[Screenshot] 50% "Experience Booster" - ZOS, can we get a confirmation or further details?

nicholaspingasb16_ESO

nimander99 wrote: »

EXP boost pots are not p2w they are convenience items for people who don't have 6 hours a day to play ESO. Time can have price on it.

It's a video game, it shouldn't be designed to be as grindy and long as possible to make us buy things.

Darkonflare15

Pay 2 win is a subjective term that changes depending on the view of each person because of this is hard to take anybody definition with 100% truth since your view and their view are going to be different. So the forum is going splited up into the people who can actually see the good in this from the people who can see the bad in this but the problem it self is not the item but how people are going to exploited this which is something that we cannot stop. Since people are going to exploit with this or with out this. This is the only truth we can see about this topic.

nimander99

Ace_SiN wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

EXP boost pots are not p2w they are convenience items for people who don't have 6 hours a day to play ESO. Time can have price on it.

now what about the people playing 12+ hours a day using them?? @nimander99 it is essentially paytowin for those 12+ hour people (the no lifers as some people call them I think).

Yup, I'm one of those "no lifers". I don't need to leave home to be at work. I can guarantee you these pots would only make it worst for casuals as I rack up 70% more xp for cp.

There is nothing you I or anyone can do about people who play the game all day long. No matter what they will always be ahead of the curve, I suggest you do what I do which is just accept the fact that there will always be people with more time to dedicate to the game and be way more powerful.

I believe it is more worth it to have the exp boost in game for casuals than to not have that option because of the few people who will dump cash into it to grind out every champ point.

Flynch

nicholaspingasb16_ESO wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

EXP boost pots are not p2w they are convenience items for people who don't have 6 hours a day to play ESO. Time can have price on it.

It's a video game, it shouldn't be designed to be as grindy and long as possible to make us buy things.

Anyone with more time than someone else will have this 'advantage' no matter how long or short the time-to-cap is, if we are using time as an advantageous competitive currency.

Ace_SiN

Craven_Killmore wrote: »

What do you win exactly? faster cp gain for 2-5$ a potion? how does that make you win? If I pay for a meal at a restaurant and there are other people with me but they don't want to pay, am I still winning something? or is this just life and there will always be people further ahead of you.

It's not just about being ahead. It how long it will take others to catch up. Are you aware of how long of a grind champion points are at the default xp rates? Are you aware of how much power you gain from the champion system? CP is not optional. If you're sticking with this game then they are a requirement to remain competitive. Maybe for PvE it doesn't matter so much if most are still way behind in cp, but in PvP this would be a game changer for us grinders.

I'm cool with it though. They can add these pots. I'll benefit greatly from it.

ItsGlaive

So I guess based on the response ZOS have given so far on this our choices are:

- Being forced into buying these if we want any chance at all of keeping up at end game with the whales.
- Giving up on end game altogether.
- Finding an mmo that don't sell P2W items.

It's a shame. I dropped Archeage like a stone when they started doing this. I came back to ESO based on it being a sub game, based on my confidence that they'd never pull this crap. Look where we are now...

Ace_SiN

nimander99 wrote: »

There is nothing you I or anyone can do about people who play the game all day long. No matter what they will always be ahead of the curve, I suggest you do what I do which is just accept the fact that there will always be people with more time to dedicate to the game and be way more powerful.

I believe it is more worth it to have the exp boost in game for casuals than to not have that option because of the few people who will dump cash into it to grind out every champ point.

Honestly the biggest impact of these pots is the length of time it will take for casuals to catch up, not that us grinders will be ahead(we will always be ahead until we hit the wall). They NERFED the XP rates to SELL them back to the customers. They effectively made it harder for the casual that can't afford to( or simply doesn't want to) keep throwing money at xp pots every login session, despite already paying full price for the game.

Craven_Killmore

They nerfed xp across the board in order to sell these, they can unnerf the exp and remove them and it would be the same situation except zos wouldn't make a cent.

The point of cash shops is to generate money, and what better way than to sell xp potions.

If you don't like it you don't have to buy them, if you worried about people having 100 cp more than you because they played 100 more hours than you, too bad, they put in the work and you didn't.

Xp is food, food costs money, hungry? then work.

Drazhar14

Oh, now I see why they nerfed grinding exp. So we can buy it back. Tsk tsk!

mcurley

EQBallzz wrote: »

mcurley wrote: »

Well since there is so much hate about these potions I have to say that I LOVE the idea. Thank you ZOS for potentially an awesome convenience item!

Most of the complainers (who make up a very small percentage of the games population btw) already have the opportunity to play this game much much more than the vast majority of the games population who have families and jobs irl.

As an ex-hardcore gamer I can understand why you are pissed, but your reasoning is irrelevant to the much larger casual player base and hopefully to ZOS as well. How your arguement breaks down is something like this:

The people making up the v14 community are probably around 1% of the games player base. Of those 1%, lets say half use the potions and half do not. So 0.5% of the player base thinks it's unfair that 0.5% will have more CP than they do in the long run. Do you see how trivial this sounds from a buisness standpoint?

TLDR: Most of the people using these pots will be doing so to get to v14 faster, not to grind CP.

So you love the idea that ZOS nerfs current XP gains into the ground and then introduces XP potions for cash when they clearly said numerous times that TU would be the same game as before and the 10% boost to XP would be on top of the existing game structure? That was total lie. Everyone knows that XP has been nerfed into the ground and now we are supposed to pay cash to get it back? You must be some kind of masochist to love being taken advantage of like this.

Also, if you think people aren't going to use these pots to grind CP and put you even farther behind than you are now then I have a bridge for sale you might be interested in.

I know for a fact that people will use these potions to grind CP. My point was that the number of people using them to grind CP will be far less than the number of people using them for non-CP related experience.

And yes. I love that ZOS nerfed experience gains "into the ground" then added the potions. That is what you call a smart business decision. Pissing off 0.5% of your customer base (not a real number just using the same hypothetical numbers as I did before) to gain more income from about 50% of your customer base is absolutely worth it in every industry. Especially the gaming industry when most of the people complaining will continue to play your game regardless of the decision. As you likely will.

Sallington

mcurley wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

mcurley wrote: »

Well since there is so much hate about these potions I have to say that I LOVE the idea. Thank you ZOS for potentially an awesome convenience item!

Most of the complainers (who make up a very small percentage of the games population btw) already have the opportunity to play this game much much more than the vast majority of the games population who have families and jobs irl.

As an ex-hardcore gamer I can understand why you are pissed, but your reasoning is irrelevant to the much larger casual player base and hopefully to ZOS as well. How your arguement breaks down is something like this:

The people making up the v14 community are probably around 1% of the games player base. Of those 1%, lets say half use the potions and half do not. So 0.5% of the player base thinks it's unfair that 0.5% will have more CP than they do in the long run. Do you see how trivial this sounds from a buisness standpoint?

TLDR: Most of the people using these pots will be doing so to get to v14 faster, not to grind CP.

So you love the idea that ZOS nerfs current XP gains into the ground and then introduces XP potions for cash when they clearly said numerous times that TU would be the same game as before and the 10% boost to XP would be on top of the existing game structure? That was total lie. Everyone knows that XP has been nerfed into the ground and now we are supposed to pay cash to get it back? You must be some kind of masochist to love being taken advantage of like this.

Also, if you think people aren't going to use these pots to grind CP and put you even farther behind than you are now then I have a bridge for sale you might be interested in.

I know for a fact that people will use these potions to grind CP. My point was that the number of people using them to grind CP will be far less than the number of people using them for non-CP related experience.

And yes. I love that ZOS nerfed experience gains "into the ground" then added the potions. That is what you call a smart business decision. Pissing off 0.5% of your customer base (not a real number just using the same hypothetical numbers as I did before) to gain more income from about 50% of your customer base is absolutely worth it in every industry. Especially the gaming industry when most of the people complaining will continue to play your game regardless of the decision. As you likely will.

And this is why the number of developers I support is getting smaller and smaller. I imagine I'll eventually just revert back to playing cards and board games.

DDuke

Dazin93 wrote: »

those for the boosts, such as myself, would rather invest more money and less time into the game as we find our time more valuable.

Dazin93 wrote: »

There always is, and it's about my game experience not somebody else's.

The sheer arrogance of these statements... so basically you want to tell us how much better you are, because $$$.

Newsflash: your time isn't any more valuable than mine, or the time of the person next to me.

Learn to live with it.

Hexyl

Zos, Just separte XP for lvl and XP for CPs, like you do with inspiration but also for mob.

The problem is not these pots. It's the CPs system as it is actually -> FAR MORE TOO LONG.

Don't go Pay 2 win please.. This game is too beautiful for this.

Gorthax

i dont care if they made 500% xp pots! As long as the pots (no matter the %) does NOT affect CP gain in any way I am fine with it. Once they do add bonus xp to CP gain, then I have an issue.

Zyle

Dazin93 wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

I don't care if someone get's ahead because of hard work and dedication. I do take exception to someone who is more powerful simply because they spent more money. Do you honestly not see the distinction?

You must take exception to quite a few people then as most government officials, successful businessmen, and corporations are powerful due to their spending power and influence. Also, most of them work hard or had success in some fashion or else where does the money come from?

This entire thread basically boils down to a debate about time vs. money. Those against XP/AP boosts feel that they deserve more powerful characters due to the time they invested in the game and those for the boosts, such as myself, would rather invest more money and less time into the game as we find our time more valuable.

Speaking directly for myself, I would love to be able to use boosters in PvP as it would allow me to continue progressing my character while doing something I actually enjoy, as opposed to PvE. I don't care if there is somebody stronger or more advantaged than me. There always is, and it's about my game experience not somebody else's.

Statements like " it should only be about skill" are always bandied about and the fact is it is always about skill, especially in PvP. Grinding PvE mobs for hours on end isn't a reflection of skill and neither is your gear or amount of CP's. True skill will always win out when the rubber meets the road.

I see your point, to an extent. Something I would like to point out is the incoming PvP XP buff. They are buffing PvP kill XP by 50%, making it worth peoples time, and the PvP'rs don't feel that they should be grinding CP's to keep up 24/7 (could be wrong on this). Grinding PvE mobs isn't something I choose to do, it's the only alternative really outside of dailies. There hasn't been a content update in forever, they just reduced XP for high level vets, and introduced the Champion Point system. It's almost like they are saying: We don't like grinding, but we introduced this insanely long progression system for you guys that requires you to...grind..and grind even harder than before because we nerfed your XP .

I wouldn't exactly say people against XP boost feel that they deserve more powerful characters due to the time they invested in the game. I do see what you're getting at, I more or less think it's a mentality of "Okay so I just spent this long being a loyal customer...I survived B2P/Cash shop launch so far...okay now the rich kid can possibly 50% XP boosts constantly because I don't make as much as he does." This is speculation of course, as we don't know the final details.

I feel it comes down timing. We were just paying a sub, where everyone had equal opportunity to progress in game. It didn't matter how much money you made, as long as you could at max afford $15/mo. We JUST switched to B2P, a very touchy transition. Now, people are adding up pieces to the puzzle (whether or not they are correct). Reduced XP gain --> Champion System --> Crown Store/B2P --> XP Pots --> Roundabouts same XP gain prior to nerf but now I have to pay real money?

I don't feel a time versus money argument is fair, as it has no place really in a video game. Any online game I have played, ever, has had someone who plays nonstop. It's not unfair in my eyes by any means. We each get 24 hours in a day, how is the "no-lifers" fault that you can't play as long as they can?

When XP pots come into play so soon after these changes, it's hard not to associate them with P2W. I really think ZOS should have kept mum about their XP pots until at least 1 content update and a fix to the current XP situation in PvE.

WraithAzraiel

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Streega wrote: »

How about NOOO? Geez, this B2P is getting P2W more and more every day

What's P2W? They already removed the Magicka, Health and Stamina potions from the Crown Store, because people were crying. Are you going to now try to convince others (and yourself for that matter) that repair kits and soul gems are Pay 2 Win items?

While I agree 50% may be a bit much but if they stick to the original idea that it will be available for not only Crowns but ALSO IN GAME GOLD, then who does it hurt? The people who are broke in game? Their wealth is nobody's problem but their own.

The potions are being retooled because they were not supposed to be more than player made. It's not available for gold, if it is I'd really like to see a link to where that was said. You are buying XP with these, there is no other way to look at it. Convenience means, "I don't have a lot of time to play so let me buy a repair kit so I don't have to run back to town". Convenience is not, "I don't have a lot of time to play so let me increase my XP by 50%". When you have more CP in Cyrodiil than your opponent, then you have a clear advantage. How can any reasonable person not see this?

You really think, with all the outcry the very existence of this item has garnered they're not going to make it available through means other than actual $$$$?

Before they edited the most recent Road Ahead, here: http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2015/02/12/the-road-ahead---february, it stated that XP potions would be available not only for purchase with Crowns but ALSO available for purchase with in-game gold.

Now I don't feel like digging through posts to find someone quoting the paragraph verbatim but it was there and in fact the whole bit showcasing the possibility of XP potions was canned after the forums blew up in a thread JUST LIKE THIS.

So if the complaints about this being P2W keep rolling in, the whole idea will probably be scrapped. Or they'll write off all the people who want to stomp their feet and say, "If this becomes a thing, I'm gone." as acceptable losses and drive on with their new income.

That's the only 2 ways this can go at this point.

Dazin93

DDuke wrote: »

Dazin93 wrote: »

those for the boosts, such as myself, would rather invest more money and less time into the game as we find our time more valuable.

Dazin93 wrote: »

There always is, and it's about my game experience not somebody else's.

The sheer arrogance of these statements... so basically you want to tell us how much better you are, because $$$.

Newsflash: your time isn't any more valuable than mine, or the time of the person next to me.

Learn to live with it.

At no time did I state I was better than anyone else. I merely stated what my priorities are and I prioritize my time over money as my time equates to money for me personally. If I can gain the same results and have an enjoyable experience within the game in 2 hours as opposed to four, then I have two more hours of earning potential that far exceeds the negligible cost of potions. If the cost of potions exceeds your earning potential, or you prefer to spend your time in game or grinding then more power to you, it doesn't matter to me.

For me my time is more valuable than yours or the person next to you because it's my time and my life. This isn't arrogance, its just a fact for anyone, and I don't think anyone buys a game thinking "I can't wait to play so that I can improve somebody else's game experience". Please be serious here and stop trying to tell others to play the game the way you like to play it.

Kova

You know, I love video games. My world is constantly pelting me with advertising and commercialism. I worked in retail, where I up sold materials for the company, who smiled and assured me that everything was great as my pay became less and my responsibilitis became abundant. In light of this, I was still able to get on a game with an even playing field and either Suck at it or be amazing based on my own dedication and skill. Now, even single player games are imploring me to buy more.

I know it's a business. I get that it's just how it works. I don't need to be told how the world works. I just thought we had more time before it happened. I don't want to be worked over when I'm trying to escape being worked over. I loved video games.

david.kinnaneb14_ESO

this is what happens when someone puts a corporate stooge incharge of producing a video game. Crap like this is not encouraging me to stay. In fact, my 6mo sub is renewing in the next couple of months, maybe its time to pull my financial support. Negative profits already zos! good job.

angel59

DDuke wrote: »

Dazin93 wrote: »

those for the boosts, such as myself, would rather invest more money and less time into the game as we find our time more valuable.

Dazin93 wrote: »

There always is, and it's about my game experience not somebody else's.

The sheer arrogance of these statements... so basically you want to tell us how much better you are, because $$$.

Newsflash: your time isn't any more valuable than mine, or the time of the person next to me.

Learn to live with it.

Time and money are interchangeable. If I dont have the time to get something, I will buy it. This is the reason fast food is such a success.

Your time is no more, nor less valuable than mine. You have the time to play for 12 hours a day, do it. I dont. But you believe I should be left behind because you are jealous that I can buy a different rate of progression. In the end, at the cp cap, it is skill that matters. Whether I pay my way to the cap, or grind my way to the cap, we will end up at the cap. Live with it.

I bet the exp potions will be in great demand when consoles come online. It will give them some chance to try to catch up.

AshySamurai

Brand new "Sword of Thousands Truths" is not P2W because it can be obtained by completing 1 million dungeons in super hard mode. I just save my time buying it.
/sarcasm off

PKMN12

angel59 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Dazin93 wrote: »

those for the boosts, such as myself, would rather invest more money and less time into the game as we find our time more valuable.

Dazin93 wrote: »

There always is, and it's about my game experience not somebody else's.

The sheer arrogance of these statements... so basically you want to tell us how much better you are, because $$$.

Newsflash: your time isn't any more valuable than mine, or the time of the person next to me.

Learn to live with it.

Time and money are interchangeable. If I dont have the time to get something, I will buy it. This is the reason fast food is such a success.

Your time is no more, nor less valuable than mine. You have the time to play for 12 hours a day, do it. I dont. But you believe I should be left behind because you are jealous that I can buy a different rate of progression. In the end, at the cp cap, it is skill that matters. Whether I pay my way to the cap, or grind my way to the cap, we will end up at the cap. Live with it.

I bet the exp potions will be in great demand when consoles come online. It will give them some chance to try to catch up.

yup, and those same people who are playing much more than you are ALSO using those potions, keeping the gap not only intact, but increasing the gap because not every players wants to spend money on a game calling itself B2P

luceri84b14_ESO

This is definitely pay to win, arguing against it makes no sense. Take this scenario:

Two VR14 Dragon Knights encounter one another on the battlefield.

One has been using XP potions and has 1600CP (sub bonus + 50% pots). The other has 1000CP (no bonus).
They've both put in the same amount of time and have the same amount of skill and equipment.

The player with 1600CP is playing on a significantly more powerful character. He will win this encounter more often than not. Is he not winning more because he paid money? Paid to win?

I would rather see bought gear in the crown store which you can get from playing the game. It would be less pay to win than this; once you have the gear you'll still be equals on the battlefield. With a CP system that's designed to never be completed, each XP potion is essentially selling you a small but permanent stat boost.

DogFaceInBananaPatch

Please stop talking, I'm getting spammed to death by this thread.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

These are not in the store yet. Im not too worried about them anyways. They will most likely cost a ton. I agree with someone else who said the gold ones prob will be the most expensive. They will have most likely white etc too.

Varicite

I feel like it would be very convenient if you gave that 50% xp boost to subscribers too.

Because let's face it, 50% is a bit much. I'm pretty sure that we were all expecting ~10% xp boost potions, and were totally fine w/ that.

That screenshot is kinda going off the deep end from the very beginning.

Sallington

angel59 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Dazin93 wrote: »

those for the boosts, such as myself, would rather invest more money and less time into the game as we find our time more valuable.

Dazin93 wrote: »

There always is, and it's about my game experience not somebody else's.

The sheer arrogance of these statements... so basically you want to tell us how much better you are, because $$$.

Newsflash: your time isn't any more valuable than mine, or the time of the person next to me.

Learn to live with it.

Time and money are interchangeable. If I dont have the time to get something, I will buy it. This is the reason fast food is such a success.

Your time is no more, nor less valuable than mine. You have the time to play for 12 hours a day, do it. I dont. But you believe I should be left behind because you are jealous that I can buy a different rate of progression. In the end, at the cp cap, it is skill that matters. Whether I pay my way to the cap, or grind my way to the cap, we will end up at the cap. Live with it.

I bet the exp potions will be in great demand when consoles come online. It will give them some chance to try to catch up.

You sound like a "I paid the money for a BMW so I shouldn't have to use turn signals" type of guy.

What's great about subscriptions is, we all pay the same to play the game. IF I have more time to put into it then you, then that's just the way it is. It's up to you if that $15/month is worth it.

Now we get these BS arguments about who's time or money has more value and it tears apart the community.

Gyudan

We said this would happen when they removed subs and here it is.
P2W.
Geat job ZOS.

DDuke

Dazin93 wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Dazin93 wrote: »

those for the boosts, such as myself, would rather invest more money and less time into the game as we find our time more valuable.

Dazin93 wrote: »

There always is, and it's about my game experience not somebody else's.

The sheer arrogance of these statements... so basically you want to tell us how much better you are, because $$$.

Newsflash: your time isn't any more valuable than mine, or the time of the person next to me.

Learn to live with it.

At no time did I state I was better than anyone else. I merely stated what my priorities are and I prioritize my time over money as my time equates to money for me personally. If I can gain the same results and have an enjoyable experience within the game in 2 hours as opposed to four, then I have two more hours of earning potential that far exceeds the negligible cost of potions. If the cost of potions exceeds your earning potential, or you prefer to spend your time in game or grinding then more power to you, it doesn't matter to me.

Ah sorry, maybe I confuse arrogance with self-entitlement. If you don't put in as much effort as someone else, why do you expect the same results?

This is a competitive environment.

P2W is like match fixing, "hey mr. referee, I'm a horrible player & I don't train at all, but please give the other team some red cards to compensate for that. Psst, here's some money"

Dazin93 wrote: »

For me my time is more valuable than yours or the person next to you because it's my time and my life. This isn't arrogance, its just a fact for anyone, and I don't think anyone buys a game thinking "I can't wait to play so that I can improve somebody else's game experience". Please be serious here and stop trying to tell others to play the game the way you like to play it.

It's not about improving others' game experiences (though that is a nice thing to do), it is about taking other people in to consideration because it's a MMO we're talking about, not a single player game, where it's about you & you alone.

The game won't do well if every competitive minded person leaves it due to P2W, fact.

The game won't do well, if more artificial grinds get implemented in order to extort money from you, fact.


You are essentially cheering for the lowering of game quality, just because the P2W allows you to undeservedly beat some other people, while ruining it for others.

Varicite

Dazin93 wrote: »

For me my time is more valuable than yours or the person next to you because it's my time and my life. This isn't arrogance

Yes, actually, it is.

arrogance
noun ar·ro·gance \ˈer-ə-gən(t)s, ˈa-rə-\
: an insulting way of thinking or behaving that comes from believing that you are better, smarter, or more important than other people

What you just described is the literal definition of arrogance. Just because you think that's fine doesn't change the meaning of words.