Champion System and XP Feedback

timidobserver · March 2015

~My suggestion~
-Add a generous XP bonus for killing every single enemy in a dungeon, delve, or trial.
-Increase XP for killing the final boss in a dungeon, delve, or trial.

Faugaun · March 2015

timidobserver wrote: »

~My suggestion~
-Add a generous XP bonus for killing every single enemy in a dungeon, delve, or trial.
-Increase XP for killing the final boss in a dungeon, delve, or trial.

The final boss exp cannot be buffed to high...otherwise I will stealth run to boss and skip the rest for big exp...so it would need to be low enough that its more worthwhile to kill the mobs on the way to the boss...I think the full clear bonus might help with that some and is a good idea

Faugaun · March 2015

Here's a poll for length of unused enlightenment that can be stored I just posted it so idk what people will favor...but hopefully if can help you guys to fine tune the enlightenment system.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/156734/length-of-enlightened-that-can-be-stored#latest

Crunch · March 2015

Well, if ZOS Devs make it this far into the thread and actually do read this, I guess I'll drop my humble opinion on the Champion System Progression. (Based on the assumption of VR removal in the near future, and current observations)

All in all, I like the new system. I am a little worried about the future differences in power with so many CP available, and not enough ways for a casual player to stay 'in the game'.

First off, I think Champion Points should be capped right now at 600, or some fraction of the total 3600 (figure out how many DLC you plan and divide). Please don't do daily or weekly CP caps, they won't help new players trying to catch up, and would only frustrate players who like to try and lead the pack. Next DLC or whenever you have the content to support much stronger players, go ahead and release another 600CP on us.

Doing so, you could speed up CP gains(excluding through grinding, which seems ok) without totally destroying balance. Between then and now, there should be equally viable ways for all endgame players(casuals, pvpers, grinders, dungeon maniacs, ect) to reach or get close to the max CP cap shortly before DLC release. After DLC, players with less than the first 600 could gain those CP at an accelerated rate to catch up. They could be close, if not on par with everyone else by the following DLC.

I love the idea of CP gains being tied in with pve/pvp dailies, achievements, as well xp/ap. I would like to see the system more rewarding for general gameplay and less XP centric.

Enlightenment should to do more for people that only play 8-12hrs a week vs those who play 8-12hrs a day. It should also stack up for those who take a break for weeks at a time, or those who are only on a handful of times during a month - So coming back to play catch-up isn't so daunting.

Pre-lvl 50 alts should NOT benefit from CP, mainly due to non-vet PVP, but it should also be reserved as 'endgame' progression. 1-50 leveling is already super easy, especially if you have a high lvl character for funding/crafting.

Pre-lvl 50 alts SHOULD help benefit Champion Progression of already max lvl characters. This could be done through the achievements of alts gaining CP, or XP being converted to some form of CP gain on max level characters.

Just my thoughts.
Good luck, and God speed.

EQBallzz · March 2015

I think most has been said already but I will add mine to bolster them.

-normalize CP gain across multiple activities. I don't normally PvP but that should be a viable option to earn CP. Same with other activities. Stop trying to nerf grinding and just accept that it's going to happen. What do you think people will do if they have no more quests? The only real option is to do some form of grinding. How do people work on trophy or kill achievements anyway? They have to grind. Accept this and set the XP gain for grinding to be inline with other activities so there are more options and nobody is seen erroneously as "exploiters" just because they are trying to play the game. Add in public dungeons, 4man dungeons, delvs, trials etc..these should all be viable methods to earn CP at a reasonable rate and scaled by difficulty/time investment.

-add in more activities to earn CP. I have mentioned this before as have many others but the achievement system is a perfect addition. It's already in place and it already has points associated with it. Come up with an appropriate achievement point to CP ratio and let people work on their achievements as a viable form of CP gain. Be creative with other possible options. Maybe add in harvesting as a possible CP earning activity (though it would have to be limited).

-reduce the amount of XP required for a CP. 400k is just too much. Put it in line with the conversion rate of 200k. That is much more fair and realistic. The attempt to drag everyone's progression out for years is lame and transparent and isn't winning anyone over. Better to have a few actually reach the end of the CS than for everyone to feel like it's unattainable or too boring to care about.

wraith808 · March 2015

EQBallzz wrote: »

-reduce the amount of XP required for a CP. 400k is just too much.

This I disagree with. The only thing that they did wrong was to put it out there as sort of a challenge- just like VR10 was when the game started.

The CS isn't supposed to be maxed out- it's supposed to be a customization mechanism. Just because people are taking it as something they didn't intend doesn't mean that they should just give into that inclination- but rather frame the conversation better.

Faugaun · March 2015

Crunch wrote: »

Well, if ZOS Devs make it this far into the thread and actually do read this, I guess I'll drop my humble opinion on the Champion System Progression. (Based on the assumption of VR removal in the near future, and current observations)

All in all, I like the new system. I am a little worried about the future differences in power with so many CP available, and not enough ways for a casual player to stay 'in the game'.

First off, I think Champion Points should be capped right now at 600, or some fraction of the total 3600 (figure out how many DLC you plan and divide). Please don't do daily or weekly CP caps, they won't help new players trying to catch up, and would only frustrate players who like to try and lead the pack. Next DLC or whenever you have the content to support much stronger players, go ahead and release another 600CP on us.

Doing so, you could speed up CP gains(excluding through grinding, which seems ok) without totally destroying balance. Between then and now, there should be equally viable ways for all endgame players(casuals, pvpers, grinders, dungeon maniacs, ect) to reach or get close to the max CP cap shortly before DLC release. After DLC, players with less than the first 600 could gain those CP at an accelerated rate to catch up. They could be close, if not on par with everyone else by the following DLC.

I love the idea of CP gains being tied in with pve/pvp dailies, achievements, as well xp/ap. I would like to see the system more rewarding for general gameplay and less XP centric.

Enlightenment should to do more for people that only play 8-12hrs a week vs those who play 8-12hrs a day. It should also stack up for those who take a break for weeks at a time, or those who are only on a handful of times during a month - So coming back to play catch-up isn't so daunting.

Pre-lvl 50 alts should NOT benefit from CP, mainly due to non-vet PVP, but it should also be reserved as 'endgame' progression. 1-50 leveling is already super easy, especially if you have a high lvl character for funding/crafting.

Pre-lvl 50 alts SHOULD help benefit Champion Progression of already max lvl characters. This could be done through the achievements of alts gaining CP, or XP being converted to some form of CP gain on max level characters.

Just my thoughts.
Good luck, and God speed.

Support this as a good solid plan of action that while not identical to my own solutions does solve a lot of problems in a good way.

Faugaun · March 2015

wraith808 wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

-reduce the amount of XP required for a CP. 400k is just too much.

This I disagree with. The only thing that they did wrong was to put it out there as sort of a challenge- just like VR10 was when the game started.

The CS isn't supposed to be maxed out- it's supposed to be a customization mechanism. Just because people are taking it as something they didn't intend doesn't mean that they should just give into that inclination- but rather frame the conversation better.

I like the idea of being able to reach the end eventually....if that's not zos' desire then a previous suggestion (I think in this thread) that is inline with zos' intent would be to dramatically increase the cp required exp say a million or two million or even 5 million unenlightened exp.....but increase enlightened multiplier so that 100k enlightened exp gets a cp. This allows super actives to benefit (a little) but discourages grinding our the system....that said I think a completable (eventually) system is not fun for me peraonally. Either way I will keep playing and have just as much fun though...I will just approach the game differently depending on zos' technique

f047ys3v3n · March 2015

Zheg wrote: »

Whoever was the mastermind behind these nerfs, I think their punishment should be to level a character from v1 to v14 now. Enjoy, because we don't.

Preach it brother. I'm sure they'll enjoy killing mobs in the amazingly crowded overland grind areas that contain the only full XP normal mobs now. I'll bet they will be screaming and cussing at the other folks taking their XP and ninja banning people from game in no time to keep all the mobs for themselves.

Seriously, you do not want the most productive grind spots to be public. They become vicious dens of hatred, grieving, reporting and counter reporting, and general unpleasantness. You were better off with skywatch. That was actually kind of fun. Course, better off still would be doing actual content.

Faugaun · March 2015

Zheg wrote: »

Whoever was the mastermind behind these nerfs, I think their punishment should be to level a character from v1 to v14 now. Enjoy, because we don't.

lol, I bet if we polled the player base on this 99% say yes

Edit: just make sure to twitch the whole process....I would stream it for the entertainment of the month...Heck maybe you can take the highlights from the twitch and sell to a producer to make a documentary or reality TV show on it.

EQBallzz · March 2015

wraith808 wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

-reduce the amount of XP required for a CP. 400k is just too much.

This I disagree with. The only thing that they did wrong was to put it out there as sort of a challenge- just like VR10 was when the game started.

The CS isn't supposed to be maxed out- it's supposed to be a customization mechanism. Just because people are taking it as something they didn't intend doesn't mean that they should just give into that inclination- but rather frame the conversation better.

What challenge? I may be missing something but I know of no "challenge" relating to the CS or VR10. I never said CS is supposed to be maxed out. Even if they cut the CP requirement in half and improved the CP gaining opportunities 3 fold it would take the very large majority of players a huge amount of time to get 3600 CP and most of them never would get there. I'm sure a handful of players might eventually max it out but that would be the extreme minority so who cares? That wouldn't affect anything in any measurable way. I would much rather have a super small minority actually reach the end at some point than have a system that is so punitive that it never feels like you are progressing. The whole idea of a progression system is to you know..make actual progress and the way it is now doesn't do that.

DanielMaxwell · March 2015

EQBallzz wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

-reduce the amount of XP required for a CP. 400k is just too much.

This I disagree with. The only thing that they did wrong was to put it out there as sort of a challenge- just like VR10 was when the game started.

The CS isn't supposed to be maxed out- it's supposed to be a customization mechanism. Just because people are taking it as something they didn't intend doesn't mean that they should just give into that inclination- but rather frame the conversation better.

What challenge? I may be missing something but I know of no "challenge" relating to the CS or VR10. I never said CS is supposed to be maxed out. Even if they cut the CP requirement in half and improved the CP gaining opportunities 3 fold it would take the very large majority of players a huge amount of time to get 3600 CP and most of them never would get there. I'm sure a handful of players might eventually max it out but that would be the extreme minority so who cares? That wouldn't affect anything in any measurable way. I would much rather have a super small minority actually reach the end at some point than have a system that is so punitive that it never feels like you are progressing. The whole idea of a progression system is to you know..make actual progress and the way it is now doesn't do that.

This statement is perhaps the most important one any of us have said

The whole idea of a progression system is to you know..make actual progress and the way it is now doesn't do that

Any progression system that is perceived by the majority of the player base as not providing suitable progression , or any progression , is a broken system that if left in the game can lead to a dramatic loss of players and/or be seen by potential new players as barrier to endgame content .

Why would new players want to play the game if they will be years behind existing players in progress in a system that presents itself as being a brick wall that you have to climb with your bare hands while also being signed up for a nut punching service .

mlstevens42_ESO · March 2015

I think this is a big issue. While there may be some that can fly ahead there are far more that will have a hard time getting enough in this system as it stands to feel viable. If they do not see a good way to progress with this system it becomes a reason they will not want to play at all.

If there are folks that can way outdistance them with them having no way at all to feel comparable they will not want to run in and get slaughtered. Even if the truth is not about the cp points but build or gear or just they are not so great at what ever they are trying the perception is that cp is holding them back. This would make them frustrated. Frustrated players tend to quit and find something else to do. If you want the game to succeed you can't have your player base constantly bored or frustrated.

Nerfing the exp for everything really caters more to those that have more time they will get their exp. It may be slower but they will get it anyway they have time. Those with less time though have no recourse. This would lead to being frustrated as they can not get to the activities they may wish to actually do. Most of which they feel they must have set things for, top level, good gear and decent builds which now include the things from the cs. So they would see it as an impediment to their progress.

wraith808 · March 2015

EQBallzz wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

-reduce the amount of XP required for a CP. 400k is just too much.

This I disagree with. The only thing that they did wrong was to put it out there as sort of a challenge- just like VR10 was when the game started.

The CS isn't supposed to be maxed out- it's supposed to be a customization mechanism. Just because people are taking it as something they didn't intend doesn't mean that they should just give into that inclination- but rather frame the conversation better.

What challenge? I may be missing something but I know of no "challenge" relating to the CS or VR10. I never said CS is supposed to be maxed out. Even if they cut the CP requirement in half and improved the CP gaining opportunities 3 fold it would take the very large majority of players a huge amount of time to get 3600 CP and most of them never would get there. I'm sure a handful of players might eventually max it out but that would be the extreme minority so who cares? That wouldn't affect anything in any measurable way. I would much rather have a super small minority actually reach the end at some point than have a system that is so punitive that it never feels like you are progressing. The whole idea of a progression system is to you know..make actual progress and the way it is now doesn't do that.

At the beginning, Matt Firor said that the leveling in ESO would take a long time to get through, so they weren't concerned with falling behind in content. People took it as a challenge, and finished in 7 days.

Now, they've said that the progression will not be conquered for years. People are proving that wrong by the rate that they're grinding through CPs.

Don't think. FEEEEEEEEL! It's like a finger pointing away to the moon. Do not concentrate on the finger or you will miss all of the heavenly glory!

Too many people are missing out on the game in favor of paying attention to the grind. That's why I think that it's being made more of an issue than it really is. With diminishing returns, even now, there's not that much difference between 0 CPs and the max CPs in the game currently. That's not real progression. And at a later time, sure some people will be ahead of others because of play. And there's no way to change that unless you take away the reason for progress, i.e. you stop it. I think the way that they will continue the real feeling of advancement on a more visceral level is to continue to add skill lines. When you get an incremental point? That doesn't really satisfy that craving as much as getting a new ability does.

Cogo · March 2015

The system is actually quite alright. Even better. It's a great vertical advancement with a good base on to build future character developments on.

What we need is "content" in order to get exp. Any exp. No exp "boosters" needed. Just more zones, new encounters, new pvp "content".

There is "content" in ESO to give Champion points. But is not the whole Champion system just something you develope your character on your traveles in Tamriel?

A new anything!

Champ system is great! But people wants a game to play it on!

HyperToxic · March 2015

Things I have noticed regarding XP that I'm not happy about:

lower level Veteran rank characters gain more XP and hence CP per mob than veteran V14 characters. (this is likely due to killing mobs at level).
Spending 2+ hours in Vet DSA yields about 100k XP. (this would yield about 1 CP in 8 hours)
Hel Ra and AA yield about 15k XP. Sanctum yields about 4k XP.
Solo and Group dungeons yield less XP than world mobs of the same level.
Mobs that summon give far to little XP.

Wish list:

An XP system that gives at least 1 CP per hour when playing normally.
Dungeons of all types should give competitive XP.
Trials should give far more XP then they currently award.
A balanced system across the vet levels (lower level vets should not earn more CP that higher levels)

Suntzu1414 · March 2015

PvP experience points and champion awards need redux. This is given.

You could include random engagements (Imperals Attack), against seleted keeps / outposts.
I think you should target EP, first (jk)....but, its unrealistic that the imperials would have camps in Cyro...

and just sit around all day. They are Imperials!

Greater interactivity would provide a nice bump in interest...
It will initially *** people off.. (i was runing to defend the DC keep...and the imperials attacked me).
(yeah, same with Deadra -- whom we just run past laughing now..)

PvP's are tough bunch, they will adapt.
and eventually, develop new and creative ways...to use, are friendly Imperials (Deadra).

Lets get the imperals out of the tents!!

Kill Well
ST

wraith808 · March 2015

HyperToxic wrote: »

Things I have noticed regarding XP that I'm not happy about:
lower level Veteran rank characters gain more XP and hence CP per mob than veteran V14 characters. (this is likely due to killing mobs at level).

Well, yes. If you're killing things that are lower level than you (1) you should be able to mow through them faster, and (2) they're lower level than you. That's why I'd play above my level in a lot of cases- to get more XP. Need to kill things that are your vet level to get comparable XP. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Now if comparable level mobs were giving disparate XP- that would be a different case. But they aren't as far as I've seen.

Markuseb17_ESO15 · March 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone,
We can tell you that we are planning to adjust XP that you receive from dungeons and Trials so they offer a more viable way to level and/or receive Champion Points.

That would be have ben a great idea, if only my sorcerer were still of any use. Update 1.6 killed my whole gaming experience. I only played a scorcerer and now no-one takes me into dungeons and trails anymore as the scorcerer with my skills and my vet14 legendary gear is completely useless. Thanks ZOS. I am done with this game.

EQBallzz · March 2015

wraith808 wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

-reduce the amount of XP required for a CP. 400k is just too much.

This I disagree with. The only thing that they did wrong was to put it out there as sort of a challenge- just like VR10 was when the game started.

The CS isn't supposed to be maxed out- it's supposed to be a customization mechanism. Just because people are taking it as something they didn't intend doesn't mean that they should just give into that inclination- but rather frame the conversation better.

What challenge? I may be missing something but I know of no "challenge" relating to the CS or VR10. I never said CS is supposed to be maxed out. Even if they cut the CP requirement in half and improved the CP gaining opportunities 3 fold it would take the very large majority of players a huge amount of time to get 3600 CP and most of them never would get there. I'm sure a handful of players might eventually max it out but that would be the extreme minority so who cares? That wouldn't affect anything in any measurable way. I would much rather have a super small minority actually reach the end at some point than have a system that is so punitive that it never feels like you are progressing. The whole idea of a progression system is to you know..make actual progress and the way it is now doesn't do that.

EQBallzz wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

-reduce the amount of XP required for a CP. 400k is just too much.

This I disagree with. The only thing that they did wrong was to put it out there as sort of a challenge- just like VR10 was when the game started.

The CS isn't supposed to be maxed out- it's supposed to be a customization mechanism. Just because people are taking it as something they didn't intend doesn't mean that they should just give into that inclination- but rather frame the conversation better.

What challenge? I may be missing something but I know of no "challenge" relating to the CS or VR10. I never said CS is supposed to be maxed out. Even if they cut the CP requirement in half and improved the CP gaining opportunities 3 fold it would take the very large majority of players a huge amount of time to get 3600 CP and most of them never would get there. I'm sure a handful of players might eventually max it out but that would be the extreme minority so who cares? That wouldn't affect anything in any measurable way. I would much rather have a super small minority actually reach the end at some point than have a system that is so punitive that it never feels like you are progressing. The whole idea of a progression system is to you know..make actual progress and the way it is now doesn't do that.

At the beginning, Matt Firor said that the leveling in ESO would take a long time to get through, so they weren't concerned with falling behind in content. People took it as a challenge, and finished in 7 days.

Now, they've said that the progression will not be conquered for years. People are proving that wrong by the rate that they're grinding through CPs.

Don't think. FEEEEEEEEL! It's like a finger pointing away to the moon. Do not concentrate on the finger or you will miss all of the heavenly glory!

Too many people are missing out on the game in favor of paying attention to the grind. That's why I think that it's being made more of an issue than it really is. With diminishing returns, even now, there's not that much difference between 0 CPs and the max CPs in the game currently. That's not real progression. And at a later time, sure some people will be ahead of others because of play. And there's no way to change that unless you take away the reason for progress, i.e. you stop it. I think the way that they will continue the real feeling of advancement on a more visceral level is to continue to add skill lines. When you get an incremental point? That doesn't really satisfy that craving as much as getting a new ability does.

Thanks for the clarification on the challenge comment. I see what you mean now. I don't think it matters what ZOS says..there will be people who take any progression system as a challenge because they are super competitive and will do anything in their power to advance ASAP. The thing is..the very large majority of players are not like this so it's detrimental to scale the game purely against the tiny majority of power players that will overcome whatever is put in front of them. I'm not saying they shouldn't consider them but the system now is mostly in place for them and punishes the large majority of players. There needs to be a better balance so that the majority of players have a better leveling experience that gives a sense of progression.

EQBallzz · March 2015

wraith808 wrote: »

HyperToxic wrote: »

Things I have noticed regarding XP that I'm not happy about:
lower level Veteran rank characters gain more XP and hence CP per mob than veteran V14 characters. (this is likely due to killing mobs at level).

Well, yes. If you're killing things that are lower level than you (1) you should be able to mow through them faster, and (2) they're lower level than you. That's why I'd play above my level in a lot of cases- to get more XP. Need to kill things that are your vet level to get comparable XP. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Now if comparable level mobs were giving disparate XP- that would be a different case. But they aren't as far as I've seen.

Actually that is the case. If you are V14 the only level comparable mobs are in Craglorn and those mobs give puny XP per kill. Like 240xp each. If you go to the V10 zone and kill V10 mobs they give 1250-1850xp per kill for mobs 4 levels below your level. Then head into the public dungeon of the V10 zone which has much harder mobs and each mob kill nets about 240xp and a boss with 250k hp gives 400xp. Their entire scale is completely out of whack.

Enodoc · March 2015

EQBallzz wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

HyperToxic wrote: »

Things I have noticed regarding XP that I'm not happy about:
lower level Veteran rank characters gain more XP and hence CP per mob than veteran V14 characters. (this is likely due to killing mobs at level).

Well, yes. If you're killing things that are lower level than you (1) you should be able to mow through them faster, and (2) they're lower level than you. That's why I'd play above my level in a lot of cases- to get more XP. Need to kill things that are your vet level to get comparable XP. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Now if comparable level mobs were giving disparate XP- that would be a different case. But they aren't as far as I've seen.

Actually that is the case. If you are V14 the only level comparable mobs are in Craglorn and those mobs give puny XP per kill. Like 240xp each. If you go to the V10 zone and kill V10 mobs they give 1250-1850xp per kill for mobs 4 levels below your level. Then head into the public dungeon of the V10 zone which has much harder mobs and each mob kill nets about 240xp and a boss with 250k hp gives 400xp. Their entire scale is completely out of whack.

The issue here again seems to be based on Craglorn being designed for groups. They had to reduce the XP per mob because there are more mobs per square mile, and there are more mobs per square mile because you are supposed to tackle them in groups of four. A simple-ish solution here would be to reduce mob density and increase mob XP so that overland Craglorn is considered solo content, and only the dungeons and delves are considered group content.

Xupacabra · March 2015

My enlightment just disapear after i use a wayshrine!

bug reported

EQBallzz · March 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

HyperToxic wrote: »

Things I have noticed regarding XP that I'm not happy about:
lower level Veteran rank characters gain more XP and hence CP per mob than veteran V14 characters. (this is likely due to killing mobs at level).

Well, yes. If you're killing things that are lower level than you (1) you should be able to mow through them faster, and (2) they're lower level than you. That's why I'd play above my level in a lot of cases- to get more XP. Need to kill things that are your vet level to get comparable XP. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Now if comparable level mobs were giving disparate XP- that would be a different case. But they aren't as far as I've seen.

Actually that is the case. If you are V14 the only level comparable mobs are in Craglorn and those mobs give puny XP per kill. Like 240xp each. If you go to the V10 zone and kill V10 mobs they give 1250-1850xp per kill for mobs 4 levels below your level. Then head into the public dungeon of the V10 zone which has much harder mobs and each mob kill nets about 240xp and a boss with 250k hp gives 400xp. Their entire scale is completely out of whack.

The issue here again seems to be based on Craglorn being designed for groups. They had to reduce the XP per mob because there are more mobs per square mile, and there are more mobs per square mile because you are supposed to tackle them in groups of four. A simple-ish solution here would be to reduce mob density and increase mob XP so that overland Craglorn is considered solo content, and only the dungeons and delves are considered group content.

That doesn't even make sense. If Craglorn (and public dungeons) are supposed to be group content you would assume they would give more XP per kill because they are harder but they give less per kill. Instead, you get 4 times the XP on easier mobs in the V10 zone. Yes, the mobs are more spread out in most cases but you still earn a lot more XP including the extra travel time because there is no downtime and you can pull groups together with little fear of death.

Enodoc · March 2015

EQBallzz wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

HyperToxic wrote: »

Things I have noticed regarding XP that I'm not happy about:
lower level Veteran rank characters gain more XP and hence CP per mob than veteran V14 characters. (this is likely due to killing mobs at level).

Well, yes. If you're killing things that are lower level than you (1) you should be able to mow through them faster, and (2) they're lower level than you. That's why I'd play above my level in a lot of cases- to get more XP. Need to kill things that are your vet level to get comparable XP. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Now if comparable level mobs were giving disparate XP- that would be a different case. But they aren't as far as I've seen.

Actually that is the case. If you are V14 the only level comparable mobs are in Craglorn and those mobs give puny XP per kill. Like 240xp each. If you go to the V10 zone and kill V10 mobs they give 1250-1850xp per kill for mobs 4 levels below your level. Then head into the public dungeon of the V10 zone which has much harder mobs and each mob kill nets about 240xp and a boss with 250k hp gives 400xp. Their entire scale is completely out of whack.

The issue here again seems to be based on Craglorn being designed for groups. They had to reduce the XP per mob because there are more mobs per square mile, and there are more mobs per square mile because you are supposed to tackle them in groups of four. A simple-ish solution here would be to reduce mob density and increase mob XP so that overland Craglorn is considered solo content, and only the dungeons and delves are considered group content.

That doesn't even make sense. If Craglorn (and public dungeons) are supposed to be group content you would assume they would give more XP per kill because they are harder but they give less per kill. Instead, you get 4 times the XP on easier mobs in the V10 zone. Yes, the mobs are more spread out in most cases but you still earn a lot more XP including the extra travel time because there is no downtime and you can pull groups together with little fear of death.

My reasoning is that they give less XP per kill because a single player may try to farm the mobs meant for four by themself, therefore earning 4x the XP that they "should" earn if they were "correctly" tackling them as part of a group.

wraith808 · March 2015

EQBallzz wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

HyperToxic wrote: »

Things I have noticed regarding XP that I'm not happy about:
lower level Veteran rank characters gain more XP and hence CP per mob than veteran V14 characters. (this is likely due to killing mobs at level).

Well, yes. If you're killing things that are lower level than you (1) you should be able to mow through them faster, and (2) they're lower level than you. That's why I'd play above my level in a lot of cases- to get more XP. Need to kill things that are your vet level to get comparable XP. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Now if comparable level mobs were giving disparate XP- that would be a different case. But they aren't as far as I've seen.

Actually that is the case. If you are V14 the only level comparable mobs are in Craglorn and those mobs give puny XP per kill. Like 240xp each. If you go to the V10 zone and kill V10 mobs they give 1250-1850xp per kill for mobs 4 levels below your level. Then head into the public dungeon of the V10 zone which has much harder mobs and each mob kill nets about 240xp and a boss with 250k hp gives 400xp. Their entire scale is completely out of whack.

That's not proof of what you've said. The already nerfed the mobs in the public dungeon because of bots a long time ago. They also nerfed the mobs in craglorn because of the grind. That's a totally different animal.

What I meant by disparate xp- if a VR10 was going against VR10 mobs and not getting the same thing as a VR4 against VR4 mobs... that would be disparate, especially since the leveling was smoothed out.

EQBallzz · March 2015

wraith808 wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

HyperToxic wrote: »

Things I have noticed regarding XP that I'm not happy about:
lower level Veteran rank characters gain more XP and hence CP per mob than veteran V14 characters. (this is likely due to killing mobs at level).

Well, yes. If you're killing things that are lower level than you (1) you should be able to mow through them faster, and (2) they're lower level than you. That's why I'd play above my level in a lot of cases- to get more XP. Need to kill things that are your vet level to get comparable XP. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Now if comparable level mobs were giving disparate XP- that would be a different case. But they aren't as far as I've seen.

Actually that is the case. If you are V14 the only level comparable mobs are in Craglorn and those mobs give puny XP per kill. Like 240xp each. If you go to the V10 zone and kill V10 mobs they give 1250-1850xp per kill for mobs 4 levels below your level. Then head into the public dungeon of the V10 zone which has much harder mobs and each mob kill nets about 240xp and a boss with 250k hp gives 400xp. Their entire scale is completely out of whack.

That's not proof of what you've said. The already nerfed the mobs in the public dungeon because of bots a long time ago. They also nerfed the mobs in craglorn because of the grind. That's a totally different animal.

What I meant by disparate xp- if a VR10 was going against VR10 mobs and not getting the same thing as a VR4 against VR4 mobs... that would be disparate, especially since the leveling was smoothed out.

I know what you said but my point is that a V14 has no level appropriate mobs because they have been nerfed. The leveling doesn't stop at V10. So by design there is disperate XP gain depending on what level you are.

EQBallzz · March 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

HyperToxic wrote: »

Things I have noticed regarding XP that I'm not happy about:
lower level Veteran rank characters gain more XP and hence CP per mob than veteran V14 characters. (this is likely due to killing mobs at level).

Well, yes. If you're killing things that are lower level than you (1) you should be able to mow through them faster, and (2) they're lower level than you. That's why I'd play above my level in a lot of cases- to get more XP. Need to kill things that are your vet level to get comparable XP. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Now if comparable level mobs were giving disparate XP- that would be a different case. But they aren't as far as I've seen.

Actually that is the case. If you are V14 the only level comparable mobs are in Craglorn and those mobs give puny XP per kill. Like 240xp each. If you go to the V10 zone and kill V10 mobs they give 1250-1850xp per kill for mobs 4 levels below your level. Then head into the public dungeon of the V10 zone which has much harder mobs and each mob kill nets about 240xp and a boss with 250k hp gives 400xp. Their entire scale is completely out of whack.

The issue here again seems to be based on Craglorn being designed for groups. They had to reduce the XP per mob because there are more mobs per square mile, and there are more mobs per square mile because you are supposed to tackle them in groups of four. A simple-ish solution here would be to reduce mob density and increase mob XP so that overland Craglorn is considered solo content, and only the dungeons and delves are considered group content.

That doesn't even make sense. If Craglorn (and public dungeons) are supposed to be group content you would assume they would give more XP per kill because they are harder but they give less per kill. Instead, you get 4 times the XP on easier mobs in the V10 zone. Yes, the mobs are more spread out in most cases but you still earn a lot more XP including the extra travel time because there is no downtime and you can pull groups together with little fear of death.

My reasoning is that they give less XP per kill because a single player may try to farm the mobs meant for four by themself, therefore earning 4x the XP that they "should" earn if they were "correctly" tackling them as part of a group.

That still makes no sense. If it's a group activity it needs to give group appropriate XP so it's viable for a group. You don't wreck the XP gain on it because some solo players *might* kill it solo. Even if they do it's going to be much harder and take longer and require more recovery time which should slow down a solo player and reduce the XP gain that way.

DanielMaxwell · March 2015

If a VR14 player get more XP for killing VR10 mobs then they receive for killing VR14 mobs on a single mob basis then there is a major problem in how XP is being awarded . VR14 player should always get more XP for killing a VR14 mob , they should never receive more XP for killing a VR10 mob then what they receive for killing a VR14 mob.

If the mobs are lower level then the player they should reward less XP , if the mobs are same level or higher then player they should award more XP

wraith808 · March 2015

EQBallzz wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

HyperToxic wrote: »

Things I have noticed regarding XP that I'm not happy about:
lower level Veteran rank characters gain more XP and hence CP per mob than veteran V14 characters. (this is likely due to killing mobs at level).

Well, yes. If you're killing things that are lower level than you (1) you should be able to mow through them faster, and (2) they're lower level than you. That's why I'd play above my level in a lot of cases- to get more XP. Need to kill things that are your vet level to get comparable XP. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Now if comparable level mobs were giving disparate XP- that would be a different case. But they aren't as far as I've seen.

Actually that is the case. If you are V14 the only level comparable mobs are in Craglorn and those mobs give puny XP per kill. Like 240xp each. If you go to the V10 zone and kill V10 mobs they give 1250-1850xp per kill for mobs 4 levels below your level. Then head into the public dungeon of the V10 zone which has much harder mobs and each mob kill nets about 240xp and a boss with 250k hp gives 400xp. Their entire scale is completely out of whack.

That's not proof of what you've said. The already nerfed the mobs in the public dungeon because of bots a long time ago. They also nerfed the mobs in craglorn because of the grind. That's a totally different animal.

What I meant by disparate xp- if a VR10 was going against VR10 mobs and not getting the same thing as a VR4 against VR4 mobs... that would be disparate, especially since the leveling was smoothed out.

I know what you said but my point is that a V14 has no level appropriate mobs because they have been nerfed. The leveling doesn't stop at V10. So by design there is disperate XP gain depending on what level you are.

I understand what you're saying, but what you're saying is an indication of a different problem. There are certain places where they have nerfed XP to reduce grinding. There are other VR appropriate mobs in craglorn and in the dungeons- do those give less XP than their lower VR equivalent?

Then this is an argument about the ineffectiveness of the grind nerf more than an argument about disparate XP.