[Screenshot] 50% "Experience Booster" - ZOS, can we get a confirmation or further details?

Varicite

farrier_ESO wrote: »

So, this is purely whinging by PvPers who don't understand the concept of "diminishing returns"?

Seriously, have you actually whipped out a spreadsheet and calculated exactly how much more awesome a build these people could create, or are you just whimpering because you think they'll somehow be 50 better than you by some kind of "hey it says 50% in the potion so it must be true" kind of a way?

They will have stats that will be better than yours by a fraction of one percent. That is not "win" by any stretch of the imagination. A better freaking pingtime will make a bigger difference. A faster machine will make a bigger difference. Are those "pay to win", too?

Don't know where you got the idea that people think this means other people will just be 50% stronger. I certainly didn't say that, and don't think anybody else did.

I'm not sure if you've looked at the Champion System, but there are extremely powerful passives unlockable at different point thresholds (10, 30, 50, etc). They are most definitely a much larger difference than "a fraction of one percent."

12% crit isn't a fraction of one percent. 80% stam cost reduction after dodge rolling is not a fraction of one percent. The list goes on.

And also, there are PvE leaderboards as well. I'm not sure if you realize that.

farrier_ESO

Seriously: make a graph with one line for how much your DPS would increase over time, and another for someone with the same build, but a constant supply of these potions.

They will NOT be ahead of you by 12%, especially not once the first points are spent on each line. That's the whole point of diminishing returns. Eventually, you'll be basically the same. Fractions of a percent apart. That 12% crit is the biggest the gap will ever be, and there are probably already people who are ahead of you by having that.

There will be a spike of difference at each breakpoint, but essentially, there will be no giant difference between you, and someone with infinite +50% pots. Both of you will be behind someone with no job and so can afford to grind 60% longer of the day than you do.

And you will never, ever be the best. Because there are the people who REALLY pay to win: the people who just pay others to play their character 24/7 to level. The only way you could hope to get close to competing against *them* is to play 16 hours a day and quaff those potions constantly. And even then they will have better ping times, videocards and machines than you. And not better by mere fractions of percents, either.

So, given you'll never be the best, why are you whining about people who will be, at best, assuming they don't have day jobs, diminishing fractions of a percent ahead of you?

Galalin

farrier_ESO wrote: »

So, this is purely whinging by PvPers who don't understand the concept of "diminishing returns"?

Seriously, have you actually whipped out a spreadsheet and calculated exactly how much more awesome a build these people could create, or are you just whimpering because you think they'll somehow be 50 better than you by some kind of "hey it says 50% in the potion so it must be true" kind of a way?

They will have stats that will be better than yours by a fraction of one percent. That is not "win" by any stretch of the imagination. A better freaking pingtime will make a bigger difference. A faster machine will make a bigger difference. Are those "pay to win", too?

I take it you wiped on your last dungeon delve?

DK SCRUB OUT

Whov

So this means there's no point in my sub anymore? Cause I could just buy pots with the money I save from not subbing? 10% or 50%... Interesting.

Galalin

farrier_ESO wrote: »

Seriously: make a graph with one line for how much your DPS would increase over time, and another for someone with the same build, but a constant supply of these potions.

They will NOT be ahead of you by 12%, especially not once the first points are spent on each line. That's the whole point of diminishing returns. Eventually, you'll be basically the same. Fractions of a percent apart. That 12% crit is the biggest the gap will ever be, and there are probably already people who are ahead of you by having that.

There will be a spike of difference at each breakpoint, but essentially, there will be no giant difference between you, and someone with infinite +50% pots. Both of you will be behind someone with no job and so can afford to grind 60% longer of the day than you do.

And you will never, ever be the best. Because there are the people who REALLY pay to win: the people who just pay others to play their character 24/7 to level. The only way you could hope to get close to competing against *them* is to play 16 hours a day and quaff those potions constantly. And even then they will have better ping times, videocards and machines than you. And not better by mere fractions of percents, either.

So, given you'll never be the best, why are you whining about people who will be, at best, assuming they don't have day jobs, diminishing fractions of a percent ahead of you?

Why are you whinning about ppl whinning about ppl being the best?

Ppl have thier opinions you are entitled to yours as they are entitled to thiers what gives you the right to decide who gets an opinion?

State your opinion and let that be that... there is no need to call ppl whiners and tell them to stop having an opinion because you say so.

Added: how the hell would you know how it affects PvP when march 4th you started a topic stating you basically don't understand a thing about PvP and PvP builds, counters etc. And now you are an expert?

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/154715/is-it-possible-to-play-cyrodiil-casually#latest

DK SCRUB OUT

Cody

Make them very expensive to buy(like $40 expensive) and/or make it to where they have ZERO effect on the champion system.

or make them purchasable with in-game gold

or random drops.

farrier_ESO

I never said not to have an opinion, so there's no point whining about my whining about people whining

I said that if you looked at the actual numbers, this is not an issue that deserves 21 pages. This is something that will give people *initially* a few percent increase in DPS over an otherwise-equal character, which will quickly reduce to zero because of diminishing returns.

And I said that if you graphed the max DPS you can get with your existing build, in a graph of CP spent against DPS, you will find that after not very long, the diminishing returns remove even that advantage.

And I said that it's whinging to think this is a problem. Particularly since they've explicitly said that they're considering whether to make this stuff available for ingame gold, so you too can enjoy the brief moment of being "better than some people but only the ones who can spend the same amount of time in game as you, not those hardcore 24/7 players"

Galalin

farrier_ESO wrote: »

I never said not to have an opinion, so there's no point whining about my whining about people whining

I said that if you looked at the actual numbers, this is not an issue that deserves 21 pages. This is something that will give people *initially* a few percent increase in DPS over an otherwise-equal character, which will quickly reduce to zero because of diminishing returns.

And I said that if you graphed the max DPS you can get with your existing build, in a graph of CP spent against DPS, you will find that after not very long, the diminishing returns remove even that advantage.

And I said that it's whinging to think this is a problem. Particularly since they've explicitly said that they're considering whether to make this stuff available for ingame gold, so you too can enjoy the brief moment of being "better than some people but only the ones who can spend the same amount of time in game as you, not those hardcore 24/7 players"

You see you have it all wrong... PvE is about max dps... PvP is NOT about max dps.

The unlocked passives make a huge difference as well as the ones you put points into... split seconds, resources, skill cost, etc etc. The smallest of margins all make a huge difference in PvP and are the difference between life and death... that is why PvP is so hard to balance... and the way the champ system is as it sit makes a huge gap from new v14 to even one with only 90 champ points

Audigy

Varicite wrote: »

farrier_ESO wrote: »

So, this is purely whinging by PvPers who don't understand the concept of "diminishing returns"?

Seriously, have you actually whipped out a spreadsheet and calculated exactly how much more awesome a build these people could create, or are you just whimpering because you think they'll somehow be 50 better than you by some kind of "hey it says 50% in the potion so it must be true" kind of a way?

They will have stats that will be better than yours by a fraction of one percent. That is not "win" by any stretch of the imagination. A better freaking pingtime will make a bigger difference. A faster machine will make a bigger difference. Are those "pay to win", too?

Don't know where you got the idea that people think this means other people will just be 50% stronger. I certainly didn't say that, and don't think anybody else did.

I'm not sure if you've looked at the Champion System, but there are extremely powerful passives unlockable at different point thresholds (10, 30, 50, etc). They are most definitely a much larger difference than "a fraction of one percent."

12% crit isn't a fraction of one percent. 80% stam cost reduction after dodge rolling is not a fraction of one percent. The list goes on.

And also, there are PvE leaderboards as well. I'm not sure if you realize that.

And those boards wont change a bit with the pots.

Those that dominate in these leaderboards are people who have a lot more time than normal players do. They usually don't have to worry about jobs, family, friends or hobbies. They can afford to play all day and that's why they are on top and not because of a potion that increases their XP.

You act like Casual Joe will buy a pot and then suddenly he becomes Usain Bolt and wins the boards. This my friend, will never happen.

Galalin

Audigy wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

farrier_ESO wrote: »

So, this is purely whinging by PvPers who don't understand the concept of "diminishing returns"?

Seriously, have you actually whipped out a spreadsheet and calculated exactly how much more awesome a build these people could create, or are you just whimpering because you think they'll somehow be 50 better than you by some kind of "hey it says 50% in the potion so it must be true" kind of a way?

They will have stats that will be better than yours by a fraction of one percent. That is not "win" by any stretch of the imagination. A better freaking pingtime will make a bigger difference. A faster machine will make a bigger difference. Are those "pay to win", too?

Don't know where you got the idea that people think this means other people will just be 50% stronger. I certainly didn't say that, and don't think anybody else did.

I'm not sure if you've looked at the Champion System, but there are extremely powerful passives unlockable at different point thresholds (10, 30, 50, etc). They are most definitely a much larger difference than "a fraction of one percent."

12% crit isn't a fraction of one percent. 80% stam cost reduction after dodge rolling is not a fraction of one percent. The list goes on.

And also, there are PvE leaderboards as well. I'm not sure if you realize that.

And those boards wont change a bit with the pots.

Those that dominate in these leaderboards are people who have a lot more time than normal players do. They usually don't have to worry about jobs, family, friends or hobbies. They can afford to play all day and that's why they are on top and not because of a potion that increases their XP.

You act like Casual Joe will buy a pot and then suddenly he becomes Usain Bolt and wins the boards. This my friend, will never happen.

I less likely the issue is that the casual players will buy pots and be = to the hardcore players. But the other way around.

Hardcore players will be more likely to buy these pots and create a huge gap between hardcore and casual... about 50% more of a gap then is current.

But thats just my opinion

DK SCRUB OUT

farrier_ESO

Galalin wrote: »

You see you have it all wrong... PvE is about max dps... PvP is NOT about max dps.

The unlocked passives make a huge difference as well as the ones you put points into... split seconds, resources, skill cost, etc etc. The smallest of margins all make a huge difference in PvP and are the difference between life and death... that is why PvP is so hard to balance... and the way the champ system is as it sit makes a huge gap from new v14 to even one with only 90 champ points

That's actually rather well put, and answers my question about why the heck it could possibly matter about as well as it could be, I think! Thank you. In that case, I'll bow to your greater knowledge of the subject.

To me, it still looks like something that the new players can use to *catch up* with the average oldtimer, rather than something oldtimers will get much mileage out of.

But having it level-restricted, or just having it simply *not affect CP* above the level cap, feels like a viable way they could avoid causing the effect you fear. Whether they'll listen to you or not, though, time will tell. Good luck!

Nifty2g

Really don't understand why this bothers anyone, the potions will be in crownstore, probably fairly cheap too, you all get 1500 crowns a month for subscribing, no one is paying to win here?
Plus like Zeni said its convenience

Also, the XP in this game at the moment is horrible, be glad they are bringing this in

Galalin

farrier_ESO wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

You see you have it all wrong... PvE is about max dps... PvP is NOT about max dps.

The unlocked passives make a huge difference as well as the ones you put points into... split seconds, resources, skill cost, etc etc. The smallest of margins all make a huge difference in PvP and are the difference between life and death... that is why PvP is so hard to balance... and the way the champ system is as it sit makes a huge gap from new v14 to even one with only 90 champ points

That's actually rather well put, and answers my question about why the heck it could possibly matter about as well as it could be, I think! Thank you. In that case, I'll bow to your greater knowledge of the subject.

To me, it still looks like something that the new players can use to *catch up* with the average oldtimer, rather than something oldtimers will get much mileage out of.

But having it level-restricted, or just having it simply *not affect CP* above the level cap, feels like a viable way they could avoid causing the effect you fear. Whether they'll listen to you or not, though, time will tell. Good luck!

I agree the changes to PvE are not as significant and pretty well balanced for up and coming players... it sucks for PvP because its going to make it rough for the newcomers and that will not be good for the state of PvP... it essentially acts as a deterrent for most newcomers who already have to try to overcome a gap in skill, builds, etc.

farrier_ESO

Galalin wrote: »

it essentially acts as a deterrent for most newcomers who already have to try to overcome a gap in skill, builds, etc.

Yeah, but that's always the case with any MMO where people have been in there longer than you.

A level-capped version of this pot, which can't be used (at least for CP) at max level, would give them a chance of catching up, at least. But I agree with you that the unlimited, uncapped pot will probably just stretch the gap between highest and newbie.

Spottswoode

Nifty2g wrote: »

Really don't understand why this bothers anyone, the potions will be in crownstore, probably fairly cheap too, you all get 1500 crowns a month for subscribing, no one is paying to win here?
Plus like Zeni said its convenience

Also, the XP in this game at the moment is horrible, be glad they are bringing this in

1. There's 720 hours in most months. So at 12 hours a day of play, (360 hours a month) you need 180 potions to have that entire time covered. Depending on the bundles you puchase crown points in and the cost of each individual potion, it could be entirely possible for professional players to cover that entire span of time with the 50% bonus and the latent 10% bonus subscribers have. There is no possible way you could ever compete at that rate. They can easily outpace your gains with real money. Even with enlightenment bonuses, there is no way to keep up.
2. XP being horrible is not an excuse to break the D&*N game. Nor is it an excuse to ruin the game for everyone who doesn't spend 12 hours a day playing.
IF the potions don't affect CP gains, there is minimal issue. If they do, it's pay 2 win.

Galalin wrote: »

farrier_ESO wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

You see you have it all wrong... PvE is about max dps... PvP is NOT about max dps.

The unlocked passives make a huge difference as well as the ones you put points into... split seconds, resources, skill cost, etc etc. The smallest of margins all make a huge difference in PvP and are the difference between life and death... that is why PvP is so hard to balance... and the way the champ system is as it sit makes a huge gap from new v14 to even one with only 90 champ points

That's actually rather well put, and answers my question about why the heck it could possibly matter about as well as it could be, I think! Thank you. In that case, I'll bow to your greater knowledge of the subject.

To me, it still looks like something that the new players can use to *catch up* with the average oldtimer, rather than something oldtimers will get much mileage out of.

But having it level-restricted, or just having it simply *not affect CP* above the level cap, feels like a viable way they could avoid causing the effect you fear. Whether they'll listen to you or not, though, time will tell. Good luck!

I agree the changes to PvE are not as significant and pretty well balanced for up and coming players... it sucks for PvP because its going to make it rough for the newcomers and that will not be good for the state of PvP... it essentially acts as a deterrent for most newcomers who already have to try to overcome a gap in skill, builds, etc.

There is likely going to be separation based on Champion rank in the future. (I would hope so, anyway.) As they phase out VR, it will likely be phased in.

BugCollector

If you add this in the Crown Store, you could just as well start selling the best gear, gold,... P2W!

Nifty2g

BugCollector wrote: »

If you add this in the Crown Store, you could just as well start selling the best gear, gold,... P2W!

lol alright you keep thinking that

Galalin

Spottswoode wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Really don't understand why this bothers anyone, the potions will be in crownstore, probably fairly cheap too, you all get 1500 crowns a month for subscribing, no one is paying to win here?
Plus like Zeni said its convenience

Also, the XP in this game at the moment is horrible, be glad they are bringing this in

1. There's 720 hours in most months. So at 12 hours a day of play, (360 hours a month) you need 180 potions to have that entire time covered. Depending on the bundles you puchase crown points in and the cost of each individual potion, it could be entirely possible for professional players to cover that entire span of time with the 50% bonus and the latent 10% bonus subscribers have. There is no possible way you could ever compete at that rate. They can easily outpace your gains with real money. Even with enlightenment bonuses, there is no way to keep up.
2. XP being horrible is not an excuse to break the D&*N game. Nor is it an excuse to ruin the game for everyone who doesn't spend 12 hours a day playing.
IF the potions don't affect CP gains, there is minimal issue. If they do, it's pay 2 win.

Galalin wrote: »

farrier_ESO wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

You see you have it all wrong... PvE is about max dps... PvP is NOT about max dps.

The unlocked passives make a huge difference as well as the ones you put points into... split seconds, resources, skill cost, etc etc. The smallest of margins all make a huge difference in PvP and are the difference between life and death... that is why PvP is so hard to balance... and the way the champ system is as it sit makes a huge gap from new v14 to even one with only 90 champ points

That's actually rather well put, and answers my question about why the heck it could possibly matter about as well as it could be, I think! Thank you. In that case, I'll bow to your greater knowledge of the subject.

To me, it still looks like something that the new players can use to *catch up* with the average oldtimer, rather than something oldtimers will get much mileage out of.

But having it level-restricted, or just having it simply *not affect CP* above the level cap, feels like a viable way they could avoid causing the effect you fear. Whether they'll listen to you or not, though, time will tell. Good luck!

I agree the changes to PvE are not as significant and pretty well balanced for up and coming players... it sucks for PvP because its going to make it rough for the newcomers and that will not be good for the state of PvP... it essentially acts as a deterrent for most newcomers who already have to try to overcome a gap in skill, builds, etc.

There is likely going to be separation based on Champion rank in the future. (I would hope so, anyway.) As they phase out VR, it will likely be phased in.

I would hope so too but idk if that would be to great either as generally ppl start playing to join friends and if they do separate based on rank etc. thats probably not going to be to appealing to new players either

theweakminded

I enjoy the idea of these pots because some people do not have to play a ton for various reason. Sadly, this means that hardcore players get them as well. My solution: Limited uses per week.

24hr cd: *** and annoying just like hirelings.
Unlimited (expect by wallet size): P2W, hands down P2W
7 uses per week: Keeping the cd the duration of the buff and a limited number of uses per week per account allows players who play a few days a week or a few hours a day full use, while letting other players who play alot make use of them, but not so much that they destroy the game-play or others by P2W.

Though in my opinion these also must be available for gold, regardless of cost, it needs to be (even if paying with cash is more efficient.

kherzaheb17_ESO

theweakminded wrote: »

I enjoy the idea of these pots because some people do not have to play a ton for various reason. Sadly, this means that hardcore players get them as well. My solution: Limited uses per week.

24hr cd: *** and annoying just like hirelings.
Unlimited (expect by wallet size): P2W, hands down P2W
7 uses per week: Keeping the cd the duration of the buff and a limited number of uses per week per account allows players who play a few days a week or a few hours a day full use, while letting other players who play alot make use of them, but not so much that they destroy the game-play or others by P2W.

Though in my opinion these also must be available for gold, regardless of cost, it needs to be (even if paying with cash is more efficient.

do you really think that Zos will limit their cash flow by limiting XP potions ? They change the payment system to gain much more.You are so naive or you really don't know what is really going on.

theweakminded

kherzaheb17_ESO wrote: »

theweakminded wrote: »

I enjoy the idea of these pots because some people do not have to play a ton for various reason. Sadly, this means that hardcore players get them as well. My solution: Limited uses per week.

24hr cd: *** and annoying just like hirelings.
Unlimited (expect by wallet size): P2W, hands down P2W
7 uses per week: Keeping the cd the duration of the buff and a limited number of uses per week per account allows players who play a few days a week or a few hours a day full use, while letting other players who play alot make use of them, but not so much that they destroy the game-play or others by P2W.

Though in my opinion these also must be available for gold, regardless of cost, it needs to be (even if paying with cash is more efficient.

do you really think that Zos will limit their cash flow by limiting XP potions ? They change the payment system to gain much more.You are so naive or you really don't know what is really going on.

No, I am simply offering a solution to an issue. They will already have a limit to their cash flow regardless of how they pout these potions out.
a) They cost enough that not many people buy more than a few in the first place.
b) People get pissed and quit (check out some of the popular streamers/video makers. They could quit over something like this).
c) Some choice they make will limit the use of the items (intentional or not).
d) I'm not all seeing like some people here claim to be, other possibilities exist

Regardless of how you look at it, there is a limit to the cashflow these potions can make. Limiting potion use is a valid option for ZOS. My limit is merely an example, not a set figure. But go ahead, keep complaining, that is clearly effective.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

theweakminded wrote: »

kherzaheb17_ESO wrote: »

theweakminded wrote: »

I enjoy the idea of these pots because some people do not have to play a ton for various reason. Sadly, this means that hardcore players get them as well. My solution: Limited uses per week.

24hr cd: *** and annoying just like hirelings.
Unlimited (expect by wallet size): P2W, hands down P2W
7 uses per week: Keeping the cd the duration of the buff and a limited number of uses per week per account allows players who play a few days a week or a few hours a day full use, while letting other players who play alot make use of them, but not so much that they destroy the game-play or others by P2W.

Though in my opinion these also must be available for gold, regardless of cost, it needs to be (even if paying with cash is more efficient.

do you really think that Zos will limit their cash flow by limiting XP potions ? They change the payment system to gain much more.You are so naive or you really don't know what is really going on.

No, I am simply offering a solution to an issue. They will already have a limit to their cash flow regardless of how they pout these potions out.
a) They cost enough that not many people buy more than a few in the first place.
b) People get pissed and quit (check out some of the popular streamers/video makers. They could quit over something like this).
c) Some choice they make will limit the use of the items (intentional or not).
d) I'm not all seeing like some people here claim to be, other possibilities exist

Regardless of how you look at it, there is a limit to the cashflow these potions can make. Limiting potion use is a valid option for ZOS. My limit is merely an example, not a set figure. But go ahead, keep complaining, that is clearly effective.

I dont know a whole lot of people see any problems. I know I would never quit of something like this. Mainly it looks like the pvp crowd which is what maybe 2-3% of the game population? So ya I dont see any problem needing solved.

DDuke

farrier_ESO wrote: »

And I said that if you graphed the max DPS you can get with your existing build, in a graph of CP spent against DPS, you will find that after not very long, the diminishing returns remove even that advantage.

OK. I've posted this a couple of times in the thread already (you might've missed it), but here we go once again (points allocated for an optimal stamina build):

Difference between 75 & 105 CPs (40%)

• 0.3% Armour
• 1.3% Spell Resistance
• 2.1% Less Critical Strike Damage taken
• 0.4% Less DOT Damage taken
• 0.5% Less Poison, Diseaes & Magic Damage taken
• 0.5% Less Flame, Frost & Shock Damage taken
• 1.5% Stamina Recovery
• -1.3% Stamina costs
• +2.1% Physical Damage
• +2.1% Physical Critical Strike Damage.

• +12% Critical Strike chance

This is the difference between 500 & 750 CPs (50%) for a stamina build:

• -5.3% Stamina Costs Spells/Abilities
• +4.5% Stamina Regeneration
• +5.1% more Healing Reduction
• +5.8% Light/Heavy Attack Damage
• +9% Physical Critical Strike damage
• +5.9% Armour Penetration
• +1.2% Spell Resistance
• -6.9% DoT damage taken
• -5% Poison/Disease/Magic damage taken
• -5% Flame/Frost/Shock damage taken.

• When killed, heal Allies within 8m by X
• 50% reduced Gathering times
• Better items from Treasure Chests
• 15% chance to return X damage to attacker when blocking a melee attack, 5 second cooldown

As you may see, not only is the concept of "diminishing returns" totally false when some people gain things 50% faster, but it is actually the contrary; these people gain more & more power exponentially, getting even more of an advantage.



And to everyone who's writing that "oh, you'll eventually get there, so it's not P2W": you won't eventually get there. On average, people earn between 0,5-1 CP every day. There are 3600 CPs, which means we're looking at atleast 9 years of progression, after which there's no guarantees more CPs won't be added.

It is basically a hamster wheel granting power, that spins faster the more money you throw at it.

Trottz

50% Exp. Boosters granting faster CP gain is P2W. Regarding Cyrodiil.

But hey! You live freely if you havent't a reputation to lose.

DDuke

Trottz wrote: »

50% Exp. Boosters granting faster CP gain is P2W. Regarding Cyrodiil.

But hey! You live freely if you havent't a reputation to lose.

Not just Cyrodiil, but it affects everything in PvE as well, and every difficult content they might add in the future which has progression. If that progression (winning) comes through purchased boosts, it is P2W.

They have plenty of would-be console customers to lose in a couple of months, if ZOS loses their (already not so stellar) reputation.

maryriv

As long as you make a better craft-able version in game I'm okay with this.

zdkazz

maryriv wrote: »

As long as you make a better craft-able version in game I'm okay with this.

there walnt be they would make no money off of it if it could be crafted its a purchase only

Attorneyatlawl

Audigy wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

farrier_ESO wrote: »

So, this is purely whinging by PvPers who don't understand the concept of "diminishing returns"?

Seriously, have you actually whipped out a spreadsheet and calculated exactly how much more awesome a build these people could create, or are you just whimpering because you think they'll somehow be 50 better than you by some kind of "hey it says 50% in the potion so it must be true" kind of a way?

They will have stats that will be better than yours by a fraction of one percent. That is not "win" by any stretch of the imagination. A better freaking pingtime will make a bigger difference. A faster machine will make a bigger difference. Are those "pay to win", too?

Don't know where you got the idea that people think this means other people will just be 50% stronger. I certainly didn't say that, and don't think anybody else did.

I'm not sure if you've looked at the Champion System, but there are extremely powerful passives unlockable at different point thresholds (10, 30, 50, etc). They are most definitely a much larger difference than "a fraction of one percent."

12% crit isn't a fraction of one percent. 80% stam cost reduction after dodge rolling is not a fraction of one percent. The list goes on.

And also, there are PvE leaderboards as well. I'm not sure if you realize that.

And those boards wont change a bit with the pots.

Those that dominate in these leaderboards are people who have a lot more time than normal players do. They usually don't have to worry about jobs, family, friends or hobbies. They can afford to play all day and that's why they are on top and not because of a potion that increases their XP.

You act like Casual Joe will buy a pot and then suddenly he becomes Usain Bolt and wins the boards. This my friend, will never happen.

Oh, if you only knew how wrong you are.... would love to see the look on your face if you ever understood that most of it is due to skill on those top spots, and not something so meaningless as playing 16 hours a day. That isn't why you aren't as good as people in that tier, trust me. Now if casual Joe buys pots and grinds out three times the time top guys even spend doing anything related to these things and in some cases even logged in idling, and gets a huge effectiveness boost of 25%-30% as a result in a few months? Maybe casual Joe can break into the boards, by paying to win.

Kypho

Govalon wrote: »

I was right all along. Loong ago when people kept saying that pots will be only 10% so it is not pay to win and I knew all along that they won't be only 10%. Who would be stupid enough to believe such a crap. One time use, temporary boost, real life money costing potion will not give same boost as a sub bonus but nooo people would not listen. Just take it from me now on because I know things. 50% was the bare minimun xp pots were going to give. I was hoping for a 100% but 50% is a nice boost too.

February 27:

Govalon wrote: »

ZoS is not going to get my money by selling stupid hats. Potions that give more CP? Sure, that ought to get me open my wallet. And xp pots will not give only 10% that is a sub perk. One time use, limited effect time potion will give a whole lot more. Like 50%

So you gave them the idea? I blame you!!! :P

Attorneyatlawl

Trottz wrote: »

50% Exp. Boosters granting faster CP gain is P2W. Regarding Cyrodiil.

But hey! You live freely if you havent't a reputation to lose.

Nope. It is a game wide problem. Not that I'd have any clue, of course. I sure didn't craft out the couple of main dk dps setups that persisted all the way to 1.6 hitting for trials. No idea at all about game mechanics, who needs those? And definitely never killed a single person in Cyrodiil. Any stories of resource soloing as far back as beta on nightblades and dk's are patently false. No one in the Psijic group knows anything about me since I haven't ever played much. I guess I should go find a janitorial position since I must have no idea what I'm saying, being such a "scrub"? Janitors scrub stuff, it would be a good fit right? There is competition game wide and the 60% xp boost from the cash shop and subscription combined plain and simply allows for much faster power gain, which only begets even more power gain as you earn it more easily as you go. I don't think I've ever seen such a textbook example of Pay To Win as these potions are slated to be when they go live.


Clueless noob unqualified to comment here, signing out!