[Screenshot] 50% "Experience Booster" - ZOS, can we get a confirmation or further details?
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bg22✭✭✭✭✭
✭
How is this pay to win? It offers zero advantage to players other than leveling faster. It does not give you VR15, or some other stat boost, so explain...cote-bmsb16_ESO wrote: »Damn, 50%? Well, I did spend a lot of time on my first two v14s. I'd probably use it to get my other characters up to speed. Still though, it looks like P2W.
How's it pay to win? Other than leveling you to VR14 (which everyone can do without paying), what does it do that gives you an advantage?
@bg22 here is your answer:
This is the advantage just 30 points over someone else gives you:
75-105 CPs (40%) difference:
0.3% Armour
1.3% Spell Resistance
2.1% Less Critical Strike Damage taken
0.4% Less DOT Damage taken
0.5% Less Poison, Diseaes & Magic Damage taken
0.5% Less Flame, Frost & Shock Damage taken
1.5% Stamina Recovery
-1.3% Stamina costs
+2.1% Physical Damage
+2.1% Physical Critical Strike Damage.
+12% Critical Strike chance
And it only gets worse & worse..
Lets not forget the health stamina and magicka points you get for each point you put into the tree associated with the stat :P but no, dont worry. Using xp potions to get a boost to gaining cp is not pay to win *rolls eyes*
Again... This only indicates a decrease in time in which said bonuses are obtained. They do not extend the champion point cap, or the level cap, or any other stat cap.
This is simply a shortcut to the same finish line.
If 0.5% stat difference is enough for you to bank whether you win or lose, you've larger issues than character stats.
Yes, the finish line which takes about 9 years on average to reach without using XP potions.
Oh, and here's the difference between 750 & 500 CPs (50%) in case you missed it:- -5.3% Stamina Costs Spells/Abilities
- +4.5% Stamina Regeneration
- +5.1% more Healing Reduction
- +5.8% Light/Heavy Attack Damage
- +9% Physical Critical Strike damage
- +5.9% Armour Penetration
- +1.2% Spell Resistance
- -6.9% DoT damage taken
- -5% Poison/Disease/Magic damage taken
- -5% Flame/Frost/Shock damage taken.
- When killed, heal Allies within 8m by X
- 50% reduced Gathering times
- Better items from Treasure Chests
- 15% chance to return X damage to attacker when blocking a melee attack, 5 second cooldown
If there was an armour set only available from Cash Shop, which was that much stronger than other sets (500CPs), wouldn't you consider that P2W?
That is essentially what you're buying, and it keeps getting worse & worse (as demonstrated by the difference).
The difference between 75 & 105 alone is like you were wearing a fully legendary armour set with awesome set bonuses (+12% crit, +2,1% dmg & +2,1% crit dmg alone constituting to roughly 10% DPS increase) on top of your current one.
So, your worry is that it will only take 4.5 years rather than 9. -.-
To answer your question, yes. That would be B2W, because now you've gained an ADDITIONAL 500 points worth of stats.
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Crica✭✭prototypefb wrote: »when it comes to PVP, this potion adds p2w element
ANYONE who has acquired more exp points than you in PVP, regardless of how they acquired them, is going to win? Why does it matter if they got them via xp potions or by just playing longer than you? You are not going to win either way, correct?Edited by Crica on March 20, 2015 8:51PM0 -
Lionxoft✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hi everyone, this conversation is more than a little heated, and some of the sports/steroids comparisons have teetered towards going off topics. Let's please try to refocus the discussion, and keep all of the posts civil and constructive.
We aren't going to lock this, but please remember to abide by the forum rules. Additionally, as we posted about in here, we will be much less tolerant of any type of behavior that hurts everyone’s experience. This includes trolling, demands, abusive or insulting language toward our community members, developers, company, or ESO itself.
It's fine to disagree, and it's fine to be critical, but if this thread continues to have problems it will be locked.
@ZOS_AlanG Can you give us clarification regarding this in-game item? I think methods of obtaining it along with the duration and magnitude of the buff with some rough price points would be a good start. That would be an awesome way to calm down some of the speculation and lessen the heat.
Thanks.
They said earlier in Gina's quote that it is not ready for release and that is something they are considering. And even though it was datamined at 50% it doesn't mean that is what it will be.
I'm fully aware of Gina's response in the thread I created. The point of this thread was the request more information from ZOS and for the community to discuss. Pretty great discussion so far whether we notice it or not. There have actually been some pretty solid ideas.0 -
Khaldar✭✭✭
I'm all for buying more content. I'm not even interested in buying an XP pot, but I'm not going to chastise those that do. And I'm not going to blame ZOS for trying to generate revenue after switching to B2P. Would I like them to go the content route? Hell yeah. But, I realize it is a money making business before it is a charity business.1 -
Obscure✭✭✭✭✭
That scenario is no different than a legendary item randomly dropping for me and not for you after we both kill the same mobThe funny part of these threads is they always boil down to people throwing analogies at each other.
"Ok guys, say you have these two professional bowlers ..."
Here's one for you:
I spend two hours to earn what you earn in three hours and we do the same thing.
Repeatable Quest: Clean the Port-o-potties at Sheogorath's Chlli-Con-Carne Cook Off and Laxative Appreciation Festival
Reward: 10,000 XP
It's a crappy quest but I get 15,000 XP to do it, you get 10,000.
Same crap, better reward. Why? Because I pay more than you do. Not because I'm better at that crap, but because I have more money to burn to be better rewarded for crap.
It's no different if I paid money to get a 50% better legendary drop rate and you didn't.
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Donum-Dei✭✭✭IF available, it WILL be a Crown Store item. People will buy those...
No this shouldn't be in C.S. This should be one of those rare items that really are important only in situations like trials or dungeons bosses etc. Giving this for fun in C.S. will be a fiasco.0 -
Crica✭✭
Nope, it's not. You having a legendary before I do doesn't affect my gameplay at all. If it did, then I would be upset that you randomly got one before me even if you did NOT pay to get it.
That scenario is no different than a legendary item randomly dropping for me and not for you after we both kill the same mobThe funny part of these threads is they always boil down to people throwing analogies at each other.
"Ok guys, say you have these two professional bowlers ..."
Here's one for you:
I spend two hours to earn what you earn in three hours and we do the same thing.
Repeatable Quest: Clean the Port-o-potties at Sheogorath's Chlli-Con-Carne Cook Off and Laxative Appreciation Festival
Reward: 10,000 XP
It's a crappy quest but I get 15,000 XP to do it, you get 10,000.
Same crap, better reward. Why? Because I pay more than you do. Not because I'm better at that crap, but because I have more money to burn to be better rewarded for crap.
It's no different if I paid money to get a 50% better legendary drop rate and you didn't.
Edited by Crica on March 20, 2015 8:55PM1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »There is a difference. A person shouldn't feel proud because they have more money to burn and thus can make their character more powerful faster. They should be able to be proud of the time they invested in their character. I have a V14 and I have another character I am working on who is V7. I also have a V1 I might some day go back to. I am somehow managing just fine without XP boosts and working a full time job.
Who are you to tell anyone what they should be proud of. You may be proud to spend all your non work hours behind a keyboard but you have no right to tell others they have to. It is a bloody video game. It is not a job or a marriage or fathering or anything else that deserves real pride. It is a bloody video game.
I have a V12, a V10, a V6 and a V1. I would be proud to use an exp potion. What a pompous position you have to insist everyone else be just like you. Thank God there are only a few like you who need to determine my or anyone elses worth.
No one is saying you should spend all your non work hours behind a keyboard. If you feel your time is better spent elsewhere, then spend it elsewhere, but don't come back expecting to be stronger in game than the ones who actually spent time in it to achieve those things & then punish them by beating them in PvP or taking their raid slot because you had more $$$.
In an ideal world, no one should be forced to do anything, be it purchasing XP potions or playing 24/7. Instead, you're going to be forced to do both if you want to stay competitive.
Also, I find your post rather ironic. You talk about others determining your worth, while simultaneously elevating yourself above others on premise of having more $$$.4 -
BigM✭✭✭✭✭
✭LOL to all of you still posting!!!
On one side we have the people that love to sit and enjoy that steak dinner with a good drink.
On the other side we have the fast food people that want to get to end fast so they can hit the next fast food place.“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.”
― Stephen Hawking1 -
prototypefb✭✭✭✭prototypefb wrote: »when it comes to PVP, this potion adds p2w element
ANYONE who has acquired more exp points than you in PVP, regardless of how they acquired them, is going to win? Why does it matter if they got them via xp potions or by just playing longer than you? You are not going to win either way, correct?
well, any huge advantage would be bad for game overall.
differences in cp are not that significant thankfully...
any additional XP+CP gain is welcome by me unless it's strictly cash shop item, which is what i oppose a bit.
IF ZOS add exact same item available in game(as reward is some daily 10-20 min dungeon or quest), i'm very supportive of this idea!0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
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How is this pay to win? It offers zero advantage to players other than leveling faster. It does not give you VR15, or some other stat boost, so explain...cote-bmsb16_ESO wrote: »Damn, 50%? Well, I did spend a lot of time on my first two v14s. I'd probably use it to get my other characters up to speed. Still though, it looks like P2W.
How's it pay to win? Other than leveling you to VR14 (which everyone can do without paying), what does it do that gives you an advantage?
@bg22 here is your answer:
This is the advantage just 30 points over someone else gives you:
75-105 CPs (40%) difference:
0.3% Armour
1.3% Spell Resistance
2.1% Less Critical Strike Damage taken
0.4% Less DOT Damage taken
0.5% Less Poison, Diseaes & Magic Damage taken
0.5% Less Flame, Frost & Shock Damage taken
1.5% Stamina Recovery
-1.3% Stamina costs
+2.1% Physical Damage
+2.1% Physical Critical Strike Damage.
+12% Critical Strike chance
And it only gets worse & worse..
Lets not forget the health stamina and magicka points you get for each point you put into the tree associated with the stat :P but no, dont worry. Using xp potions to get a boost to gaining cp is not pay to win *rolls eyes*
Again... This only indicates a decrease in time in which said bonuses are obtained. They do not extend the champion point cap, or the level cap, or any other stat cap.
This is simply a shortcut to the same finish line.
If 0.5% stat difference is enough for you to bank whether you win or lose, you've larger issues than character stats.
Yes, the finish line which takes about 9 years on average to reach without using XP potions.
Oh, and here's the difference between 750 & 500 CPs (50%) in case you missed it:- -5.3% Stamina Costs Spells/Abilities
- +4.5% Stamina Regeneration
- +5.1% more Healing Reduction
- +5.8% Light/Heavy Attack Damage
- +9% Physical Critical Strike damage
- +5.9% Armour Penetration
- +1.2% Spell Resistance
- -6.9% DoT damage taken
- -5% Poison/Disease/Magic damage taken
- -5% Flame/Frost/Shock damage taken.
- When killed, heal Allies within 8m by X
- 50% reduced Gathering times
- Better items from Treasure Chests
- 15% chance to return X damage to attacker when blocking a melee attack, 5 second cooldown
If there was an armour set only available from Cash Shop, which was that much stronger than other sets (500CPs), wouldn't you consider that P2W?
That is essentially what you're buying, and it keeps getting worse & worse (as demonstrated by the difference).
The difference between 75 & 105 alone is like you were wearing a fully legendary armour set with awesome set bonuses (+12% crit, +2,1% dmg & +2,1% crit dmg alone constituting to roughly 10% DPS increase) on top of your current one.
So, your worry is that it will only take 4.5 years rather than 9. -.-
To answer your question, yes. That would be B2W, because now you've gained an ADDITIONAL 500 points worth of stats.
No, of course not. Why do you think they made it take 9 years on average? Conveniently XP boosters appear, hmm...
Ideally, a game should reward those who are good at it (through difficult content) & thus incentivize other people to play & become better at it.
Not time or money spent.
Grinds do have their place though, but not as be-all and end-all of character progression.
What other games have done with reputation gear is a good example: good gear pieces obtainable by grinding a lot, but not something you must do.3 -
angel59✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »There is a difference. A person shouldn't feel proud because they have more money to burn and thus can make their character more powerful faster. They should be able to be proud of the time they invested in their character. I have a V14 and I have another character I am working on who is V7. I also have a V1 I might some day go back to. I am somehow managing just fine without XP boosts and working a full time job.
Who are you to tell anyone what they should be proud of. You may be proud to spend all your non work hours behind a keyboard but you have no right to tell others they have to. It is a bloody video game. It is not a job or a marriage or fathering or anything else that deserves real pride. It is a bloody video game.
I have a V12, a V10, a V6 and a V1. I would be proud to use an exp potion. What a pompous position you have to insist everyone else be just like you. Thank God there are only a few like you who need to determine my or anyone elses worth.
No one is saying you should spend all your non work hours behind a keyboard. If you feel your time is better spent elsewhere, then spend it elsewhere, but don't come back expecting to be stronger in game than the ones who actually spent time in it to achieve those things & then punish them by beating them in PvP or taking their raid slot because you had more $$$.
In an ideal world, no one should be forced to do anything, be it purchasing XP potions or playing 24/7. Instead, you're going to be forced to do both if you want to stay competitive.
Also, I find your post rather ironic. You talk about others determining your worth, while simultaneously elevating yourself above others on premise of having more $$$.
Please show me where I said I had more $$$. That is right, I didn't. As a matter of fact, the message does not even tell me if I am working, married or raising kids. Stick with video games because your reading comprehension certainly wont gain you points. If you are referring to the word "worth", it does not mean money. It means self esteem or "pride".1 -
prototypefb✭✭✭✭what's next?
Rent a house in Cyrodiil 10$/month?
50% reduced monster respawn time 25$/month?
20% reduced incoming damage 50$/month?
100% increased AP gain 20$/month?
Working Shadow Cloak 10$/month? XD
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xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I knew they were coming from what zos said in the past, so it's not shock. But, 50% is waay too much, especially when you get a 10% sub bonus, a 10% marriage bonus, a group bonus and the 4x enlightement speed (which is twice as high as it really should be on its own). These potions should just be for a 10% boost IMO, at most 25%.-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC1 -
Flynch✭✭✭✭Well thank God being an Imperial came just below the bracket of being 'OP that it's pay to win' that it can't be used as an eye-opener for how these things have been in game since launch and yet the sky hasn't fallen.
Or even the horse that cost 1 gold that means you could level quicker because you were physically faster than anyone without the horse.
And that without this edition being more expensive than the standard edition, it's entirely plausible that we'd be having this B2P/P2W conversation 6 months ago, rather than today. With less content.
Because that'd be downright awkward.0 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The real issue that needs to be addressed isnt experience pots, but the need for experience pots.
The exp given out is way too low in this game and that is why I would support any percent gain in exp from cash shop items.4 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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See that's where you're wrong. How a person spends their time is meaningless to me. If people choose to spend their time questing, grinding, PvPing or just running dungeons for pieces of armor it's their business. But people should not be rewarded differently for the same time and effort put in. This is a basic concept that even a small child could understand. Nobody should have an advantage just because they paid more.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
There is a difference. A person shouldn't feel proud because they have more money to burn and thus can make their character more powerful faster. They should be able to be proud of the time they invested in their character. I have a V14 and I have another character I am working on who is V7. I also have a V1 I might some day go back to. I am somehow managing just fine without XP boosts and working a full time job.Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Don't talk about sports then if you know nothing about how it works. The Yankees are a baseball team by the way.......
Two great teams are coming up on a playoff game. One team decides they deserve to win and boosts up their batters with 'roids. Who has the statistical edge now? Just like XP pots over time where a guy ends up with 1500cp vs. someone else's 1000, even though they play similar amounts of time and are about the same skill level, simply because one paid up the toll to buy some 'roids (50% xp boost pots for endgame progression).
So now you have empirical evidence that athletes that use steroids are superior to those that don't and categorically outperform those that do not use drugs. Please provide a source because I am not buying this argument.
There's a reason they're illegal: they give you an unfair advantage over others.
But in truth, the only reason they're illegal is because they're dangerous to your health.
Otherwise everyone would use them, and there would be no unfair advantages.
This is not the case with XP boosters however. Not everyone has thousands of $$$ to throw at the game, thus making it an unfair advantage (available only to a small portion of playerbase).
Not that I want to take sides but is that any worse than saying not everyone has thousands of hours to play games?
just asking, don't hurt me.
So in the end your argument is based on your opinion of how others should or shouldn't feel. I don't find that very compelling. People should be able to play the game however they want and find satisfaction or pride in whatever they want to find it in without others being jealous and spiteful because they enjoy different things or have different priorities. I don't bash on roleplayers, hardcore players, or casuals. If they are enjoying the game in a way that is meaningful to them then more power to them.
:trollin:3 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Another basic concept that even a small child could understand is that money talks and *** walks.2 -
Obscure✭✭✭✭✭
Nope, it's not. You having a legendary before I do doesn't affect my gameplay at all. If it did, then I would be upset that you randomly got one before me even if you did NOT pay to get it.
That scenario is no different than a legendary item randomly dropping for me and not for you after we both kill the same mobThe funny part of these threads is they always boil down to people throwing analogies at each other.
"Ok guys, say you have these two professional bowlers ..."
Here's one for you:
I spend two hours to earn what you earn in three hours and we do the same thing.
Repeatable Quest: Clean the Port-o-potties at Sheogorath's Chlli-Con-Carne Cook Off and Laxative Appreciation Festival
Reward: 10,000 XP
It's a crappy quest but I get 15,000 XP to do it, you get 10,000.
Same crap, better reward. Why? Because I pay more than you do. Not because I'm better at that crap, but because I have more money to burn to be better rewarded for crap.
It's no different if I paid money to get a 50% better legendary drop rate and you didn't.
Oh my oh my how it so extremely does. If I have a better drop rate than you, as does everyone else who pays for it, and we statically see more and more legendary items go on the market, by the time you get the drop it will be worth far less. Hell you're likely to simply be able to afford to buy it in an economy you'd otherwise never be able to.
Nothing optimal in an MMO doesn't effect you. It's not a vacuous environment where the actions of one are independent of the environment. It's the guiding force we know as "Meta Gaming" and it ALWAYS EFFECTS YOU.
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eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Sure but at least be honest about it. If you don't want to put the same time and effort in and you don't feel like you should because you have disposable income and you don't care if you have something you didn't earn because integrity isn't important then at least you're honest.Personofsecrets wrote: »Another basic concept that even a small child could understand is that money talks and *** walks.
:trollin:3 -
Crica✭✭
not to me it wont, and if it did matter to me, like i said, i would already have been upset the moment you got one before i did even if you did NOT pay for it
by the time you get the drop it will be worth far less
Nope, it's not. You having a legendary before I do doesn't affect my gameplay at all. If it did, then I would be upset that you randomly got one before me even if you did NOT pay to get it.
That scenario is no different than a legendary item randomly dropping for me and not for you after we both kill the same mobThe funny part of these threads is they always boil down to people throwing analogies at each other.
"Ok guys, say you have these two professional bowlers ..."
Here's one for you:
I spend two hours to earn what you earn in three hours and we do the same thing.
Repeatable Quest: Clean the Port-o-potties at Sheogorath's Chlli-Con-Carne Cook Off and Laxative Appreciation Festival
Reward: 10,000 XP
It's a crappy quest but I get 15,000 XP to do it, you get 10,000.
Same crap, better reward. Why? Because I pay more than you do. Not because I'm better at that crap, but because I have more money to burn to be better rewarded for crap.
It's no different if I paid money to get a 50% better legendary drop rate and you didn't.Edited by Crica on March 20, 2015 9:38PM0 -
Crica✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Sure but at least be honest about it. If you don't want to put the same time and effort in and you don't feel like you should because you have disposable income and you don't care if you have something you didn't earn because integrity isn't important then at least you're honest.Personofsecrets wrote: »Another basic concept that even a small child could understand is that money talks and *** walks.
they did earn it just not the same way you did - you earned it by spending your time on it, they earned it by working a real job for it1 -
Bethruz✭✭I wouldn't want to get boost for gaining XP or faster level up. For me leveling up in game is just one thing comes up while playing. I mean I have all the time in the world to come vr14. I like to spend my time in there exploring the world and I believe that is the spirit of all Elder Scrolls games.
For me power leveling up is boring and not my mug of mead I don't have loads of time to play in my life and have quite a lot of work and other things than playing to do. Quite rarely have possibility to have 6 hour game sessions, but still the speed of gaining XP in game at the moment is working ok for me.
More important are the other stuff like costumes, pets, mounts etc. in Crown Store.
One thing I would looove to see in Elder Scrolls Online is the possibility to buy own house in Tamriel. It's been talked at some point but haven't heard any comments about it lately..Edited by Bethruz on March 20, 2015 9:40PM1 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Sure but at least be honest about it. If you don't want to put the same time and effort in and you don't feel like you should because you have disposable income and you don't care if you have something you didn't earn because integrity isn't important then at least you're honest.Personofsecrets wrote: »Another basic concept that even a small child could understand is that money talks and *** walks.
they did earn it just not the same way you did - you earned it by spending your time on it, they earned it by working a real job for it
This is like saying that working out and eating healthy to lose weight is the same as liposuction...Edited by Varicite on March 20, 2015 9:45PM3 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Sure but at least be honest about it. If you don't want to put the same time and effort in and you don't feel like you should because you have disposable income and you don't care if you have something you didn't earn because integrity isn't important then at least you're honest.Personofsecrets wrote: »Another basic concept that even a small child could understand is that money talks and *** walks.
they did earn it just not the same way you did - you earned it by spending your time on it, they earned it by working a real job for it
You do know that increasingly large amounts of people are able to play video games for living these days? Of course, this probably does not equal to a "real job" to you.
Regardless, what you do outside the game (be it playing other games or working as bartender, doesn't matter) should never hold sway in game.
Games are not about who can throw most money at the screen, but who is better. That's it.
If you want to play a game where you throw money at the screen, try Candy Crush, or any of the billion trashy "forgotten" MMOs out there. There's enough options for players with your mentality, not so many for those looking for quality.2 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Understand that the normal state of the world is that you pay for what you want. In no hobby will you get far without throwing down some dollars.
1 -
Crica✭✭
no its not, since no one is being unhealthy by working a real job to earn things in a gameeventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Sure but at least be honest about it. If you don't want to put the same time and effort in and you don't feel like you should because you have disposable income and you don't care if you have something you didn't earn because integrity isn't important then at least you're honest.Personofsecrets wrote: »Another basic concept that even a small child could understand is that money talks and *** walks.
they did earn it just not the same way you did - you earned it by spending your time on it, they earned it by working a real job for it
This is like saying that working out and eating healthy to lose weight is the same as liposuction...
0 -
RealRobD✭✭✭Yes please and thank you ZOS.
I have a stack of money sitting right here with your name on it.
I can haz potions?
PS
Hurry up lol1 -
Crica✭✭
but they do - lifting weights outside of playing football holds sway in football, for example, and im sure you get the idea and can think of MANY more things that you do outside of a game that DOES hold sway in a game
what you do outside the game (be it playing other games or working as bartender, doesn't matter) should never hold sway in gameeventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Sure but at least be honest about it. If you don't want to put the same time and effort in and you don't feel like you should because you have disposable income and you don't care if you have something you didn't earn because integrity isn't important then at least you're honest.Personofsecrets wrote: »Another basic concept that even a small child could understand is that money talks and *** walks.
they did earn it just not the same way you did - you earned it by spending your time on it, they earned it by working a real job for it0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Personofsecrets wrote: »Understand that the normal state of the world is that you pay for what you want. In no hobby will you get far without throwing down some dollars.
This is entirely false.
All that matters in getting far in a hobby, is being good. You get nowhere if you're bad, no matter how much money you have.
In fact, I'd say the majority of sports athletes were raised in normal or poor families, and then rose to success due to their talent & dedication.
So no, money is not something you throw around in order to succeed.
In fact, it's the other way around: money is something they throw at you when you succeed.Edited by DDuke on March 20, 2015 10:13PM1
