.

Malmai

Needs to be reworked...

Raash

Just add a choice when molag baal is defeated: "Im a Traitor - I wanna play the other alliances too" and "Im done - I hit vet 14 instantly and do what i want."
Problem solved.

Endurance

in guild wars 2 alot of people have 100% map completion on 9 diff characters and do you see them complaining? no

also doing map completion in GW2 takes way longer than finishing cadwell silver & gold because it requires you to:

- finish the main storyline

- run all around the PVP maps and WvWvW maps

- swim underwater in some very confusing underwater terrains

- finish alot of the instanced dungeons on storyline & full party mode

Anoteros

Endurance wrote: »

in guild wars 2 alot of people have 100% map completion on 9 diff characters and do you see them complaining? no

also doing map completion in GW2 takes way longer than finishing cadwell silver & gold because it requires you to:

- finish the main storyline

- run all around the PVP maps and WvWvW maps

- swim underwater in some very confusing underwater terrains

- finish alot of the instanced dungeons on storyline & full party mode

They're not forced to essentially grind out levels just to see some end game content...Veteran ranks were a terrible idea by ZOS to hide the fact there's very little to do at end game and also creates a content barrier between level 50's...

The sooner Vet levels are gone the better for everyone. The grind is not worth the time investment. Subbed or not.

Varicite

EQBallzz wrote: »

I don't know that it will bring any actual good. It will mostly just bring a warm and fuzzy feeling to those who don't like leveling and think (mistakenly) that they will be "max" level at 50 and be "done". That will of course not be the case because there will be endless champion points to earn which will require..you guessed it..questing in the other factions to gain XP. Nothing is actually changing.

I disagree categorically w/ this statement. Yes, you will have to get geared (just like now) and you'll have to do stuff for CP, etc. However, unlike NOW, there won't be a gigantic frustrating gap of utter boredom from V1-V14 BEFORE you can do any of those things to meaninfully advance your character.

You won't HAVE to quest in the other factions just to get to that point, however you'll still be able to do that if you WANT to. Instead of a forced slog, it would be your choice for those who do enjoy questing in other factions.

How is that not better in every way?

EQBallzz wrote: »

There is also the little issue of gear. How will they normalize gear from V14 to 50? It's unlikely that all vet gear will be thrown in the dumpster and all gear would be downgraded to level 50. It's also unlikely that all lvl 50 gear will suddenly be raised to V14. The most likely scenario will be tiered armor of some kind that is tied to the CS which means..you guessed it..grinding levels to wear that gear.

They have actually talked about this a bit. While nobody knows exactly what they'll do w/ the current gear in-game (they don't really know what they'll do to convert VR to "normal", after all), they have laid out a plan to introduce Season Gear which will basically always be about the best when it comes out and give players a challenge to obtain (think Arena season gear from WoW, but PvE-oriented).

When new Seasons come out, previous seasons' gear will become easier to obtain so as not to prohibit newer players from entering the endgame scene (which is pretty much the exact OPPOSITE of the VR system blocking new players from participating).

EQBallzz wrote: »

Then there is crafting. What happens to all the crafting skills tied to the veteran ranks? What happens to all the raw materials for the armor for veteran ranks? This will require a complete reworking and it wouldn't surprise me if they had to tie that to the CS as well which would again..you guessed it..require more grinding in the CS.

They could just as easily just remove all of the crafting ranks past lv50 (just like they have previously removed mats in the Provisioning rework), or convert the VRs to normal levels (ie: lv64 cap).

Without knowing their ideas for converting VR into normal levels, it really becomes flailing around in the dark trying to come up w/ ideas for the crafting skills post-50. When the former is more solidified, the latter becomes easier to see, as they are hard-linked. Before that happens, I kinda find worrying about one w/out knowing the other futile.

EQBallzz wrote: »

When you consider that you are just trading one identical activity for another..

Again, you aren't actually doing this. You are cutting the longest and most tedious and unnecessary part OUT of the equation before you can CHOOSE which endgame activities you want to do. Completely different.

EQBallzz wrote: »

and you also consider the immense amount of rework required just to give the illusion of max level..it just doesn't make much logical or practical sense to remove the levels. I'm not afraid of change and I'm not sticking up for the veteran system but it just doesn't make sense to remove it now that it's in place. I would rather see that work/effort go into more content released more quickly not re-arranging the deck chairs (so to speak) for little actual benefit.

See, people seem to think that removing VRs is separate from the past 6 months of reworking the game; it's not, it's the REASON why we've been doing all of this rebalancing. When you consider the immense amount of time and effort that has ALREADY gone into the rework, it doesn't make much logical or practical sense to just give up in the middle of it.

I would rather see that work/effort go into more content released AFTER a system that is mostly known for driving players away from the game in droves has been replaced.

Raash

Endurance wrote: »

in guild wars 2 alot of people have 100% map completion on 9 diff characters and do you see them complaining? no

also doing map completion in GW2 takes way longer than finishing cadwell silver & gold because it requires you to:

- finish the main storyline

- run all around the PVP maps and WvWvW maps

- swim underwater in some very confusing underwater terrains

- finish alot of the instanced dungeons on storyline & full party mode

I do not remember being forced to go that route to hit max lvl in gw2 tho. It was OPTIONAL and rewarded a title and some item if i remember correctly. Pretty much like the skyshard hunting is in this game.

Seraphyel

Endurance wrote: »

in guild wars 2 alot of people have 100% map completion on 9 diff characters and do you see them complaining? no

also doing map completion in GW2 takes way longer than finishing cadwell silver & gold because it requires you to:

- finish the main storyline

- run all around the PVP maps and WvWvW maps

- swim underwater in some very confusing underwater terrains

- finish alot of the instanced dungeons on storyline & full party mode

Map completion is fun. I love those jump mini games, I love exploring the world, I love doing all that stuff - it's fun. Even with more than one character.

VR is never fun. Not with the first and for sure not with the second, third or fourth character.

Map completion gives you very good rewards and it's optional content.

And the most important point: map completion is ALWAYS rewarding because you are downscaled to the zones level. Even with level 60 you can level in the 20-30 zone, getting adjusted rewards and XP for level 60.

Arato

Iago wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Iago wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Iago wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

Iago wrote: »

compared insane amount of XP you needed to gain veteran ranks before the 1 million experience points you need now are nothing.

thats just being silly. its all about how you can get the xp required not about how much numerically that is

sure vet lvls are 1mill.. when i went from vet 10-12 on my first toon. i did it in 2 hours the first day craglorn came out before they fixed Kardala about 3 days later.. that was about 11 million in 2 hours.

now to get the same vet 10-12 would take me about 20 hours i guess. even tho its only 2 million xp

so should i come on here are and tell folk "hey its all good its only 2 million xp now" ?

You are 100% correct in the fact that it does take longer to earn the XP however now if you do all of silver and gold you will be VR14 long before finishing craglorb.

Honestly I don't see why everyohas such.a hard on for horizintal progression. When 50 becomes level cap that just means no more actual progress It will feel like inward is accomplishing nothing at all.

No you won't. People are finishing Gold at VR10 or 11, and there's not enough quests in Craglorn to get 3 ranks unless you're dutifully doing repeats every day.

I was 100k shy of VR2 when I finally faced Molag no Balls in coldharnour. Right now my tion is about 15k shy or VR5 and I am almost through the third AD area which is my silver zone. At this rate I will be VR12 or so by the time AI finish gold. Again I will have made VR14 well before finishing Craglorn.


People who are coming up short on levels are skipping content or doing everything in groups causing diminishing XP based on the numbers of players in the group. The beauty ofbthe game as it stands it has been nerfwd to the point everything can be soloed with the exception of big dungeons like spindleclutch or crypt of hearts.

If you want a sure fire way to overlevel your vet zones you could always through the exploration trait on all your gear.

You must spend a few hours in each zone running in circles grinding to make up the xp difference because there are zones with 750k xp or less worth of quests and objectives in them.

no grinding necessary. I just make sure I clear all content including skyshards public dungeons and world bosses etc.

I did all the same things, and even went back through every area checking for any quests I may have missed, and there are some zones that fall well short of granting a Veteran Rank.

Most people end up somewhere between VR 10 and 11 by the time finishing Cadwell's gold.

EQBallzz

Varicite wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

I don't know that it will bring any actual good. It will mostly just bring a warm and fuzzy feeling to those who don't like leveling and think (mistakenly) that they will be "max" level at 50 and be "done". That will of course not be the case because there will be endless champion points to earn which will require..you guessed it..questing in the other factions to gain XP. Nothing is actually changing.

I disagree categorically w/ this statement. Yes, you will have to get geared (just like now) and you'll have to do stuff for CP, etc. However, unlike NOW, there won't be a gigantic frustrating gap of utter boredom from V1-V14 BEFORE you can do any of those things to meaninfully advance your character.

You won't HAVE to quest in the other factions just to get to that point, however you'll still be able to do that if you WANT to. Instead of a forced slog, it would be your choice for those who do enjoy questing in other factions.

How is that not better in every way?

That's my point. You say it's a choice but it's a false choice. If they remove the vet levels but instead require certain levels of CP to wear certain gear or participate in trials you will not really have a choice. You will still be required to do those other factions for CP. You say you would not have to but have you tried gaining CP with a V14 character that has no silver/gold content left? It's a painful experience so there really is no choice and even if you choose to gain those CP by grinding or doing PvP..you have that choice now. Just grind and PvP to earn vet levels (and CP) if that is such a great choice. It's the same thing.

EQBallzz wrote: »

There is also the little issue of gear. How will they normalize gear from V14 to 50? It's unlikely that all vet gear will be thrown in the dumpster and all gear would be downgraded to level 50. It's also unlikely that all lvl 50 gear will suddenly be raised to V14. The most likely scenario will be tiered armor of some kind that is tied to the CS which means..you guessed it..grinding levels to wear that gear.

They have actually talked about this a bit. While nobody knows exactly what they'll do w/ the current gear in-game (they don't really know what they'll do to convert VR to "normal", after all), they have laid out a plan to introduce Season Gear which will basically always be about the best when it comes out and give players a challenge to obtain (think Arena season gear from WoW, but PvE-oriented).

When new Seasons come out, previous seasons' gear will become easier to obtain so as not to prohibit newer players from entering the endgame scene (which is pretty much the exact OPPOSITE of the VR system blocking new players from participating).

I'm aware of their comments about seasonal gear and that's fine but that can be done with or without vet levels so has nothing to do with my comment. Like you mentioned they haven't exactly explained what they will do to convert existing vet gear/crafting to "normal" which is my point. It's a lot of work that could be spent on actual content (that could even be scaling content to give people more options outside of the silver/gold content to level. Wouldn't you rather they spent that huge amount of time on adding new ways to level instead of endlessly rearranging existing content that doesn't change much?

EQBallzz wrote: »

Then there is crafting. What happens to all the crafting skills tied to the veteran ranks? What happens to all the raw materials for the armor for veteran ranks? This will require a complete reworking and it wouldn't surprise me if they had to tie that to the CS as well which would again..you guessed it..require more grinding in the CS.

They could just as easily just remove all of the crafting ranks past lv50 (just like they have previously removed mats in the Provisioning rework), or convert the VRs to normal levels (ie: lv64 cap).

Without knowing their ideas for converting VR into normal levels, it really becomes flailing around in the dark trying to come up w/ ideas for the crafting skills post-50. When the former is more solidified, the latter becomes easier to see, as they are hard-linked. Before that happens, I kinda find worrying about one w/out knowing the other futile.

Remove all the vet mats? I don't think it's that easy. A huge amount of the crafting system is tied to those materials and it would completely trivialize the crafting system to remove more than half of it. We haven't heard their ideas because there are no good ways to condense down 64 levels of content into 50 without trivializing the content. The only way to not do that is to tie those levels of crafting to the CS system which would be the exact same thing as vet levels so my point stands. Unless they reveal some revelation to the contrary but I'm not holding my breath.

Also, if they remove the vet levels but add 14 "normal" levels to 64 like you suggest..how is that any different than vet levels? That makes literally no sense. By all means change the name from vet levels to "normal" levels but that would change exactly nothing.

EQBallzz wrote: »

When you consider that you are just trading one identical activity for another..

Again, you aren't actually doing this. You are cutting the longest and most tedious and unnecessary part OUT of the equation before you can CHOOSE which endgame activities you want to do. Completely different.

If they remove vet levels but participating in trials requires a minimum of 200 CP to have any chance for success..nothing is being cut out. You are just exchanging vet levels for CP. If you really think that a fresh lvl 50 with no CP will be able to just jump into 12 man trials and win you are deluded. And in the extremely unlikely event that this was the case the game would be a trivial joke and the entire CP system would be completely unnecessary. AGAIN..you are getting a FALSE choice.

EQBallzz wrote: »

and you also consider the immense amount of rework required just to give the illusion of max level..it just doesn't make much logical or practical sense to remove the levels. I'm not afraid of change and I'm not sticking up for the veteran system but it just doesn't make sense to remove it now that it's in place. I would rather see that work/effort go into more content released more quickly not re-arranging the deck chairs (so to speak) for little actual benefit.

See, people seem to think that removing VRs is separate from the past 6 months of reworking the game; it's not, it's the REASON why we've been doing all of this rebalancing. When you consider the immense amount of time and effort that has ALREADY gone into the rework, it doesn't make much logical or practical sense to just give up in the middle of it.

I would rather see that work/effort go into more content released AFTER a system that is mostly known for driving players away from the game in droves has been replaced.

I understand that this is part of a process to remove vet levels but that doesn't mean it makes sense or that it's a good idea. Had they developed the game with 50 levels to start with and then added the CS on top of that later that would be one thing but that isn't what happened. Now that the vet levels are here and people have already spent the time to complete them and the crafting system is built around them and the game difficulty is structured around them..it's not a simple task to just cut it out without causing a massive disruption to the existing game.

Don't get me wrong..I'm not saying the vet level system was the greatest idea and I'm not a huge fan of playing multiple factions as a requirement but I just think it's a bit late to change something so fundamental to the game at this point. If they attempt this I think it will cause major problems.

Arato

Endurance wrote: »

in guild wars 2 alot of people have 100% map completion on 9 diff characters and do you see them complaining? no

also doing map completion in GW2 takes way longer than finishing cadwell silver & gold because it requires you to:

- finish the main storyline

- run all around the PVP maps and WvWvW maps

- swim underwater in some very confusing underwater terrains

- finish alot of the instanced dungeons on storyline & full party mode

This is false on a lot of levels.

You can finish world completion without doing any personal story quests
Only PVE and WvW maps had to be done (PVP maps were never a part of map completion, just wvw), and this is now removed from the requirements. Not even dungeon POI's counted towards world completion. Just landscape zones and cities.
There is some underwater POI's, skill points, and a few hearts, but they're not that confusing.
You don't have to finish any dungeons.

I've completed GW2 map completion twice. One of the characters has only done one story mode dungeon, and I completed personal story AFTER getting world completion on that character.

and people do complain about doing world completion multiple times, if they're building more than 2 legendary weapons. However most people don't complain because it's OPTIONAL. You're not required to do world completion for anything other than crafting legendary weapons, which are the same statwise as ascended weapons, just with fancier skins.

I don't feel compelled to do world completion on the other 5 level 80's I have, because they can do personal story, living story, fractals, wvw, spvp, and explorable dungeons without having done it and not be penalized for it at all. They're on the same footing as someone who's done world completion they just don't have a star next to their name. I have it on 2 characters because I've made 2 legendary weapons and wanted to have more gifts of exploration for future legendary weapons. When I use up those 2, maybe I'll revisit the idea of world completion on a 3rd character.

here? I feel compelled to do silver/gold because if I tried doing Trials at VR1 nobody will take me. if I try doing veteran dungeon pledges at VR1, I might get taken depending on role (probably not as a tank) and scaling, but fewer groups will be willing to take me over someone higher veteran rank. if I PVP at VR1 I'm fodder for VR14's, I'm not on equal footing with them at all.

Varicite

EQBallzz wrote: »

I'm not saying the vet level system was the greatest idea and I'm not a huge fan of playing multiple factions as a requirement but I just think it's a bit late to change something so fundamental to the game at this point. If they attempt this I think it will cause major problems.[/b]

It's already IN THE PROCESS of being changed.

What do you think we have been doing for the past 6 months? Why do you think Champ Points exist? Why do you think 1.6 happened?

Why do you think the game is being rebalanced? This is ALL part of removing VRs.

A lot of post seems to be based upon false assumptions or simple misinformation, which is actually quite common when this topic is discussed.

There were actually a fair few more points that I would've liked to reply to, but I simply don't have the time at this moment. Perhaps later. : )

Iago

Arato wrote: »

Iago wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Iago wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Iago wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

Iago wrote: »

compared insane amount of XP you needed to gain veteran ranks before the 1 million experience points you need now are nothing.

thats just being silly. its all about how you can get the xp required not about how much numerically that is

sure vet lvls are 1mill.. when i went from vet 10-12 on my first toon. i did it in 2 hours the first day craglorn came out before they fixed Kardala about 3 days later.. that was about 11 million in 2 hours.

now to get the same vet 10-12 would take me about 20 hours i guess. even tho its only 2 million xp

so should i come on here are and tell folk "hey its all good its only 2 million xp now" ?

You are 100% correct in the fact that it does take longer to earn the XP however now if you do all of silver and gold you will be VR14 long before finishing craglorb.

Honestly I don't see why everyohas such.a hard on for horizintal progression. When 50 becomes level cap that just means no more actual progress It will feel like inward is accomplishing nothing at all.

No you won't. People are finishing Gold at VR10 or 11, and there's not enough quests in Craglorn to get 3 ranks unless you're dutifully doing repeats every day.

I was 100k shy of VR2 when I finally faced Molag no Balls in coldharnour. Right now my tion is about 15k shy or VR5 and I am almost through the third AD area which is my silver zone. At this rate I will be VR12 or so by the time AI finish gold. Again I will have made VR14 well before finishing Craglorn.


People who are coming up short on levels are skipping content or doing everything in groups causing diminishing XP based on the numbers of players in the group. The beauty ofbthe game as it stands it has been nerfwd to the point everything can be soloed with the exception of big dungeons like spindleclutch or crypt of hearts.

If you want a sure fire way to overlevel your vet zones you could always through the exploration trait on all your gear.

You must spend a few hours in each zone running in circles grinding to make up the xp difference because there are zones with 750k xp or less worth of quests and objectives in them.

no grinding necessary. I just make sure I clear all content including skyshards public dungeons and world bosses etc.

I did all the same things, and even went back through every area checking for any quests I may have missed, and there are some zones that fall well short of granting a Veteran Rank.

Most people end up somewhere between VR 10 and 11 by the time finishing Cadwell's gold.

are you using any exploration traits on your gear? that will make a difference.

infraction2008b16_ESO

Varicite wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

I'm not saying the vet level system was the greatest idea and I'm not a huge fan of playing multiple factions as a requirement but I just think it's a bit late to change something so fundamental to the game at this point. If they attempt this I think it will cause major problems.[/b]

It's already IN THE PROCESS of being changed.

What do you think we have been doing for the past 6 months? Why do you think Champ Points exist? Why do you think 1.6 happened?

Why do you think the game is being rebalanced? This is ALL part of removing VRs.

Yep or at least was... the fact they aren't going to do much until console release might mean they are actually being reluctant to push towards the next phase being removal of vet ranks.

If it does happen I hope it's a 50 level cap and not 64.

I_killed_Vivec

Varicite wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

I'm not saying the vet level system was the greatest idea and I'm not a huge fan of playing multiple factions as a requirement but I just think it's a bit late to change something so fundamental to the game at this point. If they attempt this I think it will cause major problems.[/b]

It's already IN THE PROCESS of being changed.

What do you think we have been doing for the past 6 months? Why do you think Champ Points exist? Why do you think 1.6 happened?

Why do you think the game is being rebalanced? This is ALL part of removing VRs.

A lot of post seems to be based upon false assumptions or simple misinformation, which is actually quite common when this topic is discussed.

There were actually a fair few more points that I would've liked to reply to, but I simply don't have the time at this moment. Perhaps later. : )

It was in the process of being changed.

Back in January when they were almost ready to put the CS on the PTS they heralded the introduction of CS, apologized for the time it had taken and explained that it had required a complete rebalance of the whole game: "not something that we want to do again in a hurry, for obvious reasons".

Since then, ZoS have done several things that cement VR further into the game - from power scaling to the introduction of VR10 food and Crown Store potions that up-scale as you progress...

They have also talked about scaling DLC - to increase the market for it because it's open to everyone. I'm sure VR is the mechanism they will use to implement scaling. What else can they use? Champion Points? And alienate all those who haven't reached level 50?

I also think that they have realized that crafting is an important feature of the game and that they have no way to support it without VR. Indeed the idea of "Seasonal" gear is in direct opposition to crafting - I think it was an idea that was mentioned and then they thought about it and it hasn't been mentioned since. But we're not just talking about gear - it's the enchants that go on it, it's the food and drink you can use, the strength of potions you can use.

All tied to your "progression".

Why haven't VR been removed yet? Why hasn't PvP Justice been introduced? What has happened to Spellcrafting? They all require too much of an upheaval, too much of a rebalance, too much change in a period when ZoS said the game need time to be "allowed to breathe"...

And to answer the question Why Champion Points?

Because it keeps us busy.

EQBallzz

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

I'm not saying the vet level system was the greatest idea and I'm not a huge fan of playing multiple factions as a requirement but I just think it's a bit late to change something so fundamental to the game at this point. If they attempt this I think it will cause major problems.[/b]

It's already IN THE PROCESS of being changed.

What do you think we have been doing for the past 6 months? Why do you think Champ Points exist? Why do you think 1.6 happened?

Why do you think the game is being rebalanced? This is ALL part of removing VRs.

A lot of post seems to be based upon false assumptions or simple misinformation, which is actually quite common when this topic is discussed.

There were actually a fair few more points that I would've liked to reply to, but I simply don't have the time at this moment. Perhaps later. : )

It was in the process of being changed.

Back in January when they were almost ready to put the CS on the PTS they heralded the introduction of CS, apologized for the time it had taken and explained that it had required a complete rebalance of the whole game: "not something that we want to do again in a hurry, for obvious reasons".

Since then, ZoS have done several things that cement VR further into the game - from power scaling to the introduction of VR10 food and Crown Store potions that up-scale as you progress...

They have also talked about scaling DLC - to increase the market for it because it's open to everyone. I'm sure VR is the mechanism they will use to implement scaling. What else can they use? Champion Points? And alienate all those who haven't reached level 50?

I also think that they have realized that crafting is an important feature of the game and that they have no way to support it without VR. Indeed the idea of "Seasonal" gear is in direct opposition to crafting - I think it was an idea that was mentioned and then they thought about it and it hasn't been mentioned since. But we're not just talking about gear - it's the enchants that go on it, it's the food and drink you can use, the strength of potions you can use.

All tied to your "progression".

Why haven't VR been removed yet? Why hasn't PvP Justice been introduced? What has happened to Spellcrafting? They all require too much of an upheaval, too much of a rebalance, too much change in a period when ZoS said the game need time to be "allowed to breathe"...

And to answer the question Why Champion Points?

Because it keeps us busy.

Exactly. Just because removing VR was part of the plan or even the reason for the plan doesn't mean things won't change (or haven't already changed). I mean you could say the same thing about any number of things that were supposed to be one way but ZOS changed course (payment model for instance). Even if they would ultimately like to get rid of VR I think it's likely they have already determined that it's too difficult to implement. Like you said..many things have already been added after this plan was in action that further cement the VR system which makes no sense if they plan on removing it.

What you might see is a further nerfing of VR content to make it less painful. Maybe change the vet levels to "normal" levels and shrink it from 64 levels total to 60 and monkey around with the XP gain and/or the total XP needed per level. That is something much more workable that would allow for the current progression system to remain semi-intact.

mitchav66

I didnt know they were going to remove the veteran ranks in June! What are they going to replace it with?

Tiitus

Endurance wrote: »

in guild wars 2 alot of people have 100% map completion on 9 diff characters and do you see them complaining? no

also doing map completion in GW2 takes way longer than finishing cadwell silver & gold because it requires you to:

- finish the main storyline

- run all around the PVP maps and WvWvW maps

- swim underwater in some very confusing underwater terrains

- finish alot of the instanced dungeons on storyline & full party mode

In gw2 you dont need full map completion to do endgame.. in gw2 yur "example" is a choice which means it doesnt feel like a grind.

ppl like a sense of accomplishment when they play mmos or any other game.. its a hobby, not a job. we/i get that i need to go from x to xx but when that process is long and drawn out for the sake of developer laziness the game is no longer fun, it becomes a job, so while yur friends are all laughing and carrying on in the top tier content becuz you joined the game late and the exp is F**ked to all hell.. you lose interested and eventually quit.. who wants to play an mmo by themselves and listen to everyone else in their circle enjoying the "meaningful" content? no one.

Palidon

ZOS priority is going to console the writing is on the wall. All the PC game is after VR14 is repeatable content. The only new adventure zone that has been released since going live is Craglorn. And in a nut shell its repeatable content. So are the Trials, and Undaunted Pledges. How many times do you want to do the same stuff over and over again. They have not and I doubt will introduce any new adventure zones to explore or fix any of the many issues sill left unattended. So why worry about getting rid of veteran levels/ranks. PvP is a wreck, PvE is now starting to have constant load screen issues, lag, crashes to desktop, sound loss, animation freezes etc and those issues seem to be getting worse and worse and more constant.

AlnilamE

Varicite wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

then maybe they should increase the exp gain in craglorn like it was in the past.. instead of everyone making topics about removing VR why not everyone complain about craglorn and the low exp gain?

That's not the only issue at hand here.

I posted this in another thread, but I think it applies very well to the topic at hand:

Removing VRs finally allows players the CHOICE of endgame activities, instead of either A) questing for eternity or B ) AoE grinding for eternity just to get to the point where they can finally DO something meaningful.

Now instead of the VR grind, you hit 50 and IF you want to do Cadwell's, you can do that. IF you want to go to Craglorn, you can do that too. IF you want to PvP, hop right in. IF you want to focus on dungeons / Trials, you aren't prohibited anymore by the grind.

That's what the whole point of this Champion system change was, to allow players more freedom in their endgame activities. They had a somewhat solid idea to replace the progression that the VR system allowed through the Season Gear system and Champion Points.

They just need to follow through and the game will very likely be better for it.

You know, the only one of the things listed that you really can't do at V1 is trials. Everything else, it's your choice. I've done PvP as a level 30ish character against Vet players and I felt I was contributing. I don't know why everyone thinks they need to be V14 to be effective in PvP. Stop shackling yourself with silly notions and go enjoy the game!

I don't care if we have vet levels or not, or if we have a champion system or not. I just one everyone who comes here that says "vet levels are boring because there is no new content" to realize that the reason we don't have new content yet (I'm looking at you Imperial City!) is because of the huge amount of development resources that's being poured into the Champion System and the removal of the Vet levels.

So pick one thing to complain about, because you can't have your cake and eat it too!

bg22

AlnilamE wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

then maybe they should increase the exp gain in craglorn like it was in the past.. instead of everyone making topics about removing VR why not everyone complain about craglorn and the low exp gain?

That's not the only issue at hand here.

I posted this in another thread, but I think it applies very well to the topic at hand:

Removing VRs finally allows players the CHOICE of endgame activities, instead of either A) questing for eternity or B ) AoE grinding for eternity just to get to the point where they can finally DO something meaningful.

Now instead of the VR grind, you hit 50 and IF you want to do Cadwell's, you can do that. IF you want to go to Craglorn, you can do that too. IF you want to PvP, hop right in. IF you want to focus on dungeons / Trials, you aren't prohibited anymore by the grind.

That's what the whole point of this Champion system change was, to allow players more freedom in their endgame activities. They had a somewhat solid idea to replace the progression that the VR system allowed through the Season Gear system and Champion Points.

They just need to follow through and the game will very likely be better for it.

You know, the only one of the things listed that you really can't do at V1 is trials. Everything else, it's your choice. I've done PvP as a level 30ish character against Vet players and I felt I was contributing. I don't know why everyone thinks they need to be V14 to be effective in PvP. Stop shackling yourself with silly notions and go enjoy the game!

I don't care if we have vet levels or not, or if we have a champion system or not. I just one everyone who comes here that says "vet levels are boring because there is no new content" to realize that the reason we don't have new content yet (I'm looking at you Imperial City!) is because of the huge amount of development resources that's being poured into the Champion System and the removal of the Vet levels.

So pick one thing to complain about, because you can't have your cake and eat it too!

Bud... Your idea of "Contributing" to PvP is different from persons who actually contribute.

First off, I'm only VR3 on my new main (because I'm the OP and CANNOT stand to go through the VR content AGAIN) and when I encounter anyone below VR in Cyrodiil, I literally toy with them. I'll hit them a little, then jump around and let them hit me, thinking that they have a chance... Once they've healed a bit, I'll hit them again and they normally try to run, then I'll laughingly finish them.

Second, if you manage to find a group to follow around as a low level character, you'll quickly find that you need a fast horse because nobody is going to waste a Soul Gem to rez you.

"Feeling like you contributed" and actually contributing are two different things.

Third, as far as PvE goes, you cannot finish your main story line, reach VR1 and then be welcomed into VR dungeon groups. People just don't really do that.

So, as it would seem.. The guy you quoted was correct on every point... and didn't "contribute" false opinions, like someone I know.

milkbox

bg22 wrote: »

Bud... Your idea of "Contributing" to PvP is different from persons who actually contribute.

First off, I'm only VR3 on my new main (because I'm the OP and CANNOT stand to go through the VR content AGAIN) and when I encounter anyone below VR in Cyrodiil, I literally toy with them. I'll hit them a little, then jump around and let them hit me, thinking that they have a chance... Once they've healed a bit, I'll hit them again and they normally try to run, then I'll laughingly finish them.

Second, if you manage to find a group to follow around as a low level character, you'll quickly find that you need a fast horse because nobody is going to waste a Soul Gem to rez you.

"Feeling like you contributed" and actually contributing are two different things.

If nobody is "wasting a soul gem" to rez you, you're probably not contributing. My VR2 bow sorc does daily kill quests easily- I rez everybody I can, and I get rezzes in return. And all of this solo, just following groups. Plus, killing NPCs and guards in Cyro has bumped me up at least one VR level, in between the Cadwell nonsense.

The idea that you can't be good in pvp under VR14 is hogwash.

AlnilamE

bg22 wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

then maybe they should increase the exp gain in craglorn like it was in the past.. instead of everyone making topics about removing VR why not everyone complain about craglorn and the low exp gain?

That's not the only issue at hand here.

I posted this in another thread, but I think it applies very well to the topic at hand:

Removing VRs finally allows players the CHOICE of endgame activities, instead of either A) questing for eternity or B ) AoE grinding for eternity just to get to the point where they can finally DO something meaningful.

Now instead of the VR grind, you hit 50 and IF you want to do Cadwell's, you can do that. IF you want to go to Craglorn, you can do that too. IF you want to PvP, hop right in. IF you want to focus on dungeons / Trials, you aren't prohibited anymore by the grind.

That's what the whole point of this Champion system change was, to allow players more freedom in their endgame activities. They had a somewhat solid idea to replace the progression that the VR system allowed through the Season Gear system and Champion Points.

They just need to follow through and the game will very likely be better for it.

You know, the only one of the things listed that you really can't do at V1 is trials. Everything else, it's your choice. I've done PvP as a level 30ish character against Vet players and I felt I was contributing. I don't know why everyone thinks they need to be V14 to be effective in PvP. Stop shackling yourself with silly notions and go enjoy the game!

I don't care if we have vet levels or not, or if we have a champion system or not. I just one everyone who comes here that says "vet levels are boring because there is no new content" to realize that the reason we don't have new content yet (I'm looking at you Imperial City!) is because of the huge amount of development resources that's being poured into the Champion System and the removal of the Vet levels.

So pick one thing to complain about, because you can't have your cake and eat it too!

Bud... Your idea of "Contributing" to PvP is different from persons who actually contribute.

First off, I'm only VR3 on my new main (because I'm the OP and CANNOT stand to go through the VR content AGAIN) and when I encounter anyone below VR in Cyrodiil, I literally toy with them. I'll hit them a little, then jump around and let them hit me, thinking that they have a chance... Once they've healed a bit, I'll hit them again and they normally try to run, then I'll laughingly finish them.

Second, if you manage to find a group to follow around as a low level character, you'll quickly find that you need a fast horse because nobody is going to waste a Soul Gem to rez you.

"Feeling like you contributed" and actually contributing are two different things.

Third, as far as PvE goes, you cannot finish your main story line, reach VR1 and then be welcomed into VR dungeon groups. People just don't really do that.

So, as it would seem.. The guy you quoted was correct on every point... and didn't "contribute" false opinions, like someone I know.

1. I don't see why you wouldn't have a fast horse at V3 if you wanted to focus on PvP.

2. If you can't find dungeon groups at V1+, then maybe you are in the wrong kind of guild? I'm probably going to have a stack of keys by the time my sorc and my templar hit V14, and I'm not really trying to do them on a daily basis.

But whatever. Keep complaining if that makes you happy. ZOS already said they are not removing vet ranks before the console launch in June, and I sure hope they bring out some new content before then, because I will be done with Gold on my first toon by the time June comes around.