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REFLECTIVE SCALES NEEDS NERF

  • Mukuro
    Mukuro
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    You guys are funny... he cant always have wings up... 9/10 when hes dps spazzing on someone or on yourself he wont put them up... and if hes standing in front of a keep spamming it and your still firing snipes non stop... you deserve that death
    Illusions... or real illusions. Within the illusions hide real illusions... from the real illusions, the illusions are created. Within the truth hides the lie... within the lie hides the truth.
    (EP) V13 Sorc "Mukuro Rokudo"
    (EP) V3 Temp "Unmei No Yari"
    (AD) V5 Nb "L'uomo Nero"
  • Cody
    Cody
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    Reflect is the only counter to the massive amount of how users in group pvp currently. With reflect being changed pvp will just be who gets the snipe off first .. Going to be a full archer game.
    Suntzu1414 wrote: »
    NB's may not dominate in ESO.

    But, We do have all threads on this board...


    Kill Well
    ST

    if i can get the dang talons immunity timer to actually work for me... i may be able to actually fight some DKs:D
    Edited by Cody on December 2, 2014 3:12AM
  • Cody
    Cody
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    ***_Hero wrote: »
    This whole thread is a load of Bull ***. Zos do not list to this garbage. Reflective scales is fine. bolt escape was nerfed because you freakin sorcs could engage in a fight and then zap away. easy stay alive button. sorcs still use it that way. I see no difference other than it cost slightly more but if your running in the first place you really won't need magicka to fight after your 3 miles from your freakin enemy. Like xsorusb14_ESO said, DK's don't run, they fight. They take it all in the face and give it to you harder. I wish reflective scales lasted longer. What you all want to do is face roll DKs by taking one of their main skills away of crippling to make it insane to use. SO before you go convincing Zos to fix things that aren't broken, please feel free to pick one skill from your own class that makes it unique and is actually effective in pvp and suggest they increase its magicka cost, tweak it, nerf it.

    you know what a good counter is to scales that i fine works really well, in both Blackwater blade and the "normal" campaigns?

    DW, sparks, aspect of fear. along with a decetn bleed like blood craze.

    tey it everyone.... ti actually works pretty well:)

    [Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]
    Edited by ZOS_ShannonM on December 3, 2014 5:26PM
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    Cody wrote: »
    if i can get the dang talons immunity timer to actually work for me... i may be able to actually fight some DKs:D

    Talons, like all roots, offers no CC immunity. You can get taloned over and over.

    If however you get hard CC'ed (like Invasion knock-down) and you CC break, you are immune to all hard CC and roots for the next 6".

    In duels a lot of NB use Shadow Image to teleport away when in an sticky situation.
    EU | PC | AD
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    I think that RS needs to be changed so that weapon projectiles aren't reflected. It can be compensated by reducing incoming damage by 40% or so. That way DKs are put on an equal footing with other classes who aren't able to stand in the middle of the field and laugh.

    Saying all that however, after getting frustrated as a sniper with having to let DKs go past due to RS spamming, as a NB I have an entire bar dedicated to taking down DKs and now they're my most killed class.

    For myself, it would be nice to have the change (NOT nerf) to RS, but I find it far more entertaining to kill them while they still think they're invulnerable.

    No dice. Why? Why should magicka attacks be reflected and not weapon attacks, what's the reasonable justification? In fact one of the many complains about Snipe spam is there are so few ways to negate it.

    You can use Eclipse, Ball of Lighting, Defensive Posture and Scales against magicka projectiles, but only the last can be used against arrows. What gives?

    Bow projectiles also hit harder than magicka projectiles at the moment thanks to both higher base damage and:
    a) Specific sets like Hawk's Eye, Archer's Mind etc.
    b) Higher-scaling weapon damage through numerous skills
    c) Flawless Dawnbreaker
    d) Long-Shots passive along with increased range of abilities in Cyro and Reach passive from Alliance War

    If anything, some other skills like Defensive Posture should reflect arrows when the attack is not from stealth (or otherwise you'd never land a stealthed snipe).
    EU | PC | AD
  • JaJaLuka
    JaJaLuka
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    k2blader wrote: »

    I'll tell you more....

    I'll tell you to make better use of Streak, Velocious Curse, Endless Fury and Resto Heavies none of which are reflected. The only reflected attack is Crystal Frags and if you're wearing S&B you can make those go through the scales too.

    Extremely strong though they are, they are killable if you know how to play them, but obviously it's not a quick or easy fight. I'd rather see the damage output of Sorcs increased rather then see DKs nerfed because baddies keep smashing their faces against Scales.

    "The only reflected attack is crystal frags" is a false statement. Yes you listed a few sorc class abilities which are not reflected (one was only just recently fixed to not reflect an explosion) and one weapon ability that is not reflected, but all are fairly laughably weak, with the possible exception of Streak irritation, against a DKs self heal and other counters. While going sword & board is an option, the stamina cost to the sorc is high, especially for just one reflect (assuming it doesn't bug or lag and hit the sorc anyway) and requires much greater resource consideration than what the DK must consider. If there was a way to have a 3rd weapon swap bar I'd definitely run S&B for the sole purpose of using against DKs but imo it's just not effective enough for the group/objective playstyle I prefer.

    It isn't impossible for a sorc to kill a DK 1v1 but the sorc who does that has a much higher skill level than the DK. Personally I think it's far more efficient to wait for more people before engaging and using my "safe" weak ass abilities (the ones you mentioned) while those with hopefully better-hitting melee can do the heavy work. :-P

    How is it a false statement if it's actually true? Crystal Frags IS the only Sorc class attack that is reflected by scales.

    Also regarding the resource considerations you talked about, balanced builds always fair better than glass cannon builds in 1v1 or sustained combat. If you gonna fight a DK 1v1, you better have some stamina regen too, instead of plunging 160+ into magicka regen while your stamina is at 70. s&b on the Sorc works unbelievably well, a lot of top duellists use s&b on theirs.

    Overall, the assessment that DKs are easier to play is true. It's also true that it requires slightly higher skill to win that fight. An average DK can be a tough opponent for a good Sorc. But guess what a) it's doable and b) the game is not balanced on 1v1. I can achieve much much higher kill streaks on my Sorc and dictate battles more through my Negates than I can on my DK.

    I'm all for some Sorc love in terms of extra damage and some fixes to impen so crit surge works better, but otherwise I think the class is fine and so is the DK. And finally if I ever see a solo DK and I'm solo too, I always go for them. 7/10 times they'll be a player less honed in duelling and I'll kill them. The other 3/10 times, I can Bolt Escape away :P The only ones I fear are other Sorcs, because you can't disengage from the fight if it turns bad for you.

    I don't mind if I lose, personally I love fighting other sorcs :smiley: . Less *whip, whip* and more diverse play, have played DK and I'm a little borred by it tbh. I'm always curious on other people's take on their sorc builds, summoners, damage dealers (destroy staff usually), lightning hurlers lol... it's always a little different.
    Edited by JaJaLuka on December 2, 2014 1:33PM
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  • Rune_Relic
    Rune_Relic
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    Scales are fine atm, if you see the cast dont use projectiles if you do you re a noob. On the other hand the lethal arrow health debuff stack needs a nerf and soon cause a lot of people get irritated by that idiocy. And this comes from a sorc/templar.

    At limit of range.
    Shoots lethal arrow...shoots lethal arrow... shoots letha....wings come out.
    Oh crap....Stops shooting.
    1st hits.....reflected.....2nd hits...reflected...3rd hits reflected.
    Dead.

    Yeah. Needs fixing in some way.
    Give it a 10% chance to reflect ranged...upgradeable with passives.
    + 100% ranged damage mitigation
    Edited by Rune_Relic on December 2, 2014 1:42PM
    Anything that can be exploited will be exploited
  • Sanct16
    Sanct16
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    k2blader wrote: »
    Sanct16 wrote: »
    I don't think there is any DK who spams reflect. It lasts for 4 seconds and deals no damage. Why should someone spam it?

    The tone of your post is serious, and I just want to confirm you are actually serious?


    Spamming means (at least for me) hammering one button like people in zergballs spam impulse. Using a defensive skill every 4 seconds as part of a rotation isn't spamming.
    So I dont see why anyone would be spamming RS.
    - EU - Raid Leader of Banana Zerg Squad
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  • Armitas
    Armitas
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    Rune_Relic wrote: »
    Scales are fine atm, if you see the cast dont use projectiles if you do you re a noob. On the other hand the lethal arrow health debuff stack needs a nerf and soon cause a lot of people get irritated by that idiocy. And this comes from a sorc/templar.

    At limit of range.
    Shoots lethal arrow...shoots lethal arrow... shoots letha....wings come out.
    Oh crap....Stops shooting.
    1st hits.....reflected.....2nd hits...reflected...3rd hits reflected.
    Dead.

    If you know they are being reflected why not block them?
    Edited by Armitas on December 2, 2014 2:41PM
    Retired.
    Nord mDK
  • eventide03b14a_ESO
    eventide03b14a_ESO
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    Cody wrote: »
    if i can get the dang talons immunity timer to actually work for me... i may be able to actually fight some DKs:D

    Talons, like all roots, offers no CC immunity. You can get taloned over and over.

    If however you get hard CC'ed (like Invasion knock-down) and you CC break, you are immune to all hard CC and roots for the next 6".

    In duels a lot of NB use Shadow Image to teleport away when in an sticky situation.
    Shadow Image is buggy as hell and while it might work fine in duels it's very unreliable in actual PvP.
    :trollin:
  • Jahosefat
    Jahosefat
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    Panda244 wrote: »
    Xeniph wrote: »
    To be fair, my DK with 139 spell power only heals 450-525 (depending on target) with Flame Lash exploit.

    Just to dispel it being a massive heal, it's decent for sure but not quite as powerful as that. And it does have a 4 second internal CD, and requires the target be exploitable.

    Still good enough to have on the bar though! Carry on :smile:

    As an emp it heals for 800-1.2k :D (On a level 49 with 90 spell damage, and the Imperial racical procs for 300-500)


    Anywhom as pointed out above RS should not be nerfed if you're a projectile based build, it's just entirely contradictary. If you're a sorc, use 1h1s and reflect it back, FOR MORE DAMAGE for one. If you don't want to reflect it back, to bad, that's on you. As far as NB stamina based builds go, all you guys do is sit back and spam one ability and hope to win, one. PROJECTILE. Ability, so no, absolutely not, no one should be nerfed in this scenario, though I do agree with sorc damage buff. And as a v1 DK, in light armor, with a melee build, I cannot tell you how aggravating it is to spam reflect an entire fight because one person. With one lethal arrow, can be the difference between life and death, thanks to that *** healing debuff.

    The "double reflect" tactic is broken, or was during 1.4. If defensive posture was cast before casting crystal frags on a RS dk, the frag disappeared with no damage done. If defensive posture was cast after the frag bounced off the dk, it would not reflect the frag (and sorc takes the damage+CC). Maybe they have fixed this since, but it is still a bad strategy. What every projectile cast includes a cast of defensive posture? LOL so a mag sorc can drain his stam to nothing in a couple of casts of frags?

    RS should have a penalty for spamming. Its use should be more strategic and there should be intermittent openings where it isn't up if a DK wants to conserve resources. If a DK wants to keep it up 100% then there should be a rapid drain on their resources. I think this sort of strategy and the things Yolokin has been saying would go a long way towards balancing PVP.

    And yes, in fights vs sorcs good dks will have RS up very close to 100% of the time. Sometimes they will be a little lazy with it at first when they realize you aren't killing yourself on it, but once they get popped a couple of times when they let it drop, it stays up the rest of the fight.
    Joeshock- AD NA AB Thorn Chill Sorc New Eden Low Sec Roamer

    Fight not with monsters lest ye become one
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    Cody wrote: »
    if i can get the dang talons immunity timer to actually work for me... i may be able to actually fight some DKs:D

    Talons, like all roots, offers no CC immunity. You can get taloned over and over.

    If however you get hard CC'ed (like Invasion knock-down) and you CC break, you are immune to all hard CC and roots for the next 6".

    In duels a lot of NB use Shadow Image to teleport away when in an sticky situation.
    Shadow Image is buggy as hell and while it might work fine in duels it's very unreliable in actual PvP.

    I haven't heard about shadow image being bugged by my guildie NBs, only thing I've heard is that if you're too far away from your shadow you can't TP to it.

    I don't play a NB so I won't profess to know what skills have bugs and what not, so if you're saying it's bugged I'll take your word for it. But regardless, bugs are things to fix not things to balance around.

    In any case, if a DK Talons you it means he's no more than 6m away which means you can Fear him. NBs are usually the class DKs have the hardest time against.
    EU | PC | AD
  • Bouvin
    Bouvin
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    Goldie wrote: »
    Spells & Ranged Attacks... May as well reflect ballista fire while we are at it! Remove melee reflect, or spells. FFS the entire EP population is a DK Vamp with bows in one hand and a Impulse spamming Destro staff in the other.

    Reflecting spells and ranged, some melee, and for 6-8 seconds, is a little much.

    I am surprised the entire population isn't running a DK+Vamp+Bow+Destro...

    Impulse +devouring swarm +reflective scales = rinse and repeat

    Snipe +Reflective Scales +Poison Arrow, poison arrow, poison arrow...

    Oh, and reflecting Ultimates? Do tell...

    Use melee.
  • frozywozy
    frozywozy
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    Rune_Relic wrote: »
    Scales are fine atm, if you see the cast dont use projectiles if you do you re a noob. On the other hand the lethal arrow health debuff stack needs a nerf and soon cause a lot of people get irritated by that idiocy. And this comes from a sorc/templar.

    At limit of range.
    Shoots lethal arrow...shoots lethal arrow... shoots letha....wings come out.
    Oh crap....Stops shooting.
    1st hits.....reflected.....2nd hits...reflected...3rd hits reflected.
    Dead.

    Yeah. Needs fixing in some way.
    Give it a 10% chance to reflect ranged...upgradeable with passives.
    + 100% ranged damage mitigation

    40% of archer projectiles go through RS anyway, you should be happy that it is not working as intended. Often I'll die after spamming RS 3-4times in 10 seconds and I still see projectiles in my death recap. A dragonknight without RS would have to use all shields at its disposal and keep one whole bar only for prebuffing (igneous shield, dampen magic, gdb, volatile armor, healing ward). Otherwise as soon as he would get in melee combat with one single healing debuff he would get wrecked instantly.

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  • Sleep
    Sleep
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    TheBull wrote: »
    roechacca wrote: »
    If Ya see a guy glowing red with wings just don't shoot till it wears off . It's not that big of a deal . You can still sap them with Gandalf wands while its up or melee .
    30 seconds later? 1 minute later?

    No, no. Just don't shoot.
  • Joy_Division
    Joy_Division
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    I'm sorry it is threads like this that separates good players from lazy players.

    If you fire a projectile and it gets reflected back at you, you deserve exactly what you get. That animation is impossible to miss. If your entire build is predicated on long ranged-projectiles, as a one-trick pony, you deserve exactly what you get. And what's this about firing THREE lethal arrows, THEN the DK reflects, and all three get reflected back? Is that even possible or are you just exaggerating so your single button mashing play style will kill anyone in cyrodiil?

    When a DK uses that ability, it should be just a waste of resources. If by chance ONE of your projectiles gets reflected back, it is not a big deal: block it or dodge it. You aren't a one-trick pony, right? Good, now kill the DK.

    A sorcerer does not *have* to rely on ranged projectiles. Those who do willingly narrow their build to do only one thing well and quite frankly deserve to lose to DKs. A sorc could continually attack a DK with non-projectile rotation with Velocious curse, streak, and entropy. The DK has to make an unpleasant choice, continue to waste mana on reflective scales that is not doing her any good whatsoever or risk getting hit with a crystal shard knockdown that opens the door to a combo that ends in an Endless Fury explosion.

    If a sorc chooses to ignore alternative means of attack and insists on relying on ranged projectiles that she knows will be reflected, I don't why Zenimax has to cater to these lazy players.
    Edited by Joy_Division on December 2, 2014 3:47PM
  • Gorthax
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    @Joy_Division‌ i think you have it wrong there friend. You are missing the entire point of this. RS reflects damn near everything lol Sure as a sorc its ok to have to play a resource game (if thats your cup of tea). However there are NO alternative to fighting ONE class that uses ONE skill (two if you count gdb combo). Sorc DoT is laughable. I use it when I need a good giggle from this game.

    Yea we could use Streak to do some weak damage (keep spamming it and bye bye magicka UNLESS you use cookie cutter gear to sustain it), however; VC yea makes them either break it or take 500 some damage. 500 damage is laughable to a DK (here is the gdb thing we talked about). I prefer shattering prison as they HAVE to dodge roll out of it or stand there and take pathetic damage from me(ok yea it back fires sometimes).

    By pathetic I mean damage from channeled lightning damage. Also DoT (tried that route its such a joke) is not worth a [snip]. Sure I could go melee but its not my cup of tea. So dont even go the "use melee" route EVERYONE says. This brings us to my next point.

    I dont want RS nerfed (just a simple "fix" like BE had done to it would be fine) instead I want DoT to NOT suck in this game. Make other elements as strong as fire. Fire trumps lightning and ice right now. Thats why you rarely see anything BUT fire staffs. This doesnt seem off to anyone? This entire game is becoming such a joke. Want to be amazing in PVP then use DK+vamp. Add RS, GDB, LW, and BT to your bar and BOOM! god mode :D

    The above is what you see majority of people playing in pvp. DK+vamp+S&B+staff(mainly bow for second swap). <-- that combo is the go to combo that ROLLS everything.

    This is mainly about RS though. It reflects things it should not. So it is NOT working as intended. Non projectiles get reflected. Example being crushing shock. It is NOT a projectile but gets reflected.

    But please continue saying how sorcs who complain and DONT want to use the cookie cutter sorc build (which btw really isnt that good lets be honest) should be killed by DK's and not complain because they obviously suck right?

    *EDIT* also forgot to toss in there that if you dont block cast and animation cancel then you are playing this game wrong and should unsub /sarcasm (screw people who say that garbage)

    Note: Edited per our rules on Profanity][/i][/b]
    Edited by ZOS_ShannonM on December 3, 2014 5:29PM
  • Junipus
    Junipus
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    I think that RS needs to be changed so that weapon projectiles aren't reflected. It can be compensated by reducing incoming damage by 40% or so. That way DKs are put on an equal footing with other classes who aren't able to stand in the middle of the field and laugh.

    Saying all that however, after getting frustrated as a sniper with having to let DKs go past due to RS spamming, as a NB I have an entire bar dedicated to taking down DKs and now they're my most killed class.

    For myself, it would be nice to have the change (NOT nerf) to RS, but I find it far more entertaining to kill them while they still think they're invulnerable.

    No dice. Why? Why should magicka attacks be reflected and not weapon attacks, what's the reasonable justification? In fact one of the many complains about Snipe spam is there are so few ways to negate it.

    You can use Eclipse, Ball of Lighting, Defensive Posture and Scales against magicka projectiles, but only the last can be used against arrows. What gives?

    Bow projectiles also hit harder than magicka projectiles at the moment thanks to both higher base damage and:
    a) Specific sets like Hawk's Eye, Archer's Mind etc.
    b) Higher-scaling weapon damage through numerous skills
    c) Flawless Dawnbreaker
    d) Long-Shots passive along with increased range of abilities in Cyro and Reach passive from Alliance War

    If anything, some other skills like Defensive Posture should reflect arrows when the attack is not from stealth (or otherwise you'd never land a stealthed snipe).

    Full dice. Using block mitigates a large percentage of damage, especially using S&B. I've had my snipes hit for 2-300 instead of 1300-1400 with players blocking with S&B.

    By changing weapon projectiles so they aren't reflected it makes heavy armour a viable strategy now instead of an afterthought for the PvPers and a way of identifying the PvEers. Having a blocking char kitted in 5 pieces of heavy means that arrows and other weapon projectiles cause barely a scratch, maybe only 5-10% of the actual damage.

    Similarly, wearing a dress would ensure that spell damage is mitigated more than in medium or heavy armour.

    Specifically regarding RS, this change would still allow players to stand there tanking and reflecting most abilities and attacks but having to sacrifice magicka regen and spell resistance (which wouldn't be an issue with RS). The only change is that they couldn't stand there tanking forever while they went to make a cup of tea.
    The Legendary Nothing
  • Sanct16
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    Ok please change Crushing Shock animation to show that it is a projectile.

    This thread should be closed imo. There are no new arguments coming up.
    - EU - Raid Leader of Banana Zerg Squad
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  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    Nope, still no dice from me.
    Using block mitigates a large percentage of damage, especially using S&B. I've had my snipes hit for 2-300 instead of 1300-1400 with players blocking with S&B.

    Same level of mitigation in % applies to spell projectiles too, tell me something new.
    By changing weapon projectiles so they aren't reflected it makes heavy armour a viable strategy now instead of an afterthought for the PvPers and a way of identifying the PvEers. Having a blocking char kitted in 5 pieces of heavy means that arrows and other weapon projectiles cause barely a scratch, maybe only 5-10% of the actual damage.

    Which would still be a higher level of threat than what is posed by ranged magicka builds when you can put Defensive Posture or Scales on. You're missing the core of my argument. Magicka projectiles can be returned back to the sender multiple ways, they also do less damage and they get mitigated by two different types of armour (Heavy & Light) instead of one.

    Heavy armour needs more resource sustain. There's not point sitting there holding block if casting any stamina or magicka abilities costs you a bomb. That's the problem. You're trying to get skills nerfed so that a sub-par type of armour gets used, instead of wanting that armour buffed.
    Specifically regarding RS, this change would still allow players to stand there tanking and reflecting most abilities and attacks but having to sacrifice magicka regen and spell resistance (which wouldn't be an issue with RS). The only change is that they couldn't stand there tanking forever while they went to make a cup of tea.

    That's not what they'll have to sacrifice. They'll have to sacrifice more stamina and magicka. Magicka for the heals as some of your damage would get through and stamina because they'll have to block your arrows, which costs stamina.

    Overall, I don't think you're getting the mood right now. The mood is against bows which can do more burst damage and DPS than all other ranged weapons and abilities, from farther and with fewer ways of mitigation.

    If nerfs come to Reflective Scales, which is possible, they will certainly not be in a way that reinforce the current snipe-spamming meta that has emerged since last patch. Much as you'd like it to ;)
    EU | PC | AD
  • Junipus
    Junipus
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    Nope, still no dice from me.
    Using block mitigates a large percentage of damage, especially using S&B. I've had my snipes hit for 2-300 instead of 1300-1400 with players blocking with S&B.

    Same level of mitigation in % applies to spell projectiles too, tell me something new.
    By changing weapon projectiles so they aren't reflected it makes heavy armour a viable strategy now instead of an afterthought for the PvPers and a way of identifying the PvEers. Having a blocking char kitted in 5 pieces of heavy means that arrows and other weapon projectiles cause barely a scratch, maybe only 5-10% of the actual damage.

    Which would still be a higher level of threat than what is posed by ranged magicka builds when you can put Defensive Posture or Scales on. You're missing the core of my argument. Magicka projectiles can be returned back to the sender multiple ways, they also do less damage and they get mitigated by two different types of armour (Heavy & Light) instead of one.

    Heavy armour needs more resource sustain. There's not point sitting there holding block if casting any stamina or magicka abilities costs you a bomb. That's the problem. You're trying to get skills nerfed so that a sub-par type of armour gets used, instead of wanting that armour buffed.
    Specifically regarding RS, this change would still allow players to stand there tanking and reflecting most abilities and attacks but having to sacrifice magicka regen and spell resistance (which wouldn't be an issue with RS). The only change is that they couldn't stand there tanking forever while they went to make a cup of tea.

    That's not what they'll have to sacrifice. They'll have to sacrifice more stamina and magicka. Magicka for the heals as some of your damage would get through and stamina because they'll have to block your arrows, which costs stamina.

    Overall, I don't think you're getting the mood right now. The mood is against bows which can do more burst damage and DPS than all other ranged weapons and abilities, from farther and with fewer ways of mitigation.

    If nerfs come to Reflective Scales, which is possible, they will certainly not be in a way that reinforce the current snipe-spamming meta that has emerged since last patch. Much as you'd like it to ;)

    I agree that the mood is against bows, but this will last only as long as FCs are out really. Then when the majority of bow users go back to destro/resto/S&B because of there being not as big a death penalty there'll be less snipe spamming. Admittedly there'll be more than there were before they took out FCs.

    If they change (buff if you will) heavy armour so it's more viable within PvP then it'll help create a more varied PvP experience with some players taking on specific roles instead of the 'all singing, all dancing' roles players can do now (not just DKs in this regard).

    I get your argument, however as my own view of changing RS to not reflect weapon attacks means that anyone using bows, resto staff or destro staff can benefit it only really puts those relying on S&B and 2h at a disadvantage offensively and DKs at a disadvantage defensively whilst still being able to tank there. How it's done is one of many possibilities of which I've only covered one briefly above.

    On an aside, instead of complaining about DKs and asking for a nerf (despite the previous, which is only an opinion/viewpoint) I decided to find a way around it. If they took up my viewpoint it'd make life much easier, but if not and until then I can rely on my trusty off-bar to remedy the situation :)
    The Legendary Nothing
  • MiyaTheUnbroken
    MiyaTheUnbroken
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    And what's this about firing THREE lethal arrows, THEN the DK reflects, and all three get reflected back? Is that even possible or are you just exaggerating so your single button mashing play style will kill anyone in cyrodiil?

    That is totally possible. It happens to me multiple times a day on Thorn, but I've always assumed it's a lag/latency issue rather than the skill being OP.
    Edited by MiyaTheUnbroken on December 2, 2014 6:07PM
  • Samadhi
    Samadhi
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    Rune_Relic wrote: »
    Scales are fine atm, if you see the cast dont use projectiles if you do you re a noob. On the other hand the lethal arrow health debuff stack needs a nerf and soon cause a lot of people get irritated by that idiocy. And this comes from a sorc/templar.

    At limit of range.
    Shoots lethal arrow...shoots lethal arrow... shoots letha....wings come out.
    Oh crap....Stops shooting.
    1st hits.....reflected.....2nd hits...reflected...3rd hits reflected.
    Dead.

    Yeah. Needs fixing in some way.
    Give it a 10% chance to reflect ranged...upgradeable with passives.
    + 100% ranged damage mitigation

    Can lethal arrow not be blocked/roll dodged when it is reflected?

    It would be interesting if the counter for lethal arrow itself did not work when reflected.
    "If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
    Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
  • Rune_Relic
    Rune_Relic
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    Armitas wrote: »
    Rune_Relic wrote: »
    Scales are fine atm, if you see the cast dont use projectiles if you do you re a noob. On the other hand the lethal arrow health debuff stack needs a nerf and soon cause a lot of people get irritated by that idiocy. And this comes from a sorc/templar.

    At limit of range.
    Shoots lethal arrow...shoots lethal arrow... shoots letha....wings come out.
    Oh crap....Stops shooting.
    1st hits.....reflected.....2nd hits...reflected...3rd hits reflected.
    Dead.

    If you know they are being reflected why not block them?

    Because you dont know when they are coming and blocking eats stamina in a 30+ vs 30+ PVP stamina build where you have effects going off everywhere with enemy surrounding you.

    Every block/dodge/sneak eats my damage until helpless prey.

    To the other hut saying you cant be hit by 3 lethal arrows...yes you can from 1st hand experience.

    One trick pony no..1h+shield is also useless to me with talon/bats/standard spam. Bow is useless too with RS.
    I dont have a ton of magicka to shield stack or have shields to stack anyway.
    Edited by Rune_Relic on December 2, 2014 8:54PM
    Anything that can be exploited will be exploited
  • Gorthax
    Gorthax
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rune_Relic wrote: »
    Armitas wrote: »
    Rune_Relic wrote: »
    Scales are fine atm, if you see the cast dont use projectiles if you do you re a noob. On the other hand the lethal arrow health debuff stack needs a nerf and soon cause a lot of people get irritated by that idiocy. And this comes from a sorc/templar.

    At limit of range.
    Shoots lethal arrow...shoots lethal arrow... shoots letha....wings come out.
    Oh crap....Stops shooting.
    1st hits.....reflected.....2nd hits...reflected...3rd hits reflected.
    Dead.

    If you know they are being reflected why not block them?

    Because you dont know when they are coming and blocking eats stamina in a 30+ vs 30+ PVP stamina build where you have effects going off everywhere with enemy surrounding you.

    thats like people saying Bows are not OP, just listen for the arrows flying at you and dodge roll that way they dont get the sneak attack on you (seriously people have told me this >_> )!
  • Armitas
    Armitas
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    Rune_Relic wrote: »
    Armitas wrote: »
    Rune_Relic wrote: »
    Scales are fine atm, if you see the cast dont use projectiles if you do you re a noob. On the other hand the lethal arrow health debuff stack needs a nerf and soon cause a lot of people get irritated by that idiocy. And this comes from a sorc/templar.

    At limit of range.
    Shoots lethal arrow...shoots lethal arrow... shoots letha....wings come out.
    Oh crap....Stops shooting.
    1st hits.....reflected.....2nd hits...reflected...3rd hits reflected.
    Dead.

    If you know they are being reflected why not block them?

    Because you dont know when they are coming and blocking eats stamina in a 30+ vs 30+ PVP stamina build where you have effects going off everywhere with enemy surrounding you.

    Every block/dodge/sneak eats my damage until helpless prey.

    To the other hut saying you cant be hit by 3 lethal arrows...yes you can from 1st hand experience.

    Reflect comes with like10m long flapping dragon wings. If you are shooting a single target with a single target skill you should be able to see10meter long dragon wings coming out of that same target. Other than dragon leap it has to be the most explicit, noticeable skill in the game. If we are required to listen for whistles from bow users perhaps the bow user can be required to look for 10m long dragon wings.
    Edited by Armitas on December 2, 2014 9:10PM
    Retired.
    Nord mDK
  • Sanct16
    Sanct16
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    ✭✭
    The point of this thread is that a bowuser should be able to kill everyone just spamming snipe.
    - EU - Raid Leader of Banana Zerg Squad
    AD | AR 50 | Sanct Fir'eheal | ex Mana DK @31.10.2015
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    EP | AR 36 | S'na'ct | Mana NB {NA}
    AD | AR 29 | Captain Full Fist| Stam DK
    AD | AR 29 | Sanct The Dark Phoenix| Stam Sorc
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    DC | AR 13 | ad worst faction eu | Stam Sorc
    DC | AR 13 | Lagendary Sanct | Mana NB

    >320.000.000 AP
  • Gorthax
    Gorthax
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sanct16 wrote: »
    The point of this thread is that a bowuser should be able to kill everyone just spamming snipe.

    if thats what you get out of this thread than you need to go re-read everything. Everyone is NOT saying that :D
  • themizario
    themizario
    ✭✭✭
    I see that reflective scales is getting nerfed. I see that fear is getting nerfed. With comments that "not working as intended" Saw a post about blazing spear. Bring out the nerf guns cause that's apparently what everyone wants to play.
  • Rune_Relic
    Rune_Relic
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Armitas wrote: »
    Rune_Relic wrote: »
    Armitas wrote: »
    Rune_Relic wrote: »
    Scales are fine atm, if you see the cast dont use projectiles if you do you re a noob. On the other hand the lethal arrow health debuff stack needs a nerf and soon cause a lot of people get irritated by that idiocy. And this comes from a sorc/templar.

    At limit of range.
    Shoots lethal arrow...shoots lethal arrow... shoots letha....wings come out.
    Oh crap....Stops shooting.
    1st hits.....reflected.....2nd hits...reflected...3rd hits reflected.
    Dead.

    If you know they are being reflected why not block them?

    Because you dont know when they are coming and blocking eats stamina in a 30+ vs 30+ PVP stamina build where you have effects going off everywhere with enemy surrounding you.

    Every block/dodge/sneak eats my damage until helpless prey.

    To the other hut saying you cant be hit by 3 lethal arrows...yes you can from 1st hand experience.

    Reflect comes with like10m long flapping dragon wings. If you are shooting a single target with a single target skill you should be able to see10meter long dragon wings coming out of that same target. Other than dragon leap it has to be the most explicit, noticeable skill in the game. If we are required to listen for whistles from bow users perhaps the bow user can be required to look for 10m long dragon wings.

    You missed the part where I fired 3 shots the wing comes out and then they hit the DK right ? Its called travel time and snipe is faster now. Throw in random lag and its hit and pray.

    If I knew they had wings...I would never have fired off 3 shots in the 1st place ;)
    Iwould have spread the reflect over several archers.
    Edited by Rune_Relic on December 2, 2014 10:18PM
    Anything that can be exploited will be exploited
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