The future of the User interface which is currently awfull.

FallenPrince

well all i can tell playing it on pc is hard to use potions but that wont stop me xD

Attorneyatlawl

zhevon wrote: »

Quick observation - in preparation for today's patch; I disabled all of my addons and played it for a very short time. It sucked; it really sucked.

I did the same, it was not pleasant.

Attorneyatlawl

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

If they keep cutting down on the API then there probably won't be many people left wanting to stick around making addons...

And others such as myself who would have made addons and are capable of doing so never began due to the issues related to the api, poor documentation, and constant features being removed resulting in an unstable environment. Not to mention not wanting to implement basic UI functionality that ZOS should have been and to this day needs to for themselves.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Draxuul wrote: »

As long as any of the changes made are optional , i don't have an issue with it .

Biggest issue with options is IF it affects gameplay then its not really an option any more you choose either or your doing it wrong.

Plain and simple.

So lets take the quick potion set up.

Currently I like it as I simply DONT have to rely on it. Having all your quick slot items become press able keys just makes that much more keys I have to press when I simply cant while keeping my hand on the WASD keys.

So when the quick slots gets changed now im at a disadvantage.

Lets now add hotbar abilities to be slotted endlessly.

I can really only press 1-5 so again now im at a disadvantage.

Being constantly at a disadvantage I can never truly compete so at that point its really not worth playing any more.

A LOT of design decisions people blame on console are really due to the limitations of the left hand sitting on the WASD keys attempting to play an MMO.

It makes more sense to have your entire player base playing on equal footing instead of having SO many people at a constant disadvantage because some can while others cant.


________________________________________________________________________


As for the immersion stuff like mini maps.........Well they left that to addons because....well you weren't going to us the ingame one anyways so why develop one when people will use the addon version anyways.

What? Why not just make it so that you play the game with one hand because there are one handed people out there? How about get rid of the voice acting and audio combat cues since there are deaf people. And of course no video because you know there are blind people. Hell you know what? How about just have the whole game be neither audio or video or mouse or keyboard to accommodate everyone. Just sit there in front of a blank screen.

It is not the job of people who pay for this game to do the work of people getting paid to make the game. Especially since they decide to change the API on a whim and break the addons every other patch. For instance I have to turn the mini map off before I use the transitus shrine in Cyrodiil. That's because you cannot zoom out of your local area while using the mini map addon. Why? I have no frickin idea because I am not a programmer. I just know that I have to go and disable the addon anytime I want to use a transitus shrine from one of the Morrowind gates. That's tedious and stupid but it's what you get when you are too lazy to make a basic feature that just about every MMO has. I'm glad I was able to figure out which addon was giving me the problem.

eventide03b14a_ESO

k9mouse wrote: »

dragonhawk wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiMTVeWgrRU

~looks at the video and thank the Eight that ESO is not like that~

Way Way too much "stuff" on the screen. We are playing the game, not UI last time I checked.

Why does it have to go that far?? We just talking about the option to have a reliable mini map and options for some other stuff. We should have it all and let US decide what we want on the screen. They have essentially dictated that we play with no UI but given us the option to download player made ones. I'm sorry that just screams of laziness.

diwie

After the last update i ve recognised that without some fundamental UI upgrades I would not like playing eso. Just to mention my favourites:
- MiniMap (using ZrMiniMap - updated)
- FTC
- Advanced Filters
- simple chat bubbles for better mentioning the /say chat.

Smiteye

zhevon wrote: »

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

If they keep cutting down on the API then there probably won't be many people left wanting to stick around making addons...

Did they reduce the API this time?

no, but it has been done numerous times so far arbitrarily at that

TehMagnus

Mmm at leas Srendarr's addon is still working...

pirate3

I love the UI as it is and I don't use any add-ons. Happy for it not to change.

Attorneyatlawl

pirate3 wrote: »

I love the UI as it is and I don't use any add-ons. Happy for it not to change.

That's great. A lot of us don't like it as it is though and it wouldn't affect you for options to be put in so we can be happy with it too .

TehMagnus

Guess we can forget ZOS commenting on this subject...

Francescolg

Wanted for healers: a movable/adjustable group window.....
(so many games had it..)

GwaynLoki

Reliable buff/debuff tracking on me, allies and enemies is what I really want, especially for healing. I don't need addons/ui to play the game for me but I want some reliable info so I can make decisions.

Attorneyatlawl

GwaynLoki wrote: »

Reliable buff/debuff tracking on me, allies and enemies is what I really want, especially for healing. I don't need addons/ui to play the game for me but I want some reliable info so I can make decisions.

Yep, API doesn't allow for it even with addons right now which forces them to "guess" your buffs off of simply pressing your hotkey. Completely unreliable and inaccurate most of the time.

I posted this in another thread:

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

I'm staying subscribed, but I'll admit the myriad quality of life issues are very much starting to chaff such as lack of third-person camera options/settings, the extremely lacking user interface (some of that is taken up by addons but some can't be done even with them such as actual buff/debuff tracking, a real combat log telling you what hit your own character without having to die, and nameplate options, let alone a proper minimap without lots of glitches and pin and/or performance issues (all due respect to the authors, as it isn't your fault but the API's)).

I can stomach waiting a little for the imperial city, and general gameplay fixes/balance changes. I've done that dance before with MMORPG's for 15+ years as far back as EverQuest 1 at its launch. I can even stomach performance issues and glitches, while they're worked on. Heck, I can even bear leveling annoyances or quest bugs that require re-trying a quest, since I can work around those.

What I cannot stomach is lacking essential and industry-standard functionality as commonplace as brakes in a car, and being told it's being left out "for my own good" as even being an optional component, with no confirmation of work underway to fix them. It's much easier to wait for something when you know it's coming, rather than not even knowing it ever is intended to actually be.

As examples...
-Why can't I search my inventory?
-Optionally see people's names and guilds overhead? (a feature removed in beta)
-Have a minimap on my screen (not yours, just mine)? (another one stripped from the game for no apparent reason)
-Why can I not be allowed to see what debuffs have been cast on my OWN character?
-What is wrong with having multiple quests in my tracker instead of having to tediously cycle through repeatedly with a hotkey, and often overshoot and have to repeat the endeavor? (another removed beta feature)
-Or what abilities have hit ME other than if I die and use a lumped-together "death recap" that only lists the last 5 hits?
-Why can I not just use a text search in guild stores?
-Or reply to a mail?
-Or target a friendly in a similar fashion to a tab target now?
-Or have a chat tab with a combat log on my chatbox? (yep, this used to be in too! and a million times better than the hokey "death recap")
-Why was the ability to prioritize heals on yourself even removed (this gets you killed when your Breath of Life decides to hit some random person instead of yourself at low health when you yourself are casting the spell, for example) (guess what? another beta feature removed)
-Filter by category in my bags?
-See an icon view or a more compact list view optionally for my bags?
-Amongst other problems...

I don't mind normal MMO problems. I do mind having a half-finished set of basic gameplay functions.

'Nuff said.

magnusnet wrote: »

Guess we can forget ZOS commenting on this subject...

Unfortunately, the UI has always been a topic of disdain by ZOS, at least that's the impression I have since playing as early as July of last year and seeing both changes and posts over time. It is very unfortunate as it is severely impacting the game's health and future potential to have these problems.

TehMagnus

Last I heard devs are split about giving more stuff or not to the UI. Sadly the wrong side is winning it seems...

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO

Unfortunately, the UI has always been a topic of disdain by ZOS

I think it's more like a lack of skill in the programmers doing the UI. The fundamental blunders they have made are mostly beginner's mistakes - things for which I would fail students in a UI design class and ask them to go back and do it right.

Wykkyd

magnusnet wrote: »

Last I heard devs are split about giving more stuff or not to the UI. Sadly the wrong side is winning it seems...

The "wrong side" is pioneered by Paul Sage. Until he, himself, decides he would like a minimap you won't get one baked into the UI.

RenhardtESO

Can anyone explain to me what is wrong with the UI? I think it's fine. It's minimal and I can pay attention to more of the amazing art work that has gone into the game.

TehMagnus

Wykkyd wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

Last I heard devs are split about giving more stuff or not to the UI. Sadly the wrong side is winning it seems...

The "wrong side" is pioneered by Paul Sage. Until he, himself, decides he would like a minimap you won't get one baked into the UI.

Then we are doomed, DOOOMED!

Wykkyd

Seanathen wrote: »

Can anyone explain to me what is wrong with the UI? I think it's fine. It's minimal and I can pay attention to more of the amazing art work that has gone into the game.

Forced ignorance is not a feature. I too prefer a clean user interface. Half of my addons focus on removing screen elements and giving you quicker access to information in order to keep you out of game windows as often. But a clean interface should be a choice, not by brute force. The game should give you information so that you can make informed decisions, and then should let users decide how much of that information they need/want to see to suit their individual needs.

Just because some players are fine not knowing doesn't mean that should be forced upon the masses.

In WoW I was top DPS in my raid guild in many guilds, over many classes, and over many expansions. I always started with add-ons and UI elements enabled that helped me gather information, make informed decisions about my DPS and rotations and then slowly, over time as they became habit and routine and I advanced my play with that class/build, I reduced my UI to literally nothing (I didn't even show my action bars during combat)... and maintained my top DPS position. When I changed specs/classes and needed to enhance and learn again, I re-exposed UI elements and add-ons that helped me make my decisions until I didn't want/need them anymore.

And that was my choice. Not yours. Not Paul Sage's. Not Garkin's. My choice.

Let's be blunt, here. This game would be flat out amazing and would easily quadruple its playerbase if the UI nazis would simply get out of the way and stop forcing their lack-of-information upon the masses.

Wykkyd

<double post>

RenhardtESO

But what other UI does WoW have built in to the game other than a minimap that gives you so much more info than ESO? You just said yourself that you used Addons in WoW. ESO has Addons also. I mean I know I am stating the obvious here but this isn't WoW. It's an Elder Scrolls game.

Wykkyd

Seanathen wrote: »

But what other UI does WoW have built in to the game other than a minimap that gives you so much more info than ESO? You just said yourself that you used Addons in WoW. ESO has Addons also. I mean I know I am stating the obvious here but this isn't WoW. It's an Elder Scrolls game.

And this is the problem. You clearly don't understand the scope of what is and isn't possible with add-ons in ESO, or you wouldn't be making this retort.

"It's an Elder Scrolls game" is a lowsy counter to anything. It's an RPG. It's online. It's massively multiplayer. And even aside from all of that, it uses spells, buffs, debuffs, attacks and counters. Guess what: Just like WoW, Rift, Warhammer Online, LOTR Online, SWOTOR, EverQuest, EverQuest 2, Fina... do I have to continue?

There are no API commands that tell you what buffs your character has on you. Did you already put Absorb Magic up? I don't know. I can see that you caused the action bar's animation to press down, and I can guess at duration based on parsing out the skill. But that doesn't actually mean it's on you.

There are no API commands that tell you whether or not your debuff is actually on your target. Did the boss resist Crippling Grasp? I don't know. I saw you trigger the action button it's bound to, but I don't know if you cast it successfully, or if it stuck to your target, or if it got overwritten or resisted. Should you cast it again? Guess.

^^ and that's just the tip of the iceberg. Don't sit here and say, "oh, well, both games have add-ons" as if that actually means anything. It doesn't. One game lets you know things, the other goes out of its way to hide that from you.

Forced ignorance.

RenhardtESO

Ha nope guess I don't understand. Thanks for explaining. Good luck with all of that.

TehMagnus

Seanathen wrote: »

But what other UI does WoW have built in to the game other than a minimap that gives you so much more info than ESO? You just said yourself that you used Addons in WoW. ESO has Addons also. I mean I know I am stating the obvious here but this isn't WoW. It's an Elder Scrolls game.

Yeah, you can see that by the fact WoW is the most played MMORPG of all times and ESO has bled subscribers and doesn't even dare publish statistics about it's player base.

As I said in an other post, stop with the WoW post traumatic stress. Maybe the community is horrible maybe they did things wrong I know I couldn't stand the game even though I was a Warcraft fan but facts are facts, it is the most popular MMO even to date so they can't have done everything wrong. ESO is not WOW, it has different lore/graphics/mechanics/economy/questing/raiding, modifying the UI to make it friendlier or even the API to give more data wouldn't hurt the game at all.

It might even bring back many of the guilds that just quit the game when they saw PVP didn't live up to their standards, the sucky UI and the lack of PVE end game content.

Work has been done on PVE, work is being done on PVP, the only thing missing is the UI and this game will be more than amazing.

Shaun98ca2

magnusnet wrote: »

Seanathen wrote: »

But what other UI does WoW have built in to the game other than a minimap that gives you so much more info than ESO? You just said yourself that you used Addons in WoW. ESO has Addons also. I mean I know I am stating the obvious here but this isn't WoW. It's an Elder Scrolls game.

Yeah, you can see that by the fact WoW is the most played MMORPG of all times and ESO has bled subscribers and doesn't even dare publish statistics about it's player base.

As I said in an other post, stop with the WoW post traumatic stress. Maybe the community is horrible maybe they did things wrong I know I couldn't stand the game even though I was a Warcraft fan but facts are facts, it is the most popular MMO even to date so they can't have done everything wrong. ESO is not WOW, it has different lore/graphics/mechanics/economy/questing/raiding, modifying the UI to make it friendlier or even the API to give more data wouldn't hurt the game at all.

It might even bring back many of the guilds that just quit the game when they saw PVP didn't live up to their standards, the sucky UI and the lack of PVE end game content.

Work has been done on PVE, work is being done on PVP, the only thing missing is the UI and this game will be more than amazing.

WOW isn't "popular" due to it being a good MMO. Its popular due to the fact it hit the sweet spot in the MMO world. At the time of its release its competition simply wasn't there.

The competition that it did have it beat out the gate simply due to name. Now WOW is simply surviving on that fact alone when you go to WOW you simply know it has a huge player base and a good chance you have a friend already playing it.

WOW isn't a good game its a popular game, a now everyday household name.

Its not facial tissue any more its Kleenex
Its not MMO any more its WOW. Most people don't even know what an MMORPG is but you sat WOW and now they instantly know what your talking about. THIS IS HOW WOW SURVIVES not because its a good game.

RenhardtESO

On top of that, people are comparing the success of a 5 month old game to that of a game that has had 10 years to perfect itself.

Smiteye

Wykkyd wrote: »

Seanathen wrote: »

Can anyone explain to me what is wrong with the UI? I think it's fine. It's minimal and I can pay attention to more of the amazing art work that has gone into the game.

Forced ignorance is not a feature. I too prefer a clean user interface. Half of my addons focus on removing screen elements and giving you quicker access to information in order to keep you out of game windows as often. But a clean interface should be a choice, not by brute force. The game should give you information so that you can make informed decisions, and then should let users decide how much of that information they need/want to see to suit their individual needs.

Just because some players are fine not knowing doesn't mean that should be forced upon the masses.


Let's be blunt, here. This game would be flat out amazing and would easily quadruple its playerbase if the UI nazis would simply get out of the way and stop forcing their lack-of-information upon the masses.

If only mr. Sage would reconsider his standpoint :grimacing: . He is screwing over his own company with this irresponsible vendetta against the UI, in all honesty. Ignorance indeed is not a feature if you force it on someone... let people choose whether they enable or disable basic functions like these and let them add things that aren't basic through addons like a damage analysis tool with graphs, not simple things like being able to resize your chat box to a reasonable size or filter your inventory. It's absurd that they have left it to YOU, a random player who decided to fix their stuff via addons as best you could, to do their work for them. You do an amazing job but it is NOT your responsibility and they will fall flat on their face if the main, amazing authors like yourself stop doing their job for them. I would honestly just outright quit if I couldnt use addons like yours and Garkin's because the base UI is simply not serviceable to myself or a vast number of people.

Take ownership of this ZOS. Fix your game's UI. EVERY forum I talk on that has a gaming subsection, I have seen numerous mentions of how bad the interface is in their ESO thread(s). *IT IS COSTING YOU MONEY and LOTS of it*. It is costing you players, and it is costing you the trust of those who still remain.

Attorneyatlawl

Smiteye wrote: »

Wykkyd wrote: »

Seanathen wrote: »

Can anyone explain to me what is wrong with the UI? I think it's fine. It's minimal and I can pay attention to more of the amazing art work that has gone into the game.

Forced ignorance is not a feature. I too prefer a clean user interface. Half of my addons focus on removing screen elements and giving you quicker access to information in order to keep you out of game windows as often. But a clean interface should be a choice, not by brute force. The game should give you information so that you can make informed decisions, and then should let users decide how much of that information they need/want to see to suit their individual needs.

Just because some players are fine not knowing doesn't mean that should be forced upon the masses.


Let's be blunt, here. This game would be flat out amazing and would easily quadruple its playerbase if the UI nazis would simply get out of the way and stop forcing their lack-of-information upon the masses.

If only mr. Sage would reconsider his standpoint :grimacing: . He is screwing over his own company with this irresponsible vendetta against the UI, in all honesty. Ignorance indeed is not a feature if you force it on someone... let people choose whether they enable or disable basic functions like these and let them add things that aren't basic through addons like a damage analysis tool with graphs, not simple things like being able to resize your chat box to a reasonable size or filter your inventory. It's absurd that they have left it to YOU, a random player who decided to fix their stuff via addons as best you could, to do their work for them. You do an amazing job but it is NOT your responsibility and they will fall flat on their face if the main, amazing authors like yourself stop doing their job for them. I would honestly just outright quit if I couldnt use addons like yours and Garkin's because the base UI is simply not serviceable to myself or a vast number of people.

Take ownership of this ZOS. Fix your game's UI. EVERY forum I talk on that has a gaming subsection, I have seen numerous mentions of how bad the interface is in their ESO thread(s). *IT IS COSTING YOU MONEY and LOTS of it*. It is costing you players, and it is costing you the trust of those who still remain.

Not the way I'd have worded it but I can't disagree with your argument whatsoever here, @Smiteye. Not one bit.

Jaxsun

Seanathen wrote: »

Can anyone explain to me what is wrong with the UI? I think it's fine. It's minimal and I can pay attention to more of the amazing art work that has gone into the game.

The problem is that we can't move it to where we would like. Specifically, the group windows. Terrible location for healing.