[Screenshot] 50% "Experience Booster" - ZOS, can we get a confirmation or further details?

RunAway

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys. Matt Firor had previously mentioned in last month's Road Ahead that we would likely be adding experience boost potions to the Crown Store at some point. These types of potions follow our philosophy of only including items for convenience (and customization) in that you will spend less time to gain experience. That said, please remember that this information was datamined (that's ok!) and isn't yet available in-game, so it's not necessarily indicative of the final item that you'll see.

Gaining champion points much faster than everyone else is Pay to Win. You all said it wasn't going to be Pay to Win.

XP boosts are not convenience. You pay money, to level faster, bypassing content and gaining champion points faster.

DDuke

Audigy wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Screenshot from the game. Discuss.



ZOS, can we get a confirmation or further details?

Thanks in advance.

If this isn't pay to win I don't know what is.

How is this pay to win? It offers zero advantage to players other than leveling faster. It does not give you VR15, or some other stat boost, so explain...

bg22 wrote: »

cote-bmsb16_ESO wrote: »

Damn, 50%? Well, I did spend a lot of time on my first two v14s. I'd probably use it to get my other characters up to speed. Still though, it looks like P2W.

How's it pay to win? Other than leveling you to VR14 (which everyone can do without paying), what does it do that gives you an advantage?

@bg22 here is your answer:

This is the advantage just 30 points over someone else gives you:

75-105 CPs (40%) difference:
0.3% Armour
1.3% Spell Resistance
2.1% Less Critical Strike Damage taken
0.4% Less DOT Damage taken
0.5% Less Poison, Diseaes & Magic Damage taken
0.5% Less Flame, Frost & Shock Damage taken
1.5% Stamina Recovery
-1.3% Stamina costs
+2.1% Physical Damage
+2.1% Physical Critical Strike Damage.

+12% Critical Strike chance

And it only gets worse & worse..

Lets not forget the health stamina and magicka points you get for each point you put into the tree associated with the stat :P but no, dont worry. Using xp potions to get a boost to gaining cp is not pay to win *rolls eyes*

Again... This only indicates a decrease in time in which said bonuses are obtained. They do not extend the champion point cap, or the level cap, or any other stat cap.

This is simply a shortcut to the same finish line.

If 0.5% stat difference is enough for you to bank whether you win or lose, you've larger issues than character stats.

Yes, the finish line which takes about 9 years on average to reach without using XP potions.

Oh, and here's the difference between 750 & 500 CPs (50%) in case you missed it:

• -5.3% Stamina Costs Spells/Abilities
• +4.5% Stamina Regeneration
• +5.1% more Healing Reduction
• +5.8% Light/Heavy Attack Damage
• +9% Physical Critical Strike damage
• +5.9% Armour Penetration
• +1.2% Spell Resistance
• -6.9% DoT damage taken
• -5% Poison/Disease/Magic damage taken
• -5% Flame/Frost/Shock damage taken.

• When killed, heal Allies within 8m by X
• 50% reduced Gathering times
• Better items from Treasure Chests
• 15% chance to return X damage to attacker when blocking a melee attack, 5 second cooldown

If there was an armour set only available from Cash Shop, which was that much stronger than other sets (500CPs), wouldn't you consider that P2W?

That is essentially what you're buying, and it keeps getting worse & worse (as demonstrated by the difference).

The difference between 75 & 105 alone is like you were wearing a fully legendary armour set with awesome set bonuses (+12% crit, +2,1% dmg & +2,1% crit dmg alone constituting to roughly 10% DPS increase) on top of your current one.

You mix up what P2W is like so many others here.

An item set which increases your power above those which are available in game, is P2W. It is as you can not acquire said stats with non shop gear.
The potions however are as much P2W as Rings of Mara and the Sub boost. If you consider those fine and they are fine in my opinion, then you can not classify a simple potion as P2W just because someone will level faster than you.

Really guys, those are so simple to understand things and you make such a big drama about all of this. P2W games like SWTOR, GW2 are to blame, ESO however isn't.

And you can not acquire said stat difference without using the boosters.

What if it was an armour set with the above stats, which required you to grind 4 years to achieve it?

Player X who purchases boosters gets it after 3 years, destroys you in PvP & takes your raid slot for a year.

Assuming you sticked around, when you've finally got this OP gear after 4 years of grinding, Player X has purchased even stronger gear (let's say 1125 CP, 50% more than the 750CP you finally reached).

He's destroying you even more in PvP, and you've no business in end game PvE anymore.


It might not be gear they're selling through the Cash Shop, but they're selling the same result (power).


And for the record, I am not fine with any kind of XP booster affecting end game power. If it's subscription, I can maybe stomach that (as I feel the need to punish "I want to play for free" crowd that caused all this mess). Nothing else.

Rings of Mara bonus is negligible btw, as it requires you to sacrifice a jewelry slot, which very well might cause you to earn XP slower due to less stats. It also requires you to play with your Mara buddy, who might not be online every time you are. Requires testing, but I doubt the XP bonus is really worth sacrificing a ring slot.

Xsorus

I remember when pay to win actually meant buying stuff off a store that couldn't be attained in game such as a suit of armor with greater stats. Not sure when xp potions became p2w... Probably along the same time grouping up with 30 guildies was not considered Zerging cause it was organized.

RunAway

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

I remember when pay to win actually meant buying stuff off a store that couldn't be attained in game such as a suit of armor with greater stats. Not sure when xp potions became p2w... Probably along the same time grouping up with 30 guildies was not considered Zerging cause it was organized.

People being about to level 70% faster than others, gaining champ points faster, bypassing zone quests and dungeons to grind, making it harder for others to complete dungeons. Then everyone else has to put up with the "OMG GAME HAS NO CONTENT 3-VR14 IN ONE WEEK!!".

Also, as someone put it before...

1-Don't remove vet ranks even though people hate them and they require a huge grind.
2-Sell XP potions.
3-PROFIT.

Muizer

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

... our philosophy of only including items for convenience (and customization) in that you will spend less time to gain experience.

I'm no good at philosophy. For instance, can there be such a thing as "legalised bribery"?

Xsorus

RunAway wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

I remember when pay to win actually meant buying stuff off a store that couldn't be attained in game such as a suit of armor with greater stats. Not sure when xp potions became p2w... Probably along the same time grouping up with 30 guildies was not considered Zerging cause it was organized.

People being about to level 70% faster than others, gaining champ points faster, bypassing zone quests and dungeons to grind, making it harder for others to complete dungeons. Then everyone else has to put up with the "OMG GAME HAS NO CONTENT 3-VR14 IN ONE WEEK!!".

Only people won't level 70% faster then others. The mythical world in which 2 people do the exact same thing for a year results in this guy being super far ahead does not exist. You'll have people who are lifeless grinders who will always be ahead and you'll have people who don't play a lot who will always be behind. You will likely not notice xp pots at all in game. The only people who are worried about are people looking for an excuse on why they lost in pvp.

Varicite

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

I remember when pay to win actually meant buying stuff off a store that couldn't be attained in game such as a suit of armor with greater stats. Not sure when xp potions became p2w... Probably along the same time grouping up with 30 guildies was not considered Zerging cause it was organized.

About the same time that xp became directly linked to character power.

WAY moreso than gear in this game. The best endgame sets don't even come close to touching what a good number of CP can net you in terms of character strength.

Putting unobtainable gear on the Crown store would actually be LESS P2W than XP potions if they grant 50% more CP as well.

kewl

How could you not have anticipated this? They are who we thought they were.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWmQbk5h86w

Muizer

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

The only people who are worried about are people looking for an excuse on why they lost in pvp.

Because they found one?

kewl

And for anybody who is still outraged and/or surprised. Take a look, posted 10 months ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov3B26h12C4

Xsorus

Varicite wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

I remember when pay to win actually meant buying stuff off a store that couldn't be attained in game such as a suit of armor with greater stats. Not sure when xp potions became p2w... Probably along the same time grouping up with 30 guildies was not considered Zerging cause it was organized.

About the same time that xp became directly linked to character power.

WAY moreso than gear in this game. The best endgame sets don't even come close to touching what a good number of CP can net you in terms of character strength.

Putting unobtainable gear on the Crown store would actually be LESS P2W than XP potions if they grant 50% more CP as well.

You do realize that everyone can gain xp right? Putting unobtainable gear on the crown store would be pay to win because the only way you could get it is via paying money for it. Xp pots just increase the speed of which I do something in game. Hell by your standards if I was to setup a second account to run with me 24/7 that's be pay to win because I'm getting xp faster via grouping, sure you could group as well but since I have a dedicated account for it I'll always have the advantage. Could even give it a ring of Mara for another xp boost, I could even spend more money and make them imperials which would result in more fps for stamina builds and less down time via that heal. That's more pay to win right there. *grin*

Xsorus

kewl wrote: »

And for anybody who is still outraged and/or surprised. Take a look, posted 10 months ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov3B26h12C4

Posting a video from that guy is not the brightest thing.

Khaldar

RunAway wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys. Matt Firor had previously mentioned in last month's Road Ahead that we would likely be adding experience boost potions to the Crown Store at some point. These types of potions follow our philosophy of only including items for convenience (and customization) in that you will spend less time to gain experience. That said, please remember that this information was datamined (that's ok!) and isn't yet available in-game, so it's not necessarily indicative of the final item that you'll see.

Gaining champion points much faster than everyone else is Pay to Win. You all said it wasn't going to be Pay to Win.

XP boosts are not convenience. You pay money, to level faster, bypassing content and gaining champion points faster.

Qualitative reasoning fails... Much faster? 1.5 CP for every 1 CP doesn't seem much faster when you still have to grind and grind and grind. 50% XP isn't that sexy in my opinion. Maybe it is for those people who want to grind 1000 CP and earn 1500 CP... that would still take 2000+ hours (In theory)... Or 83+ days (or 166+ days at 12 hours a day) of straight non-stop grinding and biological atrophy to achieve such a respectable life achievement. If becoming Cartman and dining on cheesy poofs and ESO is someone's idea of winning, they can have fun with that.

DDuke

Khaldar wrote: »

RunAway wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys. Matt Firor had previously mentioned in last month's Road Ahead that we would likely be adding experience boost potions to the Crown Store at some point. These types of potions follow our philosophy of only including items for convenience (and customization) in that you will spend less time to gain experience. That said, please remember that this information was datamined (that's ok!) and isn't yet available in-game, so it's not necessarily indicative of the final item that you'll see.

Gaining champion points much faster than everyone else is Pay to Win. You all said it wasn't going to be Pay to Win.

XP boosts are not convenience. You pay money, to level faster, bypassing content and gaining champion points faster.

Qualitative reasoning fails... Much faster? 1.5 CP for every 1 CP doesn't seem much faster when you still have to grind and grind and grind. 50% XP isn't that sexy in my opinion. Maybe it is for those people who want to grind 1000 CP and earn 1500 CP... that would still take 2000+ hours (In theory)... Or 83+ days (or 166+ days at 12 hours a day) of straight non-stop grinding and biological atrophy to achieve such a respectable life achievement. If becoming Cartman and dining on cheesy poofs and ESO is someone's idea of winning, they can have fun with that.

It might not be your idea of winning, but will you enjoy being the loser to these people whose idea of winning it is?

Will you (and your friends) enjoy it when "Cartman" soloes your whole group by smashing his forehead on keyboard?

Will you enjoy it, when "Cartman" & other "Cartmans" don't invite you to groups, because you didn't buy potions to get enough CP?

I doubt you will. I know I won't, and I know a good portion of the playerbase won't.

Varicite

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

I remember when pay to win actually meant buying stuff off a store that couldn't be attained in game such as a suit of armor with greater stats. Not sure when xp potions became p2w... Probably along the same time grouping up with 30 guildies was not considered Zerging cause it was organized.

About the same time that xp became directly linked to character power.

WAY moreso than gear in this game. The best endgame sets don't even come close to touching what a good number of CP can net you in terms of character strength.

Putting unobtainable gear on the Crown store would actually be LESS P2W than XP potions if they grant 50% more CP as well.

You do realize that everyone can gain xp right? Putting unobtainable gear on the crown store would be pay to win because the only way you could get it is via paying money for it. Xp pots just increase the speed of which I do something in game. Hell by your standards if I was to setup a second account to run with me 24/7 that's be pay to win because I'm getting xp faster via grouping, sure you could group as well but since I have a dedicated account for it I'll always have the advantage. Could even give it a ring of Mara for another xp boost, I could even spend more money and make them imperials which would result in more fps for stamina builds and less down time via that heal. That's more pay to win right there. *grin*

XP grants you a much higher increase in power than gear does in this game. Gear does not let you win when compared to a decent number of CP.

If unobtainable gear is P2W, then gaining an extra CP for every 2 that another player is gaining is most definitely in the realm of paying to win.

XP pots directly increase the speed that your character gains power in relation to others.

By your analogy, outright buying unobtainable gear isn't even P2W because, after all, you still have to play your character, right?

MisterBigglesworth

Oh, entire modern game industry which includes ZOS... your skeezy psychological manipulation machines posing as video games makes me weap for humanity...

No seriously.

It's depressing.

Khaldar

DDuke wrote: »

Khaldar wrote: »

RunAway wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys. Matt Firor had previously mentioned in last month's Road Ahead that we would likely be adding experience boost potions to the Crown Store at some point. These types of potions follow our philosophy of only including items for convenience (and customization) in that you will spend less time to gain experience. That said, please remember that this information was datamined (that's ok!) and isn't yet available in-game, so it's not necessarily indicative of the final item that you'll see.

Gaining champion points much faster than everyone else is Pay to Win. You all said it wasn't going to be Pay to Win.

XP boosts are not convenience. You pay money, to level faster, bypassing content and gaining champion points faster.

Qualitative reasoning fails... Much faster? 1.5 CP for every 1 CP doesn't seem much faster when you still have to grind and grind and grind. 50% XP isn't that sexy in my opinion. Maybe it is for those people who want to grind 1000 CP and earn 1500 CP... that would still take 2000+ hours (In theory)... Or 83+ days (or 166+ days at 12 hours a day) of straight non-stop grinding and biological atrophy to achieve such a respectable life achievement. If becoming Cartman and dining on cheesy poofs and ESO is someone's idea of winning, they can have fun with that.

It might not be your idea of winning, but will you enjoy being the loser to these people whose idea of winning it is?

Will you (and your friends) enjoy it when "Cartman" soloes your whole group by smashing his forehead on keyboard?

Will you enjoy it, when "Cartman" & other "Cartmans" don't invite you to groups, because you didn't buy potions to get enough CP?

I doubt you will. I know I won't, and I know a good portion of the playerbase won't.

I don't care about someone beating me in this game. It is my hobby (slight addiction). What I care about is someone taking a $2.5m RL account from me while I am grinding in ESO.

My career success >>>>>>>>>>>> ESO.

And my college success was >>>>>>>>>>> EQ.

My priorities are not tied to my hobby.

Xsorus

Varicite wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

I remember when pay to win actually meant buying stuff off a store that couldn't be attained in game such as a suit of armor with greater stats. Not sure when xp potions became p2w... Probably along the same time grouping up with 30 guildies was not considered Zerging cause it was organized.

About the same time that xp became directly linked to character power.

WAY moreso than gear in this game. The best endgame sets don't even come close to touching what a good number of CP can net you in terms of character strength.

Putting unobtainable gear on the Crown store would actually be LESS P2W than XP potions if they grant 50% more CP as well.

You do realize that everyone can gain xp right? Putting unobtainable gear on the crown store would be pay to win because the only way you could get it is via paying money for it. Xp pots just increase the speed of which I do something in game. Hell by your standards if I was to setup a second account to run with me 24/7 that's be pay to win because I'm getting xp faster via grouping, sure you could group as well but since I have a dedicated account for it I'll always have the advantage. Could even give it a ring of Mara for another xp boost, I could even spend more money and make them imperials which would result in more fps for stamina builds and less down time via that heal. That's more pay to win right there. *grin*

XP grants you a much higher increase in power than gear does in this game. Gear does not let you win when compared to a decent number of CP.

If unobtainable gear is P2W, then gaining an extra CP for every 2 that another player is gaining is most definitely in the realm of paying to win.

XP pots directly increase the speed that your character gains power in relation to others.

By your analogy, outright buying unobtainable gear isn't even P2W because, after all, you still have to play your character, right?

Gear doesn't let you win? You clearly didn't play when twin sisters set wasn't nerfed. Hell just equipping duroks bane set against heavy healing builds will result in a win. Hell warlock set was considered needed because of its proc and would result in wins easily. So depending on what they offered in the crown store yes, it would impact the out come of a battle and if it wasn't available in the game except via money it would be pay to win

XP potions simply increase the speed of which you obtain something that's already available in the game... You can still obtain it without spending money, it might take longer but you will eventually get to it. It's not pay to win. Pay to win would be if the only way I could gain any xp is if I buy the potion.

EQBallzz

jwboudreau1b16_ESO wrote: »

Where were all these keyboard warriors when experience boosters were announced along with the Crown Store a couple months ago? It's been a thing that most of use have realized for quite some time.

Personally, considering it's much more difficult to get CPs after Caldwell's Gold, I don't see a problem with this. You don't have to buy them if you don't want to, but you'll just level at the same pace as you usually would, as a result. For those of us who don't like the endless grind of dungeons and trials to get a single point, this will certainly be welcome. Leveling alts would be a far less tedious affair, too.

Also, keep in mind that, as Gina said, this isn't a for sure thing. The experience value could change. Who knows. Also, they could become drops, too. Everyone's jumping to conclusions, especially with this apparent lack of faith that many seem to have in the developers.

Except that the only reason it's so difficult to get a CP after Cadwell's Gold is because they nerfed the XP so much prior to releasing these pots. What is so hard to comprehend about what they are doing? Some of you act like these two concepts are just some wild and freaky coincidence. Wake up..you are about to get bilked.

Varicite

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Gear doesn't let you win? You clearly didn't play when twin sisters set wasn't nerfed. Hell just equipping duroks bane set against heavy healing builds will result in a win. Hell warlock set was considered needed because of its proc and would result in wins easily. So depending on what they offered in the crown store yes, it would impact the out come of a battle and if it wasn't available in the game except via money it would be pay to win

Having 50% more CP than someone would arguably trump the difference in having those sets vs not having them by a pretty good margin, though.

Khaldar

If people cared about or put this much effort in real life issues, cancer would have been cured years ago and the U.S. wouldn't be trillions of dollars in debt... lol...

EQBallzz

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

I remember when pay to win actually meant buying stuff off a store that couldn't be attained in game such as a suit of armor with greater stats. Not sure when xp potions became p2w... Probably along the same time grouping up with 30 guildies was not considered Zerging cause it was organized.

Maybe because this isn't a gear-centric game like other games? The best gear is easily crafted so is accessible by most. The real progression is achieved with CP so gaining XP is king so XP potions are P2W. The stats gained from the CS provide stats that is no different than "buying" gear from a store. The only difference is you are buying the means to attain them via XP potions. This is not a hard concept folks.

Xsorus

Varicite wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Gear doesn't let you win? You clearly didn't play when twin sisters set wasn't nerfed. Hell just equipping duroks bane set against heavy healing builds will result in a win. Hell warlock set was considered needed because of its proc and would result in wins easily. So depending on what they offered in the crown store yes, it would impact the out come of a battle and if it wasn't available in the game except via money it would be pay to win

Having 50% more CP than someone would arguably trump the difference in having those sets vs not having them by a pretty good margin, though.

I don't think you understand how poweful twin sisters set was. It built a stupid amount ultimate and did way more damage then you'd ever possibly get from those cp points. It went through block as well.

Just to clear things up, if you were to offer me a pre nerf twin sisters set over 250 cp points, I'd take it every damn time

Varicite

Khaldar wrote: »

If people cared about or put this much effort in real life issues, cancer would have been cured years ago and the U.S. wouldn't be trillions of dollars in debt... lol...

Hey, but we got the FCC to regulate our internet, that's a win, right? .....right?

Khaldar

Varicite wrote: »

Khaldar wrote: »

If people cared about or put this much effort in real life issues, cancer would have been cured years ago and the U.S. wouldn't be trillions of dollars in debt... lol...

Hey, but we got the FCC to regulate our internet, that's a win, right? .....right?

lol... true true

Parthrax7744

I would be perfectly fine with this.. If, It did not count towards CP.. Xp boost = CP = Power..

Crica

EQBallzz wrote: »

Crica wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Another basic concept that even a small child could understand is that money talks and *** walks.

Sure but at least be honest about it. If you don't want to put the same time and effort in and you don't feel like you should because you have disposable income and you don't care if you have something you didn't earn because integrity isn't important then at least you're honest.

they did earn it just not the same way you did - you earned it by spending your time on it, they earned it by working a real job for it

Games are supposed to have an inherently level playing field

the moment someone plays this game LONGER than you do, the field of this game is no longer level

Varicite

Crica wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Crica wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Another basic concept that even a small child could understand is that money talks and *** walks.

Sure but at least be honest about it. If you don't want to put the same time and effort in and you don't feel like you should because you have disposable income and you don't care if you have something you didn't earn because integrity isn't important then at least you're honest.

they did earn it just not the same way you did - you earned it by spending your time on it, they earned it by working a real job for it

Games are supposed to have an inherently level playing field

the moment someone plays this game LONGER than you do, the field of this game is no longer level

The field is still level, the players just aren't at that point.

What I mean is that even though 1 player may be further along than the other, both have access to the exact same rate at which they could potentially level.

It isn't a playing field entirely dictated by the size of one's wallet, in other words.

Makkir

These are invaluable to a player like me who HATES to grind. I would spend every last crown on these.
On one hand, this could help boost ppl to higher vet levels and start playing in Cyrodiil

olemanwinter

Because leveling alts in this game is so horribly brutal, I am fine with any experience boosters. The higher the better.

BUT UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD ANY BOOSTERS APPLY TO CHAMPION POINTS!