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Feedback to the Champion System
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LtCrunch✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nazon_Katts wrote: »[snip]
It's exactly what was promised orignally. We were promised XP would be tracked and we would be compensated up to a cap, that's exactly what's going on here.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on May 19, 2024 10:59AMNerdSauce GamingLaughs-At-Wounds - Sap tanking since 03/30/14ßrandalf - Light armor tanking since 03/03/15Brandalf Beer-Belly - Tanking drunk since 12/30/164 -
Anex✭✭✭Well, after obtaining Tamriel Hero, I am a little more relieved. Still wondering about that 70 cap though.. looks like either way you're going to have to level another character to get full potential on points. Guess I will hold off on leveling my VR10.. I'm almost at Master Adventurer and I'm runnin out of things to do.
According to this though, we would be better logging the higher level character first then? Kinda confused about that.0 -
EQBallzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well, after obtaining Tamriel Hero, I am a little more relieved. Still wondering about that 70 cap though.. looks like either way you're going to have to level another character to get full potential on points. Guess I will hold off on leveling my VR10.. I'm almost at Master Adventurer and I'm runnin out of things to do.
According to this though, we would be better logging the higher level character first then? Kinda confused about that.
If you have a single max V14 character you will get the CP cap of 70 when 1.6 goes live. No need to level more than that prior to 1.6 and you would be wasting XP if you played any other vet level characters before 1.6 launches. After 1.6 launches you will again start earning XP toward CPs on vet level characters at the normal rate (whatever that will be).0 -
Inklings✭✭✭✭✭Nazon_Katts wrote: »[snip]
It's exactly what was promised orignally. We were promised XP would be tracked and we would be compensated up to a cap, that's exactly what's going on here.
Well they also did say only %5 of the player base would be reaching that cap. And to be fair a lot more then 5% of the player base has at least 1 vr14 character.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on May 19, 2024 11:01AM4 -
ashlee17✭✭✭✭Happy to see some changes. I think this is more equitable then the previous proposal. Glad to see Zos respond to the community. Can't wait to see all the things I can spend the champion points on!Administrator of More Than Fair Guild- North American Server- Come and Join us for a fun and friendly experience - 480+ members and great trader location- all factions welcome - mail me @ashlee17 in game for an invite.
Join the crusade for better guild management tools!
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/145742/help-we-need-more-guild-management-tools/p1
Please comment and support this cause!1 -
James-Wayne✭✭✭✭✭
✭James-Wayne wrote: »Great news but are you still tracking VP past VR14? Or the conversion system only works on the maximum level of VR14?
You're getting 1 CP per 200,000 xp earned, up to a max of 70 CP. So at 1 mil xp past VR14 (just before you'd ding V15 if that level existed), you will have maxed out the conversion CP. No point in tracking it after that.
Awesome thanks for clarifying!
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529 people have also earned this badge.0 -
Tavore1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Earned CP's on your account = 70
characters..
1. vr14 earned 70 can spend 70
2. vr1 earned 0 can spend 70
3. lvl 3 earned 0 can spend 70
4. lvl 3 earned 0 can spend 70
5. lvl 10 earned 0 can spend 70
6. not created yet earned 0 can spend 70 when created
7. same as 6
8. same as 6
Isn't it just this simple.
If this is the case i'm happy enough with that as long as in this example i can spend those 70 points on each of my characters.
If i spend 70 on one character then have no more points left for others then i don't like it.
This is correct up until 6-8. 6-8 is not exactly correct unless you create them prior to 1.6 going live. It clearly states that the initial CP award only counts for existing characters that are already created when 1.6 hits so you won't get that with every new character in the future (after 1.6).
My suggestion to anyone that will get CP from conversion would be to make sure you create any characters you *might* want to level up prior to 1.6 going live so that they get the CP bonus. If you have any mules or characters you plan on re-creating for any reason..do it now or they will not get those points after 1.6. I will be recreating one of my current mules to be a DK as that is the only class I don't have leveled up (or leveling up). That way if I decide to level up a DK I will have a character created already with the CP bonus.
For clarity..here is the info from her post that states what I'm referencing:Only currently existing characters created before Update 6 goes live are eligible to use points from the conversion pool. You must have at least one Veteran Rank character in order to receive Champion Points from this conversion pool to your account.
The 70 Champion Points from the conversion pool will never get more points added to it - only subtracted. If there’s a situation where you don’t use up all 70 points once the system is live, they will never be used since this only applies to characters you have preceding Update 6.
For example, if you have just one fresh VR4 character in your account, you’ll receive 15 Champion Points from the conversion after you log in. You will never be able to use the remaining 55 Points since it only applies to pre-existing characters prior to Update 6.
I am pretty sure you are misunderstanding this.
How it reads, to me, is that:
On 1.6 day there is a pool of up to 70 points that you can have earned on your account with your existing characters. This is the 'conversion pool'.
If on 1.6 day you are only eligible for, say, 22CP for you conversion pool you will never be able to get more into that pool.
But if you are eligible for all 70CP in your conversion pool then you will get all 70CP on 1.6 day.
CP are account wide. Any CP you earn on any character will go into a pool tied to your account and can be spent on any character whether created before or after 1.6 day. This includes whatever was in your conversion pool whether it was 22CP or 70CP.
Any play after 1.6 day will be added to your CP pool as normal. So if your conversion pool was 22CP and you earn 1CP by playing then your account pool will be 23CP for all characters, even new ones created after 1.6 day.
Because the CP are account based they can be spent on any character you create in the future and this includes the 'bonus' ones from the conversion pool.
Because CP are account based the full number in that pool can be spent on each character. So if your CP pool is 100CP you can spend 100CP onm each and every character you have or create in the future.
That much seems clear from their posting.
I think you can also make the small leap to assuming that if you were to delete a character that had earned points you would not lose those points as the points are account based. So potentially somewhere in the future you could have an account with a single level 1 character with 3,600 CP.Edited by Tavore1138 on January 10, 2015 10:23AMGM - Malazan
Raid Leader - Hungry Wolves
Legio Mortuum2 -
Enodoc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Yeah they did say 5% for that cap, but that was before they reduced the total amount of CPs by a factor of 4. Meaning that, just from that change, the cap would now be reached by more like 20% of players.Nazon_Katts wrote: »[snip]
It's exactly what was promised orignally. We were promised XP would be tracked and we would be compensated up to a cap, that's exactly what's going on here.
Well they also did say only %5 of the player base would be reaching that cap. And to be fair a lot more then 5% of the player base has at least 1 vr14 character.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on May 19, 2024 11:03AMUESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
Join us on Discord - discord.gg/uesp3 -
EQBallzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭SuraklinPrime wrote: »Earned CP's on your account = 70
characters..
1. vr14 earned 70 can spend 70
2. vr1 earned 0 can spend 70
3. lvl 3 earned 0 can spend 70
4. lvl 3 earned 0 can spend 70
5. lvl 10 earned 0 can spend 70
6. not created yet earned 0 can spend 70 when created
7. same as 6
8. same as 6
Isn't it just this simple.
If this is the case i'm happy enough with that as long as in this example i can spend those 70 points on each of my characters.
If i spend 70 on one character then have no more points left for others then i don't like it.
This is correct up until 6-8. 6-8 is not exactly correct unless you create them prior to 1.6 going live. It clearly states that the initial CP award only counts for existing characters that are already created when 1.6 hits so you won't get that with every new character in the future (after 1.6).
My suggestion to anyone that will get CP from conversion would be to make sure you create any characters you *might* want to level up prior to 1.6 going live so that they get the CP bonus. If you have any mules or characters you plan on re-creating for any reason..do it now or they will not get those points after 1.6. I will be recreating one of my current mules to be a DK as that is the only class I don't have leveled up (or leveling up). That way if I decide to level up a DK I will have a character created already with the CP bonus.
For clarity..here is the info from her post that states what I'm referencing:Only currently existing characters created before Update 6 goes live are eligible to use points from the conversion pool. You must have at least one Veteran Rank character in order to receive Champion Points from this conversion pool to your account.
The 70 Champion Points from the conversion pool will never get more points added to it - only subtracted. If there’s a situation where you don’t use up all 70 points once the system is live, they will never be used since this only applies to characters you have preceding Update 6.
For example, if you have just one fresh VR4 character in your account, you’ll receive 15 Champion Points from the conversion after you log in. You will never be able to use the remaining 55 Points since it only applies to pre-existing characters prior to Update 6.
I am pretty sure you are misunderstanding this.
How it reads, to me, is that:
On 1.6 day there is a pool of up to 70 points that you can have earned on your account with your existing characters. This is the 'conversion pool'.
If on 1.6 day you are only eligible for, say, 22CP for you conversion pool you will never be able to get more into that pool.
But if you are eligible for all 70CP in your conversion pool then you will get all 70CP on 1.6 day.
CP are account wide. Any CP you earn on any character will go into a pool tied to your account and can be spent on any character whether created before or after 1.6 day. This includes whatever was in your conversion pool whether it was 22CP or 70CP.
Any play after 1.6 day will be added to your CP pool as normal. So if your conversion pool was 22CP and you earn 1CP by playing then your account pool will be 23CP for all characters, even new ones created after 1.6 day.
Because the CP are account based they can be spent on any character you create in the future and this includes the 'bonus' ones from the conversion pool.
Because CP are account based the full number in that pool can be spent on each character. So if your CP pool is 100CP you can spend 100CP onm each and every character you have or create in the future.
That much seems clear from their posting.
I think you can also make the small leap to assuming that if you were to delete a character that had earned points you would not lose those points as the points are account based. So potentially somewhere in the future you could have an account with a single level 1 character with 3,600 CP.
Nope. Read that first line. I will repeat it.Only currently existing characters created before Update 6 goes live are eligible to use points from the conversion pool.
Essentially, they are creating two pools. One that will be your normal account-wide pool for regular CP gain after 1.6 (and works like you describe). Another conversion pool that will only exist if you have at least 1 VR1 character with at least 200k XP. The only characters that can use points from that conversion pool are characters that are created prior to 1.6 and that pool can never be increased once 1.6 launches. Read it again..only currently existing characters created before 1.6 goes live are eligible to use points in that pool. Seems quite clear to me.Edited by EQBallzz on January 10, 2015 10:52AM0 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Im gonna print the damn patch notes, and crawl up in a cozy chair with a cup of cocoa and a blanket, then start reading it ...slooowly.
PC EU
PvP only3 -
Vez✭✭✭SuraklinPrime wrote: »
Because the CP are account based they can be spent on any character you create in the future and this includes the 'bonus' ones from the conversion pool.
Because CP are account based the full number in that pool can be spent on each character. So if your CP pool is 100CP you can spend 100CP onm each and every character you have or create in the future.
That much seems clear from their posting.
I may be a total idiot and I may be reading this wrong so please bear with me. And I'm hoping for some clarification on this point from @ZOS_GinaBruno but this specific stand-alone point seems to contradict what you are saying:ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »- Only currently existing characters created before Update 6 goes live are eligible to use points from the conversion pool. You must have at least one Veteran Rank character in order to receive Champion Points from this conversion pool to your account.
If my reading is correct and characters created after 1.6 cannot use conversion pool points then I think it's clear there's some confusion on that point, that limited use of the conversion pool is not what most people expect, and that it's important for people to know which it is because, as @EQBallzz suggests, you may be forfeiting conversion pool points on characters that you have not yet created or intend to recreate.0 -
Nijjion✭✭✭✭So pretty much nothing has changed a VR14 for months gets the same as a VR14 who gets it the day before this goes live?
Does matter if you give us 30 70 or even none.
I think Zenimax has to stop promising us stuff if they want to have any credibility in the future.NijjijjioN - DK - AR27NijjioN - NB -Daggerfall CovenantThe Nice Guys GuildEverQuest -> Dark Age of Camelot -> Ragnarok Online -> Cabal Online -> Guild Wars 1 -> Warhammer Online -> Vindictus -> SWTOR -> Tera -> Guild Wars 2 -> Elder Scrolls Online ->
Eagerly awaiting Camelot Unchained.5 -
Tavore1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@EQBallzz & @Vez - I think the confusion is in the words 'eligible to use'.
I, and a majority, are taking this to mean that only characters that exist on 1.6 day qualify to call off points from the 70 available BUT once that 70 have been claimed they can be used by any character past or future.
This is further clarified in point 4 of Gina's examples where she says:
"Later, you start a new character; that character can use 75 Champion Points immediately."Edited by Tavore1138 on January 10, 2015 12:55PMGM - Malazan
Raid Leader - Hungry Wolves
Legio Mortuum3 -
Remmo✭✭Yes, there is definitely a confusion in Gina's notes regarding the creation of new characters and their ability to use conversion pool points. I think it's just ambiguous wording.
At the beginning of the post she states:"Only currently existing characters created before Update 6 goes live are eligible to use points from the conversion pool
And then at the very bottom:
"...70 from the total conversion, and 3 from the earlier play session. You play with this character for a while, and receive 2 more Champion Points from normal play. You now have 75 Champion Points in your account. Later, you start a new character; that character can use 75 Champion Points immediately."
I can only think that when she says "Later, you start a new character", she means that you're simply swapping to one of your alts that were already created before conversion day rather than a new one from the character creator. Otherwise the notes wouldn't make sense.
I'm reading it that a brand new, just created character would only be able to use the 5 CPs that were earn't after the conversion day. But who knows
Edited by Remmo on January 10, 2015 1:07PM0 -
Winnower✭✭✭✭I sincerely appreciate that the "feedback" (one could use other words in addition considering some of our comments) has been acknowledged and that a more progressive solution has been found than a flat number of cp.
It is nice to have a measure of the responsiveness of the people making our game. Thank you.
As you can see from my sig, I'd have more than 70 cp if the cap were not there. Personally I'm satisfied with the solution and find it to be adequate. I understand the reasons for the original decision (which I disagreed with strongly) and the reasons for this modified compromise (which I can live with).
I sincerely hope that it is enough to bring back some of people with 5+ VR14s. Hopefully most of those people didn't actually quest out every single one of their characters and that the system in general will continue to have xp generating capabilities enough to sustain both them, and those folks who only want 1 main anyway. Pretty sure it will.
30 cp out of 3600 points is 0.83%. 70 cp is 1.94%. A system that was so delicate that it swung out of balance because of a change in those numbers wouldn't have been a very good system anyway. And yet 14,000,000 experience is a measurable difference in progression between me and a new VR1 player. It doesn't reflect the actual XP amount that it took before VR level xp changed, it doesn't reflect the total amount that I'd get if there was not a CP cap in the conversion, it doesn't reflect 100% of the effort I and many others have put into it, but I do want the champion system to go into effect and I am *hoping* that the champion system will be better than the veteran system and make the game more desirable to more folks in the long run. Therefore I am willing to accept the compromise.
Again, thank you to the ZoS people who levered this change through. It was the right thing to do, and the smart thing. ((now, I want my 6-mos subscription(s) back.))VR14 Templar, VR14 DK, VR8 DK, VR7 NB, VR1 Sorcerer;
All 3 Alliances;
2 Pre-order Imperial Accounts, yes that means 16 characters on NA alone1 -
Ahdora✭✭✭✭✭Only VR characters created prior to 1.6 are eligible to use conversion points, meaning those are the only ones that can "earn" them.
Once the CPs are added to your account total, any character at any point can use them, even a brand new one you make.Heals With Stick, V11 Argonian Nightblade Healer, NA-EP3 -
Nazon_Katts✭✭✭✭✭
Yeah they did say 5% for that cap, but that was before they reduced the total amount of CPs by a factor of 4. Meaning that, just from that change, the cap would now be reached by more like 20% of players.Nazon_Katts wrote: »[snip]
It's exactly what was promised orignally. We were promised XP would be tracked and we would be compensated up to a cap, that's exactly what's going on here.
Well they also did say only %5 of the player base would be reaching that cap. And to be fair a lot more then 5% of the player base has at least 1 vr14 character.
The proportion remains the same, wether you multiply it with 100 or divide it by ten. "Very Few Players" was the base for the promised cap. At the time of that announcement many people already had multiple vr14, so at the very least multiple vr14 should have been the base back then and even higher right now.
I find a 2% progression for a year's worth of play a rather low reward and it still remains what it essentially is; a reboot of endgame and reset of characters. Since they're going the strict XP route, I won't miss out on that many CP myself anyways, but it's the wrong approach and only will turn the game even more into a grinder than it already was.
Yes, 70 CPs are way better than what was offered before, but if you look closely at it, it still devaluates most of what people have done the past year.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on May 19, 2024 11:03AM"You've probably figured that out by now. Let's hope so. Or we're in real trouble... and out come the intestines. And I skip rope with them!"3 -
kongkim✭✭✭✭✭Think its fine and a good way to do it.
[snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on May 19, 2024 11:06AM4 -
Morshire✭✭✭✭So pretty much nothing has changed a VR14 for months gets the same as a VR14 who gets it the day before this goes live?
Does matter if you give us 30 70 or even none.
I think Zenimax has to stop promising us stuff if they want to have any credibility in the future.
They did say there would be a cap. This system change for CP takes XP progress of VR levels and shows the difference between a VR1 and a VR14. Which was what people wanted. It also sticks to the cap, which was in place from the original announcement.Think its fine and a good way to do it.
[snip]
I cannot stop laughing. [snip]
[edited for flaming & to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on May 19, 2024 11:08AMFollow me if I advance, Kill me if I retreat, Avenge me if I die.
When this immediate evil power has been defeated, we shall not yet have won the long battle with the elemental barbarities. Another evil, it may be an invisible adversary, will attempt, again, and yet again, to destroy our frail civilization. Is it true, I wonder, that the only way to escape a war is to be in it?
If I die, you are forgiven, If I live, I will kill you.5 -
Audigy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hello everyone,
It’s normal in development to change how a system is going to be implemented from its original design. When we talk about designs early, we do so in order to get feedback and give you some insight to the direction we're taking. However, it's likely there may be changes along the way as we perform tests internally. Still, there is value in putting information out early.
Late last month, we announced changes to our original design for the Champion System, and provided a fairly thorough explanation as to why we decided to do this. Of specific concern was the conversion system of XP to Champion Points. What we had decided was if you had at least one Veteran Rank character, you would get a total of 30 Champion Points for your account. The Veteran Rank wouldn’t matter; all players with at least one Veteran character would get the same amount of Champion Points. We received a lot of feedback about these changes. Most of it centered around the concern that higher ranked Veteran characters were losing progress in the Champion System because they would have less opportunity to earn Champion Points, having already done a substantial amount of content.
Based off this feedback, we will be altering the conversion system with the following design:- Any Veteran Rank character that logs in after the system goes live will get 5 Champion Points added to the account for each full Veteran Rank that character has achieved.
- Partial credit will be given for XP earned within a Veteran Rank. This is based on a fraction of the total XP contained within the level. One Veteran Rank is currently 1,000,000XP, so the conversion system will grant you one Champion Point for every 200,000XP within a Veteran Rank.
- For example, if you are Veteran Rank 12 and have 800,000XP progress towards Veteran Rank 13, you will receive 59 Champion Points after the system goes live.
- EXTREMELY IMPORTANT: Only the conversion system will use 200,000XP for one Champion Point the day the system goes live in Update 6. This is not what it will take to earn a Champion Point while playing normally once the Champion System is live.
- It is possible that a Veteran Rank 1 character may not have earned 200,000XP into Veteran Rank 1. In this case, you will not receive a Champion Point after the system goes live.
- Champion Points are shared across all characters as the system is account wide, but for the conversion of XP to Champion Points, no more than 70 Champion Points will be given to an account.
- A VR14 character can receive up to 70 Champion Points depending on how much XP into VR14 they are, but 70 is the maximum the conversion system will give out for the account.
- If you have multiple Veteran Rank characters, you will receive credit for each Veteran Rank upon logging into each character (provided the account has not reached 70 Champion Points given out in the conversion).
- Only currently existing characters created before Update 6 goes live are eligible to use points from the conversion pool. You must have at least one Veteran Rank character in order to receive Champion Points from this conversion pool to your account.
- The 70 Champion Points from the conversion pool will never get more points added to it - only subtracted. If there’s a situation where you don’t use up all 70 points once the system is live, they will never be used since this only applies to characters you have preceding Update 6.
- For example, if you have just one fresh VR4 character in your account, you’ll receive 15 Champion Points from the conversion after you log in. You will never be able to use the remaining 55 Points since it only applies to pre-existing characters prior to Update 6.
- You have one full VR14 character and one VR6 character that hasn’t earned any XP when the system goes live. You log in with the VR14 first and are granted 70 Champion Points from the conversion. You log in later with your VR6, and are able to use 70 Champion Points due to them being account wide.
- You have just one VR5 character with 400,000XP toward the next Veteran Rank. When you log in, you are granted 22 Champion Points from the conversion. After you spend your points, you immediately create a new character. That character does not get any Champion Points from the conversion, but can use the 22 Champion Points from the account pool.
- Here’s a complicated one: You have one fresh VR14, one VR6 with 800,000XP toward the next Veteran Rank, one new VR3 character, and one level 25 character. You log in with the VR6 first and receive 29 Champion Points from the conversion. Then you log in with your VR3 and receive 10 Champion Points from the conversion; you now have 39 points in your account to use. You log in with your level 25 and don’t receive any new points from the conversion, but are able to use the 39 points from the account. Finally, you log in with your VR14 and are granted 31 additional Champion Points from the conversion, since you can only receive a total of 70 Champion Points from the conversion.
- You have one full VR14 character and one new VR4 character. You log in with your VR4 and receive 15 Champion Points. You begin to quest and play for a while, and receive 3 more Champion Points throughout your session. Later, you log in with your VR14. You receive 55 Points from the conversion, and are able to use 73 Champion Points – 70 from the total conversion, and 3 from the earlier play session. You play with this character for a while, and receive 2 more Champion Points from normal play. You now have 75 Champion Points in your account. Later, you start a new character; that character can use 75 Champion Points immediately.
I must admit I don't like that change.
1. [snip]
2. To give VR 14 players a 280 hour advantage doesn't sound right in my books. So now a VR 14 isn't only much stronger due his VR, but he will also have 280 hours of gameplay more than a VR 1 in PVP.
I felt giving the VR 14 30 CP was the right move, while VR 1 2CP.
The gap is just too big now, I don't see how this is good for a new system if several players have a 280 hour advantage over everyone else.
I also wonder how you will balance the difficulty between someone with 0 CP and those with 70 CP?
You should had stayed with the 30 CP, it felt right and justified to give VR 14 a 120 hour advantage as this is what it takes to get to VR 14. 280 is too much, sorry.
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on May 19, 2024 11:09AM9 - Any Veteran Rank character that logs in after the system goes live will get 5 Champion Points added to the account for each full Veteran Rank that character has achieved.
-
Morshire✭✭✭✭@kongkim - Alright, well played. You got a laugh out of me and an awesome for the way you responded.Follow me if I advance, Kill me if I retreat, Avenge me if I die.
When this immediate evil power has been defeated, we shall not yet have won the long battle with the elemental barbarities. Another evil, it may be an invisible adversary, will attempt, again, and yet again, to destroy our frail civilization. Is it true, I wonder, that the only way to escape a war is to be in it?
If I die, you are forgiven, If I live, I will kill you.1 -
Tavore1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hello everyone,
It’s normal in development to change how a system is going to be implemented from its original design. When we talk about designs early, we do so in order to get feedback and give you some insight to the direction we're taking. However, it's likely there may be changes along the way as we perform tests internally. Still, there is value in putting information out early.
Late last month, we announced changes to our original design for the Champion System, and provided a fairly thorough explanation as to why we decided to do this. Of specific concern was the conversion system of XP to Champion Points. What we had decided was if you had at least one Veteran Rank character, you would get a total of 30 Champion Points for your account. The Veteran Rank wouldn’t matter; all players with at least one Veteran character would get the same amount of Champion Points. We received a lot of feedback about these changes. Most of it centered around the concern that higher ranked Veteran characters were losing progress in the Champion System because they would have less opportunity to earn Champion Points, having already done a substantial amount of content.
Based off this feedback, we will be altering the conversion system with the following design:- Any Veteran Rank character that logs in after the system goes live will get 5 Champion Points added to the account for each full Veteran Rank that character has achieved.
- Partial credit will be given for XP earned within a Veteran Rank. This is based on a fraction of the total XP contained within the level. One Veteran Rank is currently 1,000,000XP, so the conversion system will grant you one Champion Point for every 200,000XP within a Veteran Rank.
- For example, if you are Veteran Rank 12 and have 800,000XP progress towards Veteran Rank 13, you will receive 59 Champion Points after the system goes live.
- EXTREMELY IMPORTANT: Only the conversion system will use 200,000XP for one Champion Point the day the system goes live in Update 6. This is not what it will take to earn a Champion Point while playing normally once the Champion System is live.
- It is possible that a Veteran Rank 1 character may not have earned 200,000XP into Veteran Rank 1. In this case, you will not receive a Champion Point after the system goes live.
- Champion Points are shared across all characters as the system is account wide, but for the conversion of XP to Champion Points, no more than 70 Champion Points will be given to an account.
- A VR14 character can receive up to 70 Champion Points depending on how much XP into VR14 they are, but 70 is the maximum the conversion system will give out for the account.
- If you have multiple Veteran Rank characters, you will receive credit for each Veteran Rank upon logging into each character (provided the account has not reached 70 Champion Points given out in the conversion).
- Only currently existing characters created before Update 6 goes live are eligible to use points from the conversion pool. You must have at least one Veteran Rank character in order to receive Champion Points from this conversion pool to your account.
- The 70 Champion Points from the conversion pool will never get more points added to it - only subtracted. If there’s a situation where you don’t use up all 70 points once the system is live, they will never be used since this only applies to characters you have preceding Update 6.
- For example, if you have just one fresh VR4 character in your account, you’ll receive 15 Champion Points from the conversion after you log in. You will never be able to use the remaining 55 Points since it only applies to pre-existing characters prior to Update 6.
- You have one full VR14 character and one VR6 character that hasn’t earned any XP when the system goes live. You log in with the VR14 first and are granted 70 Champion Points from the conversion. You log in later with your VR6, and are able to use 70 Champion Points due to them being account wide.
- You have just one VR5 character with 400,000XP toward the next Veteran Rank. When you log in, you are granted 22 Champion Points from the conversion. After you spend your points, you immediately create a new character. That character does not get any Champion Points from the conversion, but can use the 22 Champion Points from the account pool.
- Here’s a complicated one: You have one fresh VR14, one VR6 with 800,000XP toward the next Veteran Rank, one new VR3 character, and one level 25 character. You log in with the VR6 first and receive 29 Champion Points from the conversion. Then you log in with your VR3 and receive 10 Champion Points from the conversion; you now have 39 points in your account to use. You log in with your level 25 and don’t receive any new points from the conversion, but are able to use the 39 points from the account. Finally, you log in with your VR14 and are granted 31 additional Champion Points from the conversion, since you can only receive a total of 70 Champion Points from the conversion.
- You have one full VR14 character and one new VR4 character. You log in with your VR4 and receive 15 Champion Points. You begin to quest and play for a while, and receive 3 more Champion Points throughout your session. Later, you log in with your VR14. You receive 55 Points from the conversion, and are able to use 73 Champion Points – 70 from the total conversion, and 3 from the earlier play session. You play with this character for a while, and receive 2 more Champion Points from normal play. You now have 75 Champion Points in your account. Later, you start a new character; that character can use 75 Champion Points immediately.
I must admit I don't like that change.
1. [snip]
2. To give VR 14 players a 280 hour advantage doesn't sound right in my books. So now a VR 14 isn't only much stronger due his VR, but he will also have 280 hours of gameplay more than a VR 1 in PVP.
I felt giving the VR 14 30 CP was the right move, while VR 1 2CP.
The gap is just too big now, I don't see how this is good for a new system if several players have a 280 hour advantage over everyone else.
I also wonder how you will balance the difficulty between someone with 0 CP and those with 70 CP?
You should had stayed with the 30 CP, it felt right and justified to give VR 14 a 120 hour advantage as this is what it takes to get to VR 14. 280 is too much, sorry.
LOL
1. [snip]
2. Some places put a CP at 1 hour, others at 4 hours - the truth is we don't know how long one would take yet. But given that people have often quoted time spent on a character of well over 1,000 hours on these forums then 70 or even 280 hours of CP is actually quite tame. As other maths heads have also noted 70CP is a massive 1.94% of the total available CP - I think that gives plenty of scope.
I don't think the game is seeking to make everyone equal - and that would be dull - if you take out progression as a result of effort spent then games become fairly pointless, you might as well make an envelope stuffing sim. [Envelopes are what people used to encapsulate 'packets' of mail in the olden days]
And, anyway, in 6 months time when those who have burnt another 1,000+ hours have either 250CP or 1,000CP more than now then someone hitting 50/VR1 fresh is still going to be that many points behind. If ZOS have done their jobs right then the advantage provided by CP will be worthwhile but not insurmountable i.e. a great player with 3,600CP should beat a great player with 0CP but a great player with 0CP will still beat an average one with 3,600CP.
[edited for flaming & to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on May 19, 2024 11:10AMGM - Malazan
Raid Leader - Hungry Wolves
Legio Mortuum7 - Any Veteran Rank character that logs in after the system goes live will get 5 Champion Points added to the account for each full Veteran Rank that character has achieved.
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Morshire✭✭✭✭I am not going to quote all of the above from @SuraklinPrime, too much, but I do want to say something on it. ZOS had to keep the number small or people would be well into a system that no one even understands. No one should be allowed to grab the lion's share of a new system being introduced. Period. Balance that with the fact that ZOS could not discount the effort expended by those players with 1000+ hours either. I could have lived with 30CP for VR14 and none for VR1. (Mind you, I only have 1 VR5, all others of mine do not count at all towards the CP gain yet.) Keeping that CP number low will leave those at end game plenty of potential growth to achieve with continued game play.
Before you all flame away at me, I get it, not everyone is going to like this. And maybe it isn't even going to work out well (Not a fortune teller or chicken bone reader) but it cannot be said that ZOS did not listen to the forums and at least try to be "fairer" about this. I will let everyone else determine how much they like or agree with what we are getting. Personally I am pacified that my specific grip was addressed. I never "demanded" that I get things my way. I did strongly voice my opinion and "demand" that ZOS change the direction they were going with the CP. For me, "nailed it" is all I got.
Sorry for any who feel they got shafted or are getting shafted, but pretty sure this is as far as ZOS is going on this one and for me at least, it is far enough.
NOTE: While I am addressing @SuraklinPrime, this is not directed at you, but rather a continuation of what you are discussing with the people you quoted. (Maybe I am getting too polite?)Follow me if I advance, Kill me if I retreat, Avenge me if I die.
When this immediate evil power has been defeated, we shall not yet have won the long battle with the elemental barbarities. Another evil, it may be an invisible adversary, will attempt, again, and yet again, to destroy our frail civilization. Is it true, I wonder, that the only way to escape a war is to be in it?
If I die, you are forgiven, If I live, I will kill you.4 -
ZOS_GinaBrunoCommunity ManagerSuraklinPrime wrote: »@EQBallzz & @Vez - I think the confusion is in the words 'eligible to use'.
I, and a majority, are taking this to mean that only characters that exist on 1.6 day qualify to call off points from the 70 available BUT once that 70 have been claimed they can be used by any character past or future.
This is further clarified in point 4 of Gina's examples where she says:
"Later, you start a new character; that character can use 75 Champion Points immediately."
You know, sometimes when you write something, you hear it differently in your head than what others hear. Sorry about that.
@SuraklinPrime, you've got it right. Points from the conversion pool can only be claimed by characters that exist prior to Update 6, but once those points are claimed, they move into an account-wide Champion pool that can be used by any character (no matter when they were created). We'll edit the first post to clarify.11 -
Morshire✭✭✭✭@ZOS_GinaBruno - Thanks for that. It has come up more than once. Appreciate you clearing up the confusion before it turned to......
Follow me if I advance, Kill me if I retreat, Avenge me if I die.
When this immediate evil power has been defeated, we shall not yet have won the long battle with the elemental barbarities. Another evil, it may be an invisible adversary, will attempt, again, and yet again, to destroy our frail civilization. Is it true, I wonder, that the only way to escape a war is to be in it?
If I die, you are forgiven, If I live, I will kill you.4 -
Vez✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »@EQBallzz & @Vez - I think the confusion is in the words 'eligible to use'.
I, and a majority, are taking this to mean that only characters that exist on 1.6 day qualify to call off points from the 70 available BUT once that 70 have been claimed they can be used by any character past or future.
This is further clarified in point 4 of Gina's examples where she says:
"Later, you start a new character; that character can use 75 Champion Points immediately."
You know, sometimes when you write something, you hear it differently in your head than what others hear. Sorry about that.
@SuraklinPrime, you've got it right. Points from the conversion pool can only be claimed by characters that exist prior to Update 6, but once those points are claimed, they move into an account-wide Champion pool that can be used by any character (no matter when they were created). We'll edit the first post to clarify.
Thank you for clearing that up!0
This discussion has been closed.