[Screenshot] 50% "Experience Booster" - ZOS, can we get a confirmation or further details?

DDuke

Crica wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Crica wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Another basic concept that even a small child could understand is that money talks and *** walks.

Sure but at least be honest about it. If you don't want to put the same time and effort in and you don't feel like you should because you have disposable income and you don't care if you have something you didn't earn because integrity isn't important then at least you're honest.

they did earn it just not the same way you did - you earned it by spending your time on it, they earned it by working a real job for it

what you do outside the game (be it playing other games or working as bartender, doesn't matter) should never hold sway in game

but they do - lifting weights outside of playing football holds sway in football, for example, and im sure you get the idea and can think of MANY more things that you do outside of a game that DOES hold sway in a game

And how many of them are paying $$$ for an advantage over others? Of course training holds sway in any hobby, don't be ridiculous.

angel59

DDuke wrote: »

Crica wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Crica wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Another basic concept that even a small child could understand is that money talks and *** walks.

Sure but at least be honest about it. If you don't want to put the same time and effort in and you don't feel like you should because you have disposable income and you don't care if you have something you didn't earn because integrity isn't important then at least you're honest.

they did earn it just not the same way you did - you earned it by spending your time on it, they earned it by working a real job for it

what you do outside the game (be it playing other games or working as bartender, doesn't matter) should never hold sway in game

but they do - lifting weights outside of playing football holds sway in football, for example, and im sure you get the idea and can think of MANY more things that you do outside of a game that DOES hold sway in a game

And how many of them are paying $$$ for an advantage over others? Of course training holds sway in any hobby, don't be ridiculous.

I can only speak to professonal hockey but many players pay specialty trainers to improve their conditioning in the off season. So yes, some will pay for an advantage. (Given the money they make it hardly dents their wallets )

Sylvyr

OK people time for a wake up call.

Corporations, especially in a competitive industry or niche, have a life of their own.

They are fed by something called profit. And they die when they don't have enough to maintain and compete with others fighting over the same resource, money.

If you all think that ZoS will try to make this game "pure" out of principle, you are sadly mistaken.

Between ZoS, their parent company ZM Inc, and sister companies, I'm sure they have a math/financial wizard that is level Vet 80. And this wizard will own you. This wizard is figuring out, with the aid of minions, alchemy, and magic devices, how to maximize profit, and is very serious at performing this task well. They might look a bit amateurish or like younger inexperienced just having fun hip nerdy gamer types breaking into the computer game dev world (as you will see on ESO Live - which style-wise is probably planned as well to be more appealing to the viewing audience) but I'm willing to bet whoever is doing the financial planning and analysis is probably very serious and experienced.

The corporation must feed, it must grow.

It's all about the numbers.

If 1000 people quit that were paying subs they are out 15,000
If another 1000 people quit that weren't paying subs they lose =0=
if 3000 pople buy $5 worth of convenience items, they are up 15,000
If 20000 people buy $5 worth of convenience items, they are up 100,000

Of course there are a lot more factors to the equation but just trying to show a simple example

And if you don't think they are doing market research -somewhere- even though it looks like they are out of touch with us at most times, you're sorely mistaken.

This game and project is a huge multimillion dollar investment. They are going to have data. They are going to have risk analysis. They are going to have multiple scenarios and statistical analysis done.

Probably the reason they don't respond to many of the threads in these forums is, while they can get a feel for some things here, from a data and quantitative perspective, it has too much "noise" to be highly valuable. They are probably getting plenty of good clean data elsewhere when they want good hard numbers.

Not to say voicing in the forums is totally invaluable... just saying, on this subject, they probably already have made a decision and unless a huge resistance comes along that threatens profits, this train will keep going down these tracks.

And as long as most people are entertained, and they have good price points to maximize profit and retain customers it will cost "us" as much as it will and what "most" are willing to put up with. The only other big factor is what the competition does and if they can make it more appealing to entertain us in a way we like for a cost we are willing to pay for for their product (could be less, could even be more).

Anyways, regarding this particularly topic. Regardless of what you think as a principled gamer or a general consumer, will they profit more by having XP potions?

Crica

DDuke wrote: »

Crica wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Crica wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Another basic concept that even a small child could understand is that money talks and *** walks.

Sure but at least be honest about it. If you don't want to put the same time and effort in and you don't feel like you should because you have disposable income and you don't care if you have something you didn't earn because integrity isn't important then at least you're honest.

they did earn it just not the same way you did - you earned it by spending your time on it, they earned it by working a real job for it

what you do outside the game (be it playing other games or working as bartender, doesn't matter) should never hold sway in game

but they do - lifting weights outside of playing football holds sway in football, for example, and im sure you get the idea and can think of MANY more things that you do outside of a game that DOES hold sway in a game

how many of them are paying $$$ for an advantage over others?

all of them who pay ppl to train them =P

DDuke

angel59 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Crica wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Crica wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Another basic concept that even a small child could understand is that money talks and *** walks.

Sure but at least be honest about it. If you don't want to put the same time and effort in and you don't feel like you should because you have disposable income and you don't care if you have something you didn't earn because integrity isn't important then at least you're honest.

they did earn it just not the same way you did - you earned it by spending your time on it, they earned it by working a real job for it

what you do outside the game (be it playing other games or working as bartender, doesn't matter) should never hold sway in game

but they do - lifting weights outside of playing football holds sway in football, for example, and im sure you get the idea and can think of MANY more things that you do outside of a game that DOES hold sway in a game

And how many of them are paying $$$ for an advantage over others? Of course training holds sway in any hobby, don't be ridiculous.

I can only speak to professonal hockey but many players pay specialty trainers to improve their conditioning in the off season. So yes, some will pay for an advantage. (Given the money they make it hardly dents their wallets )

Well, this is getting off-topic, but do you really believe the players pay for those trainers? Those trainers are part of the team, paid by the management (not the players).

And I doubt any of them had those trainers while struggling to get noticed in lower leagues.

Even in eSports, the professionals have trainers (supplied by sponsors) helping them stay in shape & focused.

But this is all something you can do on your own. Granted, it's easier with a trainer. A real convenience, not P2W (especially since you aren't the one who's paying).

billcage

Come on ZOS i cant wait for exp potions. When will you activate the potions on crown store ?.

Definitely i agree that exp potions shouldnt give CP xp.

matthiasmssb16_ESO

50% boost? is that a joke?
Very sad direction, this game takes. Reminds me so much of the way, Lotro took in the past, but with a much faster speed.

DDuke

Crica wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Crica wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Crica wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Another basic concept that even a small child could understand is that money talks and *** walks.

Sure but at least be honest about it. If you don't want to put the same time and effort in and you don't feel like you should because you have disposable income and you don't care if you have something you didn't earn because integrity isn't important then at least you're honest.

they did earn it just not the same way you did - you earned it by spending your time on it, they earned it by working a real job for it

what you do outside the game (be it playing other games or working as bartender, doesn't matter) should never hold sway in game

but they do - lifting weights outside of playing football holds sway in football, for example, and im sure you get the idea and can think of MANY more things that you do outside of a game that DOES hold sway in a game

how many of them are paying $$$ for an advantage over others?

all of them who pay ppl to train them =P

People like Cristiano Ronaldo & Lionel Messi didn't have money to pay for trainers in the beginning of their careers, yet they're considered best football players out there at the moment.

Imagine if these players had had to pay 200$ every week in some magic pills in order to compete against the other, richer kids. We'd never have seen these talented individuals, and football would arguably be in a worse place. Would that have been justice?

We're not talking about paying for a convenience such as trainers. I could right now get a trainer to help me with concentration & focus, or I can train those by myself (or get a friend to help me train).
That is not P2W, unlike gaining power 50% faster than others with no real caps or anything to hold back these Credit Card warriors.

Dazin93

Sylvyr wrote: »

OK people time for a wake up call.

Corporations, especially in a competitive industry or niche, have a life of their own.

They are fed by something called profit. And they die when they don't have enough to maintain and compete with others fighting over the same resource, money.

If you all think that ZoS will try to make this game "pure" out of principle, you are sadly mistaken.

Between ZoS, their parent company ZM Inc, and sister companies, I'm sure they have a math/financial wizard that is level Vet 80. And this wizard will own you. This wizard is figuring out, with the aid of minions, alchemy, and magic devices, how to maximize profit, and is very serious at performing this task well. They might look a bit amateurish or like younger inexperienced just having fun hip nerdy gamer types breaking into the computer game dev world (as you will see on ESO Live - which style-wise is probably planned as well to be more appealing to the viewing audience) but I'm willing to bet whoever is doing the financial planning and analysis is probably very serious and experienced.

The corporation must feed, it must grow.

It's all about the numbers.

If 1000 people quit that were paying subs they are out 15,000
If another 1000 people quit that weren't paying subs they lose =0=
if 3000 pople buy $5 worth of convenience items, they are up 15,000
If 20000 people buy $5 worth of convenience items, they are up 100,000

Of course there are a lot more factors to the equation but just trying to show a simple example

And if you don't think they are doing market research -somewhere- even though it looks like they are out of touch with us at most times, you're sorely mistaken.

This game and project is a huge multimillion dollar investment. They are going to have data. They are going to have risk analysis. They are going to have multiple scenarios and statistical analysis done.

Probably the reason they don't respond to many of the threads in these forums is, while they can get a feel for some things here, from a data and quantitative perspective, it has too much "noise" to be highly valuable. They are probably getting plenty of good clean data elsewhere when they want good hard numbers.

Not to say voicing in the forums is totally invaluable... just saying, on this subject, they probably already have made a decision and unless a huge resistance comes along that threatens profits, this train will keep going down these tracks.

And as long as most people are entertained, and they have good price points to maximize profit and retain customers it will cost "us" as much as it will and what "most" are willing to put up with. The only other big factor is what the competition does and if they can make it more appealing to entertain us in a way we like for a cost we are willing to pay for for their product (could be less, could even be more).

Anyways, regarding this particularly topic. Regardless of what you think as a principled gamer or a general consumer, will they profit more by having XP potions?

Thanks for the intelligent post as the analogies are getting out of hand. I do think they would profit more by having XP/AP potions because not only would people buy them it also might encourage more people to play if they felt the power disparity wasn't as big as it currently is for a new player.

Obviously, ESO needs to start appealing to a different demographic because it would have stayed subscription-based only if that had proven to be a successful business model for them. While I'm sure ZOS would like to keep veteran players, the long term sustainability and profitability of this game isn't going to come from us. It's going to come from new players that are attracted to whatever ESO is currently offering them.

pecheckler

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys. Matt Firor had previously mentioned in last month's Road Ahead that we would likely be adding experience boost potions to the Crown Store at some point. These types of potions follow our philosophy of only including items for convenience (and customization) in that you will spend less time to gain experience. That said, please remember that this information was datamined (that's ok!) and isn't yet available in-game, so it's not necessarily indicative of the final item that you'll see.

You don't consider the fact that a player with enough money to spend can, over the course of dozens or hundreds of hours using experience boosts, gain a significantly unfair stat advantage by earning so many additional champion points?

You folks need to look at games with similar nearly infinite progression systems that also sell experience boosts. Take Marvel Heroes for example, the PvP and endgame PvE in that game is completely and totally dominated by players who over the course of a year have played hundreds of hours using hundreds of dollars in boosts. There is such a massive character stats gap that the PvP is not even remotely balanced and players who have not dished out a lot of cash are shunned from invites to endgame content.

This is BAD and will keep your player numbers low as everyone unwilling to join the elite boost buying crowd will quit playing.

MasterWarrior

We need to have exp weekends instead of putting exp potions in the shop.

EQBallzz

Crica wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Another basic concept that even a small child could understand is that money talks and *** walks.

Sure but at least be honest about it. If you don't want to put the same time and effort in and you don't feel like you should because you have disposable income and you don't care if you have something you didn't earn because integrity isn't important then at least you're honest.

they did earn it just not the same way you did - you earned it by spending your time on it, they earned it by working a real job for it

So I guess if you are playing chess with someone it's ok if they pay money to have your queen removed from the board or maybe to get a second queen? Games are supposed to have an inherently level playing field and the ability to pay more to get more runs contrary to that. Not to mention that your analogy implies that the person spending time didn't also work a real job.

Personofsecrets

"Games are supposed to have an inherently level playing field"

>Price of equipment
>Price of practicing
>Price of travel

Whoever decided that games are supposed to have an inherently level playing field missed a few aspects of real life.

pecheckler

EQBallzz wrote: »

Crica wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Another basic concept that even a small child could understand is that money talks and *** walks.

Sure but at least be honest about it. If you don't want to put the same time and effort in and you don't feel like you should because you have disposable income and you don't care if you have something you didn't earn because integrity isn't important then at least you're honest.

they did earn it just not the same way you did - you earned it by spending your time on it, they earned it by working a real job for it

So I guess if you are playing chess with someone it's ok if they pay money to have your queen removed from the board or maybe to get a second queen? Games are supposed to have an inherently level playing field and the ability to pay more to get more runs contrary to that. Not to mention that your analogy implies that the person spending time didn't also work a real job.

THIS

Paying for any advantage whatsoever is completely unacceptable. Why do you think MoBA games are so immensely popular? As in literally 10 times as many players as all other game genres combined? Because they are like sports matches. Shooters used to be that way too, but now many of them have pay to win features. 100% fair level playing field is the ONLY way to go, no exceptions. As soon as a game company steps into the dark side, their product is ***.

Drazhar14

They promised exp gain wouldn't be affected by the switch to B2P. It would be the same game and the sub/cash shop would be a bonus. Then they nerf grinding exp by 50% and introduce a +50% exp crown shop item? Coincidence? I'm not surprised though, I'm used to ZOS going back on their word by now. And when it comes to PvP, more champion points gives you the advantage. Exp potions are very much pay to win.

amigoNUMBER1

I could see this being a bit buy to win in regards to champion points, especially if another hot grind spot ever shows up which frankly wouldn't surprise me later on (ie a new scorpion hill just discovered in wrothgar! Everyone booster up and ride the champion wave!). Maybe they only effect the 1 to vet14. Maybe they don't give as much of a bonus towards champ points. Maybe the players could make them in game with a new rare golden alchemy ingredient but it would be more convenient to buy them. This more so then anything thus far in the store could be very troublesome.

bg22

Easy solution... Only allow the XP gain to benefit leveling XP, and not Champion XP.

Everyone's happy.

RainfeatherUK

I personally find any P2W system completely insidious. Ethically its disgusting imo. Sure you need to make money - but theres a difference between a sub, or fair value cash shop, and forcing them to pay more and more exponentially by manipulating them into competitive buying. It should infact be a crime.

People are valuable. Whoever they may be, whatever their financial circumstance. Bullying people out of game because of money is what perfect world became, ZoS. You dont want to stain yourself with that believe me. A girl I knew, died under the stress of their system. Her parents found her hanging in her room.

You should listen to the people who have supported you for so long. @Deltia and others who are truly lovely people and would never post, if it didnt matter a BIG amount. They deserve better than you spitting on their work and effort with this. It needs to be changed or limited in a fair way.

Stop caving to weak willed cretins who lack the stomach to work towards anything. If I could game, as a soldier fighting abroad; respect that - because of my commitments - I wouldnt be equivalent to players who put all there life into a game instead; and that was ok. Then gosh. So can they. Earn your ends through time and effort, make the time spent actually matter. Instead of frittering it away rushing through the game people spent years designing.

People should be rewarded for dedication. Not having some burdon to society with too many hours on his hands, equipping mums credit card and exploiting the game - and thus defining the balance of it, the pvp, and/or your new champion system for everyone else.

These boosters will cripple ESO because your system is new and not ready for them. Dont be in such a rush to put controversial things into a game. Actually take a stand for the industry for once -.-

Reykice

Sylvyr wrote: »

OK people time for a wake up call.

Corporations, especially in a competitive industry or niche, have a life of their own.

They are fed by something called profit. And they die when they don't have enough to maintain and compete with others fighting over the same resource, money.

If you all think that ZoS will try to make this game "pure" out of principle, you are sadly mistaken.

Between ZoS, their parent company ZM Inc, and sister companies, I'm sure they have a math/financial wizard that is level Vet 80. And this wizard will own you. This wizard is figuring out, with the aid of minions, alchemy, and magic devices, how to maximize profit, and is very serious at performing this task well. They might look a bit amateurish or like younger inexperienced just having fun hip nerdy gamer types breaking into the computer game dev world (as you will see on ESO Live - which style-wise is probably planned as well to be more appealing to the viewing audience) but I'm willing to bet whoever is doing the financial planning and analysis is probably very serious and experienced.

The corporation must feed, it must grow.

It's all about the numbers.

If 1000 people quit that were paying subs they are out 15,000
If another 1000 people quit that weren't paying subs they lose =0=
if 3000 pople buy $5 worth of convenience items, they are up 15,000
If 20000 people buy $5 worth of convenience items, they are up 100,000

Of course there are a lot more factors to the equation but just trying to show a simple example

And if you don't think they are doing market research -somewhere- even though it looks like they are out of touch with us at most times, you're sorely mistaken.

This game and project is a huge multimillion dollar investment. They are going to have data. They are going to have risk analysis. They are going to have multiple scenarios and statistical analysis done.

Probably the reason they don't respond to many of the threads in these forums is, while they can get a feel for some things here, from a data and quantitative perspective, it has too much "noise" to be highly valuable. They are probably getting plenty of good clean data elsewhere when they want good hard numbers.

Not to say voicing in the forums is totally invaluable... just saying, on this subject, they probably already have made a decision and unless a huge resistance comes along that threatens profits, this train will keep going down these tracks.

And as long as most people are entertained, and they have good price points to maximize profit and retain customers it will cost "us" as much as it will and what "most" are willing to put up with. The only other big factor is what the competition does and if they can make it more appealing to entertain us in a way we like for a cost we are willing to pay for for their product (could be less, could even be more).

Anyways, regarding this particularly topic. Regardless of what you think as a principled gamer or a general consumer, will they profit more by having XP potions?

You are right but not totally... the public perception existing clients have about a game can make or break it... this is not some single player game you trick people to buy once via a cool trailer. This game needs constant revenue and if the forums rage/people quit over it, spread bad news, convince friends to quit and play something else with them... the wild fire spreads quickly.

Yes profit is first, but future profit is taken into consideration, selling a bunch of stuff NOW while hurting your reputation/future earnings badly is not that great for a MMO or a company that plans to stay in business. And we all know MMO players are fickle.

The one thing that can and will change their mind is how strong people feel about this, if they see an absolute no... they will adapt it somehow to ease the player concerns. If the clients(gamers) are divided... they will use it with misleading and marketing statements to spin it and fend off as much damage as they can.

Players can pretty much change this, but as with everything, they must be united... all the uninformed people saying this is not pay to win or that this is fine are not helping, most of them will just quit when the people who don`t play pay to win games leave and the community becomes toxic, but it will be too late by then to change anything and the game we know and like will be gone.

Reykice

bg22 wrote: »

Easy solution... Only allow the XP gain to benefit leveling XP, and not Champion XP.

Everyone's happy.

This would be the preferred solution, but as you can see, ZOS is not quick to adopt this move... maybe they want to ride this a bit more and see where it leads...

Personofsecrets

I too used to think that players could change the amount of dollars that a game takes to play, but never did I see that happen.

jwboudreau1b16_ESO

Where were all these keyboard warriors when experience boosters were announced along with the Crown Store a couple months ago? It's been a thing that most of use have realized for quite some time.

Personally, considering it's much more difficult to get CPs after Caldwell's Gold, I don't see a problem with this. You don't have to buy them if you don't want to, but you'll just level at the same pace as you usually would, as a result. For those of us who don't like the endless grind of dungeons and trials to get a single point, this will certainly be welcome. Leveling alts would be a far less tedious affair, too.

Also, keep in mind that, as Gina said, this isn't a for sure thing. The experience value could change. Who knows. Also, they could become drops, too. Everyone's jumping to conclusions, especially with this apparent lack of faith that many seem to have in the developers.

Attorneyatlawl

prototypefb wrote: »

one thing that would make this potion meaningless to argue against is if in Cyrodiil every1 would have same amount of CP...

In PVE there is no problem pay to advance faster, i'd agree to that, even support this.
But when it comes to PVP, this potion adds p2w element, which is unfair to rest.

Significant difference in CP will create problems, tho due to diminishing returns it's not as important as class balance(still issues with OP passive battle roar).

Those potions should be changed so players under certain amount of CP(decided by devs, reviewed/updated every month) only benefit from boost, this way newbies could 'catch up' quicker and reduce gap!!!!
but no way for top players to increase CP gap even more...

Incorrect. It's just as big an issue game wide, for this sort of pay to win existing. You know there are leader boards for pve too and a competitive scene for dps'ers, right?

eisberg

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

prototypefb wrote: »

one thing that would make this potion meaningless to argue against is if in Cyrodiil every1 would have same amount of CP...

In PVE there is no problem pay to advance faster, i'd agree to that, even support this.
But when it comes to PVP, this potion adds p2w element, which is unfair to rest.

Significant difference in CP will create problems, tho due to diminishing returns it's not as important as class balance(still issues with OP passive battle roar).

Those potions should be changed so players under certain amount of CP(decided by devs, reviewed/updated every month) only benefit from boost, this way newbies could 'catch up' quicker and reduce gap!!!!
but no way for top players to increase CP gap even more...

Incorrect. It's just as big an issue game wide, for this sort of pay to win existing. You know there are leader boards for pve too and a competitive scene for dps'ers, right?

Where are the PVE Leaderboards and the DPS Leaderboards in the game?

Ley

I don't care if people want to buy exp potions.
I don't care if people have more CP than me.
I don't care if some players are stronger than me.
I don't care because this is just a game and if I did care, I'd buy the potions and grind 24/7 or not buy them and grind 24/7.

No matter what I do, I'm not going to keep up with people who are determined to stay ahead of the curve and I'm ok with that.

If you want even playing fields, go play a first person shooter.

I have the tendency to get on the forums and argue with all the haters and complainers but I give up, it's pointless. No one is willing to accept anyone's point of view except their own and some people live to find things to complain about.

jwboudreau1b16_ESO

Ley wrote: »

I don't care if people want to buy exp potions.
I don't care if people have more CP than me.
I don't care if some players are stronger than me.
I don't care because this is just a game and if I did care, I'd buy the potions and grind 24/7 or not buy them and grind 24/7.

No matter what I do, I'm not going to keep up with people who are determined to stay ahead of the curve and I'm ok with that.

If you want even playing fields, go play a first person shooter.

I have the tendency to get on the forums and argue with all the haters and complainers but I give up, it's pointless. No one is willing to accept anyone's point of view except their own and some people live to find things to complain about.

A wise man, you are.

Varicite

If XP wasn't tied directly to character strength, none of this would even be an issue.

But it is, so it is.

Easiest and most elegant solution would just make it apply to lv1-50 xp, like has been mentioned numerous times already.

Audigy

DDuke wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Screenshot from the game. Discuss.



ZOS, can we get a confirmation or further details?

Thanks in advance.

If this isn't pay to win I don't know what is.

How is this pay to win? It offers zero advantage to players other than leveling faster. It does not give you VR15, or some other stat boost, so explain...

bg22 wrote: »

cote-bmsb16_ESO wrote: »

Damn, 50%? Well, I did spend a lot of time on my first two v14s. I'd probably use it to get my other characters up to speed. Still though, it looks like P2W.

How's it pay to win? Other than leveling you to VR14 (which everyone can do without paying), what does it do that gives you an advantage?

@bg22 here is your answer:

This is the advantage just 30 points over someone else gives you:

75-105 CPs (40%) difference:
0.3% Armour
1.3% Spell Resistance
2.1% Less Critical Strike Damage taken
0.4% Less DOT Damage taken
0.5% Less Poison, Diseaes & Magic Damage taken
0.5% Less Flame, Frost & Shock Damage taken
1.5% Stamina Recovery
-1.3% Stamina costs
+2.1% Physical Damage
+2.1% Physical Critical Strike Damage.

+12% Critical Strike chance

And it only gets worse & worse..

Lets not forget the health stamina and magicka points you get for each point you put into the tree associated with the stat :P but no, dont worry. Using xp potions to get a boost to gaining cp is not pay to win *rolls eyes*

Again... This only indicates a decrease in time in which said bonuses are obtained. They do not extend the champion point cap, or the level cap, or any other stat cap.

This is simply a shortcut to the same finish line.

If 0.5% stat difference is enough for you to bank whether you win or lose, you've larger issues than character stats.

Yes, the finish line which takes about 9 years on average to reach without using XP potions.

Oh, and here's the difference between 750 & 500 CPs (50%) in case you missed it:

• -5.3% Stamina Costs Spells/Abilities
• +4.5% Stamina Regeneration
• +5.1% more Healing Reduction
• +5.8% Light/Heavy Attack Damage
• +9% Physical Critical Strike damage
• +5.9% Armour Penetration
• +1.2% Spell Resistance
• -6.9% DoT damage taken
• -5% Poison/Disease/Magic damage taken
• -5% Flame/Frost/Shock damage taken.

• When killed, heal Allies within 8m by X
• 50% reduced Gathering times
• Better items from Treasure Chests
• 15% chance to return X damage to attacker when blocking a melee attack, 5 second cooldown

If there was an armour set only available from Cash Shop, which was that much stronger than other sets (500CPs), wouldn't you consider that P2W?

That is essentially what you're buying, and it keeps getting worse & worse (as demonstrated by the difference).

The difference between 75 & 105 alone is like you were wearing a fully legendary armour set with awesome set bonuses (+12% crit, +2,1% dmg & +2,1% crit dmg alone constituting to roughly 10% DPS increase) on top of your current one.

You mix up what P2W is like so many others here.

An item set which increases your power above those which are available in game, is P2W. It is as you can not acquire said stats with non shop gear.
The potions however are as much P2W as Rings of Mara and the Sub boost. If you consider those fine and they are fine in my opinion, then you can not classify a simple potion as P2W just because someone will level faster than you.

Really guys, those are so simple to understand things and you make such a big drama about all of this. P2W games like SWTOR, GW2 are to blame, ESO however isn't.

eisberg

Audigy wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Screenshot from the game. Discuss.



ZOS, can we get a confirmation or further details?

Thanks in advance.

If this isn't pay to win I don't know what is.

How is this pay to win? It offers zero advantage to players other than leveling faster. It does not give you VR15, or some other stat boost, so explain...

bg22 wrote: »

cote-bmsb16_ESO wrote: »

Damn, 50%? Well, I did spend a lot of time on my first two v14s. I'd probably use it to get my other characters up to speed. Still though, it looks like P2W.

How's it pay to win? Other than leveling you to VR14 (which everyone can do without paying), what does it do that gives you an advantage?

@bg22 here is your answer:

This is the advantage just 30 points over someone else gives you:

75-105 CPs (40%) difference:
0.3% Armour
1.3% Spell Resistance
2.1% Less Critical Strike Damage taken
0.4% Less DOT Damage taken
0.5% Less Poison, Diseaes & Magic Damage taken
0.5% Less Flame, Frost & Shock Damage taken
1.5% Stamina Recovery
-1.3% Stamina costs
+2.1% Physical Damage
+2.1% Physical Critical Strike Damage.

+12% Critical Strike chance

And it only gets worse & worse..

Lets not forget the health stamina and magicka points you get for each point you put into the tree associated with the stat :P but no, dont worry. Using xp potions to get a boost to gaining cp is not pay to win *rolls eyes*

Again... This only indicates a decrease in time in which said bonuses are obtained. They do not extend the champion point cap, or the level cap, or any other stat cap.

This is simply a shortcut to the same finish line.

If 0.5% stat difference is enough for you to bank whether you win or lose, you've larger issues than character stats.

Yes, the finish line which takes about 9 years on average to reach without using XP potions.

Oh, and here's the difference between 750 & 500 CPs (50%) in case you missed it:

• -5.3% Stamina Costs Spells/Abilities
• +4.5% Stamina Regeneration
• +5.1% more Healing Reduction
• +5.8% Light/Heavy Attack Damage
• +9% Physical Critical Strike damage
• +5.9% Armour Penetration
• +1.2% Spell Resistance
• -6.9% DoT damage taken
• -5% Poison/Disease/Magic damage taken
• -5% Flame/Frost/Shock damage taken.

• When killed, heal Allies within 8m by X
• 50% reduced Gathering times
• Better items from Treasure Chests
• 15% chance to return X damage to attacker when blocking a melee attack, 5 second cooldown

If there was an armour set only available from Cash Shop, which was that much stronger than other sets (500CPs), wouldn't you consider that P2W?

That is essentially what you're buying, and it keeps getting worse & worse (as demonstrated by the difference).

The difference between 75 & 105 alone is like you were wearing a fully legendary armour set with awesome set bonuses (+12% crit, +2,1% dmg & +2,1% crit dmg alone constituting to roughly 10% DPS increase) on top of your current one.

You mix up what P2W is like so many others here.

An item set which increases your power above those which are available in game, is P2W. It is as you can not acquire said stats with non shop gear.
The potions however are as much P2W as Rings of Mara and the Sub boost. If you consider those fine and they are fine in my opinion, then you can not classify a simple potion as P2W just because someone will level faster than you.

Really guys, those are so simple to understand things and you make such a big drama about all of this. P2W games like SWTOR, GW2 are to blame, ESO however isn't.

lol, I can't believe you just said that GW2 is pay to win after making an otherwise excellent point.

Varicite

Audigy wrote: »

The potions however are as much P2W as Rings of Mara and the Sub boost.

The potions are actually 5 times more P2W than the rings or actually subscribing to the game.

I don't consider that to be a "fine" amount.

/shrug