XP Disparity and how ZoS can address it.

DeLindsay

TL;DR - Stop nerfing Grinding XP and actually buff other activities.

Now that 1.6 has hit Live we are finding out just how fast, and how slow Players are gaining Champion Points within various playstyles within ESO. I'm going to touch on these based on my own experience as well as multiple threads on these very forums. Also, I am one of many who gave ZoS Feedback on this issue while 1.6 was on PTS and as far as I can tell none of the suggestions were even considered. ZoS stated that a Champion Point, while Enlightened, should take an average Player 1 hour to earn so I will use 1 hour as the basis of these suggestions and a Player who's Account is Enlightened. Here are some of the current results for CP gain based on a VR14:

• Grinding: 1CP every 15-30 minutes.
  • Trash NPCs are worth ~277 XP each.
  • Standard NPCs are worth ~480 XP each.
  • "Elite" NPCs are worth ~800 each.
  • A good Player can drop 6-7 NPC's in <10 seconds for over 2K XP.
• Questing: 1CP every 1-2 hours.
  • Questing does give good XP for the most part but there's much travel time in-between actually earning XP.
• VDSA: 1CP every 1-2 hours.
  • Even shorter for good Groups, and much longer for average Players due to wipes.
• Trials/Vet Dungeons: 1CP every 1-4 hours.
  • Players are seeing everything from 25K XP (including the Gold Key quest which is 11K) to as much as 42K XP for the exact same Vet Dungeon. My Guild just ran Vet BC repeatedly with 3 of the same Players and all 3 of us got different results each run.
• PvP: 1CP once a day with 6-8 hours in Cryodiil, if you're good at earning XP in PvP.
  • Some are experiencing even worse CP gain, closer to 1 CP per 2-4 days worth of multiple hours of PvP/day.
• Legerdemain: 1CP every 2-4 days with 4-6 hours/day.
  • The only XP gain with Legerdemain is 915 XP per Safebox/Chest.
• Crafting Writs (6 daily): 1CP every 33 days based on 1 Veteran Character.
  • These give 499 XP per turn in.
• Crafting/Roleplaying/Farming: 0 CP ever.
  • ESO is one of the few MMO's that doesn't have some form of XP gain while Crafting/Farming. Roleplaying would be something new to me, XP wise.

Now lets look at how this can be fixed to actually bring all playstyles in ESO inline with each other so that Players don't feel forced to Grind for CP, considering many are done with Cadwell's Silver and Gold, don't care about leveling another Character just to do it again, would rather just PvP all day, or even just spend time Crafting and running around Farming with a little Roleplaying on the side, based on a VR14 that's Enlightened.

• Grinding: Stop nerfing it, actually restore much of it to it's previous levels.
• Questing: Increase Quest turn in XP by 10-15% across the board for all Solo Quests & 15-25% for all Group Quests.
• VDSA: Increase the XP per Trash NPC killed by 5-10% & 15-20% per Boss kill.
• Trials/Vet Dungeons:
  • Double the XP for the Coffer quest or more. It should be worth 2x what the Vet Pledge Quest is worth (after increasing it as well).
  • Increase the XP for Trash NPC's by 5-10% & 15-25% per Boss kill.
  • A full Clear of any Vet Dungeon plus turning in the Vet Pledge should be worth ~200K CP (50K XP on Enlightened).
• PvP: Double the XP gain across the board (except quests, treat them as listed above). I don't honestly know if even doubling it would be enough, but it's a start. And I don't care about Gina's report that says some Players are good at XP in Cyro, obviously the majority are not or we wouldn't have daily threads about it.
• Legerdemain: You'd still only gain 1CP every 2-4 hours but it's better than several days like it is now.
  • Increase Safebox XP to 1460, keep open World Chests at 915 XP.
  • Add XP for all Lockpicked Homes at 1460 per.
  • Keep the mechanic that if you force a lock you get no XP.
  • Pickpocketing should increase but on a sliding scale as it becomes a guaranteed success later on.
    • Hard = 1460 XP
    • Medium = 915 XP
    • Easy = 277 XP
• Crafting Writs: Increase them to 2088 each. With 8 Characters doing 6 Writs daily you'd gain 1CP per day.
• Farming: Add 277 XP per node Gathered, completely (meaning no more leaving Worms or get no XP). This would be 1CP per hour if you Gathered 1 node very 10 seconds. Realistically you'd gain 1CP every 2-4 hours.
• Crafting:
  • Refining: Add 27 XP per Refine (works out to be roughly 1CP every 1-2 hours of non stop "my fingers are bleeding" Refining/selling/Inventory mgmt/etc).
  • Crafting: Add 27 XP per Craft (about the same as above with more Inventory mini-game).
  • Research: Add 2088 XP per completed Trait Research. (wouldn't give you even 1CP but it'd still benefit Crafters).
• Roleplaying: I honestly have no idea what to add to this but ZoS should offer them something XP wise.

Once again all of my above listed values are based on a VR14 that's Enlightened (gaining CP at 4x speed). Grinding would still be king of the fast CP, Questing would still be 2nd but it'd bring other valid playstyles in ESO further inline with each other. Hopefully ZoS actually gives this a second thought this time because as it sits right now the disparity in XP gain is absurd.

*UPDATE* @ZOS_BrianWheeler has acknowledged that for the vast majority of Players XP is subpar in PvP than Grinding and is raising it (what looks to be considerably) in one of the coming patches, 2.0.2. Now we just need more Devs to follow in his footsteps to raise XP in other playstyles so those Players aren't left behind in CP.

**UPDATE 19March** @ZOS_PaulSage just announced that Trials XP is being increased as well as PvP XP. Please make sure to stop by and thank Paul Sage for his efforts. 2.0.2 added the change.

Gorthax

working as intended. Those "convenient" items i.e. XP boosters are gonna do wonders! Just need to fork out the cash for them. With that being said my response is this; YES YES YES! @ZOS_GinaBruno this thread shows the issues currently with gaining xp

HeroOfNone

I agree there needs to be more ways to earn CP exp to get the higher levels. What I'd like to see more benefits to diversifying. This may change grinding into a rotational grind, doing a dungeon, trial, pvp, quest every 30 minutes to and hour, but by diversifying your EXP rate could stack up say 10-20% per hour up to 5 times For 2-3hours. If you run the same dungeon or trial in this time t h e buff wouldn't renew, encouraging folks to explore other areas.

As for RP folks, the enlightenment by not getting exp in a bit of time helps. I think if there were a few modifiers like wearing civilian clothes, chatting in boxes, etc. That wouldn't necessarily revealed that increased the enlightenment rate or the cap, that would help

Sphinx2318

pvp should give equal cp xp to pve grinding/questing....period.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

The xp of mobs was nerfed because they were bringing in the champ system. You wont be selling many XP pots if you give people enough XP without them.

ItsRejectz

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

The xp of mobs was nerfed because they were bringing in the champ system. You wont be selling many XP pots if you give people enough XP without them.

Only craglorn mobs, mobs from your 3rd Alliance ( area with vet 5 to 10 enemies ) still give big XP.

MissBizz

I would love this idea! Last night I finally was able to play (took me 2 days to pick skills and champion points, ahha) Well, I was questing in Betnikh (VR6 zone, I'm VR7), I gained ALMOST 3/4 of a CP in 2 hours. Now, I listen to the dialogue, I get VERY distracted gathering nodes, and spend a good time trying to find the skyshards solely by the hints.

I choose to play this character this way. I imagine on my other characters where I rush through quests, have the skyshards add-on (along with destinations) I would definitely gain CP at a faster rate, as I'll end up completing many mores quests.

I think if side activities such as gathering handed out XP (even if very small) it may have helped me reach 1CP in 2 hours. Personally, it doesn't bother me to gain CP so slowly, I'm not chasing the max.

Xelphos

Looks good to me. I only run a few dungeons a day and have only made 5 CP due to the moments when I did grind. So I made 5 CP because of grinding, if I didn't grind I would probably have only made about 1.

Xendyn

Agree and then some! I'm no number cruncher but that looks well thought out. I recall ZOS saying the xp/cp gain would be approximately equal across the board so no matter how you played, you would get about the same cp rate.

Make it so ZOS!

Sumpfheini

hm I don't enjoy grinding and as someone who already completed most quests from the three factions I hope for more enjoyable "single player content" to gain XP.

Rook_Master

I wish they made Craglorn grinding viable again.

At least I would have a chance at decent gear when grinding.

Grinding V10 areas seems to be optimal now, but the gear dropped is hardly such.

DeLindsay

Gorthax wrote: »

working as intended. Those "convenient" items i.e. XP boosters are gonna do wonders! Just need to fork out the cash for them. With that being said my response is this; YES YES YES! @ZOS_GinaBruno this thread shows the issues currently with gaining xp

This is what I'm afraid is coming down the pipe, even though I plan to stay on ESO Plus and get my own 10% boost. However it still wouldn't address the disparity between XP gain of various playstyles in ESO. I may not PvP as much as many Players do but I 100% agree with them that XP gain (in regards to CP gain) should be roughly equal to PvP activities and it just isn't right now. Right now the system is skewed towards Grinding and away from nearly all other playstyles, if you have any hopes of gaining CP at a reasonable rate. I have no problem at all with Grinding being top dog in terms of speed but other aspects of the game certainly need to be brought up so they are at least competitive.

Could we at least get a "we're looking into this" @ZOS_JessicaFolsom so that Players see that comments like this and the dozens of threads complaining about this very issue are at least being considered?

Gorthax

@DeLindsay I wish they would say something. Honestly I dont see them addressing this because that 20% extra xp is gonna take care of the issues. Sadly not for those who refuse to pay a sub and refuse to buy them. 10% from subbing and 10% more from the xp pots. I honestly think that is their intentions. I wish for it to not be true, but its the elephant in the room right now.

EDIT: It reminds me of pay to win, except they are being really really REALLY sneaky about it :P the faster xp you get from subbing (dont include this but we will for argument sake) and from the xp pot stacked means you are paying money to earn CP faster than those who dont. It is walking a fine line tbh. Yet in its current form it is not pay to win. Though if you get CP faster than those who dont pay you are essentially paying to win as we all know what happens when your character gets a lot of champion points lol

Solo DSA anyone?!

Robbmrp

I for one would like to know what their definition of "Casual Player" is. I consider myself just that, casual. I work weekdays and have at most 1-3 hrs to log on and play. A lot of that time consists of crafting as I've built a pretty good client base for armor/weapon sales. So if I am lucky I have time to run 1 maybe both of the Daily Pledges. On Wednesday night, we ran the normal pledge and then went to Craglorn doing group quests there. I played for about 90 minutes of actual killing/questing time. In 90 minutes WITH enlightenment I was at 221k. So just WHAT exactly is ZOS's definition of a "Casual Player"? Do they mean "Continuous Grinder" because that seems to be more in line with 1 hr gain for CP if not sooner. I'm still subbed also so I should be getting an extra 10% XP. So what's the deal?

Hello @ZOS_GinaBruno, would you be able to answer my question above please?

Thank you for your time.

DeLindsay

Gorthax wrote: »

@DeLindsay I wish they would say something. Honestly I dont see them addressing this because that 20% extra xp is gonna take care of the issues. Sadly not for those who refuse to pay a sub and refuse to buy them. 10% from subbing and 10% more from the xp pots. I honestly think that is their intentions. I wish for it to not be true, but its the elephant in the room right now.

+20% XP gain might help PvP folks and Dungeon/Trial/Arena/Questing PvE folks but it won't even scratch the surface of the XP disparity for the rest of ESO, Legerdemain, Crafting, Farming, Roleplaying, etc. ZoS themselves on many occasions over the past 2-3 months have said they want XP gain to be relatively the same across the board, at least that's the excuse they were using for continually nerfing Grinding and the "increased XP" that 1.6 supposedly brought to PvP and Dungeons.

Gorthax

Robbmrp wrote: »

I for one would like to know what their definition of "Casual Player" is. I consider myself just that, casual. I work weekdays and have at most 1-3 hrs to log on and play. A lot of that time consists of crafting as I've built a pretty good client base for armor/weapon sales. So if I am lucky I have time to run 1 maybe both of the Daily Pledges. On Wednesday night, we ran the normal pledge and then went to Craglorn doing group quests there. I played for about 90 minutes of actual killing/questing time. In 90 minutes WITH enlightenment I was at 221k. So just WHAT exactly is ZOS's definition of a "Casual Player"? Do they mean "Continuous Grinder" because that seems to be more in line with 1 hr gain for CP if not sooner. I'm still subbed also so I should be getting an extra 10% XP. So what's the deal?

Hello @ZOS_GinaBruno, would you be able to answer my question above please?

Thank you for your time.

@Robbmrp the 10% extra xp has not activated yet. That happens on the 17th this month my good sir

Robbmrp

Gorthax wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

I for one would like to know what their definition of "Casual Player" is. I consider myself just that, casual. I work weekdays and have at most 1-3 hrs to log on and play. A lot of that time consists of crafting as I've built a pretty good client base for armor/weapon sales. So if I am lucky I have time to run 1 maybe both of the Daily Pledges. On Wednesday night, we ran the normal pledge and then went to Craglorn doing group quests there. I played for about 90 minutes of actual killing/questing time. In 90 minutes WITH enlightenment I was at 221k. So just WHAT exactly is ZOS's definition of a "Casual Player"? Do they mean "Continuous Grinder" because that seems to be more in line with 1 hr gain for CP if not sooner. I'm still subbed also so I should be getting an extra 10% XP. So what's the deal?

Hello @ZOS_GinaBruno, would you be able to answer my question above please?

Thank you for your time.

@Robbmrp the 10% extra xp has not activated yet. That happens on the 17th this month my good sir

@Gorthax, thank you for the info. I figured that was the case but wanted to see if I could get an "official" ruling on it

Gorthax

Robbmrp wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

I for one would like to know what their definition of "Casual Player" is. I consider myself just that, casual. I work weekdays and have at most 1-3 hrs to log on and play. A lot of that time consists of crafting as I've built a pretty good client base for armor/weapon sales. So if I am lucky I have time to run 1 maybe both of the Daily Pledges. On Wednesday night, we ran the normal pledge and then went to Craglorn doing group quests there. I played for about 90 minutes of actual killing/questing time. In 90 minutes WITH enlightenment I was at 221k. So just WHAT exactly is ZOS's definition of a "Casual Player"? Do they mean "Continuous Grinder" because that seems to be more in line with 1 hr gain for CP if not sooner. I'm still subbed also so I should be getting an extra 10% XP. So what's the deal?

Hello @ZOS_GinaBruno, would you be able to answer my question above please?

Thank you for your time.

@Robbmrp the 10% extra xp has not activated yet. That happens on the 17th this month my good sir

@Gorthax, thank you for the info. I figured that was the case but wanted to see if I could get an "official" ruling on it

No problem

DeLindsay wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

@DeLindsay I wish they would say something. Honestly I dont see them addressing this because that 20% extra xp is gonna take care of the issues. Sadly not for those who refuse to pay a sub and refuse to buy them. 10% from subbing and 10% more from the xp pots. I honestly think that is their intentions. I wish for it to not be true, but its the elephant in the room right now.

+20% XP gain might help PvP folks and Dungeon/Trial/Arena/Questing PvE folks but it won't even scratch the surface of the XP disparity for the rest of ESO, Legerdemain, Crafting, Farming, Roleplaying, etc. ZoS themselves on many occasions over the past 2-3 months have said they want XP gain to be relatively the same across the board, at least that's the excuse they were using for continually nerfing Grinding and the "increased XP" that 1.6 supposedly brought to PvP and Dungeons.

hmmmmm

Robbmrp

DeLindsay wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

@DeLindsay I wish they would say something. Honestly I dont see them addressing this because that 20% extra xp is gonna take care of the issues. Sadly not for those who refuse to pay a sub and refuse to buy them. 10% from subbing and 10% more from the xp pots. I honestly think that is their intentions. I wish for it to not be true, but its the elephant in the room right now.

+20% XP gain might help PvP folks and Dungeon/Trial/Arena/Questing PvE folks but it won't even scratch the surface of the XP disparity for the rest of ESO, Legerdemain, Crafting, Farming, Roleplaying, etc. ZoS themselves on many occasions over the past 2-3 months have said they want XP gain to be relatively the same across the board, at least that's the excuse they were using for continually nerfing Grinding and the "increased XP" that 1.6 supposedly brought to PvP and Dungeons.

If that's truly the case then 1.6 CP XP Balance = EPIC FAIL......

Snit

Excellent post, @DeLindsay

ZOS needs to balance the median CP/ Hour for all of those activities -- PvP, Grinding, Solo Questing, Vet Dungeons, the works. And they need to do it with buffs, not nerfs. Give us more good options.

DeLindsay

Snit wrote: »

Excellent post, @DeLindsay

ZOS needs to balance the median CP/ Hour for all of those activities -- PvP, Grinding, Solo Questing, Vet Dungeons, the works. And they need to do it with buffs, not nerfs. Give us more good options.

Thank you, it took me a while to get all the XP numbers from Live in 1.6 so that I could get the correct calcs to what other playstyles should be increased by so that it's at least somewhat balanced.

DeLindsay

Well folks 2.0.1 is here and B2P is tomorrow and ZoS is utterly silent on the issue of massive XP disparity between playstyles in ESO. I'm sorry to all you fine folks if maybe this thread got your hopes up that ZoS would initiate a change for the positive. I will continue doing what I do in hopes that someday soon (before I completely give up) ZoS will actually see things through the eyes of their paying customers.

BTW: ESO Plus members +10% XP is active as of today, still doesn't make up for the difference in XP gain

Ysne58

DeLindsay wrote: »

Well folks 2.0.1 is here and B2P is tomorrow and ZoS is utterly silent on the issue of massive XP disparity between playstyles in ESO. I'm sorry to all you fine folks if maybe this thread got your hopes up that ZoS would initiate a change for the positive. I will continue doing what I do in hopes that someday soon (before I completely give up) ZoS will actually see things through the eyes of their paying customers.

BTW: ESO Plus members +10% XP is active as of today, still doesn't make up for the difference in XP gain

Why am I not surprised.

phairdon

Up until 2 days ago i was getting 414xp from npc with my vr14 sorc, grinding a vr10 zone. For whatever reason my xp dropped from 414 to 310 on the exact same mobs, same area, same map (these xp gains are while unenlightened). What I am finding even more odd, are a few npc only drop 20xp while grinding this spot. This is solo, not group grinding.

Yesterday decided to play my level vr4 sorc. 414xp from npc.

*Update*

Enlightenment is over. Now xp drops are worth 341 with my vr14 sorc. Just remembered we get a 10% bonus for having a subscription, hence the 341xp.

Methuselah

phairdon wrote: »

Up until 2 days ago i was getting 414xp from npc with my vr14 sorc, grinding a vr10 zone. For whatever reason my xp dropped from 414 to 310 on the exact same mobs, same area, same map (these xp gains are while unenlightened). What I am finding even more odd, are a few npc only drop 20xp while grinding this spot. This is solo, not group grinding.

Yesterday decided to play my level vr4 sorc. 414xp from npc.

Yeah i noticed that. Kinda like marking an item up, then saying its on sale. Making it the same price it was.

Spuddlethud

The current lack of common sense in XP throughout the game is mind boggling. How is discovering a wayshrine in Craglorn worth more XP than a pack of scorpions? What is the purpose of Craglorn at this point? Even the bosses in the group dungeons are worth less XP than 1 giant in The Rift.

For that matter, how about public dungeons? I haven't seen a point in going to one in months. Outside of achievements, what is the point of Public Dungeons? I can go through almost an entire PD and get less XP than 1 dolmen. Yet the mobs can kill me just as quick as they can at a dolmen. How does that make sense?

How is it that XP gain, one of the most fundamental mechanics in an RPG, is so out of whack? If you want to lower the XP value of mobs, fine. At least some consistency would be a step in the right direction.

Mr.Hmm

Or maybe something wrong went with the code and its a -10% EXP

DeLindsay

Spuddlethud wrote: »

How is it that XP gain, one of the most fundamental mechanics in an RPG, is so out of whack?

We've been asking Zos this question since near launch, they've never given us one good explanation as to why. Now with the Champion System this is an even greater issue, ZoS is still silent.

IcyDeadPeople

How about treating guild tabards like rings of mara, or offering a similar item in the crown store?

If you receive a small XP boost (5-10%) while wearing your tabard and grouped with guildies in Cyrodiil, it not only helps address the slower XP in PVP, but also encourages guild members to play together.

sigsergv

Another huge issue — XP gain penalty for groups. It's really weird that grouping causes reducing of XP.

cazlonb16_ESO

ZOS have a point about some players gaining decent xp in PvP even with the current system. These are the 24/7ers running in a bomb group all the time though, so probably around 0.1% of the PvP player base. Completely removing PvP as a viable way to level for the rest is an extremely poor way to handle the issue.

A much better way would be to steeply increase xp required past the intended CP/day and that would even take care of the grinding issue in one go. So we'd have the first CP each day with Enlightenment at 100k xp, the next two at the "normal" 400k xp, the 4th at 800k xp, 5th at 1200k, etc.

Numbers are arbitrary but you get the idea.