Feedback to the Champion System

randolphbenoit · January 2015

Sadly @James-Wayne not everyone will be testing PTS. But ZOS should fix the XP Bar asap before Update 1.6 goes live.

Ahdora · January 2015

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

..

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Just to be sure I understand, when the Champion System is fully implemented in 1.7, the max level will be 50 instead of V14, correct? And beyond that all you earn is Champion points.

The simple answer is "yes"

The phrase "beyond that," to me, does not really capture it. It makes more sense to think of the Champion System as something you do at Level 50.

Also, I think max level (level cap) is, and always has been, Level 50. I do not think that ZOS considers VR14 to be anything more than the maximum Veteran Rank.

If level 50 becomes the max, I wonder what'll become of gear beyond that level, i.e gear currently at V14. I assume ZOS will just scale it back down to 50.

I have heard mention of a tiered system but there's not a lot of information about it yet. That will happen in 1.7 so they have some time to figure it out.

ThornJagger · January 2015

I really like the way the CP is going to be dispersed here, thanks for listening to us ZOS. There's no "make everyone happy pill" here, but it's close.
When can we expect to see this in PTS?

Laplace · January 2015

Will the Golden Saint, Dark Seducer, and Mannimarco costumes still be available for characters to acquire once the Champion System completely phases out the Veteran Ranks?

Sarah_Lynn · January 2015

So we're not getting 30 points now, just this? Or is this going on top of that?

Stonesthrow · January 2015

Laplace wrote: »

Will the Golden Saint, Dark Seducer, and Mannimarco costumes still be available for characters to acquire once the Champion System completely phases out the Veteran Ranks?

Interesting... and fresh, new... exciting twist to discuss!

My guess is yes, and mainly because it rhymes.

ZOS_GinaBruno · January 2015

Ahdora wrote: »

randolphbenoit wrote: »

A VR14 character can receive up to 70 Champion Points depending on how much XP into VR14 they are, but 70 is the maximum the conversion system will give out for the account.

But once you hit Vet 14 the XP bar no longer shows your current XP (to say vet 15 for example).

How do we know how much XP been gain after vet 14? I mean how we know we will get full 70 Champion Points on one character?

Players with more than one Vet toon can tell if they done enough, so what about those only one Vet toon (at Max lvl)

She said earlier in the thread that while your XP bar shows as being full once you reach V14, that hovering over it actually shows your XP gain since leveling.

Apologies, everyone. Unfortunately I misunderstood the information given to me, and hovering over the bar does not show you how far into VR14 you are.

Ahdora wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Just to be sure I understand, when the Champion System is fully implemented in 1.7, the max level will be 50 instead of V14, correct? And beyond that all you earn is Champion points.

Yep.

To be clear, we have never confirmed any features that will be in Update 7. When we have details about Update 7 or any further plans with the Champion System, we'll let you all know!

Ludoviko · January 2015

Sarah_Lynn wrote: »

So we're not getting 30 points now, just this? Or is this going on top of that?

Please scan through the previous posts before asking a question that has been answered multiple times.

Stonesthrow · January 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To be clear, we have never confirmed any features that will be in Update 7. When we have details about Update 7 or any further plans with the Champion System, we'll let you all know!

Safer... much safer!

Ludoviko · January 2015

It's all good Gina! The information you have provided all of us the past few days has truly been amazing. These things take take time! But hurry up would ya :P

ebls_BR · January 2015

This system is very unfair with people with multiples VR14 char.

I have 5, all of them finished Cadwell Gold... Spent all my time doing quests dungeons, DSA, etc. Of course kill a lot of mobs... Only one of my toons will get the 70 CP.

This may be a compromise more unfair than before, because affect exactly the people who invested more time in the game... but since they affect less players, looks like more fair.

A solution which is bad for everyone is better than a solution which is bad only and especially for those who deserve more and are the minority.

Tavore1138 · January 2015

ebls_BR wrote: »

This system is very unfair with people with multiples VR14 char.

I have 5, all of them finished Cadwell Gold... Spent all my time doing quests dungeons, DSA, etc. Of course kill a lot of mobs... Only one of my toons will get the 70 CP.

This may be a compromise more unfair than before, because affect exactly the people who invested more time in the game... but since they affect less players, looks like more fair.

A solution which is bad for everyone is better than a solution which is bad only and especially for those who deserve more and are the minority.

No - all your toons will have 70CP to spend each.

What you will not have is 350CP to spend on each one.

glak · January 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Ahdora wrote: »

randolphbenoit wrote: »

A VR14 character can receive up to 70 Champion Points depending on how much XP into VR14 they are, but 70 is the maximum the conversion system will give out for the account.

But once you hit Vet 14 the XP bar no longer shows your current XP (to say vet 15 for example).

How do we know how much XP been gain after vet 14? I mean how we know we will get full 70 Champion Points on one character?

Players with more than one Vet toon can tell if they done enough, so what about those only one Vet toon (at Max lvl)

She said earlier in the thread that while your XP bar shows as being full once you reach V14, that hovering over it actually shows your XP gain since leveling.

Apologies, everyone. Unfortunately I misunderstood the information given to me, and hovering over the bar does not show you how far into VR14 you are.

Ahdora wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Just to be sure I understand, when the Champion System is fully implemented in 1.7, the max level will be 50 instead of V14, correct? And beyond that all you earn is Champion points.

Yep.

To be clear, we have never confirmed any features that will be in Update 7. When we have details about Update 7 or any further plans with the Champion System, we'll let you all know!

Shadow-Fighter wrote: »

here is an excerpt from the ESO API
Example: /script d(GetUnitXP("player"))

* GetUnitXP(*string* _unitTag_)
** _Returns:_ *integer* _exp_

* GetUnitXPMax(*string* _unitTag_)
** _Returns:_ *integer* _maxExp_

* IsUnitVeteran(*string* _unitTag_)
** _Returns:_ *bool* _isVeteran_

* GetUnitVeteranPoints(*string* _unitTag_)
** _Returns:_ *integer* _points_

* GetUnitVeteranPointsMax(*string* _unitTag_)
** _Returns:_ *integer* _maxPoints_

randolphbenoit · January 2015

@ebls_BR all your toons will get 70 CP to use their way from the shared pool. since you have more than one vet14 it for sure u get full 70 CP. but it will be used by all your toons.

ebls_BR · January 2015

"no more than 70 Champion Points will be given to an account."

The third example from the initial post it's pretty clear:
"You have one fresh VR14, one VR6 with 800,000XP toward the next Veteran Rank, one new VR3 character, and one level 25 character. You log in with the VR6 first and receive 29 Champion Points from the conversion. Then you log in with your VR3 and receive 10 Champion Points from the conversion; you now have 39 points in your account to use. You log in with your level 25 and don’t receive any new points from the conversion, but are able to use the 39 points from the account. Finally, you log in with your VR14 and are granted 31 additional Champion Points from the conversion, since you can only receive a total of 70 Champion Points from the conversion."

I have 5 VR14 eligible to get 70 CP. Logged in with one..., got my 70 CP.

Logged on with another toon..., since I already received the limit for the account (70 CP), this one (and the other 3 characters) will not gain any CP. Of course I can spend my 70 CP (earned with the first) with this second char, but although he is eligible to get another 70 CP, this toon will not receive any CP since I've already reach the limit for my account.

It's what I understood. So..., still: "only one of my toons will get the 70 CP"

radiostar · January 2015

Sarah_Lynn wrote: »

So we're not getting 30 points now, just this? Or is this going on top of that?

No, it's been changed now from a flat 30 to based on VR level/XP earned. This is replacing the 30 point reward system.

Orchish · January 2015

Good stuff. Now hurry up and roll this update out, i am eager to try it!

glak · January 2015

ebls_BR wrote: »

"no more than 70 Champion Points will be given to an account."

The third example from the initial post it's pretty clear:
"You have one fresh VR14, one VR6 with 800,000XP toward the next Veteran Rank, one new VR3 character, and one level 25 character. You log in with the VR6 first and receive 29 Champion Points from the conversion. Then you log in with your VR3 and receive 10 Champion Points from the conversion; you now have 39 points in your account to use. You log in with your level 25 and don’t receive any new points from the conversion, but are able to use the 39 points from the account. Finally, you log in with your VR14 and are granted 31 additional Champion Points from the conversion, since you can only receive a total of 70 Champion Points from the conversion."

I have 5 VR14 eligible to get 70 CP. Logged in with one..., got my 70 CP.

Logged on with another toon..., since I already received the limit for the account (70 CP), this one (and the other 3 characters) will not gain any CP. Of course I can spend my 70 CP (earned with the first) with this second char, but although he is eligible to get another 70 CP, this toon will not receive any CP since I've already reach the limit for my account.

It's what I understood. So..., still: "only one of my toons will get the 70 CP"

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

@EQBallzz‌ & @Vez - I think the confusion is in the words 'eligible to use'.

I, and a majority, are taking this to mean that only characters that exist on 1.6 day qualify to call off points from the 70 available BUT once that 70 have been claimed they can be used by any character past or future.

This is further clarified in point 4 of Gina's examples where she says:

"Later, you start a new character; that character can use 75 Champion Points immediately."

You know, sometimes when you write something, you hear it differently in your head than what others hear. Sorry about that.

@SuraklinPrime‌, you've got it right. Points from the conversion pool can only be claimed by characters that exist prior to Update 6, but once those points are claimed, they move into an account-wide Champion pool that can be used by any character (no matter when they were created). We'll edit the first post to clarify.

Notice the last part: "once those points are claimed, they move into an account-wide Champion pool that can be used by any character (no matter when they were created)"

There is a champion points used count per character that only increases for that character.
There is a forever increasing champion points pool which is never deducted.
There is a temporary xp to cp conversion pool.

Strategy: Have one VR14 use all 70 cp from the temporary cp pool. The count will go against only that character. Conversion process complete, and 70 cp will be available to all of your other VR14 characters.

Mujuro · January 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Apologies, everyone. Unfortunately I misunderstood the information given to me, and hovering over the bar does not show you how far into VR14 you are.

How do we determine "how far into VR14" we are? Do we need to use @Shadow-Fighter's script excerpt or something like Wykkyd's Toolbar's XP functionality to see the amount of XP into VR 14, or is there a method to show XP without using add-ons?

Sharee · January 2015

Mujuro wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Apologies, everyone. Unfortunately I misunderstood the information given to me, and hovering over the bar does not show you how far into VR14 you are.

How do we determine "how far into VR14" we are? Do we need to use @Shadow-Fighter's script excerpt or something like Wykkyd's Toolbar's XP functionality to see the amount of XP into VR 14, or is there a method to show XP without using add-ons?

The script is not an addon, its part of the default game.

/script d(GetUnitXP("player"))

Typing this (exactly as above) in game chat window will return the total amount of XP your character has earned.

Muizer · January 2015

About being unfair to people with multiple V14's, it never mattered to the strength of the character in-game how many characters the player had "on the bench". So compensating for all of them would create a power difference where none existed before and that nobody had reason to anticipate (not even after the announcement of the CP system).

Enodoc · January 2015

Muizer wrote: »

About being unfair to people with multiple V14's, it never mattered to the strength of the character in-game how many characters the player had "on the bench". So compensating for all of them would create a power difference where none existed before and that nobody had reason to anticipate (not even after the announcement of the CP system).

That's an interesting point, and probably boils down to their decision to make CPs account-wide. If CPs were character-locked instead of account-wide, compensating players for their time per character would be easier; but since they have decided on an account-wide system, they need to be careful not to overpower someone's main VR14 because they have 6 others.

Kraven · January 2015

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Just to be sure I understand, when the Champion System is fully implemented in 1.7, the max level will be 50 instead of V14, correct? And beyond that all you earn is Champion points.

Possibly. Full implementation will come in a future update and vet ranks will be removed. However, that could be 1.7 or it could be 1.9 or even further out.

Yes, when vet ranks are removed level 50 characters will be earning CP, currently I believe they will only be earning xp toward cp at that point but that may or may not change.

ebls_BR · January 2015

Muizer wrote: »

About being unfair to people with multiple V14's, it never mattered to the strength of the character in-game how many characters the player had "on the bench". So compensating for all of them would create a power difference where none existed before and that nobody had reason to anticipate (not even after the announcement of the CP system).

The primary reason of the whole discussion here is not being more or less strong. That, has no importance to me. For instance, I developed 5 VR14 toons in different factions (2 AD, 2 EP and 1 DC), for one and sole reason: to play with all my friends. Actually, the first time I went to Cyrodiil, I already had two VR14... Neither I developed 5 VR14 to acquire more or less CP at the transition. The whole point here is to have what you deserve by your own effort and time investment.

I'll give an example of how bad this choice is for someone like me. As I've said, I have 5 VR14, by completing quests (Cadwell's Silver and Gold and Craglorn), dungeons, pledges, destroying multiple times Dark Anchors and World Bosses, etc. Yes, with one of them (an EP toon), I "grinded" in Craglorn; then this toon still is in Greenshade doing Cadwell's Gold quests. This character, my last VR14 (and the less developed of all of my VR14), have at the moment, almost 7000 achievements points and is already Undaunted 8 ...

As for the others toons, well..., I have two with more than 10k achievements, finished DSA Veteran, 250 Dark Anchors (Enemy of Coldharbor and Daedric Lord Slayer titles) and they are Undaunted 9... (with one of them I've never played in Cyrodiil...), and I have at least 3 toons without any Cadwell's Silver and Gold quests to do (yep, I finished everything, including side quests).

When the system change, How will I have to acquire CP with these toons? Since I'll have less opportunity to acquire my CP (don't have quests to turn or do), I'll have to do something that I always hated: grinding.

badmojo0777b14_ESO · January 2015

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

nikos wrote: »

In my opinion, this is very bad decision. In this case, player who has one vr14 character and player who has 8 vr14 characters will receive same number of CP. But player with one vr14 character can claim much more CP point while playing other new characters after update 6 was released, as opposed to player with 8 vr14 chars, who should delete some chars and start playing with new one to claim any additional CP points.

I have to agree with you here, I will be losing out on about 120 hours of leveling which isn't as bad as the 300+ hour loss I would have suffered before, but it is still a LOT of loss. I think those people who have multiple V14's should be compensated some other way if they insist on keeping a cap and taking away experience you earned.

sorry but I believe you are both wrong. a player who only has ONE VR14 will get 70 points for his toon. a player with 8 VR14s will get 70 points for every toon he has. if a player only has one VR14 toon, why in the hell would he bother leveling new toons just for character points when the XP gain is much higher in veteran content. "I like getting over 100 points per kill, but damn that level 1 toon getting 1 point per kill looks really tempting". WHAAT? also keep in mind a player with one VR14 over the last year has already proven he has no interest in leveling alts. this is really, all in your heads.

stop nit picking there is no perfect answer for the transition to the champion system, atleast ZOS has made an effort to compromise on a conversion that is about as fair as possible

Kraven · January 2015

ebls_BR wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

About being unfair to people with multiple V14's, it never mattered to the strength of the character in-game how many characters the player had "on the bench". So compensating for all of them would create a power difference where none existed before and that nobody had reason to anticipate (not even after the announcement of the CP system).

The primary reason of the whole discussion here is not being more or less strong. That, has no importance to me. For instance, I developed 5 VR14 toons in different factions (2 AD, 2 EP and 1 DC), for one and sole reason: to play with all my friends. Actually, the first time I went to Cyrodiil, I already had two VR14... Neither I developed 5 VR14 to acquire more or less CP at the transition. The whole point here is to have what you deserve by your own effort and time investment.

I'll give an example of how bad this choice is for someone like me. As I've said, I have 5 VR14, by completing quests (Cadwell's Silver and Gold and Craglorn), dungeons, pledges, destroying multiple times Dark Anchors and World Bosses, etc. Yes, with one of them (an EP toon), I "grinded" in Craglorn; then this toon still is in Greenshade doing Cadwell's Gold quests. This character, my last VR14 (and the less developed of all of my VR14), have at the moment, almost 7000 achievements points and is already Undaunted 8 ...

As for the others toons, well..., I have two with more than 10k achievements, finished DSA Veteran, 250 Dark Anchors (Enemy of Coldharbor and Daedric Lord Slayer titles) and they are Undaunted 9... (with one of them I've never played in Cyrodiil...), and I have at least 3 toons without any Cadwell's Silver and Gold quests to do (yep, I finished everything, including side quests).

When the system change, How will I have to acquire CP with these toons? Since I'll have less opportunity to acquire my CP (don't have quests to turn or do), I'll have to do something that I always hated: grinding.

Since it is account wide you have 70 points to spend on all five of your V14s. Meaning each and every V14 of yours is even with each and every V14 in the game, Otherwise you're looking at you getting 350 points to spend on each and every V14 some with eight V14 would be getting 560 points to spend on each and every V14.

Vet14 is Vet14, I have absolutely no issue at all with V14s all being on equal footing with 1.6 release. I did have an issue with a brand new V1 being on the exact same footing as someone with multiple vets or even one V14.

As for content to gain xp for CP with, you have the exact same content as every other V14 out there. If you want to earn xp for gold and silver again toward CP then you are dependent upon an alt just like every other V14 who already did gold and silver.

Good news. Vet ranks still exist in 1.6, so those of us with V14 will be earning CP by doing the stuff we already are doing, DSA and Trials etc. You have time between 1.6 and the removal of vet ranks to earn CP from endgame content where a V1 is slightly more limited.

EQBallzz · January 2015

Muizer wrote: »

About being unfair to people with multiple V14's, it never mattered to the strength of the character in-game how many characters the player had "on the bench". So compensating for all of them would create a power difference where none existed before and that nobody had reason to anticipate (not even after the announcement of the CP system).

That's an interesting point except for the fact that ZOS knew this ahead of announcing this system and ahead of telling people to "keep playing your progress is being tracked" so that doesn't really excuse it. It also doesn't address the issue of lost non-repeatable content that is an XP-rich activity and doesn't address that fact that a newer player will indeed get power from their "benched" characters who had not wasted all their content. So if a new player gets this additional "power" from alts (as you put it) then why wouldn't existing players?

randolphbenoit · January 2015

The script is not an addon, its part of the default game.

/script d(GetUnitXP("player"))

Typing this (exactly as above) in game chat window will return the total amount of XP your character has earned.

Shows XP ok but not toons with Vet Points...

Sharee · January 2015

randolphbenoit wrote: »

The script is not an addon, its part of the default game.

/script d(GetUnitXP("player"))

Typing this (exactly as above) in game chat window will return the total amount of XP your character has earned.

Shows XP ok but not toons with Vet Points...

I am not sure what you mean by that. Veteran points were removed last patch, all you get now is XP. And the command does shows the XP for my veteran rank 14 NB.

glak · January 2015

randolphbenoit wrote: »

The script is not an addon, its part of the default game.

/script d(GetUnitXP("player"))

Typing this (exactly as above) in game chat window will return the total amount of XP your character has earned.

Shows XP ok but not toons with Vet Points...

Sounds non intuitive but did you try this with your vr14?

/script d(GetUnitVeteranPoints("player"))
/script d(GetUnitVeteranPointsMax("player"))