I can't do it... I can't level anymore. Please remove the Veteran Ranks now instead of waiting.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

So what about the skill points from the quests? I assume you guys who dont want to level also expect to be handed 300 skill points without working for them too?

NewBlacksmurf

Varicite wrote: »

You could honestly just scale everyone back to lv50. Yes, I do understand exactly how much this would shake things up by removing crafting mats and a sense of progression, but this would hardly be the first time ZOS has done something like this.

Just hear me out. Barring the frustration that some players will undoubtedly feel at losing those 14 ranks, ZOS has stated implicitly that you would still not be losing the skill points gained from advancing through the Veteran ranks.

With everyone as a level 50, Cadwell's Almanac then becomes a CHOICE for those who wish to experience the other factions' storylines, a huge source of skill points, and most importantly a method of advancement for gaining CP.

If you dislike this, you could still PvP or AoE grind, but w/out the huge artificial gap between 50 and endgame, one could start obtaining the gear that they need to participate in OTHER endgame activities like Trials much sooner.

But what about progression? Trials would be rewarding powerful Season gear, giving players a much-needed carrot for their now-empty sticks and for those just hitting the endgame scene, previous Season's gear would be obtainable in a much easier fashion so they would no longer be barred from playing the game how they like.

And of course, there IS the Champ system that is supposed to allow players more flexibility in how they spec their characters. I personally would have liked to see a cap on the total number of CP a character could use, making the system one of horizontal progression rather than an extremely long vertical one, but it is still rather new.

Again, I DO understand the frustration at losing perceived progression in the Veteran system, but the whole system is just an artificial gating tool that serves more to separate players (and cause them to leave entirely) more than anything else. While its concept may be sound, the simple reality of the situation is that Veteran ranks are driving much of the player base away. I'm reluctant to hold on to any vestige of this debacle.

I honestly feel that the game as a whole will be SO MUCH better for everyone once it's been cleansed of the VR system and there is much more actual CHOICE brought back to a game founded on that very principle.

I don't think any of this is a smart approach.
VR levels or any type of end game exp grinds are the problem.
I won't say that silver n gold quests are the problem but because it has shards locked behind content. Major adjustments have to occur within the champion system.

Whatever ends up happening....cadwell quests should be an account progress vs per character EVEN if the chars are in diff factions. The first character who starts it determines the path and all others would assist BUT it HAS to all be OPTIONAL

VR levels cannot just cause any feeling that a VR was dropped to 50 or even VR5, etc.
give people their credit in some fashion...not how champion conversion was handled.

Progression
There are those who consider character levels as progression
There are those who want more max levels
There are those who want solo content
There are those who want PvP endgame
There are those who want raids and dungeons
There are those who want group/co-op content.

The solution to progression is to allow any chosen patch to follow a Solo, PvE, group or PvP route from 45- whatever is next.
A logical solution is to use what exists today and adjust so that any content feels valuable and worth doing based on a PvE, PvP, solo or group mentality

Cleansing everyone of VR levels shouldn't mean taking the VR accomplishments or value away.



As I participate in more n more threads...here is an idea


Cadwell
These players are seeking solo and/or small group encounters. They may or may not be concerned with level progression other than champion lvl exp
-allow the account to play with any other accounts regardless of faction and regardless of progress (no phasing)
-this means the quests become almost a jump in and out opportunity with an account tab that allows a player to complete all the quests BUT doesn't limit them
-if a person wants to repeat certain quests over and over for a flat amount of exp or items. That's fine.
-when a quest in this idea is completed the players can choose to replay or jump to the next desired quest (grouped or solo)
-this applies to quests, solo dungeons or caves, world bosses and dolemans

PvE dungeons and raids
-these players are looking to progress by means of gear and items AND or champion levels but they don't want to be limited to access end game dungeons or raids due to character level after hitting level 50+
-this group of players may focus on smaller dungeons or raids or a combination of the two
-while champion point progression is appreciated gear and items ultimately are the desired goals of defeating these encounters.
-perhaps the VR dungeons would be a starting point or in some way a progression to Craglorn but not like heroic dungeons in WoW. Moreso like prior to any WoW expansion when certain level 60 dungeons provided dungeon set gear. So in this game the VR dungeons could be a good source to obtain lvl 50+ set gear which would enhance their effectiveness in the next difficult dungeon or raid.
-crafting offsets any grind as crafters should be able to craft this gear in cases where a player desires to skip the optional dungeon gear finding efforts to raid in Craglorn

PvP
These players should not in any way be forced to do either of the two options above as their interest is PvP.
-their champion lvl should increase at a efficient rate based on group and solo accomplishments in PvP
-these characters may be included to gear and items too as rewards

Other:
The last group are the crafters, casuals, RP and curious
-keep in mind parts of this group may be more hardcore than the others but their play style should cause benefit towards crafting rewards and crafting exp, costume rewards and a mix of other items above and those not mentioned like the justice system.

Shards:
These would be rewarded for completing the quest picker or PvP or Dungeon success up to a max per character

In closing
The VR levels as is doesn't have a place because keeping them ends up secluding or limiting other players or forcing players into areas of no interest. Or frustration

1.While my idea may not be the best or cover all aspects I honestly believe that the first step is taking the VR characters and going back to convert the correct amount of champion levels into an account
2. Taking the individual skill and VR stat changes and working those into gear
3. Gear and items of VR quality should have a champion level based min requirements to use. The stats will replace the character stats previously gained by VR leveling BUT the stats would apply to the play style. Sta, Mag, Healt based on weapon, skill choices per weapon swap
4. NPC characters will also be converted using a champion level appropriate to the current VR difficulty


That's just me tho

Varicite

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

So what about the skill points from the quests? I assume you guys who dont want to level also expect to be handed 300 skill points without working for them too?

If you want them, you can do them. You'll still gain CP for doing the quests too.

But if you just want to go do Trials and get Season Gear instead, you won't HAVE to do them.

This isn't rocket science.

Varicite

@NewBlacksmurf There is going to BE a grind, no matter how we feel, due to the Champion System's mechanics.

There's really no way to abolish the XP chase, I think the best we can do is to alleviate it by letting players choose in what manner they gain this XP and to allow them to participate in endgame activities WHILE they are gaining this xp.

Jules

It really is painful. I have two v14 characters and one v13.5 (lol) and they were all leveled before 1.6. Post 1.6 I started leveling a toon and it's just soul crushing. The grinds are all gone, I'm forced to quest through like 1000+ quests to get a max toon. It's going to take probably weeks of gameplay to do where before it took days. Idk why they can't just accept that some people have different gameplay styles. Some people want to enjoy the lore and whatnot. Some people want to power level. Needless to say I'm kinda meh about that newbie toon now.

NewBlacksmurf

Varicite wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf There is going to BE a grind, no matter how we feel, due to the Champion System's mechanics.

There's really no way to abolish the XP chase, I think the best we can do is to alleviate it by letting players choose in what manner they gain this XP and to allow them to participate in endgame activities WHILE they are gaining this xp.

Did u read my post.

Varicite

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf There is going to BE a grind, no matter how we feel, due to the Champion System's mechanics.

There's really no way to abolish the XP chase, I think the best we can do is to alleviate it by letting players choose in what manner they gain this XP and to allow them to participate in endgame activities WHILE they are gaining this xp.

Did u read my post.

Just read the edit. : P

Your solution would work as well, though I honestly believe you're doing a lot of work for no other purpose than to keep players from feeling "shafted" by the removal of VR.

Spending resources simply to shelter players probably isn't the way I'd go personally, but I don't necessarily have any issue w/ it.

So long as the end result is more freedom and a MUCH smaller gap barring players from entering their choice of endgame activities, I'm fine w/ it.

NewBlacksmurf

Varicite wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf There is going to BE a grind, no matter how we feel, due to the Champion System's mechanics.

There's really no way to abolish the XP chase, I think the best we can do is to alleviate it by letting players choose in what manner they gain this XP and to allow them to participate in endgame activities WHILE they are gaining this xp.

Did u read my post.

Just read the edit. : P

Your solution would work as well, though I honestly believe you're doing a lot of work for no other purpose than to keep players from feeling "shafted" by the removal of VR.

Spending resources simply to shelter players probably isn't the way I'd go personally, but I don't necessarily have any issue w/ it.

So long as the end result is more freedom and a MUCH smaller gap barring players from entering their choice of endgame activities, I'm fine w/ it.

Yep. It's a lot but hopefully it catches @ZOS attn along with any other great ideas.

Snowstrider

I wish that they made the game more open once you reach 50 so you can choose which faction and province to go to,Also you should be able to do dragonstar arena and craglorn at lower levels,i knopw plenty of you already do that but i havent done any of them yet and i am kinda getting bored of the soloing zone after zone

bg22

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

So what about the skill points from the quests? I assume you guys who dont want to level also expect to be handed 300 skill points without working for them too?

And you know what they say about the most important 3 letters in a assume.

bg22

Varicite wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

So what about the skill points from the quests? I assume you guys who dont want to level also expect to be handed 300 skill points without working for them too?

If you want them, you can do them. You'll still gain CP for doing the quests too.

But if you just want to go do Trials and get Season Gear instead, you won't HAVE to do them.

This isn't rocket science.

Oh it's beyond rocket science for some people... Sadly.

Minack

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

So what about the skill points from the quests? I assume you guys who dont want to level also expect to be handed 300 skill points without working for them too?

Do your hands hurt from making so many strawmen.

drschplatt

I've been subbing from the day this game came out and I don't have a V14 character because the Caldwell's Gold and Silver quests are so painfully boring and tedious. I really lose interest in the game when slogging through vet content. Now that 1.6 is out, the horrible latency issues aren't helping much either. It's even harder to get interested in PVE content when it takes 2 seconds to use every skill.

Lynnessa

drschplatt wrote: »

I've been subbing from the day this game came out and I don't have a V14 character because the Caldwell's Gold and Silver quests are so painfully boring and tedious. I really lose interest in the game when slogging through vet content. Now that 1.6 is out, the horrible latency issues aren't helping much either. It's even harder to get interested in PVE content when it takes 2 seconds to use every skill.

I'm with you. I haven't logged in for some time now because the questing just isn't interesting--it's boring mostly because I'm over-powered compared to the content I'm on. So many changes to the game have made my character feel completely different (weaker), and make the whole thing feel unfinished and cobbled together.

Are they really going to remove veteran ranks? If so, I might wait till after that before I log in again.

mitchav66

Just make another character then lol

bg22

mitchav66 wrote: »

Just make another character then lol

Wut?

Making another lowbie makes you competitive in Cyrodiil and allows you to do trials? Sweet. Why didn't someone just say so.

EQBallzz

Varicite wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

So what about the skill points from the quests? I assume you guys who dont want to level also expect to be handed 300 skill points without working for them too?

If you want them, you can do them. You'll still gain CP for doing the quests too.

But if you just want to go do Trials and get Season Gear instead, you won't HAVE to do them.

This isn't rocket science.

You still keep ignoring the fact that you won't be doing trials or getting season gear or doing "competitive" pvp when you hit 50 whether there are vet levels or not. Once they add the 10-14 "regular" levels on top of 50 to replace the vet levels you will still need to level through all those before doing end game activities so you gain nothing with the removal of vet levels. Rocket science, indeed.

bg22

EQBallzz wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

So what about the skill points from the quests? I assume you guys who dont want to level also expect to be handed 300 skill points without working for them too?

If you want them, you can do them. You'll still gain CP for doing the quests too.

But if you just want to go do Trials and get Season Gear instead, you won't HAVE to do them.

This isn't rocket science.

You still keep ignoring the fact that you won't be doing trials or getting season gear or doing "competitive" pvp when you hit 50 whether there are vet levels or not. Once they add the 10-14 "regular" levels on top of 50 to replace the vet levels you will still need to level through all those before doing end game activities so you gain nothing with the removal of vet levels. Rocket science, indeed.

What are you talking about? Nobody, anywhere, ever said anything about adding additional levels.

Arato

EQBallzz wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

So what about the skill points from the quests? I assume you guys who dont want to level also expect to be handed 300 skill points without working for them too?

If you want them, you can do them. You'll still gain CP for doing the quests too.

But if you just want to go do Trials and get Season Gear instead, you won't HAVE to do them.

This isn't rocket science.

You still keep ignoring the fact that you won't be doing trials or getting season gear or doing "competitive" pvp when you hit 50 whether there are vet levels or not. Once they add the 10-14 "regular" levels on top of 50 to replace the vet levels you will still need to level through all those before doing end game activities so you gain nothing with the removal of vet levels. Rocket science, indeed.

They're not adding regular levels. They're just removing veteran levels and leaving champion system as the post 50 progression system.

pauld1_ESO

Elder_III wrote: »

VR 1-14 is a complete and utter breeze now. It is not hard or tedious it's just something that the instant gratification generation is too lazy to put the effort in to do it. Man up and do it or don't complain that you're character is weaker. If it's that unappealing for people then it's obvious they picked the wrong game.

I put in effort and work all day AT WORK....I play games for fun and enjoyment. Grind for the sake of grind is not fun, and if you think you are accomplishing something by grinding in a game I would say focus more on your real life.

Varicite

EQBallzz wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

So what about the skill points from the quests? I assume you guys who dont want to level also expect to be handed 300 skill points without working for them too?

If you want them, you can do them. You'll still gain CP for doing the quests too.

But if you just want to go do Trials and get Season Gear instead, you won't HAVE to do them.

This isn't rocket science.

You still keep ignoring the fact that you won't be doing trials or getting season gear or doing "competitive" pvp when you hit 50 whether there are vet levels or not. Once they add the 10-14 "regular" levels on top of 50 to replace the vet levels you will still need to level through all those before doing end game activities so you gain nothing with the removal of vet levels. Rocket science, indeed.

IF.

If they even do it that way.

Horrum

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

So what about the skill points from the quests? I assume you guys who dont want to level also expect to be handed 300 skill points without working for them too?

It's called optional content. Need more skill points? Go explore and sky shard hunting. Do some quests and dungeons. To be forced through all that content for every damn character before you will be considered for trials and DSA or viable in PvP is an abomination, especially to those who actually have to work for a living and can't be rooted to a game for 16 hours a day.

Horrum

pauld1_ESO wrote: »

Elder_III wrote: »

VR 1-14 is a complete and utter breeze now. It is not hard or tedious it's just something that the instant gratification generation is too lazy to put the effort in to do it. Man up and do it or don't complain that you're character is weaker. If it's that unappealing for people then it's obvious they picked the wrong game.

I put in effort and work all day AT WORK....I play games for fun and enjoyment. Grind for the sake of grind is not fun, and if you think you are accomplishing something by grinding in a game I would say focus more on your real life.

Couldn't agree more. Thank you for saying this.

drschplatt

mitchav66 wrote: »

Just make another character then lol

Holy wrinkled monkey butts, Batman! Why didn't I think of doing that in order to participate in end game content and compete with the other end game characters in PVP?



Oh wait....

Spryt

Would have been so much better if they actually had story and content for each faction in all areas. So after you are done with AD you go to next faction and do special quests and stuff as some kind of covert ops for AD deep behind enemy lines not the same damn quests as everyone else straight off the noob boat.

But that's too much work. Quick fix is like others have said, remove vet lvl and open up world and make it optional. The sooner the better.

Enodoc

I got bored of reading this thread after Page 7, so I hope I didn't miss anything major. A while ago I posted an idea of how the removal of VRs could work:

Enodoc wrote: »

We know that with Phase 4 of the Veteran Overhaul, Veteran Ranks are being "removed". This is a compilation of the comments and suggestions I have made about this in various places so that it's all in one thread, presented as will be statements for ease of understanding (note that this is what I would like to see, all is speculatory and nothing is confirmed).

For the sake of argument, I will be assuming that the "removal" of Veteran Ranks is exactly that - a flattening of the current verticality so that everyone who is Veteran Rank 1-14 will become just Level 50.

Gear

• VR 1-5 Gear will become Veteran Season 1 Gear, and will be common from drops and found at vendors.
• VR 6-10 Gear will become Veteran Season 2 Gear, and will be from uncommon drops.
• VR 11-14 Gear will become Veteran Season 3 Gear, and will only be available from the highest difficulty mobs.

Cadwell
Assume you are a member of the Daggerfall Covenant for this section.

• Cadwell's Silver will begin as it does now. following the end of the Main Quest. But:
  • As soon as you arrive in the starter city of Vulkhel Guard, the following text appears on-screen: New Task: Cadwell's Silver - Experience the Aldmeri Dominion.
  • Cadwell's Silver is then removed/hidden from the Journal. This is so that the quest is not there hanging over you if you don't want to do it. (Progress tracking in Cadwell's Almanac proceeds as normal.)
  • A projection of Cadwell invites you to visit the Aldmeri version of the Harborage to return to your own alliance. There's a projection of him in the Aldmeri Harborage as well, with the same dialogue he would have if you met him in the normal (Daggerfall) Harborage.
  • Activating the Light of Meridia in the Aldmeri Harborage returns you to the Daggerfall Harborage, where Cadwell is waiting... with a new quest for you.
• Cadwell's Gold will begin as soon as you return to the Daggerfall Harborage after your initial trip to the Dominion lands. Cadwell's dialogue here ("Well, you've experienced two of the three alliances. Care to finish the set?[...]") does not need to be changed, as you have still technically experienced two alliances.
  • As before, as soon as you arrive in Davon's Watch, you get a New Task: Cadwell's Gold - Experience the Ebonheart Pact.
  • Cadwell's Gold is removed/hidden from the Journal to avoid clutter.
• You now have access to both Cadwell areas without being required to complete one of them first, aside from visiting the first city and leaving again.
• Returning to any version of the Harborage gives you access to the Light of Meridia. Activate it whenever you like to be given a choice of alliances to visit. eg, press E for Dominion, F for Pact or X for Covenant.
• If either section of Cadwell's Almanac is completed, you see Task Completed: Cadwell's Silver/Gold - You have completed the Dominion/Pact section of Cadwell's Almanac. At this time, the relevant quest reappears in the Journal for you to turn in to Cadwell in the Daggerfall Harborage. Turn in works as it does now.

Zones
With everything being changed to Level 50 and access to both alliance territories being given at once, the previous vertical progression through them will have to be flattened, but some semblance of verticality is still needed so players feel like they are progressing.

• Cadwell Zones will have a minor progression system, so that Tier 5 zones (Bangkorai, Reaper's March, and The Rift) are more difficult than Tier 1 zones (Glenumbra, Auridon, and Stonefalls), but are of comparable difficulty to each other (The Rift is no more difficult than Reaper's March).
• Depending on how gear seasons and Champion Points work, you may find that a few CPs and Season 1 gear is sufficient for Tiers 1 through 3, but Season 2 gear becomes more useful as you hit Tiers 4 and 5, and you will need to spend more CPs in the constellation passives.
• Since Veteran content has been flattened, Craglorn will be viable for groups as soon as they hit Level 50, and you won't have to go through the Cadwell Zones to be viable. Upper Craglorn content will be similar, but more geared towards players who have spent enough time to build up their Champion System passives.
• Cyrodiil will become more viable for everyone at Level 50, as the gap between players caused by the difference in power between VR 1 and VR 14 will no longer exist. There will be a bit of a gap caused by players having spent more CPs in the constellation passives, or wearing Season 2/3 gear, but everyone will be competitive.

Veteran Scaling for your own Alliance
Using the Normal/Veteran Toggle, you can toggle between the standard 1-43 zones of your alliance, or a Veteran-scaled version that is comparable to the Cadwell Zones. This way you can choose which zones to play in without anything being too low level to be worth it. [This can be combined with my suggestions for PvE solo dailies from the Mages and Fighters Guilds so you can continue to quest in those zones as well]

Cross-Faction PvE
With the Cadwell Zones being flattened, there will no longer be a VR 2 and a VR 7 version of a Tier 2 zone, because all Tier 2 zones will be comparable. This means veterans of all alliances will be playing in versions of the zone that are exactly the same as each other (like Coldharbour and Craglorn are now). Therefore, one of the primary reasons why cross-faction PvE could not work in these zones is removed. A toggle in the Settings menu called "Enable Cross-Faction PvE" will determine whether you are put into a cross-faction zone shard or a single-faction zone shard. [This can be extended to include Coldharbour, Craglorn, the Earth Forge, and Eyevea, as I have mentioned elsewhere, using the same toggle setting]

Questions? Thoughts? Comments? Ridicule? Go ahead

Valnas

there are still good grind spots. has that even been voiced ? you could have v14 in 2-3 days if you desire.

NewBlacksmurf

Enodoc wrote: »

I got bored of reading this thread after Page 7, so I hope I didn't miss anything major. A while ago I posted an idea of how the removal of VRs could work:

Enodoc wrote: »

We know that with Phase 4 of the Veteran Overhaul, Veteran Ranks are being "removed". This is a compilation of the comments and suggestions I have made about this in various places so that it's all in one thread, presented as will be statements for ease of understanding (note that this is what I would like to see, all is speculatory and nothing is confirmed).

For the sake of argument, I will be assuming that the "removal" of Veteran Ranks is exactly that - a flattening of the current verticality so that everyone who is Veteran Rank 1-14 will become just Level 50.

Gear

• VR 1-5 Gear will become Veteran Season 1 Gear, and will be common from drops and found at vendors.
• VR 6-10 Gear will become Veteran Season 2 Gear, and will be from uncommon drops.
• VR 11-14 Gear will become Veteran Season 3 Gear, and will only be available from the highest difficulty mobs.

Cadwell
Assume you are a member of the Daggerfall Covenant for this section.

• Cadwell's Silver will begin as it does now. following the end of the Main Quest. But:
  • As soon as you arrive in the starter city of Vulkhel Guard, the following text appears on-screen: New Task: Cadwell's Silver - Experience the Aldmeri Dominion.
  • Cadwell's Silver is then removed/hidden from the Journal. This is so that the quest is not there hanging over you if you don't want to do it. (Progress tracking in Cadwell's Almanac proceeds as normal.)
  • A projection of Cadwell invites you to visit the Aldmeri version of the Harborage to return to your own alliance. There's a projection of him in the Aldmeri Harborage as well, with the same dialogue he would have if you met him in the normal (Daggerfall) Harborage.
  • Activating the Light of Meridia in the Aldmeri Harborage returns you to the Daggerfall Harborage, where Cadwell is waiting... with a new quest for you.
• Cadwell's Gold will begin as soon as you return to the Daggerfall Harborage after your initial trip to the Dominion lands. Cadwell's dialogue here ("Well, you've experienced two of the three alliances. Care to finish the set?[...]") does not need to be changed, as you have still technically experienced two alliances.
  • As before, as soon as you arrive in Davon's Watch, you get a New Task: Cadwell's Gold - Experience the Ebonheart Pact.
  • Cadwell's Gold is removed/hidden from the Journal to avoid clutter.
• You now have access to both Cadwell areas without being required to complete one of them first, aside from visiting the first city and leaving again.
• Returning to any version of the Harborage gives you access to the Light of Meridia. Activate it whenever you like to be given a choice of alliances to visit. eg, press E for Dominion, F for Pact or X for Covenant.
• If either section of Cadwell's Almanac is completed, you see Task Completed: Cadwell's Silver/Gold - You have completed the Dominion/Pact section of Cadwell's Almanac. At this time, the relevant quest reappears in the Journal for you to turn in to Cadwell in the Daggerfall Harborage. Turn in works as it does now.

Zones
With everything being changed to Level 50 and access to both alliance territories being given at once, the previous vertical progression through them will have to be flattened, but some semblance of verticality is still needed so players feel like they are progressing.

• Cadwell Zones will have a minor progression system, so that Tier 5 zones (Bangkorai, Reaper's March, and The Rift) are more difficult than Tier 1 zones (Glenumbra, Auridon, and Stonefalls), but are of comparable difficulty to each other (The Rift is no more difficult than Reaper's March).
• Depending on how gear seasons and Champion Points work, you may find that a few CPs and Season 1 gear is sufficient for Tiers 1 through 3, but Season 2 gear becomes more useful as you hit Tiers 4 and 5, and you will need to spend more CPs in the constellation passives.
• Since Veteran content has been flattened, Craglorn will be viable for groups as soon as they hit Level 50, and you won't have to go through the Cadwell Zones to be viable. Upper Craglorn content will be similar, but more geared towards players who have spent enough time to build up their Champion System passives.
• Cyrodiil will become more viable for everyone at Level 50, as the gap between players caused by the difference in power between VR 1 and VR 14 will no longer exist. There will be a bit of a gap caused by players having spent more CPs in the constellation passives, or wearing Season 2/3 gear, but everyone will be competitive.

Veteran Scaling for your own Alliance
Using the Normal/Veteran Toggle, you can toggle between the standard 1-43 zones of your alliance, or a Veteran-scaled version that is comparable to the Cadwell Zones. This way you can choose which zones to play in without anything being too low level to be worth it. [This can be combined with my suggestions for PvE solo dailies from the Mages and Fighters Guilds so you can continue to quest in those zones as well]

Cross-Faction PvE
With the Cadwell Zones being flattened, there will no longer be a VR 2 and a VR 7 version of a Tier 2 zone, because all Tier 2 zones will be comparable. This means veterans of all alliances will be playing in versions of the zone that are exactly the same as each other (like Coldharbour and Craglorn are now). Therefore, one of the primary reasons why cross-faction PvE could not work in these zones is removed. A toggle in the Settings menu called "Enable Cross-Faction PvE" will determine whether you are put into a cross-faction zone shard or a single-faction zone shard. [This can be extended to include Coldharbour, Craglorn, the Earth Forge, and Eyevea, as I have mentioned elsewhere, using the same toggle setting]

Questions? Thoughts? Comments? Ridicule? Go ahead

No thanks...please see my comment as to why I say no.
None of this addresses the masses but instead seems to play into someone's personal request

Enodoc

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

I got bored of reading this thread after Page 7, so I hope I didn't miss anything major. A while ago I posted an idea of how the removal of VRs could work:

Enodoc wrote: »

We know that with Phase 4 of the Veteran Overhaul, Veteran Ranks are being "removed". This is a compilation of the comments and suggestions I have made about this in various places so that it's all in one thread, presented as will be statements for ease of understanding (note that this is what I would like to see, all is speculatory and nothing is confirmed).

For the sake of argument, I will be assuming that the "removal" of Veteran Ranks is exactly that - a flattening of the current verticality so that everyone who is Veteran Rank 1-14 will become just Level 50.

Gear

• VR 1-5 Gear will become Veteran Season 1 Gear, and will be common from drops and found at vendors.
• VR 6-10 Gear will become Veteran Season 2 Gear, and will be from uncommon drops.
• VR 11-14 Gear will become Veteran Season 3 Gear, and will only be available from the highest difficulty mobs.

Cadwell
Assume you are a member of the Daggerfall Covenant for this section.

• Cadwell's Silver will begin as it does now. following the end of the Main Quest. But:
  • As soon as you arrive in the starter city of Vulkhel Guard, the following text appears on-screen: New Task: Cadwell's Silver - Experience the Aldmeri Dominion.
  • Cadwell's Silver is then removed/hidden from the Journal. This is so that the quest is not there hanging over you if you don't want to do it. (Progress tracking in Cadwell's Almanac proceeds as normal.)
  • A projection of Cadwell invites you to visit the Aldmeri version of the Harborage to return to your own alliance. There's a projection of him in the Aldmeri Harborage as well, with the same dialogue he would have if you met him in the normal (Daggerfall) Harborage.
  • Activating the Light of Meridia in the Aldmeri Harborage returns you to the Daggerfall Harborage, where Cadwell is waiting... with a new quest for you.
• Cadwell's Gold will begin as soon as you return to the Daggerfall Harborage after your initial trip to the Dominion lands. Cadwell's dialogue here ("Well, you've experienced two of the three alliances. Care to finish the set?[...]") does not need to be changed, as you have still technically experienced two alliances.
  • As before, as soon as you arrive in Davon's Watch, you get a New Task: Cadwell's Gold - Experience the Ebonheart Pact.
  • Cadwell's Gold is removed/hidden from the Journal to avoid clutter.
• You now have access to both Cadwell areas without being required to complete one of them first, aside from visiting the first city and leaving again.
• Returning to any version of the Harborage gives you access to the Light of Meridia. Activate it whenever you like to be given a choice of alliances to visit. eg, press E for Dominion, F for Pact or X for Covenant.
• If either section of Cadwell's Almanac is completed, you see Task Completed: Cadwell's Silver/Gold - You have completed the Dominion/Pact section of Cadwell's Almanac. At this time, the relevant quest reappears in the Journal for you to turn in to Cadwell in the Daggerfall Harborage. Turn in works as it does now.

Zones
With everything being changed to Level 50 and access to both alliance territories being given at once, the previous vertical progression through them will have to be flattened, but some semblance of verticality is still needed so players feel like they are progressing.

• Cadwell Zones will have a minor progression system, so that Tier 5 zones (Bangkorai, Reaper's March, and The Rift) are more difficult than Tier 1 zones (Glenumbra, Auridon, and Stonefalls), but are of comparable difficulty to each other (The Rift is no more difficult than Reaper's March).
• Depending on how gear seasons and Champion Points work, you may find that a few CPs and Season 1 gear is sufficient for Tiers 1 through 3, but Season 2 gear becomes more useful as you hit Tiers 4 and 5, and you will need to spend more CPs in the constellation passives.
• Since Veteran content has been flattened, Craglorn will be viable for groups as soon as they hit Level 50, and you won't have to go through the Cadwell Zones to be viable. Upper Craglorn content will be similar, but more geared towards players who have spent enough time to build up their Champion System passives.
• Cyrodiil will become more viable for everyone at Level 50, as the gap between players caused by the difference in power between VR 1 and VR 14 will no longer exist. There will be a bit of a gap caused by players having spent more CPs in the constellation passives, or wearing Season 2/3 gear, but everyone will be competitive.

Veteran Scaling for your own Alliance
Using the Normal/Veteran Toggle, you can toggle between the standard 1-43 zones of your alliance, or a Veteran-scaled version that is comparable to the Cadwell Zones. This way you can choose which zones to play in without anything being too low level to be worth it. [This can be combined with my suggestions for PvE solo dailies from the Mages and Fighters Guilds so you can continue to quest in those zones as well]

Cross-Faction PvE
With the Cadwell Zones being flattened, there will no longer be a VR 2 and a VR 7 version of a Tier 2 zone, because all Tier 2 zones will be comparable. This means veterans of all alliances will be playing in versions of the zone that are exactly the same as each other (like Coldharbour and Craglorn are now). Therefore, one of the primary reasons why cross-faction PvE could not work in these zones is removed. A toggle in the Settings menu called "Enable Cross-Faction PvE" will determine whether you are put into a cross-faction zone shard or a single-faction zone shard. [This can be extended to include Coldharbour, Craglorn, the Earth Forge, and Eyevea, as I have mentioned elsewhere, using the same toggle setting]

Questions? Thoughts? Comments? Ridicule? Go ahead

No thanks...please see my comment as to why I say no.
None of this addresses the masses but instead seems to play into someone's personal request

As I said, I didn't read past Page 7. But assuming you are referring to your post on Page 11, I actually don't see much difference between our ideas, aside from the fact that you have Cadwell being account-wide and repeatable, and I have a few extra ideas for implementation and Veteran level content in your original alliance.

NewBlacksmurf

Enodoc wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

I got bored of reading this thread after Page 7, so I hope I didn't miss anything major. A while ago I posted an idea of how the removal of VRs could work:

Enodoc wrote: »

We know that with Phase 4 of the Veteran Overhaul, Veteran Ranks are being "removed". This is a compilation of the comments and suggestions I have made about this in various places so that it's all in one thread, presented as will be statements for ease of understanding (note that this is what I would like to see, all is speculatory and nothing is confirmed).

For the sake of argument, I will be assuming that the "removal" of Veteran Ranks is exactly that - a flattening of the current verticality so that everyone who is Veteran Rank 1-14 will become just Level 50.

Gear

• VR 1-5 Gear will become Veteran Season 1 Gear, and will be common from drops and found at vendors.
• VR 6-10 Gear will become Veteran Season 2 Gear, and will be from uncommon drops.
• VR 11-14 Gear will become Veteran Season 3 Gear, and will only be available from the highest difficulty mobs.

Cadwell
Assume you are a member of the Daggerfall Covenant for this section.

• Cadwell's Silver will begin as it does now. following the end of the Main Quest. But:
  • As soon as you arrive in the starter city of Vulkhel Guard, the following text appears on-screen: New Task: Cadwell's Silver - Experience the Aldmeri Dominion.
  • Cadwell's Silver is then removed/hidden from the Journal. This is so that the quest is not there hanging over you if you don't want to do it. (Progress tracking in Cadwell's Almanac proceeds as normal.)
  • A projection of Cadwell invites you to visit the Aldmeri version of the Harborage to return to your own alliance. There's a projection of him in the Aldmeri Harborage as well, with the same dialogue he would have if you met him in the normal (Daggerfall) Harborage.
  • Activating the Light of Meridia in the Aldmeri Harborage returns you to the Daggerfall Harborage, where Cadwell is waiting... with a new quest for you.
• Cadwell's Gold will begin as soon as you return to the Daggerfall Harborage after your initial trip to the Dominion lands. Cadwell's dialogue here ("Well, you've experienced two of the three alliances. Care to finish the set?[...]") does not need to be changed, as you have still technically experienced two alliances.
  • As before, as soon as you arrive in Davon's Watch, you get a New Task: Cadwell's Gold - Experience the Ebonheart Pact.
  • Cadwell's Gold is removed/hidden from the Journal to avoid clutter.
• You now have access to both Cadwell areas without being required to complete one of them first, aside from visiting the first city and leaving again.
• Returning to any version of the Harborage gives you access to the Light of Meridia. Activate it whenever you like to be given a choice of alliances to visit. eg, press E for Dominion, F for Pact or X for Covenant.
• If either section of Cadwell's Almanac is completed, you see Task Completed: Cadwell's Silver/Gold - You have completed the Dominion/Pact section of Cadwell's Almanac. At this time, the relevant quest reappears in the Journal for you to turn in to Cadwell in the Daggerfall Harborage. Turn in works as it does now.

Zones
With everything being changed to Level 50 and access to both alliance territories being given at once, the previous vertical progression through them will have to be flattened, but some semblance of verticality is still needed so players feel like they are progressing.

• Cadwell Zones will have a minor progression system, so that Tier 5 zones (Bangkorai, Reaper's March, and The Rift) are more difficult than Tier 1 zones (Glenumbra, Auridon, and Stonefalls), but are of comparable difficulty to each other (The Rift is no more difficult than Reaper's March).
• Depending on how gear seasons and Champion Points work, you may find that a few CPs and Season 1 gear is sufficient for Tiers 1 through 3, but Season 2 gear becomes more useful as you hit Tiers 4 and 5, and you will need to spend more CPs in the constellation passives.
• Since Veteran content has been flattened, Craglorn will be viable for groups as soon as they hit Level 50, and you won't have to go through the Cadwell Zones to be viable. Upper Craglorn content will be similar, but more geared towards players who have spent enough time to build up their Champion System passives.
• Cyrodiil will become more viable for everyone at Level 50, as the gap between players caused by the difference in power between VR 1 and VR 14 will no longer exist. There will be a bit of a gap caused by players having spent more CPs in the constellation passives, or wearing Season 2/3 gear, but everyone will be competitive.

Veteran Scaling for your own Alliance
Using the Normal/Veteran Toggle, you can toggle between the standard 1-43 zones of your alliance, or a Veteran-scaled version that is comparable to the Cadwell Zones. This way you can choose which zones to play in without anything being too low level to be worth it. [This can be combined with my suggestions for PvE solo dailies from the Mages and Fighters Guilds so you can continue to quest in those zones as well]

Cross-Faction PvE
With the Cadwell Zones being flattened, there will no longer be a VR 2 and a VR 7 version of a Tier 2 zone, because all Tier 2 zones will be comparable. This means veterans of all alliances will be playing in versions of the zone that are exactly the same as each other (like Coldharbour and Craglorn are now). Therefore, one of the primary reasons why cross-faction PvE could not work in these zones is removed. A toggle in the Settings menu called "Enable Cross-Faction PvE" will determine whether you are put into a cross-faction zone shard or a single-faction zone shard. [This can be extended to include Coldharbour, Craglorn, the Earth Forge, and Eyevea, as I have mentioned elsewhere, using the same toggle setting]

Questions? Thoughts? Comments? Ridicule? Go ahead

No thanks...please see my comment as to why I say no.
None of this addresses the masses but instead seems to play into someone's personal request

As I said, I didn't read past Page 7. But assuming you are referring to your post on Page 11, I actually don't see much difference between our ideas, aside from the fact that you have Cadwell being account-wide and repeatable, and I have a few extra ideas for implementation and Veteran level content in your original alliance.

Just commenting to specify that I read these items as very different from my comment

-flattening everyone to 50 vs using VR progression and applying it to champion levels (redo)
-VR gear becoming seasonal vs keeping the gear and items but moving the stats benefits to them and using a min champion level requirement
-Cadwell (we are just diff as you remark) other than the cross faction PvE
-Veteran scaling vs no scaling