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Feedback to the Champion System
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Layenem✭✭✭✭kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »badmojo0777b14_ESO wrote: »kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »About being unfair to people with multiple V14's, it never mattered to the strength of the character in-game how many characters the player had "on the bench". So compensating for all of them would create a power difference where none existed before and that nobody had reason to anticipate (not even after the announcement of the CP system).
The primary reason of the whole discussion here is not being more or less strong. That, has no importance to me. For instance, I developed 5 VR14 toons in different factions (2 AD, 2 EP and 1 DC), for one and sole reason: to play with all my friends. Actually, the first time I went to Cyrodiil, I already had two VR14... Neither I developed 5 VR14 to acquire more or less CP at the transition. The whole point here is to have what you deserve by your own effort and time investment.
I'll give an example of how bad this choice is for someone like me. As I've said, I have 5 VR14, by completing quests (Cadwell's Silver and Gold and Craglorn), dungeons, pledges, destroying multiple times Dark Anchors and World Bosses, etc. Yes, with one of them (an EP toon), I "grinded" in Craglorn; then this toon still is in Greenshade doing Cadwell's Gold quests. This character, my last VR14 (and the less developed of all of my VR14), have at the moment, almost 7000 achievements points and is already Undaunted 8 ...
As for the others toons, well..., I have two with more than 10k achievements, finished DSA Veteran, 250 Dark Anchors (Enemy of Coldharbor and Daedric Lord Slayer titles) and they are Undaunted 9... (with one of them I've never played in Cyrodiil...), and I have at least 3 toons without any Cadwell's Silver and Gold quests to do (yep, I finished everything, including side quests).
When the system change, How will I have to acquire CP with these toons? Since I'll have less opportunity to acquire my CP (don't have quests to turn or do), I'll have to do something that I always hated: grinding.
I totally understand you and agree, however there are hordes of ppl who will lose very little who just don't want you or I to be compensated. It's that simple. It was a [snip] choice by ZoS and they chose the majority over the loyal long term players.
majority? over the "long term loyal players? WRONG. many of my gaming friends and myself have been playing since PTS. most of us have atleast 1 VR 14 and some of us have anywhere form 2 to 4 VR14s. Not many players level 8 friggin VR14s. you ARE NOT the majority and you are no more loyal to this game than myself and many others. if they XP tracked my VR`14 Dragonknight and Vr14 Nightblade I dare say I have accumulated as much if not more experience points/activity than anyone with 8 VR14s. we play our 1 or 2 toons just as hard as any player who doesn't have the skill for end game content, and has nothing better to do than level alt after alt after alt. you've leveled 8 characters 8 times thru the same content. WHOOPITY DOOO while the MAJORITY of us were playing our main 1 or 2 characters thru cyrodiil, veteran dungeons, delves, trials and DSA. we play just as hard if not more so, we just don't spread it out over 8 toons. you haven't played anymore, and you definitely haven't played anything more difficult and you have accomplished anything special, you don't DESERVE anything extra. youre going to get 70 character points for eveyr single toon you've got, just like we will and we all earned it. no one is getting screwed
do you honestly think that someone with 1 or 2 VR14s is going to start making alts to do low level low experience gaining quests and kill for CHARACTER POINTS? why would anyone with VR14s, and access to VR experience points with repeatable daily, dungeons, high level grinding, trials and delves even touch a level 1 quest ? VR14 trash will be worth more character points, than entire low level quest lines.
Re-read your ranting so that you may see the various flaws you instituted just now.
I'm BEGGING to be enlightened to the flaws.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on May 19, 2024 11:30AM1 -
DanielMaxwell✭✭✭badmojo0777b14_ESO wrote: »kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »About being unfair to people with multiple V14's, it never mattered to the strength of the character in-game how many characters the player had "on the bench". So compensating for all of them would create a power difference where none existed before and that nobody had reason to anticipate (not even after the announcement of the CP system).
The primary reason of the whole discussion here is not being more or less strong. That, has no importance to me. For instance, I developed 5 VR14 toons in different factions (2 AD, 2 EP and 1 DC), for one and sole reason: to play with all my friends. Actually, the first time I went to Cyrodiil, I already had two VR14... Neither I developed 5 VR14 to acquire more or less CP at the transition. The whole point here is to have what you deserve by your own effort and time investment.
I'll give an example of how bad this choice is for someone like me. As I've said, I have 5 VR14, by completing quests (Cadwell's Silver and Gold and Craglorn), dungeons, pledges, destroying multiple times Dark Anchors and World Bosses, etc. Yes, with one of them (an EP toon), I "grinded" in Craglorn; then this toon still is in Greenshade doing Cadwell's Gold quests. This character, my last VR14 (and the less developed of all of my VR14), have at the moment, almost 7000 achievements points and is already Undaunted 8 ...
As for the others toons, well..., I have two with more than 10k achievements, finished DSA Veteran, 250 Dark Anchors (Enemy of Coldharbor and Daedric Lord Slayer titles) and they are Undaunted 9... (with one of them I've never played in Cyrodiil...), and I have at least 3 toons without any Cadwell's Silver and Gold quests to do (yep, I finished everything, including side quests).
When the system change, How will I have to acquire CP with these toons? Since I'll have less opportunity to acquire my CP (don't have quests to turn or do), I'll have to do something that I always hated: grinding.
I totally understand you and agree, however there are hordes of ppl who will lose very little who just don't want you or I to be compensated. It's that simple. It was a [snip] choice by ZoS and they chose the majority over the loyal long term players.
majority? over the "long term loyal players? WRONG. many of my gaming friends and myself have been playing since PTS. most of us have atleast 1 VR 14 and some of us have anywhere form 2 to 4 VR14s. Not many players level 8 friggin VR14s. you ARE NOT the majority and you are no more loyal to this game than myself and many others. if they XP tracked my VR`14 Dragonknight and Vr14 Nightblade I dare say I have accumulated as much if not more experience points/activity than anyone with 8 VR14s. we play our 1 or 2 toons just as hard as any player who doesn't have the skill for end game content, and has nothing better to do than level alt after alt after alt. you've leveled 8 characters 8 times thru the same content. WHOOPITY DOOO while the MAJORITY of us were playing our main 1 or 2 characters thru cyrodiil, veteran dungeons, delves, trials and DSA. we play just as hard if not more so, we just don't spread it out over 8 toons. you haven't played anymore, and you definitely haven't played anything more difficult and you have accomplished anything special, you don't DESERVE anything extra. youre going to get 70 character points for eveyr single toon you've got, just like we will and we all earned it. no one is getting screwed
do you honestly think that someone with 1 or 2 VR14s is going to start making alts to do low level low experience gaining quests and kill for CHARACTER POINTS? why would anyone with VR14s, and access to VR experience points with repeatable daily, dungeons, high level grinding, trials and delves even touch a level 1 quest ? VR14 trash will be worth more character points, than entire low level quest lines.
Level 1-49 content does not provide any progression in the champion system only the level 50 and up content does .
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on May 19, 2024 11:27AM3 -
Artemiisia✭✭✭✭✭
✭one thing thats on my mind on the whole roll back and switching the system
right now City of Ash is a vr14 dungeon and drops vr14 gear
when we all are running around as veteran level 1 (champions)
what happens with the gear progression, and how will we be able to see the difference
also right now if you got four vr 1 into City of Ash, they die
so how will I be able to see if people really is as strong as they say they are when suddenly all is running around as champions
will there be some visibility in order to know how many cp points people have spend or what?0 -
javier_cortijopreeb18_ESOSoul ShrivenPlayer A has one VR 14 and 3 x VR 1, he can spend 70 points in each character. A total of 280 points.
Player B has 4 x VR 14. He has exactly the same points, doesn't matter what VR are his chars as long as they are VR,
I understand there are reasons for this and I don't really mind what system is chosen, but the truth is that Player B is right if he says that champion point-wise the leveling of 3 chars above VR1 is lost, it's just mathematics.
4 -
ebls_BR✭✭✭badmojo0777b14_ESO wrote: »kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »About being unfair to people with multiple V14's, it never mattered to the strength of the character in-game how many characters the player had "on the bench". So compensating for all of them would create a power difference where none existed before and that nobody had reason to anticipate (not even after the announcement of the CP system).
The primary reason of the whole discussion here is not being more or less strong. That, has no importance to me. For instance, I developed 5 VR14 toons in different factions (2 AD, 2 EP and 1 DC), for one and sole reason: to play with all my friends. Actually, the first time I went to Cyrodiil, I already had two VR14... Neither I developed 5 VR14 to acquire more or less CP at the transition. The whole point here is to have what you deserve by your own effort and time investment.
I'll give an example of how bad this choice is for someone like me. As I've said, I have 5 VR14, by completing quests (Cadwell's Silver and Gold and Craglorn), dungeons, pledges, destroying multiple times Dark Anchors and World Bosses, etc. Yes, with one of them (an EP toon), I "grinded" in Craglorn; then this toon still is in Greenshade doing Cadwell's Gold quests. This character, my last VR14 (and the less developed of all of my VR14), have at the moment, almost 7000 achievements points and is already Undaunted 8 ...
As for the others toons, well..., I have two with more than 10k achievements, finished DSA Veteran, 250 Dark Anchors (Enemy of Coldharbor and Daedric Lord Slayer titles) and they are Undaunted 9... (with one of them I've never played in Cyrodiil...), and I have at least 3 toons without any Cadwell's Silver and Gold quests to do (yep, I finished everything, including side quests).
When the system change, How will I have to acquire CP with these toons? Since I'll have less opportunity to acquire my CP (don't have quests to turn or do), I'll have to do something that I always hated: grinding.
I totally understand you and agree, however there are hordes of ppl who will lose very little who just don't want you or I to be compensated. It's that simple. It was a [snip] choice by ZoS and they chose the majority over the loyal long term players.
majority? over the "long term loyal players? WRONG. many of my gaming friends and myself have been playing since PTS. most of us have atleast 1 VR 14 and some of us have anywhere form 2 to 4 VR14s. Not many players level 8 friggin VR14s. you ARE NOT the majority and you are no more loyal to this game than myself and many others. if they XP tracked my VR`14 Dragonknight and Vr14 Nightblade I dare say I have accumulated as much if not more experience points/activity than anyone with 8 VR14s. we play our 1 or 2 toons just as hard as any player who doesn't have the skill for end game content, and has nothing better to do than level alt after alt after alt. you've leveled 8 characters 8 times thru the same content. WHOOPITY DOOO while the MAJORITY of us were playing our main 1 or 2 characters thru cyrodiil, veteran dungeons, delves, trials and DSA. we play just as hard if not more so, we just don't spread it out over 8 toons. you haven't played anymore, and you definitely haven't played anything more difficult and you have accomplished anything special, you don't DESERVE anything extra. youre going to get 70 character points for eveyr single toon you've got, just like we will and we all earned it. no one is getting screwed
do you honestly think that someone with 1 or 2 VR14s is going to start making alts to do low level low experience gaining quests and kill for CHARACTER POINTS? why would anyone with VR14s, and access to VR experience points with repeatable daily, dungeons, high level grinding, trials and delves even touch a level 1 quest ? VR14 trash will be worth more character points, than entire low level quest lines.
First, I can't judge if someone doing veteran quests (VR 1-10) should get or earn less, than someone doing repeatedly veteran dungeons or trials. Playing something more difficult do not make you more special or made you deserve more necessarily. But I know something: if two VR14 have the same amount of XP or if they have done the same quests, they should earn the same. Someone should not earn less just because he has two VR14 instead of one. And if you pay attention in everything what I said..., I, and I'm sure others too, usually play end game content with all ours alt toons. Like I've said, I finished DSA vet with two toons, run trials with 4 of them, Cyrodiil with 3, etc. I have at least 4 characters with 3 or more professions at level 50... (two Master enchantment for instance), more than 6,9K achievments with each VR14 (one has more than 10K).
And there are a lot of reasons to make alt chars and play all the quests again if you don't know. Maybe, someday you'll see this... First, to play with friends in different factions or alliances. Imagine a sister who plays in AD, a cousin playing in DC and a friend playing in EP... They are more loyal than you to their factions or have less time, and you want to play with them... So you make a second and a third toon. Second reason: classes. We have four, and I don't know about you, but I like to play with all, DK, Sorcerer, Templar and NB.
This is an The Elder Scrolls game right? I'm not an expert, but I've been playing TES since Morrowind, and I may have at least 1000 hours on each game (check my Steam account, same id...). So playing alts toons, doing all early quests, appreciate music, landscapes, trying different solutions, is as good at level 3 in Auridon, Glenumbra or Stonefalls, as at VR14 in Craglorn. Also, playing with a Dunmer in EP, or a Breton in DC, or a Bosmer in AD faction, is a totally different RPG experience. Actually, if you pay attention to the dialogues, situations, etc. you'll see even some quests we have different dialogues, answers, etc. from NPC's if you choose a different race. For instance, in Auridon, that quest Harsh Lessons, on that College of Aldmeri Propriety, you have different answers from Tanion, if you are a Bosmer/Khajiit, or if you are a foreing (a Breton or an Imperial, for exemple) or if you are an Altmer.
But that's not the real issue here. One day, you will want to level a Templar or a Sorcerer, right? Or maybe, some of your friends want to change the faction... Or even better, you make new friends in other factions, eager for do trials, pledges and Cyrodiil PVP... So, you will feel the need to make or level an alt. I'm sure you will want to be fairly rewarded for everything you'll do with them, won't you? Having your CP for all your quests done and XP, exactly like you have with your skill points, your gold, your alliance points, your achievements, etc. Yeah, me too. The difference is... I've already done. They are making the same mistake they've done with the undaunted skill line, with more disregard, IMO.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on May 19, 2024 11:28AM2 -
my point is that you aren't doing anymore on your 8 toons, than anyone else on their 1 or 2 toons. there are plenty of ways to earn champion points. leveling probably being the LEAST efficient and most minimal xp/character point gain. you aren't losing anything. no one who wants to earn champion points would do it by leveling an alt.badmojo0777b14_ESO wrote: »kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »About being unfair to people with multiple V14's, it never mattered to the strength of the character in-game how many characters the player had "on the bench". So compensating for all of them would create a power difference where none existed before and that nobody had reason to anticipate (not even after the announcement of the CP system).
The primary reason of the whole discussion here is not being more or less strong. That, has no importance to me. For instance, I developed 5 VR14 toons in different factions (2 AD, 2 EP and 1 DC), for one and sole reason: to play with all my friends. Actually, the first time I went to Cyrodiil, I already had two VR14... Neither I developed 5 VR14 to acquire more or less CP at the transition. The whole point here is to have what you deserve by your own effort and time investment.
I'll give an example of how bad this choice is for someone like me. As I've said, I have 5 VR14, by completing quests (Cadwell's Silver and Gold and Craglorn), dungeons, pledges, destroying multiple times Dark Anchors and World Bosses, etc. Yes, with one of them (an EP toon), I "grinded" in Craglorn; then this toon still is in Greenshade doing Cadwell's Gold quests. This character, my last VR14 (and the less developed of all of my VR14), have at the moment, almost 7000 achievements points and is already Undaunted 8 ...
As for the others toons, well..., I have two with more than 10k achievements, finished DSA Veteran, 250 Dark Anchors (Enemy of Coldharbor and Daedric Lord Slayer titles) and they are Undaunted 9... (with one of them I've never played in Cyrodiil...), and I have at least 3 toons without any Cadwell's Silver and Gold quests to do (yep, I finished everything, including side quests).
When the system change, How will I have to acquire CP with these toons? Since I'll have less opportunity to acquire my CP (don't have quests to turn or do), I'll have to do something that I always hated: grinding.
I totally understand you and agree, however there are hordes of ppl who will lose very little who just don't want you or I to be compensated. It's that simple. It was a [snip] choice by ZoS and they chose the majority over the loyal long term players.
majority? over the "long term loyal players? WRONG. many of my gaming friends and myself have been playing since PTS. most of us have atleast 1 VR 14 and some of us have anywhere form 2 to 4 VR14s. Not many players level 8 friggin VR14s. you ARE NOT the majority and you are no more loyal to this game than myself and many others. if they XP tracked my VR`14 Dragonknight and Vr14 Nightblade I dare say I have accumulated as much if not more experience points/activity than anyone with 8 VR14s. we play our 1 or 2 toons just as hard as any player who doesn't have the skill for end game content, and has nothing better to do than level alt after alt after alt. you've leveled 8 characters 8 times thru the same content. WHOOPITY DOOO while the MAJORITY of us were playing our main 1 or 2 characters thru cyrodiil, veteran dungeons, delves, trials and DSA. we play just as hard if not more so, we just don't spread it out over 8 toons. you haven't played anymore, and you definitely haven't played anything more difficult and you have accomplished anything special, you don't DESERVE anything extra. youre going to get 70 character points for eveyr single toon you've got, just like we will and we all earned it. no one is getting screwed
do you honestly think that someone with 1 or 2 VR14s is going to start making alts to do low level low experience gaining quests and kill for CHARACTER POINTS? why would anyone with VR14s, and access to VR experience points with repeatable daily, dungeons, high level grinding, trials and delves even touch a level 1 quest ? VR14 trash will be worth more character points, than entire low level quest lines.
First, I can't judge if someone doing veteran quests (VR 1-10) should get or earn less, than someone doing repeatedly veteran dungeons or trials. Playing something more difficult do not make you more special or made you deserve more necessarily. But I know something: if two VR14 have the same amount of XP or if they have done the same quests, they should earn the same. Someone should not earn less just because he has two VR14 instead of one. And if you pay attention in everything what I said..., I, and I'm sure others too, usually play end game content with all ours alt toons. Like I've said, I finished DSA vet with two toons, run trials with 4 of them, Cyrodiil with 3, etc. I have at least 4 characters with 3 or more professions at level 50... (two Master enchantment for instance), more than 6,9K achievments with each VR14 (one has more than 10K).
And there are a lot of reasons to make alt chars and play all the quests again if you don't know. Maybe, someday you'll see this... First, to play with friends in different factions or alliances. Imagine a sister who plays in AD, a cousin playing in DC and a friend playing in EP... They are more loyal than you to their factions or have less time, and you want to play with them... So you make a second and a third toon. Second reason: classes. We have four, and I don't know about you, but I like to play with all, DK, Sorcerer, Templar and NB.
This is an The Elder Scrolls game right? I'm not an expert, but I've been playing TES since Morrowind, and I may have at least 1000 hours on each game (check my Steam account, same id...). So playing alts toons, doing all early quests, appreciate music, landscapes, trying different solutions, is as good at level 3 in Auridon, Glenumbra or Stonefalls, as at VR14 in Craglorn. Also, playing with a Dunmer in EP, or a Breton in DC, or a Bosmer in AD faction, is a totally different RPG experience. Actually, if you pay attention to the dialogues, situations, etc. you'll see even some quests we have different dialogues, answers, etc. from NPC's if you choose a different race. For instance, in Auridon, that quest Harsh Lessons, on that College of Aldmeri Propriety, you have different answers from Tanion, if you are a Bosmer/Khajiit, or if you are a foreing (a Breton or an Imperial, for exemple) or if you are an Altmer.
But that's not the real issue here. One day, you will want to level a Templar or a Sorcerer, right? Or maybe, some of your friends want to change the faction... Or even better, you make new friends in other factions, eager for do trials, pledges and Cyrodiil PVP... So, you will feel the need to make or level an alt. I'm sure you will want to be fairly rewarded for everything you'll do with them, won't you? Having your CP for all your quests done and XP, exactly like you have with your skill points, your gold, your alliance points, your achievements, etc. Yeah, me too. The difference is... I've already done. They are making the same mistake they've done with the undaunted skill line, with more disregard, IMO.
my point is that you aren't doing anymore on your 8 toons, than anyone else on their 1 or 2 toons. there are plenty of ways to earn champion points. leveling a low level ALT probably being the LEAST efficient and most minimal xp/character point gain. you aren't losing anything. no one who wants to earn champion points would do it by leveling an alt.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on May 19, 2024 11:31AM1 -
Artemiisia wrote: »one thing thats on my mind on the whole roll back and switching the system
right now City of Ash is a vr14 dungeon and drops vr14 gear
when we all are running around as veteran level 1 (champions)
what happens with the gear progression, and how will we be able to see the difference
also right now if you got four vr 1 into City of Ash, they die
so how will I be able to see if people really is as strong as they say they are when suddenly all is running around as champions
will there be some visibility in order to know how many cp points people have spend or what?
one has to believe that they are scaling ALL of the dungeons to some form of level 50. just my guess, just like the gear and crafting.1 -
Audigy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Mountainrunnin3 wrote: »So what would the Campion points be used for? Cool veteran players get Champion points, but what benefits does that imply?
CP´s are what new Content will be balanced at. With 1.6 they balance it at 30 CP based on a statement by KaiSchober.
So lets assume they add Wrothgar with 1.8. That content could then require 120 CP´s as it would be balanced around that. A player with 0 CP wont be able to go there, as he simply put would instantly die.
A player with 250 CP would have a walk in the park.
Its pretty much like the old VR system was, if you want to play in the new content then having a lot of CP´s is required.0 -
kelly.medleyb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭badmojo0777b14_ESO wrote: »kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »badmojo0777b14_ESO wrote: »kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »About being unfair to people with multiple V14's, it never mattered to the strength of the character in-game how many characters the player had "on the bench". So compensating for all of them would create a power difference where none existed before and that nobody had reason to anticipate (not even after the announcement of the CP system).
The primary reason of the whole discussion here is not being more or less strong. That, has no importance to me. For instance, I developed 5 VR14 toons in different factions (2 AD, 2 EP and 1 DC), for one and sole reason: to play with all my friends. Actually, the first time I went to Cyrodiil, I already had two VR14... Neither I developed 5 VR14 to acquire more or less CP at the transition. The whole point here is to have what you deserve by your own effort and time investment.
I'll give an example of how bad this choice is for someone like me. As I've said, I have 5 VR14, by completing quests (Cadwell's Silver and Gold and Craglorn), dungeons, pledges, destroying multiple times Dark Anchors and World Bosses, etc. Yes, with one of them (an EP toon), I "grinded" in Craglorn; then this toon still is in Greenshade doing Cadwell's Gold quests. This character, my last VR14 (and the less developed of all of my VR14), have at the moment, almost 7000 achievements points and is already Undaunted 8 ...
As for the others toons, well..., I have two with more than 10k achievements, finished DSA Veteran, 250 Dark Anchors (Enemy of Coldharbor and Daedric Lord Slayer titles) and they are Undaunted 9... (with one of them I've never played in Cyrodiil...), and I have at least 3 toons without any Cadwell's Silver and Gold quests to do (yep, I finished everything, including side quests).
When the system change, How will I have to acquire CP with these toons? Since I'll have less opportunity to acquire my CP (don't have quests to turn or do), I'll have to do something that I always hated: grinding.
I totally understand you and agree, however there are hordes of ppl who will lose very little who just don't want you or I to be compensated. It's that simple. It was a [snip] choice by ZoS and they chose the majority over the loyal long term players.
majority? over the "long term loyal players? WRONG. many of my gaming friends and myself have been playing since PTS. most of us have atleast 1 VR 14 and some of us have anywhere form 2 to 4 VR14s. Not many players level 8 friggin VR14s. you ARE NOT the majority and you are no more loyal to this game than myself and many others. if they XP tracked my VR`14 Dragonknight and Vr14 Nightblade I dare say I have accumulated as much if not more experience points/activity than anyone with 8 VR14s. we play our 1 or 2 toons just as hard as any player who doesn't have the skill for end game content, and has nothing better to do than level alt after alt after alt. you've leveled 8 characters 8 times thru the same content. WHOOPITY DOOO while the MAJORITY of us were playing our main 1 or 2 characters thru cyrodiil, veteran dungeons, delves, trials and DSA. we play just as hard if not more so, we just don't spread it out over 8 toons. you haven't played anymore, and you definitely haven't played anything more difficult and you have accomplished anything special, you don't DESERVE anything extra. youre going to get 70 character points for eveyr single toon you've got, just like we will and we all earned it. no one is getting screwed
do you honestly think that someone with 1 or 2 VR14s is going to start making alts to do low level low experience gaining quests and kill for CHARACTER POINTS? why would anyone with VR14s, and access to VR experience points with repeatable daily, dungeons, high level grinding, trials and delves even touch a level 1 quest ? VR14 trash will be worth more character points, than entire low level quest lines.
Re-read your ranting so that you may see the various flaws you instituted just now.
how about you tell me these so called flaws. cuz the only people seeing flaws are those with 8 Vr14s who want extra for doin the same content ove rand over, compared to a Vr14 who plays just as hard excelling at end game content. people with ALTITIS don't deserve anything extra for doing the same content over and over, and those with open slots gain no advantage to gaining character points by having available alt slots
False. People with 2 vr14 still lose a TON of hours advancement. This is one of many flaws in your thinking. You don't even realize you are being robbed of hundreds of hours of advancement by having more than ONE v14 therefore you are in no position to argue either way.But I know something: if two VR14 have the same amount of XP or if they have done the same quests, they should earn the same. Someone should not earn less just because he has two VR14 instead of one.
Please elaborate on this, explain to me like I'm five.javier_cortijopreeb18_ESO wrote: »Player A has one VR 14 and 3 x VR 1, he can spend 70 points in each character. A total of 280 points.
Player B has 4 x VR 14. He has exactly the same points, doesn't matter what VR are his chars as long as they are VR,
I understand there are reasons for this and I don't really mind what system is chosen, but the truth is that Player B is right if he says that champion point-wise the leveling of 3 chars above VR1 is lost, it's just mathematics.
^ This, however what I think you and maybe others are missing is that it starts sooner than that. Even if you only have TWO VR 14 you STILL lose a WHOLE characters worth of progression. It compounds with each toon you have over VR 1 after that. Heck even if you have ONE VR 14 and a couple of VR6s you still lose hours and hours and hours of progression.
I want a guinea pig pet please.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on May 19, 2024 11:32AM0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »badmojo0777b14_ESO wrote: »how about you tell me these so called flaws. cuz the only people seeing flaws are those with 8 Vr14s who want extra for doin the same content ove rand over, compared to a Vr14 who plays just as hard excelling at end game content. people with ALTITIS don't deserve anything extra for doing the same content over and over, and those with open slots gain no advantage to gaining character points by having available alt slots
False. People with 2 vr14 still lose a TON of hours advancement. This is one of many flaws in your thinking. You don't even realize you are being robbed of hundreds of hours of advancement by having more than ONE v14 therefore you are in no position to argue either way.
Take two players, who both have earned 100 millions of XP. However one of the players has two alts with 50 millions XP each, while the ther only has one character, and all those 100mil XP are on that one.
If ZOS would give 70 CP for each maxed-out alt you have, then the first player would get twice the CP, despite having put the same 'hours of advancement' into the game as the second. This is clearly unfair.
1 -
Skexis✭
My doubts and excitement, I have hard time reading as a prophecy. A friendly advice to give it shot as it was meant to be, obviously did'nt get through.Silleevad1 wrote: »
It's okay for you to put forth a prophecy that espouses this as the greatest thing since sliced bread, but it's not okay for someone else to issue a contrary prophecy. That's what I got out of your "very excited" comment.
If I were you I would save my disapointment or prophesies until I tried the system.
I personally have no doubt that in the end it will enhance gameplay, wether you are new, old or alting.
Themepark MMO's however succesfull they have been, they show their age. This is a "different" approach that I am very excited about, and it deserves a chance.
/Skexis
With that said this is extremly off topic and even if I find your comment rather glib, I stand corrected.
/Skexis
0 -
Artemiisia✭✭✭✭✭
✭badmojo0777b14_ESO wrote: »Artemiisia wrote: »one thing thats on my mind on the whole roll back and switching the system
right now City of Ash is a vr14 dungeon and drops vr14 gear
when we all are running around as veteran level 1 (champions)
what happens with the gear progression, and how will we be able to see the difference
also right now if you got four vr 1 into City of Ash, they die
so how will I be able to see if people really is as strong as they say they are when suddenly all is running around as champions
will there be some visibility in order to know how many cp points people have spend or what?
one has to believe that they are scaling ALL of the dungeons to some form of level 50. just my guess, just like the gear and crafting.
I really hope not, there still needs to be some sort of progression in difficulty for sure, and a way to see if its a fresh champion that cant cut it in those dungeons.
like in trails there needs to be a way to see who can cut it and who is there for the free ride.0 -
DezIsDead✭✭✭✭First positive thing I've read in a week! Thank you ZOS! Now be smart and change around the sorc skill lines! I don't want to use pets, but using just a staff is kinda meh. Let me use my class skills and still be effective! Either way Ty for listening to the masses on this subject.Dez Is Dead vr16 AD Sorc
Rez Dez vr16 DC sorc
Aimer Cantentius VR16 DC NB AKA Needs Vigor
Vanreimus Comeback DC DK
Ihealedurmum VR8 AD temp
Unonti VR crafting sloot
Zoschasedawaymyfweinds EP Temp0 -
kelly.medleyb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »badmojo0777b14_ESO wrote: »how about you tell me these so called flaws. cuz the only people seeing flaws are those with 8 Vr14s who want extra for doin the same content ove rand over, compared to a Vr14 who plays just as hard excelling at end game content. people with ALTITIS don't deserve anything extra for doing the same content over and over, and those with open slots gain no advantage to gaining character points by having available alt slots
False. People with 2 vr14 still lose a TON of hours advancement. This is one of many flaws in your thinking. You don't even realize you are being robbed of hundreds of hours of advancement by having more than ONE v14 therefore you are in no position to argue either way.
Take two players, who both have earned 100 millions of XP. However one of the players has two alts with 50 millions XP each, while the ther only has one character, and all those 100mil XP are on that one.
If ZOS would give 70 CP for each maxed-out alt you have, then the first player would get twice the CP, despite having put the same 'hours of advancement' into the game as the second. This is clearly unfair.
False. The hours spent in the game regardless of distribution is being cut off at vr14 (fresh) + Vr6ish so people with 2 VR14's if you want to talk FAIR should get more than 70 CP or some other compensation.
I want a guinea pig pet.0 -
javier_cortijopreeb18_ESOSoul Shrivenkelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »^ This, however what I think you and maybe others are missing is that it starts sooner than that.
I'm not missing anything, thanks, I'm as capable of multiplying 70 x 4 as I am of 70 x 2. It's just that I don't see those levels as an inversion, rather well as time I enjoyed playing.
I would consider more fair one champ point per added VR of all account chars (0 for no VR -112 maximum for 8 x VR14), but if that doesn't happen I'll be perfectly happy anyway.
PD. I have 3 x VR 14 and 1 x VR 1, just because I wanted to try and play all classes in Ciirodyl.
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Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »badmojo0777b14_ESO wrote: »how about you tell me these so called flaws. cuz the only people seeing flaws are those with 8 Vr14s who want extra for doin the same content ove rand over, compared to a Vr14 who plays just as hard excelling at end game content. people with ALTITIS don't deserve anything extra for doing the same content over and over, and those with open slots gain no advantage to gaining character points by having available alt slots
False. People with 2 vr14 still lose a TON of hours advancement. This is one of many flaws in your thinking. You don't even realize you are being robbed of hundreds of hours of advancement by having more than ONE v14 therefore you are in no position to argue either way.
Take two players, who both have earned 100 millions of XP. However one of the players has two alts with 50 millions XP each, while the ther only has one character, and all those 100mil XP are on that one.
If ZOS would give 70 CP for each maxed-out alt you have, then the first player would get twice the CP, despite having put the same 'hours of advancement' into the game as the second. This is clearly unfair.
False. The hours spent in the game regardless of distribution is being cut off at vr14 (fresh) + Vr6ish so people with 2 VR14's if you want to talk FAIR should get more than 70 CP or some other compensation.
I want a guinea pig pet.
What false? Hours spent in game are hours spent in game, nothing is being cut off anywhere. If you want compensation for a guy who spent those hours on two characters, but deny the same compensation for a guy who spent the same hours but only on a single character, then you are being unfair to the latter, plain and simple.1 -
Giraffon✭✭✭✭✭
✭As we reflect on how much game time we have invested, I want to share a comment one of my guild members recently made:
"Time enjoyed is never wasted."
Giraffon - Beta Lizard - For the Pact!1 -
Enodoc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This would be a non-issue if Champion Points were character-bound... but they are account-wide, because that's the point of the System.
Turning something character-bound (Veteran Ranks) into something account-wide (Champion Points) will need some form of compensation so that people who have put in an amount of time to more characters do not have an advantage over people who put the same amount of time into one character. The current plan is the fairest way to make that compensation IMO.UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
Join us on Discord - discord.gg/uesp4 -
Nazon_Katts✭✭✭✭✭This would be a non-issue if Champion Points were character-bound... but they are account-wide, because that's the point of the System.
Turning something character-bound (Veteran Ranks) into something account-wide (Champion Points) will need some form of compensation so that people who have put in an amount of time to more characters do not have an advantage over people who put the same amount of time into one character. The current plan is the fairest way to make that compensation IMO.
We get 2% progression for one year playing. This would only be fair, if the system was supposed to run for another 49 years.
"You've probably figured that out by now. Let's hope so. Or we're in real trouble... and out come the intestines. And I skip rope with them!"1 -
kelly.medleyb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Nazon_Katts wrote: »This would be a non-issue if Champion Points were character-bound... but they are account-wide, because that's the point of the System.
Turning something character-bound (Veteran Ranks) into something account-wide (Champion Points) will need some form of compensation so that people who have put in an amount of time to more characters do not have an advantage over people who put the same amount of time into one character. The current plan is the fairest way to make that compensation IMO.
We get 2% progression for one year playing. This would only be fair, if the system was supposed to run for another 49 years.
^ this, and they only get away with it because of super casuals who are super ignorant.1 -
Nazon_Katts✭✭✭✭✭Precisely because of what ZOS does, some players are dissatisfied."You've probably figured that out by now. Let's hope so. Or we're in real trouble... and out come the intestines. And I skip rope with them!"3
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kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »badmojo0777b14_ESO wrote: »kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »badmojo0777b14_ESO wrote: »kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »About being unfair to people with multiple V14's, it never mattered to the strength of the character in-game how many characters the player had "on the bench". So compensating for all of them would create a power difference where none existed before and that nobody had reason to anticipate (not even after the announcement of the CP system).
The primary reason of the whole discussion here is not being more or less strong. That, has no importance to me. For instance, I developed 5 VR14 toons in different factions (2 AD, 2 EP and 1 DC), for one and sole reason: to play with all my friends. Actually, the first time I went to Cyrodiil, I already had two VR14... Neither I developed 5 VR14 to acquire more or less CP at the transition. The whole point here is to have what you deserve by your own effort and time investment.
I'll give an example of how bad this choice is for someone like me. As I've said, I have 5 VR14, by completing quests (Cadwell's Silver and Gold and Craglorn), dungeons, pledges, destroying multiple times Dark Anchors and World Bosses, etc. Yes, with one of them (an EP toon), I "grinded" in Craglorn; then this toon still is in Greenshade doing Cadwell's Gold quests. This character, my last VR14 (and the less developed of all of my VR14), have at the moment, almost 7000 achievements points and is already Undaunted 8 ...
As for the others toons, well..., I have two with more than 10k achievements, finished DSA Veteran, 250 Dark Anchors (Enemy of Coldharbor and Daedric Lord Slayer titles) and they are Undaunted 9... (with one of them I've never played in Cyrodiil...), and I have at least 3 toons without any Cadwell's Silver and Gold quests to do (yep, I finished everything, including side quests).
When the system change, How will I have to acquire CP with these toons? Since I'll have less opportunity to acquire my CP (don't have quests to turn or do), I'll have to do something that I always hated: grinding.
I totally understand you and agree, however there are hordes of ppl who will lose very little who just don't want you or I to be compensated. It's that simple. It was a [snip] choice by ZoS and they chose the majority over the loyal long term players.
majority? over the "long term loyal players? WRONG. many of my gaming friends and myself have been playing since PTS. most of us have atleast 1 VR 14 and some of us have anywhere form 2 to 4 VR14s. Not many players level 8 friggin VR14s. you ARE NOT the majority and you are no more loyal to this game than myself and many others. if they XP tracked my VR`14 Dragonknight and Vr14 Nightblade I dare say I have accumulated as much if not more experience points/activity than anyone with 8 VR14s. we play our 1 or 2 toons just as hard as any player who doesn't have the skill for end game content, and has nothing better to do than level alt after alt after alt. you've leveled 8 characters 8 times thru the same content. WHOOPITY DOOO while the MAJORITY of us were playing our main 1 or 2 characters thru cyrodiil, veteran dungeons, delves, trials and DSA. we play just as hard if not more so, we just don't spread it out over 8 toons. you haven't played anymore, and you definitely haven't played anything more difficult and you have accomplished anything special, you don't DESERVE anything extra. youre going to get 70 character points for eveyr single toon you've got, just like we will and we all earned it. no one is getting screwed
do you honestly think that someone with 1 or 2 VR14s is going to start making alts to do low level low experience gaining quests and kill for CHARACTER POINTS? why would anyone with VR14s, and access to VR experience points with repeatable daily, dungeons, high level grinding, trials and delves even touch a level 1 quest ? VR14 trash will be worth more character points, than entire low level quest lines.
Re-read your ranting so that you may see the various flaws you instituted just now.
how about you tell me these so called flaws. cuz the only people seeing flaws are those with 8 Vr14s who want extra for doin the same content ove rand over, compared to a Vr14 who plays just as hard excelling at end game content. people with ALTITIS don't deserve anything extra for doing the same content over and over, and those with open slots gain no advantage to gaining character points by having available alt slots
False. People with 2 vr14 still lose a TON of hours advancement. This is one of many flaws in your thinking. You don't even realize you are being robbed of hundreds of hours of advancement by having more than ONE v14 therefore you are in no position to argue either way.But I know something: if two VR14 have the same amount of XP or if they have done the same quests, they should earn the same. Someone should not earn less just because he has two VR14 instead of one.
Please elaborate on this, explain to me like I'm five.javier_cortijopreeb18_ESO wrote: »Player A has one VR 14 and 3 x VR 1, he can spend 70 points in each character. A total of 280 points.
Player B has 4 x VR 14. He has exactly the same points, doesn't matter what VR are his chars as long as they are VR,
I understand there are reasons for this and I don't really mind what system is chosen, but the truth is that Player B is right if he says that champion point-wise the leveling of 3 chars above VR1 is lost, it's just mathematics.
^ This, however what I think you and maybe others are missing is that it starts sooner than that. Even if you only have TWO VR 14 you STILL lose a WHOLE characters worth of progression. It compounds with each toon you have over VR 1 after that. Heck even if you have ONE VR 14 and a couple of VR6s you still lose hours and hours and hours of progression.
I want a guinea pig pet please.
i am completely aware that I will be losing some of the "advancement" I have made past VR14 and whatever recorded XP I will not be awarded. the difference is that i understand compromises have to be made in the transition to a new system. if youre looking for a perfect answer, it doesn't exist. appreciate the fact that ZOS listened to concerns and adjusted their plan for CP awards when the patch hits, to be less of a screwjob than originally planned. its about as fair as its gonna get.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on May 19, 2024 11:41AM5 -
kelly.medleyb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭badmojo0777b14_ESO wrote: »kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »badmojo0777b14_ESO wrote: »kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »badmojo0777b14_ESO wrote: »kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »About being unfair to people with multiple V14's, it never mattered to the strength of the character in-game how many characters the player had "on the bench". So compensating for all of them would create a power difference where none existed before and that nobody had reason to anticipate (not even after the announcement of the CP system).
The primary reason of the whole discussion here is not being more or less strong. That, has no importance to me. For instance, I developed 5 VR14 toons in different factions (2 AD, 2 EP and 1 DC), for one and sole reason: to play with all my friends. Actually, the first time I went to Cyrodiil, I already had two VR14... Neither I developed 5 VR14 to acquire more or less CP at the transition. The whole point here is to have what you deserve by your own effort and time investment.
I'll give an example of how bad this choice is for someone like me. As I've said, I have 5 VR14, by completing quests (Cadwell's Silver and Gold and Craglorn), dungeons, pledges, destroying multiple times Dark Anchors and World Bosses, etc. Yes, with one of them (an EP toon), I "grinded" in Craglorn; then this toon still is in Greenshade doing Cadwell's Gold quests. This character, my last VR14 (and the less developed of all of my VR14), have at the moment, almost 7000 achievements points and is already Undaunted 8 ...
As for the others toons, well..., I have two with more than 10k achievements, finished DSA Veteran, 250 Dark Anchors (Enemy of Coldharbor and Daedric Lord Slayer titles) and they are Undaunted 9... (with one of them I've never played in Cyrodiil...), and I have at least 3 toons without any Cadwell's Silver and Gold quests to do (yep, I finished everything, including side quests).
When the system change, How will I have to acquire CP with these toons? Since I'll have less opportunity to acquire my CP (don't have quests to turn or do), I'll have to do something that I always hated: grinding.
I totally understand you and agree, however there are hordes of ppl who will lose very little who just don't want you or I to be compensated. It's that simple. It was a [snip] choice by ZoS and they chose the majority over the loyal long term players.
majority? over the "long term loyal players? WRONG. many of my gaming friends and myself have been playing since PTS. most of us have atleast 1 VR 14 and some of us have anywhere form 2 to 4 VR14s. Not many players level 8 friggin VR14s. you ARE NOT the majority and you are no more loyal to this game than myself and many others. if they XP tracked my VR`14 Dragonknight and Vr14 Nightblade I dare say I have accumulated as much if not more experience points/activity than anyone with 8 VR14s. we play our 1 or 2 toons just as hard as any player who doesn't have the skill for end game content, and has nothing better to do than level alt after alt after alt. you've leveled 8 characters 8 times thru the same content. WHOOPITY DOOO while the MAJORITY of us were playing our main 1 or 2 characters thru cyrodiil, veteran dungeons, delves, trials and DSA. we play just as hard if not more so, we just don't spread it out over 8 toons. you haven't played anymore, and you definitely haven't played anything more difficult and you have accomplished anything special, you don't DESERVE anything extra. youre going to get 70 character points for eveyr single toon you've got, just like we will and we all earned it. no one is getting screwed
do you honestly think that someone with 1 or 2 VR14s is going to start making alts to do low level low experience gaining quests and kill for CHARACTER POINTS? why would anyone with VR14s, and access to VR experience points with repeatable daily, dungeons, high level grinding, trials and delves even touch a level 1 quest ? VR14 trash will be worth more character points, than entire low level quest lines.
Re-read your ranting so that you may see the various flaws you instituted just now.
how about you tell me these so called flaws. cuz the only people seeing flaws are those with 8 Vr14s who want extra for doin the same content ove rand over, compared to a Vr14 who plays just as hard excelling at end game content. people with ALTITIS don't deserve anything extra for doing the same content over and over, and those with open slots gain no advantage to gaining character points by having available alt slots
False. People with 2 vr14 still lose a TON of hours advancement. This is one of many flaws in your thinking. You don't even realize you are being robbed of hundreds of hours of advancement by having more than ONE v14 therefore you are in no position to argue either way.But I know something: if two VR14 have the same amount of XP or if they have done the same quests, they should earn the same. Someone should not earn less just because he has two VR14 instead of one.
Please elaborate on this, explain to me like I'm five.javier_cortijopreeb18_ESO wrote: »Player A has one VR 14 and 3 x VR 1, he can spend 70 points in each character. A total of 280 points.
Player B has 4 x VR 14. He has exactly the same points, doesn't matter what VR are his chars as long as they are VR,
I understand there are reasons for this and I don't really mind what system is chosen, but the truth is that Player B is right if he says that champion point-wise the leveling of 3 chars above VR1 is lost, it's just mathematics.
^ This, however what I think you and maybe others are missing is that it starts sooner than that. Even if you only have TWO VR 14 you STILL lose a WHOLE characters worth of progression. It compounds with each toon you have over VR 1 after that. Heck even if you have ONE VR 14 and a couple of VR6s you still lose hours and hours and hours of progression.
I want a guinea pig pet please.
i am completely aware that I will be losing some of the "advancement" I have made past VR14 and whatever recorded XP I will not be awarded. the difference is that i understand compromises have to be made in the transition to a new system. if youre looking for a perfect answer, it doesn't exist. appreciate the fact that ZOS listened to concerns and adjusted their plan for CP awards when the patch hits, to be less of a screwjob than originally planned. its about as fair as its gonna get.
The perfect answer is to give us guinea pig pets.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on May 19, 2024 11:42AM2 -
Nazon_Katts✭✭✭✭✭I could settle for one of these:
"You've probably figured that out by now. Let's hope so. Or we're in real trouble... and out come the intestines. And I skip rope with them!"8 -
kelly.medleyb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Nazon_Katts wrote: »I could settle for one of these:
Totally epic! Make it so number 1.1 -
Gandogal✭✭The champion system is about to be new content which is supposed to keep you busy and give you goals in the following weeks after release.
Expactations that hours played before the patch would be considered in the champion system on a 1:1 basis are therefore absurd. Be happy that some of the played time is recognized at all as i see this as a sign of of good will by the developers.
What if they would grant you champion points for all the past hours played? There would not be much new content for you to achieve. They want you to keep playing (and paying). Giving you gifts like that is not howe mmos work.4 -
EQBallzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭Removing progress already achieved for some but not all is also "not how mmos work". Just sayin..4 -
joleda4ub17_ESO✭✭✭So people that exploited their way to vet levels, with multiple characters, right after launch, are being rewarded multiple times? Those of us that didn't take part in the Cyrodiil leveling fiasco, or one of the dozen other leveling exploits during launch...
You know what, forget it.2
This discussion has been closed.