Feedback to the Champion System

joleda4ub17_ESO

I've rerolled a new main and will do nothing but grind. No quests at all. None. Notta. Zero. Zilch.

Nazon_Katts

Morshire wrote: »

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

@Morshire‌
Please reread the thread. The last couple pages should suffice. This has been discussed and it is not how you like to put it.

So I did go back through and read the posts, in case I missed something, but it looks like I read it right the first time. "70CP is not enough" because people feel their progression is not being "rewarded". So my above statement still is valid. ZOS said there would be a cap. If you went above and beyond that, then you are mad because????? The old 30CP was wrong. It did not acknowledge the progression of a VR14 versus a VR1. So they changed it to be the 70CP based off XP earned. But that is now not enough because it doesn't reflect how much more some VR14 has over others. Yes the content is not going to be reset. Yes there is a big gap in what was "earned" versus what is returned. But ZOS had to cap the XP gained or some people would have had the CP maxed before it even came out. So I reiterate what I said above.

I'm sorry, but then I can only conclude you lack reading comprehension.

Ysne58

@Morshire‌ You read it all correctly. Your reading comprehension is just fine. The conversation has become all about that 70 CP not being enough.

Question to all: how does the announcement on BtP change this conversation?

Morshire

@Ysne58 - I figured that after the last comment. I think people are more up in arms right now about the B2P announcement than CP now anyway. Not good tidings I fear. We shall see where this conversation falls on the topics thread after today.

Nazon_Katts

Nah, I'm not up in arms. It's just that those points have been made, were addressed and met their rebuttal. If you want to take the debate further, you'd have to address those, instead of repeating old arguments.

Considering this is a public discussion forum, you are of course free to start anew, but please don't be offended when I consider that a pointless endeavor.

How B2P may change things? Read my comment on this page.

Morshire

Okay, the B2P is off topic.

Nazon_Katts

Hm, no. B2P is very well on topic, as it could offer means of reimbursement for lost progress. Additionally it would offer incentives for current subscribers to stick with ESO and make the transition to the CS and ESO Plus.

Y'know, I don't think they will change there stance on CP a third time, I'm not that delusional. But here's a way to offer compensation without much effort on their end.

Even tho it's the lack of effort they put into finding a fair conversion for everyone and every play style I dislike the most in all of this, this would at least save us time and money as they save it by not delevoping a more thorough and more encompassing conversion process.

Lost progress in trade for free crown points, which then could be possibly used to regain said lost progress finally begins to sound like a fair deal to me. And most importantly, a feasible one to boot, since they wouldn't have to rebalance, nor redesign anything.

Ysne58

You make a good point @Nazon_Katts‌. I just started thinking about this which is why I asked the question about how BtP might fit with the CP discussion.

Nazon_Katts

@Ysne58 seems we're getting 100 crowns per month of prior subscription extra. Yet again, this seems to be on the very low end to me.

Considering people let their subs run for several months in good faith none of their progression would be lost and might not have stayed subbed, if they had knewn otherwise, ZOS should look at a couple of months worth of crowns instead.

Giving not even a full months worth of crowns for a full year doesn't send the right message, methinks.

Lord_Draevan

ZOS has been saying "The Champion system will launch with Tamriel Unlimited". By that, do they mean that Veteran Ranks will be gone entirely in March, i.e that max level will be level 50?

Enodoc

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

ZOS has been saying "The Champion system will launch with Tamriel Unlimited". By that, do they mean that Veteran Ranks will be gone entirely in March, i.e that max level will be level 50?

No, they said "The Champion system will launch with Tamriel Unlimited". Removal of Veteran Ranks is not part of the Champion System. CS is Phase 3 of the Veteran Overhaul, removal of VRs is Phase 4.

I think it's quite likely though that VRs will be gone before the actual console launch in June.

Languish4567

I only have one VT14+, stopped my alt at VT1 because I expected some crap like this given the issues over the past year, so I'm down with the 75 CP, my only problem is that my one VT 14+, that took well over 14 million experience to get there btw probably closer to 80 million exp in a much more difficult game, has done all of the game content, soooooo I get 75 CP and have to do a butt ton of grinding to try gain CP because this comes with no new content. YAY hours of killing hoards of enemies in crag that are so nerfed you can solo them. That sounds like a good time, or I can level an alt through content I have already finished, even better. Awesome sauce ZOS, seriously great job.

hazune

Hello @ZOS_GinaBruno,
i have qestion ?
If a have Vr14 and Vr6.
I get 70 chempion Point at start 1.6.
When i log to Vr6 and spend 10 point to chempion system,
for Vr14 left me 60 chempion point? or i can spend 70 on my Vr14 and relog to Vr6 then left me 0 chempion point?

Ysne58

hazune wrote: »

Hello @ZOS_GinaBruno,
i have qestion ?
If a have Vr14 and Vr6.
I get 70 chempion Point at start 1.6.
When i log to Vr6 and spend 10 point to chempion system,
for Vr14 left me 60 chempion point? or i can spend 70 on my Vr14 and relog to Vr6 then left me 0 chempion point?

@hazune‌ that cp pool is account wide, each of your characters will have 70 points if that is what you qualify for when 1.6 goes live. This has been answered over and over and over and over...

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

I don't get how people are still confused over the CP 'pool' idea, it's been explained ad nauseum by ZOS and others since the day CPs were announced.

The only point that is even mildly confusing is ZOS explanation about the initial 'call off' (or however it was they phrased it) when the explaining how only characters that exist on the day 1.6 launches can do that: no idea why the restriction exists because at least one toon has to exist at VR1 or higher to qualify for the initial allotment so logging it in is hardly a chore.

ZOS managed to confused a LOT of people over that simple concept, to begin with.

Sacadon

I wondered the same... But thought this thread just got derailed till now. Guessing it's a byproduct of giving bits and pieces verbally (glad they did) or the written forum post (again glad).

Regardless of how simple a concept, most people are visual learners first and foremost and I don't mean those of us that can do it in our heads.

Next time ZOS has a new something to release, I suspect they'll give us more fluffy pictures up until they put it out on PTS. But I hope not. I'd rather they pull just some of us into the concept design stages. Here's wishing though as I don't see anyway that'll happen outside of guild summits. ))

Cody

I am disappointed I could not devote all 70 of my points to just one area of the system.

but oh well, I'm not complaining. its a welcome addition to the game in my opinion.

Valen_Byte

Honestly, I'm just not impressed. Its really not that cool. Gives us something to do I guess....meh.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Valen_Byte wrote: »

Honestly, I'm just not impressed. Its really not that cool. Gives us something to do I guess....meh.

I'm really not sure what the point is myself. It's some sort of weird hybrid leveling system. I don't understand why ZOS feels like they needed to complicate things. It's like they want to make it "look" enough like Skyrim to get the sales even if it doesn't make any sense. So far with this update I have found both the justice system and the champion system to be cheap imitations of something that the single player games did much better. Seriously, this is what took them 6 months to do? I'm not impressed.

Ysne58

I've spent a couple of hours on my vr character, not even a quarter of a cp earned.

Draehl

I LOVE the champion system, but have a few points of feedback:

1) Several of the passive bonuses are completely irrelevant to many playstyles. I thought that the options you choose are more specific and the passives are more applicable to different playstyles.

For example: Thaumaturge in The Ritual constellation. I'd like to pump my points into this, but the 3 first passives unlocked are clearly aimed towards physical builds.

and

In The Steed three of the choices are attractive: Block Expertise, Spell Shield, and Resistant. Look at the passives. Invigorating Bash & Shield Expert. Shield Expert should clearly be an active choice. Bash is a little better, but still aimed at melee builds... These super-specific bonuses need to be active choices and the general ones like Spell Resistance and Block cost need to be passives. This way players choose specific bonuses that apply their their builds/playstyles, and then unlock generic bonuses that everyone can appreciate.

2) Elemental Expert in The Apprentice constellation. Thaumaturge affects all magic, this affects only elemental. Where is the one that affects only non-specific magic damage? Crystal Shards, Strife, etc. would love a similar opportunity... Why is a clear edge being given to Fire/Frost/Lightning?

3) The Atronach active choices look very much like placeholders. You effectively gave the same bonus 4 times. Frankly, I expected more creativity here.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

The comments so far confirm my original suspicion when ZOS first talked about CPs .. they've looked at systems like Rift's Planar Attunements (PAs) and adapted that idea, which would be fine but then they cripple it by forcing you to spend points where you have no use for them and thus seriously reduce the benefits.

One big complaint in Rift when Trion added PAs to that was the horrible imbalance it creates between existing players with characters at the level at which PAs are earned and those without, and even worse new players.

The cap of 70 CPs at the outset here doesn't address that problem and in ESO like Rift there'll be a 'haves' and 'have nots' segregation for a very long time after this system goes live.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Draehl wrote: »

I LOVE the champion system, but have a few points of feedback:

1) Several of the passive bonuses are completely irrelevant to many playstyles. I thought that the options you choose are more specific and the passives are more applicable to different playstyles.

For example: Thaumaturge in The Ritual constellation. I'd like to pump my points into this, but the 3 first passives unlocked are clearly aimed towards physical builds.

and

In The Steed three of the choices are attractive: Block Expertise, Spell Shield, and Resistant. Look at the passives. Invigorating Bash & Shield Expert. Shield Expert should clearly be an active choice. Bash is a little better, but still aimed at melee builds... These super-specific bonuses need to be active choices and the general ones like Spell Resistance and Block cost need to be passives. This way players choose specific bonuses that apply their their builds/playstyles, and then unlock generic bonuses that everyone can appreciate.

2) Elemental Expert in The Apprentice constellation. Thaumaturge affects all magic, this affects only elemental. Where is the one that affects only non-specific magic damage? Crystal Shards, Strife, etc. would love a similar opportunity... Why is a clear edge being given to Fire/Frost/Lightning?

3) The Atronach active choices look very much like placeholders. You effectively gave the same bonus 4 times. Frankly, I expected more creativity here.

After looking at the trees I found most of them to be very uninspired. I'm not sure why they didn't just take the classes, open them up to everyone a la carte, and move them over to a tree system. Right now there is a very confusing mess of leveling and point systems. Do we need 50 regular levels, 14 VR levels, class lines, and now a constellation skill system along with the attribute points we get with the levels?

No wonder you had to super inflate all the stats, you have made this systems way more complicated than it ever needed to be. My question is, who asked for this? Why are you attempting to reinvent a system that has worked just fine for so many other ES games? The worst part of this is your companies instance on pigeon holing us to play a certain way. You MUST spend and equal distribution of points in all three types. Once again you put this idea that we can play the way we want, yet you restrict our character builds at every opportunity. You do this even though you have proven that your terrible at making things balanced. I was hopeful that this would be an improvement but I honestly think you're only making things worse.

Giraffon

Cody wrote: »

I am disappointed I could not devote all 70 of my points to just one area of the system.

but oh well, I'm not complaining. its a welcome addition to the game in my opinion.

I haven't been on PTS yet, but I read this and I didn't like it immediately. If I want to dump everything into a single branch, than I should be able to do that. It feels like "No Child Left Behind".

eventide03b14a_ESO

Giraffon wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

I am disappointed I could not devote all 70 of my points to just one area of the system.

but oh well, I'm not complaining. its a welcome addition to the game in my opinion.

I haven't been on PTS yet, but I read this and I didn't like it immediately. If I want to dump everything into a single branch, than I should be able to do that. It feels like "No Child Left Behind".

It' s just another part of this illusion of choice they keep presenting us. I'm just going to wait till someone figures out the best build and posts it.

Ysne58

For the "casual" player, it's too much information to keep track of.

Navaya

The Thief (green)

The Shadow -> Nimble:
"Reduce damage dealt to you by X% when you roll dodge"

That doesn't make any sense... When you roll dodge you take 0 damage to begin with, that's kinda the point of roll *Dodge*.

Shouldn't it be reduce cost of roll dodge? Now that would make sense.

HyperToxic

I very unpleased to learn that once again all my gear is useless in update 1.6. End game gear supposed to be good. Nobody is going to use Vicious Ophidian or Infallible Aether or even Aether. It makes no since that that crafted sets / random drops are better (because many sets have more spell/weapon damage).

These sets are now useless now because crit has been severely nerfed. The new way of generating lots of damage is by stacking sets that add weapon or spell damage something end game trial gear does not have lots of.

Trial gear is supposed to be good. Even if you add new trial gear people are going to be pissed and unsub because they spent months farming good gear, and for what nothing?

Damage Enchants have been nerfed as well...

I was expecting Sorc to get buffed - instead they got nerfed because Surge is not useless now that all classes get the same buff from mages guild Entropy...

Please tell me this is an accident and it will be resolved…

eventide03b14a_ESO

HyperToxic wrote: »

I very unpleased to learn that once again all my gear is useless in update 1.6. End game gear supposed to be good. Nobody is going to use Vicious Ophidian or Infallible Aether or even Aether. It makes no since that that crafted sets / random drops are better (because many sets have more spell/weapon damage).

These sets are now useless now because crit has been severely nerfed. The new way of generating lots of damage is by stacking sets that add weapon or spell damage something end game trial gear does not have lots of.

Trial gear is supposed to be good. Even if you add new trial gear people are going to be pissed and unsub because they spent months farming good gear, and for what nothing?

Damage Enchants have been nerfed as well...

I was expecting Sorc to get buffed - instead they got nerfed because Surge is not useless now that all classes get the same buff from mages guild Entropy...

Please tell me this is an accident and it will be resolved…

I feel for you, but you already know they aren't going to do a damn thing about it.

timidobserver

HyperToxic wrote: »

I very unpleased to learn that once again all my gear is useless in update 1.6. End game gear supposed to be good. Nobody is going to use Vicious Ophidian or Infallible Aether or even Aether. It makes no since that that crafted sets / random drops are better (because many sets have more spell/weapon damage).

These sets are now useless now because crit has been severely nerfed. The new way of generating lots of damage is by stacking sets that add weapon or spell damage something end game trial gear does not have lots of.

Trial gear is supposed to be good. Even if you add new trial gear people are going to be pissed and unsub because they spent months farming good gear, and for what nothing?

Damage Enchants have been nerfed as well...

I was expecting Sorc to get buffed - instead they got nerfed because Surge is not useless now that all classes get the same buff from mages guild Entropy...

Please tell me this is an accident and it will be resolved…

The crit on all sets including pvp sets, end game sets, and crafted sets was nerfed not just crafted. In reality, the best gear in the game is actually trials gear. Hardmode trials gear has better set bonuses than normal.