Upcoming Werewolf Changes

ZakuBeta

I just got my werewolf character started. Was level 9 when I got it, now I am 10 or 11. I am having fun with it, but the timer is way to fast. I've even had it end immediately after feeding on something. The feeding extending the timer for the werewolf by 3 seconds seems to be extending it for the time it took to feed. Can't wait for the other bits to unlock to see if they help any.

Oddly, the Skyrim werewolf only lasted around 2 minutes without feeding, I think the feeding extended it too much, but the transformation felt like it was longer. That seemed to be a better starting point, what is the transformation time here, 30 seconds?

ZakuBeta

There isn't enough time to move the Werewolf Skills in the Xbox 1 skill set up. There needs to be a way to move the skills around for the Werewolf when not transformed.

cjthibs

While I think the changes made late last year to WW were amazing...we still need one more bit.
Werewolf -really- needs to be a toggle similar to Sorceror's Overload.

You activate it, and attacks cost time. The more Ultimate you had prior to activate the more time you get. Deactivate early, keep your ultimate.
As it stands right now this Ultimate is utterly useless in Cyrodiil because you cannot stop to Devour, it is a death sentence. If I could move to a target without losing my Ultimate entirely, this would fix this.

Sha_dow

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Are we getting any more discussions withe teh DEVS?

This skills line/class is still far from what it should be for those of us choosing to be Lycans

The topic/thread shows " Developer Discussion" yet we have had ZERO discussions with the Devs either personally or via yourself in the entire time this thread has been open

can we please have a new update ? or some new information of upcoming changes please?

Equilibriator

If we could toggle werewolf, that would be sweet as.

Belthor_Moonblood

ZakuBeta wrote: »

There isn't enough time to move the Werewolf Skills in the Xbox 1 skill set up. There needs to be a way to move the skills around for the Werewolf when not transformed.

Honestly this is the only problem with the werewolf set up. Other than that I am not having trouble staying in werewolf form.

Raynefr

i definitely agree. Instead of the Werewolf transformation costing ultimate, it should Drain it, that way people can put in builds that maximize ultimate management, but also so accidental transformations dont waste a full Ult bar, and their can be strategy such as transforming, killing stuff, reverting and dropping another ult.

also dear god, ive been asking for this since Skyrim, but better human passives. something like wolves dont attack unless provoked (yellow aura) or stamina boost at night, as long as werewolf transformation is slotted. it doesnt have to be a big deal. just something that says, "hey..your are a werewolf no matter what form you take." i dont think it should be anything close to vampire passives, but tiny things like non aggressive wolves, or night time boosts go a long way for RP elements.

cjthibs

Raynefr wrote: »

i definitely agree. Instead of the Werewolf transformation costing ultimate, it should Drain it, that way people can put in builds that maximize ultimate management, but also so accidental transformations dont waste a full Ult bar, and their can be strategy such as transforming, killing stuff, reverting and dropping another ult.

also dear god, ive been asking for this since Skyrim, but better human passives. something like wolves dont attack unless provoked (yellow aura) or stamina boost at night, as long as werewolf transformation is slotted. it doesnt have to be a big deal. just something that says, "hey..your are a werewolf no matter what form you take." i dont think it should be anything close to vampire passives, but tiny things like non aggressive wolves, or night time boosts go a long way for RP elements.

I would love all of these things...but damnit I'd be satisfied just with a toggle.

This is absolutely imperative.

When the WW timer was extended around 1.5/1.6(Whenever that was) you'd see a bunch of Weres in Cyrodiil.
But now...I go weeks without seeing a single one.

The new skills are amazing. BUT, this isn't a quick-damage skill, it's a transformation. 30 seconds is not long enough.

AND...think of the Roleplayers, how is someone supposed to roleplay as a Werewolf? It takes 30 seconds for most people to type one emote.

(Oh wait...hold on, I'll be back in 10, let me go recharge my ultimate!) ...every...frickin'...thirty...seconds...

Raynefr

cjthibs wrote: »

Raynefr wrote: »

i definitely agree. Instead of the Werewolf transformation costing ultimate, it should Drain it, that way people can put in builds that maximize ultimate management, but also so accidental transformations dont waste a full Ult bar, and their can be strategy such as transforming, killing stuff, reverting and dropping another ult.

also dear god, ive been asking for this since Skyrim, but better human passives. something like wolves dont attack unless provoked (yellow aura) or stamina boost at night, as long as werewolf transformation is slotted. it doesnt have to be a big deal. just something that says, "hey..your are a werewolf no matter what form you take." i dont think it should be anything close to vampire passives, but tiny things like non aggressive wolves, or night time boosts go a long way for RP elements.

I would love all of these things...but damnit I'd be satisfied just with a toggle.

This is absolutely imperative.

When the WW timer was extended around 1.5/1.6(Whenever that was) you'd see a bunch of Weres in Cyrodiil.
But now...I go weeks without seeing a single one.

The new skills are amazing. BUT, this isn't a quick-damage skill, it's a transformation. 30 seconds is not long enough.

AND...think of the Roleplayers, how is someone supposed to roleplay as a Werewolf? It takes 30 seconds for most people to type one emote.

(Oh wait...hold on, I'll be back in 10, let me go recharge my ultimate!) ...every...frickin'...thirty...seconds...

really hope we can signal boost this to the Devs. i know they're doing a lot, especially with this being a fresh launch, and whatever patches are coming have already been started, but yeah i really think making WW a toggle or Ult Drain would make it much more effective, and really light passives, or night time passes would be amazing. especially in human form. since you cant really enjoy being a WW in here like in skyrim, a human passive like "at this level wild wolves wont attack you first, and at this level, nearby wolves will ally with you for ex amount of time once every however long" would make you really FEEL like a wolf. enough to make the RP elements way stronger.

please Devs. Think of the children!!

DRXHarbinger

Tbh the Werewolf in Skyrim was bang on, the Skill slots need changing as it's bit of a menace but I was just happy being able to run around and maul whatever I wanted, Skill are a bit pointless for it 99% of the time.

So my suggestion, delete the ESO Werewolf and put into it the Skyrim one and it should work perfectly fine for everyone.

cjthibs

I don't think the skills should change as they are necessary when playing a WW in ESO.

Not to mention fun.

But the timer...holy crap that timer is annoying.
In PvE, no worries, I can maintain WW for a long time. But this will not cut it for Cyrodiil.


@ZOS_GinaBruno
Are there any plans/possibilities of something being done about this?
Please, please, please, make this a toggle like Overload...

This is a balance issue now. The entire skill line is utterly unviable in PvP because of the timer mechanic.
We cannot and will not ever be in combat every moment, and utterly wasting your ultimate each and every time because you cannot devour is unacceptable. (I cannot count on players to eat, and you've removed all of the critters.)

Vampires have always been viable...Werewolves...nope, still not viable in PvP.
(Sure the passives are great...but that's not why I chose to become a Were.)

Iduyenn

I dont know... I feel kinda ***, because i am begging since release, that they do something with the WW...

But we are low low priority... first was console release, now next content patch and tweaks... no WW.

I would love to make my WW better, find new armor and better setups with champion-points and passives (trough slotted skills).
I would even be ok with it, if you have to find some other wolves, because you will be more efficiant this way.

Toggle is a big wish, but i could also live with timer-stacking up to several minutes.

My goal is still to be viable for Daily Dungeons and Trials. Even if they make it insanely hard to compeed with burst-setups like jabs-spammer and dk-bombs. At least i would love to have a certain potential. (Aka: With breaking my fingers doing 12k dps.... it should be double that... as do the dk`s etc in similar situations with half the effort...).

I still hope, one day, they will increase the combined power of a pack of wolves.

One Thing wich could be interesting too: Alter the healing howl- to an aoe-heal for other wolves.

PaladinOfHere

The timer is a big problem...I mean in PvE it's nice, I've run Darkshade Cavern entirely in my Were form because I can eat so much, but honestly it takes so long to gain the Ult needed, just to usually poof back too soon.

WW are almost useless in boss fights because the timer runs out long before the boss does.

Iduyenn

I played the last 2 days entirely as a Wolf.

You need a specific group, wich is ok with your palystile and the fact, that you don`t do max dmg. (I.E a Templar with his stamina-regg support).

I have some major issues:

- We don`t have a finisher, and that is one big reason, we lack dps in the end. Singletarget i can go over 20k dps, but only for a very short time. I dont want to call it burst, because even for that it is to short...
- Theoretically you want to uphold your bleed/poison (light attack and claw aoe), but the time you need is to long, you cant realy combine anything without dropping to the bottom.
- Ravanger: You want to activate it, but you need luck and there arent any alternatives...
- Sustain; I have 41k Stamina, 300 CP and with ravanger 4k+ weapondamage, but you just cant do more output.
- Ultimate: The lack of a special attack, leads to significant lower dps.
- WW timer: It is, as it is. You need to do heavy attacks, jumps and you need to eat. This all leads to low overall dmg.

During my playtime (mostly grinding and some dungeons) I had some ideas:

1. Why not allow weaponswap in WW shape?
If you are on your second bar, you dont loose any WW timer... its like a travelling shape. (Perhaps a speedbuff, a sneaking skill etc...). But this would allow us to go from A to B without problems.

2. An other mechanic i would like to propose: If you dont want to give us a toggle, at least allow us to have a certain mechanic: The longer, we manage to stay in WW form, the slower goes our timer. The longer you are the beast, the easyer it is to be the beast... so to speak...

3. The lack of ultimate, special attack and finisher has to end. Give us something...
For example; You could implement "pack-abbilities". If you have more than one WW you could activate some "pack synergies" or have special powers. You could even implement a malus system, if you have a vampire on board.

There are endless possibilities.

Zenimax has to aknowledge the fact, that there are many guilds and players wanting to play the game as a werewolf.
Even if Zenimax think of the Werewolf like an ultimate... it is not possible, because over all, it is too weak.

cjthibs

I kind of agree here...WW is underwhelming in some cases...but all-in-all, I think its meant to be a different way to play rather than a way to be way more powerful.

I'd be just fine with it being comparable, or slightly more powerful than human form, but somewhat sustainable.
As I said before, in PvE it's passable. I can sustain it, do decent DPS, etc.

In PvP, completely and utterly useless. If an a skill line has no purpose in an aspect of the game as big as PvP, this is now a balance issue, in my opinion of course.

@ZOS_GinaBruno Can we please get some feedback on our discussion here?

Chrlynsch

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Is there any updates on the werewolf in the works?

GrimlockSaves

I'm behind on my reading

Addressing our beloved werewolves and vampires, consider another future world event enhancement:

During the in-game night time (or maybe in-game full moons) players participating in the event could toggle the werewolf on permanently. Despite the benefits, there will be the detriments of being attached by NPCS, and more importantly, having werewolf hunters (other players) tracking them down.

From there, throw vampires into the mix and behold - a great recipe for some intense 3-way open world pvpvp. These event will include quests and challenges for each temporary faction with rewards and achievements.

One key thing I just mentioned is "temporary factions". Such an event will pit friends against friends, guilds against guilds and families against families (in a fun way of course)!

The other positive: temporary factions means more community interactions, players making new friends, and all-around social opportunities.

All-in-all, food for thought. I have a million other thoughts and details around this idea but I won't take up more space here.

I'll post this in another thread in case this one isn't being monitored anymore.

Vorpal_Spork

Any chance of a female werewolf model?

Sha_dow

I get why Mods/Devs dont reply to Every post and even every week but this has been over 2 months and no one has replied to our threads which is utterly dissapointing,

I was on my old Wildstar account the other day there and got all my 3 questions answred within 4 days

thats more than Ive had from Devs here in 6 months!!!!!!!!!

needless to say @ all mods and devs this isnt really acceptable

Yes i understand you cannot reply all the time but this thread has been awaiting the " discussion" part of this thread for months, clearly the word discussion is very much lost on you

truely dissapointing.................................

Enesse

Vorpal_Spork wrote: »

Any chance of a female werewolf model?

Yes, this please. As interesting as being a hulking brute of a gorilla-wolf with a 6 pack is, I'd prefer a sleeker body like my own.

Iduyenn

There are still problems beside the ones i already mentioned earlyer;

Sometimes, when charging to an enemy, you get stuck in the animation. Sometimes it helps to press ESC or consume a potion. But sometimes you will loose your WW form, because you can`t devour or do anything.

Devour: Some Mobs simply despawn to fast. You cant realy time to eat (For example, if you want to wait behind and charge your timer, before following your friends... ).

Plz. delete "Call of the Pack". It`s completely useless... if you are a pack... all ppl are already in their beastform. At least bring back the old "Call of the Pack", where every WW increases your over all time im WW, simply by beeing in your area.

You have nerfed "Savage Strengh" a while ago. I think you could increase the buff a bit, because over all dps is to low (compared with other high end builds... tha scaling destroys everything, because of steep regression). (---> And if you still want to argue, that WW is an ultimate... make it at least worth it from the over all (dmg) perspective...).

Even if you have to decide... either WW is a useful beast... or at least it make it a fun one... (with out causing ptsd)

I am still grinding as a Werewolf (v14) and its very efficient... but even then, there are massive problems to maintain the beastform.

Animation/Animation cancelling. I think, the ww could be very efficient even in it`s current state... if you would allow (better) animation- cancelling.
The problem is single target dps: Even if you spam "Howl of Dispair", you have not enough power (and ofc. no sustain).
One option would be to increase this abbilities` power with decreasing health of the target (like a finisher).

If i take light or heavy attacks in to my single target rotation, the dps dropps significantly.

Rousing Roar; A cool spell, but 4 secs are way to short. The animation is to long and it`s useless in a rotation. (But very usefull, if you want to disband a stacking group of mobs/player.

Another Option could be to change Hircine`s Rage; Plz make this stacking with potions.

Packleader vs. Berserker: (btw i support female models or the possibility to customize...).

Packleader, when you think about it`s a nice idea to force ppl to do heavy attacks: But the dmg would be to low, because of the animations (wich imho are not possible to cancel).
Could one option be, that you increase the ww-timer for all your wolve-buddies by 5 mins? Or even better... as long, as you have a packleader, all wolves in your area can stay in their ww form (like a mobile shrine of hircine).

Berserker: The Berserker does more dmg, but to maintain the ww form he has to feed even more. This leads to more stress and less over all dmg. (Even with a white wolve as partner).

The Werewolf has such good potential. I am ok with it, if you allow ww to be strong only, if they are a pack. Noone wants us to be owerpowered, because it would mean for us to be nerfed from time to time.

We all would appriciate, if zos participates in this thread. Since you altered the forumguidelines, i was expecting more developer discussion. Especially on this subject. A simple "no" would at least clarify things...

Belthor_Moonblood

I'm on Xbox One and I have no problems with the werewolf ultimate except for one. I have the pack leader morph and for the last four or five days whenever I use the ultimate things work fine until the timer runs out or I choose to turn back into human form. It simply won't let me turn back; I get a constant "target is immune" message on the screen (I have literally used it and sat in one place for five minutes and I don't turn human again). While this is happening devour doesn't do anything and none of my abilities actually work, and the only way to fix this is to log out and back in maybe one of you PC players can help because ESO support hasn't said much besides that they are sorry.

Gintoki_Sakata

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

I love it. Thanks for the update team, this really is sparking up my interest to play again. But with that said, I think there's still a few major things that need to be touched upon.

Here are my thoughts(via wall o text)

Firstly, the transform animation is a death sentence in PvP, and even in some PvE situations, unless of course you transform before combat and waste some time on your duration and that sweet sweet aoe fear which wont be in range to hit anything.

The transform animation acts like a 2+ second stun as it is, and is one of the biggest problems with the ability. If you try to use an action during that animation, you lose all ultimate but dont gain ww form, what's worse, sometimes you'll bug out and have limited movement speed until you relog.

My suggestion, make the ww truly not able to move/attack/use abilities during this time, but make the ww invulnerable to damage and cc during this time. There will be plenty of time for the enemy to do that after you've transformed. Or you could just make the animation instant ( x < .5seconds )

The second major issue that needs to be addressed is not being able to keep the ultimate you gain while in ww form after the form expires. This would go a long way to alleviate the high cost to low benefit issue, and it would be a more pleasing alternative to the player base, as no one wants to see their ultimate disappear after building up a bunch incidentally.

Lastly, on a personal note, you can't sneak while in ww form. This really disturbs me, since as a stamina based player sneaking is the only thing I'm competent at in PvP. I'd like to be able to slip out from stealth alone, kill a player in ww form, then be able to still slip back into stealth after the player is dead and others are approaching like I would normally.

Because of this drawback, ww needs more staying power (durability/damage which is indeed being addressed in this thread), or the ability to crouch and stealth.

Thanks for reading!

Keep dreaming as long as we are stuck having a time limit for werewolf your just gonna end up being ganked the *** out of long before you get anywhere near anyone thus making WW the premature ejaculator of the ESO world all build up and no substance just face it they are always gonna bend us over just like every other scrolls game has. Take skyrim as an example vamp gets a toggleable transformation, skills that had no lvl cap for monsters that they could work on except raise dead and that is supplanted by the normal raise dead spell that could be made to effect all lvls barring certian things of course (dragons and such) and got all the benifits of armor.
WW on the other hand got a short ass transformation no benifit from armor nor an increase to armor and your fear only worked on the waekest of the weak low lvl enimies anything above lvl 15 it had no effect on just a little food for thought not that the devs seem to think in the first place so everyone else dig in.

cjthibs

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , please, please...us Werewolf enthusiasts are dying out here.

This discussion has been more or less active ever since the WW changes were announced, months ago, and there has been almost no Dev interaction.

We're tired of being the redheaded stepchildren while Vampires get all the love.
Not only are the Vampires more viable, they're either featured or an option in almost all of the big builds out there while the -only- benefit anybody uses from Werewolf is the stamina regen. (This is mostly from a PvP perspective, but my understanding is that it's not much better on the PvE side.)

Vampire has been buffed/nerfed/adjusted more times than I can count since release and WW has gotten one update...

We're not asking to be OP, we just want Werewolf to be viable.

Can you please give us any insight to what the developers think about the current state of Werewolves?

Just to sum up my thoughts, again...

Werewolf is not viable in PvP - The timer mechanic means more often than not a transformation is wasted because there is nothing to use devour on. (Players will almost always respawn to avoid being devoured, and there are no animals to use for this.) (Vampires, of course can use their skills at any time, including passives.)

Werewolf is not viable in RP - You cannot maintain the form. (Vampires look like Vampires...we get 30 seconds...)

Werewolf is a liability to groups in PvE - The timer mechanic forces us to rush from one group of enemies to the next, pushing our party faster than they should go often times, and not allowing for proper regen or pauses when they are needed. Also, we must stop, often mid-fight to become sitting ducks so we don't lose our transformation. This isn't particularly helpful to the group and the loss in DPS isn't either.

Each one of these problems could be solved by changing Werewolf Transformation to a toggleable Ultimate similar to Overload. Keep the vulnerabilities. Keep the skills. Change nothing but the timer mechanic, but please, make this skill line useful. We're so close, we only need this one more thing.

Please let us actually play as Werewolves, instead of constantly focusing on "feeding the meter." (Yes, that's what it feels like.)

UkMonge

I want to buy an armoured werewolf skin in crown store!!! Make it happen!!!

Raynefr

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBrunoGinaBruno please please consider the werewolf timer thing. If we changed the timer to require Ult instead of feeding based(and just leave feeding to A. Boost health or B. Add health and a few seconds as well) we could see more people enjoying ww form. . from a RolePlay POV, you hardly feel like a ww. Wolves still attack, stamina regen isn't enough to make you seem more than human, night time doesn't make you stronger etc. From a pve its decent but you can't stop fighting otherwise its completely wasted. 30 seconds in a dungeon? PvP its practically suicide to even transform, making it a waste of an ultimate slot. Please look into a few human form passives and some kind of fix for the timer that literally every werewolf is voicing their complaints over. We aren't asking to be vampires, but we would like to feel like werewolves. At least if the we ult is slotted we should be getting some kind of stat buff..more than just +3 to stamina regen...

cjthibs

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert




Seriously, any feedback at all would be welcome at this point.

CP5

cjthibs wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , please, please...us Werewolf enthusiasts are dying out here.

This discussion has been more or less active ever since the WW changes were announced, months ago, and there has been almost no Dev interaction.

We're tired of being the redheaded stepchildren while Vampires get all the love.
Not only are the Vampires more viable, they're either featured or an option in almost all of the big builds out there while the -only- benefit anybody uses from Werewolf is the stamina regen. (This is mostly from a PvP perspective, but my understanding is that it's not much better on the PvE side.)

Vampire has been buffed/nerfed/adjusted more times than I can count since release and WW has gotten one update...

We're not asking to be OP, we just want Werewolf to be viable.

Can you please give us any insight to what the developers think about the current state of Werewolves?

Just to sum up my thoughts, again...

Werewolf is not viable in PvP - The timer mechanic means more often than not a transformation is wasted because there is nothing to use devour on. (Players will almost always respawn to avoid being devoured, and there are no animals to use for this.) (Vampires, of course can use their skills at any time, including passives.)

Werewolf is not viable in RP - You cannot maintain the form. (Vampires look like Vampires...we get 30 seconds...)

Werewolf is a liability to groups in PvE - The timer mechanic forces us to rush from one group of enemies to the next, pushing our party faster than they should go often times, and not allowing for proper regen or pauses when they are needed. Also, we must stop, often mid-fight to become sitting ducks so we don't lose our transformation. This isn't particularly helpful to the group and the loss in DPS isn't either.

Each one of these problems could be solved by changing Werewolf Transformation to a toggleable Ultimate similar to Overload. Keep the vulnerabilities. Keep the skills. Change nothing but the timer mechanic, but please, make this skill line useful. We're so close, we only need this one more thing.

Please let us actually play as Werewolves, instead of constantly focusing on "feeding the meter." (Yes, that's what it feels like.)

This exactly, please @ZOS_GinaBruno, please let the combat team know that we are thankful for the 1.5 change from pure liability to something of value but there is still progress to be made, an reducing the weakness to poison isn't going to fix that.

Waylander

To address the lack of an executioner, could one of the skills get a molten armaments type morph, whereby your fully charged heavy attacks do execute damage when target is below 25% health?

FalN

As it is right now, werewolves are like puppies compared to Vampires. I like the idea for you to have passive abilities active wile in your race form. Werewolf lore says werewolves are supposed to possess super strength and wounds are supposed to heal quickly even in human(race) form(same as vampires but not as strong). All werewolf traits are said to be even stronger wile in werewolf form(stronger than vampires). They are also supposed to be able to since and track each other as well as other supernatural and none supernatural creatures. Vampires are supposed to be able to do the same(stronger than werewolf human form. Weaker then werewolf from). Vampires are stronger than werewolves when the werewolf is in human form. Some vampires are supposed to have a form as well(sprout wings and look similar to gargoyles. Varies depending on the lore.). Werewolves are supposed to be stronger than the vampire form when in werewolf form. In order of strength (for all traits) it should go: Werewolf race from(weakest), vampire race form, vampire ultimate form, Werewolf ultimate form(strongest). Sounds complicated but it evens out the playing field for vampire vs. werewolf. I guaranty if you guys implement what I said, there will be an even amount of werewolves and vampires.