[Screenshot] 50% "Experience Booster" - ZOS, can we get a confirmation or further details?

Trottz

domenthechief wrote: »

New content every 4-5 weeks they said.

No p2w they said.

smoke and mirrors, my friend. smoke and mirrors.

Hallelujah Kali-Yuga

eventide03b14a_ESO

Dazin93 wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Oh, if you only knew how wrong you are.... would love to see the look on your face if you ever understood that most of it is due to skill on those top spots, and not something so meaningless as playing 16 hours a day. That isn't why you aren't as good as people in that tier, trust me.

I disagree and think you are marginalizing how big of a factor play time is in relation to "standings". I consider myself to be average in skill yet I was able to place second on the leaderboard/top in my class in a competitive campaign because I happened to have extra time to spend during that period which directly translated to me gaining a "top spot". I didn't magically improve in skill overnight; time was the deciding factor.

Casuals that use boosts still will remain far behind hardcore players due to less time played and not usually being part of competitive guilds. The argument that boosts will further separate hardcore/casual players (I disagree) isn't even relevant to casuals as a casual gamer tend to be more focused on enjoying their own singular progression instead of constantly comparing their "progression" to others.

The argument of fairness isn't relevant either as MMO's are never fair and somebody is always advantaged/disadvantaged for reasons other than individual skill. If fairness is what matter then moba's are the better games to play.

Most people play games for enjoyment and entertainment. If some people find ESO more enjoyable due to boosts then I don't see anything wrong with it. ESO has far bigger problems right now than some hypothetical conclusions of how boosts may or may not affect the game.

So your position is that you don't have one?

ssewallb14_ESO

Although the point of those pics was not to put a specific quantity on the impact of CPs or xp pots, using an example of players at the very top of the DR curve isn't much more accurate than trying to just that.

farrier_ESO wrote: »

kherzaheb17_ESO wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

kherzaheb17_ESO wrote: »

There is no problem on PvE side about xp potions.

70 CP:

[pic]

3600 CP:

[pic]

i know the difference , on pvp , mostly you are fighting real person.You need every single dps.

On pve side , none can know that you have 3600 CP or not , you can lie about it and you can join any trial.That is what i meant.

Nice, but irrelevant pictures. Thing is, at +50%, you aren't getting 70 vs 3.6k..

I'm going off this list by Exstazik:

Exstazik wrote: »

50% potion
10% mara
10% buddy
13% cyro
10% subcribe
Total:93%

Seems like the best XP bonus you can get without paying is 10% from "buddy", 13 from "cryo", for 23%. [Note: I don't even know what those two things MEAN, so I might be wrong. Please correct me if so!]

Highest you can get if you pay is 93%, like they said.

So if someone with a 93% boost hits 3600, then someone who has been grinding for the same amount of time but with only a 23% boost will be at (132/193) * 3600 = 2462.

[This assumes that the first and 3600th CP each requires the same amount of grind to obtain. If later ones require more grind, then the gap will obviously be FAR smaller. So, please correct the above if so.]

So, what stats do you get for the *best possible* placement of 2462 points? Post THAT picture, and then your point will be well made! Or else people will finally understand the concept of "diminishing returns".

farrier_ESO wrote: »

kherzaheb17_ESO wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

kherzaheb17_ESO wrote: »

There is no problem on PvE side about xp potions.

70 CP:

[pic]

3600 CP:

[pic]

i know the difference , on pvp , mostly you are fighting real person.You need every single dps.

On pve side , none can know that you have 3600 CP or not , you can lie about it and you can join any trial.That is what i meant.

Nice, but irrelevant pictures. Thing is, at +50%, you aren't getting 70 vs 3.6k..

I'm going off this list by Exstazik:

Exstazik wrote: »

50% potion
10% mara
10% buddy
13% cyro
10% subcribe
Total:93%

Seems like the best XP bonus you can get without paying is 10% from "buddy", 13 from "cryo", for 23%. [Note: I don't even know what those two things MEAN, so I might be wrong. Please correct me if so!]

Highest you can get if you pay is 93%, like they said.

So if someone with a 93% boost hits 3600, then someone who has been grinding for the same amount of time but with only a 23% boost will be at (132/193) * 3600 = 2462.

[This assumes that the first and 3600th CP each requires the same amount of grind to obtain. If later ones require more grind, then the gap will obviously be FAR smaller. So, please correct the above if so.]

So, what stats do you get for the *best possible* placement of 2462 points? Post THAT picture, and then your point will be well made! Or else people will finally understand the concept of "diminishing returns".

Attorneyatlawl

Ysne58 wrote: »

@Attorneyatlawl we still love you, you don't need to go be a janitor. These probably are play to win. Won't effect me cause I'm so far behind, I'll never catch up anyway.

/heart

But what if my dream has always been to be that insanely funny janitor guy you only see on your way out of the office, a little weird but always worth talking to for a minute? What then?!

Attorneyatlawl

kherzaheb17_ESO wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

kherzaheb17_ESO wrote: »

There is no problem on PvE side about xp potions.

70 CP:



3600 CP:

i know the difference , on pvp , mostly you are fighting real person.You need every single dps.

On pve side , none can know that you have 3600 CP or not , you can lie about it and you can join any trial.That is what i meant.

Oh, I get it now. You're one of those guys who wants to force everyone to play their way and take them in their group because gosh darnit, you deserve it! Anyone who is competitive just doesn't know how to have fun, right? /sigh

ZOS_GinaBruno

Hey guys. We're been reading your feedback and are aware of the concerns being raised here. Please remember that the item shown on the first page of this thread was datamined, and is not indicative of what the final item will be. We are still working out the exact stats and details for XP potions, and we’ll let you know as soon as our plans are more solidified and ready to share.

Attorneyatlawl

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys. We're been reading your feedback and are aware of the concerns being raised here. Please remember that the item shown on the first page of this thread was datamined, and is not indicative of what the final item will be. We are still working out the exact stats and details for XP potions, and we’ll let you know as soon as our plans are more solidified and ready to share.

Thanks for the update Gina. It's good to hear it isn't a set in stone and under some discussion, still.

WhiskyBob

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys. We're been reading your feedback and are aware of the concerns being raised here. Please remember that the item shown on the first page of this thread was datamined, and is not indicative of what the final item will be. We are still working out the exact stats and details for XP potions, and we’ll let you know as soon as our plans are more solidified and ready to share.

Hmm I see the XP potions but why stop here. How about giving us Champion Points for money. Less fuss.

Ysne58

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Ysne58 wrote: »

@Attorneyatlawl we still love you, you don't need to go be a janitor. These probably are play to win. Won't effect me cause I'm so far behind, I'll never catch up anyway.

/heart

But what if my dream has always been to be that insanely funny janitor guy you only see on your way out of the office, a little weird but always worth talking to for a minute? What then?!

Well then you go right ahead and be that insanely funny janitor. You'd be in good company with the one from Breakfast Club.

I'm not the only one who is so far behind that catching up is pointless. I won't be purchasing those potions for that reason.

Also, just to make sure everyone knows, crowns are account wide (EU & NA) but what you buy is not. This means the amount of crowns you have will go down on both accounts, but the items you buy will only apply to the account on which you purchased it. I this is just plain wrong.

Inactive Account

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys. We're been reading your feedback and are aware of the concerns being raised here. Please remember that the item shown on the first page of this thread was datamined, and is not indicative of what the final item will be. We are still working out the exact stats and details for XP potions, and we’ll let you know as soon as our plans are more solidified and ready to share.

Thank-you for the feed back. Not to sound ungrateful, Honestly, but, it's about time..!

At the time I posted this there was 670 comments and 21.2 thousand views. No deigning it,It is an important issue to your customers.

Grao

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys. We're been reading your feedback and are aware of the concerns being raised here. Please remember that the item shown on the first page of this thread was datamined, and is not indicative of what the final item will be. We are still working out the exact stats and details for XP potions, and we’ll let you know as soon as our plans are more solidified and ready to share.

Unfortunately the fact it was data mined as displayed in the picture means that is what ZoS intended to release. Now that it was heavily criticized, hopefully you guys will change the values or the entirety of that potion's functionality, restricting it from affecting CP gain.

Still, this doesn't change the fact Zenimax has taken upon them selves to remove every grind spot in the game and nerf it to the ground. What happened to play as you want? At least those of us that have already leveled one or two characters and actually have completed all the quest content don't want to be forced to go through all the quests again and we shouldn't be! @ZOS_GInaBruno , do you like being forced to read the same book over and over? I don't.

The heavy nerfs to every grind spot in the game came just in time for this Exp Potions to enter the store... I don't think it is a coincidence.

Dominoid

nobertpaulb16_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys. We're been reading your feedback and are aware of the concerns being raised here. Please remember that the item shown on the first page of this thread was datamined, and is not indicative of what the final item will be. We are still working out the exact stats and details for XP potions, and we’ll let you know as soon as our plans are more solidified and ready to share.

Thank-you for the feed back. Not to sound ungrateful, Honestly, but, it's about time..!

At the time I posted this there was 670 comments and 21.2 thousand views. No deigning it,It is an important issue to your customers.

Umm . . .three days ago in this same thread:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1651731#Comment_1651731

Inactive Account

Dominoid wrote: »

nobertpaulb16_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys. We're been reading your feedback and are aware of the concerns being raised here. Please remember that the item shown on the first page of this thread was datamined, and is not indicative of what the final item will be. We are still working out the exact stats and details for XP potions, and we’ll let you know as soon as our plans are more solidified and ready to share.

Thank-you for the feed back. Not to sound ungrateful, Honestly, but, it's about time..!

At the time I posted this there was 670 comments and 21.2 thousand views. No deigning it,It is an important issue to your customers.

Umm . . .three days ago in this same thread:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1651731#Comment_1651731

yes but that information was quoted from a month ago.

Enodoc

Grao wrote: »

Unfortunately the fact it was data mined as displayed in the picture means that is what ZoS intended to release.

It doesn't really, it just means that is what ZOS have been experimenting with at the moment. It's possible to datamine a really early version of the Main Quest as well, as well as the original 5-professions crafting system. Just because they're there, it doesn't mean ZOS ever plan to release those.

Raash

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys. We're been reading your feedback and are aware of the concerns being raised here. Please remember that the item shown on the first page of this thread was datamined, and is not indicative of what the final item will be. We are still working out the exact stats and details for XP potions, and we’ll let you know as soon as our plans are more solidified and ready to share.

I think you will kind of need to have them at 50% if you planning to sell them in the crown store because i really have a hard time to see people would pay for less actually.
Just make sure to have a 25% xp boosts in game to be bought from npc´s with ingame money and that would be alright i think. Doubt that many would make a huge fuss about missing out on the 25% if there is a "free" weaker version in game.
Then again, I would rather see there wont be any such consumables at all but if you must you must.

Iluvrien

Raash wrote: »

Then again, I would rather see there wont be any such consumables at all but if you must you must.

Although I personally disagree with the concept of these potions I can accept that some people believe they are useful or important. I still haven't seen an argument for them that convinces so I still have to query the "must".

Especially given the effect it may have on the financials of ZOS. People are saying that the potions that are bought will fund the game and therefore they are a good thing. What about the game will they fund though? Will it just be the server costs? Or the production of more crown store items? Or actual content?

That is my secondary concern. My worry, based on SWTOR and LOTRO, is that crown store additions like this one will mostly drive more crown store additions like this one. If the potions begin doing well, where is the impetus to produce new content? Real content (zones, trials, arenas, raids etc.). XP potions and similar items are easy and represent a good return on investment for the company (in terms of hours spent) but in terms of improving the quality of the game itself... nadda. They might facilitate enjoying existing content because people could get to where they want to enjoy it but further than that? Nothing. Zones on the other hand require much more time and money with regards to art production, voice acting, questing writing, modelling, animating etc.. As such the raw profit from is probably, comparatively, lower. Yet the enjoyment of the new content is likely to be much higher.

TL;DR
1) My worry is that we will see crown store items bankrolling more crown store items with occasional zone production being carried out so as to not lose too many customers before they can be efficiently fleeced.
2) My hope is that we will see crown store items bankrolling more actual content (in various forms) with new items added to the crown store when needed to further fund new content.

...guess which one I suspect is more likely though .

KhajiitiLizard

You can increase the level and magnitude of a potion when linking in chat using the code, so I doubt it's supposed to be 50%. Potions do not have a quality color as well, so that's another thing (but who knows). It might really only be about 10%.

DDuke

KhajiitiLizard wrote: »

You can increase the level and magnitude of a potion when linking in chat using the code, so I doubt it's supposed to be 50%. Potions do not have a quality color as well, so that's another thing (but who knows). It might really only be about 10%.

Does it really matter if it's 10% or 50%? Both are P2W, as long as they affect CP gain.

It's not the magnitude, it's the principle behind them (granting more power for $$$) which is bad.

DeathDealer19

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys. Matt Firor had previously mentioned in last month's Road Ahead that we would likely be adding experience boost potions to the Crown Store at some point. These types of potions follow our philosophy of only including items for convenience (and customization) in that you will spend less time to gain experience. That said, please remember that this information was datamined (that's ok!) and isn't yet available in-game, so it's not necessarily indicative of the final item that you'll see.

Just want to put my two cents in here. I have been a devoted player since day 1 of early access. I have been fine with paying 15$ a month for this "beta" that was ESO 1.0. And don't even say it wasn't a paid beta lol. This xp boost item however is going to destroy this game. Its going to *** off all of the devoted players and its the VERY DEFINITION OF PAY TO WIN. you can get champion points at a reasonable rate but you have to pay x$ per day for these potions. That's complete and utter crap ZOS. If you wanna make an XP gain potion, make it for new players. Make it so IT DOES NOT APPLY TO ENLIGHTENMENT. Ill be damned if im going to spend even more money than my 15$ sub fee just to stay competitive with other players. That's ridiculous. Im happy to keep subbing for the DLC (even though it also CRAP that paid subs don't "own" the dlc) but this is just too far in my opinion.

But hey im just one man and one voice. Be careful ZOS this one single idea can and very likely will destroy your game. I hope this item never comes out I really do but it seems that all my hope in this game being against PAY2WIN is dying. At least right now in PVE, I don't really need CP for current end game content but in PVP, CP comes into play heavily and this is going to destroy the community

Troneon

WhiskyBob wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys. We're been reading your feedback and are aware of the concerns being raised here. Please remember that the item shown on the first page of this thread was datamined, and is not indicative of what the final item will be. We are still working out the exact stats and details for XP potions, and we’ll let you know as soon as our plans are more solidified and ready to share.

Hmm I see the XP potions but why stop here. How about giving us Champion Points for money. Less fuss.

lol so true.

10 CP $10

Exstazik

green potion 10% exp-crown shop
blue-20% exp-crown shop
purple-35% exp-crown shop+craft
gold-50% exp-rare craft/reward for something (aka hard modes and etc.)

Eliteseraph

I read 10 pages before skipping to the current page, and I'm not at all surprised to see the exact same arguments being made. There seems to be some fairly common misconceptions about what actually constitutes P2W.

For PVE it literally doesn't matter if one person reaches higher level sooner than another person. Raids don't lock up because someone else got there first. Monsters, gathering nodes, and instances reset. Quests don't disappear because someone beat you to it.

There's not even the pressure of getting done what you want before your subscription runs out in ESO.

Someone getting champion points faster or slower doesn't equate to winning or losing in pve because the competition in PVE that everyone keeps referencing is an illusion created out of envy and jealously of someone else's accomplishments.

It's really that simple, even if people don't like it.

In PVP however, there's an argument to be made. Especially if the highest bracket includes the top end where everyone is pooling CP, and it isn't limited in any way. In other words: Everyone is thrown into the same pool without any consideration.

That should be easy to fix. Simply make more brackets to contain higher amounts of CP totals, or some other system to ensure relatively fair competition. Alternatively, make the benefits of CP not create such a huge impact on the power levels of a character.

People might complain about a 5% difference, but that much can just as easily be made up with skillful play, a better computer, practice, better connection, or friends.

But really there's an easier solution: PvP should be separate from PvE so it can be balanced across the board, free from problems that progression-based PvE creates for it.

Why MMOs insist on mixing the two is beyond me.

Grapdjan

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys. We're been reading your feedback and are aware of the concerns being raised here. Please remember that the item shown on the first page of this thread was datamined, and is not indicative of what the final item will be. We are still working out the exact stats and details for XP potions, and we’ll let you know as soon as our plans are more solidified and ready to share.

I hope by this you are also aware that a huge bunch of people are massively in favour of exp pots and convenience items that have some guts!

I feel sure that 100% and 200% exp pots would be amazing sellers, and be snapped up by people.

Nifty2g

You know with XP potions you still have to grind like every one else, you still have to put time into when you use them and how you use them, you still have to earn the champion points, remember, these will probably not cost that much so everyone can get them each month with your 1500 crowns or you can choose to buy them.

Pay to win is pretty much buying CP flat out, at least Zenimax are still making you grind out the stuff, and I can almost imagine if you use this potion the effect will leave if you use another potion, maybe?

farrier_ESO

Convenience is "you get the same stuff with less work". An XP boost absolutely is convenience by this definition.

P2W is "you can get better equipment/stats/etc in the store than you can with more grinding, drops or craft".

By the silly definition being used here, Imperial Horses are P2W because horses give you a significant advantage in leveling, which means you can dash through the first few levels faster, start training your riding skills faster, etc.

But people would be fine with a 10% XP boost but not a 50% boost. So 20% of an imperial horse would NOT be P2W?
What does that even MEAN?

6point6b16_ESO

Is leveling considered pay2win now adays?

Im sure these potions wont do anything about champion xp etc.. First at that point can this be called pay2win.

xryanvb16_ESO

In PVE the competition does come from progressing the fastest..... maybe if they are going to implement Boosts of this kind there could also be more systems introduced that allowed for different ways to compete in PVE Based on skills.

Like a Finesse system that awards some points based on the effectiveness of the build, skills and cooperation used in a combat situation by a given player or group of players. Then they could be rewarded and recognized for their efforts in some other way then just gaining another lvl.

cisadanepajsuxrwb17_ESO

They could be a little smarter by selling non-essential quality of life improvements such as bank slots, dyes, change the color of some spells, hell even housing at x amount of dollars in an instance.

Eliteseraph

xryanvb16_ESO wrote: »

In PVE the competition does come from progressing the fastest..... maybe if they are going to implement Boosts of this kind there could also be more systems introduced that allowed for different ways to compete in PVE Based on skills.

You may choose to compete with other players to see who can get the most levels the fastest, but there is no tangible difference for progressing faster than anyone else except MAYBE some achievement that no one cares about except 1% of the playerbase.

Again, it's your choice to view PVE as a competition, but that doesn't mean the game has to support it as well. Just because you're getting things before someone else doesn't mean other people can't also get them too!

Varicite

Eliteseraph wrote: »

xryanvb16_ESO wrote: »

In PVE the competition does come from progressing the fastest..... maybe if they are going to implement Boosts of this kind there could also be more systems introduced that allowed for different ways to compete in PVE Based on skills.

You may choose to compete with other players to see who can get the most levels the fastest, but there is no tangible difference for progressing faster than anyone else except MAYBE some achievement that no one cares about except 1% of the playerbase.

Again, it's your choice to view PVE as a competition, but that doesn't mean the game has to support it as well. Just because you're getting things before someone else doesn't mean other people can't also get them too!

PvE is a competition because ZOS designed it exactly that way, w/ timed trials and leaderboards. That is PvE endgame, period.

What you're talking about is just leveling up, and nobody cares about that at all.

This thread seems to be inundated w/ droves of people who have no idea how endgame PvE works, have no idea how endgame PvP works, and have no idea how CP effects both.

And they seem pretty adamant on telling everyone how things they don't even begin to understand will be okay, because they said so.