Feedback to the Champion System

Jaxsun

Komma wrote: »

Earned CP's on your account = 70

characters..

1. vr14 earned 70 can spend 70
2. vr1 earned 0 can spend 70
3. lvl 3 earned 0 can spend 70
4. lvl 3 earned 0 can spend 70
5. lvl 10 earned 0 can spend 70
6. not created yet earned 0 can spend 70 when created
7. same as 6
8. same as 6

Isn't it just this simple.

I believe this to be the intent, but the verbage they're using is confusing.

Ahdora

Jaxsun wrote: »

Komma wrote: »

Earned CP's on your account = 70

characters..

1. vr14 earned 70 can spend 70
2. vr1 earned 0 can spend 70
3. lvl 3 earned 0 can spend 70
4. lvl 3 earned 0 can spend 70
5. lvl 10 earned 0 can spend 70
6. not created yet earned 0 can spend 70 when created
7. same as 6
8. same as 6

Isn't it just this simple.

I believe this to be the intent, but the verbage they're using is confusing.

Look a few posts up for a response from Gina

haidlir1983

This is exactly why i love ESO, not only because the game itself, Zenimax actually "LISTEN" what the players have to say and more important, they "DO" something to make us happy.

"Thanks Zenimax for make this awesome game and the continuous improvements"

Elsonso

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

First, thanks for all the information and answers to questions and the clarification you are doing.

It does not sound like the player account needs to be active in order to get the CP for previously leveled Veteran characters. At any time after Update 6 goes live, activating the account and logging in will reward these CP.

I had a question about Veteran Rank progression after Update 6. Prior to the removal of VR, will characters continue to advance in Rank even as they earn CP?

Milf_Hero

@Zos_GinaBruno , Soooo, im still a little confused. confused by everything and not just a little really. lol. Uh, say you only have one vr14 character. he is way past the vr14 xp wise. Will that character get just 70? Even if that character may have earned enough xp to level x amount of characters to vr14? Basically, ive been happy with one character. Been playing em ever since the beginning. I don't wanna be behind 30 or more points for being happy with my main.

JKorr

Voodoo wrote: »

Yay! No more crying in the forums!

There isn't a LOL large enough for me to give this one.

Of course there will be crying in the forums. Ranting, lamentations, and wailing, too, for that matter. No matter what is said/done/changed/revamped, there will ALWAYS be crying on the forums.

Morshire

***_Hero wrote: »

@Zos_GinaBruno , Soooo, im still a little confused. confused by everything and not just a little really. lol. Uh, say you only have one vr14 character. he is way past the vr14 xp wise. Will that character get just 70? Even if that character may have earned enough xp to level x amount of characters to vr14? Basically, ive been happy with one character. Been playing em ever since the beginning. I don't wanna be behind 30 or more points for being happy with my main.

Here is the statement from Gina in the original post @***_Hero. Hope it helps.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*] Champion Points are shared across all characters as the system is account wide, but for the conversion of XP to Champion Points, no more than 70 Champion Points will be given to an account.
[*] A VR14 character can receive up to 70 Champion Points depending on how much XP into VR14 they are, but 70 is the maximum the conversion system will give out for the account.

Aztlan

This was an excellent compromise, and I heartily approve, even though I am not one of those people who will get the full 70 points.

I don't know if this has already been said, but think of it this way. XP is not the best indicator of time spent in game. I have leveled my VR7 slowly--exploring, reading quests, reading books--and so even though I have spent more than enough time online to reach VR14, I'm not there yet. In view of this, I like that there is some cap in place, so that people who have been rushing through the game and piling up XP will not have too much of an advantage over me and my playstyle. However, I also understand that people with VR14s (or multiple VR14s) should be rewarded for their efforts, and so I am fine with the idea that they will get more champion points at the start than me. Like I said, a good compromise.

Thank you ZOS!

Milf_Hero

Morshire wrote: »

***_Hero wrote: »

@Zos_GinaBruno , Soooo, im still a little confused. confused by everything and not just a little really. lol. Uh, say you only have one vr14 character. he is way past the vr14 xp wise. Will that character get just 70? Even if that character may have earned enough xp to level x amount of characters to vr14? Basically, ive been happy with one character. Been playing em ever since the beginning. I don't wanna be behind 30 or more points for being happy with my main.

Here is the statement from Gina in the original post @***_Hero. Hope it helps.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*] Champion Points are shared across all characters as the system is account wide, but for the conversion of XP to Champion Points, no more than 70 Champion Points will be given to an account.
[*] A VR14 character can receive up to 70 Champion Points depending on how much XP into VR14 they are, but 70 is the maximum the conversion system will give out for the account.

Oh w8. I think.. im starting to get it. The max is 70 points now, not 30, no matter how many vr14s ya have. 1 vr14 could get you the full 70? Ha. Then no problem. More possible points from the start of the system. No biggie. haha. Thanks @Morshire. You get an awesome from me as well. Which is not easy to do. I lied. Its pretty easy to do. But don't let that diminish its worth.

Lilarna

This is great new ! Thanks

BeNashty

This is trash and the the only voices heard were the less dedicated that didn't put time in to farm. If you tell us that you are tracking our xp and tell us of this awesome champion system coming out, you cant just tell me all that time i put in on my V14 character just went to waste....Your shafting your dedicated members who put a lot of time in, and rewarding those who play less...this is the wrong direction...

Milf_Hero

BeNashty wrote: »

This is trash and the the only voices heard were the less dedicated that didn't put time in to farm. If you tell us that you are tracking our xp and tell us of this awesome champion system coming out, you cant just tell me all that time i put in on my V14 character just went to waste....Your shafting your dedicated members who put a lot of time in, and rewarding those who play less...this is the wrong direction...

Well, who said you should have farmed? lol. They just said keep playing.. correct? You chose to make several vr14 characters or play one character a lot to grind xp for points that didn't even exist yet... You can or should be able to tell how they "promise" things. So, its a gambling game. Sometimes you win, some times your lose. Not all an be winners But all are liable to be losers. Cuz in the end, House wins. Your money that is.

themizario

In the last example of from @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ where you log on to your lowbie and earn champion points. Let's say you log on your vr2 start off with one CP. Week goes by and you grind to vr14 earning a total of 14 CP then you log on to your main vr14 for the first time in a week do you then get the 70 CP?

Effectively having 84 cp

Morshire

themizario wrote: »

In the last example of from @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ where you log on to your lowbie and earn champion points. Let's say you log on your vr2 start off with one CP. Week goes by and you grind to vr14 earning a total of 14 CP then you log on to your main vr14 for the first time in a week do you then get the 70 CP?

Effectively having 84 cp

When 1.6 goes live, all VR characters that log in will claim said CP UP TO 70CP. All this info I am grabbing is from the topic. I know it is long, but just reading it will get most of this answered. The CP you gain from leveling after the release will also accumulate on top of the 70. I am not sure how I can chop Gina's statement up to show that too, but it is there.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]•If you have multiple Veteran Rank characters, you will receive credit for each Veteran Rank upon logging into each character (provided the account has not reached 70 Champion Points given out in the conversion).

Sorry edited to say yes.

Sacadon

Yes huge appreciation for ZOS on this one.

FWIW the new DAI has had a bug for several weeks now that keeps you in battle music and you cannot hear anything else, very impactful... And they've done and said almost nothing about it.

I still think ZOS can improve, but I'm grateful more than anything else.

Oolou

Thanks for the announcement and for taking into account the feedback.

Gidorick

I was grinding to VR1 to try to get there before 1.6 to make sure I was able to take advantage of the 30 CPs... but I guess I can stop. I seriously doubt I'll be able to get to a high enough VR rank to get any of the pool of 70 CPs.

Although this isn't good for me I think the change is fair. Reward those that have played more for sure. I'll just earn CP points when I finally get to them.

Tonnopesce

GREAT JOB ZOS

But i want moooore moooore ch points........ gimme my precius.........

Fetaro

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Points from the conversion pool can only be claimed by characters that exist prior to Update 6, but once those points are claimed, they move into an account-wide Champion pool that can be used by any character (no matter when they were created). We'll edit the first post to clarify.

For me, it's not clear. At first, I understood that those 70 points wouldn't be used by new characters.

What I'm understanding from this precision :
- Points earned by the conversion are available for ALL the characters, no matter when they are created, once they are unlocked
- The conversion will only apply to prior characters.

Morshire

Meaning they can only be claimed by VR characters that are VR at live. However, when they are claimed, they go to the account and all future toons can use them. So kind of like how all your lower level, or future, toons are teenagers waiting outside the liquor store, but can't go in. So the older brother,(VR toon) takes the money, gets the beer, and then shares with all the youngsters. You can only get up to 70CP at launch for the VR levels. So, you have to log the VR toon to collect, but then they go into the account and all your characters have access to said total. All future points are earned and they too go into the account for all your toons. Hope that helped.

DanielMaxwell

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hello everyone,

It’s normal in development to change how a system is going to be implemented from its original design. When we talk about designs early, we do so in order to get feedback and give you some insight to the direction we're taking. However, it's likely there may be changes along the way as we perform tests internally. Still, there is value in putting information out early.

Late last month, we announced changes to our original design for the Champion System, and provided a fairly thorough explanation as to why we decided to do this. Of specific concern was the conversion system of XP to Champion Points. What we had decided was if you had at least one Veteran Rank character, you would get a total of 30 Champion Points for your account. The Veteran Rank wouldn’t matter; all players with at least one Veteran character would get the same amount of Champion Points. We received a lot of feedback about these changes. Most of it centered around the concern that higher ranked Veteran characters were losing progress in the Champion System because they would have less opportunity to earn Champion Points, having already done a substantial amount of content.

Based off this feedback, we will be altering the conversion system with the following design:

• Any Veteran Rank character that logs in after the system goes live will get 5 Champion Points added to the account for each full Veteran Rank that character has achieved.
  • Partial credit will be given for XP earned within a Veteran Rank. This is based on a fraction of the total XP contained within the level. One Veteran Rank is currently 1,000,000XP, so the conversion system will grant you one Champion Point for every 200,000XP within a Veteran Rank.
  • For example, if you are Veteran Rank 12 and have 800,000XP progress towards Veteran Rank 13, you will receive 59 Champion Points after the system goes live.
    • EXTREMELY IMPORTANT: Only the conversion system will use 200,000XP for one Champion Point the day the system goes live in Update 6. This is not what it will take to earn a Champion Point while playing normally once the Champion System is live.
  • It is possible that a Veteran Rank 1 character may not have earned 200,000XP into Veteran Rank 1. In this case, you will not receive a Champion Point after the system goes live.
• Champion Points are shared across all characters as the system is account wide, but for the conversion of XP to Champion Points, no more than 70 Champion Points will be given to an account.
• A VR14 character can receive up to 70 Champion Points depending on how much XP into VR14 they are, but 70 is the maximum the conversion system will give out for the account.
• If you have multiple Veteran Rank characters, you will receive credit for each Veteran Rank upon logging into each character (provided the account has not reached 70 Champion Points given out in the conversion).
• Only currently existing characters created before Update 6 goes live are eligible to claim points from the conversion pool. Once they are claimed, they will move into an account-wide Champion pool that all characters can use. You must have at least one Veteran Rank character in order to receive Champion Points from this conversion pool to your account.
• The 70 Champion Points from the conversion pool will never get more points added to it - only subtracted. If there’s a situation where you don’t use up all 70 points once the system is live, they will never be used since this only applies to characters you have preceding Update 6.
  • For example, if you have just one fresh VR4 character in your account, you’ll receive 15 Champion Points from the conversion after you log in. You will never be able to use the remaining 55 Points since it only applies to pre-existing characters prior to Update 6.

We know this may be confusing at first glance so to make sure everyone understands, we’d like to provide a few additional examples:

1. You have one full VR14 character and one VR6 character that hasn’t earned any XP when the system goes live. You log in with the VR14 first and are granted 70 Champion Points from the conversion. You log in later with your VR6, and are able to use 70 Champion Points due to them being account wide.
2. You have just one VR5 character with 400,000XP toward the next Veteran Rank. When you log in, you are granted 22 Champion Points from the conversion. After you spend your points, you immediately create a new character. That character does not get any Champion Points from the conversion, but can use the 22 Champion Points from the account pool.
3. Here’s a complicated one: You have one fresh VR14, one VR6 with 800,000XP toward the next Veteran Rank, one new VR3 character, and one level 25 character. You log in with the VR6 first and receive 29 Champion Points from the conversion. Then you log in with your VR3 and receive 10 Champion Points from the conversion; you now have 39 points in your account to use. You log in with your level 25 and don’t receive any new points from the conversion, but are able to use the 39 points from the account. Finally, you log in with your VR14 and are granted 31 additional Champion Points from the conversion, since you can only receive a total of 70 Champion Points from the conversion.
4. You have one full VR14 character and one new VR4 character. You log in with your VR4 and receive 15 Champion Points. You begin to quest and play for a while, and receive 3 more Champion Points throughout your session. Later, you log in with your VR14. You receive 55 Points from the conversion, and are able to use 73 Champion Points – 70 from the total conversion, and 3 from the earlier play session. You play with this character for a while, and receive 2 more Champion Points from normal play. You now have 75 Champion Points in your account. Later, you start a new character; that character can use 75 Champion Points immediately.

Once again, we’d like to thank everyone for your feedback. We believe the system outlined above still meets our goals for the initial rollout of the Champion System while also addressing some of the more pressing concerns.

Edit: Adjusted the wording of one bullet point for clarity.

My opinion

This decision is just as bad as the Oct 3 promise .

Rewarding players twice for running content once is just a bad precedent to introduce into the game , since once it is done then some players will expect it to be done with every new system or expansion pack witch would remove the illusion of casual players being able to catch up to hardcore players (casual and hardcore based more on time spent progressing characters) and without that illusion the larger group of casual players will start leaving the game .

you receive rewards for progressing through character progression system A* , the further you advance the stronger your character becomes , you earn these rewards by gaining xp from repeatable and non-repeatable content . When that xp is then used to progress your character in a new system(or one that is extended to have further progression in it) that is added after those XP are earned you are then being rewarded twice for running the content once . this is regardless of whether or not they are removing or extending that system .


*=in this case the veteran ranks system.


What ZOS is doing is akin to a sports league stating that every team that makes the post season will receive a credit of 1 victory in the next season plus each victory gained during the post season will also be added to their victory totals in the next season also.

TheEmoVampire

wow okay so now I'm not as excited for this champion system at all. If I recall correctly one of the purposes of this system was to balance all lv but higher vr have a slight advantage. They now have more than such and if future updates are going to be ruined by other players I can see myself giving this game up in the future. Seriously just because someone is max doesnt mean their thuun should be more powerful.most of the VR 14 probably grinded on a lot of mobs. [snip] Its already a struggle just for me to play with the low frames lack of contoller support and now this [snip] ZOS!!! I onece thought that ZOS wasn't like other companies, but this proves they are. I mean seriously how hard would be to just have a minimum of 30 points at vr1 and up to 70 at vr 14 that would've at least given it some balnce . that actually seems better than saying oh instead 100 dollars here's 1 cause that's exactly what they are doing here.

[edited for conspiracy theory & profanity bypass]

EQBallzz

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hello everyone,

It’s normal in development to change how a system is going to be implemented from its original design. When we talk about designs early, we do so in order to get feedback and give you some insight to the direction we're taking. However, it's likely there may be changes along the way as we perform tests internally. Still, there is value in putting information out early.

Late last month, we announced changes to our original design for the Champion System, and provided a fairly thorough explanation as to why we decided to do this. Of specific concern was the conversion system of XP to Champion Points. What we had decided was if you had at least one Veteran Rank character, you would get a total of 30 Champion Points for your account. The Veteran Rank wouldn’t matter; all players with at least one Veteran character would get the same amount of Champion Points. We received a lot of feedback about these changes. Most of it centered around the concern that higher ranked Veteran characters were losing progress in the Champion System because they would have less opportunity to earn Champion Points, having already done a substantial amount of content.

Based off this feedback, we will be altering the conversion system with the following design:

• Any Veteran Rank character that logs in after the system goes live will get 5 Champion Points added to the account for each full Veteran Rank that character has achieved.
  • Partial credit will be given for XP earned within a Veteran Rank. This is based on a fraction of the total XP contained within the level. One Veteran Rank is currently 1,000,000XP, so the conversion system will grant you one Champion Point for every 200,000XP within a Veteran Rank.
  • For example, if you are Veteran Rank 12 and have 800,000XP progress towards Veteran Rank 13, you will receive 59 Champion Points after the system goes live.
    • EXTREMELY IMPORTANT: Only the conversion system will use 200,000XP for one Champion Point the day the system goes live in Update 6. This is not what it will take to earn a Champion Point while playing normally once the Champion System is live.
  • It is possible that a Veteran Rank 1 character may not have earned 200,000XP into Veteran Rank 1. In this case, you will not receive a Champion Point after the system goes live.
• Champion Points are shared across all characters as the system is account wide, but for the conversion of XP to Champion Points, no more than 70 Champion Points will be given to an account.
• A VR14 character can receive up to 70 Champion Points depending on how much XP into VR14 they are, but 70 is the maximum the conversion system will give out for the account.
• If you have multiple Veteran Rank characters, you will receive credit for each Veteran Rank upon logging into each character (provided the account has not reached 70 Champion Points given out in the conversion).
• Only currently existing characters created before Update 6 goes live are eligible to claim points from the conversion pool. Once they are claimed, they will move into an account-wide Champion pool that all characters can use. You must have at least one Veteran Rank character in order to receive Champion Points from this conversion pool to your account.
• The 70 Champion Points from the conversion pool will never get more points added to it - only subtracted. If there’s a situation where you don’t use up all 70 points once the system is live, they will never be used since this only applies to characters you have preceding Update 6.
  • For example, if you have just one fresh VR4 character in your account, you’ll receive 15 Champion Points from the conversion after you log in. You will never be able to use the remaining 55 Points since it only applies to pre-existing characters prior to Update 6.

We know this may be confusing at first glance so to make sure everyone understands, we’d like to provide a few additional examples:

1. You have one full VR14 character and one VR6 character that hasn’t earned any XP when the system goes live. You log in with the VR14 first and are granted 70 Champion Points from the conversion. You log in later with your VR6, and are able to use 70 Champion Points due to them being account wide.
2. You have just one VR5 character with 400,000XP toward the next Veteran Rank. When you log in, you are granted 22 Champion Points from the conversion. After you spend your points, you immediately create a new character. That character does not get any Champion Points from the conversion, but can use the 22 Champion Points from the account pool.
3. Here’s a complicated one: You have one fresh VR14, one VR6 with 800,000XP toward the next Veteran Rank, one new VR3 character, and one level 25 character. You log in with the VR6 first and receive 29 Champion Points from the conversion. Then you log in with your VR3 and receive 10 Champion Points from the conversion; you now have 39 points in your account to use. You log in with your level 25 and don’t receive any new points from the conversion, but are able to use the 39 points from the account. Finally, you log in with your VR14 and are granted 31 additional Champion Points from the conversion, since you can only receive a total of 70 Champion Points from the conversion.
4. You have one full VR14 character and one new VR4 character. You log in with your VR4 and receive 15 Champion Points. You begin to quest and play for a while, and receive 3 more Champion Points throughout your session. Later, you log in with your VR14. You receive 55 Points from the conversion, and are able to use 73 Champion Points – 70 from the total conversion, and 3 from the earlier play session. You play with this character for a while, and receive 2 more Champion Points from normal play. You now have 75 Champion Points in your account. Later, you start a new character; that character can use 75 Champion Points immediately.

Once again, we’d like to thank everyone for your feedback. We believe the system outlined above still meets our goals for the initial rollout of the Champion System while also addressing some of the more pressing concerns.

Edit: Adjusted the wording of one bullet point for clarity.

My opinion

This decision is just as bad as the Oct 3 promise .

Rewarding players twice for running content once is just a bad precedent to introduce into the game , since once it is done then some players will expect it to be done with every new system or expansion pack witch would remove the illusion of casual players being able to catch up to hardcore players (casual and hardcore based more on time spent progressing characters) and without that illusion the larger group of casual players will start leaving the game .

you receive rewards for progressing through character progression system A* , the further you advance the stronger your character becomes , you earn these rewards by gaining xp from repeatable and non-repeatable content . When that xp is then used to progress your character in a new system(or one that is extended to have further progression in it) that is added after those XP are earned you are then being rewarded twice for running the content once . this is regardless of whether or not they are removing or extending that system .


*=in this case the veteran ranks system.


What ZOS is doing is akin to a sports league stating that every team that makes the post season will receive a credit of 1 victory in the next season plus each victory gained during the post season will also be added to their victory totals in the next season also.

I have no idea what planet you're on but you keep saying this statement about being rewarded twice for doing the content once. That makes literally no sense. Vet levels are going away. The CP they are allotting is going to reimburse or in some cases only partially reimburse the progress being taken away. If anything, those with multiple vet characters are doing the content twice (or more) and only getting rewarded once. l2logic.

shiva7663

I was told there would be no math questions (snicker).

DanielMaxwell

shiva7663 wrote: »

I was told there would be no math questions (snicker).

That was good for a laugh

ZOS_ShannonM

Hey folks,
We have removed some comments from this thread for breaking the Forum Code of Conduct.
We just want to remind you to stay on topic and civil when posting.
Thanks for understanding.

Ahdora

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hello everyone,

It’s normal in development to change how a system is going to be implemented from its original design. When we talk about designs early, we do so in order to get feedback and give you some insight to the direction we're taking. However, it's likely there may be changes along the way as we perform tests internally. Still, there is value in putting information out early.

Late last month, we announced changes to our original design for the Champion System, and provided a fairly thorough explanation as to why we decided to do this. Of specific concern was the conversion system of XP to Champion Points. What we had decided was if you had at least one Veteran Rank character, you would get a total of 30 Champion Points for your account. The Veteran Rank wouldn’t matter; all players with at least one Veteran character would get the same amount of Champion Points. We received a lot of feedback about these changes. Most of it centered around the concern that higher ranked Veteran characters were losing progress in the Champion System because they would have less opportunity to earn Champion Points, having already done a substantial amount of content.

Based off this feedback, we will be altering the conversion system with the following design:

• Any Veteran Rank character that logs in after the system goes live will get 5 Champion Points added to the account for each full Veteran Rank that character has achieved.
  • Partial credit will be given for XP earned within a Veteran Rank. This is based on a fraction of the total XP contained within the level. One Veteran Rank is currently 1,000,000XP, so the conversion system will grant you one Champion Point for every 200,000XP within a Veteran Rank.
  • For example, if you are Veteran Rank 12 and have 800,000XP progress towards Veteran Rank 13, you will receive 59 Champion Points after the system goes live.
    • EXTREMELY IMPORTANT: Only the conversion system will use 200,000XP for one Champion Point the day the system goes live in Update 6. This is not what it will take to earn a Champion Point while playing normally once the Champion System is live.
  • It is possible that a Veteran Rank 1 character may not have earned 200,000XP into Veteran Rank 1. In this case, you will not receive a Champion Point after the system goes live.
• Champion Points are shared across all characters as the system is account wide, but for the conversion of XP to Champion Points, no more than 70 Champion Points will be given to an account.
• A VR14 character can receive up to 70 Champion Points depending on how much XP into VR14 they are, but 70 is the maximum the conversion system will give out for the account.
• If you have multiple Veteran Rank characters, you will receive credit for each Veteran Rank upon logging into each character (provided the account has not reached 70 Champion Points given out in the conversion).
• Only currently existing characters created before Update 6 goes live are eligible to claim points from the conversion pool. Once they are claimed, they will move into an account-wide Champion pool that all characters can use. You must have at least one Veteran Rank character in order to receive Champion Points from this conversion pool to your account.
• The 70 Champion Points from the conversion pool will never get more points added to it - only subtracted. If there’s a situation where you don’t use up all 70 points once the system is live, they will never be used since this only applies to characters you have preceding Update 6.
  • For example, if you have just one fresh VR4 character in your account, you’ll receive 15 Champion Points from the conversion after you log in. You will never be able to use the remaining 55 Points since it only applies to pre-existing characters prior to Update 6.

We know this may be confusing at first glance so to make sure everyone understands, we’d like to provide a few additional examples:

1. You have one full VR14 character and one VR6 character that hasn’t earned any XP when the system goes live. You log in with the VR14 first and are granted 70 Champion Points from the conversion. You log in later with your VR6, and are able to use 70 Champion Points due to them being account wide.
2. You have just one VR5 character with 400,000XP toward the next Veteran Rank. When you log in, you are granted 22 Champion Points from the conversion. After you spend your points, you immediately create a new character. That character does not get any Champion Points from the conversion, but can use the 22 Champion Points from the account pool.
3. Here’s a complicated one: You have one fresh VR14, one VR6 with 800,000XP toward the next Veteran Rank, one new VR3 character, and one level 25 character. You log in with the VR6 first and receive 29 Champion Points from the conversion. Then you log in with your VR3 and receive 10 Champion Points from the conversion; you now have 39 points in your account to use. You log in with your level 25 and don’t receive any new points from the conversion, but are able to use the 39 points from the account. Finally, you log in with your VR14 and are granted 31 additional Champion Points from the conversion, since you can only receive a total of 70 Champion Points from the conversion.
4. You have one full VR14 character and one new VR4 character. You log in with your VR4 and receive 15 Champion Points. You begin to quest and play for a while, and receive 3 more Champion Points throughout your session. Later, you log in with your VR14. You receive 55 Points from the conversion, and are able to use 73 Champion Points – 70 from the total conversion, and 3 from the earlier play session. You play with this character for a while, and receive 2 more Champion Points from normal play. You now have 75 Champion Points in your account. Later, you start a new character; that character can use 75 Champion Points immediately.

Once again, we’d like to thank everyone for your feedback. We believe the system outlined above still meets our goals for the initial rollout of the Champion System while also addressing some of the more pressing concerns.

Edit: Adjusted the wording of one bullet point for clarity.

My opinion

This decision is just as bad as the Oct 3 promise .

Rewarding players twice for running content once is just a bad precedent to introduce into the game , since once it is done then some players will expect it to be done with every new system or expansion pack witch would remove the illusion of casual players being able to catch up to hardcore players (casual and hardcore based more on time spent progressing characters) and without that illusion the larger group of casual players will start leaving the game .

you receive rewards for progressing through character progression system A* , the further you advance the stronger your character becomes , you earn these rewards by gaining xp from repeatable and non-repeatable content . When that xp is then used to progress your character in a new system(or one that is extended to have further progression in it) that is added after those XP are earned you are then being rewarded twice for running the content once . this is regardless of whether or not they are removing or extending that system .


*=in this case the veteran ranks system.


What ZOS is doing is akin to a sports league stating that every team that makes the post season will receive a credit of 1 victory in the next season plus each victory gained during the post season will also be added to their victory totals in the next season also.

I have no idea what planet you're on but you keep saying this statement about being rewarded twice for doing the content once. That makes literally no sense. Vet levels are going away. The CP they are allotting is going to reimburse or in some cases only partially reimburse the progress being taken away. If anything, those with multiple vet characters are doing the content twice (or more) and only getting rewarded once. l2logic.

[snip]

But the person that you quoted is correct. This isn't a second reward, at all. It's compensation for what will taken away in the next phase of CS implementation.

[edited to remove quote]

EQBallzz

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

DanielMaxwell wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hello everyone,

It’s normal in development to change how a system is going to be implemented from its original design. When we talk about designs early, we do so in order to get feedback and give you some insight to the direction we're taking. However, it's likely there may be changes along the way as we perform tests internally. Still, there is value in putting information out early.

Late last month, we announced changes to our original design for the Champion System, and provided a fairly thorough explanation as to why we decided to do this. Of specific concern was the conversion system of XP to Champion Points. What we had decided was if you had at least one Veteran Rank character, you would get a total of 30 Champion Points for your account. The Veteran Rank wouldn’t matter; all players with at least one Veteran character would get the same amount of Champion Points. We received a lot of feedback about these changes. Most of it centered around the concern that higher ranked Veteran characters were losing progress in the Champion System because they would have less opportunity to earn Champion Points, having already done a substantial amount of content.

Based off this feedback, we will be altering the conversion system with the following design:

• Any Veteran Rank character that logs in after the system goes live will get 5 Champion Points added to the account for each full Veteran Rank that character has achieved.
  • Partial credit will be given for XP earned within a Veteran Rank. This is based on a fraction of the total XP contained within the level. One Veteran Rank is currently 1,000,000XP, so the conversion system will grant you one Champion Point for every 200,000XP within a Veteran Rank.
  • For example, if you are Veteran Rank 12 and have 800,000XP progress towards Veteran Rank 13, you will receive 59 Champion Points after the system goes live.
    • EXTREMELY IMPORTANT: Only the conversion system will use 200,000XP for one Champion Point the day the system goes live in Update 6. This is not what it will take to earn a Champion Point while playing normally once the Champion System is live.
  • It is possible that a Veteran Rank 1 character may not have earned 200,000XP into Veteran Rank 1. In this case, you will not receive a Champion Point after the system goes live.
• Champion Points are shared across all characters as the system is account wide, but for the conversion of XP to Champion Points, no more than 70 Champion Points will be given to an account.
• A VR14 character can receive up to 70 Champion Points depending on how much XP into VR14 they are, but 70 is the maximum the conversion system will give out for the account.
• If you have multiple Veteran Rank characters, you will receive credit for each Veteran Rank upon logging into each character (provided the account has not reached 70 Champion Points given out in the conversion).
• Only currently existing characters created before Update 6 goes live are eligible to claim points from the conversion pool. Once they are claimed, they will move into an account-wide Champion pool that all characters can use. You must have at least one Veteran Rank character in order to receive Champion Points from this conversion pool to your account.
• The 70 Champion Points from the conversion pool will never get more points added to it - only subtracted. If there’s a situation where you don’t use up all 70 points once the system is live, they will never be used since this only applies to characters you have preceding Update 6.
  • For example, if you have just one fresh VR4 character in your account, you’ll receive 15 Champion Points from the conversion after you log in. You will never be able to use the remaining 55 Points since it only applies to pre-existing characters prior to Update 6.

We know this may be confusing at first glance so to make sure everyone understands, we’d like to provide a few additional examples:

1. You have one full VR14 character and one VR6 character that hasn’t earned any XP when the system goes live. You log in with the VR14 first and are granted 70 Champion Points from the conversion. You log in later with your VR6, and are able to use 70 Champion Points due to them being account wide.
2. You have just one VR5 character with 400,000XP toward the next Veteran Rank. When you log in, you are granted 22 Champion Points from the conversion. After you spend your points, you immediately create a new character. That character does not get any Champion Points from the conversion, but can use the 22 Champion Points from the account pool.
3. Here’s a complicated one: You have one fresh VR14, one VR6 with 800,000XP toward the next Veteran Rank, one new VR3 character, and one level 25 character. You log in with the VR6 first and receive 29 Champion Points from the conversion. Then you log in with your VR3 and receive 10 Champion Points from the conversion; you now have 39 points in your account to use. You log in with your level 25 and don’t receive any new points from the conversion, but are able to use the 39 points from the account. Finally, you log in with your VR14 and are granted 31 additional Champion Points from the conversion, since you can only receive a total of 70 Champion Points from the conversion.
4. You have one full VR14 character and one new VR4 character. You log in with your VR4 and receive 15 Champion Points. You begin to quest and play for a while, and receive 3 more Champion Points throughout your session. Later, you log in with your VR14. You receive 55 Points from the conversion, and are able to use 73 Champion Points – 70 from the total conversion, and 3 from the earlier play session. You play with this character for a while, and receive 2 more Champion Points from normal play. You now have 75 Champion Points in your account. Later, you start a new character; that character can use 75 Champion Points immediately.

Once again, we’d like to thank everyone for your feedback. We believe the system outlined above still meets our goals for the initial rollout of the Champion System while also addressing some of the more pressing concerns.

Edit: Adjusted the wording of one bullet point for clarity.

My opinion

This decision is just as bad as the Oct 3 promise .

Rewarding players twice for running content once is just a bad precedent to introduce into the game , since once it is done then some players will expect it to be done with every new system or expansion pack witch would remove the illusion of casual players being able to catch up to hardcore players (casual and hardcore based more on time spent progressing characters) and without that illusion the larger group of casual players will start leaving the game .

you receive rewards for progressing through character progression system A* , the further you advance the stronger your character becomes , you earn these rewards by gaining xp from repeatable and non-repeatable content . When that xp is then used to progress your character in a new system(or one that is extended to have further progression in it) that is added after those XP are earned you are then being rewarded twice for running the content once . this is regardless of whether or not they are removing or extending that system .


*=in this case the veteran ranks system.


What ZOS is doing is akin to a sports league stating that every team that makes the post season will receive a credit of 1 victory in the next season plus each victory gained during the post season will also be added to their victory totals in the next season also.

I have no idea what planet you're on but you keep saying this statement about being rewarded twice for doing the content once. That makes literally no sense. Vet levels are going away. The CP they are allotting is going to reimburse or in some cases only partially reimburse the progress being taken away. If anything, those with multiple vet characters are doing the content twice (or more) and only getting rewarded once. l2logic.

[snip]

I did read it but honestly it's a bit rambling and hard to follow (no offense meant). In any event, it's not in any way rewarding people twice for doing something once. If anything, it's the reverse (but at least it's a compromise that is somewhat proportional to prior time/effort).

I wouldn't call it a Pyrrhic victory because that would mean it's a hollow victory which is incorrect. It's more of a victory for logic and reason and compromise than anything.

[edited to remove quote]

EQBallzz

Sharee wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hello everyone,

It’s normal in development to change how a system is going to be implemented from its original design. When we talk about designs early, we do so in order to get feedback and give you some insight to the direction we're taking. However, it's likely there may be changes along the way as we perform tests internally. Still, there is value in putting information out early.

Late last month, we announced changes to our original design for the Champion System, and provided a fairly thorough explanation as to why we decided to do this. Of specific concern was the conversion system of XP to Champion Points. What we had decided was if you had at least one Veteran Rank character, you would get a total of 30 Champion Points for your account. The Veteran Rank wouldn’t matter; all players with at least one Veteran character would get the same amount of Champion Points. We received a lot of feedback about these changes. Most of it centered around the concern that higher ranked Veteran characters were losing progress in the Champion System because they would have less opportunity to earn Champion Points, having already done a substantial amount of content.

Based off this feedback, we will be altering the conversion system with the following design:

• Any Veteran Rank character that logs in after the system goes live will get 5 Champion Points added to the account for each full Veteran Rank that character has achieved.
  • Partial credit will be given for XP earned within a Veteran Rank. This is based on a fraction of the total XP contained within the level. One Veteran Rank is currently 1,000,000XP, so the conversion system will grant you one Champion Point for every 200,000XP within a Veteran Rank.
  • For example, if you are Veteran Rank 12 and have 800,000XP progress towards Veteran Rank 13, you will receive 59 Champion Points after the system goes live.
    • EXTREMELY IMPORTANT: Only the conversion system will use 200,000XP for one Champion Point the day the system goes live in Update 6. This is not what it will take to earn a Champion Point while playing normally once the Champion System is live.
  • It is possible that a Veteran Rank 1 character may not have earned 200,000XP into Veteran Rank 1. In this case, you will not receive a Champion Point after the system goes live.
• Champion Points are shared across all characters as the system is account wide, but for the conversion of XP to Champion Points, no more than 70 Champion Points will be given to an account.
• A VR14 character can receive up to 70 Champion Points depending on how much XP into VR14 they are, but 70 is the maximum the conversion system will give out for the account.
• If you have multiple Veteran Rank characters, you will receive credit for each Veteran Rank upon logging into each character (provided the account has not reached 70 Champion Points given out in the conversion).
• Only currently existing characters created before Update 6 goes live are eligible to use points from the conversion pool. You must have at least one Veteran Rank character in order to receive Champion Points from this conversion pool to your account.
• The 70 Champion Points from the conversion pool will never get more points added to it - only subtracted. If there’s a situation where you don’t use up all 70 points once the system is live, they will never be used since this only applies to characters you have preceding Update 6.
  • For example, if you have just one fresh VR4 character in your account, you’ll receive 15 Champion Points from the conversion after you log in. You will never be able to use the remaining 55 Points since it only applies to pre-existing characters prior to Update 6.

We know this may be confusing at first glance so to make sure everyone understands, we’d like to provide a few additional examples:

1. You have one full VR14 character and one VR6 character that hasn’t earned any XP when the system goes live. You log in with the VR14 first and are granted 70 Champion Points from the conversion. You log in later with your VR6, and are able to use 70 Champion Points due to them being account wide.
2. You have just one VR5 character with 400,000XP toward the next Veteran Rank. When you log in, you are granted 22 Champion Points from the conversion. After you spend your points, you immediately create a new character. That character does not get any Champion Points from the conversion, but can use the 22 Champion Points from the account pool.
3. Here’s a complicated one: You have one fresh VR14, one VR6 with 800,000XP toward the next Veteran Rank, one new VR3 character, and one level 25 character. You log in with the VR6 first and receive 29 Champion Points from the conversion. Then you log in with your VR3 and receive 10 Champion Points from the conversion; you now have 39 points in your account to use. You log in with your level 25 and don’t receive any new points from the conversion, but are able to use the 39 points from the account. Finally, you log in with your VR14 and are granted 31 additional Champion Points from the conversion, since you can only receive a total of 70 Champion Points from the conversion.
4. You have one full VR14 character and one new VR4 character. You log in with your VR4 and receive 15 Champion Points. You begin to quest and play for a while, and receive 3 more Champion Points throughout your session. Later, you log in with your VR14. You receive 55 Points from the conversion, and are able to use 73 Champion Points – 70 from the total conversion, and 3 from the earlier play session. You play with this character for a while, and receive 2 more Champion Points from normal play. You now have 75 Champion Points in your account. Later, you start a new character; that character can use 75 Champion Points immediately.

Once again, we’d like to thank everyone for your feedback. We believe the system outlined above still meets our goals for the initial rollout of the Champion System while also addressing some of the more pressing concerns.

I must admit I don't like that change.

1. You caved in to the whiners, from now on they will always whine to make you change things others might like.
2. To give VR 14 players a 280 hour advantage doesn't sound right in my books. So now a VR 14 isn't only much stronger due his VR, but he will also have 280 hours of gameplay more than a VR 1 in PVP.

I felt giving the VR 14 30 CP was the right move, while VR 1 2CP.

The gap is just too big now, I don't see how this is good for a new system if several players have a 280 hour advantage over everyone else.

I also wonder how you will balance the difficulty between someone with 0 CP and those with 70 CP?

You should had stayed with the 30 CP, it felt right and justified to give VR 14 a 120 hour advantage as this is what it takes to get to VR 14. 280 is too much, sorry.

Look who's whining now? I guess now you don't get free stuff. That's really too bad for you. Try leveling up and playing the game instead!

You realize you are talking to someone who has been playing the game since release... right?

No I don't realize that because you make little sense. If you have already leveled up..you will get 70 CP like anyone else. If you haven't leveled up you still have all the content that everyone else did to get the 70 CP so just do that like everyone else did. In either case you have the same opportunity to get the CP as anyone. Contrast that to the previous system that just gave 30 CP to anyone even if they had not done 1 point of XP to earn it and still had all the content to work through. Now there is no more free stuff..as it should be.

Lancillotto

lol, thank you for the info Gina, but for sake of clarity, you should double check your math:

Any Veteran Rank character that logs in after the system goes live will get 5 Champion Points added to the account for each full Veteran Rank that character has achieved.

Partial credit will be given for XP earned within a Veteran Rank... the conversion system will grant you one Champion Point for every 200,000XP within a Veteran Rank.

For example, if you are Veteran Rank 12 and have 800,000XP progress towards Veteran Rank 13, you will receive 59 Champion Points after the system goes live.

it should be 64 CP

For example, if you have just one fresh VR4 character in your account, you’ll receive 15 Champion Points from the conversion after you log in.

it should be 20 CP

You have just one VR5 character with 400,000XP toward the next Veteran Rank. When you log in, you are granted 22 Champion Points from the conversion.

it should be 27 CP