How do you feel about the B2P announcement

Anath_Q

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

wenxue2222b16_ESO wrote: »

I think I can sum my feelings up as sort of a bit cheated - not cheated in a monetary sense more a sort of emotional sense.

We bought into the vision of this game and stuck with it though all the bugs and problems and bad reviews over the last year. We stuck by you ZoS through the hard times - supporting you with our time and our money. Some of us (not me) even defended you endlessly these last few weeks when the rumour mill was practically on fire.

We supported you and the vision you told us you had for the game.

Then yesterday you turned that all on its head and stuck a knife in our backs while telling us we asked for the knife all along.

The trust is gone and you are going to work hard to get some of it back.

Our relationship is forever tainted now though. We can't trust you will do what you say anymore.

Well said.

Bloodfang

Like - may be positive like LoL's cash shop, with only vanity items

What's funny for each 1 that left -> 10 new players will come to replace them..
Their revenue will increase at least 3-5x.

What's more funny you people still don't realize that nearly nothing will change for all of us with the subscription. It's gonna stay P2P for us. Everything FREE.

However B2P will be for everyone that won't bother to pay for a sub, they will have to pay for each single update. It's kinda a Trial behind a paygate.

Remember nothing is changing, ZOS is just implementing 2 models at the same time. You always wanted more options, so why cry now?

Instead of spending 20€ on each and every mount / pet / costum, we will gather enough crowns with our subscription anyway (it will cost way less). Crown Store is a Feature. You won't be doing anything else that you weren't up to this point, the only difference is that you will be way better rewarded for keeping a sub.
So far we were getting NOTHING, now we are gonna get Mounts / Pets and Costums along with our SUB.

Seriously how many brainless people on these forums. We will be waiting here for you to come back anyway.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

Bloodfang wrote: »

What's funny for each 1 that left -> 10 new players will come to replace them..
Their revenue will increase at least 3-5x.

What's more funny you people still don't realize that nearly nothing will change for all of us with the subscription. It's gonna stay P2P for us. Everything FREE.

However B2P will be for everyone that won't bother to pay for a sub, they will have to pay for each single update. It's kinda a Trial behind a paygate.

Remember nothing is changing, ZOS is just implementing 2 models at the same time. You always wanted more options, so why cry now?

Instead of spending 20€ on each and every mount / pet / costum, we will gather enough crowns with our subscription anyway (it will cost way less). Crown Store is a Feature. You won't be doing anything else that you weren't up to this point, the only difference is that you will be way better rewarded for keeping a sub.
So far we were getting NOTHING, now we are gonna get Mounts / Pets and Costums along with our SUB.

Seriously how many brainless people on these forums. We will be waiting here for you to come back anyway.

You havent played many MMOs that are f2p or b2p have you?

Throren

Like - all of the "likes" above

Never said trust isn't an issue. But the way you guys lament about that trust when it is stepped on a bit makes it sound like they did something horrible as if they were a spouse you found cheating on you.

I get it your upset, but tone down the overdramatic "Oh whoa is me, my heart si broken and I can never trust you again. How could you be so cruel, I am so depressed"

Jesus grow up.

Bloodfang

Like - may be positive like LoL's cash shop, with only vanity items

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Bloodfang wrote: »

What's funny for each 1 that left -> 10 new players will come to replace them..
Their revenue will increase at least 3-5x.

What's more funny you people still don't realize that nearly nothing will change for all of us with the subscription. It's gonna stay P2P for us. Everything FREE.

However B2P will be for everyone that won't bother to pay for a sub, they will have to pay for each single update. It's kinda a Trial behind a paygate.

Remember nothing is changing, ZOS is just implementing 2 models at the same time. You always wanted more options, so why cry now?

Instead of spending 20€ on each and every mount / pet / costum, we will gather enough crowns with our subscription anyway (it will cost way less). Crown Store is a Feature. You won't be doing anything else that you weren't up to this point, the only difference is that you will be way better rewarded for keeping a sub.
So far we were getting NOTHING, now we are gonna get Mounts / Pets and Costums along with our SUB.

Seriously how many brainless people on these forums. We will be waiting here for you to come back anyway.

You havent played many MMOs that are f2p or b2p have you?

Oh I've played plenty and ESO isn't close to f2p.

How many B2P MMOs do you know with a sub? Exactly.

Reverb

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I guess they relaxed the forum rules. You can openly mock people now?

They're going to have to lighten up when they go b2p and the heathens descend en masse. May as well start letting things slide now.

folklore

Like - may be positive like LoL's cash shop, with only vanity items

I enjoy the game and right now is not a good time to judge. Be cautious and concerned, but don't flip tables before you even got to test things out. This could be a good change. If you have enjoyed the game, have some faith and patience and see where it goes... Once you have your information, decide if it is worth staying for.

Cogo

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

Throren wrote: »

I think you folks are getting way too emotionally invested in the developer/customer relationship. ZoS isn't your girlfriend, isn't your spouse. They are a company you do business with.

So, the hooker?

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

Bloodfang wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Bloodfang wrote: »

What's funny for each 1 that left -> 10 new players will come to replace them..
Their revenue will increase at least 3-5x.

What's more funny you people still don't realize that nearly nothing will change for all of us with the subscription. It's gonna stay P2P for us. Everything FREE.

However B2P will be for everyone that won't bother to pay for a sub, they will have to pay for each single update. It's kinda a Trial behind a paygate.

Remember nothing is changing, ZOS is just implementing 2 models at the same time. You always wanted more options, so why cry now?

Instead of spending 20€ on each and every mount / pet / costum, we will gather enough crowns with our subscription anyway (it will cost way less). Crown Store is a Feature. You won't be doing anything else that you weren't up to this point, the only difference is that you will be way better rewarded for keeping a sub.
So far we were getting NOTHING, now we are gonna get Mounts / Pets and Costums along with our SUB.

Seriously how many brainless people on these forums. We will be waiting here for you to come back anyway.

You havent played many MMOs that are f2p or b2p have you?

Oh I've played plenty and ESO isn't close to f2p.

How many B2P MMOs do you know with a sub? Exactly.

The ONLY difference between f2p and b2p is the box purchase. They ALL end up pay to win. They cannot make money selling cosmetics and mounts. They HAVE to have stuff thats pay to win like xp boosts, special potions stuff like that. Next they will announce "loot boxes" that require a key from the store to open. Dont believe me look at LOTRO for an example. They promised the same nonsense about no advantage items.

Reverb

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

Cogo wrote: »

Throren wrote: »

I think you folks are getting way too emotionally invested in the developer/customer relationship. ZoS isn't your girlfriend, isn't your spouse. They are a company you do business with.

So, the hooker?

No, hookers are honest about their intentions

Bloodfang

Like - may be positive like LoL's cash shop, with only vanity items

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Bloodfang wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Bloodfang wrote: »

What's funny for each 1 that left -> 10 new players will come to replace them..
Their revenue will increase at least 3-5x.

What's more funny you people still don't realize that nearly nothing will change for all of us with the subscription. It's gonna stay P2P for us. Everything FREE.

However B2P will be for everyone that won't bother to pay for a sub, they will have to pay for each single update. It's kinda a Trial behind a paygate.

Remember nothing is changing, ZOS is just implementing 2 models at the same time. You always wanted more options, so why cry now?

Instead of spending 20€ on each and every mount / pet / costum, we will gather enough crowns with our subscription anyway (it will cost way less). Crown Store is a Feature. You won't be doing anything else that you weren't up to this point, the only difference is that you will be way better rewarded for keeping a sub.
So far we were getting NOTHING, now we are gonna get Mounts / Pets and Costums along with our SUB.

Seriously how many brainless people on these forums. We will be waiting here for you to come back anyway.

You havent played many MMOs that are f2p or b2p have you?

Oh I've played plenty and ESO isn't close to f2p.

How many B2P MMOs do you know with a sub? Exactly.

The ONLY difference between f2p and b2p is the box purchase. They ALL end up pay to win. They cannot make money selling cosmetics and mounts. They HAVE to have stuff thats pay to win like xp boosts, special potions stuff like that. Next they will announce "loot boxes" that require a key from the store to open. Dont believe me look at LOTRO for an example. They promised the same nonsense about no advantage items.

Wrong. Look at GW2 -> They are not P2W, also they don't have a Sub either.
Rift is 100% F2P and is not P2W either.

ESO is switching to B2P + sub which is = P2P / B2P Hybrid. They are clearly aiming to overtake the West Market not just mess around with people.

Eventually everyone that is not subbed will be "forced" to do so.
Crown Store will keep operating, costums are gonna be nearly infinite.
DLCs are gonna be expensive and many.

Staying subscribed will only get you far more things than did in all these months since launch.

You people are crying because they are adding Cash Store. Us subscribers are not going to get limited to anything at all. Previously with our Sub we were getting nothing, now we will be getting crowns to spend for all the vanity crap. Updates will stay free for us.

Soul_bound

Dislike - other

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I guess they relaxed the forum rules. You can openly mock people now?

No, they're just hiding till the dust settles a bit...

Wolfshead

Cody wrote: »

I can get over paying for the DLC, as I have done that on consoles for all of my life:) The cash shops are my true concern. If I see even ONE piece of PVP/PvE gear in this "crown shop" I will immediately leave the game and go back to that MMO everyone hates. I refuse to play a game where people receive unfair advantages based on how much money they have.

If it stays cosmetics only, that will be OK with me. I wont like it, but I can get over it; but if these shops start selling gear, expect me to make a huge goodbye post on the forums. I am trying as hard as I can to stay with this game, as I still believe it can be great in the long run.

Sadly WoW is also trun more towards cash shop the ared talk about you can buy game time in game for gold and sell to other player and other thing that the go to add in next patch.

Well i have play other mmo that subscribe and cash shop and it is ok but what i wonder is those of us who still have our 6 month subscribe run pass march 17th do our account automatic turn in to a premium membership, ESO Plus account or not?

And i hope the add more then just 1 month subscribe options but i guess i will see how there cash shop will trun out if i dont like i guess i will start play DAI more and i little dispoint that did not gave us there loyal member that basically help trun this game around more heads up then did.

Also there PC/MAC version can still be have subscribe model as we have today for true is the console "subscribe model" dont need to affect PC/MAC version but i guess it is to much work to keep 2 business model run side by side but i guess the console well have there own mega servers.

SantieClaws

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

For those who think I am being over emotional I should explain that I played LOTRO for six years. I saw it turn from a great game into a corporate pickpocketing experience.

When I left LOTRO for ESO I was looking for something different. A game and company that promised a different direction, a different vision of what an online game could be - where the community and quality of gameplay mattered at least as much as how much you could squeeze out of each player. Where gameplay would not be changed by monetary decisions like adding a store button on every single menu like in LOTRO.

I supported that vision of a game where money would not get in the way of playing. I wonder where you lost your way ZoS?

Sarousse

Dislike - fears of new content slowing down

"We changed the formula because we listened to our players"

Maybe You should look at this poll's results.

How do I feel about the change ?

I feel betrayed by Matt FIROR and Paul SAGE, that are damn great LIARS.

You promised us that TESO will always stay on a subscription model and that was a lie.

Like all other MMO's compagnies, all is about making the highest profit possible while lying to your player community.

The golden age of TESO has passed.

Can't wait for CU now, at least their are not lying and mocking to their player base like You, ZoS employés, are doing.

BoloBoffin

Like - other

I've blogged on what I think about it. You can read the whole thing here: Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited

The tl;dr - I'm a little disappointed. There will come a day I'll end my subscription. I think that day is a long way off.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

Bloodfang wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Bloodfang wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Bloodfang wrote: »

What's funny for each 1 that left -> 10 new players will come to replace them..
Their revenue will increase at least 3-5x.

What's more funny you people still don't realize that nearly nothing will change for all of us with the subscription. It's gonna stay P2P for us. Everything FREE.

However B2P will be for everyone that won't bother to pay for a sub, they will have to pay for each single update. It's kinda a Trial behind a paygate.

Remember nothing is changing, ZOS is just implementing 2 models at the same time. You always wanted more options, so why cry now?

Instead of spending 20€ on each and every mount / pet / costum, we will gather enough crowns with our subscription anyway (it will cost way less). Crown Store is a Feature. You won't be doing anything else that you weren't up to this point, the only difference is that you will be way better rewarded for keeping a sub.
So far we were getting NOTHING, now we are gonna get Mounts / Pets and Costums along with our SUB.

Seriously how many brainless people on these forums. We will be waiting here for you to come back anyway.

You havent played many MMOs that are f2p or b2p have you?

Oh I've played plenty and ESO isn't close to f2p.

How many B2P MMOs do you know with a sub? Exactly.

The ONLY difference between f2p and b2p is the box purchase. They ALL end up pay to win. They cannot make money selling cosmetics and mounts. They HAVE to have stuff thats pay to win like xp boosts, special potions stuff like that. Next they will announce "loot boxes" that require a key from the store to open. Dont believe me look at LOTRO for an example. They promised the same nonsense about no advantage items.

Wrong. Look at GW2 -> They are not P2W, also they don't have a Sub either.
Rift is 100% F2P and is not P2W either.

ESO is switching to B2P + sub which is = P2P / B2P Hybrid. They are clearly aiming to overtake the West Market not just mess around with people.

Eventually everyone that is not subbed will be "forced" to do so.
Crown Store will keep operating, costums are gonna be nearly infinite.
DLCs are gonna be expensive and many.

Staying subscribed will only get you far more things than did in all these months since launch.

You people are crying because they are adding Cash Store. Us subscribers are not going to get limited to anything at all. Previously with our Sub we were getting nothing, now we will be getting crowns to spend for all the vanity crap. Updates will stay free for us.

LOL you obviously havent played GW2 or RIFT.

PhatGrimReaper

Dislike - fears of cash shops giving unfair advantages

I'm happy so long as some little snot nose kid with a rich daddy can't come along and buy what I have accrued over a year of exploring Tamriel.

Pay-to-Win = Graveyard of good games!!!

Nazon_Katts

Reverb wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I guess they relaxed the forum rules. You can openly mock people now?

They're going to have to lighten up when they go b2p and the heathens descend en masse. May as well start letting things slide now.

You could always do just that. But currently, the sides are blurred to the extent that the mods can't follow corporate order and it only seems like free for all, all the while it's just dunno who against.

Nazon_Katts

mislucb16_ESO wrote: »

"We changed the formula because we listened to our players"

Maybe You should look at this poll's results.

How do I feel about the change ?

I feel betrayed by Matt FIROR and Paul SAGE, that are damn great LIARS.

You promised us that TESO will always stay on a subscription model and that was a lie.

Like all other MMO's compagnies, all is about making the highest profit possible while lying to your player community.

The golden age of TESO has passed.

Can't wait for CU now, at least their are not lying and mocking to their player base like You, ZoS employés, are doing.

Mark would not approve.

Cogo

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

Reverb wrote: »

......honest about their intentions

What are you saying? You mean this statement they did was false?!

Bethesda's Vice President of PR, Pete Hines, has detailed the publisher's plan to support The Elder Scrolls Online post-launch with regular content additions. Speaking to GameSpot, Hines defended the game's monthly $14.99 subscription fee by describing it as a "value proposition".

Elder Scrolls Online defends subscription fee with regular, "significant" content
Bethesda want to give their MMO players a value proposition that's not just a "new sword" or a "funny hat" every month.

"We feel pretty strongly about the support we're going to have for the game and what you're going to get for those dollars," he said when asked why The Elder Scrolls Online was not pursuing a free-to-play model.

"We're also very confident in our ability to support it with content. And not content of the magnitude of, it's a new month, here's a new sword or here's a funny hat--but content that is real and significant and it feels like regular and consistent DLC releases."

Hines further justified the subscription fee by explaining that, as a massively multiplayer game, The Elder Scrolls Online would require all players to have the same content installed and available to them in order to interact with one another.

"So you wind up in a situation where you say, look, by and large, when you're talking about regular content, adding new features and new parts of the world, either you're all in or you're not," he continued.

Hines recognized that this may limit the MMORPG's potential number of players, saying that this was not an issue for Bethesda.

"We're not trying to make a game that everybody who plays games will automatically buy," he elaborated. "It is a certain kind of game. There's no shooter elements. There's no aliens. It is a massive, 'Go where you want, do what you want' game that we think offers the kind of experience that's worthy of a subscription."

Source:
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/elder-scrolls-online-defends-subscription-fee-with-regular-significant-content/1100-6418221/

AngryNord

Psychobunni wrote: »

I'm watching the stream late, but really @ZOS_MattFiror lied right of the bat by saying going B2P was response of "listening to their community" so whatever promises made after or ways they say they won't let it become PTW, w/e .......are taken with a grain of salt. The community clearly had a majority wanting the game to remain sub.

But, in the end it doesn't matter. I'll play until it stops being fun (or) you can buy achievements, whichever comes first.

But it _is_ listening to the community.. The community of whining kids on Facebook that's been spamming every official ESO post there with "F2P NOW!!!" since day one...

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

Yet another short term cash grab that will cost a company with a game full of potential their long term growing revenue.

I doubt ZOS are "the chosen ones" that will finally make an mmo work with a variant of f2p.Let's have fun while we still can, but start looking for a new home.

The_Sadist

You forgot an 'indifferent' option.

That being said, I'm happyish to see how it all turns out, GW2 is a good B2P game and if ESO follows suit I can see it working. If it's a flop (in terms of content release and whatnot) I'll take my money elsewhere. Lastly, if the cash shop becomes P2W I'll also leave, because nobody wants that.

AH93

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

Corporate greed will always prevail. People need to learn this, they care about money, nothing else.

Zhanovich

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

I hope they come to their senses until March 17, and make it p2p again
they just lose subscribers and receive nothing
such pathetic

Cogo

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

AngryNord wrote: »

Psychobunni wrote: »

I'm watching the stream late, but really @ZOS_MattFiror lied right of the bat by saying going B2P was response of "listening to their community" so whatever promises made after or ways they say they won't let it become PTW, w/e .......are taken with a grain of salt. The community clearly had a majority wanting the game to remain sub.

But, in the end it doesn't matter. I'll play until it stops being fun (or) you can buy achievements, whichever comes first.

But it _is_ listening to the community.. The community of whining kids on Facebook that's been spamming every official ESO post there with "F2P NOW!!!" since day one...

He had no problem what so ever talking on the whole internet last year.

I'd like Mr Matt Firor to explain this.

ZeniMax General Manager Matt Firor confirmed TESO's subscription model in an interview with GameStar.

"Charging a flat monthly (or subscription) fee means that we will offer players the game we set out to make, and the one that fans want to play," Firor said. "Going with any other model meant that we would have to make sacrifices and changes we weren't willing to make."

Firor was adamant that this was the right move for the game. "The Elder Scrolls Online was designed and developed to be a premium experience: hundreds of hours of gameplay, tons of depth and features, professional customer support -- and a commitment to have ongoing content at regular intervals after launch.

This type of experience is best paired with a one-time fee per month, as opposed to many smaller payments that would probably add up to more than $14.99/month any way."

Bethesda's Elder Scrolls Online argument

The case Bethesda (or ZeniMax) is trying to make goes like this: Free-to-play games have obnoxious paywalls and other limitations that create situations in which players who pay have better experiences than players who do not. Because of these design requirements, the only way to create an Elder Scrolls game that stays true to form is to build it as a subscription-only title.

When you're in an Elder Scrolls game, you're in a world. We don't want players to hit monetization fees when they're in the world. It's like, I go into a dungeon, if I don't have access to the dungeon is pops up a window: you don't have access to this, go buy 50 credits. We didn't want that experience. That's not an Elder Scrolls experience.

According to Firor, the studio has plans to release new content every four to six weeks, listing 15-hour Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood quest lines as examples of what players can expect to see.

Firor argues that only the forecastable revenue stream created by subscriptions will give the ZeniMax team the security it needs to create this type of high-quality content and keep it coming.

Source:
http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/08/21/the-elder-scrolls-online-will-be-subscription-based-will-not-j/

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/09/10/the-soapbox-the-case-against-the-elder-scrolls-onlines-subscri/

xtago

Bloodfang wrote: »

What's funny for each 1 that left -> 10 new players will come to replace them..
Their revenue will increase at least 3-5x.

What's more funny you people still don't realize that nearly nothing will change for all of us with the subscription. It's gonna stay P2P for us. Everything FREE.

However B2P will be for everyone that won't bother to pay for a sub, they will have to pay for each single update. It's kinda a Trial behind a paygate.

Remember nothing is changing, ZOS is just implementing 2 models at the same time. You always wanted more options, so why cry now?

Instead of spending 20€ on each and every mount / pet / costum, we will gather enough crowns with our subscription anyway (it will cost way less). Crown Store is a Feature. You won't be doing anything else that you weren't up to this point, the only difference is that you will be way better rewarded for keeping a sub.
So far we were getting NOTHING, now we are gonna get Mounts / Pets and Costums along with our SUB.

Seriously how many brainless people on these forums. We will be waiting here for you to come back anyway.

If only it actually worked like that.

In Asian MMO's F2P works only because they can't afford the sub anyway, how ever western MMO's don't last long pop wise.

GW2 is desperate for people to log in all the time, I get about 10+ emails for every ep they release they even keep asking a month or 2 after that ep released.

The problem with F2P is people assume lots of people will log in alas people only do the content and once seen they don't bother and with F2P people have no need to log in anymore thus you get a drop in pop.

Zenimax would have to release new content every week/fortnight/month, without fail and have it 100% working.

F2P is what killed Warhammer Online and The secret world and Age of conan haven't been too good either, Funcom use this method but I know both MMO's haven't been doing too well, and Funcom only keeps them going because it would go bankrupt otherwise.

As for consoles I don't understand the big fuss about them MMO's fail on consoles they just don't bother with them, when the newest games are out, the F2P model of ESO won't keep console players.

It's like this whole game has been hinged upon a console release and I don't know why, you'd do such a thing as a dev.

As the maps don't offer the content you require for a F2P model.

xtago

AH93 wrote: »

Corporate greed will always prevail. People need to learn this, they care about money, nothing else.

There's no money to be made with a F2P model in the western MMO markets there's a big reason why WoW and Eve online have always stayed as pay a sub to play.

zaria

Dislike - all of the "dislikes" above

adriant1978 wrote: »

Dislike especially because of the pressure the cash shop model will bring to add glitzy but lore-breaking content. There'll be pink unicorns and anime outfits before you know it.

This, and this is the nature of an cash shop, you have to add stuff lots of people want to pay for, it will be a pressure to do so even if it hurt the game long term.

The pay for dlc sounds nice but is a giant bug trap, how do you handle this in two years and 15 dlc, many late players will skip the earlier dlc and only get the latest with the current end game stuff.
Now this should work for dungeons but that about other content, think stuff like the justice system who interact with lots of the game.
How to handle just some players have that dlc?