[Screenshot] 50% "Experience Booster" - ZOS, can we get a confirmation or further details?

olemanwinter

Makkir wrote: »

These are invaluable to a player like me who HATES to grind. I would spend every last crown on these.
On one hand, this could help boost ppl to higher vet levels and start playing in Cyrodiil

For every potion that a regular player like you buys to level up his character or alt, hardcore grinders will buy and use 5 to insure that when you get to max level you cannot compete with them and their 3000CP and you get wrecked when you "start playing in Cyrodiil".

I tested on the PTS and going against a 3000CP character with few CP is like going against an invincible guard.

The potions CANNOT be applied to Champion Points. They MUST NOT BE!

Khaldar

olemanwinter wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

These are invaluable to a player like me who HATES to grind. I would spend every last crown on these.
On one hand, this could help boost ppl to higher vet levels and start playing in Cyrodiil

For every potion that a regular player like you buys to level up his character or alt, hardcore grinders will buy and use 5 to insure that when you get to max level you cannot compete with them and their 3000CP and you get wrecked when you "start playing in Cyrodiil".

I tested on the PTS and going against a 3000CP character with few CP is like going against an invincible guard.

The potions CANNOT be applied to Champion Points. They MUST NOT BE!

The sky is falling... even with 50% bonus... How long would it take for someone with NO LIFE to grind 3000, 2000, 1000 CP? By that time ZOS better have a whole lot more content or most of us will be GONE!

FYI... 3000 CP = ~6000+ normal hours or 250+ normal game days or 500+ days of 12 hour grinding. With 50% XP those numbers are ~4800+ XP hours or 200+ XP days or 400+ XP days of 12 hour grinding... And that means 2400+ XP potions at 2 hours a potion. I know logic fails on the internet but think about it... 2400+ XP potions...

Dazin93

I hope they come out with 100% XP/AP boosters so I can maximize my time even more. Everyone talks about fairness but I don't find it particularly fair that my main build was destroyed in 1.6 but so so many others got buffed. People say just suck it up, haven't you ever played an MMO before blah blah blah.

Well the same applies here. Boosts, pay to win, convienence, whatever you want to call it exists in other MMO's and if you don't like it nobody is making you play this one.

This thread bores me.

Audigy

olemanwinter wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

These are invaluable to a player like me who HATES to grind. I would spend every last crown on these.
On one hand, this could help boost ppl to higher vet levels and start playing in Cyrodiil

For every potion that a regular player like you buys to level up his character or alt, hardcore grinders will buy and use 5 to insure that when you get to max level you cannot compete with them and their 3000CP and you get wrecked when you "start playing in Cyrodiil".

I tested on the PTS and going against a 3000CP character with few CP is like going against an invincible guard.

The potions CANNOT be applied to Champion Points. They MUST NOT BE!

If ZOS fixed all the exploits that grant massive XP, plus lowers the grind mechanics in regards of the CS then all what you said will become invalid.

The problem we have are not the potions, its the grinders and the fact that they rush through dungeons in 20 minutes time, gaining huge amounts of XP over those who actually play the game and quest or do crafting stuff.

Khaldar

Dazin93 wrote: »

I hope they come out with 100% XP/AP boosters so I can maximize my time even more. Everyone talks about fairness but I don't find it particularly fair that my main build was destroyed in 1.6 but so so many others got buffed. People say just suck it up, haven't you ever played an MMO before blah blah blah.

Well the same applies here. Boosts, pay to win, convienence, whatever you want to call it exists in other MMO's and if you don't like it nobody is making you play this one.

This thread bores me.

LOL... well said. I'm not buying them unless they are greater than 50%. But it's funny how up in arms people are for something that is common. Even wow (the unfortunate king of all MMOs) has the option to buy in at max level (CONVENIENCE).

Crica

Varicite wrote: »

Crica wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Crica wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Another basic concept that even a small child could understand is that money talks and *** walks.

Sure but at least be honest about it. If you don't want to put the same time and effort in and you don't feel like you should because you have disposable income and you don't care if you have something you didn't earn because integrity isn't important then at least you're honest.

they did earn it just not the same way you did - you earned it by spending your time on it, they earned it by working a real job for it

Games are supposed to have an inherently level playing field

the moment someone plays this game LONGER than you do, the field of this game is no longer level

The field is still level, the players just aren't at that point.

What I mean is that even though 1 player may be further along than the other, both have access to the exact same rate at which they could potentially level.

It isn't a playing field entirely dictated by the size of one's wallet, in other words.

player A buys time and has more skill points then you

player B plays longer then you and has more skill points then you

BOTH player A and player B have the SAME advantage over you, yet you only want to be upset at player A's advantage?

Makes ZERO sense to me that you would be upset at only player A's advantages over you when player B has the SAME advantages over you that player A has

Audigy

DDuke wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Screenshot from the game. Discuss.



ZOS, can we get a confirmation or further details?

Thanks in advance.

If this isn't pay to win I don't know what is.

How is this pay to win? It offers zero advantage to players other than leveling faster. It does not give you VR15, or some other stat boost, so explain...

bg22 wrote: »

cote-bmsb16_ESO wrote: »

Damn, 50%? Well, I did spend a lot of time on my first two v14s. I'd probably use it to get my other characters up to speed. Still though, it looks like P2W.

How's it pay to win? Other than leveling you to VR14 (which everyone can do without paying), what does it do that gives you an advantage?

@bg22 here is your answer:

This is the advantage just 30 points over someone else gives you:

75-105 CPs (40%) difference:
0.3% Armour
1.3% Spell Resistance
2.1% Less Critical Strike Damage taken
0.4% Less DOT Damage taken
0.5% Less Poison, Diseaes & Magic Damage taken
0.5% Less Flame, Frost & Shock Damage taken
1.5% Stamina Recovery
-1.3% Stamina costs
+2.1% Physical Damage
+2.1% Physical Critical Strike Damage.

+12% Critical Strike chance

And it only gets worse & worse..

Lets not forget the health stamina and magicka points you get for each point you put into the tree associated with the stat :P but no, dont worry. Using xp potions to get a boost to gaining cp is not pay to win *rolls eyes*

Again... This only indicates a decrease in time in which said bonuses are obtained. They do not extend the champion point cap, or the level cap, or any other stat cap.

This is simply a shortcut to the same finish line.

If 0.5% stat difference is enough for you to bank whether you win or lose, you've larger issues than character stats.

Yes, the finish line which takes about 9 years on average to reach without using XP potions.

Oh, and here's the difference between 750 & 500 CPs (50%) in case you missed it:

• -5.3% Stamina Costs Spells/Abilities
• +4.5% Stamina Regeneration
• +5.1% more Healing Reduction
• +5.8% Light/Heavy Attack Damage
• +9% Physical Critical Strike damage
• +5.9% Armour Penetration
• +1.2% Spell Resistance
• -6.9% DoT damage taken
• -5% Poison/Disease/Magic damage taken
• -5% Flame/Frost/Shock damage taken.

• When killed, heal Allies within 8m by X
• 50% reduced Gathering times
• Better items from Treasure Chests
• 15% chance to return X damage to attacker when blocking a melee attack, 5 second cooldown

If there was an armour set only available from Cash Shop, which was that much stronger than other sets (500CPs), wouldn't you consider that P2W?

That is essentially what you're buying, and it keeps getting worse & worse (as demonstrated by the difference).

The difference between 75 & 105 alone is like you were wearing a fully legendary armour set with awesome set bonuses (+12% crit, +2,1% dmg & +2,1% crit dmg alone constituting to roughly 10% DPS increase) on top of your current one.

You mix up what P2W is like so many others here.

An item set which increases your power above those which are available in game, is P2W. It is as you can not acquire said stats with non shop gear.
The potions however are as much P2W as Rings of Mara and the Sub boost. If you consider those fine and they are fine in my opinion, then you can not classify a simple potion as P2W just because someone will level faster than you.

Really guys, those are so simple to understand things and you make such a big drama about all of this. P2W games like SWTOR, GW2 are to blame, ESO however isn't.

And you can not acquire said stat difference without using the boosters.

What if it was an armour set with the above stats, which required you to grind 4 years to achieve it?

Player X who purchases boosters gets it after 3 years, destroys you in PvP & takes your raid slot for a year.

Assuming you sticked around, when you've finally got this OP gear after 4 years of grinding, Player X has purchased even stronger gear (let's say 1125 CP, 50% more than the 750CP you finally reached).

He's destroying you even more in PvP, and you've no business in end game PvE anymore.


It might not be gear they're selling through the Cash Shop, but they're selling the same result (power).


And for the record, I am not fine with any kind of XP booster affecting end game power. If it's subscription, I can maybe stomach that (as I feel the need to punish "I want to play for free" crowd that caused all this mess). Nothing else.

Rings of Mara bonus is negligible btw, as it requires you to sacrifice a jewelry slot, which very well might cause you to earn XP slower due to less stats. It also requires you to play with your Mara buddy, who might not be online every time you are. Requires testing, but I doubt the XP bonus is really worth sacrificing a ring slot.

Lets pin a few bullet points here,

1. Raid slots

You mentioned that you will lose your raid slot if you don't buy the potion. While this is indeed possible, it has nothing to do with the potions, but the guild you are in. If a guild really kicks out members just because they don't have as many CP as non members, then there is something seriously wrong in said guild.
But this whole fear is simply put based on the fact that most guilds these days have nothing social, but are a tiny dictatorship of someone ruling and excluding the "weaker" players from progressing in said game.

My advice, get a friendly and social guild - this should fix said problem.

Its however important to say that the CS will have a huge impact on pugging and I am not happy about that. Soon players will demand 100 CP for a Vet dungeon, then 300 etc. Its the same miserable situation with achievement and gear checks, its elitism and shouldn't be tolerated by ZOS. Sadly, there is not much they can do about it, except removing any type of premade content from this game.

2.PVP

I agree that some players with massive amounts of CP will gain an advantage over you. Its a similar situation like at WOW with the BG´s. Some players do ranked and gain incredible strong gear, while those who don't are just cannon fodder.

Because of this, ZOS must create brackets. Someone with 1k CP must play with his own kind and not with those not even having a single CP.

I do hope that ZOS is aware of that and that they will fix this problem as soon more players have arrived in Tamriel.

3. Conclusion

As you can see, specific game mechanics are here to blame, just like the players playing this game. The potions however are not, they are just what every MMO has these days, a shortcut for those with less time. Yes they are sadly also abused by grinders and those who play 10 hours or more a day - that's why changing the basics of the CP would help.

CP´s should be based on achievements, on one time opportunities and grinding in the same location should face serious consequences, such as diminishing returns after killing the same mob twice up to zero XP after the 5th kill. (24 reset).


I see your fear don't get me wrong, but the potion isn't the problem here as I tried to explain above.

Crica

Audigy wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Screenshot from the game. Discuss.



ZOS, can we get a confirmation or further details?

Thanks in advance.

If this isn't pay to win I don't know what is.

How is this pay to win? It offers zero advantage to players other than leveling faster. It does not give you VR15, or some other stat boost, so explain...

bg22 wrote: »

cote-bmsb16_ESO wrote: »

Damn, 50%? Well, I did spend a lot of time on my first two v14s. I'd probably use it to get my other characters up to speed. Still though, it looks like P2W.

How's it pay to win? Other than leveling you to VR14 (which everyone can do without paying), what does it do that gives you an advantage?

@bg22 here is your answer:

This is the advantage just 30 points over someone else gives you:

75-105 CPs (40%) difference:
0.3% Armour
1.3% Spell Resistance
2.1% Less Critical Strike Damage taken
0.4% Less DOT Damage taken
0.5% Less Poison, Diseaes & Magic Damage taken
0.5% Less Flame, Frost & Shock Damage taken
1.5% Stamina Recovery
-1.3% Stamina costs
+2.1% Physical Damage
+2.1% Physical Critical Strike Damage.

+12% Critical Strike chance

And it only gets worse & worse..

Lets not forget the health stamina and magicka points you get for each point you put into the tree associated with the stat :P but no, dont worry. Using xp potions to get a boost to gaining cp is not pay to win *rolls eyes*

Again... This only indicates a decrease in time in which said bonuses are obtained. They do not extend the champion point cap, or the level cap, or any other stat cap.

This is simply a shortcut to the same finish line.

If 0.5% stat difference is enough for you to bank whether you win or lose, you've larger issues than character stats.

Yes, the finish line which takes about 9 years on average to reach without using XP potions.

Oh, and here's the difference between 750 & 500 CPs (50%) in case you missed it:

• -5.3% Stamina Costs Spells/Abilities
• +4.5% Stamina Regeneration
• +5.1% more Healing Reduction
• +5.8% Light/Heavy Attack Damage
• +9% Physical Critical Strike damage
• +5.9% Armour Penetration
• +1.2% Spell Resistance
• -6.9% DoT damage taken
• -5% Poison/Disease/Magic damage taken
• -5% Flame/Frost/Shock damage taken.

• When killed, heal Allies within 8m by X
• 50% reduced Gathering times
• Better items from Treasure Chests
• 15% chance to return X damage to attacker when blocking a melee attack, 5 second cooldown

If there was an armour set only available from Cash Shop, which was that much stronger than other sets (500CPs), wouldn't you consider that P2W?

That is essentially what you're buying, and it keeps getting worse & worse (as demonstrated by the difference).

The difference between 75 & 105 alone is like you were wearing a fully legendary armour set with awesome set bonuses (+12% crit, +2,1% dmg & +2,1% crit dmg alone constituting to roughly 10% DPS increase) on top of your current one.

You mix up what P2W is like so many others here.

An item set which increases your power above those which are available in game, is P2W. It is as you can not acquire said stats with non shop gear.
The potions however are as much P2W as Rings of Mara and the Sub boost. If you consider those fine and they are fine in my opinion, then you can not classify a simple potion as P2W just because someone will level faster than you.

Really guys, those are so simple to understand things and you make such a big drama about all of this. P2W games like SWTOR, GW2 are to blame, ESO however isn't.

And you can not acquire said stat difference without using the boosters.

What if it was an armour set with the above stats, which required you to grind 4 years to achieve it?

Player X who purchases boosters gets it after 3 years, destroys you in PvP & takes your raid slot for a year.

Assuming you sticked around, when you've finally got this OP gear after 4 years of grinding, Player X has purchased even stronger gear (let's say 1125 CP, 50% more than the 750CP you finally reached).

He's destroying you even more in PvP, and you've no business in end game PvE anymore.


It might not be gear they're selling through the Cash Shop, but they're selling the same result (power).


And for the record, I am not fine with any kind of XP booster affecting end game power. If it's subscription, I can maybe stomach that (as I feel the need to punish "I want to play for free" crowd that caused all this mess). Nothing else.

Rings of Mara bonus is negligible btw, as it requires you to sacrifice a jewelry slot, which very well might cause you to earn XP slower due to less stats. It also requires you to play with your Mara buddy, who might not be online every time you are. Requires testing, but I doubt the XP bonus is really worth sacrificing a ring slot.

Lets pin a few bullet points here,

1. Raid slots

You mentioned that you will lose your raid slot if you don't buy the potion. While this is indeed possible, it has nothing to do with the potions, but the guild you are in. If a guild really kicks out members just because they don't have as many CP as non members, then there is something seriously wrong in said guild.
But this whole fear is simply put based on the fact that most guilds these days have nothing social, but are a tiny dictatorship of someone ruling and excluding the "weaker" players from progressing in said game.

My advice, get a friendly and social guild - this should fix said problem.

Its however important to say that the CS will have a huge impact on pugging and I am not happy about that. Soon players will demand 100 CP for a Vet dungeon, then 300 etc. Its the same miserable situation with achievement and gear checks, its elitism and shouldn't be tolerated by ZOS. Sadly, there is not much they can do about it, except removing any type of premade content from this game.

2.PVP

I agree that some players with massive amounts of CP will gain an advantage over you. Its a similar situation like at WOW with the BG´s. Some players do ranked and gain incredible strong gear, while those who don't are just cannon fodder.

Because of this, ZOS must create brackets. Someone with 1k CP must play with his own kind and not with those not even having a single CP.

I do hope that ZOS is aware of that and that they will fix this problem as soon more players have arrived in Tamriel.

3. Conclusion

As you can see, specific game mechanics are here to blame, just like the players playing this game. The potions however are not, they are just what every MMO has these days, a shortcut for those with less time. Yes they are sadly also abused by grinders and those who play 10 hours or more a day - that's why changing the basics of the CP would help.

CP´s should be based on achievements, on one time opportunities and grinding in the same location should face serious consequences, such as diminishing returns after killing the same mob twice up to zero XP after the 5th kill. (24 reset).


I see your fear don't get me wrong, but the potion isn't the problem here as I tried to explain above.

both of these scenarios happen RIGHT NOW with players who have played this game LONGER than others

someone who has played the game longer then someone else will have more skill points for both raiding and pvp and can "take raid spots" from players who dont play as long and "crush them in pvp"

Exstazik

if this potion affect 1-50.It's ok
if this potion affect Champion System it's p2w

Khaldar

Exstazik wrote: »

if this potion affect 1-50.It's ok
if this potion affect Champion System it's p2w

If it affects 1-VR14, its worthless to me. Because I prefer to grind my abilities and Fighter's guild rep on my alts. So an increase in XP would actually shorten the window on the Fighter's guild grinding while leveling up. And VR14 is the worst level to grind CP and abilities currently.

Sandmanninja

Here is the question:
Does the item let you kill monsters faster?
Does it let you do more damage?
Does it let you take more damage?

If no, then who gives a flying fark.
Let players RUSH to end content and then complain about nothing to do.

These items are NOT pay to win.

Exstazik

Sandmanninja wrote: »

Here is the question:
Does the item let you kill monsters faster?
Does it let you do more damage?
Does it let you take more damage?

If no, then who gives a flying fark.
Let players RUSH to end content and then complain about nothing to do.

These items are NOT pay to win.

exp potion--->increase exp amount--->increase CP amount--->increase character damage/power.This is logic.

Zsymon

Anyone who grinds hours on end is jobless (very common in this economy, not our fault) and cannot afford these potions, which means people who do have a job and can afford the potions, are a little closer in power to the grinders, which is a very good thing. They'll still have less CPs than the grinders, but at least they won't be so far behind anymore.

You just have to make sure the potions are expensive enough, otherwise grinders will scraggle up the money to boost their grinding even more.

These 50% boosters really have to be implemented, they will partly solve the problem of the Champion power-gap. To be honest I would add 100% experience boosters, because even with 50% the gap will still be too wide.

But make sure these booster potions can only be bought, they should not be able to be found for free in-game, or be rewards for anything in-game. They need to be available only to people who pay for them. Otherwise you just boost the grinders and the power gap will increase again.

Spottswoode

Zsymon wrote: »

Much ado about nothing, 50% for 2 hours for such a high price, sounds a lot better than it is, you cannot buy one of these potions every two hours unless you have very, very rich parents and no job.

Were that true, I'd be much less of a critic of F2P/B2P. People break themselves to feed addictions.

Seraphyel

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys. Matt Firor had previously mentioned in last month's Road Ahead that we would likely be adding experience boost potions to the Crown Store at some point. These types of potions follow our philosophy of only including items for convenience (and customization) in that you will spend less time to gain experience. That said, please remember that this information was datamined (that's ok!) and isn't yet available in-game, so it's not necessarily indicative of the final item that you'll see.

Yeah, those potions truely make Champion System grind a P2W thing. Well thought.

Grapdjan

DDuke wrote: »

Dazin93 wrote: »

those for the boosts, such as myself, would rather invest more money and less time into the game as we find our time more valuable.

Dazin93 wrote: »

There always is, and it's about my game experience not somebody else's.

The sheer arrogance of these statements... so basically you want to tell us how much better you are, because $$$.

Newsflash: your time isn't any more valuable than mine, or the time of the person next to me.

Learn to live with it.

From a fiscal point of view his time may well be worth many times what your time is worth. He's not better than you 'cos $$$' as you eloquently put it, but he's going to be a better customer than you, cos$$$.

I also, as I've mentioned, would happily pay for boosters to help me at least feel like I was keeping up with the twenty hours a day people.

nanaya

Welcome to Elder Scrolls Online community:
- Where I do grind????
- Our grind spots was nerfed!!!!!
- I don't want to pve, but I want to level fast!!!
"Zos add exp potions which you can buy for ingame gold (read Road ahead)"
PAY TO WIN! DISBALANCE! THEY WANT OUR MONEY!

AshySamurai

nanaya wrote: »

Welcome to Elder Scrolls Online community:
- Where I do grind????
- Our grind spots was nerfed!!!!!
- I don't want to pve, but I want to level fast!!!
"Zos add exp potions which you can buy for ingame gold (read Road ahead)"
PAY TO WIN! DISBALANCE! THEY WANT OUR MONEY!

Yep, you also need to read Road Ahead, they only think about it.

ArcVelarian

PKMN12 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys. Matt Firor had previously mentioned in last month's Road Ahead that we would likely be adding experience boost potions to the Crown Store at some point. These types of potions follow our philosophy of only including items for convenience (and customization) in that you will spend less time to gain experience. That said, please remember that this information was datamined (that's ok!) and isn't yet available in-game, so it's not necessarily indicative of the final item that you'll see.

It is NOT just for convenience though, thanks to the champion system, you are adding endgame progression, stats, ans passives to the crown store. Someone who buys those poisons is going to be 100% superior to someone who does not.

That is NOT convenience, if all the posts here that are against it should tell you, the devs do this, and this game goes back to be considered a joke by pretty much everyone.

there is only 3 things that yo can say that will stop this game from being a joke with these potions:

1. The potions will only be 10% or so
2. The potions can be bought with gold at a reasonable price or be gotten in some other way in-game without cash.
3. they will NOT effect the champion system at all

4. They are not usable by veteran rank characters.

DDuke

Audigy wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Screenshot from the game. Discuss.



ZOS, can we get a confirmation or further details?

Thanks in advance.

If this isn't pay to win I don't know what is.

How is this pay to win? It offers zero advantage to players other than leveling faster. It does not give you VR15, or some other stat boost, so explain...

bg22 wrote: »

cote-bmsb16_ESO wrote: »

Damn, 50%? Well, I did spend a lot of time on my first two v14s. I'd probably use it to get my other characters up to speed. Still though, it looks like P2W.

How's it pay to win? Other than leveling you to VR14 (which everyone can do without paying), what does it do that gives you an advantage?

@bg22 here is your answer:

This is the advantage just 30 points over someone else gives you:

75-105 CPs (40%) difference:
0.3% Armour
1.3% Spell Resistance
2.1% Less Critical Strike Damage taken
0.4% Less DOT Damage taken
0.5% Less Poison, Diseaes & Magic Damage taken
0.5% Less Flame, Frost & Shock Damage taken
1.5% Stamina Recovery
-1.3% Stamina costs
+2.1% Physical Damage
+2.1% Physical Critical Strike Damage.

+12% Critical Strike chance

And it only gets worse & worse..

Lets not forget the health stamina and magicka points you get for each point you put into the tree associated with the stat :P but no, dont worry. Using xp potions to get a boost to gaining cp is not pay to win *rolls eyes*

Again... This only indicates a decrease in time in which said bonuses are obtained. They do not extend the champion point cap, or the level cap, or any other stat cap.

This is simply a shortcut to the same finish line.

If 0.5% stat difference is enough for you to bank whether you win or lose, you've larger issues than character stats.

Yes, the finish line which takes about 9 years on average to reach without using XP potions.

Oh, and here's the difference between 750 & 500 CPs (50%) in case you missed it:

• -5.3% Stamina Costs Spells/Abilities
• +4.5% Stamina Regeneration
• +5.1% more Healing Reduction
• +5.8% Light/Heavy Attack Damage
• +9% Physical Critical Strike damage
• +5.9% Armour Penetration
• +1.2% Spell Resistance
• -6.9% DoT damage taken
• -5% Poison/Disease/Magic damage taken
• -5% Flame/Frost/Shock damage taken.

• When killed, heal Allies within 8m by X
• 50% reduced Gathering times
• Better items from Treasure Chests
• 15% chance to return X damage to attacker when blocking a melee attack, 5 second cooldown

If there was an armour set only available from Cash Shop, which was that much stronger than other sets (500CPs), wouldn't you consider that P2W?

That is essentially what you're buying, and it keeps getting worse & worse (as demonstrated by the difference).

The difference between 75 & 105 alone is like you were wearing a fully legendary armour set with awesome set bonuses (+12% crit, +2,1% dmg & +2,1% crit dmg alone constituting to roughly 10% DPS increase) on top of your current one.

You mix up what P2W is like so many others here.

An item set which increases your power above those which are available in game, is P2W. It is as you can not acquire said stats with non shop gear.
The potions however are as much P2W as Rings of Mara and the Sub boost. If you consider those fine and they are fine in my opinion, then you can not classify a simple potion as P2W just because someone will level faster than you.

Really guys, those are so simple to understand things and you make such a big drama about all of this. P2W games like SWTOR, GW2 are to blame, ESO however isn't.

And you can not acquire said stat difference without using the boosters.

What if it was an armour set with the above stats, which required you to grind 4 years to achieve it?

Player X who purchases boosters gets it after 3 years, destroys you in PvP & takes your raid slot for a year.

Assuming you sticked around, when you've finally got this OP gear after 4 years of grinding, Player X has purchased even stronger gear (let's say 1125 CP, 50% more than the 750CP you finally reached).

He's destroying you even more in PvP, and you've no business in end game PvE anymore.


It might not be gear they're selling through the Cash Shop, but they're selling the same result (power).


And for the record, I am not fine with any kind of XP booster affecting end game power. If it's subscription, I can maybe stomach that (as I feel the need to punish "I want to play for free" crowd that caused all this mess). Nothing else.

Rings of Mara bonus is negligible btw, as it requires you to sacrifice a jewelry slot, which very well might cause you to earn XP slower due to less stats. It also requires you to play with your Mara buddy, who might not be online every time you are. Requires testing, but I doubt the XP bonus is really worth sacrificing a ring slot.

Lets pin a few bullet points here,

1. Raid slots

You mentioned that you will lose your raid slot if you don't buy the potion. While this is indeed possible, it has nothing to do with the potions, but the guild you are in. If a guild really kicks out members just because they don't have as many CP as non members, then there is something seriously wrong in said guild.
But this whole fear is simply put based on the fact that most guilds these days have nothing social, but are a tiny dictatorship of someone ruling and excluding the "weaker" players from progressing in said game.

My advice, get a friendly and social guild - this should fix said problem.

Its however important to say that the CS will have a huge impact on pugging and I am not happy about that. Soon players will demand 100 CP for a Vet dungeon, then 300 etc. Its the same miserable situation with achievement and gear checks, its elitism and shouldn't be tolerated by ZOS. Sadly, there is not much they can do about it, except removing any type of premade content from this game.

I guess you're not a competitive end-game raider. Stop talking.

I'm not interested in friendly and social, I'm interested in success, and success comes through skill & dedication (not derping around, wiping because people don't have good enough gear or enough CP).

Audigy wrote: »

2.PVP

I agree that some players with massive amounts of CP will gain an advantage over you. Its a similar situation like at WOW with the BG´s. Some players do ranked and gain incredible strong gear, while those who don't are just cannon fodder.

Because of this, ZOS must create brackets. Someone with 1k CP must play with his own kind and not with those not even having a single CP.

I do hope that ZOS is aware of that and that they will fix this problem as soon more players have arrived in Tamriel.

The difference here is that those people in WoW who reached the higher ranked levels earned it by being talented enough to get there. Nothing wrong with getting rewarded for skill.

Can you imagine the outrage, if you could simply throw around some money & get into the top of ranked way before the actually skilled players?

Audigy wrote: »

3. Conclusion

As you can see, specific game mechanics are here to blame, just like the players playing this game. The potions however are not, they are just what every MMO has these days, a shortcut for those with less time. Yes they are sadly also abused by grinders and those who play 10 hours or more a day - that's why changing the basics of the CP would help.

CP´s should be based on achievements, on one time opportunities and grinding in the same location should face serious consequences, such as diminishing returns after killing the same mob twice up to zero XP after the 5th kill. (24 reset).


I see your fear don't get me wrong, but the potion isn't the problem here as I tried to explain above.

Specific game mechanics (infinite XP based Champion System grind) are in place in order to sell XP boosters. You'd have to be blind not to see it.

I agree there are problems with Champion System, it being time based rather than skill based.

Beating difficult PvE challenges, or other players in PvP should be the end game progression, not grinding.

DDuke

Grapdjan wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Dazin93 wrote: »

those for the boosts, such as myself, would rather invest more money and less time into the game as we find our time more valuable.

Dazin93 wrote: »

There always is, and it's about my game experience not somebody else's.

The sheer arrogance of these statements... so basically you want to tell us how much better you are, because $$$.

Newsflash: your time isn't any more valuable than mine, or the time of the person next to me.

Learn to live with it.

From a fiscal point of view his time may well be worth many times what your time is worth. He's not better than you 'cos $$$' as you eloquently put it, but he's going to be a better customer than you, cos$$$.

I also, as I've mentioned, would happily pay for boosters to help me at least feel like I was keeping up with the twenty hours a day people.

Yet, the passionate gamers bring the game countless views via word of mouth, youtube, twitch etc, while P2W simply serves to drive people away.

Is his time truly "worth" more than mine, or anyone else's, or is that just an illusionary pedestal?

This is how most people feel about P2W: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159484/do-you-want-p2w/p1

Also, boosters won't help you keep up with twenty hours a day people who use XP boosters. In fact, it only makes the gap exponentially bigger.

Let's say you play 4 hours/day & purchase 2 potions. This helps you gain 3 CPs instead of 2. Player X plays 20 hours and doesn't purchase potions, he earns 10 CPs every day.
Meanwhile, Player Z plays 20 hours a day and purchases 10 potions each day. He gains 15 CPs every day (this is 5 extra, as opposed to your one extra CP).

This has been explained a couple of times in the thread, but maybe you missed it? You will not close any gaps, they will only get exponentially bigger.


I always chuckle when a minority tries to oppress the majority, it doesn't tend to end well.

ItsGlaive

I'll be surprised if we get any response other than "we told you we would" from ZOS. A few people have said that the signs were there, and they're kind of right, all the exp alterations in recent months, the endless exp grind of CP. They're gearing up to cash in hugely on EXP pots, I don't think they give a damn whether we stick around for it or not so long as the whales and P2W crowd do.

NewBlacksmurf

Lionxoft wrote: »

Screenshot from the game. Discuss.



ZOS, can we get a confirmation or further details?

Thanks in advance.

The new players when console releases and new players on PC should have a chance to catch up to VR14.
Ppl are making an issue over a non issue.

Skafsgaard

ESO has become another sad example of how a marketing team, whose sole focus is short-term profit-maximization completely wrecks a game.

I guess it's time for ESO and by extension Tamriel to die a quiet death, where only single player fanatics of the series lurk and a few people with 3600 CPs beat each other.

(no, my guild gets my stuff - NOT you)

Skafsgaard

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Screenshot from the game. Discuss.



ZOS, can we get a confirmation or further details?

Thanks in advance.

The new players when console releases and new players on PC should have a chance to catch up to VR14.
Ppl are making an issue over a non issue.

Try to read thread?

Do people with time & money exist? How can you catch up to them?

If this item goes on it will make any catching up entirely impossible, whereas before you could be maybe 100 CPs behind, and that would be ok. Now that number will be closer to 500 or 700.

For the guy who engages in no competitive end game content at all or is only interested in questing it doesnt matter, that percantage is low, even for ESO. Most players choose to play an MMO because they want to compare/compete in a meaningful way - but yea, I gave up on this game pretty much as soon as I understood the implementation of CP system, as it's purpose became obvious.

Skjoldur

olemanwinter wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

These are invaluable to a player like me who HATES to grind. I would spend every last crown on these.
On one hand, this could help boost ppl to higher vet levels and start playing in Cyrodiil

For every potion that a regular player like you buys to level up his character or alt, hardcore grinders will buy and use 5 to insure that when you get to max level you cannot compete with them and their 3000CP and you get wrecked when you "start playing in Cyrodiil".

I tested on the PTS and going against a 3000CP character with few CP is like going against an invincible guard.

The potions CANNOT be applied to Champion Points. They MUST NOT BE!

Okay, does this also mean, that with the current CP system, anyone that starts playing the game in about one year will never have a chance against players that started getting CP today?

I don't think it will be _that_ extreme.

Varicite

Crica wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Crica wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Crica wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Another basic concept that even a small child could understand is that money talks and *** walks.

Sure but at least be honest about it. If you don't want to put the same time and effort in and you don't feel like you should because you have disposable income and you don't care if you have something you didn't earn because integrity isn't important then at least you're honest.

they did earn it just not the same way you did - you earned it by spending your time on it, they earned it by working a real job for it

Games are supposed to have an inherently level playing field

the moment someone plays this game LONGER than you do, the field of this game is no longer level

The field is still level, the players just aren't at that point.

What I mean is that even though 1 player may be further along than the other, both have access to the exact same rate at which they could potentially level.

It isn't a playing field entirely dictated by the size of one's wallet, in other words.

player A buys time and has more skill points then you

player B plays longer then you and has more skill points then you

BOTH player A and player B have the SAME advantage over you, yet you only want to be upset at player A's advantage?

Makes ZERO sense to me that you would be upset at only player A's advantages over you when player B has the SAME advantages over you that player A has

It makes perfect sense, as Player B worked for the advantage over me, at the exact same (or at least comparable) rate that I could have worked to be at that same level.

Player A didn't. He did 50% less work and still has either the same or more CP than me, but he gets an allowance and doesn't have to pay rent, so he somehow deserves to be better than me in a video game.

Yes, it does matter how they got to that point.

If there's a race, and Driver A actually runs the entire track while Driver B just cuts through half of the track to the finish line, then no... Driver B doesn't deserve the same reward as Driver A.

Dekken_Blake

My major problem with EXP boosters affecting CP gain is that it completely defeats the purpose of a gradual progression system, which is what Zenimax intended in the first place. I like that there is a path of continuous growth for my characters that goes beyond maxing out my level and gear. Also, it is not something that is easy to grind out, and should not be sped up by purchased items.

I think that the concerns about certain players with an excess of money gaining a significant advantage over others are entirely justified. However, I believe the focus of the argument should be that purchasable EXP boosters that influence CP gain defeat the purpose of a gradual progression system intended to reward dedicated, long-term players.

Gyudan

Some say the Prophet became blind after reading about ZOS' plans for ESO in the Elder Scrolls.

ItsGlaive

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Screenshot from the game. Discuss.



ZOS, can we get a confirmation or further details?

Thanks in advance.

The new players when console releases and new players on PC should have a chance to catch up to VR14.
Ppl are making an issue over a non issue.

How will they catch up? Sure they'll level quicker, but if you don't think VR14s will be using these to grind away at champion points then you're missing the point entirely. It'll widen the gap, not close it.