[Screenshot] 50% "Experience Booster" - ZOS, can we get a confirmation or further details?

Lionxoft

Sneak_Thief wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys. Matt Firor had previously mentioned in last month's Road Ahead that we would likely be adding experience boost potions to the Crown Store at some point. These types of potions follow our philosophy of only including items for convenience (and customization) in that you will spend less time to gain experience. That said, please remember that this information was datamined (that's ok!) and isn't yet available in-game, so it's not necessarily indicative of the final item that you'll see.

@ZOS_GinaBruno Thanks for poppin' in to the thread. Could you shed some more light on what is to be expected from these potions in regards to duration, magnitude of the boost and methods of how to obtain them?

Thanks

As she had said, they are not necessarily reflected upon the end product. So you may not know the detail until and if it arrives.

I think that's the point of asking her for further clarification. I don't think it's a bad thing to request some solid information.

Audigy

EQBallzz wrote: »

mcurley wrote: »

Well since there is so much hate about these potions I have to say that I LOVE the idea. Thank you ZOS for potentially an awesome convenience item!

Most of the complainers (who make up a very small percentage of the games population btw) already have the opportunity to play this game much much more than the vast majority of the games population who have families and jobs irl.

As an ex-hardcore gamer I can understand why you are pissed, but your reasoning is irrelevant to the much larger casual player base and hopefully to ZOS as well. How your arguement breaks down is something like this:

The people making up the v14 community are probably around 1% of the games player base. Of those 1%, lets say half use the potions and half do not. So 0.5% of the player base thinks it's unfair that 0.5% will have more CP than they do in the long run. Do you see how trivial this sounds from a buisness standpoint?

TLDR: Most of the people using these pots will be doing so to get to v14 faster, not to grind CP.

So you love the idea that ZOS nerfs current XP gains into the ground and then introduces XP potions for cash when they clearly said numerous times that TU would be the same game as before and the 10% boost to XP would be on top of the existing game structure? That was total lie. Everyone knows that XP has been nerfed into the ground and now we are supposed to pay cash to get it back? You must be some kind of masochist to love being taken advantage of like this.

Also, if you think people aren't going to use these pots to grind CP and put you even farther behind than you are now then I have a bridge for sale you might be interested in.

You don't understand what p2w is.

P2W is a term used to describe if someone is able to gain something, that the other player can not have unless he also pays real money.. If you have bank or char slots like at GW2, SWTOR then this is a p2w situation, as someone not investing money can not have these.

If someone now buys a potion at ESO or grinds mobs, then he is maybe morally a "nuisance", maybe he is even playing the game wrong, but its nothing you cant do yourself. XP is not limited to paying real money, you will level just fine without paying, its only slower.

I hope I could be of assistance, helping you to understand what P2W in online gaming is.

Attorneyatlawl

PKMN12 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys. Matt Firor had previously mentioned in last month's Road Ahead that we would likely be adding experience boost potions to the Crown Store at some point. These types of potions follow our philosophy of only including items for convenience (and customization) in that you will spend less time to gain experience. That said, please remember that this information was datamined (that's ok!) and isn't yet available in-game, so it's not necessarily indicative of the final item that you'll see.

It is NOT just for convenience though, thanks to the champion system, you are adding endgame progression, stats, ans passives to the crown store. Someone who buys those poisons is going to be 100% superior to someone who does not.

That is NOT convenience, if all the posts here that are against it should tell you, the devs do this, and this game goes back to be considered a joke by pretty much everyone.

there is only 3 things that yo can say that will stop this game from being a joke with these potions:

1. The potions will only be 10% or so
2. The potions can be bought with gold at a reasonable price or be gotten in some other way in-game without cash.
3. they will NOT effect the champion system at all

Another idea I've seen is making them have a 2-3 day re-use timer, which even then I wouldn't be a fan of due to how big the XP rate boost is at 50%, but would be more tolerable. With the champion system being the long-term progression system for the game along with gear you earn in the process, being able to pay up and get a 60% boost to how quickly you gain your champion points is just shy of the definition of "pay to win" (subscription = 10%, + 50% from the potions on the crown store). If the EXP boost potions are going to affect champion point earnings, they need to be downed to 10% or so, to be acceptable even though it would still be a poor addition to ESO.

Really, they should not affect champion levels at all. Perhaps an argument could be made for them affecting veteran ranks as those are essentially an extra standard "leveling range" set going along character quests/etc. as a time-saver (of course, when you're saving dozen(s) of hours that you can then go do something more lucrative or rewarding in-game, that's still paying for a gameplay advantage in a less direct way)... but having them affect the game's major progression system is a killer. Imagine the uproar in DAOC or WAR if Mythic had tried to sell 50% Realm Point gain potions... given that champion xp ("Realm Points" functionally) is earned in Cyrodiil AvA here alongside the "bounty points" (ap in ESO), that's exactly what's being proposed. It is outright not acceptable to the playerbase at large.

Vahrokh

Darklord_Tiberius wrote: »

What you people do not understand is that these "Experience boosters" put you back to pre 1.6 experience. Killing a monster now awards 150ish xp when it use to award 300-400 experience. Its pathetic that they nerfed XP gains so us players are forced to buy their "XP boosters" or subscribe to get the same XP as before 1.6. Dirty ZOS.

Hey, a Wall Street shark would tell you: "nothing personal, it's business".

Looks like we don't even need to go to Wall Street now.

nicholaspingasb16_ESO

Audigy wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

mcurley wrote: »

Well since there is so much hate about these potions I have to say that I LOVE the idea. Thank you ZOS for potentially an awesome convenience item!

Most of the complainers (who make up a very small percentage of the games population btw) already have the opportunity to play this game much much more than the vast majority of the games population who have families and jobs irl.

As an ex-hardcore gamer I can understand why you are pissed, but your reasoning is irrelevant to the much larger casual player base and hopefully to ZOS as well. How your arguement breaks down is something like this:

The people making up the v14 community are probably around 1% of the games player base. Of those 1%, lets say half use the potions and half do not. So 0.5% of the player base thinks it's unfair that 0.5% will have more CP than they do in the long run. Do you see how trivial this sounds from a buisness standpoint?

TLDR: Most of the people using these pots will be doing so to get to v14 faster, not to grind CP.

So you love the idea that ZOS nerfs current XP gains into the ground and then introduces XP potions for cash when they clearly said numerous times that TU would be the same game as before and the 10% boost to XP would be on top of the existing game structure? That was total lie. Everyone knows that XP has been nerfed into the ground and now we are supposed to pay cash to get it back? You must be some kind of masochist to love being taken advantage of like this.

Also, if you think people aren't going to use these pots to grind CP and put you even farther behind than you are now then I have a bridge for sale you might be interested in.

You don't understand what p2w is.

P2W is a term used to describe if someone is able to gain something, that the other player can not have unless he also pays real money.. If you have bank or char slots like at GW2, SWTOR then this is a p2w situation, as someone not investing money can not have these.

If someone now buys a potion at ESO or grinds mobs, then he is maybe morally a "nuisance", maybe he is even playing the game wrong, but its nothing you cant do yourself. XP is not limited to paying real money, you will level just fine without paying, its only slower.

I hope I could be of assistance, helping you to understand what P2W in online gaming is.

I consider restricting power by asking players to commit an unreasonable or unrealistic amount of time to achieve said power without spending money Pay to Win. That is exactly what will happen if ZOS slows down natural EXP gain without boosters, since the game already takes hundreds of hours to reach max level [something that is near-necessary for PVP I might add]

Rosveen

Sallington wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys. Matt Firor had previously mentioned in last month's Road Ahead that we would likely be adding experience boost potions to the Crown Store at some point. These types of potions follow our philosophy of only including items for convenience (and customization) in that you will spend less time to gain experience. That said, please remember that this information was datamined (that's ok!) and isn't yet available in-game, so it's not necessarily indicative of the final item that you'll see.

Buying gold tempers is also very convenient and saves us time we'd spend farming. When can we expect to see them in the crown store?

I'm not serious, if you couldn't tell. I'm worried.

Hexos wrote: »

Wow, everyone who is screaming P2W sounds like chicken little. The sky is not falling people.
Time saving items are NOT P2W. They will not break the game. If you keep this mentality up then
you may as well have ZoS instil game timers on accounts so that no can play more than 4 hours a day.
Oh and also gaming conventions like "rest xp" would also be considered an unfair advantage. Let's remove that too.

You spend X hours developing your character. I spend X/2 hours but spend my hard earned money to get a boost. So what? I have a job, i worked hard for that money. If some of it saves me time(that i don't have) ingame then Yay! I promise, I won't dominate you in AvA just because i saved some time leveling.
Alos, i am supporting the company thats making new content for the game you are playing.

Chill out.


P.S. Life is P2W. Life is also not fair. Instead of bing a victim, try accpeting it and becoming a winner.

/dropmic

You're an enabler.

You missed the part when I said I wasn't serious - just pointing out how unclear this "convenience" policy is. Or maybe I worded it poorly, it's quite likely actually. I'm 100% against XP potions this strong.

Darkonflare15

Data mine a 50% xp pot but this not 100% truly in a game. People get outrage on such a figment. I guess people seem to forget that ZOS changes things fast. This 50% xp pot is not going to be in final build anyways. No point in getting mad over. This debate of over pay 2 win is just dumb since you can earn gold in game and pay people to have items handed to you for you to win. Just because money is earn inside game or outside game is going to be pay 2 win since you did not earn items by finding it yourself you let others do it for you. Also this term is just miss use Pay2win when most state it, is Pay to improve not necessary win but maybe win for a couple battles. These same people who exploited cp because they can probably are all complaining about pay2win when they were playing by taking advantage over others too me this much worst than pay2win.

Flynch

Come on guys - it's getting a bit daft now.

Anyone who bought the Imperial edition already had a much greater advantage than these pots will ever offer, and that was a year ago.

Vahrokh

Audigy wrote: »

You don't understand what p2w is.

P2W is a term used to describe if someone is able to gain something, that the other player can not have unless he also pays real money.. If you have bank or char slots like at GW2, SWTOR then this is a p2w situation, as someone not investing money can not have these.

If someone now buys a potion at ESO or grinds mobs, then he is maybe morally a "nuisance", maybe he is even playing the game wrong, but its nothing you cant do yourself. XP is not limited to paying real money, you will level just fine without paying, its only slower.

I hope I could be of assistance, helping you to understand what P2W in online gaming is.

I guess there are different meanings of P2W, it'd be a nice experiment to create a poll about it.

In fact I am quite ready to bet on people straight telling you they don't care if somebody else gets 10 more bank slots (something everybody can do if the "unlock item" becomes trade-able on the stores).
On the contrary, I am quite convinced people shall scream P2W when they get steamrolled by a guy wearing Gold Epic Armor Of Cash or by a guy who gained competitive advantage months in advance (when nobody else could do it unless spending money).

Vahrokh

Actually, succesful F2P MMOs have implemented a so simple thing.

As I mention above, if the store items become trade-able on the regular player stores, then anyone can get them. They "just" have to make the gold to buy them.

This shall entice gold farmers getting back of course, but I have noticed other companies whose bottom line was at stake due to this, they neutered any sorts of gold farmers very fast, very hard.

PKMN12

Audigy wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

mcurley wrote: »

Well since there is so much hate about these potions I have to say that I LOVE the idea. Thank you ZOS for potentially an awesome convenience item!

Most of the complainers (who make up a very small percentage of the games population btw) already have the opportunity to play this game much much more than the vast majority of the games population who have families and jobs irl.

As an ex-hardcore gamer I can understand why you are pissed, but your reasoning is irrelevant to the much larger casual player base and hopefully to ZOS as well. How your arguement breaks down is something like this:

The people making up the v14 community are probably around 1% of the games player base. Of those 1%, lets say half use the potions and half do not. So 0.5% of the player base thinks it's unfair that 0.5% will have more CP than they do in the long run. Do you see how trivial this sounds from a buisness standpoint?

TLDR: Most of the people using these pots will be doing so to get to v14 faster, not to grind CP.

So you love the idea that ZOS nerfs current XP gains into the ground and then introduces XP potions for cash when they clearly said numerous times that TU would be the same game as before and the 10% boost to XP would be on top of the existing game structure? That was total lie. Everyone knows that XP has been nerfed into the ground and now we are supposed to pay cash to get it back? You must be some kind of masochist to love being taken advantage of like this.

Also, if you think people aren't going to use these pots to grind CP and put you even farther behind than you are now then I have a bridge for sale you might be interested in.

You don't understand what p2w is.

P2W is a term used to describe if someone is able to gain something, that the other player can not have unless he also pays real money.. If you have bank or char slots like at GW2, SWTOR then this is a p2w situation, as someone not investing money can not have these.

If someone now buys a potion at ESO or grinds mobs, then he is maybe morally a "nuisance", maybe he is even playing the game wrong, but its nothing you cant do yourself. XP is not limited to paying real money, you will level just fine without paying, its only slower.

I hope I could be of assistance, helping you to understand what P2W in online gaming is.

You......have no idea what Pay to win means, do you? How is having another character giving you an advantage compared to another person?

on the other hand, giving palyers the ability to be better than anyone who does not use these potions IS P2W because it makes them more powerful then they are.

Zyle

It seems people are having a hard time understanding the definition of P2W. Paying "2" Win simply means that the person with more real cash has an automatic advantage on the person who has less real cash. That results in an unfair advantage, simply because the person who has less real cash cannot "play harder" or "play longer" to make up that difference.

P2W does NOT mean that the item/xp/whatever is not achievable without paying real cash. That is the difference between it being cash shop exclusive or not. I hope this clears some things up.

Flynch

Vahrokh wrote: »

Actually, succesful F2P MMOs have implemented a so simple thing.

As I mention above, if the store items become trade-able on the regular player stores, then anyone can get them. They "just" have to make the gold to buy them.

This shall entice gold farmers getting back of course, but I have noticed other companies whose bottom line was at stake due to this, they neutered any sorts of gold farmers very fast, very hard.

Or alternatively them can have them as rare drops in-game and they can dodge the gold-sellers entirely - it's up to the player to spend time grinding XP or grinding for a pot to allow an increase in XP grinding later!

nicholaspingasb16_ESO

Vahrokh wrote: »

Actually, succesful F2P MMOs have implemented a so simple thing.

As I mention above, if the store items become trade-able on the regular player stores, then anyone can get them. They "just" have to make the gold to buy them.

This shall entice gold farmers getting back of course, but I have noticed other companies whose bottom line was at stake due to this, they neutered any sorts of gold farmers very fast, very hard.

The only other truly successful F2P MMO with EXP boosts was SWTOR, and after level 20 they were outright required because the game cut your EXP gains IN HALF after that point. The same thing will happen here. It's a slippery slope.

PKMN12

nicholaspingasb16_ESO wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Actually, succesful F2P MMOs have implemented a so simple thing.

As I mention above, if the store items become trade-able on the regular player stores, then anyone can get them. They "just" have to make the gold to buy them.

This shall entice gold farmers getting back of course, but I have noticed other companies whose bottom line was at stake due to this, they neutered any sorts of gold farmers very fast, very hard.

The only other truly successful F2P MMO with EXP boosts was SWTOR, and after level 20 they were outright required because the game cut your EXP gains IN HALF after that point. The same thing will happen here. It's a slippery slope.

SWtor also forced you to pay to use ANY endgame gear at all.

Ace_SiN

Audigy wrote: »

You don't understand what p2w is.

P2W is a term used to describe if someone is able to gain something, that the other player can not have unless he also pays real money.. If you have bank or char slots like at GW2, SWTOR then this is a p2w situation, as someone not investing money can not have these.

If someone now buys a potion at ESO or grinds mobs, then he is maybe morally a "nuisance", maybe he is even playing the game wrong, but its nothing you cant do yourself. XP is not limited to paying real money, you will level just fine without paying, its only slower.

I hope I could be of assistance, helping you to understand what P2W in online gaming is.

You have one of the worst views of P2W I've ever seen. Bank or Char slots in GW2 would not give you any power over someone else. By your definition ArcheAge is not a P2W game, which couldn't be any further from the truth. P2W is simple, but it's complex as well. No cash shop is created equal. It really depends on the game systems in place. That's what decides what is p2w.

Generally speaking, any gains in power over non paying customers, through the cash shop, is P2W(obviously this is not including buying a DLC pack and gaining access to later content, for example). This can happen directly(ex. buy competitively better gear) or indirectly(ex. get a massive amount of gold to buy competitively better gear).What matters is not just the power gained, but how long it takes before a non paying customer can catch up and be competitive against the "whale". In almost any other game a XP pot would NOT be considered P2W or it would at least be acceptable p2w. However, in ESO xp boosts give faster access to power not easily reached otherwise. We're not talking about a week or so of convenience before non-payers catch up and be on equal footing either. We're talking months to a year head start, if abused accordingly. There's no doubt that these pots would be used for CP and if you've tried the PTS you should know how strong CP can make you.

Reykice

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys. Matt Firor had previously mentioned in last month's Road Ahead that we would likely be adding experience boost potions to the Crown Store at some point. These types of potions follow our philosophy of only including items for convenience (and customization) in that you will spend less time to gain experience. That said, please remember that this information was datamined (that's ok!) and isn't yet available in-game, so it's not necessarily indicative of the final item that you'll see.

Nice way to say something without touching on the actual problem...

The problem with your "convenience" XP potions is that, due to the Champion System, they are essentially adding Power not convenience.

You know it, we know it... your move now. If you add them and they affect the Champion Points gain you essentially made ESO a Pay to Win game. You could have cleared this now but it looks like you are waiting for the right time to introduce them.

nimander99

EXP boost pots are not p2w they are convenience items for people who don't have 6 hours a day to play ESO. Time can have price on it.

Sallington

Reykice wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys. Matt Firor had previously mentioned in last month's Road Ahead that we would likely be adding experience boost potions to the Crown Store at some point. These types of potions follow our philosophy of only including items for convenience (and customization) in that you will spend less time to gain experience. That said, please remember that this information was datamined (that's ok!) and isn't yet available in-game, so it's not necessarily indicative of the final item that you'll see.

Nice way to say something without touching on the actual problem...

The problem with your "convenience" XP potions is that, due to the Champion System, they are essentially adding Power not convenience.

You know it, we know it... your move now. If you add them and they affect the Champion Points gain you essentially made ESO a Pay to Win game. You could have cleared this now but it looks like you are waiting for the right time to introduce them.

Yup, no Champion system, no problem in my opinion.

But, something tells me this is what they had in mind the entire time. There's no way a grind that gigantic was developed without the expectation to sell XP boosts.

Zershar_Vemod

nimander99 wrote: »

EXP boost pots are not p2w they are convenience items for people who don't have 6 hours a day to play ESO. Time can have price on it.

Please, tell us on how someone leveling faster than another player doesn't give any advantages whatsoever.

Ace_SiN

nimander99 wrote: »

EXP boost pots are not p2w they are convenience items for people who don't have 6 hours a day to play ESO. Time can have price on it.

And you think a 50% xp pot would help you keep up? Lmao

Gorthax

nimander99 wrote: »

EXP boost pots are not p2w they are convenience items for people who don't have 6 hours a day to play ESO. Time can have price on it.

now what about the people playing 12+ hours a day using them?? @nimander99 it is essentially paytowin for those 12+ hour people (the no lifers as some people call them I think).

Reykice

nimander99 wrote: »

EXP boost pots are not p2w they are convenience items for people who don't have 6 hours a day to play ESO. Time can have price on it.

The game has a Champion System... your convenience items, in ESO, will have the effect of a faster endgame progression.

Now you tell us what that means, if you can buy a faster ENDGAME progression in the shop. Its pure Pay to Win. They may try to sell it as something else, but it is what it is.

Nobody is saying they can`t have normal XP potions, IF they don`t affect the Champion System.

We will see how hungry they are for money when they add it... a lot will leave if they make the move to Pay to Win and many potential new players will learn of the game`s direction and won`t come to play. Same as with most Pay to Win games.

Ace_SiN

Gorthax wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

EXP boost pots are not p2w they are convenience items for people who don't have 6 hours a day to play ESO. Time can have price on it.

now what about the people playing 12+ hours a day using them?? @nimander99 it is essentially paytowin for those 12+ hour people (the no lifers as some people call them I think).

Yup, I'm one of those "no lifers". I don't need to leave home to be at work. I can guarantee you these pots would only make it worst for casuals as I rack up 70% more xp for cp.

Frenkthevile

50% is damn too much!

Craven_Killmore

What do you win exactly? faster cp gain for 2-5$ a potion? how does that make you win? If I pay for a meal at a restaurant and there are other people with me but they don't want to pay, am I still winning something? or is this just life and there will always be people further ahead of you.

Vahrokh

nicholaspingasb16_ESO wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Actually, succesful F2P MMOs have implemented a so simple thing.

As I mention above, if the store items become trade-able on the regular player stores, then anyone can get them. They "just" have to make the gold to buy them.

This shall entice gold farmers getting back of course, but I have noticed other companies whose bottom line was at stake due to this, they neutered any sorts of gold farmers very fast, very hard.

The only other truly successful F2P MMO with EXP boosts was SWTOR, and after level 20 they were outright required because the game cut your EXP gains IN HALF after that point. The same thing will happen here. It's a slippery slope.

Not true.

When I paid sub, unlike in ESO, my characters would vastly get more XP than needed to level up.
When I'd get to the level 35 area my characters were already level 50! A less completionist guy skipping the 4 men instances (that unlike in ESO, you DO find people to run - only the bouns content 4 men are a pain) would still be level 44 or so.

When I stopped paying my characters would REALLY require to do the full whole content to keep up... but they kept up.

When I stopped paying I could still buy the "unlock" item to use epic gear of set XYZ. Actually, paying sub once you could unlock all gear forever even when going free mode.
Same for 8 men and PvP access.
The only, real, UTTER pain was the bank $$$ cap. Could expand it with an item as well but imo that item was too rare and gave just more 100k money allowance if I recall correctly. Not a full unlock.

DDuke

Let's not forget that this is coming at a time when ESO needs a better reputation.

In a few months, the game will launch on consoles.


Zenimax Online Studios, do you want your game to have the reputation of "just another P2W cash grab", or that of an AAA MMO?

I can tell you where the former leads: it leads to the game losing the respect of the gamers, which in turn leads to less long term and short term customers.

You are shooting yourselves on the foot by these decisions, if you believe this will lead to positive revenue, and the loss of consumer trust may carry on to your parent company's other products.

Dazin93

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

I don't care if someone get's ahead because of hard work and dedication. I do take exception to someone who is more powerful simply because they spent more money. Do you honestly not see the distinction?

You must take exception to quite a few people then as most government officials, successful businessmen, and corporations are powerful due to their spending power and influence. Also, most of them work hard or had success in some fashion or else where does the money come from?

This entire thread basically boils down to a debate about time vs. money. Those against XP/AP boosts feel that they deserve more powerful characters due to the time they invested in the game and those for the boosts, such as myself, would rather invest more money and less time into the game as we find our time more valuable.

Speaking directly for myself, I would love to be able to use boosters in PvP as it would allow me to continue progressing my character while doing something I actually enjoy, as opposed to PvE. I don't care if there is somebody stronger or more advantaged than me. There always is, and it's about my game experience not somebody else's.

Statements like " it should only be about skill" are always bandied about and the fact is it is always about skill, especially in PvP. Grinding PvE mobs for hours on end isn't a reflection of skill and neither is your gear or amount of CP's. True skill will always win out when the rubber meets the road.

Flynch

Ace_SiN wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

EXP boost pots are not p2w they are convenience items for people who don't have 6 hours a day to play ESO. Time can have price on it.

now what about the people playing 12+ hours a day using them?? @nimander99 it is essentially paytowin for those 12+ hour people (the no lifers as some people call them I think).

Yup, I'm one of those "no lifers". I don't need to leave home to be at work. I can guarantee you these pots would only make it worst for casuals as I rack up 70% more xp for cp.

I don't think 'casuals' will be that bothered though - this all seems to be a scrap between the 'competitive niche' of the game, who are comparing wallets more than anything else, because they care more about champion points.