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Feedback to the Champion System
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kelly.medleyb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Removing progress already achieved for some but not all is also "not how mmos work". Just sayin..
Agreed, what they are saying basically is OOPS we made it FAR to easy to level to max and now we have to reset this whole shin dig, oh and btw we made you pay for 9 mos of beta.
Then there's those who don't lose anything or lose very little telling us that have lost months of progress to quit complaining and take it.
Makes perfect sense.
I want my money back for the last 9 mos that will be 135$ please ZoS.
I will accept a guinea pig pet as compensation.
joleda4ub17_ESO wrote: »So people that exploited their way to vet levels, with multiple characters, right after launch, are being rewarded multiple times? Those of us that didn't take part in the Cyrodiil leveling fiasco, or one of the dozen other leveling exploits during launch...
You know what, forget it.
Yeah, I "exploited" by doing the main quest line all the way through multiple times taking my time and enjoying the game, thaaaat's it.
Oh yeah, there were people who were vet BEFORE launch because they had "beta tested" for over a year just to learn how to "exploit" the system and get max lvl asap then "pwn noobs" in AvA by exploiting Impulse/Batswarm. They were all AD guys. Those people have long since moved on.
I was NOT one of them. I didn't get my first vet till a week or so after launch because I took my time.
You know what, you have a good point though, ZoS should take away ALL vet ranks and give ZERO CP. That would be much more fair.
Oh and don't forget ZoS please make sure we all get our
Edited by kelly.medleyb14_ESO on January 17, 2015 6:39PM2 -
joleda4ub17_ESO✭✭✭kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »Removing progress already achieved for some but not all is also "not how mmos work". Just sayin..
Agreed, what they are saying basically is OOPS we made it FAR to easy to level to max and now we have to reset this whole shin dig, oh and btw we made you pay for 9 mos of beta.
Then there's those who don't lose anything or lose very little telling us that have lost months of progress to quit complaining and take it.
Makes perfect sense.
I want my money back for the last 9 mos that will be 135$ please ZoS.
I will accept a guinea pig pet as compensation.joleda4ub17_ESO wrote: »So people that exploited their way to vet levels, with multiple characters, right after launch, are being rewarded multiple times? Those of us that didn't take part in the Cyrodiil leveling fiasco, or one of the dozen other leveling exploits during launch...
You know what, forget it.
Yeah, I "exploited" by doing the main quest line all the way through multiple times taking my time and enjoying the game, thaaaat's it.
Oh yeah, there were people who were vet BEFORE launch because they had "beta tested" for over a year just to learn how to "exploit" the system and get max lvl asap then "pwn noobs" in AvA by exploiting Impulse/Batswarm. They were all AD guys. Those people have long since moved on.
I was NOT one of them. I didn't get my first vet till a week or so after launch because I took my time.
You know what, you have a good point though, ZoS should take away ALL vet ranks and give ZERO CP. That would be much more fair.
Oh and don't forget ZoS please make sure we all get our
[snip] I'm not referring to people that actually played the game and earned their XP legitimately. There were actually exploits out there on launch day that allowed people to get level 50 within 20 hours, give or take. Point me to where I lumped all VR's into the Exploit category. Go ahead, I'll wait.
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on May 19, 2024 11:47AM3 -
Morshire✭✭✭✭EDIT: I will go ahead and moderate this before someone else does. It isn't even worth it and I should have just let it be. Apparently, "casuals" have no place in the game according to what I read and I will be hard pressed to find anything but contempt for "elitist" and that entire debate ever again.
Edited by Morshire on January 17, 2015 9:35PMFollow me if I advance, Kill me if I retreat, Avenge me if I die.
When this immediate evil power has been defeated, we shall not yet have won the long battle with the elemental barbarities. Another evil, it may be an invisible adversary, will attempt, again, and yet again, to destroy our frail civilization. Is it true, I wonder, that the only way to escape a war is to be in it?
If I die, you are forgiven, If I live, I will kill you.2 -
kelly.medleyb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭DanielMaxwell wrote: »
please do not equate elite players with elitist players , they are two very different groups of players
Elite players want the game to be balanced and fun to play while they acknowledge that players who do not play as often or are not as good at the game as they are will never catch up to them . These players will very often help out casual players in game and make guides to various class builds , dungeons and raids.
Elitist players just want to keep any and every advantage they have over the "casual" players , that includes any exploits they find . they also do not care about game balance or the games long term health.
Well said, which is why I would suggest other compensation other than CP for my VR14's + other VR toons loss of progress or just a flat no CP for anyone, start everyone out on an even footing and compensate us all with Mr. Guinea pig pet above
1 -
DanielMaxwell✭✭✭kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »
please do not equate elite players with elitist players , they are two very different groups of players
Elite players want the game to be balanced and fun to play while they acknowledge that players who do not play as often or are not as good at the game as they are will never catch up to them . These players will very often help out casual players in game and make guides to various class builds , dungeons and raids.
Elitist players just want to keep any and every advantage they have over the "casual" players , that includes any exploits they find . they also do not care about game balance or the games long term health.
Well said, which is why I would suggest other compensation other than CP for my VR14's + other VR toons loss of progress or just a flat no CP for anyone, start everyone out on an even footing and compensate us all with Mr. Guinea pig pet above
Mr. Guinea pig pet would cause in game problems , such as having more damage mitigation then a tank specced DK , and causing all khajit and argonian characters and players to chase it .
1 -
Nazon_Katts✭✭✭✭✭The champion system is about to be new content which is supposed to keep you busy and give you goals in the following weeks after release.
Expactations that hours played before the patch would be considered in the champion system on a 1:1 basis are therefore absurd. Be happy that some of the played time is recognized at all as i see this as a sign of of good will by the developers.
What if they would grant you champion points for all the past hours played? There would not be much new content for you to achieve. They want you to keep playing (and paying). Giving you gifts like that is not howe mmos work.
There's no new content. The CS is not set on top. It is a replacement, theoretically providing goals to pursue for years.
There's no reason not to consider a years worth of play time for something that's supposed to run and last for a couple of years more. There's no goodwill involved, just pragmatism.
There would be all the same content as to everyone, all the new content would still be new and there'd still be the vast majority of progression left. Taking away earned progress is not how MMOs work.
"You've probably figured that out by now. Let's hope so. Or we're in real trouble... and out come the intestines. And I skip rope with them!"2 -
kelly.medleyb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭DanielMaxwell wrote: »kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »
please do not equate elite players with elitist players , they are two very different groups of players
Elite players want the game to be balanced and fun to play while they acknowledge that players who do not play as often or are not as good at the game as they are will never catch up to them . These players will very often help out casual players in game and make guides to various class builds , dungeons and raids.
Elitist players just want to keep any and every advantage they have over the "casual" players , that includes any exploits they find . they also do not care about game balance or the games long term health.
Well said, which is why I would suggest other compensation other than CP for my VR14's + other VR toons loss of progress or just a flat no CP for anyone, start everyone out on an even footing and compensate us all with Mr. Guinea pig pet above
Mr. Guinea pig pet would cause in game problems , such as having more damage mitigation then a tank specced DK , and causing all khajit and argonian characters and players to chase it .
LOL! Hey they could have it cause Khajiit go into a berserker mode! Give it a fear component for all other mobs!0 -
DanielMaxwell✭✭✭Nazon_Katts wrote: »The champion system is about to be new content which is supposed to keep you busy and give you goals in the following weeks after release.
Expactations that hours played before the patch would be considered in the champion system on a 1:1 basis are therefore absurd. Be happy that some of the played time is recognized at all as i see this as a sign of of good will by the developers.
What if they would grant you champion points for all the past hours played? There would not be much new content for you to achieve. They want you to keep playing (and paying). Giving you gifts like that is not howe mmos work.
There's no new content. The CS is not set on top. It is a replacement, theoretically providing goals to pursue for years.
There's no reason not to consider a years worth of play time for something that's supposed to run and last for a couple of years more. There's no goodwill involved, just pragmatism.
There would be all the same content as to everyone, all the new content would still be new and there'd still be the vast majority of progression left. Taking away earned progress is not how MMOs work.
LOL the problem with that is the same players who have multiple VR14's are the same ones who will progress faster and further then the Developers expect players to go in the first 6 months of the champion system . By the time we get to January 2016 some of those players will be close to or at the max for the champion system.
3 -
DanielMaxwell✭✭✭kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »
please do not equate elite players with elitist players , they are two very different groups of players
Elite players want the game to be balanced and fun to play while they acknowledge that players who do not play as often or are not as good at the game as they are will never catch up to them . These players will very often help out casual players in game and make guides to various class builds , dungeons and raids.
Elitist players just want to keep any and every advantage they have over the "casual" players , that includes any exploits they find . they also do not care about game balance or the games long term health.
Well said, which is why I would suggest other compensation other than CP for my VR14's + other VR toons loss of progress or just a flat no CP for anyone, start everyone out on an even footing and compensate us all with Mr. Guinea pig pet above
Mr. Guinea pig pet would cause in game problems , such as having more damage mitigation then a tank specced DK , and causing all khajit and argonian characters and players to chase it .
LOL! Hey they could have it cause Khajiit go into a berserker mode! Give it a fear component for all other mobs!
the khajiit will be to focused on the Mr. Guinea pig pet to go berserk or do anything but chase it
1 -
kelly.medleyb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭DanielMaxwell wrote: »Nazon_Katts wrote: »The champion system is about to be new content which is supposed to keep you busy and give you goals in the following weeks after release.
Expactations that hours played before the patch would be considered in the champion system on a 1:1 basis are therefore absurd. Be happy that some of the played time is recognized at all as i see this as a sign of of good will by the developers.
What if they would grant you champion points for all the past hours played? There would not be much new content for you to achieve. They want you to keep playing (and paying). Giving you gifts like that is not howe mmos work.
There's no new content. The CS is not set on top. It is a replacement, theoretically providing goals to pursue for years.
There's no reason not to consider a years worth of play time for something that's supposed to run and last for a couple of years more. There's no goodwill involved, just pragmatism.
There would be all the same content as to everyone, all the new content would still be new and there'd still be the vast majority of progression left. Taking away earned progress is not how MMOs work.
LOL the problem with that is the same players who have multiple VR14's are the same ones who will progress faster and further then the Developers expect players to go in the first 6 months of the champion system . By the time we get to January 2016 some of those players will be close to or at the max for the champion system.
While this is true, we should be punished for their underestimation of player tenacity?DanielMaxwell wrote: »kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »
please do not equate elite players with elitist players , they are two very different groups of players
Elite players want the game to be balanced and fun to play while they acknowledge that players who do not play as often or are not as good at the game as they are will never catch up to them . These players will very often help out casual players in game and make guides to various class builds , dungeons and raids.
Elitist players just want to keep any and every advantage they have over the "casual" players , that includes any exploits they find . they also do not care about game balance or the games long term health.
Well said, which is why I would suggest other compensation other than CP for my VR14's + other VR toons loss of progress or just a flat no CP for anyone, start everyone out on an even footing and compensate us all with Mr. Guinea pig pet above
Mr. Guinea pig pet would cause in game problems , such as having more damage mitigation then a tank specced DK , and causing all khajit and argonian characters and players to chase it .
LOL! Hey they could have it cause Khajiit go into a berserker mode! Give it a fear component for all other mobs!
the khajiit will be to focused on the Mr. Guinea pig pet to go berserk or do anything but chase it
Maybe he'll go berserker on said Guinea Pig!1 -
DanielMaxwell✭✭✭kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »Nazon_Katts wrote: »The champion system is about to be new content which is supposed to keep you busy and give you goals in the following weeks after release.
Expactations that hours played before the patch would be considered in the champion system on a 1:1 basis are therefore absurd. Be happy that some of the played time is recognized at all as i see this as a sign of of good will by the developers.
What if they would grant you champion points for all the past hours played? There would not be much new content for you to achieve. They want you to keep playing (and paying). Giving you gifts like that is not howe mmos work.
There's no new content. The CS is not set on top. It is a replacement, theoretically providing goals to pursue for years.
There's no reason not to consider a years worth of play time for something that's supposed to run and last for a couple of years more. There's no goodwill involved, just pragmatism.
There would be all the same content as to everyone, all the new content would still be new and there'd still be the vast majority of progression left. Taking away earned progress is not how MMOs work.
LOL the problem with that is the same players who have multiple VR14's are the same ones who will progress faster and further then the Developers expect players to go in the first 6 months of the champion system . By the time we get to January 2016 some of those players will be close to or at the max for the champion system.
While this is true, we should be punished for their underestimation of player tenacity?DanielMaxwell wrote: »kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »
please do not equate elite players with elitist players , they are two very different groups of players
Elite players want the game to be balanced and fun to play while they acknowledge that players who do not play as often or are not as good at the game as they are will never catch up to them . These players will very often help out casual players in game and make guides to various class builds , dungeons and raids.
Elitist players just want to keep any and every advantage they have over the "casual" players , that includes any exploits they find . they also do not care about game balance or the games long term health.
Well said, which is why I would suggest other compensation other than CP for my VR14's + other VR toons loss of progress or just a flat no CP for anyone, start everyone out on an even footing and compensate us all with Mr. Guinea pig pet above
Mr. Guinea pig pet would cause in game problems , such as having more damage mitigation then a tank specced DK , and causing all khajit and argonian characters and players to chase it .
LOL! Hey they could have it cause Khajiit go into a berserker mode! Give it a fear component for all other mobs!
the khajiit will be to focused on the Mr. Guinea pig pet to go berserk or do anything but chase it
Maybe he'll go berserker on said Guinea Pig!
The Developers should not balance the game around those players , it is just to small a group of players to have a stable game population . Prime example is the game Vanguard that did balance around those players and did not even last a year , also no Development team can put out content as fast as those players can consume it.
As for Mr. Guinea pig pet and the Khajiit , yes said khajiit might just go berserk on him but it will take the khajiit a bit of time to get through Mr. Guinea pig pet's armour.1 -
kelly.medleyb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭DanielMaxwell wrote: »kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »Nazon_Katts wrote: »The champion system is about to be new content which is supposed to keep you busy and give you goals in the following weeks after release.
Expactations that hours played before the patch would be considered in the champion system on a 1:1 basis are therefore absurd. Be happy that some of the played time is recognized at all as i see this as a sign of of good will by the developers.
What if they would grant you champion points for all the past hours played? There would not be much new content for you to achieve. They want you to keep playing (and paying). Giving you gifts like that is not howe mmos work.
There's no new content. The CS is not set on top. It is a replacement, theoretically providing goals to pursue for years.
There's no reason not to consider a years worth of play time for something that's supposed to run and last for a couple of years more. There's no goodwill involved, just pragmatism.
There would be all the same content as to everyone, all the new content would still be new and there'd still be the vast majority of progression left. Taking away earned progress is not how MMOs work.
LOL the problem with that is the same players who have multiple VR14's are the same ones who will progress faster and further then the Developers expect players to go in the first 6 months of the champion system . By the time we get to January 2016 some of those players will be close to or at the max for the champion system.
While this is true, we should be punished for their underestimation of player tenacity?DanielMaxwell wrote: »kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »
please do not equate elite players with elitist players , they are two very different groups of players
Elite players want the game to be balanced and fun to play while they acknowledge that players who do not play as often or are not as good at the game as they are will never catch up to them . These players will very often help out casual players in game and make guides to various class builds , dungeons and raids.
Elitist players just want to keep any and every advantage they have over the "casual" players , that includes any exploits they find . they also do not care about game balance or the games long term health.
Well said, which is why I would suggest other compensation other than CP for my VR14's + other VR toons loss of progress or just a flat no CP for anyone, start everyone out on an even footing and compensate us all with Mr. Guinea pig pet above
Mr. Guinea pig pet would cause in game problems , such as having more damage mitigation then a tank specced DK , and causing all khajit and argonian characters and players to chase it .
LOL! Hey they could have it cause Khajiit go into a berserker mode! Give it a fear component for all other mobs!
the khajiit will be to focused on the Mr. Guinea pig pet to go berserk or do anything but chase it
Maybe he'll go berserker on said Guinea Pig!
The Developers should not balance the game around those players , it is just to small a group of players to have a stable game population . Prime example is the game Vanguard that did balance around those players and did not even last a year , also no Development team can put out content as fast as those players can consume it.
As for Mr. Guinea pig pet and the Khajiit , yes said khajiit might just go berserk on him but it will take the khajiit a bit of time to get through Mr. Guinea pig pet's armour.
Has nothing to do with balancing the game around anyone, it has to do with us being used as Guinea Pigs and not offering compensation.0 -
DanielMaxwell✭✭✭kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »Nazon_Katts wrote: »The champion system is about to be new content which is supposed to keep you busy and give you goals in the following weeks after release.
Expactations that hours played before the patch would be considered in the champion system on a 1:1 basis are therefore absurd. Be happy that some of the played time is recognized at all as i see this as a sign of of good will by the developers.
What if they would grant you champion points for all the past hours played? There would not be much new content for you to achieve. They want you to keep playing (and paying). Giving you gifts like that is not howe mmos work.
There's no new content. The CS is not set on top. It is a replacement, theoretically providing goals to pursue for years.
There's no reason not to consider a years worth of play time for something that's supposed to run and last for a couple of years more. There's no goodwill involved, just pragmatism.
There would be all the same content as to everyone, all the new content would still be new and there'd still be the vast majority of progression left. Taking away earned progress is not how MMOs work.
LOL the problem with that is the same players who have multiple VR14's are the same ones who will progress faster and further then the Developers expect players to go in the first 6 months of the champion system . By the time we get to January 2016 some of those players will be close to or at the max for the champion system.
While this is true, we should be punished for their underestimation of player tenacity?DanielMaxwell wrote: »kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »
please do not equate elite players with elitist players , they are two very different groups of players
Elite players want the game to be balanced and fun to play while they acknowledge that players who do not play as often or are not as good at the game as they are will never catch up to them . These players will very often help out casual players in game and make guides to various class builds , dungeons and raids.
Elitist players just want to keep any and every advantage they have over the "casual" players , that includes any exploits they find . they also do not care about game balance or the games long term health.
Well said, which is why I would suggest other compensation other than CP for my VR14's + other VR toons loss of progress or just a flat no CP for anyone, start everyone out on an even footing and compensate us all with Mr. Guinea pig pet above
Mr. Guinea pig pet would cause in game problems , such as having more damage mitigation then a tank specced DK , and causing all khajit and argonian characters and players to chase it .
LOL! Hey they could have it cause Khajiit go into a berserker mode! Give it a fear component for all other mobs!
the khajiit will be to focused on the Mr. Guinea pig pet to go berserk or do anything but chase it
Maybe he'll go berserker on said Guinea Pig!
The Developers should not balance the game around those players , it is just to small a group of players to have a stable game population . Prime example is the game Vanguard that did balance around those players and did not even last a year , also no Development team can put out content as fast as those players can consume it.
As for Mr. Guinea pig pet and the Khajiit , yes said khajiit might just go berserk on him but it will take the khajiit a bit of time to get through Mr. Guinea pig pet's armour.
Has nothing to do with balancing the game around anyone, it has to do with us being used as Guinea Pigs and not offering compensation.
All MMO's are in a state of constant development .New systems will be tested internally , placed on a public beta test server , then placed on the live servers , during each of these stages they make changes to the games code along with changes to the code for the new systems . Each stage exposes the new systems , and new code , to a larger base of concurrent users which increases the chance of bugs and code errors being found .
Simple put even on the live servers you are still testing the game , if that causes you problems then perhaps MMO games are not suited to you , but that is entirely up to you to decide .
All in game rewards are subject to game balance concerns , including how players gain progress in a new system .Edited by DanielMaxwell on January 18, 2015 1:15AM2 -
kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »
please do not equate elite players with elitist players , they are two very different groups of players
Elite players want the game to be balanced and fun to play while they acknowledge that players who do not play as often or are not as good at the game as they are will never catch up to them . These players will very often help out casual players in game and make guides to various class builds , dungeons and raids.
Elitist players just want to keep any and every advantage they have over the "casual" players , that includes any exploits they find . they also do not care about game balance or the games long term health.
Well said, which is why I would suggest other compensation other than CP for my VR14's + other VR toons loss of progress or just a flat no CP for anyone, start everyone out on an even footing and compensate us all with Mr. Guinea pig pet above
so youre opinion is to screw everyone and get a guinea pig pet. ok all reason has been thrown to the side. no point in debating with what is clearly and completely irrational. when you argument is that you aren't receiving enough compensation and your answer is to receive none at all you aren't helping your argument
I would much rather get screwed a little in the name of game balance, than get screwed a lot for no good reasonEdited by badmojo0777b14_ESO on January 18, 2015 1:38AM0 -
glak✭✭✭
Look again after reading this information below.randolphbenoit wrote: »The script is not an addon, its part of the default game.
/script d(GetUnitXP("player"))
Typing this (exactly as above) in game chat window will return the total amount of XP your character has earned.
Shows XP ok but not toons with Vet Points...
This shows 1 million when you max out at veteran rank 14.
Conversely, this shows 0 when you hit a new veteran rank.
/script d(GetUnitVeteranPoints("player"))
1000000: maximum for any veteran rank. Won't turn over to 0 if at max veteran rank.
0: new veteran rank
This shows 14 million and extra when you max out at veteran rank 14:
/script d(GetUnitXP("player"))
14000000+ : what would be vet rank 15
15000000+ : what would be vet rank 16
Why does the GetUnixXP not stop at 14 million? Because this shows 0 (a.k.a. as large a signed integer can fit in (32-bit) memory for all getters/setters related to a maximum):
/script d(GetUnitXPMax("player"))
0: 2,147,483,647 (2 billion and change)
So yes they are tracking XP past what would be vet 15 but they are not going to use it higher than start of vet 15 AFAWK.Edited by glak on January 20, 2015 2:53AM2 -
Nazon_Katts✭✭✭✭✭badmojo0777b14_ESO wrote: »kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »badmojo0777b14_ESO wrote: »kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »
please do not equate elite players with elitist players , they are two very different groups of players
Elite players want the game to be balanced and fun to play while they acknowledge that players who do not play as often or are not as good at the game as they are will never catch up to them . These players will very often help out casual players in game and make guides to various class builds , dungeons and raids.
Elitist players just want to keep any and every advantage they have over the "casual" players , that includes any exploits they find . they also do not care about game balance or the games long term health.
Well said, which is why I would suggest other compensation other than CP for my VR14's + other VR toons loss of progress or just a flat no CP for anyone, start everyone out on an even footing and compensate us all with Mr. Guinea pig pet above
so youre opinion is to screw everyone and get a guinea pig pet. ok all reason has been thrown to the side. no point in debating with what is clearly and completely irrational. when you argument is that you aren't receiving enough compensation and your answer is to receive none at all you aren't helping your argument
I would much rather get screwed a little in the name of game balance, than get screwed a lot for no good reason
[snip]
[snip]
He's not alone. And there's more that aren't aware of what's coming up yet. Just because the majority here doesn't feel like being screwed over, doesn't make it so. All it shows is how convincing the sales tactics of ZOS are.
It remains a reset of progress to nearly starting point without a meaningful compensation.
I understand their current approach demands this. I question that it's the only way of doing it and I am firmly convinced there's a solution that incorporates current progression and respects the endless hours people have put into the game.
Going the easy route of pure xp conversion and truncation of progress might save them development time, but at the expense of players with no noteworthy compensation. People paid for all that play time and propgress after all, so at the very least they should offer free play time with the new system's implementation. Or a couple of ZP.
Please note that I've got just two VR characters. One VR12 and the other VR3. I will get the exactly 70CP, when the conversation happens as currently planed. Should they change it, as I think they should, I'll be considerably behind in CP compared to hardcore players.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on May 19, 2024 11:58AM"You've probably figured that out by now. Let's hope so. Or we're in real trouble... and out come the intestines. And I skip rope with them!"1 -
Nazon_Katts wrote: »badmojo0777b14_ESO wrote: »kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »badmojo0777b14_ESO wrote: »kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »DanielMaxwell wrote: »
please do not equate elite players with elitist players , they are two very different groups of players
Elite players want the game to be balanced and fun to play while they acknowledge that players who do not play as often or are not as good at the game as they are will never catch up to them . These players will very often help out casual players in game and make guides to various class builds , dungeons and raids.
Elitist players just want to keep any and every advantage they have over the "casual" players , that includes any exploits they find . they also do not care about game balance or the games long term health.
Well said, which is why I would suggest other compensation other than CP for my VR14's + other VR toons loss of progress or just a flat no CP for anyone, start everyone out on an even footing and compensate us all with Mr. Guinea pig pet above
so youre opinion is to screw everyone and get a guinea pig pet. ok all reason has been thrown to the side. no point in debating with what is clearly and completely irrational. when you argument is that you aren't receiving enough compensation and your answer is to receive none at all you aren't helping your argument
I would much rather get screwed a little in the name of game balance, than get screwed a lot for no good reason
[snip]
[snip]
He's not alone. And there's more that aren't aware of what's coming up yet. Just because the majority here doesn't feel like being screwed over, doesn't make it so. All it shows is how convincing the sales tactics of ZOS are.
It remains a reset of progress to nearly starting point without a meaningful compensation.
I understand their current approach demands this. I question that it's the only way of doing it and I am firmly convinced there's a solution that incorporates current progression and respects the endless hours people have put into the game.
Going the easy route of pure xp conversion and truncation of progress might save them development time, but at the expense of players with no noteworthy compensation. People paid for all that play time and propgress after all, so at the very least they should offer free play time with the new system's implementation. Or a couple of ZP.
Please note that I've got just two VR characters. One VR12 and the other VR3. I will get the exactly 70CP, when the conversation happens as currently planed. Should they change it, as I think they should, I'll be considerably behind in CP compared to hardcore players.
so you are getting the same 70 points im getting, I have 2 VR14s and some assorted lower level alts. im ok with that, its close enough. its not perfect but atleast ZOS is recognizing and rewarding some reward for advancement past level 50. previously everyone with a VR1 would get the same advancement as someone with a Vr14, or multiple Vr14s, THAt was a slap in the face.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on May 19, 2024 11:59AM0 -
Kraven✭✭✭✭✭CP30 was not acceptable. This is a compromise. It's MUCH better than CP30.
Couple points.
1. No matter how many V14s you have You haven't done MORE content, you've just done the same content more often. CP30 those who did more content were getting screwed.
2. V14=V14, so even if you have 8 V14s all 8 of those V14 characters are exactly equal to every other V14 in the game. Period. V14=V14.
3. IF they award you 70CP PER vet rank character then those with 8 V14 would start with 560CP. For what? Going forward they don't have less content than any other V14 character.
4. 560CP spent among every single V14 on one account means that suddenly, V14 doesn't equal V14.
5. It is an ACCOUNT wide system. Every single V14 in the game will have the exact same number of CP to spend.
6. Are you special that you deserve more than any other V14? So someone who is actually dedicated to their character playing and improving one to the point of absolute perfection, is less deserving than someone who plays eight V14s poorly?
[snip] When CP30 was a thing I spoke up against it, many of us did. This is easily recognized as a suitable compromise, since there is no perfect solution.
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on May 19, 2024 11:53AMV14 - IMPERIAL NIGHTBLADE - DPS/TANK
V13 - BRETON SORCERER - HEALS/DPS
V2 - REDGUARD DRAGONKNIGHT - MELEE DPS
V1 - BRETON TEMPLAR - TANK/DPS
to be continued... Nevermind, no longer "to be continued"4 -
Nazon_Katts✭✭✭✭✭
We went from 0.8% progression for everyone to 1.9% progression for most who played through the last year. We apparently have a different sense of what an appropriate progression for a year's worth play-time should be.CP30 was not acceptable. This is a compromise. It's MUCH better than CP30.
To me, both numbers are way too low.1. No matter how many V14s you have You haven't done MORE content, you've just done the same content more often. CP30 those who did more content were getting screwed.
With the new system you'll get CP for doing the same content on alts every time you'll do it. If they reward it in the future, they should do so retroactively. That's what I'd consider fair.2. V14=V14, so even if you have 8 V14s all 8 of those V14 characters are exactly equal to every other V14 in the game. Period. V14=V14.
The exact problem, indeed. See above.3. IF they award you 70CP PER vet rank character then those with 8 V14 would start with 560CP. For what? Going forward they don't have less content than any other V14 character.
15% progression moves into the ballpark I'd want to see average accumalation of CP, tho I find 20-25% more reasonable. 4-5 years to get 3600CP should be more than enough. Powergamers will generate many more points than that anyways.4. 560CP spent among every single V14 on one account means that suddenly, V14 doesn't equal V14.
Good point. It does however speak against the system as a whole as we will end up with exactly that, eventually. Probably sooner than later.5. It is an ACCOUNT wide system. Every single V14 in the game will have the exact same number of CP to spend.
See above. Maybe the account wide nature should be reconsidered? Or we should find ways to generate CP by other means than just XP? This is a problem, but it remains, wether you retroactively award people or not.6. Are you special that you deserve more than any other V14? So someone who is actually dedicated to their character playing and improving one to the point of absolute perfection, is less deserving than someone who plays eight V14s poorly?
Since I do not even have a VR14 and pointed out I'd be getting less than most, I take it you weren't adressing me, yes?
This another good point, but could be solved by taking other factors into account than just XP. The game already offers different measures of activity, like achievement points, alliance points, inspiration, /played and maybe there's even the code for finesse left in the game, which could be used to determine the quality of play, instead of just pure quantity or XP count.[snip] When CP30 was a thing I spoke up against it, many of us did. This is easily recognized as a suitable compromise, since there is no perfect solution.
No I am not complaining just to be complaining. And I do not recognize this as a suitable compromise. To me, it's rather easily to recognize ZOS is cutting corners to speed up development. I'd be ok with it, if they offered appropriate compensation. If they save time and money, so should we.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on May 19, 2024 11:54AM"You've probably figured that out by now. Let's hope so. Or we're in real trouble... and out come the intestines. And I skip rope with them!"2 -
renton1x1x1✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »badmojo0777b14_ESO wrote: »Silleevad1 wrote: »I can't figure out what everybody is so happy about. I only have one VR-7 that I'm furiously trying to get to VR-8 because of this, but my in-game wife has multiple veterans and is going to lose a lot, because she only gets a maximum of 70 CP. I don't think I will suffer so bad, because I just have the one veteran. My next grade down is a Level 49 which I'm going to leave right there for now. What's the point of doing otherwise. Way to go ZOS in encouraging me not to play my other characters.
Here's a novel idea. Instead of worrying about stupid things like this, why don't you fix the system problems, such as the one that boots us off the game way too often. Another example that needs fixing happened yesterday, when my non-vet group could not get into a group dungeon. Why? The message we kept getting was that it was a veteran dungeon only, yet there were no vets in that group. Why don't you fix things like this first?
And for all of you wearing your happy pants right now, was the Veteran Rank System really so difficult that you couldn't enjoy the game? Not for me. I enjoy it the way it is now and would like to see it continue. To suddenly have the dream of someday being a VR-14 taken away because of you crybabies is extremely deflating to me.
you do realize that your in game wife gets 70 CP for EACH character on the account? they aren't LOSING anything.
Kindly read the very first post written by Gina in this thread:
Champion Points are shared across all characters as the system is account wide, but for the conversion of XP to Champion Points, no more than 70 Champion Points will be given to an account.
Just to make things clear:
The account only gets 70 points. But the veteran level 14 characters on that account are getting 70 points each to spend as they see fit. This is because the points the account gets are not 'used up' for other characters when one character spends his points.
Imagine it as a swimming pool that only has 70 m3 of water in it, but all your vet14 characters can go swim in it, and them doing so won't make the volume of water in the pool any lower.
We used the same swimming pool analogy to initially understand how the system worked, too!
ok i have a question about the champion points having an account wide pool.
I have a vr 14 and 4 other veteran level characters.
If i decide to spend all 70 points from the conversion and 5 points i earned from time played after 1.6 goes live
Will i then have 75 points to spend on every character on my account?
Or will i already of spent the 75 champion points in my account wide pool
on my vr14?
Also after 1.6 can 1 champion point earned be spent individually on each character?
These questions may have already been asked but none of the answers really answered the account -wide question definitely.
ThanksEdited by renton1x1x1 on January 21, 2015 2:20AMRenton Sc Breton Sorcerer VR14
Renton Tp Argonian Templar VR14
Renton Dk Imperial DragonKnight VR14
Renton Nb Khajiit Nightblade VR10 Vampire
www.alitheso.com Casual Social EU PvX Guild
Ebonheart Pact EU PVP Decimation Elite Azura's Star
The Traveling Merchant
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/190077/the-traveling-merchant-eu-craglorn-trading-guild
So let me get this straight: You want to ride on a magic carpet to see the king of the potato people and beg with him for your freedom. And you're telling me that you're completely sane? - Rimmer - Red Dwarf V - Quarantine1 -
Nazon_Katts✭✭✭✭✭If you earned 5 additional points after 1.6 went live, you'd have 75 points to spend on all your characters individually. Each point you earn on any 50+ / VR character, will give you 1 point for each and any characters of your account to spend, including newly created ones.
So whatever your CP pool size is, every character can spend it in full and individually."You've probably figured that out by now. Let's hope so. Or we're in real trouble... and out come the intestines. And I skip rope with them!"0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nazon_Katts wrote: »
We went from 0.8% progression for everyone to 1.9% progression for most who played through the last year. We apparently have a different sense of what an appropriate progression for a year's worth play-time should be.CP30 was not acceptable. This is a compromise. It's MUCH better than CP30.
To me, both numbers are way too low.
Maybe i am old school, but when a new system is introduced into a game, i do not expect to have any progression into it the moment it launches.
Anything above nothing is an unexpected bonus.7 -
Aletheion✭✭✭I have a question for clarification (assuming this hasn't already been addressed).
I have a VR14 toon that played through most everything (and I loved it).
I have another VR14 toon that grinded mobs and such to level up that hasn't done any quests except the main storyline (completed). Not a single other quest or dolmen or delve or anything.
When 1.6 goes live, if I start running quests on that toon (all faction story lines plus side quests, pub dungeons, dolmens, etc) will he gain Champion Points for the account?
Thanks,
-Aletheion0 -
Nazon_Katts✭✭✭✭✭Nazon_Katts wrote: »
We went from 0.8% progression for everyone to 1.9% progression for most who played through the last year. We apparently have a different sense of what an appropriate progression for a year's worth play-time should be.CP30 was not acceptable. This is a compromise. It's MUCH better than CP30.
To me, both numbers are way too low.
Maybe i am old school, but when a new system is introduced into a game, i do not expect to have any progression into it the moment it launches.
Anything above nothing is an unexpected bonus.
Neither do I. But this is not a new system on top, it replaces entirely just what is already there.
Maybe I am old school. But I do not expect to have any progression taken away from me and expect to still be at the same spot I was before, wether an expansion comes out with new progression ahead or not. Even more so, when there's no new content to progress into.
A lot of folks already did the content that will reward progression after the system goes live. They are ahead now and should be ahead then. If not, progression is lost. A lot of it.Edited by Nazon_Katts on January 21, 2015 1:47PM"You've probably figured that out by now. Let's hope so. Or we're in real trouble... and out come the intestines. And I skip rope with them!"0 -
Nazon_Katts✭✭✭✭✭I have a question for clarification (assuming this hasn't already been addressed).
I have a VR14 toon that played through most everything (and I loved it).
I have another VR14 toon that grinded mobs and such to level up that hasn't done any quests except the main storyline (completed). Not a single other quest or dolmen or delve or anything.
When 1.6 goes live, if I start running quests on that toon (all faction story lines plus side quests, pub dungeons, dolmens, etc) will he gain Champion Points for the account?
Thanks,
-Aletheion
As far as we know, yes. You will generate CP on every play through on all characters 50+ and never lose CPs, even when you delete a character that generated them."You've probably figured that out by now. Let's hope so. Or we're in real trouble... and out come the intestines. And I skip rope with them!"0 -
Morshire✭✭✭✭Nazon_Katts wrote: »A lot of folks already did the content that will reward progression after the system goes live. They are ahead now and should be ahead then. If not, progression is lost. A lot of it.
The part that gets me the most, ZOS always said that there would be a cap to the amount of XP=CP when the system launched. So the people that ran out and maxed 8 VR14 characters and are still screaming about being cheated, I have to ask, "What exactly did you think up to a cap meant?" So the 30CP was unfair and probably the worst idea anyone could have thought up, but they fixed that to reward some of the progression max level players have done versus new VR characters. (Which by the way, was the complaint voiced in these forums) So they address that concern, whether you agree with it or not, they addressed it. Now, that isn't the complaint, it is back to "not enough". I am not sure that if ZOS gave even more CP, the complaint wouldn't be "Still not enough" or "Why do we not have more content." I could agree with the discontent when it was "everyone is equal" approach, but this new argument seems to be lacking in substance from where I sit.
I really don't understand how "I don't get enough, so we should all get nothing" even fits in all this. If you are happy with nothing, then why are complaining about 70CP? That one really has me scratching my head. But hey, he/she/they are saying they are happy with nothing but a pet.....So take their 70CP, give them a pet, and let them go on living. Simple solution there. I personally would not be okay with some vanity pet, so I will continue to support the option ZOS has laid out for 1.6
Follow me if I advance, Kill me if I retreat, Avenge me if I die.
When this immediate evil power has been defeated, we shall not yet have won the long battle with the elemental barbarities. Another evil, it may be an invisible adversary, will attempt, again, and yet again, to destroy our frail civilization. Is it true, I wonder, that the only way to escape a war is to be in it?
If I die, you are forgiven, If I live, I will kill you.3 -
Nazon_Katts✭✭✭✭✭@Morshire
Please reread the thread. The last couple pages should suffice. This has been discussed and it is not how you like to put it."You've probably figured that out by now. Let's hope so. Or we're in real trouble... and out come the intestines. And I skip rope with them!"0 -
Nazon_Katts✭✭✭✭✭Alright, reimburse us in Crowns. If you must insist on keeping it easy, then just base it on months paid prior to the release of Tamriel Unlimited (fubar subtitle, btw)."You've probably figured that out by now. Let's hope so. Or we're in real trouble... and out come the intestines. And I skip rope with them!"0
-
Morshire✭✭✭✭Nazon_Katts wrote: »@Morshire
Please reread the thread. The last couple pages should suffice. This has been discussed and it is not how you like to put it.
So I did go back through and read the posts, in case I missed something, but it looks like I read it right the first time. "70CP is not enough" because people feel their progression is not being "rewarded". So my above statement still is valid. ZOS said there would be a cap. If you went above and beyond that, then you are mad because????? The old 30CP was wrong. It did not acknowledge the progression of a VR14 versus a VR1. So they changed it to be the 70CP based off XP earned. But that is now not enough because it doesn't reflect how much more some VR14 has over others. Yes the content is not going to be reset. Yes there is a big gap in what was "earned" versus what is returned. But ZOS had to cap the XP gained or some people would have had the CP maxed before it even came out. So I reiterate what I said above.Follow me if I advance, Kill me if I retreat, Avenge me if I die.
When this immediate evil power has been defeated, we shall not yet have won the long battle with the elemental barbarities. Another evil, it may be an invisible adversary, will attempt, again, and yet again, to destroy our frail civilization. Is it true, I wonder, that the only way to escape a war is to be in it?
If I die, you are forgiven, If I live, I will kill you.1
This discussion has been closed.